You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to user@struts.apache.org by Rafael Taboada <ka...@gmail.com> on 2005/05/02 17:27:38 UTC
ANOTHER IDE
Hi folks...
I'm using NetBeans as IDE. But i want to know if there is another
powerful IDE that supports working with struts...
Netbeans can do ant build for me. Is there another powerful IDE? or better??
thanks for ur cooperation
--
Rafael Taboada
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
Re: ANOTHER IDE
Posted by Folashade Adeyosoye <sh...@gmail.com>.
This might not be in the free realm, but give JBuilder 2005 a try...
On 5/2/05, Rafael Taboada <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi folks...
>
> I'm using NetBeans as IDE. But i want to know if there is another
> powerful IDE that supports working with struts...
>
> Netbeans can do ant build for me. Is there another powerful IDE? or better??
>
> thanks for ur cooperation
>
> --
>
> Rafael Taboada
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
RE: [OT: Swing slow?] Re: ANOTHER IDE
Posted by Folashade Adeyosoye <sh...@gmail.com>.
JBuilder 2005 has been good to me, a little slower that JBuilder 9, with JB
2005 thay have incorporated the eclipse feel
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Newton [mailto:newton@pingsite.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 5:06 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [OT: Swing slow?] Re: ANOTHER IDE
Rick Reumann wrote:
> Eclipse was ok as far as IDE features and price tag, but it just
> didn't 'feel' right to me. Using IDEA just feels right it, plus of
> course it does everything and more you'd expect from an IDE. By the
> way, who says Swing is slow? I don't think they use SWT for IDEA and
> yet it sure is a responsive app. Eclipse actually seemed much more
> sluggish to me on both windows and Linux.
A lot of Swing problems are due to Really Poor Swing coding--properly
coded, Swing is fine.
My experience was similar; IDEA seemed quicker than Eclipse; no doubt
one of those "get what you pay for" type things, although IDEA has been
around longer, so I'm not terribly surprised, despite Eclipse's use of SWT.
It also seems like the new soon-to-be-released version of IDEA will
allow even easier plugin development, probably (at least partially) a
reaction to the Eclipse plugin model. Might have to switch myself,
especially if I can convince (I have to fight for everything, despite
metrics etc. that prove I'm right) the powers to invest in some freakin'
developer tools... *sigh*
Dave
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
Re: [OT: Swing slow?] Re: ANOTHER IDE
Posted by Dave Newton <ne...@pingsite.com>.
Rick Reumann wrote:
> Eclipse was ok as far as IDE features and price tag, but it just
> didn't 'feel' right to me. Using IDEA just feels right it, plus of
> course it does everything and more you'd expect from an IDE. By the
> way, who says Swing is slow? I don't think they use SWT for IDEA and
> yet it sure is a responsive app. Eclipse actually seemed much more
> sluggish to me on both windows and Linux.
A lot of Swing problems are due to Really Poor Swing coding--properly
coded, Swing is fine.
My experience was similar; IDEA seemed quicker than Eclipse; no doubt
one of those "get what you pay for" type things, although IDEA has been
around longer, so I'm not terribly surprised, despite Eclipse's use of SWT.
It also seems like the new soon-to-be-released version of IDEA will
allow even easier plugin development, probably (at least partially) a
reaction to the Eclipse plugin model. Might have to switch myself,
especially if I can convince (I have to fight for everything, despite
metrics etc. that prove I'm right) the powers to invest in some freakin'
developer tools... *sigh*
Dave
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
Re: [OT] Re: ANOTHER IDE
Posted by Rick Reumann <st...@reumann.net>.
Frank W. Zammetti wrote the following on 5/4/2005 4:00 PM:
> they always seem to get in the way for me more than
> they help in the long run.
This is how I always felt as well until I used IDEA. It's the one IDE
that I've used where I didn't feel like I was using an IDE. Eclipse was
ok as far as IDE features and price tag, but it just didn't 'feel' right
to me. Using IDEA just feels right it, plus of course it does everything
and more you'd expect from an IDE. By the way, who says Swing is slow? I
don't think they use SWT for IDEA and yet it sure is a responsive app.
Eclipse actually seemed much more sluggish to me on both windows and Linux.
--
Rick
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
Re: [OT] Re: ANOTHER IDE
Posted by "Frank W. Zammetti" <fz...@omnytex.com>.
Agreed... I've played with virtually every IDE out there, any it's
always felt like while they have a couple of nicities (and sometimes a
VERY nice nicity!) they always seem to get in the way for me more than
they help in the long run. The only exception is a debugger, which
genuinely is helpful sometimes, although even that I manage just fine
without (but I have no doubt it is useful).
