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Posted to zeta-dev@incubator.apache.org by Jerome Renard <je...@gmail.com> on 2011/11/01 06:41:05 UTC
Re: [zeta-dev] The Piwi Framework
Hi Christian,
On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Christian Grobmeier
<gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> we, the maintainers of the Piwi Framework are currently discussing if
> we move to the ASF.
> http://code.google.com/a/apache-extras.org/p/piwi/?redir=1
>
> As you know, I am for quite a while working in several projects of the
> ASF, including the incubator. For me it makes perfect sense to move
> therefore. In addition we have already dependencies to Zeta and would
> like to stick more to it. For example, Piwi has a few Dependency
> Injection classes we could move to Zeta.
>
> One of the problems we currently are facing is community. Piwi has
> only a small community, users know each one face to face. There are
> many strong frameworks out there, like the Zend MVC. This might be a
> problem Zeta Components is facing too.
>
The AZC community is quite small as well ;)
> With moving Piwi Framework to the ASF and making it a main consumer
> and contributor to Zeta Components both projects might benefit.
>
I agree.
> Anyway, to make this happen we need help. We are only two guys and
> therefore we are looking for other Apache Committers who are
> interested in stepping up as initial committers, mentors, champion.
>
I believe only PMCs can help you with your incubation process. Am I wrong ?
Have a nice day :)
--
Jérôme Renard
http://39web.fr | http://jrenard.info | http://twitter.com/jeromerenard
Re: [zeta-dev] The Piwi Framework
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Fabrice PICCINALI
<f....@fazae.com> wrote:
> And what about pear ?
> pear install zeta
> It is well-know, easy to use and you can have your custom depot.
I always have problems with pear and would have no problem if it would
go over Styx - so sooner, so better.
>
>
> On 04/11/2011 11:02, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Henri Bergius<he...@iki.fi>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Christian Grobmeier<gr...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> But it seems, there is less interest. Don't know whats wrong, but it
>>>> seems the PHP world is overloaded with frameworks. It seems, even a
>>>> high quality framework as Zeta does suffer from this fact.
>>>
>>> In general, PHP has too many frameworks, and too few reusable
>>> libraries. I think for AZC it would be better to position itself as a
>>> managed collection of high-quality libraries than to try and position
>>> as a framework. After all, Zeta components can already be used outside
>>> of Zeta-managed framework code (for example, both Midgard MVC and
>>> Symfony2 have integrations with the Workflows component).
>>
>> +1
>>
>> A similar project is commons.apache.org. It works very well.
>>
>>> Which brings me to another point I wanted to take up. How about
>>> packaging and distributing AZC through the new Composer system? That
>>> would make the Zeta components quite accessible and easy to depend on:
>>> http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/composer_solves_the_php_code-sharing_problem/
>>
>> Sounds very interesting. Will follow this project
>>
>> Cheers
>> Christian
>>
>>
>>>> Christian
>>>
>>> /Henri
>>>
>>> --
>>> Henri Bergius
>>> Motorcycle Adventures and Free Software
>>> http://bergie.iki.fi/
>>>
>>> Jabber: henri.bergius@gmail.com
>>> Microblogs: @bergie
>>>
>>
>
--
http://www.grobmeier.de
Re: [zeta-dev] The Piwi Framework
Posted by Henri Bergius <he...@iki.fi>.
On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Fabrice PICCINALI
<f....@fazae.com> wrote:
> And what about pear ?
>
> pear install zeta
>
> It is well-know, easy to use and you can have your custom depot.
PEAR is ok for end users, but quite a pain for developers. It also
assumes a global installation of packages, while Composer installs
everything into your project. Way easier when you have multiple
projects on a machine.
Composer also generates an autoloader for you.
--
Henri Bergius
Motorcycle Adventures and Free Software
http://bergie.iki.fi/
Jabber: henri.bergius@gmail.com
Microblogs: @bergie
Re: [zeta-dev] The Piwi Framework
Posted by Fabrice PICCINALI <f....@fazae.com>.
And what about pear ?
pear install zeta
It is well-know, easy to use and you can have your custom depot.
On 04/11/2011 11:02, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Henri Bergius<he...@iki.fi> wrote:
>> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Christian Grobmeier<gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> But it seems, there is less interest. Don't know whats wrong, but it
>>> seems the PHP world is overloaded with frameworks. It seems, even a
>>> high quality framework as Zeta does suffer from this fact.
