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Posted to dev@logging.apache.org by Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com> on 2019/07/13 00:02:06 UTC
Code of Conduct
First, I don’t perceive the logging project as having a problem with people’s code of conduct. But some of the reading I have done has indicated that some people feel more welcomed by communities that publish a code of conduct. I am wondering how you all feel about adding https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.md <https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.md> to our site and then, of course, doing our best to make sure we adhere to it.
I personally am in favor of welcoming anyone who wants to participate in any of the logging projects. Many of them need more attention.
Thoughts?
Ralph
Re: Code of Conduct
Posted by William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
The reason that ASF guidelines are more useful is that we can iterate over
them, rev it 1.1 or 2.0 and we speak from our own collective experience.
While the authors of a third party CoC could be receptive, it doesn't
follow our development methodology, and we can be blindsided by their edits
in the months or years we aren't paying attention.
If the committee decides to adopt the ASF policy, problems can be fixed.
Cheers
Bill
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019, 20:51 Remko Popma <re...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I spent some time reading both and I also like the ASF guidelines better.
>
> I like the ASF guidelines’ emphasis on values and assuming good
> intentions. Especially that last bit is missing from the Contributor
> Covenant Code of Conduct, which seems a bit more distrustful of people’s
> intentions and (in my view) seems more interested in preventing/punishing
> bad behavior than encouraging good behavior.
>
> Remko
>
>
>
> > On Jul 14, 2019, at 2:14, Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I believe I like the ASF guidelines better than the link I provided. I
> think following Sling’s example makes a lot of sense.
> >
> > Ralph
> >
> >> On Jul 13, 2019, at 10:08 AM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I’ve had to reference the ASF CoC only once so far, though it wasn’t too
> >> egregious (mostly trolling). I think it’d be a good idea to work on one
> >> here. We could possibly start with that one, or we could work toward
> >> improvements if we can identify any.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 03:48, Simone Tripodi <simonetripodi@apache.org
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi, Ralph!
> >>> In case you want to read more, (I don't know if you are aware of it,
> >>> apologise in advance in that case) the ASF also published a code of
> >>> conduct[1], I think you can have a look at it and having another
> >>> source that could help choosing the right words.
> >>> In Apache Sling we use to add the CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md file to every
> >>> repo on git, linking to the main ASF page, like in [2]
> >>> HTH,
> >>> ~Simo
> >>>
> >>> [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct.html
> >>> [2]
> >>>
> https://github.com/apache/sling-org-apache-sling-feature-cpconverter/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
> >>>
> >>> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
> >>> http://twitter.com/simonetripodi
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 2:25 AM Ralph Goers <
> ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> FWIW, if you (meaning everyone who reads this) are in favor of the
> idea
> >>> I would recommend reading it, walking away, and then reading it again
> and
> >>> then determining if you like it as is or if some minor changes need to
> be
> >>> made. I’ve just read another article where the wording of a code of
> conduct
> >>> caused problems because it seemed to favor some groups over others.
> >>> Although it is an extremely hard task, my feeling is that everyone
> should
> >>> be welcome, treated equally, and with respect. That isn’t always easy
> to
> >>> word correctly in a code of conduct.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ralph
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Jul 12, 2019, at 5:20 PM, Carter Kozak <ck...@ckozak.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Great idea Ralph. I'm in favor of adding this and anything else we
> can
> >>> do to make more people feel comfortable contributing!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -ck
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, at 20:02, Ralph Goers wrote:
> >>>>>> First, I don’t perceive the logging project as having a problem with
> >>> people’s code of conduct. But some of the reading I have done has
> indicated
> >>> that some people feel more welcomed by communities that publish a code
> of
> >>> conduct. I am wondering how you all feel about adding
> >>> https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.md <
> >>> https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.md>
> to
> >>> our site and then, of course, doing our best to make sure we adhere to
> it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I personally am in favor of welcoming anyone who wants to
> participate
> >>> in any of the logging projects. Many of them need more attention.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thoughts?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ralph
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> --
> >> Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
> >
> >
>
Re: Code of Conduct
Posted by Remko Popma <re...@gmail.com>.
I spent some time reading both and I also like the ASF guidelines better.
I like the ASF guidelines’ emphasis on values and assuming good intentions. Especially that last bit is missing from the Contributor Covenant Code of Conduct, which seems a bit more distrustful of people’s intentions and (in my view) seems more interested in preventing/punishing bad behavior than encouraging good behavior.
Remko
> On Jul 14, 2019, at 2:14, Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>
> I believe I like the ASF guidelines better than the link I provided. I think following Sling’s example makes a lot of sense.
>
> Ralph
>
>> On Jul 13, 2019, at 10:08 AM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I’ve had to reference the ASF CoC only once so far, though it wasn’t too
>> egregious (mostly trolling). I think it’d be a good idea to work on one
>> here. We could possibly start with that one, or we could work toward
>> improvements if we can identify any.
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 03:48, Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, Ralph!
