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Posted to dev@jspwiki.apache.org by Florian Holeczek <fl...@apache.org> on 2012/12/09 12:31:30 UTC
[DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
Hi all,
sooner or later we will have to decide on how to proceed with the 3.0 efforts (available in the JSPWIKI_3_0_BRANCH).
The discussion already started on a different thread (see below), but I think it's a good idea to explicitly continue it on a new thread.
@Harry: I fully agree with your mail cited below.
Though I wish it was different, I personally have little hope on reviving 3.0 without the help of Janne and Andrew, which seems unlikely at least in the medium term.
What do the others think, especially Janne and Andrew?
Regards
Florian
-------- original message --------
Subject: Re: [jira] [Commented] (JSPWIKI-713) Creating a page doesn't work on 3.0
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 12:12:59 +0100
From: Harry Metske <ha...@gmail.com>
Reply to: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
To: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
Agree with that statement. But let's then decide what to do with 3.0 stuff.
My main objection is that it is cluttering up our JIRA issue list, and it
is misleading people.
If anyone of us still has some hope on reviving 3.0 then I'm OK with
leaving things as they are at the moment.
regards,
Harry
Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
Posted by Terry Steichen <te...@net-frame.com>.
+1
On 12/11/2012 03:40 PM, Ichiro Furusato wrote:
> Hi Andrew,
>
> I know it's terribly unfashionable to say this, and I understand
> there has been a significant amount of work on 3.0 towards Stripes
> (and perhaps this is also somewhat of an academic argument), but
> I really much prefer the JSPs. No, there's no framework, no "real"
> MVC, and this likely goes against the current of thought, but
> frankly I consider the use of scriptlets a real benefit, not a
> problem.
>
> JSPWiki is not so complicated an application, and wikis are by
> nature a tinkerer's toy, that shoving everything up into a framework,
> adding in complicated features that make modifying the site more
> difficult, well, the move away from JSPs was one reason I was
> considering moving away from the JSPWiki platform.
>
> It is after all named *JSP*Wiki. I happen to think that the
> combination of JSPs, with their easy-to-edit combination of HTML
> and Java code, as an ideal environment for customising wikis.
> Maybe we could rebrand this project as "retro" and it would gain
> enormous momentum.
>
> My 2 cents anyway...
>
> Ichiro
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Andrew Jaquith
> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> From the vantage point of someone who is inactive with the project, but
>> also the principal author of the Stripes MVC integration:
>>
>> - Stripes had several goals, chiefly to (1) refactor the JSP scriptlet code
>> out of the JSPs and into proper JavaBeans ("ActionBeans" in Stripes
>> parlance)
>> - Simplify JSP markup and input validation (replace HTML form tags with
>> Stripes equivalents)
>> - Replace the "command pattern" extensions to WikiContext, introduced in
>> the 2.8 range, with something saner (the ActionBeans)
>> - Create a more solid back-end interface for managing JSON requests from
>> browsers
>>
>> Almost all of the forms porting was done, plus or minus a few things. I was
>> pretty happy with how it turned out. There is some wickedly clever JSON
>> processing in there (via the Interceptor classes) that was barely tapped;
>> it would have radically simplified a lot of Dirk's code. Yes, Stripes is
>> another framework, but it's pretty lightweight; and much, much lighter than
>> Spring, for example. On the flip side, it's not in widespread use; indeed,
>> Spring has pretty much steamrollered over most of the other JEE frameworks,
>> even as lots of dev energy has left the Java world entirely.
>>
>> One more thing about 3.0. I added in some pretty solid code for integrating
>> with LDAP and AD for authentication, group access controls, etc. This could
>> be re-used in the 2.9 codebase pretty easily, with a little light
>> refactoring.
>>
>> Whether the team wishes to use the rest of 3.0 code (including Stripes) is,
>> of course, up to the team. If I can be a resource/mentor, let me know.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 1:45 AM, Florian Holeczek <fl...@holeczek.de>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ichiro,
>>>
>>> well, that's basically it - more than enough I'd say, since these two are
>>> really big points. You can have a look at www.jspwiki.org, there are some
>>> pages on 3.0, too.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Florian
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail -----
>>> Von: "Ichiro Furusato" <ic...@gmail.com>
>>> An: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Gesendet: Sonntag, 9. Dezember 2012 23:53:08
>>> Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
>>>
>>> For those of us who've not followed the 3.0 progress (or lack thereof),
>>> could
>>> someone provide a very brief synopsis?
>>>
>>> My understanding is that the 2.8.x branch is fully functional and
>>> basically an
>>> update of the com.ecyrd.jspwiki code in Apache packaging, and that the 3.0
>>> branch was an attempt to rewrite the backend using Janne's JSR-170 subset,
>>> but that hasn't moved forward. I didn't know about any plans for Stripes.
>>> But
>>> this is all just a guess based on:
>>>
>>> A new effort is started to graduate with a 2.9 codebase (based on 2.8),
>>> so no JCR backend and no Stripes, but the traditional JSPWiki, the
>>> progress can still be followed at our JIRA issue tracker.
>>>
>>> [I'm frankly happy with the "traditional" 2.8/2.9 code base as it's
>>> compatible with a substantial number of extant projects and plugins.
>>> I'd prefer JSPs over Stripes, or anything that adds complication.]
>>>
>>> If there's a web page describing the goals of 3.0, a reference would
>>> be good. The JIRA roadmap isn't that helpful.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ichiro
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 12:31 AM, Florian Holeczek <fl...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> sooner or later we will have to decide on how to proceed with the 3.0
>>>> efforts (available in the JSPWIKI_3_0_BRANCH).
>>>> The discussion already started on a different thread (see below), but I
>>>> think it's a good idea to explicitly continue it on a new thread.
>>>>
>>>> @Harry: I fully agree with your mail cited below.
>>>> Though I wish it was different, I personally have little hope on reviving
>>>> 3.0 without the help of Janne and Andrew, which seems unlikely at least
>>> in
>>>> the medium term.
>>>>
>>>> What do the others think, especially Janne and Andrew?
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Florian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------- original message --------
>>>> Subject: Re: [jira] [Commented] (JSPWIKI-713) Creating a page doesn't
>>> work
>>>> on 3.0
>>>> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 12:12:59 +0100
>>>> From: Harry Metske <ha...@gmail.com>
>>>> Reply to: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>> To: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>> Agree with that statement. But let's then decide what to do with 3.0
>>> stuff.
>>>> My main objection is that it is cluttering up our JIRA issue list, and it
>>>> is misleading people.
>>>>
>>>> If anyone of us still has some hope on reviving 3.0 then I'm OK with
>>>> leaving things as they are at the moment.
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>> Harry
>>>>
Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
Posted by Christophe Dupriez <du...@destin.be>.
Hi!
My 2 cents on the JSP issue:
1) I choose to work with JSPWiki because it was JSP based !
2) I evaluated different framework and always stayed with basic JSP...
Why? It is simple: users wants solutions right away, you have no
time to refactor a whole software, you must be reactive.
Too often Java architects are proposing complex solutions when we
do not have something simple like PHP to rapidly serve users.
I just gave a Web Application Development course with JSPs.
Students were reluctant because they much prefer PHP.
At the end, they were surprised how simple and straight to the
point JSPs can be.
3) I just gave a try to SUGAR, the Linux adaptation for OLPC (One Laptop
per Child)
It shows how SIMPLICITY could be the way for most of our
professional users...
JSPWiki should be able to work their School Server but this is
another story...
I would propose:
a) WYSIMYG is a must for usage SIMPLICITY. Precise, simple and FAIL SAFE
implementation.
b) Some semantic feature is needed (wiki pages seen as a
Dictionary/vocabulary entry), links seen as a relation with some URL
with the possibility to enrich display using the data around linked
URLs
"JSPWiki, a partner application in the Semantic / Linked Open Data Web"
c) No dramatic changes needed: we must never forget the installed base.
Simplifications allowed though...
d) Improve technical documentation to provide clear instruction how to
extend at different levels.
On my side (within my limited time), I will try to provide proposals for
a) and b).
a) : Ichiro already provided me with a XSLT basis for XHTML->Wiki markup:
I still have to install it.
b) : I have already a support for:
* A Wiki page documenting a topic used to index different
databases is enriched with usage statistics (and links) in those databases.
Example:
http://www.destin-informatique.com/ASKOSI/Wiki.jsp?page=jita_THIN&profile=guest
* InterWikiLinks can be made toward a topic (and from there to
the databases using that topic): they remain to be enriched by a preview
popup presenting the statistics and the links directly
(As an example, I added an InterWikiLink to jita:SONL a.k.
"On Line Server" in the above page)
Refactoring OK but only if it brings BOTH :
1) functions requested by users (they "pay" for our work, is'nt it?)
2) cleaner, simpler, software easier to manage, to install and to integrate
Have a nice day!