What I always tell my guys at work is that they can use whatever tools
they want, so long as (a) it allows them to work most efficiently and
(b) they can share work (i.e., no tools that force you into some
proprietary project structure). As long as you can run an ANT script to
build the project, I don't really care what IDE or other tools you use
to get there. I'm a minimalist, it works best for me, but it doesn't
for everyone (in fact, I'm in the minority and I know it!)
Frank
Dave Newton wrote:
> Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
>
>> Macros are an absolute must for me, and it's art of the reason I still
>> use nothing but UltraEdit... all the fancy code refactoring tools and
>> such that all the IDEs have I wind up doing in macros, and I have more
>> control over how they work, at least, it sure feels like I do.
>
>
> Well, you certainly have more control, but I don't think I'd want to
> write a macro that extracted code chunks into methods with
> automagically-correct parameter signatures, return types, etc. or
> pulling methods up or down, changing method signatures and propagating
> it through my code, etc.
>
> Having context-sensitive code completion/auto-complete is nice too,
> especially for verbose languages like Java etc.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
>
>
>
--
Frank W. Zammetti
Founder and Chief Software Architect
Omnytex Technologies
http://www.omnytex.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
[OT] Re: ANOTHER IDE
Posted by Dave Newton <ne...@pingsite.com>.
Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
> Macros are an absolute must for me, and it's art of the reason I still
> use nothing but UltraEdit... all the fancy code refactoring tools and
> such that all the IDEs have I wind up doing in macros, and I have more
> control over how they work, at least, it sure feels like I do.
Well, you certainly have more control, but I don't think I'd want to
write a macro that extracted code chunks into methods with
automagically-correct parameter signatures, return types, etc. or
pulling methods up or down, changing method signatures and propagating
it through my code, etc.
Having context-sensitive code completion/auto-complete is nice too,
especially for verbose languages like Java etc.
Dave
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
Re: ANOTHER IDE
Posted by "Frank W. Zammetti" <fz...@omnytex.com>.
Macros are an absolute must for me, and it's art of the reason I still
use nothing but UltraEdit... all the fancy code refactoring tools and
such that all the IDEs have I wind up doing in macros, and I have more
control over how they work, at least, it sure feels like I do.
I'm going to have another look at IDEA though... I've frankly never felt
like I needed anything an IDE gives me (except for integrated debugging
of webapps, that is one thing I would definitely like to have), but if I
find one that feels right I wouldn't have a problem switching.
P.S., the guys that do UltraEdit are coming out with a new product, IIRC
called UltraStudio... supposed to be a more full-featured IDE but with
UltraEdit at the core... if they include plug-in support, that could be
the ultimate for me.
Frank
Dave Newton wrote:
> Larry Meadors wrote:
>
>> It takes a while to really get into IDEA, once you do, everything else
>> feels like notepad or gedit. :-)
>>
>> XML editing? Got it, complete with tag and attribute completion.
>> JSP editing? Got it, and it is as good as or better than the netbeans
>> editor (that says alot).
>> Java editing? Almost orgasmic..it really does make your code better.
>> Refactoring? Ohhhh baby!
>>
>> The only things that I can think of that it *could* do better are SVN
>> support (but with tortoise svn, you do not really need that) and code
>> folding in non-java files (jEdit still rules in that area).
>>
>>
> Except for the crappy editor in Eclipse (a programmer's editor without
> macros?!?!?!) it seems to do a pretty good job with the addition of
> MyEclipse (~$30/yearly) although I've seen a few minor complaints and
> bugs. Has the same (or similar, perhaps slightly less functional?)
> features: XML editing and tag completion for XML and JSP, code
> completion inside JSP, Pretty Good refactoring support.
>
> There is an SVN plugin (as well as the usual suspects, although I recall
> one company having issues with the Perforce plugin, like CVS, Visual
> SourceSafe, etc.) that works just fine for me. Tortoise is a fine
> working solution, but I hate having to go out of my editor to do
> anything (Emacs! Whoohoo!)
>
> I have definitely found code completion and refactoring support to be
> _mandatory_ when developing Java code. I'd like to use IDEA but for some
> reason the folks that buy my software really don't care about me and
> want to give me the best tools possible.
>
> Humour/Sad story: Right now I'm using Eclipse for Java (usually, switch
> to Emacs for hard stuff) and am mostly satisfied. before I got here they
> were using Allaire Homesite.
