Inactive PMC members

[Curt Arnold <ca...@apache.org>]

The current Logging Service bylaws (http://logging.apache.org/site/ 
bylaws.html) provides for a status of "emeritus" PMC member if a  
member has not contributed to the project in 6 months.  The ASF  
bylaws (http://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html) don't address  
"emeritus" PMC members.  The PMC is charged with "active management  
of one or more projects" and it is hard to reconcile an inactive  
member of an committee charged with "active management".  The ASF  
bylaws establish that the PMC is a creation of the board and the  
board has control over the PMC membership.  Any role the PMC on its  
own membership is strictly advisory, the board can add or remove  
members without consultation with the PMC (though I'm sure it would  
do so only under extreme conditions).

All that was to preface a review of the PMC membership and their  
recent contributions to the project.  The following PMC members  
appear to have exceeded at 6 month without a post in the mailing lists:

Michael Catanzarati: Last posting on log4cxx-dev on 2004-11-04
Christophe de Vienne: Last posting on log4cxx-dev on 2005-05-16
Marco Vassura: Last posting on log4php-dev on 2006-01-25
Mark Womack: Last posting on log4j-dev on 2006-02-07

Ceki Gulcu still occasionally posts on the mailing lists but has not  
contributed code since starting SLF4J.org and the logback project.

I'm going to send each an email stating their apparent inactivity and  
asking them to make a statement on this mailing list regarding their  
status.  Obviously, the project would benefit from their leadership.   
However, if they do not anticipate participating in the management of  
the project, then deep thanks for their contribution and an exit from  
the PMC would be in order.

Re: Inactive PMC members

[Curt Arnold <ca...@apache.org>]

On Feb 8, 2007, at 3:18 PM, Ceki Gülcü wrote:

>
> Michael Catanzarati is the founder of the log4cxx project. Marco
> Vassura is the founder of log4php. Mark Womack served as the previous
> chair of LS. I am the founder of log4j as well as the Logging Services
> project.
>
> Do you think excluding the above listed persons will serve the best
> interests of the Logging Services project?

Changing the bylaws requires 2/3 majority of active PMC members.   
Graduating log4net from the incubator may take 2/3 majority if you  
consider it "adoption of a new codebase".  Since there are currently  
12 PMC members, the missing 4 would be sufficient to block all but  
unanimous decisions from the other PMC members when a vote requires  
2/3 majority.  As a PMC member, they should be monitoring this  
mailing list and I have sent them an individual email to request that  
they update this mailing list on their status and inform them that  
there may be upcoming votes that require their participation.  I  
would not want to declare them emeritus for procedural reasons  
without giving them ample opportunity to make their presence known.


>
> I'd would also like to remind you that I recently nominated a
> well-respected and longtime contributor to the log4j project as a
> committer only to be (regrettably) blocked for using the
> "wrong" mailing list.
>
> The log4j project lost an opportunity to add a valuable contributor to
> its list of committers. Of course, you could still put your weight
> behind that nomination. (It's not too late.)
>

I assume that you are discussing the discussion on  
private@logging.apache.org on 2006-10-25 and following.  I can't  
quote your message from the private list, but my response was:

>
> I haven't found the email that described to migration away from  
> pmc@ mailing lists to private@ mailing lists, but I believe the  
> general idea was private@ should only be used when the discussion  
> required confidentiality.  Voting on a new committer or PMC member  
> might be a little sensitive, but you'd want to have a public record  
> of the vote and so it should be on one of the publicly archived  
> mailing lists.  Also, if a person does not have a history of  
> submitting patches that would allow us to judge his code-fu, but  
> you believe that he can contribute to project governance, then  
> possibly voting on him as a PMC member makes more sense (which  
> would occur on the general@logging mailing list).
>
> Let's move this discussion to general@logging.apache.org if you  
> wish to talk about process or call a vote on PMC membership or  
> log4j-dev@logging.apache.org if you wish to call a vote for log4j  
> commit rights.  If there are reasons that you believe this should  
> remain confidential, discussion can remain here or better, be held  
> on the general mailing lists but with specific names avoided.


http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#mailing-list-naming-policy use of  
the private mailing list and specifically mention that "nominees for  
project, project committee or Foundation membership" can be held on  
private@logging.apache.org.  I did not have that link at the time and  
was recalling on just a general impression that private@ should  
rarely be used.

The LS bylaws state that a new committer is voted on my the active  
members of the relevant sub-project and as private@ is only available  
to PMC members it can't be a forum for a subproject vote without  
excluding non-PMC committers.  It does appear that you could nominate  
an individual as a PMC member on private@ and hold all the  
conversation about the individual on the private list.

Re: Inactive PMC members

[Ceki Gülcü <ce...@qos.ch>]

Michael Catanzarati is the founder of the log4cxx project. Marco
Vassura is the founder of log4php. Mark Womack served as the previous
chair of LS. I am the founder of log4j as well as the Logging Services
project.

Do you think excluding the above listed persons will serve the best
interests of the Logging Services project?

I'd would also like to remind you that I recently nominated a
well-respected and longtime contributor to the log4j project as a
committer only to be (regrettably) blocked for using the
"wrong" mailing list.

The log4j project lost an opportunity to add a valuable contributor to
its list of committers. Of course, you could still put your weight
behind that nomination. (It's not too late.)

At 09:44 PM 2/8/2007, Curt Arnold wrote:
>The current Logging Service bylaws (http://logging.apache.org/site/ 
>bylaws.html) provides for a status of "emeritus" PMC member if a
>member has not contributed to the project in 6 months.  The ASF
>bylaws (http://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html) don't address
>"emeritus" PMC members.  The PMC is charged with "active management
>of one or more projects" and it is hard to reconcile an inactive
>member of an committee charged with "active management".  The ASF
>bylaws establish that the PMC is a creation of the board and the
>board has control over the PMC membership.  Any role the PMC on its
>own membership is strictly advisory, the board can add or remove
>members without consultation with the PMC (though I'm sure it would
>do so only under extreme conditions).
>
>All that was to preface a review of the PMC membership and their
>recent contributions to the project.  The following PMC members
>appear to have exceeded at 6 month without a post in the mailing lists:
>
>Michael Catanzarati: Last posting on log4cxx-dev on 2004-11-04
>Christophe de Vienne: Last posting on log4cxx-dev on 2005-05-16
>Marco Vassura: Last posting on log4php-dev on 2006-01-25
>Mark Womack: Last posting on log4j-dev on 2006-02-07
>
>Ceki Gulcu still occasionally posts on the mailing lists but has not
>contributed code since starting SLF4J.org and the logback project.
>
>I'm going to send each an email stating their apparent inactivity and
>asking them to make a statement on this mailing list regarding their
>status.  Obviously, the project would benefit from their leadership.
>However, if they do not anticipate participating in the management of
>the project, then deep thanks for their contribution and an exit from
>the PMC would be in order.

-- 
Ceki Gülcü
Logback: The reliable, generic, fast and flexible logging framework for Java.
http://logback.qos.ch