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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org> on 2003/08/21 14:46:24 UTC
JIRA @ ASF (was: Re: policy question)
On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 07:17:56AM +0100, James Strachan wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 20, 2003, at 10:23 pm, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> >I've asked that question before, and been told that CVS is mandatory,
> >the official web site must be on the ASF infrastructure, but that
> >other tools might not be mandatory.
> >
> >Personally, I'm not entirely comfortable with more and more projects
> >going to werken/codehaus to use jira, but I can't quite put my finger
> >on why I'm bothered. It seems that the worst that could happen would
> >be if those foreign trackers were lose the database (we've no control
> >over their backup practices). Mind you, that would be bad enough.
>
> Though there's no reason, given some hardware and a volunteer, why we
> couldn't install JIRA at Apache.
I volunteer :) Hacking JIRA is my day job.
I don't really see the need though. Bob is doing a fine job hosting JIRA
on werken.com. I'm sure that backups to ASF hardware could be arranged
if that were really an issue.
But if a) Bob would like to offload the job, b) infrastructure peeps
prefer to keep bugtrackers on ASF hardware, then if someone can toss me a
nagoya account I'll set up a pilot JIRA installation.
--Jeff
> James
> -------
> http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
>
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Re: JIRA @ ASF (was: Re: policy question)
Posted by Paul Hammant <Pa...@ThoughtWorks.net>.
Jeff,
>I think the 'empowered' part is where Bugzilla falls down. I don't know
>about Scarab, but JIRA administration is mostly done through the web
>interface. Project-specific admins can be specified, who are allowed to
>create new versions/components for their project.
>
>
Don't forget that the import and export can be in XML via the web-admin
forms. That's how we (commercial install) handle some of our upgrades on
versions of Jira. Can handle huge import files very happily.
As such, lock-in was not on the feature list for Jira.
- Paul
--
http://www.thoughtworks.com -> The art of heavy lifting.
Home for many Agile practicing, Open Source activists...
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Re: JIRA @ ASF (was: Re: policy question)
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
> Yes. It's no good me or any one person promising to be here in 5 years
> time. There has to be a pool of users sufficiently interested and
> empowered to be able to become administrators.
>
5 years ago, there probably wasn't bugzilla... If a particular community
decides to use it, then someone will step forward or the system can be
uninstalled. No biggy.
> I think the 'empowered' part is where Bugzilla falls down. I don't know
> about Scarab, but JIRA administration is mostly done through the web
> interface. Project-specific admins can be specified, who are allowed to
> create new versions/components for their project.
>
>
> --Jeff
>
>> For JIRA, we have you and Henri Yandell volunteering to help admin the
>> tool. For bugzilla, we've really got no one who seems devoted to it
>> (or they just stay quiet). Both Scarab and bugzilla apparently have
>> made great strides elsewhere, but their ASF installations have
>> languished, and haven't been anyone's priority to maintain. Both are
>> scheduled to be updated as soon as a major operating system update to
>> nagoya is completed, but that's been postponed.
>>
>> --- Noel
>
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--
Andrew C. Oliver
http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp
Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI
http://jakarta.apache.org/poi
For Java and Excel, Got POI?
The views expressed in this email are those of the author and are almost
definitely not shared by the Apache Software Foundation, its board or its
general membership. In fact they probably most definitively disagree with
everything espoused in the above email.
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Re: JIRA @ ASF (was: Re: policy question)
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
(moving to infrastructure@, where this is more relevant. Thread at
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=106146999500001&r=1&w=2)
On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 01:36:35PM -0400, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Jeff,
>
> Jeff Turner wrote:
...
> > I volunteer :) Hacking JIRA is my day job.
>
> I think it would be helpful to have a discussion and consensus on which
> issue tracking tool should be adopted, and why, but it ought to be ASF-wide.
> I don't believe that it makes sense for us to use multiple tools in the same
> space.
Consensus across the entire ASF? I suppose it is possible, but
demonstrably not with Bugzilla, and IMHO not with Scarab.
Consensus amongst the poor suckers responsible for long-term maintenance
would be more viable and more interesting.
For a start, has anyone investigated whether Scarab scales to handle the
quantity of issues Bugzilla is currently handling? JIRA has a Bugzilla
importer, so that's one of the things I'd like to investigate with a
pilot install.
