support on phonegap/cordova?

[smo <s....@gmail.com>]

hi

where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?

thanks

Re: support on phonegap/cordova?

[Michal Mocny <mm...@chromium.org>]

Stack Overflow has the ability to subscribe to a tag, and you can change
the frequency with which the digest is delivered.


On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Terence M. Bandoian <te...@tmbsw.com>wrote:

> One nice thing about a mailing list is that it is delivered.  The digest
> form provides an uncluttered, passive means to stay aware of issues and
> contribute when appropriate.
>
> I'm still new to this list but would like to listen in to the hangout if
> that's possible.  How would I find it on Google Hangout?
>
> -Terence Bandoian
>
>
>
> On 4/15/2014 9:31 AM, Lisa Seacat DeLuca wrote:
>
>> Michal +1.
>>
>> 1. Create a user@ group that we use to encourage users to post questions
>> on SO.
>> 2. Update website to remove reference to PhoneGap Google Group and
>> include reference to the user@ mailing list
>> 3. remove the IRC #phonegap reference as well
>>
>> Is everyone in agreement on this?  Do we need to add an item to our
>> hangout agenda today to discuss further?
>>
>>
>>
>> Lisa Seacat DeLuca
>> Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | _ldeluca@apache.org_ <mailto:
>> ldeluca@apache.org>| | _ldeluca@us.ibm.com_ <ma...@us.ibm.com>|
>> _lisaseacat.com_ <http://www.lisaseacat.com/>| follow @LisaSeacat on
>> twitter <www.twitter.com/LisaSeacat>| follow Lisa Seacat DeLuca on
>> linkedin <http://www.linkedin.com/in/lisaseacat>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Michal Mocny <mm...@chromium.org>
>> To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
>> Date: 04/15/2014 09:50 AM
>> Subject: Re: support on phonegap/cordova?
>> Sent by: mmocny@google.com
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> So first: we don't *have* have to have users@ list.  This isn't about
>> "apache way" at all, this is in response to several user inquiries asking
>> for a user list to point them to.
>>
>> Seems no one is looking forward to more email, but I'd be satisfied to
>> have
>> a users@ list from which we direct people over to SO, since some people
>> don't yet know about SO and/or expect a mailing list when they go looking.
>>
>> The most important action item I think is to update the website, since
>> right now we only list the dev, commits, and issues mailing lists listed,
>> and a small note about the phonegap forum for user questions (and that was
>> hard to find without grep-ing).
>>
>> -Michal
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 8:06 AM, Mike Billau <mi...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I think that between a users@ mailing list, a google group, an IRC
>> room,
>> > and StackOverflow, the best medium we can use to support our users is
>> > StackOverflow. Joe makes great points about the benefits that
>> StackOverflow
>> > gives us that I don't see the other mediums providing. Sure the GG may
>> be
>> > searchable but not nearly as well as SO. Also, there are already a lot
>> of
>> > Cordova users helping each other out on SO (only 4 of the top 20
>> > "answerers" are on this list [1]) SO also will automatically switch
>> > "phonegap" to "cordova" tag but still allow things like
>> "phonegap-build" or
>> > "phonegap-enterprise" or whatever - nothing against phonegap, this just
>> > seems to be more inline with the "Apache Way" and would help Adobe
>> support
>> > find relevant issues to them while letting the the overall community
>> work
>> > on the more general support questions.
>> >
>> > If we have to have a users@, so be it, but we should make it a point to
>> > answer all questions there with a link to the relevant Stack Overflow
>> > answer. I think we should also be doing this on the google group too,
>> but
>> > I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been.
>> >
>> > Finally I know there is a lot of push back about "getting rid of /
>> > encouraging less use of" the google group because a lot of people use it
>> > and apparently get a lot of their issues fixed, however it seems like
>> > either the majority of the questions never get answered, or they get
>> > answered by a few users. We should maybe reach out to these power users
>> and
>> > explain to them the motivation behind trying to move all support off
>> the GG
>> > and into SO and encourage them to help with this transition.
>> >
>> > [1] http://stackoverflow.com/tags/cordova/topusers
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > The reasons I prefer stack overflow to users lists are as follows:
>> > >
>> > > 1. Most of our users aren't skilled enough to get on or off of a users
>> > list
>> > > 2. Stack Overflow's structure keeps things more professional than the
>> > > mailing list.  Personal attacks get downvoted on SO
>> > > 3. Stack Overflow has better searchibility than a users list.
>> > >
>> > > If we have to have one because of the much loathed "Apache Way", so be
>> > > it, but I don't see it being nearly as helpful as SO.
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > Most Apache projects have a users@ list for this purpose. Although
>> SO
>> > > often
>> > > > yields better answers, I don't think it would hurt to have a
>> > users@list.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:09 AM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> This is a dev list, not a support list. I would recommend
>> > StackOverflow.
>> > > >>  On Apr 9, 2014 3:16 PM, "Andrew Grieve" <ag...@chromium.org>
>> > wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> > StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible but
>> in
>> > the
>> > > >> > framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > > I'd use the Google Group:
>> > > >> > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap <
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/phonegap>
>>
>> > > >> > > ________________________________________
>> > > >> > > From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
>> > > >> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
>> > > >> > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
>> > > >> > > Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > hi
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > thanks
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova?

[Shazron <sh...@gmail.com>]

+1 to Michael Brook's proposal.
Definitely I'm all for SO vs a users@ mailing list


On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Michael Brooks
<mi...@michaelbrooks.ca>wrote:

> I agree, PhoneGap references do not belong in Apache Cordova.
>
> I think it's safe to remove website links to:
> - the PhoneGap Google Groups
> - the PhoneGap IRC channel
>
> We should update the Cordova website with links to:
> - StackOverflow Cordova tag
> - #cordova IRC channel
>
> Do not:
> - do not keep the PhoneGap Google Groups link for old solutions - Google
> has this indexed for anyone searching.
> - do not create a users@ mailing list - make it earn it's place;
> StackOverflow has already done this.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 10:52 AM, Andrew Grieve <agrieve@chromium.org
> >wrote:
>
> > stay tuned on the ML thread with subject "Hangout Today @ 4:00 EST". I
> > will post the link there once we're set up.
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Terence M. Bandoian <te...@tmbsw.com>
> > wrote:
> > > One nice thing about a mailing list is that it is delivered.  The
> digest
> > > form provides an uncluttered, passive means to stay aware of issues and
> > > contribute when appropriate.
> > >
> > > I'm still new to this list but would like to listen in to the hangout
> if
> > > that's possible.  How would I find it on Google Hangout?
> > >
> > > -Terence Bandoian
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 4/15/2014 9:31 AM, Lisa Seacat DeLuca wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Michal +1.
> > >>
> > >> 1. Create a user@ group that we use to encourage users to post
> > questions
> > >> on SO.
> > >> 2. Update website to remove reference to PhoneGap Google Group and
> > include
> > >> reference to the user@ mailing list
> > >> 3. remove the IRC #phonegap reference as well
> > >>
> > >> Is everyone in agreement on this?  Do we need to add an item to our
> > >> hangout agenda today to discuss further?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Lisa Seacat DeLuca
> > >> Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | _ldeluca@apache.org_
> > >> <ma...@apache.org>| | _ldeluca@us.ibm.com_
> > >> <ma...@us.ibm.com>| _lisaseacat.com_ <
> > http://www.lisaseacat.com/>|
> > >> follow @LisaSeacat on twitter <www.twitter.com/LisaSeacat>| follow
> Lisa
> > >> Seacat DeLuca on linkedin <http://www.linkedin.com/in/lisaseacat>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> From: Michal Mocny <mm...@chromium.org>
> > >> To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> > >> Date: 04/15/2014 09:50 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: support on phonegap/cordova?
> > >> Sent by: mmocny@google.com
> > >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> So first: we don't *have* have to have users@ list.  This isn't about
> > >> "apache way" at all, this is in response to several user inquiries
> > asking
> > >> for a user list to point them to.
> > >>
> > >> Seems no one is looking forward to more email, but I'd be satisfied to
> > >> have
> > >> a users@ list from which we direct people over to SO, since some
> people
> > >> don't yet know about SO and/or expect a mailing list when they go
> > looking.
> > >>
> > >> The most important action item I think is to update the website, since
> > >> right now we only list the dev, commits, and issues mailing lists
> > listed,
> > >> and a small note about the phonegap forum for user questions (and that
> > was
> > >> hard to find without grep-ing).
> > >>
> > >> -Michal
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 8:06 AM, Mike Billau <mi...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > I think that between a users@ mailing list, a google group, an IRC
> > room,
> > >> > and StackOverflow, the best medium we can use to support our users
> is
> > >> > StackOverflow. Joe makes great points about the benefits that
> > >> > StackOverflow
> > >> > gives us that I don't see the other mediums providing. Sure the GG
> may
> > >> > be
> > >> > searchable but not nearly as well as SO. Also, there are already a
> lot
> > >> > of
> > >> > Cordova users helping each other out on SO (only 4 of the top 20
> > >> > "answerers" are on this list [1]) SO also will automatically switch
> > >> > "phonegap" to "cordova" tag but still allow things like
> > "phonegap-build"
> > >> > or
> > >> > "phonegap-enterprise" or whatever - nothing against phonegap, this
> > just
> > >> > seems to be more inline with the "Apache Way" and would help Adobe
> > >> > support
> > >> > find relevant issues to them while letting the the overall community
> > >> > work
> > >> > on the more general support questions.
> > >> >
> > >> > If we have to have a users@, so be it, but we should make it a
> point
> > to
> > >> > answer all questions there with a link to the relevant Stack
> Overflow
> > >> > answer. I think we should also be doing this on the google group
> too,
> > >> > but
> > >> > I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been.
> > >> >
> > >> > Finally I know there is a lot of push back about "getting rid of /
> > >> > encouraging less use of" the google group because a lot of people
> use
> > it
> > >> > and apparently get a lot of their issues fixed, however it seems
> like
> > >> > either the majority of the questions never get answered, or they get
> > >> > answered by a few users. We should maybe reach out to these power
> > users
> > >> > and
> > >> > explain to them the motivation behind trying to move all support off
> > the
> > >> > GG
> > >> > and into SO and encourage them to help with this transition.
> > >> >
> > >> > [1] http://stackoverflow.com/tags/cordova/topusers
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > The reasons I prefer stack overflow to users lists are as follows:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > 1. Most of our users aren't skilled enough to get on or off of a
> > users
> > >> > list
> > >> > > 2. Stack Overflow's structure keeps things more professional than
> > the
> > >> > > mailing list.  Personal attacks get downvoted on SO
> > >> > > 3. Stack Overflow has better searchibility than a users list.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > If we have to have one because of the much loathed "Apache Way",
> so
> > be
> > >> > > it, but I don't see it being nearly as helpful as SO.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Grieve <
> > agrieve@chromium.org>
> > >> > > wrote:
> > >> > > > Most Apache projects have a users@ list for this purpose.
> > Although
> > >> > > > SO
> > >> > > often
> > >> > > > yields better answers, I don't think it would hurt to have a
> > >> > users@list.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:09 AM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com>
> > >> > > > wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >> This is a dev list, not a support list. I would recommend
> > >> > StackOverflow.
> > >> > > >>  On Apr 9, 2014 3:16 PM, "Andrew Grieve" <agrieve@chromium.org
> >
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> > StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible
> but
> > >> > > >> > in
> > >> > the
> > >> > > >> > framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)
> > >> > > >> >
> > >> > > >> >
> > >> > > >> > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <
> raycamde@adobe.com
> > >
> > >> > > wrote:
> > >> > > >> >
> > >> > > >> > > I'd use the Google Group:
> > >> > > >> > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
> > >> > > >> > <https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/phonegap>
> > >>
> > >> > > >> > > ________________________________________
> > >> > > >> > > From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
> > >> > > >> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
> > >> > > >> > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> > >> > > >> > > Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
> > >> > > >> > >
> > >> > > >> > > hi
> > >> > > >> > >
> > >> > > >> > > where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
> > >> > > >> > >
> > >> > > >> > > thanks
> > >> > > >> > >
> > >> > > >> > >
> > >> > > >> >
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> >
>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova?

