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Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com> on 2004/04/01 08:00:47 UTC
[STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
You may have seen that we're in the process of adding support for localized
messages to Subversion (i.e. Spanish, French, German). To help us achieve
this (and as I mentioned earlier today), it'd be useful to get a rough poll of
what languages we might be able to support. This way, we can have people
coordinate on the translation effort earlier rather than having duplicate
submissions yielding wasted effort.
So, if you are interested, please reply with what languages you might be
willing to help with. Note that having multiple people review one translation
is a *very* good thing; vote early and often for your favorite language.
Don't consider this to be binding - you can back out later with no hurt
feelings.
To recap, you don't need to know anything about C code; you just need to be
able to take a phrase in English and make a good effort at translation to
another language. We're still straightening out some of the technical
details, but it'll probably start to gather steam soon. See
subversion/po/es.po in the trunk for a sample translation in the gettext file
format (thanks to Nicolás). That translation list isn't complete, but it
gives an approximation of what would be involved for translators.
After this thread dies down, I'll tally up the results and stick it into our
repository so we can keep track of this.
Thanks in advance! -- justin
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Re: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Kunio Miyamoto <wa...@todo.gr.jp>.
Hi.
> You may have seen that we're in the process of adding support for localized
> messages to Subversion (i.e. Spanish, French, German). To help us achieve
> this (and as I mentioned earlier today), it'd be useful to get a rough poll of
> what languages we might be able to support. This way, we can have people
> coordinate on the translation effort earlier rather than having duplicate
> submissions yielding wasted effort.
>
> So, if you are interested, please reply with what languages you might be
> willing to help with. Note that having multiple people review one translation
> is a *very* good thing; vote early and often for your favorite language.
> Don't consider this to be binding - you can back out later with no hurt
> feelings.
I'm interested in supporting Japanese message for svn.
I wrote some articles about subversion in Japanese, and have been interested in
Subversion l10n and i18n since that work.
Thanks.
---
Kunio Miyamoto
E-mail: wakatono@todo.gr.jp
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Re: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Jani Averbach <ja...@jaa.iki.fi>.
On 2004-04-04 15:15+0300, Kalle Olavi Niemitalo wrote:
> Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com> writes:
>
> I believe I can translate to Finnish (fi_FI), but I don't want
> sole responsibility of maintaining the translation.
>
I could help with that, but at the moment I am suffering extreme
lack of free time... =/
Don't know what will be the situation after couples of months.
BR, Jani
--
Jani Averbach
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Re: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Kalle Olavi Niemitalo <ko...@iki.fi>.
Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com> writes:
> So, if you are interested, please reply with what languages you might
> be willing to help with.
I believe I can translate to Finnish (fi_FI), but I don't want
sole responsibility of maintaining the translation.
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Re: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@xbc.nu>.
sl_SI, and I can help with the en_GB translation. :-)
--
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Re: Fwd: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Vincent Lefevre <vi...@vinc17.org>.
On 2004-04-01 08:44:14 -0500, Francois Beausoleil wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:10:01 +0200 (MEST), "Erik Huelsmann"
> <e....@gmx.net> said:
> > So, if you are interested, please reply with what languages you
> > might be willing to help with. Note that having multiple people
> > review one
>
> fr-CA
fr_FR (I don't think this would be different, though).
--
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validated (X)HTML - Acorn Risc PC, Yellow Pig 17, Championnat International
des Jeux Mathématiques et Logiques, TETRHEX, etc.
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Re: Fwd: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Tom Vergote <to...@tomvergote.be>.
On Thu, 2004-04-01 at 21:03, Marcin Gil wrote:
> Marcin Kasperski wrote:
> >
> > pl-PL (Polish)
> >
> > I did not follow the whole thread but in case the translation
> > task is simple like 'take the file of English sentences and
> > write similar file of responding Polish' I can probably help
> > with translating...
> >
It should be, i don't know for svn, but for tortoise it's something like
double clicking an english string, translating it, click the save button
(which get's annoying it should autosave) and click ok.
You should even be able to import some default dictionaries to ease the
task and have some strings automatically translated.
> Same with me..
