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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org> on 2003/02/11 14:52:44 UTC
The Cocoon Build System...
well... sucks.
It's huge, slow, complex, patchy, disorganic, messy and reaching the
point of complexity where it's becoming unmaintenable.
This has to change or people will simply get sick of it and go away.
It takes 30 minutes on my ronzputer for 'build webapp' to finish. It
takes less to compile the linux kernel. With a try/fail cycle of 30
minutes, I would be more productive with punch cards!
We *must* do something about this.
First of all, blocks. We have refactored blocks that, if removed, will
make the sitemap fail. Example of this are FOP and Batik, if you
refactor things, you *HAVE* to make sure that you compile the thing
without the block and everything must work. DAH!
Moreover, we must build a clean cocoon with a clean sitemap *FIRST*,
then add stuff on it.
If the concept of WARS gets in our way, we'll blast it. no big deal, but
let's do something about it.
Moreover, the thing of keep on forking ant might solve memory issues,
but it's seriously brain dead: I have the "init" target called two
hundred times, then it checks if the library is present, complains two
hundred times, then I don't even include the block that depends on it,
yet is still executed.
Tell me, do all of you compile on a Cray?
Grrr
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate [William of Ockham]
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Re: The Cocoon Build System...
Posted by Bill Barnhill <gw...@yahoo.com>.
I've convinced my management to use Cocoon on the
project I'm currently on. I was using ant for my
builds but now use Maven exclusively.
See:
http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/features.html
I've been looking to get involved in Open Source
development and would like to propose the following:
-- Convert the build to use Maven
-- Split the sources into:
a) A cocoon core and associated Maven project
c) A Maven project for core samples
d) For each extra (non-core) sample:
1. A separate dir tree following a strict
standard
--- Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org> wrote:
> "Dirk-Willem van Gulik" <di...@webweaving.org>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> >
> >> "Stefano Mazzocchi" <st...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Moreover (unlike Pier who is the opposite), I
> tend to have the oldest
> >>> hardware around the house...
> >>
> >> Hey hey hey hey... Looks like _you_ don't benefit
> from all my babies...
> >> Darn, one spends millions and millions and
> millions of pounds to make
> >> friends happy and give them the fastest server to
> work on, and all you get
> >> back is being bratted on the mailing list....
> >>
> >> I _deserve_ some excuses now, otherwise your root
> accounts are flying!
> >> :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
> >
> > Invite the man over for a game of Pong or Donkey
> Kong Killer Gorilla
> >
> > http://www.backtothefuture.nl/donkey.htm
> > http://www.pong-story.com/intro.htm
> >
> > To be played on the _appropriate hardware_. That
> should do.
>
> I'd rather invite him for a nice "Cocoon Fight Club"
> event
>
>
http://gallery.betaversion.org/view_album.php?set_albumName=album06
>
> And beat the hell out of him (or rather, being
> beaten to death! :-)
>
> Pier
>
>
>
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__________________________________________________
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Re: The Cocoon Build System...
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
"Dirk-Willem van Gulik" <di...@webweaving.org> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>
>> "Stefano Mazzocchi" <st...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Moreover (unlike Pier who is the opposite), I tend to have the oldest
>>> hardware around the house...
>>
>> Hey hey hey hey... Looks like _you_ don't benefit from all my babies...
>> Darn, one spends millions and millions and millions of pounds to make
>> friends happy and give them the fastest server to work on, and all you get
>> back is being bratted on the mailing list....
>>
>> I _deserve_ some excuses now, otherwise your root accounts are flying!
>> :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
>
> Invite the man over for a game of Pong or Donkey Kong Killer Gorilla
>
> http://www.backtothefuture.nl/donkey.htm
> http://www.pong-story.com/intro.htm
>
> To be played on the _appropriate hardware_. That should do.
I'd rather invite him for a nice "Cocoon Fight Club" event
http://gallery.betaversion.org/view_album.php?set_albumName=album06
And beat the hell out of him (or rather, being beaten to death! :-)
Pier
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Re: The Cocoon Build System...
Posted by Dirk-Willem van Gulik <di...@webweaving.org>.
On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> "Stefano Mazzocchi" <st...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Moreover (unlike Pier who is the opposite), I tend to have the oldest
> > hardware around the house...
>
> Hey hey hey hey... Looks like _you_ don't benefit from all my babies...
> Darn, one spends millions and millions and millions of pounds to make
> friends happy and give them the fastest server to work on, and all you get
> back is being bratted on the mailing list....
>
> I _deserve_ some excuses now, otherwise your root accounts are flying!
> :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
Invite the man over for a game of Pong or Donkey Kong Killer Gorilla
http://www.backtothefuture.nl/donkey.htm
http://www.pong-story.com/intro.htm
To be played on the _appropriate hardware_. That should do.
Dw.
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Re: The Cocoon Build System...
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
"Stefano Mazzocchi" <st...@apache.org> wrote:
> Moreover (unlike Pier who is the opposite), I tend to have the oldest
> hardware around the house...
Hey hey hey hey... Looks like _you_ don't benefit from all my babies...
Darn, one spends millions and millions and millions of pounds to make
friends happy and give them the fastest server to work on, and all you get
back is being bratted on the mailing list....