[Michael Brooks <mi...@michaelbrooks.ca>]

I agree, PhoneGap references do not belong in Apache Cordova.

I think it's safe to remove website links to:
- the PhoneGap Google Groups
- the PhoneGap IRC channel

We should update the Cordova website with links to:
- StackOverflow Cordova tag
- #cordova IRC channel

Do not:
- do not keep the PhoneGap Google Groups link for old solutions - Google
has this indexed for anyone searching.
- do not create a users@ mailing list - make it earn it's place;
StackOverflow has already done this.

Michael



On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 10:52 AM, Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>wrote:

> stay tuned on the ML thread with subject "Hangout Today @ 4:00 EST". I
> will post the link there once we're set up.
>
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Terence M. Bandoian <te...@tmbsw.com>
> wrote:
> > One nice thing about a mailing list is that it is delivered.  The digest
> > form provides an uncluttered, passive means to stay aware of issues and
> > contribute when appropriate.
> >
> > I'm still new to this list but would like to listen in to the hangout if
> > that's possible.  How would I find it on Google Hangout?
> >
> > -Terence Bandoian
> >
> >
> >
> > On 4/15/2014 9:31 AM, Lisa Seacat DeLuca wrote:
> >>
> >> Michal +1.
> >>
> >> 1. Create a user@ group that we use to encourage users to post
> questions
> >> on SO.
> >> 2. Update website to remove reference to PhoneGap Google Group and
> include
> >> reference to the user@ mailing list
> >> 3. remove the IRC #phonegap reference as well
> >>
> >> Is everyone in agreement on this?  Do we need to add an item to our
> >> hangout agenda today to discuss further?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Lisa Seacat DeLuca
> >> Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | _ldeluca@apache.org_
> >> <ma...@apache.org>| | _ldeluca@us.ibm.com_
> >> <ma...@us.ibm.com>| _lisaseacat.com_ <
> http://www.lisaseacat.com/>|
> >> follow @LisaSeacat on twitter <www.twitter.com/LisaSeacat>| follow Lisa
> >> Seacat DeLuca on linkedin <http://www.linkedin.com/in/lisaseacat>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Michal Mocny <mm...@chromium.org>
> >> To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> >> Date: 04/15/2014 09:50 AM
> >> Subject: Re: support on phonegap/cordova?
> >> Sent by: mmocny@google.com
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So first: we don't *have* have to have users@ list.  This isn't about
> >> "apache way" at all, this is in response to several user inquiries
> asking
> >> for a user list to point them to.
> >>
> >> Seems no one is looking forward to more email, but I'd be satisfied to
> >> have
> >> a users@ list from which we direct people over to SO, since some people
> >> don't yet know about SO and/or expect a mailing list when they go
> looking.
> >>
> >> The most important action item I think is to update the website, since
> >> right now we only list the dev, commits, and issues mailing lists
> listed,
> >> and a small note about the phonegap forum for user questions (and that
> was
> >> hard to find without grep-ing).
> >>
> >> -Michal
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 8:06 AM, Mike Billau <mi...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I think that between a users@ mailing list, a google group, an IRC
> room,
> >> > and StackOverflow, the best medium we can use to support our users is
> >> > StackOverflow. Joe makes great points about the benefits that
> >> > StackOverflow
> >> > gives us that I don't see the other mediums providing. Sure the GG may
> >> > be
> >> > searchable but not nearly as well as SO. Also, there are already a lot
> >> > of
> >> > Cordova users helping each other out on SO (only 4 of the top 20
> >> > "answerers" are on this list [1]) SO also will automatically switch
> >> > "phonegap" to "cordova" tag but still allow things like
> "phonegap-build"
> >> > or
> >> > "phonegap-enterprise" or whatever - nothing against phonegap, this
> just
> >> > seems to be more inline with the "Apache Way" and would help Adobe
> >> > support
> >> > find relevant issues to them while letting the the overall community
> >> > work
> >> > on the more general support questions.
> >> >
> >> > If we have to have a users@, so be it, but we should make it a point
> to
> >> > answer all questions there with a link to the relevant Stack Overflow
> >> > answer. I think we should also be doing this on the google group too,
> >> > but
> >> > I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been.
> >> >
> >> > Finally I know there is a lot of push back about "getting rid of /
> >> > encouraging less use of" the google group because a lot of people use
> it
> >> > and apparently get a lot of their issues fixed, however it seems like
> >> > either the majority of the questions never get answered, or they get
> >> > answered by a few users. We should maybe reach out to these power
> users
> >> > and
> >> > explain to them the motivation behind trying to move all support off
> the
> >> > GG
> >> > and into SO and encourage them to help with this transition.
> >> >
> >> > [1] http://stackoverflow.com/tags/cordova/topusers
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > The reasons I prefer stack overflow to users lists are as follows:
> >> > >
> >> > > 1. Most of our users aren't skilled enough to get on or off of a
> users
> >> > list
> >> > > 2. Stack Overflow's structure keeps things more professional than
> the
> >> > > mailing list.  Personal attacks get downvoted on SO
> >> > > 3. Stack Overflow has better searchibility than a users list.
> >> > >
> >> > > If we have to have one because of the much loathed "Apache Way", so
> be
> >> > > it, but I don't see it being nearly as helpful as SO.
> >> > >
> >> > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Grieve <
> agrieve@chromium.org>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > > Most Apache projects have a users@ list for this purpose.
> Although
> >> > > > SO
> >> > > often
> >> > > > yields better answers, I don't think it would hurt to have a
> >> > users@list.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:09 AM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com>
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> This is a dev list, not a support list. I would recommend
> >> > StackOverflow.
> >> > > >>  On Apr 9, 2014 3:16 PM, "Andrew Grieve" <ag...@chromium.org>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> > StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible but
> >> > > >> > in
> >> > the
> >> > > >> > framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <raycamde@adobe.com
> >
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > > I'd use the Google Group:
> >> > > >> > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
> >> > > >> > <https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/phonegap>
> >>
> >> > > >> > > ________________________________________
> >> > > >> > > From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
> >> > > >> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
> >> > > >> > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> >> > > >> > > Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
> >> > > >> > >
> >> > > >> > > hi
> >> > > >> > >
> >> > > >> > > where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
> >> > > >> > >
> >> > > >> > > thanks
> >> > > >> > >
> >> > > >> > >
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >>
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova?

[Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>]

stay tuned on the ML thread with subject "Hangout Today @ 4:00 EST". I
will post the link there once we're set up.

On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Terence M. Bandoian <te...@tmbsw.com> wrote:
> One nice thing about a mailing list is that it is delivered.  The digest
> form provides an uncluttered, passive means to stay aware of issues and
> contribute when appropriate.
>
> I'm still new to this list but would like to listen in to the hangout if
> that's possible.  How would I find it on Google Hangout?
>
> -Terence Bandoian
>
>
>
> On 4/15/2014 9:31 AM, Lisa Seacat DeLuca wrote:
>>
>> Michal +1.
>>
>> 1. Create a user@ group that we use to encourage users to post questions
>> on SO.
>> 2. Update website to remove reference to PhoneGap Google Group and include
>> reference to the user@ mailing list
>> 3. remove the IRC #phonegap reference as well
>>
>> Is everyone in agreement on this?  Do we need to add an item to our
>> hangout agenda today to discuss further?
>>
>>
>>
>> Lisa Seacat DeLuca
>> Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | _ldeluca@apache.org_
>> <ma...@apache.org>| | _ldeluca@us.ibm.com_
>> <ma...@us.ibm.com>| _lisaseacat.com_ <http://www.lisaseacat.com/>|
>> follow @LisaSeacat on twitter <www.twitter.com/LisaSeacat>| follow Lisa
>> Seacat DeLuca on linkedin <http://www.linkedin.com/in/lisaseacat>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Michal Mocny <mm...@chromium.org>
>> To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
>> Date: 04/15/2014 09:50 AM
>> Subject: Re: support on phonegap/cordova?
>> Sent by: mmocny@google.com
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> So first: we don't *have* have to have users@ list.  This isn't about
>> "apache way" at all, this is in response to several user inquiries asking
>> for a user list to point them to.
>>
>> Seems no one is looking forward to more email, but I'd be satisfied to
>> have
>> a users@ list from which we direct people over to SO, since some people
>> don't yet know about SO and/or expect a mailing list when they go looking.
>>
>> The most important action item I think is to update the website, since
>> right now we only list the dev, commits, and issues mailing lists listed,
>> and a small note about the phonegap forum for user questions (and that was
>> hard to find without grep-ing).
>>
>> -Michal
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 8:06 AM, Mike Billau <mi...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I think that between a users@ mailing list, a google group, an IRC room,
>> > and StackOverflow, the best medium we can use to support our users is
>> > StackOverflow. Joe makes great points about the benefits that
>> > StackOverflow
>> > gives us that I don't see the other mediums providing. Sure the GG may
>> > be
>> > searchable but not nearly as well as SO. Also, there are already a lot
>> > of
>> > Cordova users helping each other out on SO (only 4 of the top 20
>> > "answerers" are on this list [1]) SO also will automatically switch
>> > "phonegap" to "cordova" tag but still allow things like "phonegap-build"
>> > or
>> > "phonegap-enterprise" or whatever - nothing against phonegap, this just
>> > seems to be more inline with the "Apache Way" and would help Adobe
>> > support
>> > find relevant issues to them while letting the the overall community
>> > work
>> > on the more general support questions.
>> >
>> > If we have to have a users@, so be it, but we should make it a point to
>> > answer all questions there with a link to the relevant Stack Overflow
>> > answer. I think we should also be doing this on the google group too,
>> > but
>> > I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been.
>> >
>> > Finally I know there is a lot of push back about "getting rid of /
>> > encouraging less use of" the google group because a lot of people use it
>> > and apparently get a lot of their issues fixed, however it seems like
>> > either the majority of the questions never get answered, or they get
>> > answered by a few users. We should maybe reach out to these power users
>> > and
>> > explain to them the motivation behind trying to move all support off the
>> > GG
>> > and into SO and encourage them to help with this transition.
>> >
>> > [1] http://stackoverflow.com/tags/cordova/topusers
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > The reasons I prefer stack overflow to users lists are as follows:
>> > >
>> > > 1. Most of our users aren't skilled enough to get on or off of a users
>> > list
>> > > 2. Stack Overflow's structure keeps things more professional than the
>> > > mailing list.  Personal attacks get downvoted on SO
>> > > 3. Stack Overflow has better searchibility than a users list.
>> > >
>> > > If we have to have one because of the much loathed "Apache Way", so be
>> > > it, but I don't see it being nearly as helpful as SO.
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > Most Apache projects have a users@ list for this purpose. Although
>> > > > SO
>> > > often
>> > > > yields better answers, I don't think it would hurt to have a
>> > users@list.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:09 AM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> This is a dev list, not a support list. I would recommend
>> > StackOverflow.
>> > > >>  On Apr 9, 2014 3:16 PM, "Andrew Grieve" <ag...@chromium.org>
>> > wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> > StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible but
>> > > >> > in
>> > the
>> > > >> > framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > > I'd use the Google Group:
>> > > >> > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
>> > > >> > <https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/phonegap>
>>
>> > > >> > > ________________________________________
>> > > >> > > From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
>> > > >> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
>> > > >> > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
>> > > >> > > Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > hi
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > thanks
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>>
>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova?

["Terence M. Bandoian" <te...@tmbsw.com>]

One nice thing about a mailing list is that it is delivered.  The digest 
form provides an uncluttered, passive means to stay aware of issues and 
contribute when appropriate.

I'm still new to this list but would like to listen in to the hangout if 
that's possible.  How would I find it on Google Hangout?

-Terence Bandoian


On 4/15/2014 9:31 AM, Lisa Seacat DeLuca wrote:
> Michal +1.
>
> 1. Create a user@ group that we use to encourage users to post 
> questions on SO.
> 2. Update website to remove reference to PhoneGap Google Group and 
> include reference to the user@ mailing list
> 3. remove the IRC #phonegap reference as well
>
> Is everyone in agreement on this?  Do we need to add an item to our 
> hangout agenda today to discuss further?
>
>
>
> Lisa Seacat DeLuca
> Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | _ldeluca@apache.org_ 
> <ma...@apache.org>| | _ldeluca@us.ibm.com_ 
> <ma...@us.ibm.com>| _lisaseacat.com_ 
> <http://www.lisaseacat.com/>| follow @LisaSeacat on twitter 
> <www.twitter.com/LisaSeacat>| follow Lisa Seacat DeLuca on linkedin 
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/lisaseacat>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Michal Mocny <mm...@chromium.org>
> To: dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> Date: 04/15/2014 09:50 AM
> Subject: Re: support on phonegap/cordova?
> Sent by: mmocny@google.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> So first: we don't *have* have to have users@ list.  This isn't about
> "apache way" at all, this is in response to several user inquiries asking
> for a user list to point them to.
>
> Seems no one is looking forward to more email, but I'd be satisfied to 
> have
> a users@ list from which we direct people over to SO, since some people
> don't yet know about SO and/or expect a mailing list when they go looking.
>
> The most important action item I think is to update the website, since
> right now we only list the dev, commits, and issues mailing lists listed,
> and a small note about the phonegap forum for user questions (and that was
> hard to find without grep-ing).
>
> -Michal
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 8:06 AM, Mike Billau <mi...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
> > I think that between a users@ mailing list, a google group, an IRC room,
> > and StackOverflow, the best medium we can use to support our users is
> > StackOverflow. Joe makes great points about the benefits that 
> StackOverflow
> > gives us that I don't see the other mediums providing. Sure the GG 
> may be
> > searchable but not nearly as well as SO. Also, there are already a 
> lot of
> > Cordova users helping each other out on SO (only 4 of the top 20
> > "answerers" are on this list [1]) SO also will automatically switch
> > "phonegap" to "cordova" tag but still allow things like 
> "phonegap-build" or
> > "phonegap-enterprise" or whatever - nothing against phonegap, this just
> > seems to be more inline with the "Apache Way" and would help Adobe 
> support
> > find relevant issues to them while letting the the overall community 
> work
> > on the more general support questions.
> >
> > If we have to have a users@, so be it, but we should make it a point to
> > answer all questions there with a link to the relevant Stack Overflow
> > answer. I think we should also be doing this on the google group 
> too, but
> > I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been.
> >
> > Finally I know there is a lot of push back about "getting rid of /
> > encouraging less use of" the google group because a lot of people use it
> > and apparently get a lot of their issues fixed, however it seems like
> > either the majority of the questions never get answered, or they get
> > answered by a few users. We should maybe reach out to these power 
> users and
> > explain to them the motivation behind trying to move all support off 
> the GG
> > and into SO and encourage them to help with this transition.
> >
> > [1] http://stackoverflow.com/tags/cordova/topusers
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The reasons I prefer stack overflow to users lists are as follows:
> > >
> > > 1. Most of our users aren't skilled enough to get on or off of a users
> > list
> > > 2. Stack Overflow's structure keeps things more professional than the
> > > mailing list.  Personal attacks get downvoted on SO
> > > 3. Stack Overflow has better searchibility than a users list.
> > >
> > > If we have to have one because of the much loathed "Apache Way", so be
> > > it, but I don't see it being nearly as helpful as SO.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Most Apache projects have a users@ list for this purpose. 
> Although SO
> > > often
> > > > yields better answers, I don't think it would hurt to have a
> > users@list.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:09 AM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> This is a dev list, not a support list. I would recommend
> > StackOverflow.
> > > >>  On Apr 9, 2014 3:16 PM, "Andrew Grieve" <ag...@chromium.org>
> > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible 
> but in
> > the
> > > >> > framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > I'd use the Google Group:
> > > >> > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap 
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/phonegap>
> > > >> > > ________________________________________
> > > >> > > From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
> > > >> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
> > > >> > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> > > >> > > Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > hi
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > thanks
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > >
> >
>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova?