Re: Fwd: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Marcin Gil <mg...@vernet.pl>.
Marcin Kasperski wrote:
>
> pl-PL (Polish)
>
> I did not follow the whole thread but in case the translation
> task is simple like 'take the file of English sentences and
> write similar file of responding Polish' I can probably help
> with translating...
>
Same with me..
--
Marcin Gil
email# mgil : vernet pl | GaduGadu ID# 185057
JID# dentharg : histeria pl | http://marcin.gilusiowy.net
Re: Fwd: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Marcin Kasperski <Ma...@softax.com.pl>.
> > So, if you are interested, please reply with what languages
> > you might be willing to help with. Note that having
> > multiple people review one
pl-PL (Polish)
I did not follow the whole thread but in case the translation
task is simple like 'take the file of English sentences and
write similar file of responding Polish' I can probably help
with translating...
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Re: Fwd: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Marcin Kasperski <Ma...@softax.com.pl>.
> > So, if you are interested, please reply with what languages
> > you might be willing to help with. Note that having
> > multiple people review one
pl-PL (Polish)
I did not follow the whole thread but in case the translation
task is simple like 'take the file of English sentences and
write similar file of responding Polish' I can probably help
with translating...
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Re: Fwd: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Vincent Lefevre <vi...@vinc17.org>.
On 2004-04-01 08:44:14 -0500, Francois Beausoleil wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:10:01 +0200 (MEST), "Erik Huelsmann"
> <e....@gmx.net> said:
> > So, if you are interested, please reply with what languages you
> > might be willing to help with. Note that having multiple people
> > review one
>
> fr-CA
fr_FR (I don't think this would be different, though).
--
Vincent Lefèvre <vi...@vinc17.org> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/> - 100%
validated (X)HTML - Acorn Risc PC, Yellow Pig 17, Championnat International
des Jeux Mathématiques et Logiques, TETRHEX, etc.
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA
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Re: Fwd: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Francois Beausoleil <fb...@users.sourceforge.net>.
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:10:01 +0200 (MEST), "Erik Huelsmann"
<e....@gmx.net> said:
> So, if you are interested, please reply with what languages you might be
> willing to help with. Note that having multiple people review one
fr-CA
Bye !
François
Developer of Java Gui Builder
http://jgb.sourceforge.net/
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Re: Fwd: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Ulrich Eckhardt <ec...@satorlaser.com>.
Erik Huelsmann wrote:
> So, if you are interested, please reply with what languages you might be
> willing to help with.
deutsch (german)
cheers
Uli
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Re: Fwd: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by kv...@users.sourceforge.net.
>> So, if you are interested, please reply with what languages you might be
>> willing to help with. ...
da_DK
Regards
Morten
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Re: Fwd: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Francois Beausoleil <fb...@users.sourceforge.net>.
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:10:01 +0200 (MEST), "Erik Huelsmann"
<e....@gmx.net> said:
> So, if you are interested, please reply with what languages you might be
> willing to help with. Note that having multiple people review one
fr-CA
Bye !
François
Developer of Java Gui Builder
http://jgb.sourceforge.net/
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Fwd: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Erik Huelsmann <e....@gmx.net>.
The seems like a typical issue where our users can help out. Cross-posting
to users@.
bye,
Erik.
--- Forwarded Message ---
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 00:00:47 -0800
From: Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>
To: dev@subversion.tigris.org
Subject: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
You may have seen that we're in the process of adding support for localized
messages to Subversion (i.e. Spanish, French, German). To help us achieve
this (and as I mentioned earlier today), it'd be useful to get a rough poll
of
what languages we might be able to support. This way, we can have people
coordinate on the translation effort earlier rather than having duplicate
submissions yielding wasted effort.
So, if you are interested, please reply with what languages you might be
willing to help with. Note that having multiple people review one
translation
is a *very* good thing; vote early and often for your favorite language.
Don't consider this to be binding - you can back out later with no hurt
feelings.
To recap, you don't need to know anything about C code; you just need to be
able to take a phrase in English and make a good effort at translation to
another language. We're still straightening out some of the technical
details, but it'll probably start to gather steam soon. See
subversion/po/es.po in the trunk for a sample translation in the gettext
file
format (thanks to Nicolás). That translation list isn't complete, but it
gives an approximation of what would be involved for translators.
