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Posted to users@cocoon.apache.org by Alfredas Chmieliauskas <al...@sseriga.edu.lv> on 2001/10/02 14:28:55 UTC

[Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4

Hello,
It seems that c2 + tomcat4 is the most problematic issue for a couple of weeks already 
(while it is one of the most used configurations). I myself had a hard time installing 
it due to sitemap_xmap.java did not re-compile, well whatever.
So my proposal is that it might be reasonable to bundle the next stable c2 release together 
with tomcat in one install package (already preconfigured and working!) - like it is done with 
jboss (+ tomcat or +jetty). 
This might be usefull for the great majority of non-dev users that do not need the option
to build c2 themselves, and rather spend less time on determining/quessing the /lib location.

What do you think?

Alfredas 




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RE: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4

Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Nixon [mailto:ed.nixon@LynnParkPlace.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 10:06 AM
> To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org; cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
> Subject: RE: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4
> 
> 
> Comments below...
> 
> At 09:41 AM 02/10/2001 -0400, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> > > From: Alfredas Chmieliauskas [mailto:alfredas@sseriga.edu.lv]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 8:29 AM
> > > To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
> > > Subject: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > > It seems that c2 + tomcat4 is the most problematic issue for a couple 
> > of weeks already
> > > (while it is one of the most used configurations). I myself had a hard 
> > time installing
> > > it due to sitemap_xmap.java did not re-compile, well whatever.
> >
> >The funny thing that it's the most easiest combination, comparing to 
> >Tomcat 3.x,
> >Resin, etc. The only thing you need to do is:
> >  - do not use JDK1.4,
> >  - do not use CLASSPATH
> >  - do not use /ext/ libraries
> 
> Two points (or some might think quibbles) about your advice:
> 1. If true, this information is not well documented... anywhere. To my 
> knowledge at least.
> 2. I'm not exactly sure what you mean or imply by "do not use CLASSPATH" 

Ok, I meant here that if you do have in classpath some libraries during build time,
and Cocoon will not have access to them in run time (under Tomcat that's usual thing - it 
ignores system classpath). That leads to different compile-time and run-time configurations
and ClassNotFound exceptions.
The easiest solution is to use empty CLASSPATH variable, and if you need to use
some extra libraries, just put them into cocoon/lib before building the WAR file
(and ant will put them under WEB-INF/lib).
This problem was first described here:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=100142275118290&w=2

> but in general it seems like a totally unrealistic constraint to put on an 
> installation or operating process. CLASSPATH, whether system or user (in 
> the Win2K world) is a basic functionality of Java. Some systems explicitly 
> require certain flavors of CLASSPATH to permit functioning.

PS: Never used system- or user- wide classpath. Do set it as required by
certain server (or application).

Vadim


> 
> The only justification for the problems we've had that I can think of is 
> that Cocoon is not release level software yet. You're going to be a little 
> more forgiving of a problem under those conditions. However, we are now in 
> RC phase and I'd be more comfortable if I thought there was a definitive 
> explanation and solution to these chimerical problems. One of my concerns 
> has to do with subtle and not so subtle dependencies of Cocoon on the 
> Apache/Tomcat way of doing things. It doesn't take to much carelessness or 
> myopia to build Sun and/or Tomcat dependencies into Cocoon similar to those 
> being discovered in Velocity for example.
> 
> Your experience differs from a significant number of others.
> 
>                ...edN
> 
> 
> 
> 
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RE: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4

Posted by Ed Nixon <ed...@LynnParkPlace.org>.
Comments below...

At 09:41 AM 02/10/2001 -0400, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> > From: Alfredas Chmieliauskas [mailto:alfredas@sseriga.edu.lv]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 8:29 AM
> > To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
> > Subject: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> > It seems that c2 + tomcat4 is the most problematic issue for a couple 
> of weeks already
> > (while it is one of the most used configurations). I myself had a hard 
> time installing
> > it due to sitemap_xmap.java did not re-compile, well whatever.
>
>The funny thing that it's the most easiest combination, comparing to 
>Tomcat 3.x,
>Resin, etc. The only thing you need to do is:
>  - do not use JDK1.4,
>  - do not use CLASSPATH
>  - do not use /ext/ libraries

Two points (or some might think quibbles) about your advice:
1. If true, this information is not well documented... anywhere. To my 
knowledge at least.
2. I'm not exactly sure what you mean or imply by "do not use CLASSPATH" 
but in general it seems like a totally unrealistic constraint to put on an 
installation or operating process. CLASSPATH, whether system or user (in 
the Win2K world) is a basic functionality of Java. Some systems explicitly 
require certain flavors of CLASSPATH to permit functioning.

The only justification for the problems we've had that I can think of is 
that Cocoon is not release level software yet. You're going to be a little 
more forgiving of a problem under those conditions. However, we are now in 
RC phase and I'd be more comfortable if I thought there was a definitive 
explanation and solution to these chimerical problems. One of my concerns 
has to do with subtle and not so subtle dependencies of Cocoon on the 
Apache/Tomcat way of doing things. It doesn't take to much carelessness or 
myopia to build Sun and/or Tomcat dependencies into Cocoon similar to those 
being discovered in Velocity for example.

Your experience differs from a significant number of others.