Christophe
Le 11/12/2012 23:28, Glen Mazza a écrit :
> I'm inclined to agree with Ichiro here. Perhaps it is too late in the
> game for me to comment, but if--if!--JSPWiki is going to use a
> framework I would recommend a very commonly used one like Struts 2 or
> Spring MVC, even if there are smaller competitors that may, in fact,
> be better. Part of the allure of projects like JSPWiki is that it's
> web development that helps strengthen skills that are easily
> translatable to the job. So in attracting committers I think it would
> be good for the project to remain with the most common in-demand tools
> that people are most likely to see out in the marketplace.
>
> Glen
>
> On 12/11/2012 03:40 PM, Ichiro Furusato wrote:
>> Hi Andrew,
>>
>> I know it's terribly unfashionable to say this, and I understand
>> there has been a significant amount of work on 3.0 towards Stripes
>> (and perhaps this is also somewhat of an academic argument), but
>> I really much prefer the JSPs. No, there's no framework, no "real"
>> MVC, and this likely goes against the current of thought, but
>> frankly I consider the use of scriptlets a real benefit, not a
>> problem.
>>
>> JSPWiki is not so complicated an application, and wikis are by
>> nature a tinkerer's toy, that shoving everything up into a framework,
>> adding in complicated features that make modifying the site more
>> difficult, well, the move away from JSPs was one reason I was
>> considering moving away from the JSPWiki platform.
>>
>> It is after all named *JSP*Wiki. I happen to think that the
>> combination of JSPs, with their easy-to-edit combination of HTML
>> and Java code, as an ideal environment for customising wikis.
>> Maybe we could rebrand this project as "retro" and it would gain
>> enormous momentum.
>>
>> My 2 cents anyway...
>>
>> Ichiro
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Andrew Jaquith
>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> From the vantage point of someone who is inactive with the project,
>>> but
>>> also the principal author of the Stripes MVC integration:
>>>
>>> - Stripes had several goals, chiefly to (1) refactor the JSP
>>> scriptlet code
>>> out of the JSPs and into proper JavaBeans ("ActionBeans" in Stripes
>>> parlance)
>>> - Simplify JSP markup and input validation (replace HTML form tags with
>>> Stripes equivalents)
>>> - Replace the "command pattern" extensions to WikiContext,
>>> introduced in
>>> the 2.8 range, with something saner (the ActionBeans)
>>> - Create a more solid back-end interface for managing JSON requests
>>> from
>>> browsers
>>>
>>> Almost all of the forms porting was done, plus or minus a few
>>> things. I was
>>> pretty happy with how it turned out. There is some wickedly clever JSON
>>> processing in there (via the Interceptor classes) that was barely
>>> tapped;
>>> it would have radically simplified a lot of Dirk's code. Yes,
>>> Stripes is
>>> another framework, but it's pretty lightweight; and much, much
>>> lighter than
>>> Spring, for example. On the flip side, it's not in widespread use;
>>> indeed,
>>> Spring has pretty much steamrollered over most of the other JEE
>>> frameworks,
>>> even as lots of dev energy has left the Java world entirely.
>>>
>>> One more thing about 3.0. I added in some pretty solid code for
>>> integrating
>>> with LDAP and AD for authentication, group access controls, etc.
>>> This could
>>> be re-used in the 2.9 codebase pretty easily, with a little light
>>> refactoring.
>>>
>>> Whether the team wishes to use the rest of 3.0 code (including
>>> Stripes) is,
>>> of course, up to the team. If I can be a resource/mentor, let me know.
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 1:45 AM, Florian Holeczek
>>> <fl...@holeczek.de>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Ichiro,
>>>>
>>>> well, that's basically it - more than enough I'd say, since these
>>>> two are
>>>> really big points. You can have a look at www.jspwiki.org, there
>>>> are some
>>>> pages on 3.0, too.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Florian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail -----
>>>> Von: "Ichiro Furusato" <ic...@gmail.com>
>>>> An: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Gesendet: Sonntag, 9. Dezember 2012 23:53:08
>>>> Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
>>>>
>>>> For those of us who've not followed the 3.0 progress (or lack
>>>> thereof),
>>>> could
>>>> someone provide a very brief synopsis?
>>>>
>>>> My understanding is that the 2.8.x branch is fully functional and
>>>> basically an
>>>> update of the com.ecyrd.jspwiki code in Apache packaging, and that
>>>> the 3.0
>>>> branch was an attempt to rewrite the backend using Janne's JSR-170
>>>> subset,
>>>> but that hasn't moved forward. I didn't know about any plans for
>>>> Stripes.
>>>> But
>>>> this is all just a guess based on:
>>>>
>>>> A new effort is started to graduate with a 2.9 codebase (based
>>>> on 2.8),
>>>> so no JCR backend and no Stripes, but the traditional JSPWiki,
>>>> the
>>>> progress can still be followed at our JIRA issue tracker.
>>>>
>>>> [I'm frankly happy with the "traditional" 2.8/2.9 code base as it's
>>>> compatible with a substantial number of extant projects and plugins.
>>>> I'd prefer JSPs over Stripes, or anything that adds complication.]
>>>>
>>>> If there's a web page describing the goals of 3.0, a reference would
>>>> be good. The JIRA roadmap isn't that helpful.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Ichiro
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 12:31 AM, Florian Holeczek
>>>> <fl...@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> sooner or later we will have to decide on how to proceed with the 3.0
>>>>> efforts (available in the JSPWIKI_3_0_BRANCH).
>>>>> The discussion already started on a different thread (see below),
>>>>> but I
>>>>> think it's a good idea to explicitly continue it on a new thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> @Harry: I fully agree with your mail cited below.
>>>>> Though I wish it was different, I personally have little hope on
>>>>> reviving
>>>>> 3.0 without the help of Janne and Andrew, which seems unlikely at
>>>>> least
>>>> in
>>>>> the medium term.
>>>>>
>>>>> What do the others think, especially Janne and Andrew?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Florian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------- original message --------
>>>>> Subject: Re: [jira] [Commented] (JSPWIKI-713) Creating a page doesn't
>>>> work
>>>>> on 3.0
>>>>> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 12:12:59 +0100
>>>>> From: Harry Metske <ha...@gmail.com>
>>>>> Reply to: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> To: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Agree with that statement. But let's then decide what to do with 3.0
>>>> stuff.
>>>>> My main objection is that it is cluttering up our JIRA issue list,
>>>>> and it
>>>>> is misleading people.
>>>>>
>>>>> If anyone of us still has some hope on reviving 3.0 then I'm OK with
>>>>> leaving things as they are at the moment.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards,
>>>>> Harry
>>>>>
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
Posted by Ichiro Furusato <ic...@gmail.com>.
Hi Glen,
Well, I take Janne's opinion seriously, both as a developer and as originator of
the project. And if it's possible to use Stripes in such a way as we can still
muck around with JSPs (i.e., we still have a JSP-wiki), then if Stripes provides
a significant gain, then certainly, I'm fine with it. I think JSPWiki
could at this
point use a number of architectural simplifications & improved API abstractions,
and this sounds like something in line with that.
Ichiro
On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Glen Mazza <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK, happy to see a solid majority of the team has settled on Stripes and I'm
> looking forward to learning it. Hope Ichiro can be cool with it.
>
> Glen
>
>
> On 12/13/2012 01:54 PM, Harry Metske wrote:
>>
>> Well to be honest, for me exactly the same thing..
>>
>> regards,
>> Harry
>>
>>
>> On 13 December 2012 09:30, Janne Jalkanen <ja...@ecyrd.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Stripes
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
Posted by Glen Mazza <gl...@gmail.com>.
OK, happy to see a solid majority of the team has settled on Stripes and
I'm looking forward to learning it. Hope Ichiro can be cool with it.
Glen
On 12/13/2012 01:54 PM, Harry Metske wrote:
> Well to be honest, for me exactly the same thing..
>
> regards,
> Harry
>
>
> On 13 December 2012 09:30, Janne Jalkanen <ja...@ecyrd.com> wrote:
>
>> Stripes
Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
Posted by Harry Metske <ha...@gmail.com>.
Well to be honest, for me exactly the same thing..
regards,
Harry
On 13 December 2012 09:30, Janne Jalkanen <ja...@ecyrd.com> wrote:
> Stripes
Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
Posted by Janne Jalkanen <ja...@ecyrd.com>.
I'm using Stripes almost exclusively in my projects these days. It's seriously good, and does simplify things a lot (and in fact, it works really well with plain JSP, there's no need to take the Stripes tag library into use). The point about making testing easier cannot really be understated.
The way I'd do this is take the Stripes code for 3.0, but leave the JCR stuff behind.
