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Posted to dev@avalon.apache.org by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org> on 2003/04/15 18:48:05 UTC
Excalibur Phase III List
The remaining projects yet to be released in Excalibur are:
Compatibility (with the inclusion of Naming)
Extension
Fortress
Lifecycle
Loader
-N-a-m-i-n-g- (incorporated in Compatibility)
Policy
Store
ThreadContext
XFC
XMLUtil
Of those, the definites are Fortress, Lifecycle,
and Compatibility.
The question marks are just about everything else. What is release
quality, and needed?
Extension--JAR manifest utilities (Utility Code)
Loader--Metadata enhanced classloader utilities (Utility Code)
Policy--Metadata enhanced security management utilities (Utility Code)
Store--Cache implementation (Component)
ThreadContext--Thread specific context utilities (Utility Code)
XFC--Configuration/Metadata migration tools (Utility Code)
XMLUtil--Components for working with XML (Component)
I am +1 on the components, as they fit within our charter--as long as
those components are stable and ready for a release. I am also +1 on
the XFC package for ECM to Fortress migrations. That project does fit
within the boundaries of the Avalon project as a necessary utility.
I am -0.5 on all the other utility code because I have not (1) worked
with them, and I personally don't want to support them, and (2) they
are generic enough utilities to be placed outside of the Avalon project
and garner more support.
Your thoughts?
--
"You know the world is going crazy when the best
rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy,
The Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is
accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want
to go to war. And the 3 most powerful men in America
are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon' (sic)".
-----Chris Rock
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RE: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
Peter Royal wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 15, 2003, at 05:37 PM, Peter Donald wrote:
> >>> XMLUtil--Components for working with XML (Component)
> > ...
> > There was talk about moving this back to cocoon.
> > ...
> >
> > +1 to moving it to cocoon as the only maintainers for it are
> > cocooners. It
> > will give the other cocoon developers more opportunity to
>
> I'd like to keep XMLUtil here, there is use beyond Cocoon. It is a good
> start to a component repo.
Yes, definitly!
And for xmlutil, there are other committers than only cocoon developers.
I'm -1 on moving things back to Cocoon - because we are speaking here
about generally usable components and excalibur is a good place for
a component repository.
*if* (and only *if*) we decide to not host these general components in
excalibur anymore, we should find a better place than cocoon for them.
Carsten
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Peter Royal <pr...@apache.org>.
On Tuesday, April 15, 2003, at 05:37 PM, Peter Donald wrote:
>>> XMLUtil--Components for working with XML (Component)
> ...
> There was talk about moving this back to cocoon.
> ...
>
> +1 to moving it to cocoon as the only maintainers for it are
> cocooners. It
> will give the other cocoon developers more opportunity to
I'd like to keep XMLUtil here, there is use beyond Cocoon. It is a good
start to a component repo.
-pete
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 05:27, Leo Simons wrote:
> Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > Extension--JAR manifest utilities (Utility Code)
>
> I don't need it. According to GUMP phoenix needs it, but according to me
> it doesn't (TODO: verify).
it does. Just grabbed from spice-classman.
> > Loader--Metadata enhanced classloader utilities (Utility Code)
>
> I don't need it. According to GUMP phoenix needs it, but according to me
> it doesn't (TODO: verify). According to gump no other dependencies. -/+0
> as I don't feel like supporting it myself.
axed it.
> > Policy--Metadata enhanced security management utilities (Utility Code)
>
> Phoenix needs this and has distributed it for some time. As such, we
> might have phoenix users who need it. We can release and keep it as part
> of excalibur, or move it into phoenix, or move it elsewhere and release
> it there. Either is fine with me, but at least one of them.
move it out but need time to do that properly. During the move there will be a
fair number of code changes so it needs to be kept around in avalon-land for
at least a month or so.
> > Store--Cache implementation (Component)
> > XMLUtil--Components for working with XML (Component)
...
There was talk about moving this back to cocoon.
...
+1 to moving it to cocoon as the only maintainers for it are cocooners. It
will give the other cocoon developers more opportunity to
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
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| wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell |
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
Stephen McConnell wrote:
>> Berin Loritsch wrote:
>>> Extension--JAR manifest utilities (Utility Code)
>>
>> I don't need it. According to GUMP phoenix needs it, but according to
>> me it doesn't (TODO: verify).
lsimons@GIRAFFE ~/cvs/avalon-phoenix/src/java> find -name
DefaultClassLoaderManager.java -exec cat \{\} \; | grep extension
import org.apache.avalon.excalibur.extension.Extension;
* on such extensions.
final ExtensionManager extensionManager =
m_packageManager = new PackageManager( extensionManager );
final Extension[] extensions = new Extension[ 0 ];
new ClassLoaderMetaData( name, parent, entrys, extensions,
filesets );
I am wrong; gump is right.
> I suggest we keep this in excalibur.
maybe sandbox then? Doesn't look too well based on
http://avalon.apache.org/excalibur/extension ....
>>> ThreadContext--Thread specific context utilities (Utility Code)
>>
>> I don't need it. According to GUMP nothing needs it (no Steve,
>> according to GUMP, james doesn't need it and is building fine...could
>> you doublecheck?). Also note Peter removed it from cvs this weekend.
>
> Yep - I provided missleading info - it is cornerstone thread that uses
> it (at least it did a few days ago).
could you look again, and update the gump descriptor for cornerstone
accordingly if it actually does?
cheers!
- Leo
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Leo Simons wrote:
> +1 on
>
> lifecycle
> compatibility (including naming)
>
> A conditional +1 on
>
> fortress, except for the new metadata stuff which I haven't looked at in
> detail, so +0 on that bit until about after easter I hope. I
> am guessing I will have the option to wait with actually
> voting on this until that time :D
>
> Additionally, a +1 on
>
> policy
>
> though amendable to moving it elsewhere as well.
>
> For the rest, basically a -/+0 and or -.5 as I don't really feel like
> doing much support for this stuff (a +1 after all indicates
> willingness to support the package) and a lot of the content feels
> pretty stale. Additional package-by-package comments below.
>
> Berin Loritsch wrote:
>
>> Extension--JAR manifest utilities (Utility Code)
>
>
> I don't need it. According to GUMP phoenix needs it, but according to
> me it doesn't (TODO: verify). According to gump spice-classman needs
> it; I don't know what that is. According to gump no other
> dependencies. According to Steve Merlin needs this; we could roll it
> into merlin if phoenix doesn't use it (and won't be using it in the
> future). -/+0 as I don't feel like supporting it myself.
Phoenix uses the extension package in the DefaultClassLoaderManager
(which makes sence because the extension package is all about the
automated loading of extension jar files based on those manifest
declarations). Merlin uses the package inside its classloader in much
the same way.
I suggest we keep this in excalibur.
>
>> Loader--Metadata enhanced classloader utilities (Utility Code)
>
>
> I don't need it. According to GUMP phoenix needs it, but according to
> me it doesn't (TODO: verify). According to gump no other dependencies.
> -/+0 as I don't feel like supporting it myself.
According to me Phoenix is not using it.
Is anything using it?
>
>> Policy--Metadata enhanced security management utilities (Utility Code)
>
>
> Phoenix needs this and has distributed it for some time. As such, we
> might have phoenix users who need it. We can release and keep it as
> part of excalibur, or move it into phoenix, or move it elsewhere and
> release it there. Either is fine with me, but at least one of them.
I suggest we move policy under Phoenix.
>> Store--Cache implementation (Component)
>
>
> I don't need it. According to GUMP cocoon needs it. According to gump
> no other dependencies. There was talk about moving this back to
> cocoon. If so, now is the time to do this. -/+0 as I don't feel like
> supporting it myself.
>
>> ThreadContext--Thread specific context utilities (Utility Code)
>
>
> I don't need it. According to GUMP nothing needs it (no Steve,
> according to GUMP, james doesn't need it and is building fine...could
> you doublecheck?). Also note Peter removed it from cvs this weekend.
Yep - I provided missleading info - it is cornerstone thread that uses
it (at least it did a few days ago). The link to James is that
cornerstone-thread is used in James - but threadcontext isn't referenced
directly.
>> XFC--Configuration/Metadata migration tools (Utility Code)
>
>
> I don't need it and haven't looked at the code. It is not built by
> GUMP. It has no unit tests. It has not been worked on for 5 months.