> Personally, I think that one criteria (but only one) ought to be having
> people eager and available to maintain whatever tool is adopted.
Yes. It's no good me or any one person promising to be here in 5 years
time. There has to be a pool of users sufficiently interested and
empowered to be able to become administrators.
I think the 'empowered' part is where Bugzilla falls down. I don't know
about Scarab, but JIRA administration is mostly done through the web
interface. Project-specific admins can be specified, who are allowed to
create new versions/components for their project.
--Jeff
> For JIRA, we have you and Henri Yandell volunteering to help admin the
> tool. For bugzilla, we've really got no one who seems devoted to it
> (or they just stay quiet). Both Scarab and bugzilla apparently have
> made great strides elsewhere, but their ASF installations have
> languished, and haven't been anyone's priority to maintain. Both are
> scheduled to be updated as soon as a major operating system update to
> nagoya is completed, but that's been postponed.
>
> --- Noel
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Re: JIRA @ ASF (was: Re: policy question)
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:46:24 +1000
Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org> wrote:
> But if a) Bob would like to offload the job, b) infrastructure peeps
> prefer to keep bugtrackers on ASF hardware, then if someone can toss
> me a nagoya account I'll set up a pilot JIRA installation.
Ditto:
Also, please the move the "forrestbot" site into ASF (nagoya)
please, Jeff.
There are many sites in the ASF which use forrest ... If only
Jeff can manage the forrestbot site, it's policy could be
against that of healthy OSS communities.
Anyway, centerlizing the burdens to one person in open source
communities might not be a good thing. Decentralization might
be appreciative, as I said at infra@.
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
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Re: JIRA @ ASF
Posted by Paul Hammant <Pa...@ThoughtWorks.net>.
>>Though there's no reason, given some hardware and a volunteer, why we
>>couldn't install JIRA at Apache.
>>
>>
>
>I volunteer :) Hacking JIRA is my day job.
>
>I don't really see the need though. Bob is doing a fine job hosting JIRA
>on werken.com. I'm sure that backups to ASF hardware could be arranged
>if that were really an issue.
>
>But if a) Bob would like to offload the job, b) infrastructure peeps
>prefer to keep bugtrackers on ASF hardware, then if someone can toss me a
>nagoya account I'll set up a pilot JIRA installation.
>
>
I'm using Jira at a client site, and it is really sweet. All that use it
love it.
+1 FWIW
- Paul
--
http://www.thoughtworks.com -> The art of heavy lifting.
Home for many Agile practicing, Open Source activists...
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RE: JIRA @ ASF (was: Re: policy question)
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@ispsoft.de>.
Quoting "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>:
> we have you and Henri Yandell volunteering to help admin the tool. For
> bugzilla, we've really got no one who seems devoted to it (or they just stay
> quiet).
If that turns out to be a problem, I'd volunteer. I am an emerited committer
of perl.apache.org and very used to Bugzilla, both fresh installations and
upgrades.
Jochen
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Re: JIRA @ ASF (was: Re: policy question)
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@yahoo.co.uk>.
On Thursday, August 21, 2003, at 06:36 pm, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> I think it would be helpful to have a discussion and consensus on which
> issue tracking tool should be adopted, and why, but it ought to be
> ASF-wide.
> I don't believe that it makes sense for us to use multiple tools in
> the same
> space.
Providing there are enough volunteers to support a particular tool -
why not let the individual communities decide which tool they want to
use? Sure we should try limit the number of different tools, but
different communities may like different things and forcing everyone to
move to one tool might not be ideal.
e.g. some communities might be quite happy with bugzilla & have learnt
it & happy with it, others might be totally in love with JIRA and
shudder at the thought of buzilla etc.
James
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RE: JIRA @ ASF (was: Re: policy question)
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Jeff,
Jeff Turner wrote:
> James Strachan wrote:
> > Though there's no reason, given some hardware and a volunteer, why we
> > couldn't install JIRA at Apache.
> [if] infrastructure peeps prefer to keep bugtrackers on ASF hardware
Well, that was the question being raised. Should those tools be on ASF
hardware? Kitahata-san raises the same question about Forrestbot, which has
also been raised as a concern in the past. Wasn't there a discussion many
months ago about doing a Forrestbot pilot on moof? And Stephen is in the
process of migrating cocoonwiki to the new ASF server.