/Janne
On 12 Dec 2012, at 02:07, Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think that the core idea of using Stripes is it's simplicity and
> easiness. Having worked with it the last 3 years with it, I've found it
> *way* easier than Spring MVC/Struts. I don't think of it as a replacement
> for all JSP-related stuff, but as a replacement of all the controller JSPs
> (./src/webdocs/*.jsp, which are 99% sriptlet). The big advantages here
> would be replacing JSP debugging with JUnit tests, having a more simple
> layer. Yes, that's doable with any modern framework, but with Stripes is so
> easy; I believe that it would greatly simplify the current model.
>
> However, looking at our current pace, carrying on with this migration would
> mean a lot of effort (time). Right now, I'd rather focus on other more
> community-growth oriented things, i.e., modularize current src, so it's
> easier to hop in. Seems that now it's not the time of switching to Stripes,
> and I don't know if we'll end switching (time + should be decided @dev),
> although I'd really like to. I think at least it's something
> worth-considering (a branch with a proof of concept on a 2.10 scope?).
>
> As for the LDAP + AD authentication, @Andrew any insights will be highly
> appreciated :-)
>
>
> regards,
> juan pablo
>
> On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 11:28 PM, Glen Mazza <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm inclined to agree with Ichiro here. Perhaps it is too late in the
>> game for me to comment, but if--if!--JSPWiki is going to use a framework I
>> would recommend a very commonly used one like Struts 2 or Spring MVC, even
>> if there are smaller competitors that may, in fact, be better. Part of the
>> allure of projects like JSPWiki is that it's web development that helps
>> strengthen skills that are easily translatable to the job. So in attracting
>> committers I think it would be good for the project to remain with the most
>> common in-demand tools that people are most likely to see out in the
>> marketplace.
>>
>> Glen
>>
>>
>> On 12/11/2012 03:40 PM, Ichiro Furusato wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Andrew,
>>>
>>> I know it's terribly unfashionable to say this, and I understand
>>> there has been a significant amount of work on 3.0 towards Stripes
>>> (and perhaps this is also somewhat of an academic argument), but
>>> I really much prefer the JSPs. No, there's no framework, no "real"
>>> MVC, and this likely goes against the current of thought, but
>>> frankly I consider the use of scriptlets a real benefit, not a
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> JSPWiki is not so complicated an application, and wikis are by
>>> nature a tinkerer's toy, that shoving everything up into a framework,
>>> adding in complicated features that make modifying the site more
>>> difficult, well, the move away from JSPs was one reason I was
>>> considering moving away from the JSPWiki platform.
>>>
>>> It is after all named *JSP*Wiki. I happen to think that the
>>> combination of JSPs, with their easy-to-edit combination of HTML
>>> and Java code, as an ideal environment for customising wikis.
>>> Maybe we could rebrand this project as "retro" and it would gain
>>> enormous momentum.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents anyway...
>>>
>>> Ichiro
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Andrew Jaquith
>>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From the vantage point of someone who is inactive with the project, but
>>>> also the principal author of the Stripes MVC integration:
>>>>
>>>> - Stripes had several goals, chiefly to (1) refactor the JSP scriptlet
>>>> code
>>>> out of the JSPs and into proper JavaBeans ("ActionBeans" in Stripes
>>>> parlance)
>>>> - Simplify JSP markup and input validation (replace HTML form tags with
>>>> Stripes equivalents)
>>>> - Replace the "command pattern" extensions to WikiContext, introduced in
>>>> the 2.8 range, with something saner (the ActionBeans)
>>>> - Create a more solid back-end interface for managing JSON requests from
>>>> browsers
>>>>
>>>> Almost all of the forms porting was done, plus or minus a few things. I
>>>> was
>>>> pretty happy with how it turned out. There is some wickedly clever JSON
>>>> processing in there (via the Interceptor classes) that was barely tapped;
>>>> it would have radically simplified a lot of Dirk's code. Yes, Stripes is
>>>> another framework, but it's pretty lightweight; and much, much lighter
>>>> than
>>>> Spring, for example. On the flip side, it's not in widespread use;
>>>> indeed,
>>>> Spring has pretty much steamrollered over most of the other JEE
>>>> frameworks,
>>>> even as lots of dev energy has left the Java world entirely.
>>>>
>>>> One more thing about 3.0. I added in some pretty solid code for
>>>> integrating
>>>> with LDAP and AD for authentication, group access controls, etc. This
>>>> could
>>>> be re-used in the 2.9 codebase pretty easily, with a little light
>>>> refactoring.
>>>>
>>>> Whether the team wishes to use the rest of 3.0 code (including Stripes)
>>>> is,
>>>> of course, up to the team. If I can be a resource/mentor, let me know.
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 1:45 AM, Florian Holeczek <florian@holeczek.de
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Ichiro,
>>>>>
>>>>> well, that's basically it - more than enough I'd say, since these two
>>>>> are
>>>>> really big points. You can have a look at www.jspwiki.org, there are
>>>>> some
>>>>> pages on 3.0, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Florian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail -----
>>>>> Von: "Ichiro Furusato" <ic...@gmail.com>
>>>>> An: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.**org<js...@incubator.apache.org>
>>>>> Gesendet: Sonntag, 9. Dezember 2012 23:53:08
>>>>> Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
>>>>>
>>>>> For those of us who've not followed the 3.0 progress (or lack thereof),
>>>>> could
>>>>> someone provide a very brief synopsis?
>>>>>
>>>>> My understanding is that the 2.8.x branch is fully functional and
>>>>> basically an
>>>>> update of the com.ecyrd.jspwiki code in Apache packaging, and that the
>>>>> 3.0
>>>>> branch was an attempt to rewrite the backend using Janne's JSR-170
>>>>> subset,
>>>>> but that hasn't moved forward. I didn't know about any plans for
>>>>> Stripes.
>>>>> But
>>>>> this is all just a guess based on:
>>>>>
>>>>> A new effort is started to graduate with a 2.9 codebase (based on
>>>>> 2.8),
>>>>> so no JCR backend and no Stripes, but the traditional JSPWiki, the
>>>>> progress can still be followed at our JIRA issue tracker.
>>>>>
>>>>> [I'm frankly happy with the "traditional" 2.8/2.9 code base as it's
>>>>> compatible with a substantial number of extant projects and plugins.
>>>>> I'd prefer JSPs over Stripes, or anything that adds complication.]
>>>>>
>>>>> If there's a web page describing the goals of 3.0, a reference would
>>>>> be good. The JIRA roadmap isn't that helpful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ichiro
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 12:31 AM, Florian Holeczek <florianh@apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> sooner or later we will have to decide on how to proceed with the 3.0
>>>>>> efforts (available in the JSPWIKI_3_0_BRANCH).
>>>>>> The discussion already started on a different thread (see below), but I
>>>>>> think it's a good idea to explicitly continue it on a new thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> @Harry: I fully agree with your mail cited below.
>>>>>> Though I wish it was different, I personally have little hope on
>>>>>> reviving
>>>>>> 3.0 without the help of Janne and Andrew, which seems unlikely at least
>>>>>>
>>>>> in
>>>>>
>>>>>> the medium term.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do the others think, especially Janne and Andrew?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Florian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------- original message --------
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [jira] [Commented] (JSPWIKI-713) Creating a page doesn't
>>>>>>
>>>>> work
>>>>>
>>>>>> on 3.0
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 12:12:59 +0100
>>>>>> From: Harry Metske <ha...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> Reply to: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.**org<js...@incubator.apache.org>
>>>>>> To: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.**org<js...@incubator.apache.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agree with that statement. But let's then decide what to do with 3.0
>>>>>>
>>>>> stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>>> My main objection is that it is cluttering up our JIRA issue list, and
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> is misleading people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If anyone of us still has some hope on reviving 3.0 then I'm OK with
>>>>>> leaving things as they are at the moment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>> Harry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
Posted by Glen Mazza <gl...@gmail.com>.
OK, I haven't looked at Stripes much but from what you're saying it's
still a JSP front-end, so at least that portion of Ichiro's concerns
would be alleviated if we went to Stripes, even if the controller code
would be rewritten to Java. I like what you're saying about moving more
of the code from scriptlets to JUnit-testable Java classes. If we
switch to a framework I think we primarily would need a trailblazer to
convert the code over (preferably the person who is most comfortable
with the framework we're switching to); once done, it's normally pretty
easy for others to extrapolate what needs to be done to update it.
I can't see any immediate benefit of Struts over Stripes, but one thing
to consider about Spring MVC though, even if it is more complex/clumsy
to set up, is that once you put Spring into your application it might be
easier to incorporate more of Spring's bells and whistles--maybe with
security, maybe other things JSPWiki may wish to quickly grab as it goes
along. Then again, it is a heavier framework that might end up slowing
JSPWiki down.