> Marcus (the author) is currently occupied with other things. As such
> it fails my basic QA tests and IMHO it should not be released at this
> point. -0.5 (I won't be blocking a release but I am definately not
> committing to supporting it either).
Similar feeling here.
Cheers, Steve.
--
Stephen J. McConnell
mailto:mcconnell@apache.org
http://www.osm.net
Sent via James running under Merlin as an NT service.
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
+1 on
lifecycle
compatibility (including naming)
A conditional +1 on
fortress, except for the new metadata stuff which I haven't looked at in
detail, so +0 on that bit until about after easter I hope. I
am guessing I will have the option to wait with actually
voting on this until that time :D
Additionally, a +1 on
policy
though amendable to moving it elsewhere as well.
For the rest, basically a -/+0 and or -.5 as I don't really feel like
doing much support for this stuff (a +1 after all indicates willingness
to support the package) and a lot of the content feels pretty stale.
Additional package-by-package comments below.
Berin Loritsch wrote:
> Extension--JAR manifest utilities (Utility Code)
I don't need it. According to GUMP phoenix needs it, but according to me
it doesn't (TODO: verify). According to gump spice-classman needs it; I
don't know what that is. According to gump no other dependencies.
According to Steve Merlin needs this; we could roll it into merlin if
phoenix doesn't use it (and won't be using it in the future). -/+0 as I
don't feel like supporting it myself.
> Loader--Metadata enhanced classloader utilities (Utility Code)
I don't need it. According to GUMP phoenix needs it, but according to me
it doesn't (TODO: verify). According to gump no other dependencies. -/+0
as I don't feel like supporting it myself.
> Policy--Metadata enhanced security management utilities (Utility Code)
Phoenix needs this and has distributed it for some time. As such, we
might have phoenix users who need it. We can release and keep it as part
of excalibur, or move it into phoenix, or move it elsewhere and release
it there. Either is fine with me, but at least one of them.
> Store--Cache implementation (Component)
I don't need it. According to GUMP cocoon needs it. According to gump no
other dependencies. There was talk about moving this back to cocoon. If
so, now is the time to do this. -/+0 as I don't feel like supporting it
myself.
> ThreadContext--Thread specific context utilities (Utility Code)
I don't need it. According to GUMP nothing needs it (no Steve, according
to GUMP, james doesn't need it and is building fine...could you
doublecheck?). Also note Peter removed it from cvs this weekend.
> XFC--Configuration/Metadata migration tools (Utility Code)
I don't need it and haven't looked at the code. It is not built by GUMP.
It has no unit tests. It has not been worked on for 5 months. Marcus
(the author) is currently occupied with other things. As such it fails
my basic QA tests and IMHO it should not be released at this point. -0.5
(I won't be blocking a release but I am definately not committing to
supporting it either).
> XMLUtil--Components for working with XML (Component)
I need this as the fortress unit tests need it according to GUMP.
According to GUMP cocoon also needs it; no other deps known to GUMP. It
is an actively maintained package. It doesn't really have meaningful
unit tests, examples or documentation. I don't really know what it does.
As such, it fails my basic QA tests, and I should fix it because
fortress works with it (and I use fortress) but I don't actually feel
like fixing it. I feel more like making the unit tests independent of
this package. So a -0.5 from me. There was talk about moving this back
to cocoon. If so, now is the time to do this.
> I am +1 on the components, as they fit within our charter--as long as
> those components are stable and ready for a release.
relative measurements :D. How much QA do we want to do? The two packages
you marked as components are, according to GUMP, only really in active
use @ cocoon.
> I am also +1 on
> the XFC package for ECM to Fortress migrations. That project does fit
> within the boundaries of the Avalon project as a necessary utility.
yep, but it has no tests and is not really maintained. We should fix it
first, release it later.
> I am -0.5 on all the other utility code because I have not (1) worked
> with them, and I personally don't want to support them, and (2) they
> are generic enough utilities to be placed outside of the Avalon project
> and garner more support.
same sentiment here, except perhaps for policy.
cheers!
- Leo
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Peter Donald wrote, On 18/04/2003 17.16:
> On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 17:41, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
...
>>The fact is that these are cross-project entities, and thus have to be
>>treated differently. A project (for these it's Avalon) supervises, while
>>other committers from other projects can partecipate.
>
> well the board for better or worse does not believe that.
Just as you, I'm not the board, but AFAIK the board has never expressed
negatively on committers from other projects partecipating in the
repository of another project.
Apache is also about collaboration, and breaking up commit access in a
project tends to diminish that. Opening to other project committers is
exactly the opposite, it's *opening* part of a project to other committers.
See the purpose behind the words.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 17:41, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> > Last I heard the board is suggesting that projects should have flat
> > permission and responsibility sets. So in that context it is not possible
> > to have someone just interested in the component being a ocmmitter.
>
> Reread my sentence, I said that they have commitment for a component,
> not that they have seperate rights only on that component. They would
> have access at least to the whole components repository.
well according to the board they should have whole access to everything in
AValon.
> The fact is that these are cross-project entities, and thus have to be
> treated differently. A project (for these it's Avalon) supervises, while
> other committers from other projects can partecipate.
well the board for better or worse does not believe that.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
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| universe." -Albert Einstein |
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Peter Donald wrote, On 18/04/2003 9.04:
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:17, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>>>>I add again that when Cocoon devs need access, they should be able just
>>>>to ask for it in the component repo.
>>>
>>>I prefer that people who are given access show a long term commitment to
>>>Avalon.
>>
>>It's just about the Components. As long as they show that they have a
>>commitment to the component they want to work on, it's fine with me.
>
> Last I heard the board is suggesting that projects should have flat permission
> and responsibility sets. So in that context it is not possible to have
> someone just interested in the component being a ocmmitter.
Reread my sentence, I said that they have commitment for a component,
not that they have seperate rights only on that component. They would
have access at least to the whole components repository.
The fact is that these are cross-project entities, and thus have to be
treated differently. A project (for these it's Avalon) supervises, while
other committers from other projects can partecipate.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:17, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> >>I add again that when Cocoon devs need access, they should be able just
> >>to ask for it in the component repo.
> >
> > I prefer that people who are given access show a long term commitment to
> > Avalon.
>
> It's just about the Components. As long as they show that they have a
> commitment to the component they want to work on, it's fine with me.
Last I heard the board is suggesting that projects should have flat permission
and responsibility sets. So in that context it is not possible to have
someone just interested in the component being a ocmmitter.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
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Whatever you do will be insignificant,
but it is very important that you do it.
--Gandhi
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Peter Donald wrote, On 17/04/2003 12.41:
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:33, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
...
>>I add again that when Cocoon devs need access, they should be able just
>>to ask for it in the component repo.
>
> I prefer that people who are given access show a long term commitment to
> Avalon.
It's just about the Components. As long as they show that they have a
commitment to the component they want to work on, it's fine with me.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:33, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> I am saying that the ones that are now interested in maintaining it are
> also Avaloners.
thats probably because they are the only ones with access so they are the only
ones who are capable of being active.
> I add again that when Cocoon devs need access, they should be able just
> to ask for it in the component repo.
I prefer that people who are given access show a long term commitment to
Avalon.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
"Artists can color the sky red because they know it's blue. Those of us who
aren't artists must color things the way they really are or people might
think we're stupid." -- Jules Feiffer
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Peter Donald wrote, On 17/04/2003 12.32:
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:46, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>>Peter Donald wrote, On 17/04/2003 0.42:
>>
...
>>>>Store
>>>
>>>Should we not let Cocoon manage Store as that is where the community is?
>>>Why should Avalon be releasing something that has more developers
>>>elsewhere?
>>
>>Does it?
>>
>>AFAIK all interested are here too.
>
> Are you saying that other cocoon developers have no interest in store?
I am saying that the ones that are now interested in maintaining it are
also Avaloners. On the whole nobody in Cocoon is particulary active on
the stores ATM as they do their job, we have other things on focus.
I add again that when Cocoon devs need access, they should be able just
to ask for it in the component repo.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:46, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> Peter Donald wrote, On 17/04/2003 0.42:
> > On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 03:07, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> >>So the current list is:
> >
> > ...
