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Posted to users@tapestry.apache.org by Steve Cowx <st...@gmail.com> on 2009/09/22 23:28:05 UTC
Concerned about the future of Tapestry
Hi Howard, All
The following sound bites seem to paint a pretty bleak future for Tapestry.
1) "Interestingly, I was busy writing Clojure code almost continuously in
the back row of other speaker's sessions .....I've been busy adapting the
concept of parameter destructuring to pulling data out of the request path
and query parameters." - HLS, today. Writing what sounds like the
groundwork for a new web application framework, presumably better than
Tapestry.
2) "I'm using my improved freedom to pursue other important technologies *
beyond* Tapestry, such as Clojure, Cappuccino, and CouchDB" - HLS, August 27
Despite what appears to be a healthy community, a solid code base and set of
hard working committers I am still inclined to believe that the driving
force behind the innovation in Tapestry is still you Howard. In my mind
your move to different technologies signifies a loss of faith in Java and
implies a sense of frustration with the limits of what is possible with T5.
Can anyone set my mind at ease with some real facts about the future of
Tapestry? I have invested a year or more in learning the framework and
applying what I know to creating a web application with it but as a
developer I need to know that my code won't just be another rewrite waiting
to happen.
The alternative, JSF, may be clunky but at least I can be certain that it
will be around and evolving in 5 years time.
Regards
Steve
Re: Concerned about the future of Tapestry
Posted by "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com>.
Em Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:28:05 -0300, Steve Cowx <st...@gmail.com>
escreveu:
> Hi Howard, All
Hi!
> Can anyone set my mind at ease with some real facts about the future of
> Tapestry?
Please englighten us about what these real facts could be. You've just
stated some real facts about why you shouldn't be worried by the future of
Tapestry 5. :)
> The alternative, JSF, may be clunky but at least I can be certain that it
> will be around and evolving in 5 years time.
They haven't got JSF right until now, 5 years after the first release, and
won't get so soon, as its overengineered nature will severely hurt any
attempt to improve it whithout backward-incompatible changes.
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
http://www.arsmachina.com.br/thiago
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Re: Concerned about the future of Tapestry
Posted by Steve Cowx <st...@gmail.com>.
Hi Howard
**
*"I'm committed to Tapestry even beyond what it represents as a revenue
stream. I expect to see more
releases like 5.1 ... compatible, with new features that seamlessly plug
into existing applications.
More importantly, I want to make the documentation better (in book form, and
online)."*
Perfect, thank you.
Regards
Steve
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:18 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Steve Cowx <st...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Howard, All
> >
> > The following sound bites seem to paint a pretty bleak future for
> Tapestry.
> >
> >
> Anything but!
>
>
> >
> > 1) "Interestingly, I was busy writing Clojure code almost continuously in
> > the back row of other speaker's sessions .....I've been busy adapting the
> > concept of parameter destructuring to pulling data out of the request
> path
> > and query parameters." - HLS, today. Writing what sounds like the
> > groundwork for a new web application framework, presumably better than
> > Tapestry.
> >
> > 2) "I'm using my improved freedom to pursue other important technologies
> *
> > beyond* Tapestry, such as Clojure, Cappuccino, and CouchDB" - HLS, August
> > 27
> >
> > Despite what appears to be a healthy community, a solid code base and set
> > of
> > hard working committers I am still inclined to believe that the driving
> > force behind the innovation in Tapestry is still you Howard. In my mind
> > your move to different technologies signifies a loss of faith in Java and
> > implies a sense of frustration with the limits of what is possible with
> T5.
> >
> > Can anyone set my mind at ease with some real facts about the future of
> > Tapestry? I have invested a year or more in learning the framework and
> > applying what I know to creating a web application with it but as a
> > developer I need to know that my code won't just be another rewrite
> waiting
> > to happen.
> >
>
> Several years ago I posted something about Ruby and there was a flurry of
> posts: "Is Howard
> abandoning Java?" Guess what ... I didn't.
>
> I'm committed to Tapestry even beyond what it represents as a revenue
> stream. I expect to see more
> releases like 5.1 ... compatible, with new features that seamlessly plug
> into existing applications.
