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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Michael Bien <mb...@gmail.com> on 2024/11/29 23:19:44 UTC
[DISCUSS] Security Manager removal roadmap
Hello,
now that NB 24 is on its way, lets talk about the next release.
I think it would be good if NetBeans 25 would be able to run on JDK 24.
To achieve this we have to (finally) deal with the security manager
removal (JEP 486).
before discussing _how_ the concrete implementation should look, there
are two steps we can do right away:
1) remove SM flag from launcher and release new launcher bits
2) move flag to start config and switch to new launcher bits
https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/8009 (step 1)
This is essentially the precondition for the next steps otherwise we
can't even influence JVM flags while testing on JDK 24 (on windows at
least).
The third step is going to be the more interesting discussion given that
we have two proposals for it.
3) implement SM removal for JDK 24 compatibility
I am going to open a separate thread for 3).
best regards,
michael
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Re: bug in Netbeans - need help
Posted by Laszlo Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com>.
Well, it might not a bug in NetBeans, but the underlying X
infrastructure/JDK.
You might be better off with a remote desktop solution, like simple
windows like RDP, or NoMachine.
used NoMachine for having a Cloud based Desktop for a while, with great
success.
On 12/23/24 08:44, Brad Walker wrote:
> I've encountered a bug in Netbeans and need some help to figure this out.
>
> What I'm doing is running the dev. branch of netbeans on a Linux box but
> displaying the screen on a remote Windows PC running a XServer. I log into
> the Linux box using "ssh -X ..."..
>
> It actually works pretty well, overall. When I click on the "File->New
> File..." button, the popup shows properly.
>
> When I click on the "File->Open File..." button, the popup shows briefly
> (i.e. a few seconds). Then the pop-up disappears.
>
> I'm really at a loss of how to go about getting additional details to debug
> where this issue might reside.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> -brad w.
>
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Re: bug in Netbeans - need help
Posted by Peter Blemel <pb...@hotmail.com>.
Brad,
I have used 'ssh -X' between Cygwin's X server and a remote NetBeans with some success, but it's usually glitchy. I don't see problems often using a Linux X server, so I think that the problem is in the Windows X server.
To work around the glitches, I have either used an Ubuntu virtual machine to provide a Linux server/desktop, which works well with the ssh tunnel, or my go-to solution is to use VNC or RDP instead on the Netbeans side of the world and the corresponding windows client locally. That works very well for remote connections from home. TeamViewer works well too. In addition to the menus and windows behaving as expected on the remote desktop, those protocols optimize bandwidth based on the display, which greatly improves performance compared to sending X events through the ssh tunnel.
Peter
________________________________
From: Brad Walker <bw...@musings.com>
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2024 9:44 AM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org <de...@netbeans.apache.org>
Subject: bug in Netbeans - need help
I've encountered a bug in Netbeans and need some help to figure this out.
What I'm doing is running the dev. branch of netbeans on a Linux box but
displaying the screen on a remote Windows PC running a XServer. I log into
the Linux box using "ssh -X ..."..
It actually works pretty well, overall. When I click on the "File->New
File..." button, the popup shows properly.
When I click on the "File->Open File..." button, the popup shows briefly
(i.e. a few seconds). Then the pop-up disappears.
I'm really at a loss of how to go about getting additional details to debug
where this issue might reside.
Any suggestions?
-brad w.
Re: bug in Netbeans - need help
Posted by Michael Bien <mb...@gmail.com>.
Hi Brad,
I haven't done x11 screen sharing for a while but the protocol hooks
into the component system of X11 and isn't screen buffer based - so
window parenting differences can potentially be the cause for this.
The new-file action opens a NB wizard, the open-file action opens the
standard JDK file chooser (if I remember correctly) and open-project
would open the NB directory chooser. Three implementations essentially.
To exclude some factors would be good to test on the latest JDK 23
update release and switch to the old metal look and feel to see if it
makes a difference. Anything in the log?
best regards,
michael
On 23.12.24 17:44, Brad Walker wrote:
> I've encountered a bug in Netbeans and need some help to figure this out.
>
> What I'm doing is running the dev. branch of netbeans on a Linux box but
> displaying the screen on a remote Windows PC running a XServer. I log into
> the Linux box using "ssh -X ..."..
>
> It actually works pretty well, overall. When I click on the "File->New
> File..." button, the popup shows properly.
>
> When I click on the "File->Open File..." button, the popup shows briefly
> (i.e. a few seconds). Then the pop-up disappears.
>
> I'm really at a loss of how to go about getting additional details to debug
> where this issue might reside.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> -brad w.