> >
> >>Store
> >
> > Should we not let Cocoon manage Store as that is where the community is?
> > Why should Avalon be releasing something that has more developers
> > elsewhere?
>
> Does it?
>
> AFAIK all interested are here too.
Are you saying that other cocoon developers have no interest in store?
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Peter Donald wrote, On 17/04/2003 0.42:
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 03:07, Berin Loritsch wrote:
>
>>So the current list is:
>
> ...
>
>>Store
>
>
> Should we not let Cocoon manage Store as that is where the community is? Why
> should Avalon be releasing something that has more developers elsewhere?
Does it?
AFAIK all interested are here too. And I restate that the component repo
should have access to all intetested parties.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 03:07, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> So the current list is:
>
...
> Store
Should we not let Cocoon manage Store as that is where the community is? Why
should Avalon be releasing something that has more developers elsewhere?
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
God is Dead -- Nietzsche
Nietzsche is Dead -- God
Nietzsche is God -- The Dead
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 03:07, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> Policy (to Phoenix?)
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/spice/spice/components/xmlpolicy/
though it will take a few weeks or up to a month to stabilize it there. We
need to keep the excalibur version here to make sure we don't negativly
impact Phoenix in the transition.
> Is this correct?
yep.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
He strains to hear a whisper who refuses to hear a shout.
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:51, Stephen McConnell wrote:
> Could you please move Extension up into the release list.
If you are the only one supporting a release then it is not a release by the
whole of Avalon and thus should not be released.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Berin:
Could you please move Extension up into the release list.
Cheers, Steve.
Berin Loritsch wrote:
> So the current list is:
>
> Compatibility (with Naming)
> Fortress
> Lifecycle
> Store
> XMLUtil
>
> Things that will/must be moved are:
>
> Extension (what is the location?)
> Loader (already removed grmbl)
> ThreadContext (already removed grmbl)
> Policy (to Phoenix?)
>
> Things that should be in Sandbox for now:
>
> XFC
>
> Is this correct?
>
--
Stephen J. McConnell
mailto:mcconnell@apache.org
http://www.osm.net
Sent via James running under Merlin as an NT service.
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Berin Loritsch wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>>
>> Berin Loritsch wrote, On 17/04/2003 14.20:
>>
>>> Stephen McConnell wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sorry - but moving Extension to Spice is not an acceptable
>>>> solution. This code is required by the Merlin implementation and
>>>> the creation of a dependency on the Spice project is totally and
>>>> completely out the question.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve, two questions for you:
>>>
>>> 1) Does it really matter where a library is hosted as long as its
>>> usable
>>> and has a compatible license?
>>>
>>> IMNSHO, no.
>>
>>
>>
>> IMNSHO yes, especially if it was used knowing that it was part of
>> Apache.
>>
>> He is relying on something that is in Apache and that he has full
>> access to. If it becomes part of something else, he looses access.
>> Furthermore if the code licensed is transferred, it can be
>> closesourced in the future.
>
>
> What good is access if you don't use it.
What are you suggesting ... that it is not being used? Are you
suggesting that its usage in Phoenix is not a concern for the Avalon
PMC? Are you suggesting that Merlin is not using this? Are you
suggesting that access does not matter? Access matters. Control over
the code base matters.
> The thing is we need to focus
> on what we as a greater community will support. So far the only one
> sticking up for it is Stephen. So the question is, who else is willing
> to step up to the plate and support it?
Wrong.
The "thing is" that the Avalon PMC has a responsibility towards this
community to engage constructively and supportively on matters relating
to restructuring of the Avalon codebase. That means going out of our
way to ensure users of the existing code base are not disenfranchised.
More specifically its about the Avalon PMC doing everything it can to
facilitate and support community building actions. You don't build
community support by dumping code that other members of this community
are using on a day-to-day basis.
> Commons won't support it if the donaters don't. They don't like to be
> considered a dumping ground.
So stop the dumping inference and start thinking about way in which you
can facilitate the development of a community around this. A good
starting point would be understand what the package is about - it
happens to be completely relevant to Fortress BTW. You may also want to
take a look at Leo Simons email about the relationship of jar extensions
and component packaging. The extension package happens to be central to
the ideas he's presenting there.
Cheers, Steve.
--
Stephen J. McConnell
mailto:mcconnell@apache.org
http://www.osm.net
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> Berin Loritsch wrote, On 17/04/2003 14.20:
>
>> Stephen McConnell wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry - but moving Extension to Spice is not an acceptable solution.
>>> This code is required by the Merlin implementation and the creation
>>> of a dependency on the Spice project is totally and completely out
>>> the question.
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve, two questions for you:
>>
>> 1) Does it really matter where a library is hosted as long as its usable
>> and has a compatible license?
>>
>> IMNSHO, no.
>
>
> IMNSHO yes, especially if it was used knowing that it was part of Apache.
>
> He is relying on something that is in Apache and that he has full access
> to. If it becomes part of something else, he looses access. Furthermore
> if the code licensed is transferred, it can be closesourced in the future.
What good is access if you don't use it. The thing is we need to focus
on what we as a greater community will support. So far the only one
sticking up for it is Stephen. So the question is, who else is willing
to step up to the plate and support it?
Commons won't support it if the donaters don't. They don't like to be
considered a dumping ground.
--
"You know the world is going crazy when the best
rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy,
The Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is
accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want
to go to war. And the 3 most powerful men in America
are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon' (sic)".
-----Chris Rock
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Berin Loritsch wrote, On 17/04/2003 14.20:
> Stephen McConnell wrote:
>
>> Sorry - but moving Extension to Spice is not an acceptable solution.
>> This code is required by the Merlin implementation and the creation of
>> a dependency on the Spice project is totally and completely out the
>> question.
>
>
> Steve, two questions for you:
>
> 1) Does it really matter where a library is hosted as long as its usable
> and has a compatible license?
>
> IMNSHO, no.
IMNSHO yes, especially if it was used knowing that it was part of Apache.
He is relying on something that is in Apache and that he has full access
to. If it becomes part of something else, he looses access. Furthermore
if the code licensed is transferred, it can be closesourced in the future.
Is extension an utility library? Then what has happened to Jakarta
Commons, has it suddenly vanished? ;->
> 2) Have you done any significant development (beyond simple happy to
> glad changes)?
>
> If so, you might have a leg to stand on.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Berin Loritsch wrote:
> Stephen McConnell wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Sorry - but moving Extension to Spice is not an acceptable solution.
>> This code is required by the Merlin implementation and the creation
>> of a dependency on the Spice project is totally and completely out
>> the question.
>
>
> Steve, two questions for you:
>
> 1) Does it really matter where a library is hosted as long as its usable
> and has a compatible license?
>
> IMNSHO, no.
IMNSHO - yes.
It matters to me what license this code is under and it matters to me
that the Avalon PMC takes its responsibilities seriously with respect to
facilitating and supporting a constructive approach to the
rationalization of the Avalon codebase and sup-porting the interest of
the members of this community. A responsible approach is for this PMC
to facilitate the development of a community supporting this code base.
This can be achieved and this package is a excellent candidate.
Cheers, Steve.
--
Stephen J. McConnell
mailto:mcconnell@apache.org
http://www.osm.net
Sent via James running under Merlin as an NT service.
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Stephen McConnell wrote:
>
>
> Sorry - but moving Extension to Spice is not an acceptable solution.
> This code is required by the Merlin implementation and the creation of a
> dependency on the Spice project is totally and completely out the question.
Steve, two questions for you:
1) Does it really matter where a library is hosted as long as its usable
and has a compatible license?
IMNSHO, no.
2) Have you done any significant development (beyond simple happy to
glad changes)?
If so, you might have a leg to stand on.
--
"You know the world is going crazy when the best
rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy,
The Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is
accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want
to go to war. And the 3 most powerful men in America
are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon' (sic)".
-----Chris Rock
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Leo Simons wrote:
>
>
> "Expulsion" List
> ----------------
> These won't be released during phase III and are looking for a new home.
>
>> Extension (what is the location?)
>
>
> IIUC, phoenix and merlin use this, Peter wants to move it into Spice,
> Steve wants to keep it where it is, and no-one else really cares for
> it. Hence it is still up for debate. IMO it is better for avalon (and
> phoenix, and merlin) if utility code like this is moved out. I have no
> problem with moving this to spice, and since that is what the primary
> author prefers, that sounds like the best idea.
