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Posted to users@cocoon.apache.org by Alfredas Chmieliauskas <al...@sseriga.edu.lv> on 2001/10/02 14:28:55 UTC
[Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4
Hello,
It seems that c2 + tomcat4 is the most problematic issue for a couple of weeks already
(while it is one of the most used configurations). I myself had a hard time installing
it due to sitemap_xmap.java did not re-compile, well whatever.
So my proposal is that it might be reasonable to bundle the next stable c2 release together
with tomcat in one install package (already preconfigured and working!) - like it is done with
jboss (+ tomcat or +jetty).
This might be usefull for the great majority of non-dev users that do not need the option
to build c2 themselves, and rather spend less time on determining/quessing the /lib location.
What do you think?
Alfredas
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RE: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Nixon [mailto:ed.nixon@LynnParkPlace.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 10:06 AM
> To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org; cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
> Subject: RE: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4
>
>
> Comments below...
>
> At 09:41 AM 02/10/2001 -0400, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> > > From: Alfredas Chmieliauskas [mailto:alfredas@sseriga.edu.lv]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 8:29 AM
> > > To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
> > > Subject: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > > It seems that c2 + tomcat4 is the most problematic issue for a couple
> > of weeks already
> > > (while it is one of the most used configurations). I myself had a hard
> > time installing
> > > it due to sitemap_xmap.java did not re-compile, well whatever.
> >
> >The funny thing that it's the most easiest combination, comparing to
> >Tomcat 3.x,
> >Resin, etc. The only thing you need to do is:
> > - do not use JDK1.4,
> > - do not use CLASSPATH
> > - do not use /ext/ libraries
>
> Two points (or some might think quibbles) about your advice:
> 1. If true, this information is not well documented... anywhere. To my
> knowledge at least.
> 2. I'm not exactly sure what you mean or imply by "do not use CLASSPATH"
Ok, I meant here that if you do have in classpath some libraries during build time,
and Cocoon will not have access to them in run time (under Tomcat that's usual thing - it
ignores system classpath). That leads to different compile-time and run-time configurations
and ClassNotFound exceptions.
The easiest solution is to use empty CLASSPATH variable, and if you need to use
some extra libraries, just put them into cocoon/lib before building the WAR file
(and ant will put them under WEB-INF/lib).
This problem was first described here:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=100142275118290&w=2
> but in general it seems like a totally unrealistic constraint to put on an
> installation or operating process. CLASSPATH, whether system or user (in
> the Win2K world) is a basic functionality of Java. Some systems explicitly
> require certain flavors of CLASSPATH to permit functioning.
PS: Never used system- or user- wide classpath. Do set it as required by
certain server (or application).
Vadim
>
> The only justification for the problems we've had that I can think of is
> that Cocoon is not release level software yet. You're going to be a little
> more forgiving of a problem under those conditions. However, we are now in
> RC phase and I'd be more comfortable if I thought there was a definitive
> explanation and solution to these chimerical problems. One of my concerns
> has to do with subtle and not so subtle dependencies of Cocoon on the
> Apache/Tomcat way of doing things. It doesn't take to much carelessness or
> myopia to build Sun and/or Tomcat dependencies into Cocoon similar to those
> being discovered in Velocity for example.
>
> Your experience differs from a significant number of others.
>
> ...edN
>
>
>
>
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RE: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4
Posted by Ed Nixon <ed...@LynnParkPlace.org>.
Comments below...
At 09:41 AM 02/10/2001 -0400, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> > From: Alfredas Chmieliauskas [mailto:alfredas@sseriga.edu.lv]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 8:29 AM
> > To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
> > Subject: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> > It seems that c2 + tomcat4 is the most problematic issue for a couple
> of weeks already
> > (while it is one of the most used configurations). I myself had a hard
> time installing
> > it due to sitemap_xmap.java did not re-compile, well whatever.
>
>The funny thing that it's the most easiest combination, comparing to
>Tomcat 3.x,
>Resin, etc. The only thing you need to do is:
> - do not use JDK1.4,
> - do not use CLASSPATH
> - do not use /ext/ libraries
Two points (or some might think quibbles) about your advice:
1. If true, this information is not well documented... anywhere. To my
knowledge at least.
2. I'm not exactly sure what you mean or imply by "do not use CLASSPATH"
but in general it seems like a totally unrealistic constraint to put on an
installation or operating process. CLASSPATH, whether system or user (in
the Win2K world) is a basic functionality of Java. Some systems explicitly
require certain flavors of CLASSPATH to permit functioning.
The only justification for the problems we've had that I can think of is
that Cocoon is not release level software yet. You're going to be a little
more forgiving of a problem under those conditions. However, we are now in
RC phase and I'd be more comfortable if I thought there was a definitive
explanation and solution to these chimerical problems. One of my concerns
has to do with subtle and not so subtle dependencies of Cocoon on the
Apache/Tomcat way of doing things. It doesn't take to much carelessness or
myopia to build Sun and/or Tomcat dependencies into Cocoon similar to those
being discovered in Velocity for example.
Your experience differs from a significant number of others.
...edN
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Re: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4
Posted by Sam <sa...@atnet.net.au>.
Alfredas Chmieliauskas wrote:
> Hello,
> It seems that c2 + tomcat4 is the most problematic issue for a couple of weeks already
> (while it is one of the most used configurations). I myself had a hard time installing
> it due to sitemap_xmap.java did not re-compile, well whatever.