I _deserve_ some excuses now, otherwise your root accounts are flying!
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
Pier
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Re: The Cocoon Build System...
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>
> Ugo Cei wrote, On 11/02/2003 15.00:
>
>> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>>
>>> Tell me, do all of you compile on a Cray?
>>
>>
>> No, but on my brand-new 2.4GHz P4 with 512MB and a 7200rpm HD, build
>> webapp-local took roughly three minutes and a half (under RedHat Linux
>> 8, Sun JDK 1.4.1_01).
>
>
> I use a 1Ghz PIII W2000 JDK 1.4.1_01 and the time is comparable, and it
> skips blocks that are already built, so it's faster in those cases.
ackowledged, but I have this ronzputer here (PII 366, 192Mb RAM, 6Gb of
disk) and that's what I get until my new titanium gets home (which will
take a while since they are upgrading the 15" line)
Moreover (unlike Pier who is the opposite), I tend to have the oldest
hardware around the house just to make sure that if things work on my
machines, work everywhere else (I remember optimizing jserv for speed on
a Pentium 133 running Win95, then having it tested on sun big iron and
the results were, impressively, comparable... guess why Sun is dying) anyway
> From CVS:
> BUILD SUCCESSFUL
> Total time: 6 minutes 53 seconds
>
> Where does it get stuck? How much memory do you have? How much, and at
> which point in the build, is the memory used?
the system is slow because it needs much more memory than I have on the
system and the virtual memory kicks in and slows things down.
This is not a problem that a cleaner build can fix, I know that, but for
sure it's not being designed with speed and simplicity in mind.
> BTW, to compile just cocoon core do a build compile-core.
>
> BUILD SUCCESSFUL
> Total time: 2 minutes 33 seconds
>
> Changed a class, recompiled:
> BUILD SUCCESSFUL
> Total time: 12 seconds
>
> You seem to have a clear view of how it should comple and what
> (conceptually).
> Could you please expand on that?
I think it's much easier/faster if I write it as I'm doing right now
(note: I'm checking all the new fancy ant 1.5 things like <selectors>).
I will commit my build.new.xml so that you people can compare which one
is best and choose your own.
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate [William of Ockham]
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Re: The Cocoon Build System...
Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agsoftware.dnsalias.com>.
Torsten Curdt dijo:
>>>> Tell me, do all of you compile on a Cray?
>
> I guess we don't really need to compare compilation times in order to
> realize that the current build system is a mess ;)
> IMHO we need a clear vision and then rewrite it from scratch...
> --
> Torsten
Yeah, but currently it is nice for benchmarking. ;-)
Antonio Gallardo.
>
>
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Re: The Cocoon Build System...
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@dff.st>.
>>> Tell me, do all of you compile on a Cray?
I guess we don't really need to compare compilation times in order
to realize that the current build system is a mess ;)
IMHO we need a clear vision and then rewrite it from scratch...
--
Torsten
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Re: The Cocoon Build System...
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Ugo Cei wrote, On 11/02/2003 15.00:
> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>
>> Tell me, do all of you compile on a Cray?
>
> No, but on my brand-new 2.4GHz P4 with 512MB and a 7200rpm HD, build
> webapp-local took roughly three minutes and a half (under RedHat Linux
> 8, Sun JDK 1.4.1_01).
I use a 1Ghz PIII W2000 JDK 1.4.1_01 and the time is comparable, and it
skips blocks that are already built, so it's faster in those cases.
From CVS:
BUILD SUCCESSFUL
Total time: 6 minutes 53 seconds
Where does it get stuck? How much memory do you have? How much, and at
which point in the build, is the memory used?
BTW, to compile just cocoon core do a build compile-core.
BUILD SUCCESSFUL
Total time: 2 minutes 33 seconds
Changed a class, recompiled:
BUILD SUCCESSFUL
Total time: 12 seconds
You seem to have a clear view of how it should comple and what
(conceptually).
Could you please expand on that?
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: The Cocoon Build System...
Posted by Ugo Cei <u....@cbim.it>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> Tell me, do all of you compile on a Cray?
No, but on my brand-new 2.4GHz P4 with 512MB and a 7200rpm HD, build
webapp-local took roughly three minutes and a half (under RedHat Linux
8, Sun JDK 1.4.1_01).
Not that I don't sympathize with you, on my previous machine (700MHz
Celeron with 256MB) it took 88 minutes!
And in any case, I fully agree with you. The current build process is so
complex that I don't even know where to start simplifying it ;-).
Ugo
--
Ugo Cei - http://www.beblogging.com/blog/
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Re: The Cocoon Build System...
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
"Stefano Mazzocchi" <st...@apache.org> wrote:
> Tell me, do all of you compile on a Cray?
Almost... I use a Sun E-250 with 2xUltraSparcIIi 450Mhz and 2 Gigs of ram (6
raided drives @ 10k RPM x 18 Gigs) and the baby says:
BUILD SUCCESSFUL
Total time: 11 minutes 53 seconds
Considering that the same machine can withstand a load of 1500 reqs/sec on
Apache 2, performances are discomforting! :-)
Pier
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