Sorry - but moving Extension to Spice is not an acceptable solution.
This code is required by the Merlin implementation and the creation of a
dependency on the Spice project is totally and completely out the question.
Cheers, Steve.
--
Stephen J. McConnell
mailto:mcconnell@apache.org
http://www.osm.net
Sent via James running under Merlin as an NT service.
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Peter Donald wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:38, Leo Sutic wrote:
>
>>>>Extension (what is the location?)
>>
>>Move to Spice
>
>
> unless someone else wants to step and do the work this is going to have to
> wait a while until I get the time to do it.
>
>
>>and keep a copy of the current state in Compatibility?
>
>
> for extension/threadcontext it may be a good idea but for the rest it seems
> pointless. extension/threadcontext have indirectly been part of a release
> before but never released themselves but I don't think the others have ever
> seen any use out of Avalon (except by me and by people I know and have
> already got to move to spice).
+1 to Extension/ThreadContext
-1 to others
--
"You know the world is going crazy when the best
rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy,
The Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is
accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want
to go to war. And the 3 most powerful men in America
are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon' (sic)".
-----Chris Rock
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Re: [VOTE-RESULT] Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
update:
Leo Sutic wrote:
> Disputed:
> + Policy -> Phoenix
> -1 from peterd: should not move into phoenix as used as independent
> component outside context of phoenix. It should be
> kept a separate component and moved where it will be
> maintained.
should be kept around unreleased for a month or so
and then deprecated in favor of spice-xmlpolicy
> + Loader -> Extract from Attic, move to compatibility.
> -1 from bloritsch: Loader hasn't ever been used or released--let's
> put it in our code graveyard though (tar.gz on the
> web site).
is not a veto, should be -0
> + Store
> ? from peterd: Why are we releasing what is basically a Cocoon
component here?
answer from me: it lives here and several people have an interest in
keeping it alive here. It is not a cocoon component technically, just
(percieved?) community-wise. Since we have more than enough cocooners to
maintain it here over here I do not think this is a "liability risk". If
it becomes a problem we just thump more cocooners on their heads to help
work things out (and no, I really really doubt the board will make that
a problem ;).
> LONG FORM:
>
> Release-as-is list:
>
> + Compatibility (with Naming and Loader)
>
+1 from leosutic, bloritsch, cziegler, leosimons
>
> + Fortress
>
+1 from leosutic, bloritsch, cziegler, leosimons
>
> + Lifecycle
>
> +1 from leosutic, bloritsch, cziegler, leosimons
>
> + Store
>
> +1 from leosutic, bloritsch, cziegler
-0.5 or something from peterd
>
> + XMLUtil
>
> +1 from leosutic, bloritsch, cziegler
>
> Move list:
>
> + Loader -> Extract from Attic, move to compatibility.
>
> +1 from leosutic, cziegler
-0 from bloritsch: Loader hasn't ever been used or released--let's
> put it in our code graveyard though (tar.gz on the
> web site).
>
> + ThreadContext -> Cornerstone ThreadManager
>
> +1 from leosutic, bloritsch, cziegler
>
> + Policy -> Phoenix
>
> +1 from leosutic, bloritsch, cziegler
> -1 from peterd: should not move into phoenix as used as independent
> component outside context of phoenix. It should be
> kept a separate component and moved where it will be
> maintained.
alternative:
+ Policy -> spice-xmlpolicy
+1 from peterd
>
> + XFC -> Sandbox
>
+1 from leosutic, bloritsch, cziegler, leosimons
cheers,
- LSD
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RE: [VOTE-RESULT] Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Leo Sutic <le...@inspireinfrastructure.com>.
> From: Berin Loritsch [mailto:bloritsch@apache.org]
>
> Where are you planning on putting i18n? Its pretty useful.
No plans.
/LS
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Re: [VOTE-RESULT] Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Leo Sutic wrote:
>
>>From: Berin Loritsch [mailto:bloritsch@apache.org]
>>
>>Leo Sutic wrote:
>>
>>>So, you still fine with a deprecated Loader in compatibility?
>>
>>yes.
>
>
> Sheepishly I must admit to changing to a -1 myself. Loader is dependent
> on Extension i18n and a couple of other Excalibur projects that are
> about to be moved or nuked. Putting it in Compat would quadruple
> the dependencies for Compat with very little gain.
Where are you planning on putting i18n? Its pretty useful.
We might want to fold it into the Avalon Bundle proposal that will
have to be developed in Sandbox. Also, if Extension is part of the
Avalon Bundle solution, then they might have to fit together...
Compat should not have any dependecies itself.
--
"You know the world is going crazy when the best
rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy,
The Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is
accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want
to go to war. And the 3 most powerful men in America
are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon' (sic)".
-----Chris Rock
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RE: [VOTE-RESULT] Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Leo Sutic <le...@inspireinfrastructure.com>.
> From: Berin Loritsch [mailto:bloritsch@apache.org]
>
> Leo Sutic wrote:
> > So, you still fine with a deprecated Loader in compatibility?
>
> yes.
Sheepishly I must admit to changing to a -1 myself. Loader is dependent
on Extension i18n and a couple of other Excalibur projects that are
about to be moved or nuked. Putting it in Compat would quadruple
the dependencies for Compat with very little gain.
/LS
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Re: [VOTE-RESULT] Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Leo Sutic wrote:
>
>
> so I'm not alone in being confused.
>
> No, I'm not counting on anything. The "and Loader" part is conditional
> on Loader being released at all.
>
> So, you still fine with a deprecated Loader in compatibility?
yes.
--
"You know the world is going crazy when the best
rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy,
The Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is
accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want
to go to war. And the 3 most powerful men in America
are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon' (sic)".
-----Chris Rock
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RE: [VOTE-RESULT] Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Leo Sutic <le...@inspireinfrastructure.com>.
> From: Berin Loritsch [mailto:bloritsch@apache.org]
>
> Leo Sutic wrote:
> > SUMMARY
> >
> > Good to go:
> > + Release: Compatibility (with Naming and Loader)
> >
> > + Loader -> Extract from Attic, move to compatibility.
> > -1 from bloritsch: Loader hasn't ever been used or
> released--let's
> > put it in our code graveyard though
> (tar.gz on the
> > web site).
> >
> > QUESTIONS:
> >
> > Berin: I have more +1s than -1s on moving loader into
> compatibility.
> > How strong is
> > your -1?
>
> It seems you are already counting on it being in compatibility.
Damn.
The line:
+ Release: Compatibility (with Naming and Loader)
was a mistake.
You, however, wrote:
> > Release-as-is list:
> >
> > + Compatibility (with Naming and Loader)
> > + Fortress
> > + Lifecycle
> > + Store
> > + XMLUtil
>
> +1 for all these
so I'm not alone in being confused.
No, I'm not counting on anything. The "and Loader" part is conditional
on Loader being released at all.
So, you still fine with a deprecated Loader in compatibility?
/LS
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Re: [VOTE-RESULT] Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Leo Sutic wrote:
> SUMMARY
>
> Good to go:
> + Release: Compatibility (with Naming and Loader)
>
> + Loader -> Extract from Attic, move to compatibility.
> -1 from bloritsch: Loader hasn't ever been used or released--let's
> put it in our code graveyard though (tar.gz on the
> web site).
>
> QUESTIONS:
>
> Berin: I have more +1s than -1s on moving loader into compatibility. How
> strong is
> your -1?
It seems you are already counting on it being in compatibility.
I am not going to stand in the way of putting it in compatibility. As
long as it is not construed as we are continuing support for it, I am
ok.
--
"You know the world is going crazy when the best
rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy,
The Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is
accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want
to go to war. And the 3 most powerful men in America
are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon' (sic)".
-----Chris Rock
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Re: [VOTE-RESULT] Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 02:14, Leo Sutic wrote:
> PeterD: Regarding Store: How strongly do you oppose the release?
fairly strongly because it is not a component developed by Avalon but a
component developed by subset of Avalon from cocoon. It should be placed
where the community will support it (ie Cocoon). If there is really a need
for it over here (which I have not heard expressed) then someone needs to
put in some effort at documenting and unit testing it before it is released.