>
> Don't ask, 'cuz I don't know. Of course, all the old apps use fake
> custom tags (parse a text file on every page hit, grep for things that
> look like custom tags, run special code to insert stuff into the text
> file, etc. Like real custom tags but suckier) and all the code
> (including helper classes/methods/etc.) are in included JSP files,
> making it essentially impossible to document, etc.
>
> See, if they had told me all THAT before I got here...
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
>
>
>
--
Frank W. Zammetti
Founder and Chief Software Architect
Omnytex Technologies
http://www.omnytex.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
Re: ANOTHER IDE
Posted by Rick Reumann <st...@reumann.net>.
Adam Hardy wrote the following on 5/7/2005 3:04 PM:
>
> Sometimes it will never stop and I am doomed to have these time-wasting
> issues with Eclipse plug-ins not working together, or just not
> installing, or Java 5 bugs or whatever. Progress I guess.
>
> I'd like to know whether these kinds of issues affect IDEA users. When
> was the last time you spent a whole morning trying to get tomcat to run
> inside Eclipse, or an hour a day for a week fighting to get Maven menus
> to appear?
That's why I like IDEA. Things just seem to work and I too had problems
with things working in Eclipse and it seemed buggy. That's what prompted
me to look at alternatives in the first place.
(Haven't tried the Maven plugin stuff for IDEA though so I can't claim
to know anything about how that behaves.)
--
Rick
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
Re: ANOTHER IDE
Posted by Dave Newton <ne...@pingsite.com>.
Adam Hardy wrote:
> On 04/05/05 18:25 Dave Newton wrote:
>
>> Except for the crappy editor in Eclipse (a programmer's editor
>> without macros?!?!?!) it seems to do a pretty good job with the
>> addition of MyEclipse (~$30/yearly) although I've seen a few minor
>> complaints and bugs. Has the same (or similar, perhaps slightly less
>> functional?) features: XML editing and tag completion for XML and
>> JSP, code completion inside JSP, Pretty Good refactoring support.
>
>
> I used to code with emacs, without code completion or debugging or
> whatever, and I managed fine - now I code in Eclipse and I have all
> the whizz bang plug-ins like maven and cvs and xmlspy and I've got the
> Problems List which highlights the code causing errors, plus I can
> refactor, BUT.... I waste so much time, hours and hours when it goes
> wrong.
I think/thought the XRefactor emacs package did code completion--no
debugging support that I'm aware of, but the refactoring/completion
stuff was satisfactory for me, and the price was low. Emacs is still king :)
> I'd like to know whether these kinds of issues affect IDEA users. When
> was the last time you spent a whole morning trying to get tomcat to
> run inside Eclipse, or an hour a day for a week fighting to get Maven
> menus to appear?
You must just be lucky--I haven't had any major Eclipse problems once
getting away from the 2.x series, although it is kinda draggy sometimes.
> PS what does myeclipse do?
JSP/XML editing/completiong, Struts, etc. support. Cheap and mostly works.
Dave
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
Re: ANOTHER IDE
Posted by Adam Hardy <ah...@cyberspaceroad.com>.
On 04/05/05 18:25 Dave Newton wrote:
> Except for the crappy editor in Eclipse (a programmer's editor without
> macros?!?!?!) it seems to do a pretty good job with the addition of
> MyEclipse (~$30/yearly) although I've seen a few minor complaints and
> bugs. Has the same (or similar, perhaps slightly less functional?)
> features: XML editing and tag completion for XML and JSP, code
> completion inside JSP, Pretty Good refactoring support.
I used to code with emacs, without code completion or debugging or
whatever, and I managed fine - now I code in Eclipse and I have all the
whizz bang plug-ins like maven and cvs and xmlspy and I've got the
Problems List which highlights the code causing errors, plus I can
refactor, BUT.... I waste so much time, hours and hours when it goes wrong.
Sometimes it will never stop and I am doomed to have these time-wasting
issues with Eclipse plug-ins not working together, or just not
installing, or Java 5 bugs or whatever. Progress I guess.
I'd like to know whether these kinds of issues affect IDEA users. When
was the last time you spent a whole morning trying to get tomcat to run
inside Eclipse, or an hour a day for a week fighting to get Maven menus
to appear?
This must be the bleeding edge, right?
Adam
PS what does myeclipse do?
--
struts 1.2 + tomcat 5.0.19 + java 1.5.0
Linux 2.4.20 Debian
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
Re: ANOTHER IDE
Posted by Dave Newton <ne...@pingsite.com>.
Larry Meadors wrote:
>It takes a while to really get into IDEA, once you do, everything else feels
>like notepad or gedit. :-)
>
>XML editing? Got it, complete with tag and attribute completion.
>JSP editing? Got it, and it is as good as or better than the netbeans editor
>(that says alot).
