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Posted to dev@cordova.apache.org by Bryan Ellis <er...@apache.org> on 2020/01/28 14:59:01 UTC
[PROPOSAL] Drop Android 4.4 Support
I would like to open the discussion and vote to *drop Android 4.4 (KitKat)
support* in the upcoming next major release.
As of Dec 2019, Stat Counter reports that the *market share for Android 4.4
is only at 2.6%*.
Additionally, there is a report of *128 vulnerabilities in Android 4.4.4*.
As far as security updates for KitKat, there are none. The last release of
KitKat was 5 years and 2 months ago.
I think it is safe to say that deprecating Android 4.4 support is a good
move.
Lastly, IF the votes are more in favor of dropping, the next question would
be what version should be supported at minimum.
Looking back at the Stat Counter[1] , it shows:
* Android 5.0 (Lollipop) has 1.46% market share
* Android 5.1 (Lollipop) has 6.04% market share
Looking at the percentage, maybe we could decide on starting from version
5.1 at a minimum. (Android 5.0 + Android 4.4 = 4.06% that will not be
supported)
To sum up the proposal, I want to vote on:
* Drop Android 4.4
* Support Android 5.1 at minimum (Android >= 5.1 = 95.94% coverage)
*Reference Links*
*Stat Counter*
[1]
https://gs.statcounter.com/android-version-market-share/mobile-tablet/worldwide
*Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures Details*
[2]
https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-1224/product_id-19997/version_id-177951/Google-Android-4.4.4.html
Re: [PROPOSAL] Drop Android 4.4 Support
Posted by Jesse <pu...@gmail.com>.
+1 to drop everything before 5.1
> On Jan 28, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Chris Brody <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> +1 to drop Android 4.4 support
>
>> Do we have a reason for 5.1 instead of 5.0 other than the low usage?
>>
>> Originally, I was thinking 5.0+, but after seeing low usage, I leaned
>> over to 5.1. So low usage was my primary reasoning for my +1.
>
> +1 to drop 5.0 and +1 on the reasoning here
>
> I don't recall seeing a device running 5.0 for quite a few years. I
> recall seeing "Android 5" or "Android 5.0" devices actually running
> 5.1 or 5.1.1. (Unfortunately my memory is a bit hazy on this.)
>
> A side question is the how. Would we just set a higher
> minimumSdkVersion number (if I spelled it right) or do something else?
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Drop Android 4.4 Support
Posted by Chris Brody <ch...@gmail.com>.
I think we have consensus now to start dropping support for Android
4.4 & 5.0, minimum is now 5.1. Reasoning and explanations are clear to
me, seem to be clear to others. I think we would go through the normal
process on GitHub, which we know to be a major breaking change.
Switching the browser code to ES6 would be a separate discussion,
which I would be interested in as well.
Thanks!
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 12:02 PM Norman Breau <no...@normanbreau.com> wrote:
>
> I think ES6 is a legit concern. The only way I think we can use ES6
> features and *guarantee* there will work for all users is if we use a
> transpiler such as babel to convert es6 syntax to es3, or whatever the
> minimum we believe to be safe.
>
> So simply dropping 4.4 and 5.0 doesn't mean we can start converting the
> JS ran in the webview to es6.
>
> On 2020-01-28 12:27 p.m., julio cesar sanchez wrote:
> > I like the "we officially support SDK 22, SDK 21 might work", I'm +1 on SDK
> > 22 then
> >
> > But for ES6, I think that's a bigger problem.
> > Android 5+ is supposed to have the updatable webview, but that's not always
> > true, some vendors didn't implement it for some reason.
> > Also, even if implemented, users might not have the webview up to date.
> > And devs testing if their apps work on Android 5-6 will probably test on
> > emulators, which don't support ES6 and their webview can't be updated.
> >
> > And worst of all, there are no stats about that, so we can't know for sure
> > how many users will be affected by this.
> >
> >
> >
> > El mar., 28 ene. 2020 a las 17:14, Bryan Ellis (<er...@apache.org>)
> > escribió:
> >
> >> My primary view for dropping 5.0 was also based off of low usage.
> >>
> >> Obviously there will always be vulnerabilities. The CVE list showed a
> >> dropped from 5.0.0 to 5.0.2 but an increase again in 5.1. This, of course,
> >> will always be expected on minor and major releases.
> >>
> >> It was also known that 5.0 has a severe memory leak that users were
> >> experiencing and resolved in 5.1.
> >>
> >> We would set the minSdk higher but that does not mean users cant lower it
> >> to support 5.0, at their own risk. This value could be set in config.xml.
> >>
> >> What we would say could be along the lines of, it might work with 5.0 but
> >> we officially support is 5.1.