> Regarding Policy: Move to Commons-Sandbox? Do you have any
> suggestion for
> a home for it?
As I said before
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/spice/spice/components/xmlpolicy/
but we need to give it time to settle and need to make sure it is better unit
tested before Phoenix switches to it. SHould happen within a month. Until
then keep it where it is (or make gump depend on binary jar of class).
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
Dating a women is like driving in a foreign country. You
don't know what side of the road your on, you can't understand
the signs and you certainly don't want to ask for directions
but it usually worth the ride.
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[VOTE-RESULT] Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Leo Sutic <le...@inspireinfrastructure.com>.
SUMMARY
Good to go:
+ Release: Compatibility (with Naming and Loader)
+ Release: Fortress
+ Release: Lifecycle
+ Release: XMLUtil
+ Move: ThreadContext -> Cornerstone ThreadManager
+ Move: XFC -> Sandbox
Disputed:
+ Policy -> Phoenix
-1 from peterd: should not move into phoenix as used as independent
component outside context of phoenix. It should be
kept a separate component and moved where it will be
maintained.
+ Loader -> Extract from Attic, move to compatibility.
-1 from bloritsch: Loader hasn't ever been used or released--let's
put it in our code graveyard though (tar.gz on the
web site).
+ Store
? from peterd: Why are we releasing what is basically a Cocoon
component here?
QUESTIONS:
Berin: I have more +1s than -1s on moving loader into compatibility. How
strong is
your -1?
PeterD: Regarding Store: How strongly do you oppose the release?
Regarding Policy: Move to Commons-Sandbox? Do you have any
suggestion for
a home for it?
LONG FORM:
Release-as-is list:
+ Compatibility (with Naming and Loader)
+1 from leosutic, bloritsch, cziegler
+ Fortress
+1 from leosutic, bloritsch, cziegler
+ Lifecycle
+1 from leosutic, bloritsch, cziegler
+ Store
+1 from leosutic, bloritsch, cziegler
? from peterd: Why are we releasing what is basically a Cocoon
component here?
+ XMLUtil
+1 from leosutic, bloritsch, cziegler
Move list:
+ Loader -> Extract from Attic, move to compatibility.
+1 from leosutic, cziegler
-1 from bloritsch: Loader hasn't ever been used or released--let's
put it in our code graveyard though (tar.gz on the
web site).
+ ThreadContext -> Cornerstone ThreadManager
+1 from leosutic, bloritsch, cziegler
+ Policy -> Phoenix
+1 from leosutic, bloritsch, cziegler
-1 from peterd: should not move into phoenix as used as independent
component outside context of phoenix. It should be
kept a separate component and moved where it will be
maintained.
+ XFC -> Sandbox
+1 from leosutic, bloritsch, cziegler
/LS
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RE: [VOTE] Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Leo Sutic <le...@inspireinfrastructure.com>.
> From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@realityforge.org]
>
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:55, Leo Sutic wrote:
> > Release-as-is list:
> >
> > + Compatibility (with Naming and Loader)
> > + Fortress
> > + Lifecycle
> > + Store
>
> Why are we releasing what is basically a Cocoon component here?
Why is it basically a Cocoon component?
> > Move list:
>
> > + Policy -> Phoenix
>
> It should be kept a separate component
> and moved where it will be maintained.
Which is?
/LS
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Re: [VOTE] Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:55, Leo Sutic wrote:
> Release-as-is list:
>
> + Compatibility (with Naming and Loader)
> + Fortress
> + Lifecycle
> + Store
Why are we releasing what is basically a Cocoon component here?
> Move list:
> + Policy -> Phoenix
should not move into phoenix as used as independent component outside context
of phoenix. It should be kept a separate component and moved where it will be
maintained.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
"Artists can color the sky red because they know it's blue. Those of us who
aren't artists must color things the way they really are or people might
think we're stupid." -- Jules Feiffer
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Re: [VOTE] Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Berin Loritsch wrote, On 17/04/2003 14.54:
> Leo Sutic wrote:
...
>> What to do with the Extension package is so far undecided, and not
>> part of the proposal.
>>
>> + Extension
>> alternatives (so far):
>> http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/discovery/
>> http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/extension/ (new subproject)
>> Spice
>
> Any volunteers to sponser it over there?
If Stephen is the only one interested, he has the possibility of talking
on the commons list about it.
Probably the best route is that of a synergy with Discovery.
Note that Ant itself has extension code as tasks IIRC.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: [VOTE] Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Leo Sutic wrote:
> Proposal:
>
> Release-as-is list:
>
> + Compatibility (with Naming and Loader)
> + Fortress
> + Lifecycle
> + Store
> + XMLUtil
+1 for all these
>
> Move list:
>
> + Loader -> Extract from Attic, move to compatibility.
-1 Loader hasn't ever been used or released--let's put it in our
code graveyard though (tar.gz on the web site).
> + ThreadContext -> Cornerstone ThreadManager
> + Policy -> Phoenix
> + XFC -> Sandbox
+1 to the rest of these.
> What to do with the Extension package is so far undecided, and not
> part of the proposal.
>
> + Extension
> alternatives (so far):
> http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/discovery/
> http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/extension/ (new subproject)
> Spice
Any volunteers to sponser it over there?
--
"You know the world is going crazy when the best
rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy,
The Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is
accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want
to go to war. And the 3 most powerful men in America
are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon' (sic)".
-----Chris Rock
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RE: [VOTE] Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
+1 for everything
Carsten
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leo Sutic [mailto:leo.sutic@inspireinfrastructure.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:56 PM
> To: 'Avalon Developers List'
> Subject: [VOTE] Excalibur Phase III List
>
>
>
> Proposal:
>
> Release-as-is list:
>
> + Compatibility (with Naming and Loader)
> + Fortress
> + Lifecycle
> + Store
> + XMLUtil
>
> Move list:
>
> + Loader -> Extract from Attic, move to compatibility.
> + ThreadContext -> Cornerstone ThreadManager
> + Policy -> Phoenix
> + XFC -> Sandbox
>
> End proposal. You may vote individually for each package, or simply
> +1 for everything.
>
> Here's my +1 for everything.
>
> What to do with the Extension package is so far undecided, and not
> part of the proposal.
>
> + Extension
> alternatives (so far):
> http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/discovery/
> http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/extension/ (new subproject)
> Spice
>
> /LS
>
>
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[VOTE] Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Leo Sutic <le...@inspireinfrastructure.com>.
Proposal:
Release-as-is list:
+ Compatibility (with Naming and Loader)
+ Fortress
+ Lifecycle
+ Store
+ XMLUtil
Move list:
+ Loader -> Extract from Attic, move to compatibility.
+ ThreadContext -> Cornerstone ThreadManager
+ Policy -> Phoenix
+ XFC -> Sandbox
End proposal. You may vote individually for each package, or simply
+1 for everything.
Here's my +1 for everything.
What to do with the Extension package is so far undecided, and not
part of the proposal.
+ Extension
alternatives (so far):
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/discovery/
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/extension/ (new subproject)
Spice
/LS
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Leo Sutic wrote:
>
>
>>From: Berin Loritsch [mailto:bloritsch@apache.org]
>>
>>AFAIK, the only people really using ThreadContext use it in
>>conjunction with Cornerstone ThreadManager. How about
>>incorporating it there?
>>
>>
>
>OK.
>
>I'm about to call a vote. Can you have a look at this and get
>any corrections in, and then I'll put it up for vote?
>
>Release-as-is list:
>
> + Compatibility (with Naming)
> + Fortress
> + Lifecycle
> + Store
> + XMLUtil
>
>Move list:
> + Extension -> To: http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/discovery/ ?
>
http:/./jakarta.apache.org/commons/extension/ <-- i.e. new sub-project
in commons.
Keep in mind that the extension package is very specific. It is about
the support of the extension tags declared in jar files. It is not a
general discovery solution - it simply is an implementation of a jar
path resolving mechanisms baseed on the extension tags included in jar
manifests in accordances with Sun's Openional Extensions Specification.
Cheers, Steve.
> + Loader -> Extract from Attic, move to compatibility.
> + ThreadContext -> Cornerstone ThreadManager
> + Policy -> Phoenix
> + XFC -> Sandbox
>
>Berin, do you know any jakarta-commons people that we can talk to
>regarding Extension?