               ...edN




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Re: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4

Posted by Sam <sa...@atnet.net.au>.
Alfredas Chmieliauskas wrote:

> Hello,
> It seems that c2 + tomcat4 is the most problematic issue for a couple of weeks already
> (while it is one of the most used configurations). I myself had a hard time installing
> it due to sitemap_xmap.java did not re-compile, well whatever.
> So my proposal is that it might be reasonable to bundle the next stable c2 release together
> with tomcat in one install package (already preconfigured and working!) - like it is done with
> jboss (+ tomcat or +jetty).
> This might be usefull for the great majority of non-dev users that do not need the option
> to build c2 themselves, and rather spend less time on determining/quessing the /lib location.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Alfredas

sounds like a good idea. turbine development kit is also bundled with an integrated tomcat 4.

Sam


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Re: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4

Posted by Alfredas Chmieliauskas <al...@sseriga.edu.lv>.
>Correct me if I'm wrong here, but...
>I found TC4.0 + C2.0 the most easy-to-install combination. Most users have problem not with
>installation itself, but with building of cocoon.war for the first time. Some users have 
>platform-secific issues (buggy JDK 1.3.1 implemetation under Linux which crashes, etc)

Well, looking at the mailling list I suppose there are cocoon'ers that 
would like to argue with you ;-)
For me it was much easier to install c2 on tomcat 3.x and resin.... And 
no matter what the reason for that might be (particularities cocoon 
release/ servlet engine release, build errors, buggy jdk, other platform 
spec.) I guess that would be a good idea to put up several preconfigured 
installations,
which is a long and tested practice at jboss (i actually am subscribed 
at the jboss user list and they have much less traffic comming about the 
install issues). We could save time and patience for many new users and 
event attract new ones with this user-friendly feat.

I could myself setup several configs, its just a matter of storing them 
somewhere - of course apache.org/cocoon2 would be reasonable.

waiting for your proposals/RT's

Alfredas


Vadim Gritsenko wrote:

>>From: Alfredas Chmieliauskas [mailto:alfredas@sseriga.edu.lv]
>>Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 8:29 AM
>>To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
>>Subject: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4
>>
>>
>>Hello,
>>It seems that c2 + tomcat4 is the most problematic issue for a couple of weeks already 
>>(while it is one of the most used configurations). I myself had a hard time installing 
>>it due to sitemap_xmap.java did not re-compile, well whatever.
>>
>
>The funny thing that it's the most easiest combination, comparing to Tomcat 3.x,
>Resin, etc. The only thing you need to do is:
> - do not use JDK1.4,
> - do not use CLASSPATH
> - do not use /ext/ libraries
> - copy cocoon.war under tomcat/webapps and restart container.
>
>Correct me if I'm wrong here, but...
>I found TC4.0 + C2.0 the most easy-to-install combination. Most users have problem not with
>installation itself, but with building of cocoon.war for the first time. Some users have 
>platform-secific issues (buggy JDK 1.3.1 implemetation under Linux which crashes, etc)
>
>Vadim
>
>>So my proposal is that it might be reasonable to bundle the next stable c2 release together 
>>with tomcat in one install package (already preconfigured and working!) - like it is done with 
>>jboss (+ tomcat or +jetty). 
>>This might be usefull for the great majority of non-dev users that do not need the option
>>to build c2 themselves, and rather spend less time on determining/quessing the /lib location.
>>
>>What do you think?
>>
>>Alfredas 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
>>FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faqs.html>
>>
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
>>For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
>>
>
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>
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>For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
>




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RE: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4

Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@dff.st>.
> > Hello,
> > It seems that c2 + tomcat4 is the most problematic issue for a couple of weeks already
> > (while it is one of the most used configurations). I myself had a hard time installing
> > it due to sitemap_xmap.java did not re-compile, well whatever.
>
> The funny thing that it's the most easiest combination, comparing to Tomcat 3.x,
> Resin, etc. The only thing you need to do is:
>  - do not use JDK1.4,
>  - do not use CLASSPATH
>  - do not use /ext/ libraries
>  - copy cocoon.war under tomcat/webapps and restart container.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong here, but...
> I found TC4.0 + C2.0 the most easy-to-install combination. Most users have problem not with
> installation itself, but with building of cocoon.war for the first time. Some users have
> platform-secific issues (buggy JDK 1.3.1 implemetation under Linux which crashes, etc)

I can second that... cannot be much easier
--
Torsten


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RE: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4

Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
> From: Alfredas Chmieliauskas [mailto:alfredas@sseriga.edu.lv]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 8:29 AM
> To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
> Subject: [Proposal] C2 + tomcat 4
> 
> 
> Hello,
> It seems that c2 + tomcat4 is the most problematic issue for a couple of weeks already 
> (while it is one of the most used configurations). I myself had a hard time installing 
> it due to sitemap_xmap.java did not re-compile, well whatever.

The funny thing that it's the most easiest combination, comparing to Tomcat 3.x,
Resin, etc. The only thing you need to do is:
 - do not use JDK1.4,
 - do not use CLASSPATH
 - do not use /ext/ libraries
 - copy cocoon.war under tomcat/webapps and restart container.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but...
I found TC4.0 + C2.0 the most easy-to-install combination. Most users have problem not with
installation itself, but with building of cocoon.war for the first time. Some users have 
platform-secific issues (buggy JDK 1.3.1 implemetation under Linux which crashes, etc)

Vadim

> So my proposal is that it might be reasonable to bundle the next stable c2 release together 
> with tomcat in one install package (already preconfigured and working!) - like it is done with 
> jboss (+ tomcat or +jetty). 
> This might be usefull for the great majority of non-dev users that do not need the option
> to build c2 themselves, and rather spend less time on determining/quessing the /lib location.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Alfredas 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faqs.html>
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> 

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