Glen
On 12/11/2012 07:07 PM, Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think that the core idea of using Stripes is it's simplicity and
> easiness. Having worked with it the last 3 years with it, I've found it
> *way* easier than Spring MVC/Struts. I don't think of it as a replacement
> for all JSP-related stuff, but as a replacement of all the controller JSPs
> (./src/webdocs/*.jsp, which are 99% sriptlet). The big advantages here
> would be replacing JSP debugging with JUnit tests, having a more simple
> layer. Yes, that's doable with any modern framework, but with Stripes is so
> easy; I believe that it would greatly simplify the current model.
>
> However, looking at our current pace, carrying on with this migration would
> mean a lot of effort (time). Right now, I'd rather focus on other more
> community-growth oriented things, i.e., modularize current src, so it's
> easier to hop in. Seems that now it's not the time of switching to Stripes,
> and I don't know if we'll end switching (time + should be decided @dev),
> although I'd really like to. I think at least it's something
> worth-considering (a branch with a proof of concept on a 2.10 scope?).
>
> As for the LDAP + AD authentication, @Andrew any insights will be highly
> appreciated :-)
>
>
> regards,
> juan pablo
>
> On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 11:28 PM, Glen Mazza<gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm inclined to agree with Ichiro here. Perhaps it is too late in the
>> game for me to comment, but if--if!--JSPWiki is going to use a framework I
>> would recommend a very commonly used one like Struts 2 or Spring MVC, even
>> if there are smaller competitors that may, in fact, be better. Part of the
>> allure of projects like JSPWiki is that it's web development that helps
>> strengthen skills that are easily translatable to the job. So in attracting
>> committers I think it would be good for the project to remain with the most
>> common in-demand tools that people are most likely to see out in the
>> marketplace.
>>
>> Glen
>>
>>
>> On 12/11/2012 03:40 PM, Ichiro Furusato wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Andrew,
>>>
>>> I know it's terribly unfashionable to say this, and I understand
>>> there has been a significant amount of work on 3.0 towards Stripes
>>> (and perhaps this is also somewhat of an academic argument), but
>>> I really much prefer the JSPs. No, there's no framework, no "real"
>>> MVC, and this likely goes against the current of thought, but
>>> frankly I consider the use of scriptlets a real benefit, not a
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> JSPWiki is not so complicated an application, and wikis are by
>>> nature a tinkerer's toy, that shoving everything up into a framework,
>>> adding in complicated features that make modifying the site more
>>> difficult, well, the move away from JSPs was one reason I was
>>> considering moving away from the JSPWiki platform.
>>>
>>> It is after all named *JSP*Wiki. I happen to think that the
>>> combination of JSPs, with their easy-to-edit combination of HTML
>>> and Java code, as an ideal environment for customising wikis.
>>> Maybe we could rebrand this project as "retro" and it would gain
>>> enormous momentum.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents anyway...
>>>
>>> Ichiro
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Andrew Jaquith
>>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From the vantage point of someone who is inactive with the project, but
>>>> also the principal author of the Stripes MVC integration:
>>>>
>>>> - Stripes had several goals, chiefly to (1) refactor the JSP scriptlet
>>>> code
>>>> out of the JSPs and into proper JavaBeans ("ActionBeans" in Stripes
>>>> parlance)
>>>> - Simplify JSP markup and input validation (replace HTML form tags with
>>>> Stripes equivalents)
>>>> - Replace the "command pattern" extensions to WikiContext, introduced in
>>>> the 2.8 range, with something saner (the ActionBeans)
>>>> - Create a more solid back-end interface for managing JSON requests from
>>>> browsers
>>>>
>>>> Almost all of the forms porting was done, plus or minus a few things. I
>>>> was
>>>> pretty happy with how it turned out. There is some wickedly clever JSON
>>>> processing in there (via the Interceptor classes) that was barely tapped;
>>>> it would have radically simplified a lot of Dirk's code. Yes, Stripes is
>>>> another framework, but it's pretty lightweight; and much, much lighter
>>>> than
>>>> Spring, for example. On the flip side, it's not in widespread use;
>>>> indeed,
>>>> Spring has pretty much steamrollered over most of the other JEE
>>>> frameworks,
>>>> even as lots of dev energy has left the Java world entirely.
>>>>
>>>> One more thing about 3.0. I added in some pretty solid code for
>>>> integrating
>>>> with LDAP and AD for authentication, group access controls, etc. This
>>>> could
>>>> be re-used in the 2.9 codebase pretty easily, with a little light
>>>> refactoring.
>>>>
>>>> Whether the team wishes to use the rest of 3.0 code (including Stripes)
>>>> is,
>>>> of course, up to the team. If I can be a resource/mentor, let me know.
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 1:45 AM, Florian Holeczek <florian@holeczek.de
>>>>> wrote:
>>>> Hi Ichiro,
>>>>> well, that's basically it - more than enough I'd say, since these two
>>>>> are
>>>>> really big points. You can have a look atwww.jspwiki.org, there are
>>>>> some
>>>>> pages on 3.0, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Florian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail -----
>>>>> Von: "Ichiro Furusato"<ic...@gmail.com>
>>>>> An:jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.**org<js...@incubator.apache.org>
>>>>> Gesendet: Sonntag, 9. Dezember 2012 23:53:08
>>>>> Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
>>>>>
>>>>> For those of us who've not followed the 3.0 progress (or lack thereof),
>>>>> could
>>>>> someone provide a very brief synopsis?
>>>>>
>>>>> My understanding is that the 2.8.x branch is fully functional and
>>>>> basically an
>>>>> update of the com.ecyrd.jspwiki code in Apache packaging, and that the
>>>>> 3.0
>>>>> branch was an attempt to rewrite the backend using Janne's JSR-170
>>>>> subset,
>>>>> but that hasn't moved forward. I didn't know about any plans for
>>>>> Stripes.
>>>>> But
>>>>> this is all just a guess based on:
>>>>>
>>>>> A new effort is started to graduate with a 2.9 codebase (based on
>>>>> 2.8),
>>>>> so no JCR backend and no Stripes, but the traditional JSPWiki, the
>>>>> progress can still be followed at our JIRA issue tracker.
>>>>>
>>>>> [I'm frankly happy with the "traditional" 2.8/2.9 code base as it's
>>>>> compatible with a substantial number of extant projects and plugins.
>>>>> I'd prefer JSPs over Stripes, or anything that adds complication.]
>>>>>
>>>>> If there's a web page describing the goals of 3.0, a reference would
>>>>> be good. The JIRA roadmap isn't that helpful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ichiro
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 12:31 AM, Florian Holeczek <florianh@apache.org
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> sooner or later we will have to decide on how to proceed with the 3.0
>>>>>> efforts (available in the JSPWIKI_3_0_BRANCH).
>>>>>> The discussion already started on a different thread (see below), but I
>>>>>> think it's a good idea to explicitly continue it on a new thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> @Harry: I fully agree with your mail cited below.
>>>>>> Though I wish it was different, I personally have little hope on
>>>>>> reviving
>>>>>> 3.0 without the help of Janne and Andrew, which seems unlikely at least
>>>>>>
>>>>> in
>>>>>
>>>>>> the medium term.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do the others think, especially Janne and Andrew?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Florian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------- original message --------
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [jira] [Commented] (JSPWIKI-713) Creating a page doesn't
>>>>>>
>>>>> work
>>>>>
>>>>>> on 3.0
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 12:12:59 +0100
>>>>>> From: Harry Metske<ha...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> Reply to:jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.**org<js...@incubator.apache.org>
>>>>>> To:jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.**org<js...@incubator.apache.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agree with that statement. But let's then decide what to do with 3.0
>>>>>>
>>>>> stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>>> My main objection is that it is cluttering up our JIRA issue list, and
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> is misleading people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If anyone of us still has some hope on reviving 3.0 then I'm OK with
>>>>>> leaving things as they are at the moment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>> Harry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
Posted by Christophe Dupriez <du...@destin.be>.
For LDAP/AD, I am using Waffle and ContainerAuthentication and I am very
satisfied.
Was working well in 32 bits, works well also in 64 bits.
Dependencies / modifications in JSPWiki are very reduced.
AD Groups becomes Authentication roles for JSPWiki.
Users are automatically logged in JSPWiki with their Microsoft
workstation login.
Have a nice day!
Christophe
Le 12/12/2012 01:07, Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> I think that the core idea of using Stripes is it's simplicity and
> easiness. Having worked with it the last 3 years with it, I've found it
> *way* easier than Spring MVC/Struts. I don't think of it as a replacement
> for all JSP-related stuff, but as a replacement of all the controller JSPs
> (./src/webdocs/*.jsp, which are 99% sriptlet). The big advantages here
> would be replacing JSP debugging with JUnit tests, having a more simple
> layer. Yes, that's doable with any modern framework, but with Stripes is so
> easy; I believe that it would greatly simplify the current model.