[Michal Mocny <mm...@chromium.org>]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Lisa Seacat DeLuca <ld...@us.ibm.com>wrote:

> Michal +1.
>
> 1. Create a user@ group that we use to encourage users to post questions
> on SO.

Well this is the question, isn't it :)  Ian nails the root question as "How
do I get help with Cordova?" with an answer other than "You need to ask
about PhoneGap".  But we seem to all agree that SO is better than users@.
 So: I'd just start with an update the website, and see what happens.  If
we find that we really do a need an ML (hey, we haven't so far), then we
can reinvestigate.  Is that fair?


> 2. Update website to remove reference to PhoneGap Google Group and include
> reference to the user@ mailing list
>
I'd leave a reference to the existing phonegap group, for those that want
to search its history or whatnot.  We just need a general section on the
front page on how to find help/support and explain the primary source is
SO.  We could also start to try to direct traffic from the PG Group to SO,
but I leave that to those that actually moderate that list to decide.


> 3. remove the IRC #phonegap reference as well
>
I'm indifferent here.  I suspect most folks who actually know how to use
irc know how to find the channel ;) so maybe we don't need to refer to it.
 But I'm not opposed to calling out that we do have an irc channel, and I
certainly wouldn't want to split audience across #phonegap and #cordova.


>
> Is everyone in agreement on this?  Do we need to add an item to our
> hangout agenda today to discuss further?
>
May as well mention it for those who are not caught up on email.  I hope
this won't need more than 3 minutes.


>
>
>
> Lisa Seacat DeLuca
> Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | *ldeluca@apache.org*<ld...@apache.org>| |
> *ldeluca@us.ibm.com* <ld...@us.ibm.com> | *lisaseacat.com*<http://www.lisaseacat.com/>| [image:
> follow @LisaSeacat on twitter] <http://www.twitter.com/LisaSeacat>| [image:
> follow Lisa Seacat DeLuca on linkedin]<http://www.linkedin.com/in/lisaseacat>
>
>
>
>
>
> From:        Michal Mocny <mm...@chromium.org>
> To:        dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> Date:        04/15/2014 09:50 AM
> Subject:        Re: support on phonegap/cordova?
> Sent by:        mmocny@google.com
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> So first: we don't *have* have to have users@ list.  This isn't about
> "apache way" at all, this is in response to several user inquiries asking
> for a user list to point them to.
>
> Seems no one is looking forward to more email, but I'd be satisfied to have
> a users@ list from which we direct people over to SO, since some people
> don't yet know about SO and/or expect a mailing list when they go looking.
>
> The most important action item I think is to update the website, since
> right now we only list the dev, commits, and issues mailing lists listed,
> and a small note about the phonegap forum for user questions (and that was
> hard to find without grep-ing).
>
> -Michal
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 8:06 AM, Mike Billau <mi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I think that between a users@ mailing list, a google group, an IRC room,
> > and StackOverflow, the best medium we can use to support our users is
> > StackOverflow. Joe makes great points about the benefits that
> StackOverflow
> > gives us that I don't see the other mediums providing. Sure the GG may be
> > searchable but not nearly as well as SO. Also, there are already a lot of
> > Cordova users helping each other out on SO (only 4 of the top 20
> > "answerers" are on this list [1]) SO also will automatically switch
> > "phonegap" to "cordova" tag but still allow things like "phonegap-build"
> or
> > "phonegap-enterprise" or whatever - nothing against phonegap, this just
> > seems to be more inline with the "Apache Way" and would help Adobe
> support
> > find relevant issues to them while letting the the overall community work
> > on the more general support questions.
> >
> > If we have to have a users@, so be it, but we should make it a point to
> > answer all questions there with a link to the relevant Stack Overflow
> > answer. I think we should also be doing this on the google group too, but
> > I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been.
> >
> > Finally I know there is a lot of push back about "getting rid of /
> > encouraging less use of" the google group because a lot of people use it
> > and apparently get a lot of their issues fixed, however it seems like
> > either the majority of the questions never get answered, or they get
> > answered by a few users. We should maybe reach out to these power users
> and
> > explain to them the motivation behind trying to move all support off the
> GG
> > and into SO and encourage them to help with this transition.
> >
> > [1] http://stackoverflow.com/tags/cordova/topusers
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The reasons I prefer stack overflow to users lists are as follows:
> > >
> > > 1. Most of our users aren't skilled enough to get on or off of a users
> > list
> > > 2. Stack Overflow's structure keeps things more professional than the
> > > mailing list.  Personal attacks get downvoted on SO
> > > 3. Stack Overflow has better searchibility than a users list.
> > >
> > > If we have to have one because of the much loathed "Apache Way", so be
> > > it, but I don't see it being nearly as helpful as SO.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Most Apache projects have a users@ list for this purpose. Although
> SO
> > > often
> > > > yields better answers, I don't think it would hurt to have a
> > users@list.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:09 AM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> This is a dev list, not a support list. I would recommend
> > StackOverflow.
> > > >>  On Apr 9, 2014 3:16 PM, "Andrew Grieve" <ag...@chromium.org>
> > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible but in
> > the
> > > >> > framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > I'd use the Google Group:
> > > >> > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
> > > >> > > ________________________________________
> > > >> > > From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
> > > >> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
> > > >> > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> > > >> > > Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > hi
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > thanks
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > >
> >
>
>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova?

[Lisa Seacat DeLuca <ld...@us.ibm.com>]

Michal +1.

1. Create a user@ group that we use to encourage users to post questions 
on SO. 
2. Update website to remove reference to PhoneGap Google Group and include 
reference to the user@ mailing list
3. remove the IRC #phonegap reference as well

Is everyone in agreement on this?  Do we need to add an item to our 
hangout agenda today to discuss further?



Lisa Seacat DeLuca
Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | ldeluca@apache.org | | 
ldeluca@us.ibm.com | lisaseacat.com | | 





From:   Michal Mocny <mm...@chromium.org>
To:     dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
Date:   04/15/2014 09:50 AM
Subject:        Re: support on phonegap/cordova?
Sent by:        mmocny@google.com



So first: we don't *have* have to have users@ list.  This isn't about
"apache way" at all, this is in response to several user inquiries asking
for a user list to point them to.

Seems no one is looking forward to more email, but I'd be satisfied to 
have
a users@ list from which we direct people over to SO, since some people
don't yet know about SO and/or expect a mailing list when they go looking.

The most important action item I think is to update the website, since
right now we only list the dev, commits, and issues mailing lists listed,
and a small note about the phonegap forum for user questions (and that was
hard to find without grep-ing).

-Michal




On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 8:06 AM, Mike Billau <mi...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

> I think that between a users@ mailing list, a google group, an IRC room,
> and StackOverflow, the best medium we can use to support our users is
> StackOverflow. Joe makes great points about the benefits that 
StackOverflow
> gives us that I don't see the other mediums providing. Sure the GG may 
be
> searchable but not nearly as well as SO. Also, there are already a lot 
of
> Cordova users helping each other out on SO (only 4 of the top 20
> "answerers" are on this list [1]) SO also will automatically switch
> "phonegap" to "cordova" tag but still allow things like "phonegap-build" 
or
> "phonegap-enterprise" or whatever - nothing against phonegap, this just
> seems to be more inline with the "Apache Way" and would help Adobe 
support
> find relevant issues to them while letting the the overall community 
work
> on the more general support questions.
>
> If we have to have a users@, so be it, but we should make it a point to
> answer all questions there with a link to the relevant Stack Overflow
> answer. I think we should also be doing this on the google group too, 
but
> I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been.
>
> Finally I know there is a lot of push back about "getting rid of /
> encouraging less use of" the google group because a lot of people use it
> and apparently get a lot of their issues fixed, however it seems like
> either the majority of the questions never get answered, or they get
> answered by a few users. We should maybe reach out to these power users 
and
> explain to them the motivation behind trying to move all support off the 
GG
> and into SO and encourage them to help with this transition.
>
> [1] http://stackoverflow.com/tags/cordova/topusers
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The reasons I prefer stack overflow to users lists are as follows:
> >
> > 1. Most of our users aren't skilled enough to get on or off of a users
> list
> > 2. Stack Overflow's structure keeps things more professional than the
> > mailing list.  Personal attacks get downvoted on SO
> > 3. Stack Overflow has better searchibility than a users list.
> >
> > If we have to have one because of the much loathed "Apache Way", so be
> > it, but I don't see it being nearly as helpful as SO.
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>
> > wrote:
> > > Most Apache projects have a users@ list for this purpose. Although 
SO
> > often
> > > yields better answers, I don't think it would hurt to have a
> users@list.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:09 AM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> 
wrote:
> > >
> > >> This is a dev list, not a support list. I would recommend
> StackOverflow.
> > >>  On Apr 9, 2014 3:16 PM, "Andrew Grieve" <ag...@chromium.org>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible but 
in
> the
> > >> > framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > I'd use the Google Group:
> > >> > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
> > >> > > ________________________________________
> > >> > > From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
> > >> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
> > >> > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> > >> > > Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > hi
> > >> > >
> > >> > > where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > thanks
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova?