> More importantly, I want to make the documentation better (in book form,
> and
> online).
>
> In fact, if I never committed another line of code to Tapestry but JUST
> wrote a definitive book on it,
> that would do more to extend the life and acceptance of Tapestry than
> anything else
> I could possibly do!
>
>
> >
> > The alternative, JSF, may be clunky but at least I can be certain that it
> > will be around and evolving in 5 years time.
> >
>
> Yes, they may have gotten through one round of improvement by then :-)
>
>
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Steve
> >
>
> Steve,
>
> I'm afraid you misunderstand how innovation occurs ... it doesn't happen by
> locking someone in a basement
> so they can focus on only one thing. Innovation comes from learning
> different ideas, different languages,
> different technologies and expanding your mind around them.
>
> The Pragmatic Programmers emphasize learning a new language every year and
> I
> like to learn a new technology more often than that.
>
> Many of the innovations you see in Tapestry are ideas that came from other
> areas, in other guises.
>
> So don't worry, I'm going to have my fingers in a few different pies ...
> and
> I'm going to learn new things and adapt them back into Tapestry. That's how
> I've been working for
> 20+ years now.
>
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>
> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> learn
> how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>
> (971) 678-5210
> http://howardlewisship.com
>
--
Kind regards
Stephen Cowx
+44 (0) 7748 490 323
+44 (0) 1306 740 523
Re: Concerned about the future of Tapestry
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Steve Cowx <st...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Howard, All
>
> The following sound bites seem to paint a pretty bleak future for Tapestry.
>
>
Anything but!
>
> 1) "Interestingly, I was busy writing Clojure code almost continuously in
> the back row of other speaker's sessions .....I've been busy adapting the
> concept of parameter destructuring to pulling data out of the request path
> and query parameters." - HLS, today. Writing what sounds like the
> groundwork for a new web application framework, presumably better than
> Tapestry.
>
> 2) "I'm using my improved freedom to pursue other important technologies *
> beyond* Tapestry, such as Clojure, Cappuccino, and CouchDB" - HLS, August
> 27
>
> Despite what appears to be a healthy community, a solid code base and set
> of
> hard working committers I am still inclined to believe that the driving
> force behind the innovation in Tapestry is still you Howard. In my mind
> your move to different technologies signifies a loss of faith in Java and
> implies a sense of frustration with the limits of what is possible with T5.
>
> Can anyone set my mind at ease with some real facts about the future of
> Tapestry? I have invested a year or more in learning the framework and
> applying what I know to creating a web application with it but as a
> developer I need to know that my code won't just be another rewrite waiting
> to happen.
>
Several years ago I posted something about Ruby and there was a flurry of
posts: "Is Howard
abandoning Java?" Guess what ... I didn't.
I'm committed to Tapestry even beyond what it represents as a revenue
stream. I expect to see more
releases like 5.1 ... compatible, with new features that seamlessly plug
into existing applications.
More importantly, I want to make the documentation better (in book form, and
online).
In fact, if I never committed another line of code to Tapestry but JUST
wrote a definitive book on it,
that would do more to extend the life and acceptance of Tapestry than
anything else
I could possibly do!
>
> The alternative, JSF, may be clunky but at least I can be certain that it
> will be around and evolving in 5 years time.
>
Yes, they may have gotten through one round of improvement by then :-)
>
> Regards
>
> Steve
>
Steve,
I'm afraid you misunderstand how innovation occurs ... it doesn't happen by
locking someone in a basement
so they can focus on only one thing. Innovation comes from learning
different ideas, different languages,
different technologies and expanding your mind around them.
The Pragmatic Programmers emphasize learning a new language every year and I
like to learn a new technology more often than that.
Many of the innovations you see in Tapestry are ideas that came from other
areas, in other guises.
So don't worry, I'm going to have my fingers in a few different pies ... and
I'm going to learn new things and adapt them back into Tapestry. That's how
I've been working for
20+ years now.
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator of Apache Tapestry
The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to learn
how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
(971) 678-5210
http://howardlewisship.com