>
> However, looking at our current pace, carrying on with this migration would
> mean a lot of effort (time). Right now, I'd rather focus on other more
> community-growth oriented things, i.e., modularize current src, so it's
> easier to hop in. Seems that now it's not the time of switching to Stripes,
> and I don't know if we'll end switching (time + should be decided @dev),
> although I'd really like to. I think at least it's something
> worth-considering (a branch with a proof of concept on a 2.10 scope?).
>
> As for the LDAP + AD authentication, @Andrew any insights will be highly
> appreciated :-)
>
>
> regards,
> juan pablo
>
> On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 11:28 PM, Glen Mazza <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm inclined to agree with Ichiro here. Perhaps it is too late in the
>> game for me to comment, but if--if!--JSPWiki is going to use a framework I
>> would recommend a very commonly used one like Struts 2 or Spring MVC, even
>> if there are smaller competitors that may, in fact, be better. Part of the
>> allure of projects like JSPWiki is that it's web development that helps
>> strengthen skills that are easily translatable to the job. So in attracting
>> committers I think it would be good for the project to remain with the most
>> common in-demand tools that people are most likely to see out in the
>> marketplace.
>>
>> Glen
>>
>>
>> On 12/11/2012 03:40 PM, Ichiro Furusato wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Andrew,
>>>
>>> I know it's terribly unfashionable to say this, and I understand
>>> there has been a significant amount of work on 3.0 towards Stripes
>>> (and perhaps this is also somewhat of an academic argument), but
>>> I really much prefer the JSPs. No, there's no framework, no "real"
>>> MVC, and this likely goes against the current of thought, but
>>> frankly I consider the use of scriptlets a real benefit, not a
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> JSPWiki is not so complicated an application, and wikis are by
>>> nature a tinkerer's toy, that shoving everything up into a framework,
>>> adding in complicated features that make modifying the site more
>>> difficult, well, the move away from JSPs was one reason I was
>>> considering moving away from the JSPWiki platform.
>>>
>>> It is after all named *JSP*Wiki. I happen to think that the
>>> combination of JSPs, with their easy-to-edit combination of HTML
>>> and Java code, as an ideal environment for customising wikis.
>>> Maybe we could rebrand this project as "retro" and it would gain
>>> enormous momentum.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents anyway...
>>>
>>> Ichiro
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Andrew Jaquith
>>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From the vantage point of someone who is inactive with the project, but
>>>> also the principal author of the Stripes MVC integration:
>>>>
>>>> - Stripes had several goals, chiefly to (1) refactor the JSP scriptlet
>>>> code
>>>> out of the JSPs and into proper JavaBeans ("ActionBeans" in Stripes
>>>> parlance)
>>>> - Simplify JSP markup and input validation (replace HTML form tags with
>>>> Stripes equivalents)
>>>> - Replace the "command pattern" extensions to WikiContext, introduced in
>>>> the 2.8 range, with something saner (the ActionBeans)
>>>> - Create a more solid back-end interface for managing JSON requests from
>>>> browsers
>>>>
>>>> Almost all of the forms porting was done, plus or minus a few things. I
>>>> was
>>>> pretty happy with how it turned out. There is some wickedly clever JSON
>>>> processing in there (via the Interceptor classes) that was barely tapped;
>>>> it would have radically simplified a lot of Dirk's code. Yes, Stripes is
>>>> another framework, but it's pretty lightweight; and much, much lighter
>>>> than
>>>> Spring, for example. On the flip side, it's not in widespread use;
>>>> indeed,
>>>> Spring has pretty much steamrollered over most of the other JEE
>>>> frameworks,
>>>> even as lots of dev energy has left the Java world entirely.
>>>>
>>>> One more thing about 3.0. I added in some pretty solid code for
>>>> integrating
>>>> with LDAP and AD for authentication, group access controls, etc. This
>>>> could
>>>> be re-used in the 2.9 codebase pretty easily, with a little light
>>>> refactoring.
>>>>
>>>> Whether the team wishes to use the rest of 3.0 code (including Stripes)
>>>> is,
>>>> of course, up to the team. If I can be a resource/mentor, let me know.
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 1:45 AM, Florian Holeczek <florian@holeczek.de
>>>>> wrote:
>>>> Hi Ichiro,
>>>>> well, that's basically it - more than enough I'd say, since these two
>>>>> are
>>>>> really big points. You can have a look at www.jspwiki.org, there are
>>>>> some
>>>>> pages on 3.0, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Florian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail -----
>>>>> Von: "Ichiro Furusato" <ic...@gmail.com>
>>>>> An: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.**org<js...@incubator.apache.org>
>>>>> Gesendet: Sonntag, 9. Dezember 2012 23:53:08
>>>>> Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
>>>>>
>>>>> For those of us who've not followed the 3.0 progress (or lack thereof),
>>>>> could
>>>>> someone provide a very brief synopsis?
>>>>>
>>>>> My understanding is that the 2.8.x branch is fully functional and
>>>>> basically an
>>>>> update of the com.ecyrd.jspwiki code in Apache packaging, and that the
>>>>> 3.0
>>>>> branch was an attempt to rewrite the backend using Janne's JSR-170
>>>>> subset,
>>>>> but that hasn't moved forward. I didn't know about any plans for
>>>>> Stripes.
>>>>> But
>>>>> this is all just a guess based on:
>>>>>
>>>>> A new effort is started to graduate with a 2.9 codebase (based on
>>>>> 2.8),
>>>>> so no JCR backend and no Stripes, but the traditional JSPWiki, the
>>>>> progress can still be followed at our JIRA issue tracker.
>>>>>
>>>>> [I'm frankly happy with the "traditional" 2.8/2.9 code base as it's
>>>>> compatible with a substantial number of extant projects and plugins.
>>>>> I'd prefer JSPs over Stripes, or anything that adds complication.]
>>>>>
>>>>> If there's a web page describing the goals of 3.0, a reference would
>>>>> be good. The JIRA roadmap isn't that helpful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ichiro
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 12:31 AM, Florian Holeczek <florianh@apache.org
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> sooner or later we will have to decide on how to proceed with the 3.0
>>>>>> efforts (available in the JSPWIKI_3_0_BRANCH).
>>>>>> The discussion already started on a different thread (see below), but I
>>>>>> think it's a good idea to explicitly continue it on a new thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> @Harry: I fully agree with your mail cited below.
>>>>>> Though I wish it was different, I personally have little hope on
>>>>>> reviving
>>>>>> 3.0 without the help of Janne and Andrew, which seems unlikely at least
>>>>>>
>>>>> in
>>>>>
>>>>>> the medium term.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do the others think, especially Janne and Andrew?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Florian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------- original message --------
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [jira] [Commented] (JSPWIKI-713) Creating a page doesn't
>>>>>>
>>>>> work
>>>>>
>>>>>> on 3.0
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 12:12:59 +0100
>>>>>> From: Harry Metske <ha...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> Reply to: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.**org<js...@incubator.apache.org>
>>>>>> To: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.**org<js...@incubator.apache.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agree with that statement. But let's then decide what to do with 3.0
>>>>>>
>>>>> stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>>> My main objection is that it is cluttering up our JIRA issue list, and
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> is misleading people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If anyone of us still has some hope on reviving 3.0 then I'm OK with
>>>>>> leaving things as they are at the moment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>> Harry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
Posted by Juan Pablo Santos Rodríguez <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
I think that the core idea of using Stripes is it's simplicity and
easiness. Having worked with it the last 3 years with it, I've found it
*way* easier than Spring MVC/Struts. I don't think of it as a replacement
for all JSP-related stuff, but as a replacement of all the controller JSPs
(./src/webdocs/*.jsp, which are 99% sriptlet). The big advantages here
would be replacing JSP debugging with JUnit tests, having a more simple
layer. Yes, that's doable with any modern framework, but with Stripes is so
easy; I believe that it would greatly simplify the current model.
However, looking at our current pace, carrying on with this migration would
mean a lot of effort (time). Right now, I'd rather focus on other more
community-growth oriented things, i.e., modularize current src, so it's
easier to hop in. Seems that now it's not the time of switching to Stripes,
and I don't know if we'll end switching (time + should be decided @dev),
although I'd really like to. I think at least it's something
worth-considering (a branch with a proof of concept on a 2.10 scope?).
As for the LDAP + AD authentication, @Andrew any insights will be highly
appreciated :-)
regards,
juan pablo
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 11:28 PM, Glen Mazza <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm inclined to agree with Ichiro here. Perhaps it is too late in the
> game for me to comment, but if--if!--JSPWiki is going to use a framework I
> would recommend a very commonly used one like Struts 2 or Spring MVC, even
> if there are smaller competitors that may, in fact, be better. Part of the
> allure of projects like JSPWiki is that it's web development that helps
> strengthen skills that are easily translatable to the job. So in attracting
> committers I think it would be good for the project to remain with the most
> common in-demand tools that people are most likely to see out in the
> marketplace.
