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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> on 2003/05/12 17:17:00 UTC
[math] mavenization?
should math be a mavenized?
in other words, should math use maven as it's primary build tool and to
generate the website (rather than the ant build). your opinions, please.
- robert
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Re: [math] mavenization?
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
Here's a reference to the plugin.
http://maven.apache.org/reference/plugins/ant/index.html
Mark R. Diggory wrote:
> I think working with maven from the start is ideal. I think you can
> also use Maven to "generate" ant build scripts for deployments as well?
>
> -Mark
>
> robert burrell donkin wrote:
>
>> should math be a mavenized?
>>
>> in other words, should math use maven as it's primary build tool and
>> to generate the website (rather than the ant build). your opinions,
>> please.
>>
>> - robert
>>
>>
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Re: [math] mavenization?
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
I think working with maven from the start is ideal. I think you can also
use Maven to "generate" ant build scripts for deployments as well?
-Mark
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> should math be a mavenized?
>
> in other words, should math use maven as it's primary build tool and
> to generate the website (rather than the ant build). your opinions,
> please.
>
> - robert
>
>
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Re: [math] mavenization?
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
Not all projects have maven.xml's or want to have them, but thanks for the
link. I've talked on the maven list about doing this for Commons before,
but I never seem to find the time :)
Hen
On Mon, 12 May 2003, Ryan Hoegg wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I recently discussed this a bit with some maven users. Have a look at
> http://db.apache.org, they have found nice ways to aggregate project
> sites using maven. In particular, they pointed me to the maven.xml for
> db-site here:
> http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/db-site/maven.xml?rev=1.5&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
>
> I imagine we could build something like that into each commons
> component's maven.xml
>
> --
> Ryan Hoegg
> ISIS Networks
> http://www.isisnetworks.net
>
> Henri Yandell wrote:
>
> >Sorry, rushed wording on my part.
> >
> >Maven, or rather the Forrest skin output of Maven, is not configured to
> >output the sibling structure of Commons in which every project lists the
> >other projects in Commons. So once you get into a particular project,
> >let's say BeanUtils, you cannot see any way up the structure. In fact, all
> >you can do is goto www.apache.org in that instance.
> >
> >This is true of all/nearly-all the maven generated Commons sites. It's not
> >Maven's fault but rather an effect of the slow unorganised migration to
> >Maven and a lack of requirements for Commons sites.
> >
> >In effect I think it is turning each Commons project into its own site and
> >not a series of components that form the Commons site. Another reason why
> >this is a problem is nothing to do with Maven but to do with the number of
> >proejcts in Commons. The old-sites are struggling to handle the nearly 40
> >projects in a structured way.
> >
> >But it's mainly the maven generated sites which are killing the commons
> >site. Probably the solution is to redo the front page and enforce that all
> >components of Commons provide links up to Commons. Maybe we need a
> >'Jakarta Commons' logo to go in the top left, rather than Apache
> >[beanutils] or Jakarta [eg DBCP]. Not sure we can fit: The Apache Jakarta
> >Commons Project in a nice logo :)
> >
> >Hen
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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Re: [math] mavenization?
Posted by Ryan Hoegg <rh...@isisnetworks.net>.
Hi,
I recently discussed this a bit with some maven users. Have a look at
http://db.apache.org, they have found nice ways to aggregate project
sites using maven. In particular, they pointed me to the maven.xml for
db-site here:
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/db-site/maven.xml?rev=1.5&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
I imagine we could build something like that into each commons
component's maven.xml
--
Ryan Hoegg
ISIS Networks
http://www.isisnetworks.net
Henri Yandell wrote:
>Sorry, rushed wording on my part.
>
>Maven, or rather the Forrest skin output of Maven, is not configured to
>output the sibling structure of Commons in which every project lists the
>other projects in Commons. So once you get into a particular project,
>let's say BeanUtils, you cannot see any way up the structure. In fact, all
>you can do is goto www.apache.org in that instance.
>
>This is true of all/nearly-all the maven generated Commons sites. It's not
>Maven's fault but rather an effect of the slow unorganised migration to
>Maven and a lack of requirements for Commons sites.