After this thread dies down, I'll tally up the results and stick it into our
repository so we can keep track of this.
Thanks in advance! -- justin
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--
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100% Virenerkennung nach Wildlist. Infos: http://www.gmx.net/virenschutz
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Re: Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Juanma Barranquero <jm...@wke.es>.
On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 00:00:47 -0800
Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com> wrote:
> So, if you are interested, please reply with what languages you might be
> willing to help with.
I'll help with Spanish.
Juanma
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Re: Plurals in translations was Re: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Nicolás Lichtmaier <ni...@reloco.com.ar>.
>>>In French, this would be incorrect as the condition is >= 1
>>>(i.e. 0 -> singular). There was a problem like that in another
>>>project (ROX) and the source (and English messages) had to be
>>>changed so that it could be translatable into French.
>>>
>>>
>>Gettext handles that. You define a rule which defines which of a set
>>of translations is used based on the number passed to ngettext.
>>
>>
>Yup. But we'll still have to modify the code in several places, if we
>actually are checking n!=1.
>
>
Yes, but this it's done at the same time the code is converted to
gettext. That conversion needs changing the code anyway:
printf("%d files%s updated", n, (n==1)?"":"s");
to
printf(ngettext("%d file updated", "%d files updated", n), n);
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Re: Plurals in translations was Re: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@xbc.nu>.
Nicolás Lichtmaier wrote:
>
>>> There are already many places where the code thecks if a number is
>>> !=1 and decides weather to use a plural form or not.
>>>
>>
>> In French, this would be incorrect as the condition is >= 1
>> (i.e. 0 -> singular). There was a problem like that in another
>> project (ROX) and the source (and English messages) had to be
>> changed so that it could be translatable into French.
>>
>>
>
> Gettext handles that. You define a rule which defines which of a set
> of translations is used based on the number passed to ngettext.
Yup. But we'll still have to modify the code in several places, if we
actually are checking n!=1.
--
Brane Čibej <br...@xbc.nu> http://www.xbc.nu/brane/
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Re: Plurals in translations was Re: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Nicolás Lichtmaier <ni...@reloco.com.ar>.
>>There are already many places where the code thecks if a number is !=1
>>and decides weather to use a plural form or not.
>>
>>
>In French, this would be incorrect as the condition is >= 1
>(i.e. 0 -> singular). There was a problem like that in another
>project (ROX) and the source (and English messages) had to be
>changed so that it could be translatable into French.
>
>
Gettext handles that. You define a rule which defines which of a set of
translations is used based on the number passed to ngettext.
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Re: Plurals in translations was Re: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Vincent Lefevre <vi...@vinc17.org>.
On 2004-04-01 16:21:09 -0300, Nicolás Lichtmaier wrote:
> There are already many places where the code thecks if a number is !=1
> and decides weather to use a plural form or not.
In French, this would be incorrect as the condition is >= 1
(i.e. 0 -> singular). There was a problem like that in another
project (ROX) and the source (and English messages) had to be
changed so that it could be translatable into French.
--
Vincent Lefèvre <vi...@vinc17.org> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/> - 100%
validated (X)HTML - Acorn Risc PC, Yellow Pig 17, Championnat International
des Jeux Mathématiques et Logiques, TETRHEX, etc.
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA
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Re: Plurals in translations was Re: [STRAW POLL] Help on
i18n translations?
Posted by Greg Hudson <gh...@MIT.EDU>.
On Thu, 2004-04-01 at 14:46, Nicolás Lichtmaier wrote:
> What some libraries do is to ship config.h under a new name (the current
> subversion name for this file would be perfect for that).
Any library that does so is severely broken. It's not even a little bit
okay to #include <svn_pools.h> and get things like HAVE_MEMORY_H
defined.
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Re: Plurals in translations was Re: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Nicolás Lichtmaier <ni...@reloco.com.ar>.
>>Besides, config.h might suply for missing features in the current
>>compiler (bool, const, inline, etc.) and those things should also be
>>defined when parsing the headers.