> I volunteer :) Hacking JIRA is my day job.
I think it would be helpful to have a discussion and consensus on which
issue tracking tool should be adopted, and why, but it ought to be ASF-wide.
I don't believe that it makes sense for us to use multiple tools in the same
space.
Personally, I think that one criteria (but only one) ought to be having
people eager and available to maintain whatever tool is adopted. For JIRA,
we have you and Henri Yandell volunteering to help admin the tool. For
bugzilla, we've really got no one who seems devoted to it (or they just stay
quiet). Both Scarab and bugzilla apparently have made great strides
elsewhere, but their ASF installations have languished, and haven't been
anyone's priority to maintain. Both are scheduled to be updated as soon as
a major operating system update to nagoya is completed, but that's been
postponed.
--- Noel
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RE: JIRA @ ASF (was: Re: policy question)
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
James,
> I'm happy either way really. I'm quite happy with the status quo but if
> folks wanna move it to Apache infrastructure instead I'm a firm +1 also.
Remember, though, the original question posed by Brian on this thread: is
the status quo (having projects go off the infrastructure for these tools),
acceptable as an ASF policy? Subsequent discussion has been about the
tools, and excusing why people are using non-ASF infrastucture, but not
addressed the policy issue.
As was pointed out on this list once before, and to paraphrase someone from
the last time I recall this topic coming up back in Feb, the problem is that
people start to rely upon the non-ASF infrastructure, and then if something
untowards happens, the virtual infrastructure is compromised. The ASF is
geared for the long term, and to survive the loss of individual members.
So there are two separate issues: which issue tracker, but also whether or
not that should be running on the ASF infrastructure. The latter was the
question raised by Brian.
--- Noel
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Re: JIRA @ ASF (was: Re: policy question)
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@yahoo.co.uk>.
On Thursday, August 21, 2003, at 01:46 pm, Jeff Turner wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 07:17:56AM +0100, James Strachan wrote:
>> On Wednesday, August 20, 2003, at 10:23 pm, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>> I've asked that question before, and been told that CVS is mandatory,
>>> the official web site must be on the ASF infrastructure, but that
>>> other tools might not be mandatory.
>>>
>>> Personally, I'm not entirely comfortable with more and more projects
>>> going to werken/codehaus to use jira, but I can't quite put my finger
>>> on why I'm bothered. It seems that the worst that could happen would
>>> be if those foreign trackers were lose the database (we've no control
>>> over their backup practices). Mind you, that would be bad enough.
>>
>> Though there's no reason, given some hardware and a volunteer, why we
>> couldn't install JIRA at Apache.
>
> I volunteer :) Hacking JIRA is my day job.
Excellent!
> I don't really see the need though. Bob is doing a fine job hosting
> JIRA
> on werken.com. I'm sure that backups to ASF hardware could be arranged
> if that were really an issue.
>
> But if a) Bob would like to offload the job, b) infrastructure peeps
> prefer to keep bugtrackers on ASF hardware, then if someone can toss
> me a
> nagoya account I'll set up a pilot JIRA installation.
I'm happy either way really. I'm quite happy with the status quo but if
folks wanna move it to Apache infrastructure instead I'm a firm +1 also.
James
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Re: JIRA @ ASF (was: Re: policy question)
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Jeff Turner wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 07:17:56AM +0100, James Strachan wrote:
> >
> > Though there's no reason, given some hardware and a volunteer, why we
> > couldn't install JIRA at Apache.
>
> I volunteer :) Hacking JIRA is my day job.
I'm happy to help. While not my day job, I get to admin JIRA at work and
for osjava.org.
Hen
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Re: JIRA @ ASF (was: Re: policy question)
Posted by bob mcwhirter <bo...@werken.com>.
> I don't really see the need though. Bob is doing a fine job hosting JIRA
> on werken.com. I'm sure that backups to ASF hardware could be arranged
> if that were really an issue.
Thanks. We do backup offsite on a nightly basis, also.
> But if a) Bob would like to offload the job, b) infrastructure peeps
> prefer to keep bugtrackers on ASF hardware, then if someone can toss me a
> nagoya account I'll set up a pilot JIRA installation.
Really what I want to offload is Scarab. I don't mind hosting ASF projects
on our existing Jira instance.
-bob
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