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Posted to user@pig.apache.org by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> on 2009/09/11 22:59:26 UTC
Fwd: [Pig Wiki] Update of "FrontPage" by OlgaN
Okay... I can see why some of this would be "Removing duplicate links
to the documentation per discussion on the user list." ... but why
leave that vendor link there? That's already on the Pig home page.
And some of those links which were removed are *not* on the Pig home
page, such as the Cookbook and the Javadocs. And the FAQ link was
dropped.
And why force people through to another page, instead of helping them
out here on the wiki?
I have reservations when lots of helpful links are deleted, yet a
*vendor* link is the only one to remain.
-g
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Apache Wiki <wi...@apache.org>
Date: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 14:11
Subject: [Pig Wiki] Update of "FrontPage" by OlgaN
To: gstein@gmail.com
Dear Wiki user,
You have subscribed to a wiki page or wiki category on "Pig Wiki" for
change notification.
The following page has been changed by OlgaN:
http://wiki.apache.org/pig/FrontPage
The comment on the change is:
Removing duplicate links to the documentation per discussion on the user list.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
== User Documentation ==
+ * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/ User Documentation]
- http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/
-
- (./) Check it out ... updates and new additions.
-
- * New to Pig? Getting Started ...
- 1. PigOverview - An overview of Pig's capabilities
- 1. [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/getstarted.html Pig
Quick Start] - How to build and run Pig
- 1. [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/tutorial.html Pig
Tutorial]- Tackle a real task with pig, start to finish
- 1. [http://www.cloudera.com/hadoop-training-pig-introduction
Online Pig Training] - Complete with video lectures, exercises, and a
pre-configured virtual machine. Developed by Cloudera and Yahoo!
+ * [http://www.cloudera.com/hadoop-training-pig-introduction Online
Pig Training] - Complete with video lectures, exercises, and a
pre-configured virtual machine. Developed by Cloudera and Yahoo!
-
- * Pig Language
-
- * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/piglatin.html Pig
Latin Reference Manual] - Includes Pig Latin, built-in functions, and
shell commands
-
- * Pig Functions
- * PiggyBank - User-defined functions (UDFs) contributed by Pig users!
+ * PiggyBank - User-defined functions (UDFs) contributed by Pig users!
- * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/udf.html UDF Manual] -
Write your own UDFs
-
- * (./) Pig Latin Editors, Pig Python wrappers, and other tools, see PigTools
-
- * More Pig
- * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/cookbook.html Apache
Pig Cookbook] - Want Pig to fly? Tips and tricks on how to write
efficient Pig scripts
- * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/javadoc/docs/api/ Javadocs] -
Refer to the Javadocs for embedded Pig and UDFs
- * [http://wiki.apache.org/pig/FAQ FAQ] - The answer to your
question may be here
-
== Developer Documentation ==
* How tos
RE: [Pig Wiki] Update of "FrontPage" by OlgaN
Posted by Santhosh Srinivasan <sm...@yahoo-inc.com>.
Will it help if Pig provides a "Useful Topics/ Quick Help" link with the most used (useful) links? The home page can point users to the latest release.
Santhosh
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Stein [mailto:gstein@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 2:32 PM
To: Olga Natkovich
Cc: pig-user@hadoop.apache.org
Subject: Re: [Pig Wiki] Update of "FrontPage" by OlgaN
Hey Olga,
Yes, I saw your post to pig-user, which is why I copied the list (I'm not subscribed, so I couldn't directly respond to that post).
The documents are available, of course, but not linked. Where is the FAQ link? I don't see that on the wiki, nor on the Pig site. So in my opinion, you have removed one of the more useful page (who doesn't like a FAQ?!) in favor of preserving a vendor link. I don't think that is proper.
I also do not see how to *immediately* get to the cookbook (also a handy reference!), nor to the javadocs. For those, I need to click through to the Pig site, *then* to the user document, *then* to the topic that I'd like. You're adding a lot of clicks to the process, and removing a lot of visibility to these other pieces of documentation.
And you're *not* doing that for the vendor information.
Do you see how this causes a problem for me?
The ASF is supposed to help out our users, and is supposed to be vendor neutral. The changes that I've seen here are NOT looking that way. I originally edited the Pig wiki page because it didn't even have the word "Apache" on it. That is *very* troublesome. Pig is an Apache project, and that needs to be obvious. It is not some vendor project, and any particular vendor should not have preferential benefit for any of our projects.