[Ian Clelland <ic...@chromium.org>]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Michal Mocny <mm...@chromium.org> wrote:

> So first: we don't *have* have to have users@ list.  This isn't about
> "apache way" at all, this is in response to several user inquiries asking
> for a user list to point them to.
>

Exactly this. Talking to ASF folks in Denver last week, there really aren't
many hard requirements on us, and a users@ list definitely isn't one of
them.

(http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ has a big list of all of the
lists that Apache projects run, and certainly not all of them have a users
list)

We talked at the conference about asking infra@ for a users list, but this
was more about the Cordova vs. PhoneGap branding, and answering the
question "How do I get help with Cordova?" with something other than "You
need to ask about PhoneGap". The PhoneGap group certainly made sense when
PhoneGap was the brand, and probably still made sense when the name
changed, but makes less sense every day, as there are more and more people
using the open source project, who may have never heard of PhoneGap, the
product.

(Also, it's odd to direct people to a Google group about an Adobe product
when they're working with an Apache open source project :) )

>
> Seems no one is looking forward to more email, but I'd be satisfied to have
> a users@ list from which we direct people over to SO, since some people
> don't yet know about SO and/or expect a mailing list when they go looking.
>
> The most important action item I think is to update the website, since
> right now we only list the dev, commits, and issues mailing lists listed,
> and a small note about the phonegap forum for user questions (and that was
> hard to find without grep-ing).
>
> -Michal
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 8:06 AM, Mike Billau <mi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I think that between a users@ mailing list, a google group, an IRC room,
> > and StackOverflow, the best medium we can use to support our users is
> > StackOverflow. Joe makes great points about the benefits that
> StackOverflow
> > gives us that I don't see the other mediums providing. Sure the GG may be
> > searchable but not nearly as well as SO. Also, there are already a lot of
> > Cordova users helping each other out on SO (only 4 of the top 20
> > "answerers" are on this list [1]) SO also will automatically switch
> > "phonegap" to "cordova" tag but still allow things like "phonegap-build"
> or
> > "phonegap-enterprise" or whatever - nothing against phonegap, this just
> > seems to be more inline with the "Apache Way" and would help Adobe
> support
> > find relevant issues to them while letting the the overall community work
> > on the more general support questions.
> >
> > If we have to have a users@, so be it, but we should make it a point to
> > answer all questions there with a link to the relevant Stack Overflow
> > answer. I think we should also be doing this on the google group too, but
> > I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been.
> >
> > Finally I know there is a lot of push back about "getting rid of /
> > encouraging less use of" the google group because a lot of people use it
> > and apparently get a lot of their issues fixed, however it seems like
> > either the majority of the questions never get answered, or they get
> > answered by a few users. We should maybe reach out to these power users
> and
> > explain to them the motivation behind trying to move all support off the
> GG
> > and into SO and encourage them to help with this transition.
> >
> > [1] http://stackoverflow.com/tags/cordova/topusers
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The reasons I prefer stack overflow to users lists are as follows:
> > >
> > > 1. Most of our users aren't skilled enough to get on or off of a users
> > list
> > > 2. Stack Overflow's structure keeps things more professional than the
> > > mailing list.  Personal attacks get downvoted on SO
> > > 3. Stack Overflow has better searchibility than a users list.
> > >
> > > If we have to have one because of the much loathed "Apache Way", so be
> > > it, but I don't see it being nearly as helpful as SO.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Most Apache projects have a users@ list for this purpose. Although
> SO
> > > often
> > > > yields better answers, I don't think it would hurt to have a
> > users@list.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:09 AM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> This is a dev list, not a support list. I would recommend
> > StackOverflow.
> > > >>  On Apr 9, 2014 3:16 PM, "Andrew Grieve" <ag...@chromium.org>
> > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible but in
> > the
> > > >> > framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > I'd use the Google Group:
> > > >> > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
> > > >> > > ________________________________________
> > > >> > > From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
> > > >> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
> > > >> > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> > > >> > > Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > hi
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > thanks
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > >
> >
>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova?

[Michal Mocny <mm...@chromium.org>]

So first: we don't *have* have to have users@ list.  This isn't about
"apache way" at all, this is in response to several user inquiries asking
for a user list to point them to.

Seems no one is looking forward to more email, but I'd be satisfied to have
a users@ list from which we direct people over to SO, since some people
don't yet know about SO and/or expect a mailing list when they go looking.

The most important action item I think is to update the website, since
right now we only list the dev, commits, and issues mailing lists listed,
and a small note about the phonegap forum for user questions (and that was
hard to find without grep-ing).

-Michal




On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 8:06 AM, Mike Billau <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think that between a users@ mailing list, a google group, an IRC room,
> and StackOverflow, the best medium we can use to support our users is
> StackOverflow. Joe makes great points about the benefits that StackOverflow
> gives us that I don't see the other mediums providing. Sure the GG may be
> searchable but not nearly as well as SO. Also, there are already a lot of
> Cordova users helping each other out on SO (only 4 of the top 20
> "answerers" are on this list [1]) SO also will automatically switch
> "phonegap" to "cordova" tag but still allow things like "phonegap-build" or
> "phonegap-enterprise" or whatever - nothing against phonegap, this just
> seems to be more inline with the "Apache Way" and would help Adobe support
> find relevant issues to them while letting the the overall community work
> on the more general support questions.
>
> If we have to have a users@, so be it, but we should make it a point to
> answer all questions there with a link to the relevant Stack Overflow
> answer. I think we should also be doing this on the google group too, but
> I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been.
>
> Finally I know there is a lot of push back about "getting rid of /
> encouraging less use of" the google group because a lot of people use it
> and apparently get a lot of their issues fixed, however it seems like
> either the majority of the questions never get answered, or they get
> answered by a few users. We should maybe reach out to these power users and
> explain to them the motivation behind trying to move all support off the GG
> and into SO and encourage them to help with this transition.
>
> [1] http://stackoverflow.com/tags/cordova/topusers
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The reasons I prefer stack overflow to users lists are as follows:
> >
> > 1. Most of our users aren't skilled enough to get on or off of a users
> list
> > 2. Stack Overflow's structure keeps things more professional than the
> > mailing list.  Personal attacks get downvoted on SO
> > 3. Stack Overflow has better searchibility than a users list.
> >
> > If we have to have one because of the much loathed "Apache Way", so be
> > it, but I don't see it being nearly as helpful as SO.
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>
> > wrote:
> > > Most Apache projects have a users@ list for this purpose. Although SO
> > often
> > > yields better answers, I don't think it would hurt to have a
> users@list.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:09 AM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> This is a dev list, not a support list. I would recommend
> StackOverflow.
> > >>  On Apr 9, 2014 3:16 PM, "Andrew Grieve" <ag...@chromium.org>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible but in
> the
> > >> > framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > I'd use the Google Group:
> > >> > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
> > >> > > ________________________________________
> > >> > > From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
> > >> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
> > >> > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> > >> > > Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > hi
> > >> > >
> > >> > > where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > thanks
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova?

[Mike Billau <mi...@gmail.com>]

I think that between a users@ mailing list, a google group, an IRC room,
and StackOverflow, the best medium we can use to support our users is
StackOverflow. Joe makes great points about the benefits that StackOverflow
gives us that I don't see the other mediums providing. Sure the GG may be
searchable but not nearly as well as SO. Also, there are already a lot of
Cordova users helping each other out on SO (only 4 of the top 20
"answerers" are on this list [1]) SO also will automatically switch
"phonegap" to "cordova" tag but still allow things like "phonegap-build" or
"phonegap-enterprise" or whatever - nothing against phonegap, this just
seems to be more inline with the "Apache Way" and would help Adobe support
find relevant issues to them while letting the the overall community work
on the more general support questions.

If we have to have a users@, so be it, but we should make it a point to
answer all questions there with a link to the relevant Stack Overflow
answer. I think we should also be doing this on the google group too, but
I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been.

Finally I know there is a lot of push back about "getting rid of /
encouraging less use of" the google group because a lot of people use it
and apparently get a lot of their issues fixed, however it seems like
either the majority of the questions never get answered, or they get
answered by a few users. We should maybe reach out to these power users and
explain to them the motivation behind trying to move all support off the GG
and into SO and encourage them to help with this transition.

[1] http://stackoverflow.com/tags/cordova/topusers


On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The reasons I prefer stack overflow to users lists are as follows:
>
> 1. Most of our users aren't skilled enough to get on or off of a users list
> 2. Stack Overflow's structure keeps things more professional than the
> mailing list.  Personal attacks get downvoted on SO
> 3. Stack Overflow has better searchibility than a users list.
>
> If we have to have one because of the much loathed "Apache Way", so be
> it, but I don't see it being nearly as helpful as SO.
>
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>
> wrote:
> > Most Apache projects have a users@ list for this purpose. Although SO
> often
> > yields better answers, I don't think it would hurt to have a users@list.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:09 AM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> This is a dev list, not a support list. I would recommend StackOverflow.
> >>  On Apr 9, 2014 3:16 PM, "Andrew Grieve" <ag...@chromium.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> > StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible but in the
> >> > framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > I'd use the Google Group:
> >> > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
> >> > > ________________________________________
> >> > > From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
> >> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
> >> > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> >> > > Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
> >> > >
> >> > > hi
> >> > >
> >> > > where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
> >> > >
> >> > > thanks
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova?

[Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com>]

The reasons I prefer stack overflow to users lists are as follows:

1. Most of our users aren't skilled enough to get on or off of a users list
2. Stack Overflow's structure keeps things more professional than the
mailing list.  Personal attacks get downvoted on SO
3. Stack Overflow has better searchibility than a users list.

If we have to have one because of the much loathed "Apache Way", so be
it, but I don't see it being nearly as helpful as SO.

On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org> wrote:
> Most Apache projects have a users@ list for this purpose. Although SO often
> yields better answers, I don't think it would hurt to have a users@ list.
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:09 AM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This is a dev list, not a support list. I would recommend StackOverflow.
>>  On Apr 9, 2014 3:16 PM, "Andrew Grieve" <ag...@chromium.org> wrote:
>>
>> > StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible but in the
>> > framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I'd use the Google Group:
>> > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
>> > > ________________________________________
>> > > From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
>> > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
>> > > Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
>> > >
>> > > hi
>> > >
>> > > where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
>> > >
>> > > thanks
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova?

[Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>]

Most Apache projects have a users@ list for this purpose. Although SO often
yields better answers, I don't think it would hurt to have a users@ list.


On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:09 AM, Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> This is a dev list, not a support list. I would recommend StackOverflow.
>  On Apr 9, 2014 3:16 PM, "Andrew Grieve" <ag...@chromium.org> wrote:
>
> > StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible but in the
> > framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I'd use the Google Group:
> > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
> > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> > > Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
> > >
> > > hi
> > >
> > > where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
> > >
> > > thanks
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova?

[Joe Bowser <bo...@gmail.com>]

This is a dev list, not a support list. I would recommend StackOverflow.
 On Apr 9, 2014 3:16 PM, "Andrew Grieve" <ag...@chromium.org> wrote:

> StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible but in the
> framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:
>
> > I'd use the Google Group:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
> > ________________________________________
> > From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
> > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> > Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
> >
> > hi
> >
> > where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> >
>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova? ---- Request for Cordova User Group Mailing List

[tommy-carlos williams <to...@devgeeks.org>]

+1 

This

Absolutely this.

Also, the #phonegap IRC channel on Freenode...

I do as much as I can, and there are others that help, but it’s fairly skewed towards the AU timezone ;)


- tommy

On 12 April 2014 at 6:44:09 am, Jesse (purplecabbage@gmail.com) wrote:

Generally though, I think everyone should spend some time on the 'phonegap' 
mailing list so they can familiarize yourself with the problems that real 
users have everyday.

Re: support on phonegap/cordova? ---- Request for Cordova User Group Mailing List

[Jesse <pu...@gmail.com>]

The PhoneGap mailing list has 20k users, and receives an average of 1000
posts in 400 topics every month.
In my opinion, the mailing list was the main reason that PhoneGap gained so
much early adoption as we used to spend a great deal of time helping users,
and learning from them about what needed clarification, or simplification.
In the context of the mailing list, the names 'phonegap' and 'cordova' are
generally used interchangeably.
I would not expect asking everyone to move to a new list would help anyone.
 I think Stack Overflow is a good alternative option.

Generally though, I think everyone should spend some time on the 'phonegap'
mailing list so they can familiarize yourself with the problems that real
users have everyday.  There is a wealth of real world data there.  I feel a
lot of the recent 'must have' features suggested here on the cordova dev
list have very little to do with helping people, and more to do with self
gratification and/or developer gold-plating. ... but that could just be me.


@purplecabbage
risingj.com


On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 12:32 PM, Bryan Higgins <br...@bryanhiggins.net>wrote:

> Good points Steve!
>
> I will definitely check in on SO, especially for BB related questions.
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Steven Gill <st...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > From my experience of helping out on the PG google group, many people ask
> > very simple questions and don't bother searching.
> >
> > My worries about having a users group:
> > * searchability of answers. We would have to point people towards
> markmail
> > to search (or Google)
> > * lack of responding from committers. If we end up not being responsive,
> > doesn't look good for Cordova.
> > * flood of simple basic questions over and over
> >
> > With stack overflow, we can point users to a well established community
> for
> > answering questions. Our community seems to enjoy gathering SO points and
> > building rep. We take advantage of the search and ranking ability on SO.
> > The cordova/phonegap tags are also very highly used and answered already.
> >
> > I agree with Michal that we should direct people to SO from our site.
> >
> > We also offer support on #cordova on freenode (even though this was
> > intended to be more of a dev channel)
> >
> > My own  personal thoughts about the PG Google group have been that we
> > should migrate users to SO. Unfortunately, it is never easy forcing a
> well
> > established community to change.
> > +1 to stackoverflow.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 8:43 AM, Steven Gill <st...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > +1 to Michal.
> > >
> > > I would prefer stack overflow over more email.
> > > On Apr 11, 2014 7:58 AM, "Michal Mocny" <mm...@chromium.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Not sure I would use the argument "make users less aware of phonegap"
> > as
> > > a
> > > > reason for this ;) but I agree that its a bit confusing for existing
> > > users
> > > > of cordova core to be directed to phonegap support (see timely reply
> to
> > > the
> > > > original thread from another user).
> > > >
> > > > I much prefer directing user questions to stack overflow, though,
> where
> > > > there is much better support for handling duplicate questions,
> > > prioritizing
> > > > useful answers, and you generally get much more community
> contributions
> > > for
> > > > answering questions, so I'd really prefer we advertise that avenue
> for
> > > > support on our website first and foremost.
> > > >
> > > > For user questions that do need to go to a mailing list (is there
> ever
> > a
> > > > case?), I guess I don't mind which list it goes to (dev@ or users@).
> >  I
> > > > just mind the inevitably frequent repetitive low quality questions by
> > > users
> > > > who just didn't do their research.  Stack overflow solves that
> problem
> > > much
> > > > better.
> > > >
> > > > My 2cents.
> > > >
> > > > -Michal
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Bryan Higgins <
> > bryan@bryanhiggins.net
> > > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > +1
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Lisa Seacat DeLuca <
> > > ldeluca@us.ibm.com
> > > > > >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > After attending ApacheCon it was clear that most projects have a
> > user
> > > > > > group mailing list to handle questions like this rather than
> > > forwarding
> > > > > > people to a product specific distribution.  I know there is a big
> > > > > community
> > > > > > around PhoneGap and the Google Group has a lot of great existing
> > > > content
> > > > > > but we should create a user group for Cordova to make developers
> > more
> > > > > aware
> > > > > > that we exist.  Right now if you ask a developer if they know
> what
> > > > > Cordova
> > > > > > is they stare at your blankly... but if you ask then what
> Phonegap
> > is
> > > > > they
> > > > > > are more likely to know.  This would be a small change that could
> > go
> > > a
> > > > > long
> > > > > > way to helping to disrupt that way of thinking.  thoughts? +1's?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lisa
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lisa Seacat DeLuca
> > > > > > Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | *ldeluca@apache.org*<
> > > > > ldeluca@apache.org>| |
> > > > > > *ldeluca@us.ibm.com* <ld...@us.ibm.com> | *lisaseacat.com*<
> > > > > http://www.lisaseacat.com/>| [image:
> > > > > > follow @LisaSeacat on twitter] <
> http://www.twitter.com/LisaSeacat
> > >|
> > > > > [image:
> > > > > > follow Lisa Seacat DeLuca on linkedin]<
> > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/lisaseacat>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From:        Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>
> > > > > > To:        dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> > > > > > Date:        04/09/2014 06:16 PM
> > > > > > Subject:        Re: support on phonegap/cordova?
> > > > > > Sent by:        agrieve@google.com
> > > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible but
> in
> > > the
> > > > > > framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'd use the Google Group:
> > > > > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
> > > > > > > ________________________________________
> > > > > > > From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
> > > > > > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> > > > > > > Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > hi
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > thanks
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova? ---- Request for Cordova User Group Mailing List

[Bryan Higgins <br...@bryanhiggins.net>]

Good points Steve!

I will definitely check in on SO, especially for BB related questions.