>>> In case you want to read more, (I don't know if you are aware of it,
>>> apologise in advance in that case) the ASF also published a code of
>>> conduct[1], I think you can have a look at it and having another
>>> source that could help choosing the right words.
>>> In Apache Sling we use to add the CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md file to every
>>> repo on git, linking to the main ASF page, like in [2]
>>> HTH,
>>> ~Simo
>>>
>>> [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct.html
>>> [2]
>>> https://github.com/apache/sling-org-apache-sling-feature-cpconverter/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
>>>
>>> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
>>> http://twitter.com/simonetripodi
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 2:25 AM Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> FWIW, if you (meaning everyone who reads this) are in favor of the idea
>>> I would recommend reading it, walking away, and then reading it again and
>>> then determining if you like it as is or if some minor changes need to be
>>> made. I’ve just read another article where the wording of a code of conduct
>>> caused problems because it seemed to favor some groups over others.
>>> Although it is an extremely hard task, my feeling is that everyone should
>>> be welcome, treated equally, and with respect. That isn’t always easy to
>>> word correctly in a code of conduct.
>>>>
>>>> Ralph
>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 12, 2019, at 5:20 PM, Carter Kozak <ck...@ckozak.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Great idea Ralph. I'm in favor of adding this and anything else we can
>>> do to make more people feel comfortable contributing!
>>>>>
>>>>> -ck
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, at 20:02, Ralph Goers wrote:
>>>>>> First, I don’t perceive the logging project as having a problem with
>>> people’s code of conduct. But some of the reading I have done has indicated
>>> that some people feel more welcomed by communities that publish a code of
>>> conduct. I am wondering how you all feel about adding
>>> https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.md <
>>> https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.md> to
>>> our site and then, of course, doing our best to make sure we adhere to it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I personally am in favor of welcoming anyone who wants to participate
>>> in any of the logging projects. Many of them need more attention.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ralph
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
>
>
Re: Code of Conduct
Posted by Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>.
I believe I like the ASF guidelines better than the link I provided. I think following Sling’s example makes a lot of sense.
Ralph
> On Jul 13, 2019, at 10:08 AM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I’ve had to reference the ASF CoC only once so far, though it wasn’t too
> egregious (mostly trolling). I think it’d be a good idea to work on one
> here. We could possibly start with that one, or we could work toward
> improvements if we can identify any.
>
> On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 03:48, Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Ralph!
>> In case you want to read more, (I don't know if you are aware of it,
>> apologise in advance in that case) the ASF also published a code of
>> conduct[1], I think you can have a look at it and having another
>> source that could help choosing the right words.
>> In Apache Sling we use to add the CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md file to every
>> repo on git, linking to the main ASF page, like in [2]
>> HTH,
>> ~Simo
>>
>> [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct.html
>> [2]
>> https://github.com/apache/sling-org-apache-sling-feature-cpconverter/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
>>
>> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
>> http://twitter.com/simonetripodi
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 2:25 AM Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> FWIW, if you (meaning everyone who reads this) are in favor of the idea
>> I would recommend reading it, walking away, and then reading it again and
>> then determining if you like it as is or if some minor changes need to be
>> made. I’ve just read another article where the wording of a code of conduct
>> caused problems because it seemed to favor some groups over others.
>> Although it is an extremely hard task, my feeling is that everyone should
>> be welcome, treated equally, and with respect. That isn’t always easy to
>> word correctly in a code of conduct.
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>>> On Jul 12, 2019, at 5:20 PM, Carter Kozak <ck...@ckozak.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Great idea Ralph. I'm in favor of adding this and anything else we can
>> do to make more people feel comfortable contributing!
>>>>
>>>> -ck
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, at 20:02, Ralph Goers wrote:
>>>>> First, I don’t perceive the logging project as having a problem with
>> people’s code of conduct. But some of the reading I have done has indicated
>> that some people feel more welcomed by communities that publish a code of
>> conduct. I am wondering how you all feel about adding
>> https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.md <
>> https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.md> to
>> our site and then, of course, doing our best to make sure we adhere to it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I personally am in favor of welcoming anyone who wants to participate
>> in any of the logging projects. Many of them need more attention.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ralph
>>>
>>>
>>
> --
> Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
Re: Code of Conduct
Posted by Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>.
I’ve had to reference the ASF CoC only once so far, though it wasn’t too
egregious (mostly trolling). I think it’d be a good idea to work on one
here. We could possibly start with that one, or we could work toward
improvements if we can identify any.
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 03:48, Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Hi, Ralph!
> In case you want to read more, (I don't know if you are aware of it,
> apologise in advance in that case) the ASF also published a code of
> conduct[1], I think you can have a look at it and having another
> source that could help choosing the right words.
> In Apache Sling we use to add the CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md file to every
> repo on git, linking to the main ASF page, like in [2]
> HTH,
> ~Simo
>
> [1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct.html
> [2]
> https://github.com/apache/sling-org-apache-sling-feature-cpconverter/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
>
> http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
> http://twitter.com/simonetripodi
>
> On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 2:25 AM Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > FWIW, if you (meaning everyone who reads this) are in favor of the idea
> I would recommend reading it, walking away, and then reading it again and
> then determining if you like it as is or if some minor changes need to be
> made. I’ve just read another article where the wording of a code of conduct
> caused problems because it seemed to favor some groups over others.
