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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> on 2012/01/09 09:39:13 UTC
On Etch status
Etch is a cross-platform, language- and transport-independent
framework for building and consuming network services. The Etch
toolset includes a network service description language, a compiler,
and binding libraries for a variety of programming languages. It
currently supports C, C# and Java. Support for Go, JavaScript and
Python is deemed alpha status.
Etch has 4 mentors listed: Yonik, Doug, Niclas and myself. Currently
it seems I am the only mentor active.
The facts:
- We have roughly 4 active contributors: 3 committers and 1 person
responding to messages on the dev/user lists.
- We know how to add committers: the 3 currently active committers
were all not part of the team when incubation started. One of them was
voted in in the last half year.
- The community is diverse, or as diverse you can get in a 4 person group.
- We know how to cut releases.
- Reporting has been on schedule.
The podling is IMO ready to graduate, but lacks a sustainable
community (as noted elsewhere). The podling started out as a project
of Cisco, and had an active group of committers, but when the economy
happened, the team was disbanded and effectively left the podling
stranded.
When I think of the reasons why people are reluctant to join Etch, I think that:
- being in incubation hinders adoption of the code base
- its use is not advertised well (e.g. BMW uses it in their Minis)
- competition in the networking library space is fierce (though not
too many libs exist)
The project can address 2, 3 is something external and the IPMC can address 1.
Now the big question: is Etch a candidate for graduating to TLP?
I think it is, given the facts. It will be a TLP with issues of
activity, but so far user questions, development questions are
answered and releases are cut. The website has been updated recently,
so I don't see an immediate danger of the project going south. I think
that graduation of the podling will be a good thing and might give the
project a bit of renewed energy.
So... What to do?
Martijn
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Re: On Etch status
Posted by Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>.
Just as an aside: I intend on staying with the PMC to provide
oversight as a Member (and being a familiar Mentor), provided the Etch
community wants me to tag along.
Martijn
On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 9:39 AM, Martijn Dashorst
<ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Etch is a cross-platform, language- and transport-independent
> framework for building and consuming network services. The Etch
> toolset includes a network service description language, a compiler,
> and binding libraries for a variety of programming languages. It
> currently supports C, C# and Java. Support for Go, JavaScript and
> Python is deemed alpha status.
>
> Etch has 4 mentors listed: Yonik, Doug, Niclas and myself. Currently
> it seems I am the only mentor active.
>
> The facts:
>
> - We have roughly 4 active contributors: 3 committers and 1 person
> responding to messages on the dev/user lists.
> - We know how to add committers: the 3 currently active committers
> were all not part of the team when incubation started. One of them was
> voted in in the last half year.
> - The community is diverse, or as diverse you can get in a 4 person group.
> - We know how to cut releases.
> - Reporting has been on schedule.
>
> The podling is IMO ready to graduate, but lacks a sustainable
> community (as noted elsewhere). The podling started out as a project
> of Cisco, and had an active group of committers, but when the economy
> happened, the team was disbanded and effectively left the podling
> stranded.
>
> When I think of the reasons why people are reluctant to join Etch, I think that:
> - being in incubation hinders adoption of the code base
> - its use is not advertised well (e.g. BMW uses it in their Minis)
> - competition in the networking library space is fierce (though not
> too many libs exist)
>
> The project can address 2, 3 is something external and the IPMC can address 1.
>
> Now the big question: is Etch a candidate for graduating to TLP?
>
> I think it is, given the facts. It will be a TLP with issues of
> activity, but so far user questions, development questions are
> answered and releases are cut. The website has been updated recently,
> so I don't see an immediate danger of the project going south. I think
> that graduation of the podling will be a good thing and might give the
> project a bit of renewed energy.
>
> So... What to do?
>
> Martijn
--
Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com
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Re: On Etch status
Posted by Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>.
I'll give it a couple of more days for folks to look into this, then
I'll propose the community to start work on graduation.
Martijn
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 5:30 AM, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> +1 to graduate. This is a project in a fierce space as Martijn noted,
> and I think "incubating" is hampering its attractiveness. It will
> become a swim or sink challenge as TLP, but doubt the forecast is any
> better of staying here.
>
> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 7:39 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Martijn Dashorst
>> <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Etch is a cross-platform, language- and transport-independent
>>> framework for building and consuming network services. The Etch
>>> toolset includes a network service description language, a compiler,
>>> and binding libraries for a variety of programming languages. It
>>> currently supports C, C# and Java. Support for Go, JavaScript and
>>> Python is deemed alpha status.
>>>
>>> Etch has 4 mentors listed: Yonik, Doug, Niclas and myself. Currently
>>> it seems I am the only mentor active.
>>>
>>> The facts:
>>>
>>> - We have roughly 4 active contributors: 3 committers and 1 person
>>> responding to messages on the dev/user lists.