Thanks,
-g
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 17:19, Olga Natkovich <ol...@yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
> Hi Greg,
>
> I posted my intent yesterday and explained why we chose to remove the links.
>
> All the documents you mentioned are available on the site:
>
> Cookbook: http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/cookbook.html
> Javadoc: http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/javadoc/docs/api/
> FAQ: http://wiki.apache.org/pig/FAQ
>
> Olga
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Stein [mailto:gstein@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 1:59 PM
> To: Olga Natkovich; pig-user@hadoop.apache.org
> Subject: Fwd: [Pig Wiki] Update of "FrontPage" by OlgaN
>
> Okay... I can see why some of this would be "Removing duplicate links
> to the documentation per discussion on the user list." ... but why
> leave that vendor link there? That's already on the Pig home page.
>
> And some of those links which were removed are *not* on the Pig home
> page, such as the Cookbook and the Javadocs. And the FAQ link was
> dropped.
>
> And why force people through to another page, instead of helping them
> out here on the wiki?
>
> I have reservations when lots of helpful links are deleted, yet a
> *vendor* link is the only one to remain.
>
> -g
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Apache Wiki <wi...@apache.org>
> Date: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 14:11
> Subject: [Pig Wiki] Update of "FrontPage" by OlgaN
> To: gstein@gmail.com
>
>
> Dear Wiki user,
>
> You have subscribed to a wiki page or wiki category on "Pig Wiki" for
> change notification.
>
> The following page has been changed by OlgaN:
> http://wiki.apache.org/pig/FrontPage
>
> The comment on the change is:
> Removing duplicate links to the documentation per discussion on the user list.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
> == User Documentation ==
>
> + * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/ User Documentation]
> - http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/
> -
> - (./) Check it out ... updates and new additions.
> -
> - * New to Pig? Getting Started ...
> - 1. PigOverview - An overview of Pig's capabilities
> - 1. [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/getstarted.html Pig
> Quick Start] - How to build and run Pig
> - 1. [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/tutorial.html Pig
> Tutorial]- Tackle a real task with pig, start to finish
> - 1. [http://www.cloudera.com/hadoop-training-pig-introduction
> Online Pig Training] - Complete with video lectures, exercises, and a
> pre-configured virtual machine. Developed by Cloudera and Yahoo!
> + * [http://www.cloudera.com/hadoop-training-pig-introduction Online
> Pig Training] - Complete with video lectures, exercises, and a
> pre-configured virtual machine. Developed by Cloudera and Yahoo!
> -
> - * Pig Language
> -
> - * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/piglatin.html Pig
> Latin Reference Manual] - Includes Pig Latin, built-in functions, and
> shell commands
> -
> - * Pig Functions
> - * PiggyBank - User-defined functions (UDFs) contributed by Pig users!
> + * PiggyBank - User-defined functions (UDFs) contributed by Pig users!
> - * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/udf.html UDF Manual] -
> Write your own UDFs
> -
> - * (./) Pig Latin Editors, Pig Python wrappers, and other tools, see
> PigTools
> -
> - * More Pig
> - * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/cookbook.html Apache
> Pig Cookbook] - Want Pig to fly? Tips and tricks on how to write
> efficient Pig scripts
> - * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/javadoc/docs/api/ Javadocs] -
> Refer to the Javadocs for embedded Pig and UDFs
> - * [http://wiki.apache.org/pig/FAQ FAQ] - The answer to your
> question may be here
> -
>
> == Developer Documentation ==
> * How tos
>
Re: [Pig Wiki] Update of "FrontPage" by OlgaN
Posted by Alan Gates <ga...@yahoo-inc.com>.
Whether these changes have made it too hard to get to a FAQ etc. or
not, I don't have a strong opinion. But I do want to make clear that
we are not leaving the Cloudera link there to favor a particular
vendor. We feel that tutorial is very helpful for Pig users (a number
of users have given us positive feedback on it) so we want to make
sure it's easy for people to find. If there are other vendor provided
products that are similarly helpful to users, we'll be happy to put
links to them as well. In fact, we should probably put the fact that
Amazon offers Pig as part of Elastic Map Reduce in the News section.
You say we should be vendor neutral. We are being vendor neutral:
every Pig tutorial that we are aware of out there we are linking to.
Alan.