>>
>>
>
>Absolutely not. Our public headers cannot rely on stuff from config.h,
>because config.h is not installed. (If it were installed and used, it
>would stomp all over the calling application's namespace.)
>
>
What some libraries do is to ship config.h under a new name (the current
subversion name for this file would be perfect for that).
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Re: Plurals in translations was Re: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n
translations?
Posted by Greg Hudson <gh...@MIT.EDU>.
On Thu, 2004-04-01 at 14:21, Nicolás Lichtmaier wrote:
> System headers react to some macros by changing what is defined (e.g.
> _GNU_SOURCE), and some autoconf macros depend on this.
This would be a valid argument, but since we rely on APR for most
portability concerns, we're unlikely to use any such autoconf macros.
> Besides, config.h might suply for missing features in the current
> compiler (bool, const, inline, etc.) and those things should also be
> defined when parsing the headers.
Absolutely not. Our public headers cannot rely on stuff from config.h,
because config.h is not installed. (If it were installed and used, it
would stomp all over the calling application's namespace.)
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Re: Plurals in translations was Re: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Nicolás Lichtmaier <ni...@reloco.com.ar>.
>> The changes are harmless anyway. Have you read my comment about #include
>> <config.h> needing to be *before* the other includes?
>
>
> I disagree with the FSF on their rationale here. Our working
> procedure has been that header files should be self-contained. By
> adding in the <config.h> at the top, we would mask header files that
> really have a dependency on things defined in config.h.
System headers react to some macros by changing what is defined (e.g.
_GNU_SOURCE), and some autoconf macros depend on this. Besides, config.h
might suply for missing features in the current compiler (bool, const,
inline, etc.) and those things should also be defined when parsing the
headers. This is how autoconf is supposed to work and I don't see why
subversion should be different than all the other projects...
>> char *gettext(char *);
>>
>> There's a ngettext function, defined as:
>>
>> char *ngettext(char *msgid1, char *msgid2, int n);
>
> Normal gettext is:
>
> Newer versions of Solaris supports ngettext as well. However, older
> versions don't as they precede GNU gettext's introduction of ngettext
> (circa 2001, AFAICT). So, it's a question of how far back we should
> support.
>
> At this moment, I don't see a reason why we need to handle plurals.
> If we find out later that we really ought to do plurals, we can adjust
> our targets accordingly. *shrug*
There are already many places where the code thecks if a number is !=1
and decides weather to use a plural form or not.
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Re: Plurals in translations was Re: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n
translations?
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
--On Thursday, April 1, 2004 3:17 PM -0300 Nicolás Lichtmaier
<ni...@reloco.com.ar> wrote:
> The changes are harmless anyway. Have you read my comment about #include
> <config.h> needing to be *before* the other includes?
I disagree with the FSF on their rationale here. Our working procedure has
been that header files should be self-contained. By adding in the <config.h>
at the top, we would mask header files that really have a dependency on things
defined in config.h.
> Normal gettext is:
>
> char *gettext(char *);
>
> There's a ngettext function, defined as:
>
> char *ngettext(char *msgid1, char *msgid2, int n);
Newer versions of Solaris supports ngettext as well. However, older versions
don't as they precede GNU gettext's introduction of ngettext (circa 2001,
AFAICT). So, it's a question of how far back we should support.
At this moment, I don't see a reason why we need to handle plurals. If we
find out later that we really ought to do plurals, we can adjust our targets
accordingly. *shrug* -- justin
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Re: Plurals in translations was Re: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Nicolás Lichtmaier <ni...@reloco.com.ar>.
Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> --On Thursday, April 1, 2004 12:21 PM -0300 Nicolás Lichtmaier
> <ni...@reloco.com.ar> wrote:
>
>> I'm also adding _() everywhere.
>
>
> Cool. Once we know we haven't killed the build everywhere (probably
> straightened out by now), we can start checking in the _() changes as
> well.
The changes are harmless anyway. Have you read my comment about #include
<config.h> needing to be *before* the other includes?
>> BTW.. how do we handle plurals? GNU gettext
>> has a way, but it seems that we don't want to depend on that =).