>
>In effect I think it is turning each Commons project into its own site and
>not a series of components that form the Commons site. Another reason why
>this is a problem is nothing to do with Maven but to do with the number of
>proejcts in Commons. The old-sites are struggling to handle the nearly 40
>projects in a structured way.
>
>But it's mainly the maven generated sites which are killing the commons
>site. Probably the solution is to redo the front page and enforce that all
>components of Commons provide links up to Commons. Maybe we need a
>'Jakarta Commons' logo to go in the top left, rather than Apache
>[beanutils] or Jakarta [eg DBCP]. Not sure we can fit: The Apache Jakarta
>Commons Project in a nice logo :)
>
>Hen
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [math] mavenization?
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
I did my site in such a way that it has "Subprojects".
http://repast-jellytag.sourceforge.net/index.html.
It is a little tricky. But I used the DB site (http://db.apache.org/) as
an example and extended its capabilities. Basically I have some custom
Maven goals which "graze" the POM's structure and build a template for
the navigation, then each subproject uses this template to generate its
navigation bar, this way the navigation bar looks consistent across all
the projects and sections of its content can be controlled by the the
main site generation project.
-Mark
Henri Yandell wrote:
>On Mon, 12 May 2003, Mark R. Diggory wrote:
>
>
>
>>Henri Yandell wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I tend to use Maven for new projects, though I think that the maven
>>>generated sites are slowly killing Commons as an environment and would
>>>like to see some standardisation across the Commons sites.
>>>
>>>Mainly I think it depends on who is likely to be doing release management
>>>and what their preference is. I'm +1 for Maven.
>>>
>>>Hen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Just curious and not sure what you mean, "slowly killing Commons as an
>>environment" in what way?
>>
>>
>
>Sorry, rushed wording on my part.
>
>Maven, or rather the Forrest skin output of Maven, is not configured to
>output the sibling structure of Commons in which every project lists the
>other projects in Commons. So once you get into a particular project,
>let's say BeanUtils, you cannot see any way up the structure. In fact, all
>you can do is goto www.apache.org in that instance.
>
>This is true of all/nearly-all the maven generated Commons sites. It's not
>Maven's fault but rather an effect of the slow unorganised migration to
>Maven and a lack of requirements for Commons sites.
>
>In effect I think it is turning each Commons project into its own site and
>not a series of components that form the Commons site. Another reason why
>this is a problem is nothing to do with Maven but to do with the number of
>proejcts in Commons. The old-sites are struggling to handle the nearly 40
>projects in a structured way.
>
>But it's mainly the maven generated sites which are killing the commons
>site. Probably the solution is to redo the front page and enforce that all
>components of Commons provide links up to Commons. Maybe we need a
>'Jakarta Commons' logo to go in the top left, rather than Apache
>[beanutils] or Jakarta [eg DBCP]. Not sure we can fit: The Apache Jakarta
>Commons Project in a nice logo :)
>
>Hen
>
>
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>
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Re: [math] mavenization?
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@steitz.com>.
O'brien, Tim wrote:
> On math's possibly impending "mavenization" - if people were to decide
> that a Maven site was desired it would probably look something like
> this: http://cvs.apache.org/~tobrien/math
>
> The most important thing for math is going to be the project reports
> relating to coverage and unit tests.
>
Works for me.
Phil
> Tim
>
>
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Re: [math] mavenization?
Posted by "O'brien, Tim" <to...@transolutions.net>.
On math's possibly impending "mavenization" - if people were to decide
that a Maven site was desired it would probably look something like
this: http://cvs.apache.org/~tobrien/math
The most important thing for math is going to be the project reports
relating to coverage and unit tests.
Tim
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Re: [math] mavenization?
Posted by "O'brien, Tim" <to...@transolutions.net>.