>
> Glen
>
>
> On 12/11/2012 03:40 PM, Ichiro Furusato wrote:
>
>> Hi Andrew,
>>
>> I know it's terribly unfashionable to say this, and I understand
>> there has been a significant amount of work on 3.0 towards Stripes
>> (and perhaps this is also somewhat of an academic argument), but
>> I really much prefer the JSPs. No, there's no framework, no "real"
>> MVC, and this likely goes against the current of thought, but
>> frankly I consider the use of scriptlets a real benefit, not a
>> problem.
>>
>> JSPWiki is not so complicated an application, and wikis are by
>> nature a tinkerer's toy, that shoving everything up into a framework,
>> adding in complicated features that make modifying the site more
>> difficult, well, the move away from JSPs was one reason I was
>> considering moving away from the JSPWiki platform.
>>
>> It is after all named *JSP*Wiki. I happen to think that the
>> combination of JSPs, with their easy-to-edit combination of HTML
>> and Java code, as an ideal environment for customising wikis.
>> Maybe we could rebrand this project as "retro" and it would gain
>> enormous momentum.
>>
>> My 2 cents anyway...
>>
>> Ichiro
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Andrew Jaquith
>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From the vantage point of someone who is inactive with the project, but
>>> also the principal author of the Stripes MVC integration:
>>>
>>> - Stripes had several goals, chiefly to (1) refactor the JSP scriptlet
>>> code
>>> out of the JSPs and into proper JavaBeans ("ActionBeans" in Stripes
>>> parlance)
>>> - Simplify JSP markup and input validation (replace HTML form tags with
>>> Stripes equivalents)
>>> - Replace the "command pattern" extensions to WikiContext, introduced in
>>> the 2.8 range, with something saner (the ActionBeans)
>>> - Create a more solid back-end interface for managing JSON requests from
>>> browsers
>>>
>>> Almost all of the forms porting was done, plus or minus a few things. I
>>> was
>>> pretty happy with how it turned out. There is some wickedly clever JSON
>>> processing in there (via the Interceptor classes) that was barely tapped;
>>> it would have radically simplified a lot of Dirk's code. Yes, Stripes is
>>> another framework, but it's pretty lightweight; and much, much lighter
>>> than
>>> Spring, for example. On the flip side, it's not in widespread use;
>>> indeed,
>>> Spring has pretty much steamrollered over most of the other JEE
>>> frameworks,
>>> even as lots of dev energy has left the Java world entirely.
>>>
>>> One more thing about 3.0. I added in some pretty solid code for
>>> integrating
>>> with LDAP and AD for authentication, group access controls, etc. This
>>> could
>>> be re-used in the 2.9 codebase pretty easily, with a little light
>>> refactoring.
>>>
>>> Whether the team wishes to use the rest of 3.0 code (including Stripes)
>>> is,
>>> of course, up to the team. If I can be a resource/mentor, let me know.
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 1:45 AM, Florian Holeczek <florian@holeczek.de
>>> >wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Ichiro,
>>>>
>>>> well, that's basically it - more than enough I'd say, since these two
>>>> are
>>>> really big points. You can have a look at www.jspwiki.org, there are
>>>> some
>>>> pages on 3.0, too.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Florian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail -----
>>>> Von: "Ichiro Furusato" <ic...@gmail.com>
>>>> An: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.**org<js...@incubator.apache.org>
>>>> Gesendet: Sonntag, 9. Dezember 2012 23:53:08
>>>> Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
>>>>
>>>> For those of us who've not followed the 3.0 progress (or lack thereof),
>>>> could
>>>> someone provide a very brief synopsis?
>>>>
>>>> My understanding is that the 2.8.x branch is fully functional and
>>>> basically an
>>>> update of the com.ecyrd.jspwiki code in Apache packaging, and that the
>>>> 3.0
>>>> branch was an attempt to rewrite the backend using Janne's JSR-170
>>>> subset,
>>>> but that hasn't moved forward. I didn't know about any plans for
>>>> Stripes.
>>>> But
>>>> this is all just a guess based on:
>>>>
>>>> A new effort is started to graduate with a 2.9 codebase (based on
>>>> 2.8),
>>>> so no JCR backend and no Stripes, but the traditional JSPWiki, the
>>>> progress can still be followed at our JIRA issue tracker.
>>>>
>>>> [I'm frankly happy with the "traditional" 2.8/2.9 code base as it's
>>>> compatible with a substantial number of extant projects and plugins.
>>>> I'd prefer JSPs over Stripes, or anything that adds complication.]
>>>>
>>>> If there's a web page describing the goals of 3.0, a reference would
>>>> be good. The JIRA roadmap isn't that helpful.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Ichiro
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 12:31 AM, Florian Holeczek <florianh@apache.org
>>>> >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> sooner or later we will have to decide on how to proceed with the 3.0
>>>>> efforts (available in the JSPWIKI_3_0_BRANCH).
>>>>> The discussion already started on a different thread (see below), but I
>>>>> think it's a good idea to explicitly continue it on a new thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> @Harry: I fully agree with your mail cited below.
>>>>> Though I wish it was different, I personally have little hope on
>>>>> reviving
>>>>> 3.0 without the help of Janne and Andrew, which seems unlikely at least
>>>>>
>>>> in
>>>>
>>>>> the medium term.
>>>>>
>>>>> What do the others think, especially Janne and Andrew?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Florian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------- original message --------
>>>>> Subject: Re: [jira] [Commented] (JSPWIKI-713) Creating a page doesn't
>>>>>
>>>> work
>>>>
>>>>> on 3.0
>>>>> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 12:12:59 +0100
>>>>> From: Harry Metske <ha...@gmail.com>
>>>>> Reply to: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.**org<js...@incubator.apache.org>
>>>>> To: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.**org<js...@incubator.apache.org>
>>>>>
>>>>> Agree with that statement. But let's then decide what to do with 3.0
>>>>>
>>>> stuff.
>>>>
>>>>> My main objection is that it is cluttering up our JIRA issue list, and
>>>>> it
>>>>> is misleading people.
>>>>>
>>>>> If anyone of us still has some hope on reviving 3.0 then I'm OK with
>>>>> leaving things as they are at the moment.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards,
>>>>> Harry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
Posted by Glen Mazza <gl...@gmail.com>.
I'm inclined to agree with Ichiro here. Perhaps it is too late in the
game for me to comment, but if--if!--JSPWiki is going to use a framework
I would recommend a very commonly used one like Struts 2 or Spring MVC,
even if there are smaller competitors that may, in fact, be better.
Part of the allure of projects like JSPWiki is that it's web development
that helps strengthen skills that are easily translatable to the job. So
in attracting committers I think it would be good for the project to
remain with the most common in-demand tools that people are most likely
to see out in the marketplace.
Glen
On 12/11/2012 03:40 PM, Ichiro Furusato wrote:
> Hi Andrew,
>
> I know it's terribly unfashionable to say this, and I understand
> there has been a significant amount of work on 3.0 towards Stripes
> (and perhaps this is also somewhat of an academic argument), but
> I really much prefer the JSPs. No, there's no framework, no "real"
> MVC, and this likely goes against the current of thought, but
> frankly I consider the use of scriptlets a real benefit, not a
> problem.
>
> JSPWiki is not so complicated an application, and wikis are by
> nature a tinkerer's toy, that shoving everything up into a framework,
> adding in complicated features that make modifying the site more
> difficult, well, the move away from JSPs was one reason I was
> considering moving away from the JSPWiki platform.
>
> It is after all named *JSP*Wiki. I happen to think that the
> combination of JSPs, with their easy-to-edit combination of HTML
> and Java code, as an ideal environment for customising wikis.
> Maybe we could rebrand this project as "retro" and it would gain
> enormous momentum.
>
> My 2 cents anyway...
>
> Ichiro
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Andrew Jaquith
> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> From the vantage point of someone who is inactive with the project, but
>> also the principal author of the Stripes MVC integration:
>>
>> - Stripes had several goals, chiefly to (1) refactor the JSP scriptlet code
>> out of the JSPs and into proper JavaBeans ("ActionBeans" in Stripes
>> parlance)
>> - Simplify JSP markup and input validation (replace HTML form tags with
>> Stripes equivalents)
>> - Replace the "command pattern" extensions to WikiContext, introduced in
>> the 2.8 range, with something saner (the ActionBeans)
>> - Create a more solid back-end interface for managing JSON requests from
>> browsers
>>
>> Almost all of the forms porting was done, plus or minus a few things. I was
>> pretty happy with how it turned out. There is some wickedly clever JSON
>> processing in there (via the Interceptor classes) that was barely tapped;
>> it would have radically simplified a lot of Dirk's code. Yes, Stripes is
>> another framework, but it's pretty lightweight; and much, much lighter than
>> Spring, for example. On the flip side, it's not in widespread use; indeed,
>> Spring has pretty much steamrollered over most of the other JEE frameworks,
>> even as lots of dev energy has left the Java world entirely.