>Java editing? Almost orgasmic..it really does make your code better.
>Refactoring? Ohhhh baby!
>
>The only things that I can think of that it *could* do better are SVN
>support (but with tortoise svn, you do not really need that) and code
>folding in non-java files (jEdit still rules in that area).
>
>
Except for the crappy editor in Eclipse (a programmer's editor without
macros?!?!?!) it seems to do a pretty good job with the addition of
MyEclipse (~$30/yearly) although I've seen a few minor complaints and
bugs. Has the same (or similar, perhaps slightly less functional?)
features: XML editing and tag completion for XML and JSP, code
completion inside JSP, Pretty Good refactoring support.
There is an SVN plugin (as well as the usual suspects, although I recall
one company having issues with the Perforce plugin, like CVS, Visual
SourceSafe, etc.) that works just fine for me. Tortoise is a fine
working solution, but I hate having to go out of my editor to do
anything (Emacs! Whoohoo!)
I have definitely found code completion and refactoring support to be
_mandatory_ when developing Java code. I'd like to use IDEA but for some
reason the folks that buy my software really don't care about me and
want to give me the best tools possible.
Humour/Sad story: Right now I'm using Eclipse for Java (usually, switch
to Emacs for hard stuff) and am mostly satisfied. before I got here they
were using Allaire Homesite.
Don't ask, 'cuz I don't know. Of course, all the old apps use fake
custom tags (parse a text file on every page hit, grep for things that
look like custom tags, run special code to insert stuff into the text
file, etc. Like real custom tags but suckier) and all the code
(including helper classes/methods/etc.) are in included JSP files,
making it essentially impossible to document, etc.
See, if they had told me all THAT before I got here...
Dave
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
Re: ANOTHER IDE
Posted by Larry Meadors <la...@gmail.com>.
It takes a while to really get into IDEA, once you do, everything else feels
like notepad or gedit. :-)
XML editing? Got it, complete with tag and attribute completion.
JSP editing? Got it, and it is as good as or better than the netbeans editor
(that says alot).
Java editing? Almost orgasmic..it really does make your code better.
Refactoring? Ohhhh baby!
The only things that I can think of that it *could* do better are SVN
support (but with tortoise svn, you do not really need that) and code
folding in non-java files (jEdit still rules in that area).
Other than those, it is darn near perfect.
Larry
On 5/3/05, Frank W. Zammetti <fz...@omnytex.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, May 3, 2005 1:06 pm, Ted Husted said:
> > The JetBrains IDEA is so good, it's spooky.
> >
> > It's like pair-programming with Commander Data. :)
>
> If I had Data around I'd just let him do all the work and pick up the fat
> management check :)
>
> That's pretty much what Picard did all those years now that I think about
> it :)
>
> Seriously though, what features do you find to be exceptionally good? I
> took a peak some time ago and thought it looked OK, but apparently you
> found some especially interesting things...
>
> Frank
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
Re: ANOTHER IDE
Posted by "Frank W. Zammetti" <fz...@omnytex.com>.
On Tue, May 3, 2005 1:06 pm, Ted Husted said:
> The JetBrains IDEA is so good, it's spooky.
>
> It's like pair-programming with Commander Data. :)
If I had Data around I'd just let him do all the work and pick up the fat
management check :)
That's pretty much what Picard did all those years now that I think about
it :)
Seriously though, what features do you find to be exceptionally good? I
took a peak some time ago and thought it looked OK, but apparently you
found some especially interesting things...
Frank
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
Re: ANOTHER IDE
Posted by Ted Husted <te...@gmail.com>.
The JetBrains IDEA is so good, it's spooky.
It's like pair-programming with Commander Data. :)
-Ted.
On 5/2/05, Rafael Taboada <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi folks...
>
> I'm using NetBeans as IDE. But i want to know if there is another
> powerful IDE that supports working with struts...
>
> Netbeans can do ant build for me. Is there another powerful IDE? or better??
>
> thanks for ur cooperation
>
> --
>
> Rafael Taboada
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
--
HTH, Ted.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
Re: ANOTHER IDE
Posted by Lee Harrington <le...@gmail.com>.
I like Eclipse with MyEclipse. MyEclips is a $30 per year
subscription, but well worth it.
Lee
On 5/2/05, Rafael Taboada <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi folks...
>
> I'm using NetBeans as IDE. But i want to know if there is another
> powerful IDE that supports working with struts...
>
> Netbeans can do ant build for me. Is there another powerful IDE? or better??
>
> thanks for ur cooperation
>
> --
>
> Rafael Taboada
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org