>
>/LS
>
>
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>
>
>
>
--
Stephen J. McConnell
mailto:mcconnell@apache.org
http://www.osm.net
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Leo Sutic wrote:
>
>>From: Berin Loritsch [mailto:bloritsch@apache.org]
>>
>>AFAIK, the only people really using ThreadContext use it in
>>conjunction with Cornerstone ThreadManager. How about
>>incorporating it there?
>
>
> OK.
>
> I'm about to call a vote. Can you have a look at this and get
> any corrections in, and then I'll put it up for vote?
>
> Release-as-is list:
>
> + Compatibility (with Naming)
> + Fortress
> + Lifecycle
> + Store
> + XMLUtil
>
> Move list:
> + Extension -> To: http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/discovery/ ?
> + Loader -> Extract from Attic, move to compatibility.
I don't think Loader is really used, and it has *never* been released.
We need to extract it and put it in an archive, but other than that,
I wouldn't worry about it.
> + ThreadContext -> Cornerstone ThreadManager
> + Policy -> Phoenix
> + XFC -> Sandbox
>
> Berin, do you know any jakarta-commons people that we can talk to
> regarding Extension?
Off hand, no. Its a High volume list, and I no longer subscribe.
Jonathan Keys who maintains Commons CLI is very responsive, but
it really depends on who will be supporting it.
The Commons folks are very adamant about not being perceived as
a dumping ground, so unless there are folks willing to support it,
it will not be accepted.
My suggestion is talk to folks who are in charge of something
similar and get their oppinion.
--
"You know the world is going crazy when the best
rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy,
The Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is
accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want
to go to war. And the 3 most powerful men in America
are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon' (sic)".
-----Chris Rock
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RE: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Leo Sutic <le...@inspireinfrastructure.com>.
> From: Berin Loritsch [mailto:bloritsch@apache.org]
>
> AFAIK, the only people really using ThreadContext use it in
> conjunction with Cornerstone ThreadManager. How about
> incorporating it there?
OK.
I'm about to call a vote. Can you have a look at this and get
any corrections in, and then I'll put it up for vote?
Release-as-is list:
+ Compatibility (with Naming)
+ Fortress
+ Lifecycle
+ Store
+ XMLUtil
Move list:
+ Extension -> To: http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/discovery/ ?
+ Loader -> Extract from Attic, move to compatibility.
+ ThreadContext -> Cornerstone ThreadManager
+ Policy -> Phoenix
+ XFC -> Sandbox
Berin, do you know any jakarta-commons people that we can talk to
regarding Extension?
/LS
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Leo Sutic wrote:
>
>>for extension/threadcontext it may be a good idea but for the
>>rest it seems pointless.
>
>
> Even if it hasn't been part of an official release etc. I think
> we should keep it around. Having it in Compatibility does no
> harm, and makes it easy to satisfy those that have become dependent
> on the stuff.
AFAIK, the only people really using ThreadContext use it in conjunction
with Cornerstone ThreadManager. How about incorporating it there?
--
"You know the world is going crazy when the best
rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy,
The Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is
accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want
to go to war. And the 3 most powerful men in America
are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon' (sic)".
-----Chris Rock
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RE: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Leo Sutic <le...@inspireinfrastructure.com>.
> From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@realityforge.org]
>
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:38, Leo Sutic wrote:
> > > > Extension (what is the location?)
> >
> > Move to Spice
>
> unless someone else wants to step and do the work this is
> going to have to
> wait a while until I get the time to do it.
I can do the shoving around of code within Avalon-Excalibur CVS.
> > and keep a copy of the current state in Compatibility?
>
> for extension/threadcontext it may be a good idea but for the
> rest it seems pointless.
Even if it hasn't been part of an official release etc. I think
we should keep it around. Having it in Compatibility does no
harm, and makes it easy to satisfy those that have become dependent
on the stuff.
/LS
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:38, Leo Sutic wrote:
> > > Extension (what is the location?)
>
> Move to Spice
unless someone else wants to step and do the work this is going to have to
wait a while until I get the time to do it.
> and keep a copy of the current state in Compatibility?
for extension/threadcontext it may be a good idea but for the rest it seems
pointless. extension/threadcontext have indirectly been part of a release
before but never released themselves but I don't think the others have ever
seen any use out of Avalon (except by me and by people I know and have
already got to move to spice).
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
-----------------------------------------------------------
Don't take life too seriously --
you'll never get out of it alive.
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Leo Sutic wrote:
>
>
>>From: Stephen McConnell [mailto:mcconnell@apache.org]
>>
>>Leo Sutic wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>From: news [mailto:news@main.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Leo Simons
>>>>
>>>>"Expulsion" List
>>>>----------------
>>>>These won't be released during phase III and are looking for
>>>>a new home.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Extension (what is the location?)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>Move to Spice and keep a copy of the current state in Compatibility?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>-1
>>
>>Merlin is using this package.
>>
>>
>
>So, what do you suggest we do? Can we move it into Merlin and keep a
>copy of current state in Compatibilit?
>
Shoving around code on which other Avalon projects are dependent is not
exactly helpful. Moving to Spice is worse. It removes any control the
PMC have of this subsystem and gurantees a disconnect between the
interests of this community and our ability to ensure effective
management. Effective management is about ensuring the viability of a
code base by facilitating the development of a community around the code
base.
Moving it into Merlin does not make a lot of sence because it is used by
both Merlin and Phoenix. Clearly if Phoneix is taken out of the
equation then moving it to Merlin is possible. However, I don't think
this is best approach if we are aiming to "facilite" community building
around this package. What makes more sence is for it to either stay
where it is (along side the other utilities we have - i18n, threads,
logging, etc.), or, move it to commons.
Keep in mind that the introduction of automated generation of jar
extension dependencies data by projects like Maven significantly enhance
the audience for this package.
Cheers, Steve.
--
Stephen J. McConnell
mailto:mcconnell@apache.org
http://www.osm.net
Sent via James running under Merlin as an NT service.
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RE: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Leo Sutic <le...@inspireinfrastructure.com>.
> From: Stephen McConnell [mailto:mcconnell@apache.org]
>
> Leo Sutic wrote:
> >
> >>From: news [mailto:news@main.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Leo Simons
> >>
> >>"Expulsion" List
> >>----------------
> >>These won't be released during phase III and are looking for
> >>a new home.
> >>
> >>>Extension (what is the location?)
> >
> >Move to Spice and keep a copy of the current state in Compatibility?
> >
>
> -1
>
> Merlin is using this package.
So, what do you suggest we do? Can we move it into Merlin and keep a
copy of current state in Compatibilit?
/LS
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Leo Sutic wrote:
>
>
>>From: news [mailto:news@main.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Leo Simons
>>
>>"Expulsion" List
>>----------------
>>These won't be released during phase III and are looking for
>>a new home.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Extension (what is the location?)
>>>
>>>
>
>Move to Spice and keep a copy of the current state in Compatibility?
>
-1
Merlin is using this package.
Cheers, Steve.
--
Stephen J. McConnell
mailto:mcconnell@apache.org
http://www.osm.net
Sent via James running under Merlin as an NT service.
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RE: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Leo Sutic <le...@inspireinfrastructure.com>.
> From: news [mailto:news@main.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Leo Simons
>
> "Expulsion" List
> ----------------
> These won't be released during phase III and are looking for
> a new home.
>
> > Extension (what is the location?)
Move to Spice and keep a copy of the current state in Compatibility?
> > Loader (already removed grmbl)
>
> apparently Peter's proposal is loader --> spice-classman. Fine with
> that. +1 on grmbl.
Move to Spice and keep a copy of the current state (taken out of the
attic)
in Compatibility?
> > ThreadContext (already removed grmbl)
>
> threadcontext --> just die? Fine with that. +1 on grmbl.
Move to Spice and keep a copy of the current state (taken out of the
attic)
in Compatibility?
> > Policy (to Phoenix?)
Move to Spice and keep a copy of the current state (taken out of the
attic)
in Compatibility?
/LS
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
Berin Loritsch wrote:
Release List
------------
These will be released during phase III.
> Compatibility (with Naming)
> Fortress
> Lifecycle
seems like we have consensus on these three.