On Thu, 2003-05-15 at 01:37, dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
<snip...>
> Yep, we need to resurrect the commons-as-a-maven-site idea again.
http://cvs.apache.org/~tobrien/commons
http://cvs.apache.org/~tobrien/commons/changelog-report.html
http://cvs.apache.org/~tobrien/commons/components.html
I read your email and decided to throw caution to the wind and just try
"maven site:generate" from jakarta-commons. It seems to work, it takes
a long while to run, but IMHO it looks good. I'd imagine that someone
spent some time getting this to work properly a while back - if that
isn't the case, then I'm impressed.
Now, there are some glitches here and there, but it would be relatively
easy to get everything to work 100%. Some project sites are checked
into CVS and updated from daedalus and other sites are generated using
Maven and copied over to daedalus directly.
We might want to unify our approach in that respect. Possibly generate
all commons projects and copy them over to daedalus on a periodic /
automatic basis.
Tim
>
> --
> dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
> Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog
> Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
>
>
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Re: [math] mavenization?
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
Henri Yandell wrote:
>>organized, it can be hard to work out that a component is part of the
>>commons and it's even harder to find the common information pertaining to
>>all projects. non-mavenized components use the jakarta-commons layout and
>>are much better linked into the whole.
>>
>>i wonder whether it might be possible to provide a common (and centrally
>>maintained) section for the maven generated sidebar which contained links
>>back into information held on the main commons site.
>
>
> It would be cool, being able to inherit a section into the top of the
> navigation.xml.
>
> I think we need to drop the list of sibling components from the left hand
> bar in Commons projects. It is getting too large anyway and would mean
> redeploying the Commons site with each maven site generation, so a bit
> heavy on a machine/bandwidth.
>
> Hen
>
Here's an example of using Maven to generate a "home" section and a list
of projects on the sidebar. Feel free to canabalize the script.
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/repast-jellytag/repast-jelly-taglibrary/maven.xml?rev=1.11&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
I used this instead of the avalon templating strategy on dbsite. It uses
Jelly to generate a navigation.xml for central site, it then uses that
navigation.xml in all the subproject sites as well.
-Mark
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Re: [math] mavenization?
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Thu, 15 May 2003, robert burrell donkin wrote:
> On Thursday, May 15, 2003, at 07:37 AM, dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
>
> i think that there are a two separate issues here.
Yep.
> the first is the skinning. some pages use the 'white' or jakarta look.
> others use the 'blue' or mavenized look. the issue here probably isn't
> maven....<snip>
Yep. The majority are now mavenised now, so I think it might not be as
politically hard as it seems to move to maven l&f.
> the second is the way that the site is linked together. maven generated
> components don't contain any links back into the commons site or to the
> information held there. unless you know how jakarta and the commons is
Some do, but not in any kind of uniform way.
> organized, it can be hard to work out that a component is part of the
> commons and it's even harder to find the common information pertaining to
> all projects. non-mavenized components use the jakarta-commons layout and
> are much better linked into the whole.
>
> i wonder whether it might be possible to provide a common (and centrally
> maintained) section for the maven generated sidebar which contained links
> back into information held on the main commons site.
It would be cool, being able to inherit a section into the top of the
navigation.xml.
I think we need to drop the list of sibling components from the left hand
bar in Commons projects. It is getting too large anyway and would mean
redeploying the Commons site with each maven site generation, so a bit
heavy on a machine/bandwidth.
Hen
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Re: [math] mavenization?
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
On Thursday, May 15, 2003, at 07:37 AM, dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
> Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com> wrote on 15/05/2003 04:14:58 PM:
<snip>
>> The Commons maven sites are radically different in information
>> architecture to the pre-existing Commons sites, which as more maven
> sites
>> are added is creating a less cohesive and more federated/independent
>> structure [not that I'm saying that is bad].
> Yep, we need to resurrect the commons-as-a-maven-site idea again.
i think that there are a two separate issues here.
the first is the skinning. some pages use the 'white' or jakarta look.
others use the 'blue' or mavenized look. the issue here probably isn't
really mavenization so much as getting everyone to agree on a common skin.
commons tends to devolve decision making to the components as far as
possible. i'd guess that we'd have a hard time reaching consensus on which
is better and it'd be hard to convince components who were particularly
attached to a particular skin to change.
the second is the way that the site is linked together. maven generated
components don't contain any links back into the commons site or to the
information held there. unless you know how jakarta and the commons is
organized, it can be hard to work out that a component is part of the
commons and it's even harder to find the common information pertaining to
all projects. non-mavenized components use the jakarta-commons layout and
are much better linked into the whole.
i wonder whether it might be possible to provide a common (and centrally
maintained) section for the maven generated sidebar which contained links
back into information held on the main commons site.