>
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bug in Netbeans - need help
Posted by Brad Walker <bw...@musings.com>.
I've encountered a bug in Netbeans and need some help to figure this out.
What I'm doing is running the dev. branch of netbeans on a Linux box but
displaying the screen on a remote Windows PC running a XServer. I log into
the Linux box using "ssh -X ..."..
It actually works pretty well, overall. When I click on the "File->New
File..." button, the popup shows properly.
When I click on the "File->Open File..." button, the popup shows briefly
(i.e. a few seconds). Then the pop-up disappears.
I'm really at a loss of how to go about getting additional details to debug
where this issue might reside.
Any suggestions?
-brad w.
Re: [DISCUSS] Security Manager removal roadmap
Posted by Michael Bien <mb...@gmail.com>.
a suggestion came up on ASF slack to do another release without applying
the removal or agent PR, but to disable TopSecurityManager instead.
check description for more:
https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/8169
PR produces dev builds
regards,
michael
On 06.01.25 19:32, Michael Bien wrote:
>
> On 22.12.24 22:04, Matthias Bläsing wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Am Sonntag, dem 15.12.2024 um 20:34 +0100 schrieb Matthias Bläsing:
>>> I'm rebuilding my daily-driver with both #7928 and #8009 applied. Not
>>> sure how much work will really happen in the IDE the next week, but
>>> I'll try to see how it goes.
>> ok, my run last week worked ok. I saw some issue with the clipboard,
>> but they were in the same range as in other times. On linux I saw no
>> issues, but I use Copy'n'Pase more @work as the use-cases are
>> different, so not really comparable.
>
> i think SM tweaks were tried before to check if it helps with the
> copy/paste issues but it didn't. So even the same bugs are
> reproducible still :)
>
>
>>
>> All in, I saw now real show stoppers.
>
> sounds good and thanks for testing!
>
> I continued running NB 24 as work IDE with SM disabled and everything
> works fine still.
>
> to start somewhere, I will probably merge
> https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/8009 tomorrow.
>
> Once merged, a new native launcher could be released if we want to be
> able to launch NB on windows/JDK 24.
>
> (this is not needed for linux/mac since the flags were set via scripts
> which can be updated without extra steps)
>
> best regards,
>
> michael
>
>
>>
>> Greetings
>>
>> Matthias
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>>
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Security Manager removal roadmap
Posted by Michael Bien <mb...@gmail.com>.
On 22.12.24 22:04, Matthias Bläsing wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Am Sonntag, dem 15.12.2024 um 20:34 +0100 schrieb Matthias Bläsing:
>> I'm rebuilding my daily-driver with both #7928 and #8009 applied. Not
>> sure how much work will really happen in the IDE the next week, but
>> I'll try to see how it goes.
> ok, my run last week worked ok. I saw some issue with the clipboard,
> but they were in the same range as in other times. On linux I saw no
> issues, but I use Copy'n'Pase more @work as the use-cases are
> different, so not really comparable.
i think SM tweaks were tried before to check if it helps with the
copy/paste issues but it didn't. So even the same bugs are reproducible
still :)
>
> All in, I saw now real show stoppers.
sounds good and thanks for testing!
I continued running NB 24 as work IDE with SM disabled and everything
works fine still.
to start somewhere, I will probably merge
https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/8009 tomorrow.
Once merged, a new native launcher could be released if we want to be
able to launch NB on windows/JDK 24.
(this is not needed for linux/mac since the flags were set via scripts
which can be updated without extra steps)
best regards,
michael
>
> Greetings
>
> Matthias
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Security Manager removal roadmap
Posted by Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu.INVALID>.
Hi,
Am Sonntag, dem 15.12.2024 um 20:34 +0100 schrieb Matthias Bläsing:
> I'm rebuilding my daily-driver with both #7928 and #8009 applied. Not
> sure how much work will really happen in the IDE the next week, but
> I'll try to see how it goes.
ok, my run last week worked ok. I saw some issue with the clipboard,
but they were in the same range as in other times. On linux I saw no
issues, but I use Copy'n'Pase more @work as the use-cases are
different, so not really comparable.
All in, I saw now real show stoppers.
Greetings
Matthias
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Re: [DISCUSS] Security Manager removal roadmap
Posted by Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu.INVALID>.
Hi,
I'm rebuilding my daily-driver with both #7928 and #8009 applied. Not
sure how much work will really happen in the IDE the next week, but
I'll try to see how it goes.
Thank you for working on this. Given Javas current approach, I think we
should go ahead after some testing.