On Sep 11, 2009, at 2:31 PM, Greg Stein wrote:
> Hey Olga,
>
> Yes, I saw your post to pig-user, which is why I copied the list (I'm
> not subscribed, so I couldn't directly respond to that post).
>
> The documents are available, of course, but not linked. Where is the
> FAQ link? I don't see that on the wiki, nor on the Pig site. So in my
> opinion, you have removed one of the more useful page (who doesn't
> like a FAQ?!) in favor of preserving a vendor link. I don't think that
> is proper.
>
> I also do not see how to *immediately* get to the cookbook (also a
> handy reference!), nor to the javadocs. For those, I need to click
> through to the Pig site, *then* to the user document, *then* to the
> topic that I'd like. You're adding a lot of clicks to the process, and
> removing a lot of visibility to these other pieces of documentation.
> And you're *not* doing that for the vendor information.
>
> Do you see how this causes a problem for me?
>
> The ASF is supposed to help out our users, and is supposed to be
> vendor neutral. The changes that I've seen here are NOT looking that
> way. I originally edited the Pig wiki page because it didn't even have
> the word "Apache" on it. That is *very* troublesome. Pig is an Apache
> project, and that needs to be obvious. It is not some vendor project,
> and any particular vendor should not have preferential benefit for any
> of our projects.
>
> Thanks,
> -g
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 17:19, Olga Natkovich <ol...@yahoo-inc.com>
> wrote:
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>> I posted my intent yesterday and explained why we chose to remove
>> the links.
>>
>> All the documents you mentioned are available on the site:
>>
>> Cookbook: http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/cookbook.html
>> Javadoc: http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/javadoc/docs/api/
>> FAQ: http://wiki.apache.org/pig/FAQ
>>
>> Olga
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Greg Stein [mailto:gstein@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 1:59 PM
>> To: Olga Natkovich; pig-user@hadoop.apache.org
>> Subject: Fwd: [Pig Wiki] Update of "FrontPage" by OlgaN
>>
>> Okay... I can see why some of this would be "Removing duplicate links
>> to the documentation per discussion on the user list." ... but why
>> leave that vendor link there? That's already on the Pig home page.
>>
>> And some of those links which were removed are *not* on the Pig home
>> page, such as the Cookbook and the Javadocs. And the FAQ link was
>> dropped.
>>
>> And why force people through to another page, instead of helping them
>> out here on the wiki?
>>
>> I have reservations when lots of helpful links are deleted, yet a
>> *vendor* link is the only one to remain.
>>
>> -g
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Apache Wiki <wi...@apache.org>
>> Date: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 14:11
>> Subject: [Pig Wiki] Update of "FrontPage" by OlgaN
>> To: gstein@gmail.com
>>
>>
>> Dear Wiki user,
>>
>> You have subscribed to a wiki page or wiki category on "Pig Wiki" for
>> change notification.
>>
>> The following page has been changed by OlgaN:
>> http://wiki.apache.org/pig/FrontPage
>>
>> The comment on the change is:
>> Removing duplicate links to the documentation per discussion on the
>> user list.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> == User Documentation ==
>>
>> + * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/ User Documentation]
>> - http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/
>> -
>> - (./) Check it out ... updates and new additions.
>> -
>> - * New to Pig? Getting Started ...
>> - 1. PigOverview - An overview of Pig's capabilities
>> - 1. [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/getstarted.html Pig
>> Quick Start] - How to build and run Pig
>> - 1. [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/tutorial.html Pig
>> Tutorial]- Tackle a real task with pig, start to finish
>> - 1. [http://www.cloudera.com/hadoop-training-pig-introduction
>> Online Pig Training] - Complete with video lectures, exercises, and a
>> pre-configured virtual machine. Developed by Cloudera and Yahoo!
>> + * [http://www.cloudera.com/hadoop-training-pig-introduction Online
>> Pig Training] - Complete with video lectures, exercises, and a
>> pre-configured virtual machine. Developed by Cloudera and Yahoo!
>> -
>> - * Pig Language
>> -
>> - * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/piglatin.html Pig
>> Latin Reference Manual] - Includes Pig Latin, built-in functions, and
>> shell commands
>> -
>> - * Pig Functions
>> - * PiggyBank - User-defined functions (UDFs) contributed by Pig
>> users!
>> + * PiggyBank - User-defined functions (UDFs) contributed by Pig
>> users!
>> - * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/udf.html UDF
>> Manual] -
>> Write your own UDFs
>> -
>> - * (./) Pig Latin Editors, Pig Python wrappers, and other tools,
>> see PigTools
>> -
>> - * More Pig
>> - * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/cookbook.html Apache
>> Pig Cookbook] - Want Pig to fly? Tips and tricks on how to write
>> efficient Pig scripts
>> - * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/javadoc/docs/api/ Javadocs] -
>> Refer to the Javadocs for embedded Pig and UDFs
>> - * [http://wiki.apache.org/pig/FAQ FAQ] - The answer to your
>> question may be here
>> -
>>
>> == Developer Documentation ==
>> * How tos
>>
Re: [Pig Wiki] Update of "FrontPage" by OlgaN
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
Hey Olga,
Yes, I saw your post to pig-user, which is why I copied the list (I'm
not subscribed, so I couldn't directly respond to that post).
The documents are available, of course, but not linked. Where is the
FAQ link? I don't see that on the wiki, nor on the Pig site. So in my
opinion, you have removed one of the more useful page (who doesn't
like a FAQ?!) in favor of preserving a vendor link. I don't think that
is proper.
I also do not see how to *immediately* get to the cookbook (also a
handy reference!), nor to the javadocs. For those, I need to click
through to the Pig site, *then* to the user document, *then* to the
topic that I'd like. You're adding a lot of clicks to the process, and
removing a lot of visibility to these other pieces of documentation.
And you're *not* doing that for the vendor information.
Do you see how this causes a problem for me?
The ASF is supposed to help out our users, and is supposed to be
vendor neutral. The changes that I've seen here are NOT looking that
way. I originally edited the Pig wiki page because it didn't even have
the word "Apache" on it. That is *very* troublesome. Pig is an Apache
project, and that needs to be obvious. It is not some vendor project,
and any particular vendor should not have preferential benefit for any
of our projects.
Thanks,
-g
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 17:19, Olga Natkovich <ol...@yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
> Hi Greg,
>
> I posted my intent yesterday and explained why we chose to remove the links.
>
> All the documents you mentioned are available on the site:
>
> Cookbook: http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/cookbook.html
> Javadoc: http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/javadoc/docs/api/
> FAQ: http://wiki.apache.org/pig/FAQ
>
> Olga
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Stein [mailto:gstein@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 1:59 PM
> To: Olga Natkovich; pig-user@hadoop.apache.org
> Subject: Fwd: [Pig Wiki] Update of "FrontPage" by OlgaN
>
> Okay... I can see why some of this would be "Removing duplicate links
> to the documentation per discussion on the user list." ... but why
> leave that vendor link there? That's already on the Pig home page.
>
> And some of those links which were removed are *not* on the Pig home
> page, such as the Cookbook and the Javadocs. And the FAQ link was
> dropped.
>
> And why force people through to another page, instead of helping them
> out here on the wiki?
>
> I have reservations when lots of helpful links are deleted, yet a
> *vendor* link is the only one to remain.
>
> -g
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Apache Wiki <wi...@apache.org>
> Date: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 14:11
> Subject: [Pig Wiki] Update of "FrontPage" by OlgaN
> To: gstein@gmail.com
>
>
> Dear Wiki user,
>
> You have subscribed to a wiki page or wiki category on "Pig Wiki" for
> change notification.
>
> The following page has been changed by OlgaN:
> http://wiki.apache.org/pig/FrontPage
>
> The comment on the change is:
> Removing duplicate links to the documentation per discussion on the user list.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> == User Documentation ==
>
> + * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/ User Documentation]
> - http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/
> -
> - (./) Check it out ... updates and new additions.
> -
> - * New to Pig? Getting Started ...
> - 1. PigOverview - An overview of Pig's capabilities
> - 1. [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/getstarted.html Pig
> Quick Start] - How to build and run Pig
> - 1. [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/tutorial.html Pig
> Tutorial]- Tackle a real task with pig, start to finish
> - 1. [http://www.cloudera.com/hadoop-training-pig-introduction
> Online Pig Training] - Complete with video lectures, exercises, and a
> pre-configured virtual machine. Developed by Cloudera and Yahoo!
> + * [http://www.cloudera.com/hadoop-training-pig-introduction Online
> Pig Training] - Complete with video lectures, exercises, and a
> pre-configured virtual machine. Developed by Cloudera and Yahoo!