- robert
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Re: [math] mavenization?
Posted by di...@multitask.com.au.
Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com> wrote on 15/05/2003 04:14:58 PM:
> I was trying to specify the l&f that maven uses. Isn't it a Forrest
skin?
Nope....
> The Commons maven sites are radically different in information
> architecture to the pre-existing Commons sites, which as more maven
sites
> are added is creating a less cohesive and more federated/independent
> structure [not that I'm saying that is bad].
Yep, we need to resurrect the commons-as-a-maven-site idea again.
--
dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog
Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
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Re: [math] mavenization?
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
I was trying to specify the l&f that maven uses. Isn't it a Forrest skin?
The Commons maven sites are radically different in information
architecture to the pre-existing Commons sites, which as more maven sites
are added is creating a less cohesive and more federated/independent
structure [not that I'm saying that is bad].
Hen
On Thu, 15 May 2003 dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
> Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com> wrote on 13/05/2003 02:49:33 AM:
>
> > Maven, or rather the Forrest skin output of Maven, is not configured to
> Where is this Forrest skin output feature of Maven??
>
> --
> dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
> Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog
> Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
>
>
>
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Re: [math] mavenization?
Posted by di...@multitask.com.au.
Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com> wrote on 13/05/2003 02:49:33 AM:
> Maven, or rather the Forrest skin output of Maven, is not configured to
Where is this Forrest skin output feature of Maven??
--
dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog
Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
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Re: [math] mavenization?
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Mon, 12 May 2003, Mark R. Diggory wrote:
> Henri Yandell wrote:
>
> >I tend to use Maven for new projects, though I think that the maven
> >generated sites are slowly killing Commons as an environment and would
> >like to see some standardisation across the Commons sites.
> >
> >Mainly I think it depends on who is likely to be doing release management
> >and what their preference is. I'm +1 for Maven.
> >
> >Hen
> >
> >
>
> Just curious and not sure what you mean, "slowly killing Commons as an
> environment" in what way?
Sorry, rushed wording on my part.
Maven, or rather the Forrest skin output of Maven, is not configured to
output the sibling structure of Commons in which every project lists the
other projects in Commons. So once you get into a particular project,
let's say BeanUtils, you cannot see any way up the structure. In fact, all
you can do is goto www.apache.org in that instance.
This is true of all/nearly-all the maven generated Commons sites. It's not
Maven's fault but rather an effect of the slow unorganised migration to
Maven and a lack of requirements for Commons sites.
In effect I think it is turning each Commons project into its own site and
not a series of components that form the Commons site. Another reason why
this is a problem is nothing to do with Maven but to do with the number of
proejcts in Commons. The old-sites are struggling to handle the nearly 40
projects in a structured way.
But it's mainly the maven generated sites which are killing the commons
site. Probably the solution is to redo the front page and enforce that all
components of Commons provide links up to Commons. Maybe we need a
'Jakarta Commons' logo to go in the top left, rather than Apache
[beanutils] or Jakarta [eg DBCP]. Not sure we can fit: The Apache Jakarta
Commons Project in a nice logo :)
Hen
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Re: [math] mavenization?
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
Henri Yandell wrote:
>I tend to use Maven for new projects, though I think that the maven
>generated sites are slowly killing Commons as an environment and would
>like to see some standardisation across the Commons sites.
>
>Mainly I think it depends on who is likely to be doing release management
>and what their preference is. I'm +1 for Maven.
>
>Hen
>
>
Just curious and not sure what you mean, "slowly killing Commons as an
environment" in what way?
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Re: [math] mavenization?
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
I tend to use Maven for new projects, though I think that the maven
generated sites are slowly killing Commons as an environment and would
like to see some standardisation across the Commons sites.