>>
>> One more thing about 3.0. I added in some pretty solid code for integrating
>> with LDAP and AD for authentication, group access controls, etc. This could
>> be re-used in the 2.9 codebase pretty easily, with a little light
>> refactoring.
>>
>> Whether the team wishes to use the rest of 3.0 code (including Stripes) is,
>> of course, up to the team. If I can be a resource/mentor, let me know.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 1:45 AM, Florian Holeczek <fl...@holeczek.de>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ichiro,
>>>
>>> well, that's basically it - more than enough I'd say, since these two are
>>> really big points. You can have a look at www.jspwiki.org, there are some
>>> pages on 3.0, too.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Florian
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail -----
>>> Von: "Ichiro Furusato" <ic...@gmail.com>
>>> An: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Gesendet: Sonntag, 9. Dezember 2012 23:53:08
>>> Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
>>>
>>> For those of us who've not followed the 3.0 progress (or lack thereof),
>>> could
>>> someone provide a very brief synopsis?
>>>
>>> My understanding is that the 2.8.x branch is fully functional and
>>> basically an
>>> update of the com.ecyrd.jspwiki code in Apache packaging, and that the 3.0
>>> branch was an attempt to rewrite the backend using Janne's JSR-170 subset,
>>> but that hasn't moved forward. I didn't know about any plans for Stripes.
>>> But
>>> this is all just a guess based on:
>>>
>>> A new effort is started to graduate with a 2.9 codebase (based on 2.8),
>>> so no JCR backend and no Stripes, but the traditional JSPWiki, the
>>> progress can still be followed at our JIRA issue tracker.
>>>
>>> [I'm frankly happy with the "traditional" 2.8/2.9 code base as it's
>>> compatible with a substantial number of extant projects and plugins.
>>> I'd prefer JSPs over Stripes, or anything that adds complication.]
>>>
>>> If there's a web page describing the goals of 3.0, a reference would
>>> be good. The JIRA roadmap isn't that helpful.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ichiro
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 12:31 AM, Florian Holeczek <fl...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> sooner or later we will have to decide on how to proceed with the 3.0
>>>> efforts (available in the JSPWIKI_3_0_BRANCH).
>>>> The discussion already started on a different thread (see below), but I
>>>> think it's a good idea to explicitly continue it on a new thread.
>>>>
>>>> @Harry: I fully agree with your mail cited below.
>>>> Though I wish it was different, I personally have little hope on reviving
>>>> 3.0 without the help of Janne and Andrew, which seems unlikely at least
>>> in
>>>> the medium term.
>>>>
>>>> What do the others think, especially Janne and Andrew?
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Florian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------- original message --------
>>>> Subject: Re: [jira] [Commented] (JSPWIKI-713) Creating a page doesn't
>>> work
>>>> on 3.0
>>>> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 12:12:59 +0100
>>>> From: Harry Metske <ha...@gmail.com>
>>>> Reply to: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>> To: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>> Agree with that statement. But let's then decide what to do with 3.0
>>> stuff.
>>>> My main objection is that it is cluttering up our JIRA issue list, and it
>>>> is misleading people.
>>>>
>>>> If anyone of us still has some hope on reviving 3.0 then I'm OK with
>>>> leaving things as they are at the moment.
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>> Harry
>>>>
Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
Posted by Ichiro Furusato <ic...@gmail.com>.
Hi Andrew,
I know it's terribly unfashionable to say this, and I understand
there has been a significant amount of work on 3.0 towards Stripes
(and perhaps this is also somewhat of an academic argument), but
I really much prefer the JSPs. No, there's no framework, no "real"
MVC, and this likely goes against the current of thought, but
frankly I consider the use of scriptlets a real benefit, not a
problem.
JSPWiki is not so complicated an application, and wikis are by
nature a tinkerer's toy, that shoving everything up into a framework,
adding in complicated features that make modifying the site more
difficult, well, the move away from JSPs was one reason I was
considering moving away from the JSPWiki platform.
It is after all named *JSP*Wiki. I happen to think that the
combination of JSPs, with their easy-to-edit combination of HTML
and Java code, as an ideal environment for customising wikis.
Maybe we could rebrand this project as "retro" and it would gain
enormous momentum.
My 2 cents anyway...
Ichiro
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Andrew Jaquith
<an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> From the vantage point of someone who is inactive with the project, but
> also the principal author of the Stripes MVC integration:
>
> - Stripes had several goals, chiefly to (1) refactor the JSP scriptlet code
> out of the JSPs and into proper JavaBeans ("ActionBeans" in Stripes
> parlance)
> - Simplify JSP markup and input validation (replace HTML form tags with
> Stripes equivalents)
> - Replace the "command pattern" extensions to WikiContext, introduced in
> the 2.8 range, with something saner (the ActionBeans)
> - Create a more solid back-end interface for managing JSON requests from
> browsers
>
> Almost all of the forms porting was done, plus or minus a few things. I was
> pretty happy with how it turned out. There is some wickedly clever JSON
> processing in there (via the Interceptor classes) that was barely tapped;
> it would have radically simplified a lot of Dirk's code. Yes, Stripes is
> another framework, but it's pretty lightweight; and much, much lighter than
> Spring, for example. On the flip side, it's not in widespread use; indeed,
> Spring has pretty much steamrollered over most of the other JEE frameworks,
> even as lots of dev energy has left the Java world entirely.
>
> One more thing about 3.0. I added in some pretty solid code for integrating
> with LDAP and AD for authentication, group access controls, etc. This could
> be re-used in the 2.9 codebase pretty easily, with a little light
> refactoring.
>
> Whether the team wishes to use the rest of 3.0 code (including Stripes) is,
> of course, up to the team. If I can be a resource/mentor, let me know.
>
> Andrew
>
> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 1:45 AM, Florian Holeczek <fl...@holeczek.de>wrote:
>
>> Hi Ichiro,
>>
>> well, that's basically it - more than enough I'd say, since these two are
>> really big points. You can have a look at www.jspwiki.org, there are some
>> pages on 3.0, too.
>>
>> Regards
>> Florian
>>
>>
>> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail -----
>> Von: "Ichiro Furusato" <ic...@gmail.com>
>> An: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Gesendet: Sonntag, 9. Dezember 2012 23:53:08
>> Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
>>
>> For those of us who've not followed the 3.0 progress (or lack thereof),
>> could
>> someone provide a very brief synopsis?
>>
>> My understanding is that the 2.8.x branch is fully functional and
>> basically an
>> update of the com.ecyrd.jspwiki code in Apache packaging, and that the 3.0
>> branch was an attempt to rewrite the backend using Janne's JSR-170 subset,
>> but that hasn't moved forward. I didn't know about any plans for Stripes.
>> But
>> this is all just a guess based on:
>>
>> A new effort is started to graduate with a 2.9 codebase (based on 2.8),
>> so no JCR backend and no Stripes, but the traditional JSPWiki, the
>> progress can still be followed at our JIRA issue tracker.
>>
>> [I'm frankly happy with the "traditional" 2.8/2.9 code base as it's
>> compatible with a substantial number of extant projects and plugins.
>> I'd prefer JSPs over Stripes, or anything that adds complication.]
>>
>> If there's a web page describing the goals of 3.0, a reference would
>> be good. The JIRA roadmap isn't that helpful.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ichiro
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 12:31 AM, Florian Holeczek <fl...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > sooner or later we will have to decide on how to proceed with the 3.0
>> > efforts (available in the JSPWIKI_3_0_BRANCH).
>> > The discussion already started on a different thread (see below), but I
>> > think it's a good idea to explicitly continue it on a new thread.
>> >
>> > @Harry: I fully agree with your mail cited below.
>> > Though I wish it was different, I personally have little hope on reviving
>> > 3.0 without the help of Janne and Andrew, which seems unlikely at least
>> in
>> > the medium term.
>> >
>> > What do the others think, especially Janne and Andrew?
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > Florian
>> >
>> >
>> > -------- original message --------
>> > Subject: Re: [jira] [Commented] (JSPWIKI-713) Creating a page doesn't
>> work
>> > on 3.0
>> > Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 12:12:59 +0100
>> > From: Harry Metske <ha...@gmail.com>
>> > Reply to: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > To: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >
>> > Agree with that statement. But let's then decide what to do with 3.0
>> stuff.
>> > My main objection is that it is cluttering up our JIRA issue list, and it
>> > is misleading people.
>> >
>> > If anyone of us still has some hope on reviving 3.0 then I'm OK with
>> > leaving things as they are at the moment.
>> >
>> > regards,
>> > Harry
>> >
>>
Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
Posted by Andrew Jaquith <an...@gmail.com>.