> Store
> XMLUtil
we've had some requests not to move these back into cocoon (I have
received another one privately). I don't really understand why, but it
may have to do (speculation) with the perceived monolithic nature of the
cocoon distribution, where people don't want the kitchen sink with a
storage utility. My suspicion is that this nature is going / has gone
away, with cocoon providing multiple smaller distributables. It also has
to do with people who are planning to work on it here, but aren't atm.
I am still not planning to work on them or even figure out how they
work. I still think they should be moved back to cocoon, some other
people do as well. If it is to remain here, I would really like the
people with an interest in these packages to improve measurable
stability prior to a release.
My vote is a strong -0 on releasing them during phase III.
"Expulsion" List
----------------
These won't be released during phase III and are looking for a new home.
> Extension (what is the location?)
IIUC, phoenix and merlin use this, Peter wants to move it into Spice,
Steve wants to keep it where it is, and no-one else really cares for it.
Hence it is still up for debate. IMO it is better for avalon (and
phoenix, and merlin) if utility code like this is moved out. I have no
problem with moving this to spice, and since that is what the primary
author prefers, that sounds like the best idea.
I don't want it released as part of excalibur as it is generic utility
code which has nothing to do especially with avalon.
> Loader (already removed grmbl)
apparently Peter's proposal is loader --> spice-classman. Fine with
that. +1 on grmbl.
> ThreadContext (already removed grmbl)
threadcontext --> just die? Fine with that. +1 on grmbl.
> Policy (to Phoenix?)
Sole maintainer for this is Pete, and IIUC he wants to move it into
spice. Fine by me. We can also have it sit around in excalibur or
sandbox cvs for "a month or so".
"Alpha package" List
--------------------
these go into avalon-sandbox.
> XFC
yep.
cheers!
- Leo
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
So the current list is:
Compatibility (with Naming)
Fortress
Lifecycle
Store
XMLUtil
Things that will/must be moved are:
Extension (what is the location?)
Loader (already removed grmbl)
ThreadContext (already removed grmbl)
Policy (to Phoenix?)
Things that should be in Sandbox for now:
XFC
Is this correct?
--
"You know the world is going crazy when the best
rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy,
The Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is
accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want
to go to war. And the 3 most powerful men in America
are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon' (sic)".
-----Chris Rock
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Ulrich Mayring <ul...@denic.de>.
Berin Loritsch wrote:
> Ulrich Mayring wrote:
>
>> Yep, we wrote our own ThreadPool impl and are using it with the
>> Excalibur ThreadManager.
>
> Excalibur ThreadManager? You mean the one in Event? Or do you
> mean Cornerstone ThreadManager?
Darn, you're right, Cornerstone ThreadManager. It's hard to tell all
these components apart :)
Ulrich
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Ulrich Mayring wrote:
> Berin Loritsch wrote:
>
>> Actually, many people who have used the Threads package blindly included
>> the ThreadContext package because they believed that it was required.
>> Very few people knew what the ThreadContext package was for, much less
>> how to use it properly. I would say few people actually used
>> ThreadContext.
>>
>> Did you?
>
>
> Yep, we wrote our own ThreadPool impl and are using it with the
> Excalibur ThreadManager.
Excalibur ThreadManager? You mean the one in Event? Or do you
mean Cornerstone ThreadManager?
--
"You know the world is going crazy when the best
rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy,
The Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is
accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want
to go to war. And the 3 most powerful men in America
are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon' (sic)".
-----Chris Rock
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Ulrich Mayring <ul...@denic.de>.
Berin Loritsch wrote:
> Actually, many people who have used the Threads package blindly included
> the ThreadContext package because they believed that it was required.
> Very few people knew what the ThreadContext package was for, much less
> how to use it properly. I would say few people actually used
> ThreadContext.
>
> Did you?
Yep, we wrote our own ThreadPool impl and are using it with the
Excalibur ThreadManager.
Ulrich
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Ulrich Mayring wrote:
> Stephen McConnell wrote:
>
>>
>> The ThreadContext package is used within James and needs to be released.
>
>
> I think many people, who have used the Threads package, have also used
> the ThreadContext package. I agree that it should be released.
Actually, many people who have used the Threads package blindly included
the ThreadContext package because they believed that it was required.
Very few people knew what the ThreadContext package was for, much less
how to use it properly. I would say few people actually used
ThreadContext.
Did you?
--
"You know the world is going crazy when the best
rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy,
The Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is
accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want
to go to war. And the 3 most powerful men in America
are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon' (sic)".
-----Chris Rock
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Ulrich Mayring <ul...@denic.de>.
Stephen McConnell wrote:
>
> The ThreadContext package is used within James and needs to be released.
I think many people, who have used the Threads package, have also used
the ThreadContext package. I agree that it should be released.
Ulrich
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Stephen McConnell wrote:
>
> +1 for:
>
> Extension
> Lifecycle
> Fortress
> ThreadContext
>
> The ThreadContext package is used within James and needs to be released.
> Lifestyle is fine and I'm ready to support it. I also am sort of
> familiar with Extension and ready to provide support for that package as
> well. Both Lifecycle and Extension are Merlin dependencies.
Peter D. suggested that we hold off on ThreadContext last in Phase II,
and he was the principle author of it.
The question is, should WE support it, or should we donate it to the
JAMES team? Who else uses ThreadContext?
--
"You know the world is going crazy when the best
rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy,
The Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is
accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want
to go to war. And the 3 most powerful men in America
are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon' (sic)".
-----Chris Rock
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
+1 for:
Extension
Lifecycle
Fortress
ThreadContext
The ThreadContext package is used within James and needs to be released.
Lifestyle is fine and I'm ready to support it. I also am sort of
familiar with Extension and ready to provide support for that package as
well. Both Lifecycle and Extension are Merlin dependencies.
Cheers, Steve.
Berin Loritsch wrote:
> The remaining projects yet to be released in Excalibur are:
>
> Compatibility (with the inclusion of Naming)
> Extension
> Fortress
> Lifecycle
> Loader
> -N-a-m-i-n-g- (incorporated in Compatibility)
> Policy
> Store
> ThreadContext
> XFC
> XMLUtil
>
> Of those, the definites are Fortress, Lifecycle,
> and Compatibility.
>
> The question marks are just about everything else. What is release
> quality, and needed?
>
> Extension--JAR manifest utilities (Utility Code)
> Loader--Metadata enhanced classloader utilities (Utility Code)
> Policy--Metadata enhanced security management utilities (Utility Code)
> Store--Cache implementation (Component)
> ThreadContext--Thread specific context utilities (Utility Code)
> XFC--Configuration/Metadata migration tools (Utility Code)
> XMLUtil--Components for working with XML (Component)
>
> I am +1 on the components, as they fit within our charter--as long as
> those components are stable and ready for a release. I am also +1 on
> the XFC package for ECM to Fortress migrations. That project does fit
> within the boundaries of the Avalon project as a necessary utility.
>
> I am -0.5 on all the other utility code because I have not (1) worked
> with them, and I personally don't want to support them, and (2) they
> are generic enough utilities to be placed outside of the Avalon project
> and garner more support.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
--
Stephen J. McConnell
mailto:mcconnell@apache.org
http://www.osm.net
Sent via James running under Merlin as an NT service.
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 02:48, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> XFC
Migrate it into fortress if it is to be released.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch>.
I'd prefer if xmlutil and sourceresolve, for example, didn't migrate
back to Cocoon. I plan to use them in FOP once I can finally concentrate
on avalonizing FOP. Maybe it's time to create an Avalon Commons in the
spirit of Jakarta Commons to maintain general components like these if
you want to kick it out of Excalibur. Just my thoughts...
On 16.04.2003 03:00:16 Peter Donald wrote:
> xmlutil/sourceresolve/store should all be migrated back into the cocoon
> project as that is where they belong, have a community and will be
> maintained.
Jeremias Maerki
FOP committer, long-time Avalon lurker
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Peter Donald wrote:
>On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:14, Stephen McConnell wrote:
>
>
>>Should I infer that you intend to remove code from CVS at your
>>discretion in accordance with your grand plan?
>>
>>
>
>I proposed it and the only objector was Leo Sutic and he only objected to
>naming moving out (which I don't think he is really concerned with anymore).