>
>
> How does it do it? -- justin
Normal gettext is:
char *gettext(char *);
There's a ngettext function, defined as:
char *ngettext(char *msgid1, char *msgid2, int n);
where msgid1 is the English singular form, msgid2 the English plural
form and n is the quantity. E.g.:
sprintf(ngettext("%d file updated", "%d files updated", n), n);
xgettext will properly parse and handle this. It has extended the .po
format to do that.
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Plurals in translations was Re: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n
translations?
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
--On Thursday, April 1, 2004 12:21 PM -0300 Nicolás Lichtmaier
<ni...@reloco.com.ar> wrote:
> I'm also adding _() everywhere.
Cool. Once we know we haven't killed the build everywhere (probably
straightened out by now), we can start checking in the _() changes as well.
> BTW.. how do we handle plurals? GNU gettext
> has a way, but it seems that we don't want to depend on that =).
How does it do it? -- justin
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Re: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Nicolás Lichtmaier <ni...@reloco.com.ar>.
Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> You may have seen that we're in the process of adding support for
> localized messages to Subversion (i.e. Spanish, French, German). To
> help us achieve this (and as I mentioned earlier today), it'd be
> useful to get a rough poll of what languages we might be able to
> support. This way, we can have people coordinate on the translation
> effort earlier rather than having duplicate submissions yielding
> wasted effort.
>
> So, if you are interested, please reply with what languages you might
> be willing to help with. Note that having multiple people review one
> translation is a *very* good thing; vote early and often for your
> favorite language. Don't consider this to be binding - you can back
> out later with no hurt feelings.
Well... I plan on continuing updating the "es" translation.
I'm also adding _() everywhere. BTW.. how do we handle plurals? GNU
gettext has a way, but it seems that we don't want to depend on that =).
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Fwd: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Erik Huelsmann <e....@gmx.net>.
The seems like a typical issue where our users can help out. Cross-posting
to users@.
bye,
Erik.
--- Forwarded Message ---
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 00:00:47 -0800
From: Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>
To: dev@subversion.tigris.org
Subject: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
You may have seen that we're in the process of adding support for localized
messages to Subversion (i.e. Spanish, French, German). To help us achieve
this (and as I mentioned earlier today), it'd be useful to get a rough poll
of
what languages we might be able to support. This way, we can have people
coordinate on the translation effort earlier rather than having duplicate
submissions yielding wasted effort.
So, if you are interested, please reply with what languages you might be
willing to help with. Note that having multiple people review one
translation
is a *very* good thing; vote early and often for your favorite language.
Don't consider this to be binding - you can back out later with no hurt
feelings.
To recap, you don't need to know anything about C code; you just need to be
able to take a phrase in English and make a good effort at translation to
another language. We're still straightening out some of the technical
details, but it'll probably start to gather steam soon. See
subversion/po/es.po in the trunk for a sample translation in the gettext
file
format (thanks to Nicolás). That translation list isn't complete, but it
gives an approximation of what would be involved for translators.
After this thread dies down, I'll tally up the results and stick it into our
repository so we can keep track of this.
Thanks in advance! -- justin
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Re: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by Lele Gaifax <le...@nautilus.homeip.net>.
>>>>> "Justin" == Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com> writes:
Justin> So, if you are interested, please reply with what
Justin> languages you might be willing to help with.
Having done several time the matter, I think Italian will be one of
them. Count on me for it.
ciao, lele.
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nickname: Lele Gaifax | Quando vivrò di quello che ho pensato ieri
real: Emanuele Gaifas | comincerò ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
email: lele@seldati.it | -- Fortunato Depero, 1929.
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Re: [STRAW POLL] Help on i18n translations?
Posted by "Jostein Chr. Andersen" <jo...@josander.net>.
On Thursday 01 April 2004 10.00, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> You may have seen that we're in the process of adding support for
> localized messages to Subversion (i.e. Spanish, French, German). To
> help us achieve this (and as I mentioned earlier today), it'd be
> useful to get a rough poll of what languages we might be able to
> support. This way, we can have people coordinate on the translation
I'm in on Norwegian (bokmål):
"no_NO" (which is also known as "no" and "nb_NO")
Jostein
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