> Although it is an extremely hard task, my feeling is that everyone should
> be welcome, treated equally, and with respect. That isn’t always easy to
> word correctly in a code of conduct.
> >
> > Ralph
> >
> > > On Jul 12, 2019, at 5:20 PM, Carter Kozak <ck...@ckozak.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Great idea Ralph. I'm in favor of adding this and anything else we can
> do to make more people feel comfortable contributing!
> > >
> > > -ck
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, at 20:02, Ralph Goers wrote:
> > >> First, I don’t perceive the logging project as having a problem with
> people’s code of conduct. But some of the reading I have done has indicated
> that some people feel more welcomed by communities that publish a code of
> conduct. I am wondering how you all feel about adding
> https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.md <
> https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.md> to
> our site and then, of course, doing our best to make sure we adhere to it.
> > >>
> > >> I personally am in favor of welcoming anyone who wants to participate
> in any of the logging projects. Many of them need more attention.
> > >>
> > >> Thoughts?
> > >>
> > >> Ralph
> >
> >
>
--
Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
Re: Code of Conduct
Posted by Simone Tripodi <si...@apache.org>.
Hi, Ralph!
In case you want to read more, (I don't know if you are aware of it,
apologise in advance in that case) the ASF also published a code of
conduct[1], I think you can have a look at it and having another
source that could help choosing the right words.
In Apache Sling we use to add the CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md file to every
repo on git, linking to the main ASF page, like in [2]
HTH,
~Simo
[1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct.html
[2] https://github.com/apache/sling-org-apache-sling-feature-cpconverter/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
http://twitter.com/simonetripodi
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 2:25 AM Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>
> FWIW, if you (meaning everyone who reads this) are in favor of the idea I would recommend reading it, walking away, and then reading it again and then determining if you like it as is or if some minor changes need to be made. I’ve just read another article where the wording of a code of conduct caused problems because it seemed to favor some groups over others. Although it is an extremely hard task, my feeling is that everyone should be welcome, treated equally, and with respect. That isn’t always easy to word correctly in a code of conduct.
>
> Ralph
>
> > On Jul 12, 2019, at 5:20 PM, Carter Kozak <ck...@ckozak.net> wrote:
> >
> > Great idea Ralph. I'm in favor of adding this and anything else we can do to make more people feel comfortable contributing!
> >
> > -ck
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, at 20:02, Ralph Goers wrote:
> >> First, I don’t perceive the logging project as having a problem with people’s code of conduct. But some of the reading I have done has indicated that some people feel more welcomed by communities that publish a code of conduct. I am wondering how you all feel about adding https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.md <https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.md> to our site and then, of course, doing our best to make sure we adhere to it.
> >>
> >> I personally am in favor of welcoming anyone who wants to participate in any of the logging projects. Many of them need more attention.
> >>
> >> Thoughts?
> >>
> >> Ralph
>
>
Re: Code of Conduct
Posted by Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>.
FWIW, if you (meaning everyone who reads this) are in favor of the idea I would recommend reading it, walking away, and then reading it again and then determining if you like it as is or if some minor changes need to be made. I’ve just read another article where the wording of a code of conduct caused problems because it seemed to favor some groups over others. Although it is an extremely hard task, my feeling is that everyone should be welcome, treated equally, and with respect. That isn’t always easy to word correctly in a code of conduct.
Ralph
> On Jul 12, 2019, at 5:20 PM, Carter Kozak <ck...@ckozak.net> wrote:
>
> Great idea Ralph. I'm in favor of adding this and anything else we can do to make more people feel comfortable contributing!
>
> -ck
>
> On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, at 20:02, Ralph Goers wrote:
>> First, I don’t perceive the logging project as having a problem with people’s code of conduct. But some of the reading I have done has indicated that some people feel more welcomed by communities that publish a code of conduct. I am wondering how you all feel about adding https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.md <https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.md> to our site and then, of course, doing our best to make sure we adhere to it.
>>
>> I personally am in favor of welcoming anyone who wants to participate in any of the logging projects. Many of them need more attention.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Ralph
Re: Code of Conduct
Posted by Carter Kozak <ck...@ckozak.net>.
Great idea Ralph. I'm in favor of adding this and anything else we can do to make more people feel comfortable contributing!
-ck
On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, at 20:02, Ralph Goers wrote:
> First, I don’t perceive the logging project as having a problem with people’s code of conduct. But some of the reading I have done has indicated that some people feel more welcomed by communities that publish a code of conduct. I am wondering how you all feel about adding https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.md <https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.md> to our site and then, of course, doing our best to make sure we adhere to it.
>
> I personally am in favor of welcoming anyone who wants to participate in any of the logging projects. Many of them need more attention.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Ralph