Greetings
Matthias
Am Sonntag, dem 15.12.2024 um 20:18 +0100 schrieb Michael Bien:
> On 15.12.24 19:33, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> > Great. What’s the danger or problems with not doing this,
>
> the windows launcher sets a hard coded JVM option for the security
> manager which will now cause a JVM startup failure on JDK 24.
>
> If the flag is not removed, NB 25 won't start on windows / JDK 24 - no
> matter which of the followup PRs is merged (new agent layer or SM
> removal proposal). (see other discussion thread).
>
> step 1) and 2) do only _move_ the flag from the binary windows launcher
> to the netbeans conf. The actual removal would happen in the PR which
> handles the actual JDK SM removal.
>
> > i.e., why not go
> > ahead with it?
>
> e.g if it isn't seen as important enough that NB 25 starts on windows /
> JDK 24 it could keep using the current launcher which should work a
> while longer.
>
> I am no windows user so I don't really have any stakes in it. It would
> be good to keep all target platforms in sync though so that there is
> less explaining to do in the readme / download pages etc.
>
> -mbien
>
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 at 19:28, Michael Bien <mb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi again,
> > >
> > > reminder that the windows launcher can't start on JDK 24ea still.
> > >
> > > I haven't really pursued it any further since there were no replies in
> > > this discussion (and also due to time constrains), but this might block
> > > other changes in the NB 25 release cycle.
> > >
> > > But I ran a quick smoke test today by combining #8009 + #7928 and could
> > > start and use NB on windows 10 using JDK 24ea build 28. (for testing
> > > purposes you can simply replace the launcher binaries in the netbeans
> > > devbuild zip)
> > >
> > > https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/8009#issuecomment-2543968171
> > >
> > > feature freeze for NB 25 is likely in about a month and there are
> > > holidays in between. Should we proceed with the launcher changes as
> > > described in the mail below?
> > >
> > > -mbien
> > >
> > >
> > > On 30.11.24 00:19, Michael Bien wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > now that NB 24 is on its way, lets talk about the next release.
> > > >
> > > > I think it would be good if NetBeans 25 would be able to run on JDK
> > > > 24. To achieve this we have to (finally) deal with the security
> > > > manager removal (JEP 486).
> > > >
> > > > before discussing _how_ the concrete implementation should look, there
> > > > are two steps we can do right away:
> > > >
> > > > 1) remove SM flag from launcher and release new launcher bits
> > > > 2) move flag to start config and switch to new launcher bits
> > > >
> > > > https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/8009 (step 1)
> > > >
> > > > This is essentially the precondition for the next steps otherwise we
> > > > can't even influence JVM flags while testing on JDK 24 (on windows at
> > > > least).
> > > >
> > > > The third step is going to be the more interesting discussion given
> > > > that we have two proposals for it.
> > > >
> > > > 3) implement SM removal for JDK 24 compatibility
> > > >
> > > > I am going to open a separate thread for 3).
> > > >
> > > > best regards,
> > > >
> > > > michael
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
> > >
> > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Security Manager removal roadmap
Posted by Michael Bien <mb...@gmail.com>.
On 15.12.24 19:33, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> Great. What’s the danger or problems with not doing this,
the windows launcher sets a hard coded JVM option for the security
manager which will now cause a JVM startup failure on JDK 24.
If the flag is not removed, NB 25 won't start on windows / JDK 24 - no
matter which of the followup PRs is merged (new agent layer or SM
removal proposal). (see other discussion thread).
step 1) and 2) do only _move_ the flag from the binary windows launcher
to the netbeans conf. The actual removal would happen in the PR which
handles the actual JDK SM removal.
> i.e., why not go
> ahead with it?
e.g if it isn't seen as important enough that NB 25 starts on windows /
JDK 24 it could keep using the current launcher which should work a
while longer.
I am no windows user so I don't really have any stakes in it. It would
be good to keep all target platforms in sync though so that there is
less explaining to do in the readme / download pages etc.
-mbien
>
> Gj
>
> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 at 19:28, Michael Bien <mb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi again,
>>
>> reminder that the windows launcher can't start on JDK 24ea still.
>>
>> I haven't really pursued it any further since there were no replies in
>> this discussion (and also due to time constrains), but this might block
>> other changes in the NB 25 release cycle.
>>
>> But I ran a quick smoke test today by combining #8009 + #7928 and could
>> start and use NB on windows 10 using JDK 24ea build 28. (for testing
>> purposes you can simply replace the launcher binaries in the netbeans
>> devbuild zip)
>>
>> https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/8009#issuecomment-2543968171
>>
>> feature freeze for NB 25 is likely in about a month and there are
>> holidays in between. Should we proceed with the launcher changes as
>> described in the mail below?