>> In general, PHP has too many frameworks, and too few reusable
>> libraries. I think for AZC it would be better to position itself as a
>> managed collection of high-quality libraries than to try and position
>> as a framework. After all, Zeta components can already be used outside
>> of Zeta-managed framework code (for example, both Midgard MVC and
>> Symfony2 have integrations with the Workflows component).
> +1
>
> A similar project is commons.apache.org. It works very well.
>
>> Which brings me to another point I wanted to take up. How about
>> packaging and distributing AZC through the new Composer system? That
>> would make the Zeta components quite accessible and easy to depend on:
>> http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/composer_solves_the_php_code-sharing_problem/
> Sounds very interesting. Will follow this project
>
> Cheers
> Christian
>
>
>>> Christian
>> /Henri
>>
>> --
>> Henri Bergius
>> Motorcycle Adventures and Free Software
>> http://bergie.iki.fi/
>>
>> Jabber: henri.bergius@gmail.com
>> Microblogs: @bergie
>>
>
Re: [zeta-dev] The Piwi Framework
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Henri Bergius <he...@iki.fi> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> But it seems, there is less interest. Don't know whats wrong, but it
>> seems the PHP world is overloaded with frameworks. It seems, even a
>> high quality framework as Zeta does suffer from this fact.
>
> In general, PHP has too many frameworks, and too few reusable
> libraries. I think for AZC it would be better to position itself as a
> managed collection of high-quality libraries than to try and position
> as a framework. After all, Zeta components can already be used outside
> of Zeta-managed framework code (for example, both Midgard MVC and
> Symfony2 have integrations with the Workflows component).
+1
A similar project is commons.apache.org. It works very well.
> Which brings me to another point I wanted to take up. How about
> packaging and distributing AZC through the new Composer system? That
> would make the Zeta components quite accessible and easy to depend on:
> http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/composer_solves_the_php_code-sharing_problem/
Sounds very interesting. Will follow this project
Cheers
Christian
>
>> Christian
>
> /Henri
>
> --
> Henri Bergius
> Motorcycle Adventures and Free Software
> http://bergie.iki.fi/
>
> Jabber: henri.bergius@gmail.com
> Microblogs: @bergie
>
--
http://www.grobmeier.de
Re: [zeta-dev] The Piwi Framework
Posted by Henri Bergius <he...@iki.fi>.
On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> But it seems, there is less interest. Don't know whats wrong, but it
> seems the PHP world is overloaded with frameworks. It seems, even a
> high quality framework as Zeta does suffer from this fact.
In general, PHP has too many frameworks, and too few reusable
libraries. I think for AZC it would be better to position itself as a
managed collection of high-quality libraries than to try and position
as a framework. After all, Zeta components can already be used outside
of Zeta-managed framework code (for example, both Midgard MVC and
Symfony2 have integrations with the Workflows component).
Which brings me to another point I wanted to take up. How about
packaging and distributing AZC through the new Composer system? That
would make the Zeta components quite accessible and easy to depend on:
http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/composer_solves_the_php_code-sharing_problem/
> Christian
/Henri
--
Henri Bergius
Motorcycle Adventures and Free Software
http://bergie.iki.fi/
Jabber: henri.bergius@gmail.com
Microblogs: @bergie
Re: [zeta-dev] The Piwi Framework
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
>> One of the problems we currently are facing is community. Piwi has
>> only a small community, users know each one face to face. There are
>> many strong frameworks out there, like the Zend MVC. This might be a
>> problem Zeta Components is facing too.
>>
> The AZC community is quite small as well ;)
Yes, it is sad
>> With moving Piwi Framework to the ASF and making it a main consumer
>> and contributor to Zeta Components both projects might benefit.
>>
> I agree.
>
>> Anyway, to make this happen we need help. We are only two guys and
>> therefore we are looking for other Apache Committers who are
>> interested in stepping up as initial committers, mentors, champion.
>>
> I believe only PMCs can help you with your incubation process. Am I wrong ?
The incubation process it self needs
- Mentors: people on the incubator pmc
- Champion: an asf member or an ipmc member
- Initial Committers: everybody interested, including you!!!! :-)
I think, if there are a few interested people who want to commit and
move piwi to the zeta direction, there will be mentors. At least I can
mentor myself.
But it seems, there is less interest. Don't know whats wrong, but it
seems the PHP world is overloaded with frameworks. It seems, even a
high quality framework as Zeta does suffer from this fact. I mean,
this project is not very active at all.
Cheers and thanks for your response!
Christian
>
> Have a nice day :)
>
> --
> Jérôme Renard
> http://39web.fr | http://jrenard.info | http://twitter.com/jeromerenard
>
--
http://www.grobmeier.de