On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Steven Gill <st...@gmail.com> wrote:

> From my experience of helping out on the PG google group, many people ask
> very simple questions and don't bother searching.
>
> My worries about having a users group:
> * searchability of answers. We would have to point people towards markmail
> to search (or Google)
> * lack of responding from committers. If we end up not being responsive,
> doesn't look good for Cordova.
> * flood of simple basic questions over and over
>
> With stack overflow, we can point users to a well established community for
> answering questions. Our community seems to enjoy gathering SO points and
> building rep. We take advantage of the search and ranking ability on SO.
> The cordova/phonegap tags are also very highly used and answered already.
>
> I agree with Michal that we should direct people to SO from our site.
>
> We also offer support on #cordova on freenode (even though this was
> intended to be more of a dev channel)
>
> My own  personal thoughts about the PG Google group have been that we
> should migrate users to SO. Unfortunately, it is never easy forcing a well
> established community to change.
> +1 to stackoverflow.
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 8:43 AM, Steven Gill <st...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > +1 to Michal.
> >
> > I would prefer stack overflow over more email.
> > On Apr 11, 2014 7:58 AM, "Michal Mocny" <mm...@chromium.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Not sure I would use the argument "make users less aware of phonegap"
> as
> > a
> > > reason for this ;) but I agree that its a bit confusing for existing
> > users
> > > of cordova core to be directed to phonegap support (see timely reply to
> > the
> > > original thread from another user).
> > >
> > > I much prefer directing user questions to stack overflow, though, where
> > > there is much better support for handling duplicate questions,
> > prioritizing
> > > useful answers, and you generally get much more community contributions
> > for
> > > answering questions, so I'd really prefer we advertise that avenue for
> > > support on our website first and foremost.
> > >
> > > For user questions that do need to go to a mailing list (is there ever
> a
> > > case?), I guess I don't mind which list it goes to (dev@ or users@).
>  I
> > > just mind the inevitably frequent repetitive low quality questions by
> > users
> > > who just didn't do their research.  Stack overflow solves that problem
> > much
> > > better.
> > >
> > > My 2cents.
> > >
> > > -Michal
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Bryan Higgins <
> bryan@bryanhiggins.net
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > +1
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Lisa Seacat DeLuca <
> > ldeluca@us.ibm.com
> > > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > After attending ApacheCon it was clear that most projects have a
> user
> > > > > group mailing list to handle questions like this rather than
> > forwarding
> > > > > people to a product specific distribution.  I know there is a big
> > > > community
> > > > > around PhoneGap and the Google Group has a lot of great existing
> > > content
> > > > > but we should create a user group for Cordova to make developers
> more
> > > > aware
> > > > > that we exist.  Right now if you ask a developer if they know what
> > > > Cordova
> > > > > is they stare at your blankly... but if you ask then what Phonegap
> is
> > > > they
> > > > > are more likely to know.  This would be a small change that could
> go
> > a
> > > > long
> > > > > way to helping to disrupt that way of thinking.  thoughts? +1's?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Lisa
> > > > >
> > > > > Lisa Seacat DeLuca
> > > > > Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | *ldeluca@apache.org*<
> > > > ldeluca@apache.org>| |
> > > > > *ldeluca@us.ibm.com* <ld...@us.ibm.com> | *lisaseacat.com*<
> > > > http://www.lisaseacat.com/>| [image:
> > > > > follow @LisaSeacat on twitter] <http://www.twitter.com/LisaSeacat
> >|
> > > > [image:
> > > > > follow Lisa Seacat DeLuca on linkedin]<
> > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/lisaseacat>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From:        Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>
> > > > > To:        dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> > > > > Date:        04/09/2014 06:16 PM
> > > > > Subject:        Re: support on phonegap/cordova?
> > > > > Sent by:        agrieve@google.com
> > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible but in
> > the
> > > > > framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I'd use the Google Group:
> > > > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
> > > > > > ________________________________________
> > > > > > From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
> > > > > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> > > > > > Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > hi
> > > > > >
> > > > > > where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova? ---- Request for Cordova User Group Mailing List

[Steven Gill <st...@gmail.com>]

>From my experience of helping out on the PG google group, many people ask
very simple questions and don't bother searching.

My worries about having a users group:
* searchability of answers. We would have to point people towards markmail
to search (or Google)
* lack of responding from committers. If we end up not being responsive,
doesn't look good for Cordova.
* flood of simple basic questions over and over

With stack overflow, we can point users to a well established community for
answering questions. Our community seems to enjoy gathering SO points and
building rep. We take advantage of the search and ranking ability on SO.
The cordova/phonegap tags are also very highly used and answered already.

I agree with Michal that we should direct people to SO from our site.

We also offer support on #cordova on freenode (even though this was
intended to be more of a dev channel)

My own  personal thoughts about the PG Google group have been that we
should migrate users to SO. Unfortunately, it is never easy forcing a well
established community to change.
+1 to stackoverflow.


On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 8:43 AM, Steven Gill <st...@gmail.com> wrote:

> +1 to Michal.
>
> I would prefer stack overflow over more email.
> On Apr 11, 2014 7:58 AM, "Michal Mocny" <mm...@chromium.org> wrote:
>
> > Not sure I would use the argument "make users less aware of phonegap" as
> a
> > reason for this ;) but I agree that its a bit confusing for existing
> users
> > of cordova core to be directed to phonegap support (see timely reply to
> the
> > original thread from another user).
> >
> > I much prefer directing user questions to stack overflow, though, where
> > there is much better support for handling duplicate questions,
> prioritizing
> > useful answers, and you generally get much more community contributions
> for
> > answering questions, so I'd really prefer we advertise that avenue for
> > support on our website first and foremost.
> >
> > For user questions that do need to go to a mailing list (is there ever a
> > case?), I guess I don't mind which list it goes to (dev@ or users@).  I
> > just mind the inevitably frequent repetitive low quality questions by
> users
> > who just didn't do their research.  Stack overflow solves that problem
> much
> > better.
> >
> > My 2cents.
> >
> > -Michal
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Bryan Higgins <bryan@bryanhiggins.net
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > +1
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Lisa Seacat DeLuca <
> ldeluca@us.ibm.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > After attending ApacheCon it was clear that most projects have a
user
> > > > group mailing list to handle questions like this rather than
> forwarding
> > > > people to a product specific distribution.  I know there is a big
> > > community
> > > > around PhoneGap and the Google Group has a lot of great existing
> > content
> > > > but we should create a user group for Cordova to make developers
more
> > > aware
> > > > that we exist.  Right now if you ask a developer if they know what
> > > Cordova
> > > > is they stare at your blankly... but if you ask then what Phonegap
is
> > > they
> > > > are more likely to know.  This would be a small change that could go
> a
> > > long
> > > > way to helping to disrupt that way of thinking.  thoughts? +1's?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Lisa
> > > >
> > > > Lisa Seacat DeLuca
> > > > Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | *ldeluca@apache.org*<
> > > ldeluca@apache.org>| |
> > > > *ldeluca@us.ibm.com* <ld...@us.ibm.com> | *lisaseacat.com*<
> > > http://www.lisaseacat.com/>| [image:
> > > > follow @LisaSeacat on twitter] <http://www.twitter.com/LisaSeacat>|
> > > [image:
> > > > follow Lisa Seacat DeLuca on linkedin]<
> > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/lisaseacat>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From:        Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>
> > > > To:        dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> > > > Date:        04/09/2014 06:16 PM
> > > > Subject:        Re: support on phonegap/cordova?
> > > > Sent by:        agrieve@google.com
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible but in
> the
> > > > framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I'd use the Google Group:
> > > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
> > > > > ________________________________________
> > > > > From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
> > > > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
> > > > >
> > > > > hi
> > > > >
> > > > > where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova? ---- Request for Cordova User Group Mailing List

[Anis KADRI <an...@gmail.com>]

+1 to stackoverflow.


On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 8:43 AM, Steven Gill <st...@gmail.com> wrote:

> +1 to Michal.
>
> I would prefer stack overflow over more email.
> On Apr 11, 2014 7:58 AM, "Michal Mocny" <mm...@chromium.org> wrote:
>
> > Not sure I would use the argument "make users less aware of phonegap" as
> a
> > reason for this ;) but I agree that its a bit confusing for existing
> users
> > of cordova core to be directed to phonegap support (see timely reply to
> the
> > original thread from another user).
> >
> > I much prefer directing user questions to stack overflow, though, where
> > there is much better support for handling duplicate questions,
> prioritizing
> > useful answers, and you generally get much more community contributions
> for
> > answering questions, so I'd really prefer we advertise that avenue for
> > support on our website first and foremost.
> >
> > For user questions that do need to go to a mailing list (is there ever a
> > case?), I guess I don't mind which list it goes to (dev@ or users@).  I
> > just mind the inevitably frequent repetitive low quality questions by
> users
> > who just didn't do their research.  Stack overflow solves that problem
> much
> > better.
> >
> > My 2cents.
> >
> > -Michal
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Bryan Higgins <bryan@bryanhiggins.net
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > +1
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Lisa Seacat DeLuca <
> ldeluca@us.ibm.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > After attending ApacheCon it was clear that most projects have a user
> > > > group mailing list to handle questions like this rather than
> forwarding
> > > > people to a product specific distribution.  I know there is a big
> > > community
> > > > around PhoneGap and the Google Group has a lot of great existing
> > content
> > > > but we should create a user group for Cordova to make developers more
> > > aware
> > > > that we exist.  Right now if you ask a developer if they know what
> > > Cordova
> > > > is they stare at your blankly... but if you ask then what Phonegap is
> > > they
> > > > are more likely to know.  This would be a small change that could go
> a
> > > long
> > > > way to helping to disrupt that way of thinking.  thoughts? +1's?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Lisa
> > > >
> > > > Lisa Seacat DeLuca
> > > > Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | *ldeluca@apache.org*<
> > > ldeluca@apache.org>| |
> > > > *ldeluca@us.ibm.com* <ld...@us.ibm.com> | *lisaseacat.com*<
> > > http://www.lisaseacat.com/>| [image:
> > > > follow @LisaSeacat on twitter] <http://www.twitter.com/LisaSeacat>|
> > > [image:
> > > > follow Lisa Seacat DeLuca on linkedin]<
> > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/lisaseacat>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From:        Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>
> > > > To:        dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> > > > Date:        04/09/2014 06:16 PM
> > > > Subject:        Re: support on phonegap/cordova?
> > > > Sent by:        agrieve@google.com
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible but in
> the
> > > > framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I'd use the Google Group:
> > > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
> > > > > ________________________________________
> > > > > From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
> > > > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
> > > > >
> > > > > hi
> > > > >
> > > > > where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova? ---- Request for Cordova User Group Mailing List

[Steven Gill <st...@gmail.com>]

+1 to Michal.