>>> - We know how to add committers: the 3 currently active committers
>>> were all not part of the team when incubation started. One of them was
>>> voted in in the last half year.
>>> - The community is diverse, or as diverse you can get in a 4 person group.
>>> - We know how to cut releases.
>>> - Reporting has been on schedule.
>>>
>>> The podling is IMO ready to graduate, but lacks a sustainable
>>> community (as noted elsewhere). The podling started out as a project
>>> of Cisco, and had an active group of committers, but when the economy
>>> happened, the team was disbanded and effectively left the podling
>>> stranded.
>>>
>>> When I think of the reasons why people are reluctant to join Etch, I think that:
>>> - being in incubation hinders adoption of the code base
>>> - its use is not advertised well (e.g. BMW uses it in their Minis)
>>> - competition in the networking library space is fierce (though not
>>> too many libs exist)
>>>
>>> The project can address 2, 3 is something external and the IPMC can address 1.
>>>
>>> Now the big question: is Etch a candidate for graduating to TLP?
>>>
>>> I think it is, given the facts. It will be a TLP with issues of
>>> activity, but so far user questions, development questions are
>>> answered and releases are cut. The website has been updated recently,
>>> so I don't see an immediate danger of the project going south. I think
>>> that graduation of the podling will be a good thing and might give the
>>> project a bit of renewed energy.
>>>
>>> So... What to do?
>>>
>>
>> Looking at commits in the last three months shows only two active
>> committers [1] extending that to six months shows three committers and
>> looking in the mail archives i see that extra committer has emailed
>> the dev list last month so is still around. So i think it could be
>> argued that there are three active committers and assuming they're
>> independent of each other then technically that meets that aspect of
>> the minimum graduation requirements.
>>
>> Seems like a borderline case but there are other existing TLPs with
>> few active committers. I did a bit of digging about in the project and
>> i guess my gut feel would be if the mentors are recommending
>> graduation is the best thing for them now and are going to be helping
>> out by being on the PMC then i'd vote +1 for graduation too.
>>
>> ..ant
>>
>> [1] http://svnsearch.org/svnsearch/repos/ASF/search?from=20111001&path=%2Fincubator%2Fetch
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
>
> I live here; http://tinyurl.com/3xugrbk
> I work here; http://tinyurl.com/6a2pl4j
> I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
--
Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com
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Re: On Etch status
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
+1 to graduate. This is a project in a fierce space as Martijn noted,
and I think "incubating" is hampering its attractiveness. It will
become a swim or sink challenge as TLP, but doubt the forecast is any
better of staying here.
On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 7:39 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Martijn Dashorst
> <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Etch is a cross-platform, language- and transport-independent
>> framework for building and consuming network services. The Etch
>> toolset includes a network service description language, a compiler,
>> and binding libraries for a variety of programming languages. It
>> currently supports C, C# and Java. Support for Go, JavaScript and
>> Python is deemed alpha status.
>>
>> Etch has 4 mentors listed: Yonik, Doug, Niclas and myself. Currently
>> it seems I am the only mentor active.
>>
>> The facts:
>>
>> - We have roughly 4 active contributors: 3 committers and 1 person
>> responding to messages on the dev/user lists.
>> - We know how to add committers: the 3 currently active committers
>> were all not part of the team when incubation started. One of them was
>> voted in in the last half year.
>> - The community is diverse, or as diverse you can get in a 4 person group.
>> - We know how to cut releases.
>> - Reporting has been on schedule.
>>
>> The podling is IMO ready to graduate, but lacks a sustainable
>> community (as noted elsewhere). The podling started out as a project
>> of Cisco, and had an active group of committers, but when the economy
>> happened, the team was disbanded and effectively left the podling
>> stranded.
>>
>> When I think of the reasons why people are reluctant to join Etch, I think that:
>> - being in incubation hinders adoption of the code base
>> - its use is not advertised well (e.g. BMW uses it in their Minis)
>> - competition in the networking library space is fierce (though not
>> too many libs exist)
>>
>> The project can address 2, 3 is something external and the IPMC can address 1.
>>
>> Now the big question: is Etch a candidate for graduating to TLP?
>>
>> I think it is, given the facts. It will be a TLP with issues of
>> activity, but so far user questions, development questions are
>> answered and releases are cut. The website has been updated recently,
>> so I don't see an immediate danger of the project going south. I think
>> that graduation of the podling will be a good thing and might give the
>> project a bit of renewed energy.
>>
>> So... What to do?
>>
>
> Looking at commits in the last three months shows only two active
> committers [1] extending that to six months shows three committers and
> looking in the mail archives i see that extra committer has emailed
> the dev list last month so is still around. So i think it could be
> argued that there are three active committers and assuming they're
> independent of each other then technically that meets that aspect of
> the minimum graduation requirements.