> -
> - * Pig Language
> -
> - * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/piglatin.html Pig
> Latin Reference Manual] - Includes Pig Latin, built-in functions, and
> shell commands
> -
> - * Pig Functions
> - * PiggyBank - User-defined functions (UDFs) contributed by Pig users!
> + * PiggyBank - User-defined functions (UDFs) contributed by Pig users!
> - * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/udf.html UDF Manual] -
> Write your own UDFs
> -
> - * (./) Pig Latin Editors, Pig Python wrappers, and other tools, see PigTools
> -
> - * More Pig
> - * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/cookbook.html Apache
> Pig Cookbook] - Want Pig to fly? Tips and tricks on how to write
> efficient Pig scripts
> - * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/javadoc/docs/api/ Javadocs] -
> Refer to the Javadocs for embedded Pig and UDFs
> - * [http://wiki.apache.org/pig/FAQ FAQ] - The answer to your
> question may be here
> -
>
> == Developer Documentation ==
> * How tos
>
RE: [Pig Wiki] Update of "FrontPage" by OlgaN
Posted by Olga Natkovich <ol...@yahoo-inc.com>.
Hi Greg,
I posted my intent yesterday and explained why we chose to remove the links.
All the documents you mentioned are available on the site:
Cookbook: http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/cookbook.html
Javadoc: http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/javadoc/docs/api/
FAQ: http://wiki.apache.org/pig/FAQ
Olga
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Stein [mailto:gstein@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 1:59 PM
To: Olga Natkovich; pig-user@hadoop.apache.org
Subject: Fwd: [Pig Wiki] Update of "FrontPage" by OlgaN
Okay... I can see why some of this would be "Removing duplicate links
to the documentation per discussion on the user list." ... but why
leave that vendor link there? That's already on the Pig home page.
And some of those links which were removed are *not* on the Pig home
page, such as the Cookbook and the Javadocs. And the FAQ link was
dropped.
And why force people through to another page, instead of helping them
out here on the wiki?
I have reservations when lots of helpful links are deleted, yet a
*vendor* link is the only one to remain.
-g
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Apache Wiki <wi...@apache.org>
Date: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 14:11
Subject: [Pig Wiki] Update of "FrontPage" by OlgaN
To: gstein@gmail.com
Dear Wiki user,
You have subscribed to a wiki page or wiki category on "Pig Wiki" for
change notification.
The following page has been changed by OlgaN:
http://wiki.apache.org/pig/FrontPage
The comment on the change is:
Removing duplicate links to the documentation per discussion on the user list.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
== User Documentation ==
+ * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/ User Documentation]
- http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/
-
- (./) Check it out ... updates and new additions.
-
- * New to Pig? Getting Started ...
- 1. PigOverview - An overview of Pig's capabilities
- 1. [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/getstarted.html Pig
Quick Start] - How to build and run Pig
- 1. [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/tutorial.html Pig
Tutorial]- Tackle a real task with pig, start to finish
- 1. [http://www.cloudera.com/hadoop-training-pig-introduction
Online Pig Training] - Complete with video lectures, exercises, and a
pre-configured virtual machine. Developed by Cloudera and Yahoo!
+ * [http://www.cloudera.com/hadoop-training-pig-introduction Online
Pig Training] - Complete with video lectures, exercises, and a
pre-configured virtual machine. Developed by Cloudera and Yahoo!
-
- * Pig Language
-
- * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/piglatin.html Pig
Latin Reference Manual] - Includes Pig Latin, built-in functions, and
shell commands
-
- * Pig Functions
- * PiggyBank - User-defined functions (UDFs) contributed by Pig users!
+ * PiggyBank - User-defined functions (UDFs) contributed by Pig users!
- * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/udf.html UDF Manual] -
Write your own UDFs
-
- * (./) Pig Latin Editors, Pig Python wrappers, and other tools, see PigTools
-
- * More Pig
- * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/docs/r0.3.0/cookbook.html Apache
Pig Cookbook] - Want Pig to fly? Tips and tricks on how to write
efficient Pig scripts
- * [http://hadoop.apache.org/pig/javadoc/docs/api/ Javadocs] -
Refer to the Javadocs for embedded Pig and UDFs
- * [http://wiki.apache.org/pig/FAQ FAQ] - The answer to your
question may be here
-
== Developer Documentation ==
* How tos