Mainly I think it depends on who is likely to be doing release management
and what their preference is. I'm +1 for Maven.
Hen
On Mon, 12 May 2003, Mark R. Diggory wrote:
> Again, I would suggest that because the project is just starting out, it
> would pay greatly to use Maven to generate your build scripts and site,
> it will save you alot of headaches later if you trying to setup parallel
> Maven and Ant build approaches. Again, Maven can generate Ant build
> script for you that will capture most of your required compile, jar,
> test targets. Think of it as having one "primary developer" whose going
> to manage the Maven generation stuff, and all the other developers will
> just use the Ant scripts for testing. I highly recommend you take this
> strategy as well, to be able to integrate into with the Gump nightly
> build/testing process. Lastly, it will set the site up with the
> "standardized" Maven directory layout and save alot of headaches
> concerning what goes where.
>
> -Mark
>
> Juozas Baliuka wrote:
>
> >I prefer to have both ways,
> >"plain" ant is a very good tool for the most of users to build jar, run
> >test.
> >Maven is a better way for developers as integrated set of the most usefull
> >tools.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "robert burrell donkin" <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>
> >To: "Jakarta Commons Developers List" <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 5:17 PM
> >Subject: [math] mavenization?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>should math be a mavenized?
> >>
> >>in other words, should math use maven as it's primary build tool and to
> >>generate the website (rather than the ant build). your opinions, please.
> >>
> >>- robert
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >
> >
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> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [math] mavenization?
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
Again, I would suggest that because the project is just starting out, it
would pay greatly to use Maven to generate your build scripts and site,
it will save you alot of headaches later if you trying to setup parallel
Maven and Ant build approaches. Again, Maven can generate Ant build
script for you that will capture most of your required compile, jar,
test targets. Think of it as having one "primary developer" whose going
to manage the Maven generation stuff, and all the other developers will
just use the Ant scripts for testing. I highly recommend you take this
strategy as well, to be able to integrate into with the Gump nightly
build/testing process. Lastly, it will set the site up with the
"standardized" Maven directory layout and save alot of headaches
concerning what goes where.
-Mark
Juozas Baliuka wrote:
>I prefer to have both ways,
>"plain" ant is a very good tool for the most of users to build jar, run
>test.
>Maven is a better way for developers as integrated set of the most usefull
>tools.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "robert burrell donkin" <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>
>To: "Jakarta Commons Developers List" <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
>Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 5:17 PM
>Subject: [math] mavenization?
>
>
>
>
>>should math be a mavenized?
>>
>>in other words, should math use maven as it's primary build tool and to
>>generate the website (rather than the ant build). your opinions, please.
>>
>>- robert
>>
>>
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Re: [math] mavenization?
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@steitz.com>.
Juozas Baliuka wrote:
> I prefer to have both ways,
> "plain" ant is a very good tool for the most of users to build jar, run
> test.
> Maven is a better way for developers as integrated set of the most usefull
> tools.
I agree. I would prefer to be able to use "plain" ant for the
build-test cycle, but admitedly that is partly based on my limited
experience with maven.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "robert burrell donkin" <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>
> To: "Jakarta Commons Developers List" <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 5:17 PM
> Subject: [math] mavenization?
>
>
>
>>should math be a mavenized?
>>
>>in other words, should math use maven as it's primary build tool and to
>>generate the website (rather than the ant build). your opinions, please.
>>
>>- robert
>>
>>
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>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
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>>
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Re: [math] mavenization?
Posted by Juozas Baliuka <ba...@centras.lt>.
I prefer to have both ways,
"plain" ant is a very good tool for the most of users to build jar, run
test.
Maven is a better way for developers as integrated set of the most usefull
tools.
----- Original Message -----
From: "robert burrell donkin" <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: "Jakarta Commons Developers List" <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 5:17 PM
Subject: [math] mavenization?
> should math be a mavenized?
>
> in other words, should math use maven as it's primary build tool and to
> generate the website (rather than the ant build). your opinions, please.
>
> - robert
>
>
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