>
> Seems like a borderline case but there are other existing TLPs with
> few active committers. I did a bit of digging about in the project and
> i guess my gut feel would be if the mentors are recommending
> graduation is the best thing for them now and are going to be helping
> out by being on the PMC then i'd vote +1 for graduation too.
>
> ..ant
>
> [1] http://svnsearch.org/svnsearch/repos/ASF/search?from=20111001&path=%2Fincubator%2Fetch
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/3xugrbk
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/6a2pl4j
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
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Re: On Etch status
Posted by ant elder <an...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Martijn Dashorst
<ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Etch is a cross-platform, language- and transport-independent
> framework for building and consuming network services. The Etch
> toolset includes a network service description language, a compiler,
> and binding libraries for a variety of programming languages. It
> currently supports C, C# and Java. Support for Go, JavaScript and
> Python is deemed alpha status.
>
> Etch has 4 mentors listed: Yonik, Doug, Niclas and myself. Currently
> it seems I am the only mentor active.
>
> The facts:
>
> - We have roughly 4 active contributors: 3 committers and 1 person
> responding to messages on the dev/user lists.
> - We know how to add committers: the 3 currently active committers
> were all not part of the team when incubation started. One of them was
> voted in in the last half year.
> - The community is diverse, or as diverse you can get in a 4 person group.
> - We know how to cut releases.
> - Reporting has been on schedule.
>
> The podling is IMO ready to graduate, but lacks a sustainable
> community (as noted elsewhere). The podling started out as a project
> of Cisco, and had an active group of committers, but when the economy
> happened, the team was disbanded and effectively left the podling
> stranded.
>
> When I think of the reasons why people are reluctant to join Etch, I think that:
> - being in incubation hinders adoption of the code base
> - its use is not advertised well (e.g. BMW uses it in their Minis)
> - competition in the networking library space is fierce (though not
> too many libs exist)
>
> The project can address 2, 3 is something external and the IPMC can address 1.
>
> Now the big question: is Etch a candidate for graduating to TLP?
>
> I think it is, given the facts. It will be a TLP with issues of
> activity, but so far user questions, development questions are
> answered and releases are cut. The website has been updated recently,
> so I don't see an immediate danger of the project going south. I think
> that graduation of the podling will be a good thing and might give the
> project a bit of renewed energy.
>
> So... What to do?
>
Looking at commits in the last three months shows only two active
committers [1] extending that to six months shows three committers and
looking in the mail archives i see that extra committer has emailed
the dev list last month so is still around. So i think it could be
argued that there are three active committers and assuming they're
independent of each other then technically that meets that aspect of
the minimum graduation requirements.
Seems like a borderline case but there are other existing TLPs with
few active committers. I did a bit of digging about in the project and
i guess my gut feel would be if the mentors are recommending
graduation is the best thing for them now and are going to be helping
out by being on the PMC then i'd vote +1 for graduation too.
..ant
[1] http://svnsearch.org/svnsearch/repos/ASF/search?from=20111001&path=%2Fincubator%2Fetch
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Re: On Etch status
Posted by Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 10:12 AM, Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com> wrote:
> But I guess it does meet the minimum size. If 3 is not enough, what
> number is? If it does become a problem, there's an attic process.
The project is already in the process of adding another committer. I
have every intention to put him on the PMC when graduating. The vote
on the private list also shows interest of other non-committing PPMC
members, so there might be more folks active-ish.
One of the biggest tasks for graduation IMO is to prune the PMC to the
really active members that are able to provide oversight for the
project, cut and check releases, apply patches and vote in new
community members. The latter doesn't seem to be a problem, other than
attracting new members.
> What would be really bad for Etch is if the incubator recommends it
> graduates into a TLP and then the board doesn't want to pass the
> resolution because it's a very small PMC. I would almost be inclined
> to prod board@ to see what they have to say on the matter?
Good suggestion. I'll do so.
Martijn
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Re: On Etch status
Posted by Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com>.
Hey hey,
On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 9:39 AM, Martijn Dashorst
<ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Now the big question: is Etch a candidate for graduating to TLP?
>
> I think it is, given the facts. It will be a TLP with issues of
> activity, but so far user questions, development questions are
> answered and releases are cut. The website has been updated recently,
> so I don't see an immediate danger of the project going south. I think
> that graduation of the podling will be a good thing and might give the
> project a bit of renewed energy.
>
> So... What to do?
I had a look. I agree with your assessment.
I feel a bit uncomfortable at the idea of a PMC with 3 people + 1
mentor on it, though I do not quite have a solid reason for it. Maybe
because making binding decisions in that case effectively requires
full consensus?
But I guess it does meet the minimum size. If 3 is not enough, what
number is? If it does become a problem, there's an attic process.
What would be really bad for Etch is if the incubator recommends it
graduates into a TLP and then the board doesn't want to pass the
resolution because it's a very small PMC. I would almost be inclined
to prod board@ to see what they have to say on the matter?
cheers,
Leo
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