>
Look - I don't recall any such proposal.
I don't appreciate you approach on this and I would appreciate it if you
would simply put it back and an open disucssion on it. Are you going to
do this or do I have escalate it?
--
Stephen J. McConnell
mailto:mcconnell@apache.org
http://www.osm.net
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:14, Stephen McConnell wrote:
> So long as the integrity of an Avalon project is impacted by the
> integrity of the underlying utilities we deliver, these utilities surely
> must remain within the scope and concern of this community.
what does this have to do with releasing extension?
We already rely on external products (some external to apache and some not).
Except for reliance on xdoclet I don't recall this lowering the quality of
anything here.
> Should I infer that you intend to remove code from CVS at your
> discretion in accordance with your grand plan?
I proposed it and the only objector was Leo Sutic and he only objected to
naming moving out (which I don't think he is really concerned with anymore).
> On the subject of pushing and shoving - I noticed that you failed to
> respond to my request to place back into CVS the Excalibur threadcontect
> package pending a proposal from yourself to this forum.
if you want to maintain it then feel free to add it back in though please do
it in sandbox CVS. The code is unused and unmaintained and I don't intend to
to waste time supporting it.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Peter Donald wrote:
>On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 09:54, Stephen McConnell wrote:
>
>>Peter Donald wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 02:48, Berin Loritsch wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Extension
>>>>
>>>>
>>>not a stable API so probably should not be released. Probbaly will
>>>eventually get migrated out.
>>>
>>>
>>I disagree with you conclusion.
>>
>
>Avalon is not doing utility code anymore. It is util code.
>
Your position is very absolute!
Utility code here is Avalon is perfectly ok - a question arises when and
if there it is considered that the utility code we need (such as
threads, logkit, excalibur logger, etc. etc.) has greater potential
outside of Avalon than within. Where the potential exists for broader
and more comprehensive community outside of Avalon, then the case is
clear. For example - the commons CLI initiative is a clear path for
migration for the development related to Excalibur CLI. On the other
hand, we cannot say the say thing about he extension package. There is
not a clear alternative and in addition there are dependencies here
within Avalon with respect to the Merlin project.
So long as the integrity of an Avalon project is impacted by the
integrity of the underlying utilities we deliver, these utilities surely
must remain within the scope and concern of this community.
>>why do you think it should not be released as is?
>>
>>
>
>backwards compatibility will not be maintained. I am the only maintainer for
>code.
>
A small correction if I may. You were the only maintainer of the code.
That scenario is not longer correct.
>>Just for reference - do you have any other "decoupling" plans?
>>
>>
>
>The list of util code I will be moving out has been sent to this list a couple
>of times in the past. Look in the archives.
>
Should I infer that you intend to remove code from CVS at your
discretion in accordance with your grand plan? Perhaps you familiar
with the phrase "unilateral"? It is a word that implies a decision that
is taken without consultation. Given current geopolitical events one
could draw a comparison - but let's not dwell on such a scenario ;-).
Instead - on a more practical platform - yes - you did put forward an
opinion. From memory those opinions did not capture the enthusiasm nor
broad-spectrum support from this community.
Clearly, one cannot consider your prior comments to be in any way
representative. Naturally, I remain open to further more concrete
proposals from yourself on the "grand plan".
>
>As to the rest. Anything that is not maintained by the whole of Avalon or at
>least a significant portion I will push to migrate out.
>
On the subject of pushing and shoving - I noticed that you failed to
respond to my request to place back into CVS the Excalibur threadcontect
package pending a proposal from yourself to this forum. I presume that
his was a temporary oversight (cut-and-paste) and that a proposal is
forthcoming?
>Berin has already
>indicated that he is going to migrate event to SEDAv2 or something?
>Datasource should also migrate out and I think Berin wanted that but he was
>not the sole author so whoever else has contributed to it (Leif?, Leo?) will
>need to decide where it is to go.
>
>xmlutil/sourceresolve/store should all be migrated back into the cocoon
>project as that is where they belong, have a community and will be
>maintained.
>
>pool gets deprecated and eventually axed from excalibur.
>
On each of the above - I will look forward to a proposal from yourself
or others outlining the benefits to the Avalon community. While there
is clearly scope for restructuring, and the potential for positive and
constructive actions by this community to support migration - such
actions surely must me undertaken only if there is a demonstrable
added-value to this community.
Personally, and I'm sure that you will agree with me, the principal of
adding value back to the Avalon community is more important than one's
personal agenda.
Cheers, Steve.
--
Stephen J. McConnell
mailto:mcconnell@apache.org
http://www.osm.net
Sent via James running under Merlin as an NT service.
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 09:54, Stephen McConnell wrote:
> Peter Donald wrote:
> >On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 02:48, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> >>Extension
> >
> >not a stable API so probably should not be released. Probbaly will
> > eventually get migrated out.
>
> I disagree with you conclusion.
Avalon is not doing utility code anymore. It is util code.
> why do you think it should not be released as is?
backwards compatibility will not be maintained. I am the only maintainer for
code.
> Just for reference - do you have any other "decoupling" plans?
The list of util code I will be moving out has been sent to this list a couple
of times in the past. Look in the archives.
As to the rest. Anything that is not maintained by the whole of Avalon or at
least a significant portion I will push to migrate out. Berin has already
indicated that he is going to migrate event to SEDAv2 or something?
Datasource should also migrate out and I think Berin wanted that but he was
not the sole author so whoever else has contributed to it (Leif?, Leo?) will
need to decide where it is to go.
xmlutil/sourceresolve/store should all be migrated back into the cocoon
project as that is where they belong, have a community and will be
maintained.
pool gets deprecated and eventually axed from excalibur.
logger/monitor/thread may/may not stay depending on how well they are
maintained but as it stands things don't look great for them.
instrument I would like to keep here but ultimately it is up to the authors of
it.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
-----------------------------------------------
"You can't depend on your eyes when your
imagination is out of focus." -Mark Twain
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Peter Donald wrote:
>On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 02:48, Berin Loritsch wrote:
>
>
>>Extension
>>
>
>not a stable API so probably should not be released. Probbaly will eventually
>get migrated out.
>
I disagree with you conclusion.
Its working well - no problems - does what it should. You have said on
earlier occasions that the implementation is not suitable to the
hundreds of extensions scenario. I'm not particularly interested in the
multiple 100s scenario. So relative to existing usage in "real-world"
applications (10s to about 100 extensions tops) - why do you think it
should not be released as is?
>>ThreadContext
>>
>
>no longer exists.
>
That remains to be discussed. In an earlier email you proposed
decoupling from excalibur thread - not removal from the excalibur project.
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=avalon-dev&m=105002557427754&w=2
Just for reference - do you have any other "decoupling" plans? Please
keep in mind that I'm open to the subject of removing threadcontext from
Excalibur - but I'm also open to the subject of keeping it. I suggest
you put it back into Excalibur then make a proposal.
Cheeers, Steve.
--
Stephen J. McConnell
mailto:mcconnell@apache.org
http://www.osm.net
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 02:48, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> Extension
not a stable API so probably should not be released. Probbaly will eventually
get migrated out.
> Loader
should be zapped as no longer supported.
> Policy
will be moved out so should not be released.
> ThreadContext
no longer exists.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
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Re: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Leo Sutic wrote:
>>From: Berin Loritsch [mailto:bloritsch@apache.org]
>>
>>Compatibility (with the inclusion of Naming)
>>-N-a-m-i-n-g- (incorporated in Compatibility)
>
>
> Oops. Should have pushed naming into compat before the release,
> to a avoid a re-release.
That's OK. Our users will understand that there are no
"bug fix releases", and so each release means on less supported
project.
--
"You know the world is going crazy when the best
rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy,
The Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is
accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want
to go to war. And the 3 most powerful men in America
are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon' (sic)".
-----Chris Rock
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RE: Excalibur Phase III List
Posted by Leo Sutic <le...@inspireinfrastructure.com>.
> From: Berin Loritsch [mailto:bloritsch@apache.org]
>
> Compatibility (with the inclusion of Naming)
> -N-a-m-i-n-g- (incorporated in Compatibility)
Oops. Should have pushed naming into compat before the release,
to a avoid a re-release.
/LS
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