> So my proposal is that it might be reasonable to bundle the next stable c2 release together
> with tomcat in one install package (already preconfigured and working!) - like it is done with
> jboss (+ tomcat or +jetty).
> This might be usefull for the great majority of non-dev users that do not need the option
> to build c2 themselves, and rather spend less time on determining/quessing the /lib location.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Alfredas
sounds like a good idea. turbine development kit is also bundled with an integrated tomcat 4.
Sam
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Re: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4
Posted by Alfredas Chmieliauskas <al...@sseriga.edu.lv>.
>Correct me if I'm wrong here, but...
>I found TC4.0 + C2.0 the most easy-to-install combination. Most users have problem not with
>installation itself, but with building of cocoon.war for the first time. Some users have
>platform-secific issues (buggy JDK 1.3.1 implemetation under Linux which crashes, etc)
Well, looking at the mailling list I suppose there are cocoon'ers that
would like to argue with you ;-)
For me it was much easier to install c2 on tomcat 3.x and resin.... And
no matter what the reason for that might be (particularities cocoon
release/ servlet engine release, build errors, buggy jdk, other platform
spec.) I guess that would be a good idea to put up several preconfigured
installations,
which is a long and tested practice at jboss (i actually am subscribed
at the jboss user list and they have much less traffic comming about the
install issues). We could save time and patience for many new users and
event attract new ones with this user-friendly feat.
I could myself setup several configs, its just a matter of storing them
somewhere - of course apache.org/cocoon2 would be reasonable.
waiting for your proposals/RT's
Alfredas
Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
>>From: Alfredas Chmieliauskas [mailto:alfredas@sseriga.edu.lv]
>>Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 8:29 AM
>>To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
>>Subject: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4
>>
>>
>>Hello,
>>It seems that c2 + tomcat4 is the most problematic issue for a couple of weeks already
>>(while it is one of the most used configurations). I myself had a hard time installing
>>it due to sitemap_xmap.java did not re-compile, well whatever.
>>
>
>The funny thing that it's the most easiest combination, comparing to Tomcat 3.x,
>Resin, etc. The only thing you need to do is:
> - do not use JDK1.4,
> - do not use CLASSPATH
> - do not use /ext/ libraries
> - copy cocoon.war under tomcat/webapps and restart container.
>
>Correct me if I'm wrong here, but...
>I found TC4.0 + C2.0 the most easy-to-install combination. Most users have problem not with
>installation itself, but with building of cocoon.war for the first time. Some users have
>platform-secific issues (buggy JDK 1.3.1 implemetation under Linux which crashes, etc)
>
>Vadim
>
>>So my proposal is that it might be reasonable to bundle the next stable c2 release together
>>with tomcat in one install package (already preconfigured and working!) - like it is done with
>>jboss (+ tomcat or +jetty).
>>This might be usefull for the great majority of non-dev users that do not need the option
>>to build c2 themselves, and rather spend less time on determining/quessing the /lib location.
>>
>>What do you think?
>>
>>Alfredas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
>>FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faqs.html>
>>
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
>>For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
>>
>
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>
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RE: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@dff.st>.
> > Hello,
> > It seems that c2 + tomcat4 is the most problematic issue for a couple of weeks already
> > (while it is one of the most used configurations). I myself had a hard time installing
> > it due to sitemap_xmap.java did not re-compile, well whatever.
>
> The funny thing that it's the most easiest combination, comparing to Tomcat 3.x,
> Resin, etc. The only thing you need to do is:
> - do not use JDK1.4,
> - do not use CLASSPATH
> - do not use /ext/ libraries
> - copy cocoon.war under tomcat/webapps and restart container.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong here, but...
> I found TC4.0 + C2.0 the most easy-to-install combination. Most users have problem not with
> installation itself, but with building of cocoon.war for the first time. Some users have
> platform-secific issues (buggy JDK 1.3.1 implemetation under Linux which crashes, etc)
I can second that... cannot be much easier
--
Torsten
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RE: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
> From: Alfredas Chmieliauskas [mailto:alfredas@sseriga.edu.lv]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 8:29 AM
> To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
> Subject: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4
>
>
> Hello,
> It seems that c2 + tomcat4 is the most problematic issue for a couple of weeks already
> (while it is one of the most used configurations). I myself had a hard time installing
> it due to sitemap_xmap.java did not re-compile, well whatever.
The funny thing that it's the most easiest combination, comparing to Tomcat 3.x,
Resin, etc. The only thing you need to do is:
- do not use JDK1.4,
- do not use CLASSPATH
- do not use /ext/ libraries
- copy cocoon.war under tomcat/webapps and restart container.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but...
I found TC4.0 + C2.0 the most easy-to-install combination. Most users have problem not with
installation itself, but with building of cocoon.war for the first time. Some users have
platform-secific issues (buggy JDK 1.3.1 implemetation under Linux which crashes, etc)
Vadim
> So my proposal is that it might be reasonable to bundle the next stable c2 release together
> with tomcat in one install package (already preconfigured and working!) - like it is done with
> jboss (+ tomcat or +jetty).
> This might be usefull for the great majority of non-dev users that do not need the option
> to build c2 themselves, and rather spend less time on determining/quessing the /lib location.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Alfredas
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faqs.html>
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
>
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