>>
>> -mbien
>>
>>
>> On 30.11.24 00:19, Michael Bien wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> now that NB 24 is on its way, lets talk about the next release.
>>>
>>> I think it would be good if NetBeans 25 would be able to run on JDK
>>> 24. To achieve this we have to (finally) deal with the security
>>> manager removal (JEP 486).
>>>
>>> before discussing _how_ the concrete implementation should look, there
>>> are two steps we can do right away:
>>>
>>> 1) remove SM flag from launcher and release new launcher bits
>>> 2) move flag to start config and switch to new launcher bits
>>>
>>> https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/8009 (step 1)
>>>
>>> This is essentially the precondition for the next steps otherwise we
>>> can't even influence JVM flags while testing on JDK 24 (on windows at
>>> least).
>>>
>>> The third step is going to be the more interesting discussion given
>>> that we have two proposals for it.
>>>
>>> 3) implement SM removal for JDK 24 compatibility
>>>
>>> I am going to open a separate thread for 3).
>>>
>>> best regards,
>>>
>>> michael
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>>
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Security Manager removal roadmap
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Great. What’s the danger or problems with not doing this, i.e., why not go
ahead with it?
Gj
On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 at 19:28, Michael Bien <mb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi again,
>
> reminder that the windows launcher can't start on JDK 24ea still.
>
> I haven't really pursued it any further since there were no replies in
> this discussion (and also due to time constrains), but this might block
> other changes in the NB 25 release cycle.
>
> But I ran a quick smoke test today by combining #8009 + #7928 and could
> start and use NB on windows 10 using JDK 24ea build 28. (for testing
> purposes you can simply replace the launcher binaries in the netbeans
> devbuild zip)
>
> https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/8009#issuecomment-2543968171
>
> feature freeze for NB 25 is likely in about a month and there are
> holidays in between. Should we proceed with the launcher changes as
> described in the mail below?
>
> -mbien
>
>
> On 30.11.24 00:19, Michael Bien wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > now that NB 24 is on its way, lets talk about the next release.
> >
> > I think it would be good if NetBeans 25 would be able to run on JDK
> > 24. To achieve this we have to (finally) deal with the security
> > manager removal (JEP 486).
> >
> > before discussing _how_ the concrete implementation should look, there
> > are two steps we can do right away:
> >
> > 1) remove SM flag from launcher and release new launcher bits
> > 2) move flag to start config and switch to new launcher bits
> >
> > https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/8009 (step 1)
> >
> > This is essentially the precondition for the next steps otherwise we
> > can't even influence JVM flags while testing on JDK 24 (on windows at
> > least).
> >
> > The third step is going to be the more interesting discussion given
> > that we have two proposals for it.
> >
> > 3) implement SM removal for JDK 24 compatibility
> >
> > I am going to open a separate thread for 3).
> >
> > best regards,
> >
> > michael
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Security Manager removal roadmap
Posted by Michael Bien <mb...@gmail.com>.
Hi again,
reminder that the windows launcher can't start on JDK 24ea still.
I haven't really pursued it any further since there were no replies in
this discussion (and also due to time constrains), but this might block
other changes in the NB 25 release cycle.
But I ran a quick smoke test today by combining #8009 + #7928 and could
start and use NB on windows 10 using JDK 24ea build 28. (for testing
purposes you can simply replace the launcher binaries in the netbeans
devbuild zip)
https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/8009#issuecomment-2543968171
feature freeze for NB 25 is likely in about a month and there are
holidays in between. Should we proceed with the launcher changes as
described in the mail below?
-mbien
On 30.11.24 00:19, Michael Bien wrote:
> Hello,
>
> now that NB 24 is on its way, lets talk about the next release.
>
> I think it would be good if NetBeans 25 would be able to run on JDK
> 24. To achieve this we have to (finally) deal with the security
> manager removal (JEP 486).
>
> before discussing _how_ the concrete implementation should look, there
> are two steps we can do right away:
>
> 1) remove SM flag from launcher and release new launcher bits
> 2) move flag to start config and switch to new launcher bits
>
> https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/8009 (step 1)
>
> This is essentially the precondition for the next steps otherwise we
> can't even influence JVM flags while testing on JDK 24 (on windows at
> least).
>
> The third step is going to be the more interesting discussion given
> that we have two proposals for it.
>
> 3) implement SM removal for JDK 24 compatibility
>
> I am going to open a separate thread for 3).
>
> best regards,
>
> michael
>
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