I would prefer stack overflow over more email.
On Apr 11, 2014 7:58 AM, "Michal Mocny" <mm...@chromium.org> wrote:

> Not sure I would use the argument "make users less aware of phonegap" as a
> reason for this ;) but I agree that its a bit confusing for existing users
> of cordova core to be directed to phonegap support (see timely reply to the
> original thread from another user).
>
> I much prefer directing user questions to stack overflow, though, where
> there is much better support for handling duplicate questions, prioritizing
> useful answers, and you generally get much more community contributions for
> answering questions, so I'd really prefer we advertise that avenue for
> support on our website first and foremost.
>
> For user questions that do need to go to a mailing list (is there ever a
> case?), I guess I don't mind which list it goes to (dev@ or users@).  I
> just mind the inevitably frequent repetitive low quality questions by users
> who just didn't do their research.  Stack overflow solves that problem much
> better.
>
> My 2cents.
>
> -Michal
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Bryan Higgins <bryan@bryanhiggins.net
> >wrote:
>
> > +1
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Lisa Seacat DeLuca <ldeluca@us.ibm.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > After attending ApacheCon it was clear that most projects have a user
> > > group mailing list to handle questions like this rather than forwarding
> > > people to a product specific distribution.  I know there is a big
> > community
> > > around PhoneGap and the Google Group has a lot of great existing
> content
> > > but we should create a user group for Cordova to make developers more
> > aware
> > > that we exist.  Right now if you ask a developer if they know what
> > Cordova
> > > is they stare at your blankly... but if you ask then what Phonegap is
> > they
> > > are more likely to know.  This would be a small change that could go a
> > long
> > > way to helping to disrupt that way of thinking.  thoughts? +1's?
> > >
> > >
> > > Lisa
> > >
> > > Lisa Seacat DeLuca
> > > Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | *ldeluca@apache.org*<
> > ldeluca@apache.org>| |
> > > *ldeluca@us.ibm.com* <ld...@us.ibm.com> | *lisaseacat.com*<
> > http://www.lisaseacat.com/>| [image:
> > > follow @LisaSeacat on twitter] <http://www.twitter.com/LisaSeacat>|
> > [image:
> > > follow Lisa Seacat DeLuca on linkedin]<
> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/lisaseacat>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From:        Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>
> > > To:        dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> > > Date:        04/09/2014 06:16 PM
> > > Subject:        Re: support on phonegap/cordova?
> > > Sent by:        agrieve@google.com
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible but in the
> > > framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'd use the Google Group:
> > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
> > > > ________________________________________
> > > > From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
> > > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> > > > Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
> > > >
> > > > hi
> > > >
> > > > where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
> > > >
> > > > thanks
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova? ---- Request for Cordova User Group Mailing List

[Michal Mocny <mm...@chromium.org>]

Not sure I would use the argument "make users less aware of phonegap" as a
reason for this ;) but I agree that its a bit confusing for existing users
of cordova core to be directed to phonegap support (see timely reply to the
original thread from another user).

I much prefer directing user questions to stack overflow, though, where
there is much better support for handling duplicate questions, prioritizing
useful answers, and you generally get much more community contributions for
answering questions, so I'd really prefer we advertise that avenue for
support on our website first and foremost.

For user questions that do need to go to a mailing list (is there ever a
case?), I guess I don't mind which list it goes to (dev@ or users@).  I
just mind the inevitably frequent repetitive low quality questions by users
who just didn't do their research.  Stack overflow solves that problem much
better.

My 2cents.

-Michal


On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Bryan Higgins <br...@bryanhiggins.net>wrote:

> +1
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Lisa Seacat DeLuca <ldeluca@us.ibm.com
> >wrote:
>
> > After attending ApacheCon it was clear that most projects have a user
> > group mailing list to handle questions like this rather than forwarding
> > people to a product specific distribution.  I know there is a big
> community
> > around PhoneGap and the Google Group has a lot of great existing content
> > but we should create a user group for Cordova to make developers more
> aware
> > that we exist.  Right now if you ask a developer if they know what
> Cordova
> > is they stare at your blankly... but if you ask then what Phonegap is
> they
> > are more likely to know.  This would be a small change that could go a
> long
> > way to helping to disrupt that way of thinking.  thoughts? +1's?
> >
> >
> > Lisa
> >
> > Lisa Seacat DeLuca
> > Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | *ldeluca@apache.org*<
> ldeluca@apache.org>| |
> > *ldeluca@us.ibm.com* <ld...@us.ibm.com> | *lisaseacat.com*<
> http://www.lisaseacat.com/>| [image:
> > follow @LisaSeacat on twitter] <http://www.twitter.com/LisaSeacat>|
> [image:
> > follow Lisa Seacat DeLuca on linkedin]<
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/lisaseacat>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From:        Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>
> > To:        dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> > Date:        04/09/2014 06:16 PM
> > Subject:        Re: support on phonegap/cordova?
> > Sent by:        agrieve@google.com
> > ------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible but in the
> > framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I'd use the Google Group:
> > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
> > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> > > Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
> > >
> > > hi
> > >
> > > where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
> > >
> > > thanks
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova? ---- Request for Cordova User Group Mailing List

[Bryan Higgins <br...@bryanhiggins.net>]

+1


On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Lisa Seacat DeLuca <ld...@us.ibm.com>wrote:

> After attending ApacheCon it was clear that most projects have a user
> group mailing list to handle questions like this rather than forwarding
> people to a product specific distribution.  I know there is a big community
> around PhoneGap and the Google Group has a lot of great existing content
> but we should create a user group for Cordova to make developers more aware
> that we exist.  Right now if you ask a developer if they know what Cordova
> is they stare at your blankly... but if you ask then what Phonegap is they
> are more likely to know.  This would be a small change that could go a long
> way to helping to disrupt that way of thinking.  thoughts? +1's?
>
>
> Lisa
>
> Lisa Seacat DeLuca
> Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | *ldeluca@apache.org*<ld...@apache.org>| |
> *ldeluca@us.ibm.com* <ld...@us.ibm.com> | *lisaseacat.com*<http://www.lisaseacat.com/>| [image:
> follow @LisaSeacat on twitter] <http://www.twitter.com/LisaSeacat>| [image:
> follow Lisa Seacat DeLuca on linkedin]<http://www.linkedin.com/in/lisaseacat>
>
>
>
>
>
> From:        Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>
> To:        dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
> Date:        04/09/2014 06:16 PM
> Subject:        Re: support on phonegap/cordova?
> Sent by:        agrieve@google.com
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible but in the
> framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:
>
> > I'd use the Google Group:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
> > ________________________________________
> > From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
> > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> > Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
> >
> > hi
> >
> > where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> >
>
>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova? ---- Request for Cordova User Group Mailing List

[Lisa Seacat DeLuca <ld...@us.ibm.com>]

After attending ApacheCon it was clear that most projects have a user 
group mailing list to handle questions like this rather than forwarding 
people to a product specific distribution.  I know there is a big 
community around PhoneGap and the Google Group has a lot of great existing 
content but we should create a user group for Cordova to make developers 
more aware that we exist.  Right now if you ask a developer if they know 
what Cordova is they stare at your blankly... but if you ask then what 
Phonegap is they are more likely to know.  This would be a small change 
that could go a long way to helping to disrupt that way of thinking. 
thoughts? +1's? 


Lisa

Lisa Seacat DeLuca
Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | ldeluca@apache.org | | 
ldeluca@us.ibm.com | lisaseacat.com | | 





From:   Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>
To:     dev <de...@cordova.apache.org>
Date:   04/09/2014 06:16 PM
Subject:        Re: support on phonegap/cordova?
Sent by:        agrieve@google.com



StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible but in the
framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)


On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:

> I'd use the Google Group: 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
> ________________________________________
> From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
> To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
>
> hi
>
> where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
>
> thanks
>
>

Re: support on phonegap/cordova?

[Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>]

StackOverflow works really well as well. If it's a possible but in the
framework or an Apache plugin though, this is the list :)


On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:21 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:

> I'd use the Google Group: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
> ________________________________________
> From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
> To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?
>
> hi
>
> where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?
>
> thanks
>
>

RE: support on phonegap/cordova?

[Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>]

I'd use the Google Group: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/phonegap
________________________________________
From: smo <s....@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:35 AM
To: dev@cordova.apache.org
Subject: support on phonegap/cordova?

hi

where must i post to get support on phonegap/cordova ios ?

thanks