>From the vantage point of someone who is inactive with the project, but
also the principal author of the Stripes MVC integration:
- Stripes had several goals, chiefly to (1) refactor the JSP scriptlet code
out of the JSPs and into proper JavaBeans ("ActionBeans" in Stripes
parlance)
- Simplify JSP markup and input validation (replace HTML form tags with
Stripes equivalents)
- Replace the "command pattern" extensions to WikiContext, introduced in
the 2.8 range, with something saner (the ActionBeans)
- Create a more solid back-end interface for managing JSON requests from
browsers
Almost all of the forms porting was done, plus or minus a few things. I was
pretty happy with how it turned out. There is some wickedly clever JSON
processing in there (via the Interceptor classes) that was barely tapped;
it would have radically simplified a lot of Dirk's code. Yes, Stripes is
another framework, but it's pretty lightweight; and much, much lighter than
Spring, for example. On the flip side, it's not in widespread use; indeed,
Spring has pretty much steamrollered over most of the other JEE frameworks,
even as lots of dev energy has left the Java world entirely.
One more thing about 3.0. I added in some pretty solid code for integrating
with LDAP and AD for authentication, group access controls, etc. This could
be re-used in the 2.9 codebase pretty easily, with a little light
refactoring.
Whether the team wishes to use the rest of 3.0 code (including Stripes) is,
of course, up to the team. If I can be a resource/mentor, let me know.
Andrew
On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 1:45 AM, Florian Holeczek <fl...@holeczek.de>wrote:
> Hi Ichiro,
>
> well, that's basically it - more than enough I'd say, since these two are
> really big points. You can have a look at www.jspwiki.org, there are some
> pages on 3.0, too.
>
> Regards
> Florian
>
>
> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail -----
> Von: "Ichiro Furusato" <ic...@gmail.com>
> An: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 9. Dezember 2012 23:53:08
> Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
>
> For those of us who've not followed the 3.0 progress (or lack thereof),
> could
> someone provide a very brief synopsis?
>
> My understanding is that the 2.8.x branch is fully functional and
> basically an
> update of the com.ecyrd.jspwiki code in Apache packaging, and that the 3.0
> branch was an attempt to rewrite the backend using Janne's JSR-170 subset,
> but that hasn't moved forward. I didn't know about any plans for Stripes.
> But
> this is all just a guess based on:
>
> A new effort is started to graduate with a 2.9 codebase (based on 2.8),
> so no JCR backend and no Stripes, but the traditional JSPWiki, the
> progress can still be followed at our JIRA issue tracker.
>
> [I'm frankly happy with the "traditional" 2.8/2.9 code base as it's
> compatible with a substantial number of extant projects and plugins.
> I'd prefer JSPs over Stripes, or anything that adds complication.]
>
> If there's a web page describing the goals of 3.0, a reference would
> be good. The JIRA roadmap isn't that helpful.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ichiro
>
> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 12:31 AM, Florian Holeczek <fl...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > sooner or later we will have to decide on how to proceed with the 3.0
> > efforts (available in the JSPWIKI_3_0_BRANCH).
> > The discussion already started on a different thread (see below), but I
> > think it's a good idea to explicitly continue it on a new thread.
> >
> > @Harry: I fully agree with your mail cited below.
> > Though I wish it was different, I personally have little hope on reviving
> > 3.0 without the help of Janne and Andrew, which seems unlikely at least
> in
> > the medium term.
> >
> > What do the others think, especially Janne and Andrew?
> >
> > Regards
> > Florian
> >
> >
> > -------- original message --------
> > Subject: Re: [jira] [Commented] (JSPWIKI-713) Creating a page doesn't
> work
> > on 3.0
> > Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 12:12:59 +0100
> > From: Harry Metske <ha...@gmail.com>
> > Reply to: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > To: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >
> > Agree with that statement. But let's then decide what to do with 3.0
> stuff.
> > My main objection is that it is cluttering up our JIRA issue list, and it
> > is misleading people.
> >
> > If anyone of us still has some hope on reviving 3.0 then I'm OK with
> > leaving things as they are at the moment.
> >
> > regards,
> > Harry
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
Posted by Florian Holeczek <fl...@holeczek.de>.
Hi Ichiro,
well, that's basically it - more than enough I'd say, since these two are really big points. You can have a look at www.jspwiki.org, there are some pages on 3.0, too.
Regards
Florian
----- Ursprüngliche Mail -----
Von: "Ichiro Furusato" <ic...@gmail.com>
An: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
Gesendet: Sonntag, 9. Dezember 2012 23:53:08
Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
For those of us who've not followed the 3.0 progress (or lack thereof), could
someone provide a very brief synopsis?
My understanding is that the 2.8.x branch is fully functional and basically an
update of the com.ecyrd.jspwiki code in Apache packaging, and that the 3.0
branch was an attempt to rewrite the backend using Janne's JSR-170 subset,
but that hasn't moved forward. I didn't know about any plans for Stripes. But
this is all just a guess based on:
A new effort is started to graduate with a 2.9 codebase (based on 2.8),
so no JCR backend and no Stripes, but the traditional JSPWiki, the
progress can still be followed at our JIRA issue tracker.
[I'm frankly happy with the "traditional" 2.8/2.9 code base as it's
compatible with a substantial number of extant projects and plugins.
I'd prefer JSPs over Stripes, or anything that adds complication.]
If there's a web page describing the goals of 3.0, a reference would
be good. The JIRA roadmap isn't that helpful.
Thanks,
Ichiro
On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 12:31 AM, Florian Holeczek <fl...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> sooner or later we will have to decide on how to proceed with the 3.0
> efforts (available in the JSPWIKI_3_0_BRANCH).
> The discussion already started on a different thread (see below), but I
> think it's a good idea to explicitly continue it on a new thread.
>
> @Harry: I fully agree with your mail cited below.
> Though I wish it was different, I personally have little hope on reviving
> 3.0 without the help of Janne and Andrew, which seems unlikely at least in
> the medium term.
>
> What do the others think, especially Janne and Andrew?
>
> Regards
> Florian
>
>
> -------- original message --------
> Subject: Re: [jira] [Commented] (JSPWIKI-713) Creating a page doesn't work
> on 3.0
> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 12:12:59 +0100
> From: Harry Metske <ha...@gmail.com>
> Reply to: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
> To: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
>
> Agree with that statement. But let's then decide what to do with 3.0 stuff.
> My main objection is that it is cluttering up our JIRA issue list, and it
> is misleading people.
>
> If anyone of us still has some hope on reviving 3.0 then I'm OK with
> leaving things as they are at the moment.
>
> regards,
> Harry
>
Re: [DISCUSS] How to proceed with the 3.0 efforts
Posted by Ichiro Furusato <ic...@gmail.com>.
For those of us who've not followed the 3.0 progress (or lack thereof), could
someone provide a very brief synopsis?
My understanding is that the 2.8.x branch is fully functional and basically an
update of the com.ecyrd.jspwiki code in Apache packaging, and that the 3.0
branch was an attempt to rewrite the backend using Janne's JSR-170 subset,
but that hasn't moved forward. I didn't know about any plans for Stripes. But
this is all just a guess based on:
A new effort is started to graduate with a 2.9 codebase (based on 2.8),
so no JCR backend and no Stripes, but the traditional JSPWiki, the
progress can still be followed at our JIRA issue tracker.
[I'm frankly happy with the "traditional" 2.8/2.9 code base as it's
compatible with a substantial number of extant projects and plugins.
I'd prefer JSPs over Stripes, or anything that adds complication.]
If there's a web page describing the goals of 3.0, a reference would
be good. The JIRA roadmap isn't that helpful.
Thanks,
Ichiro
On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 12:31 AM, Florian Holeczek <fl...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> sooner or later we will have to decide on how to proceed with the 3.0
> efforts (available in the JSPWIKI_3_0_BRANCH).
> The discussion already started on a different thread (see below), but I
> think it's a good idea to explicitly continue it on a new thread.
>
> @Harry: I fully agree with your mail cited below.
> Though I wish it was different, I personally have little hope on reviving
> 3.0 without the help of Janne and Andrew, which seems unlikely at least in
> the medium term.
>
> What do the others think, especially Janne and Andrew?
>
> Regards
> Florian
>
>
> -------- original message --------
> Subject: Re: [jira] [Commented] (JSPWIKI-713) Creating a page doesn't work
> on 3.0
> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 12:12:59 +0100
> From: Harry Metske <ha...@gmail.com>
> Reply to: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
> To: jspwiki-dev@incubator.apache.org
>
> Agree with that statement. But let's then decide what to do with 3.0 stuff.
> My main objection is that it is cluttering up our JIRA issue list, and it
> is misleading people.
>
> If anyone of us still has some hope on reviving 3.0 then I'm OK with
> leaving things as they are at the moment.
>
> regards,
> Harry
>