> >>
> >> Lastly, if we started to convert the browser code to ES6, for example, it
> >> will not work on Android 4.4. These are changes that would possibly come.
> >> We just have to think about the "updatable webview" when that time comes.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 12:53 AM Chris Brody <ch...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> +1 to drop Android 4.4 support
> >>>
> >>>> Do we have a reason for 5.1 instead of 5.0 other than the low usage?
> >>>>
> >>>> Originally, I was thinking 5.0+, but after seeing low usage, I leaned
> >>>> over to 5.1. So low usage was my primary reasoning for my +1.
> >>> +1 to drop 5.0 and +1 on the reasoning here
> >>>
> >>> I don't recall seeing a device running 5.0 for quite a few years. I
> >>> recall seeing "Android 5" or "Android 5.0" devices actually running
> >>> 5.1 or 5.1.1. (Unfortunately my memory is a bit hazy on this.)
> >>>
> >>> A side question is the how. Would we just set a higher
> >>> minimumSdkVersion number (if I spelled it right) or do something else?
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Drop Android 4.4 Support
Posted by Norman Breau <no...@normanbreau.com>.
I think ES6 is a legit concern. The only way I think we can use ES6
features and *guarantee* there will work for all users is if we use a
transpiler such as babel to convert es6 syntax to es3, or whatever the
minimum we believe to be safe.
So simply dropping 4.4 and 5.0 doesn't mean we can start converting the
JS ran in the webview to es6.
On 2020-01-28 12:27 p.m., julio cesar sanchez wrote:
> I like the "we officially support SDK 22, SDK 21 might work", I'm +1 on SDK
> 22 then
>
> But for ES6, I think that's a bigger problem.
> Android 5+ is supposed to have the updatable webview, but that's not always
> true, some vendors didn't implement it for some reason.
> Also, even if implemented, users might not have the webview up to date.
> And devs testing if their apps work on Android 5-6 will probably test on
> emulators, which don't support ES6 and their webview can't be updated.
>
> And worst of all, there are no stats about that, so we can't know for sure
> how many users will be affected by this.
>
>
>
> El mar., 28 ene. 2020 a las 17:14, Bryan Ellis (<er...@apache.org>)
> escribió:
>
>> My primary view for dropping 5.0 was also based off of low usage.
>>
>> Obviously there will always be vulnerabilities. The CVE list showed a
>> dropped from 5.0.0 to 5.0.2 but an increase again in 5.1. This, of course,
>> will always be expected on minor and major releases.
>>
>> It was also known that 5.0 has a severe memory leak that users were
>> experiencing and resolved in 5.1.
>>
>> We would set the minSdk higher but that does not mean users cant lower it
>> to support 5.0, at their own risk. This value could be set in config.xml.
>>
>> What we would say could be along the lines of, it might work with 5.0 but
>> we officially support is 5.1.
>>
>> Lastly, if we started to convert the browser code to ES6, for example, it
>> will not work on Android 4.4. These are changes that would possibly come.
>> We just have to think about the "updatable webview" when that time comes.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 12:53 AM Chris Brody <ch...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> +1 to drop Android 4.4 support
>>>
>>>> Do we have a reason for 5.1 instead of 5.0 other than the low usage?
>>>>
>>>> Originally, I was thinking 5.0+, but after seeing low usage, I leaned
>>>> over to 5.1. So low usage was my primary reasoning for my +1.
>>> +1 to drop 5.0 and +1 on the reasoning here
>>>
>>> I don't recall seeing a device running 5.0 for quite a few years. I
>>> recall seeing "Android 5" or "Android 5.0" devices actually running
>>> 5.1 or 5.1.1. (Unfortunately my memory is a bit hazy on this.)
>>>
>>> A side question is the how. Would we just set a higher
>>> minimumSdkVersion number (if I spelled it right) or do something else?
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
>>>
>>>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Drop Android 4.4 Support
Posted by Gearoid M <de...@gearoid.me>.
+1 on setting the minimum to 5.1
Personally, I always set the minimum for my own apps to 5.1 anyway as React doesn't work on 5.0 or below without polyfills
On Tue, 28 Jan 2020, at 16:27, julio cesar sanchez wrote:
> I like the "we officially support SDK 22, SDK 21 might work", I'm +1 on SDK
> 22 then
>
> But for ES6, I think that's a bigger problem.
> Android 5+ is supposed to have the updatable webview, but that's not always
> true, some vendors didn't implement it for some reason.
> Also, even if implemented, users might not have the webview up to date.
> And devs testing if their apps work on Android 5-6 will probably test on
> emulators, which don't support ES6 and their webview can't be updated.
>
> And worst of all, there are no stats about that, so we can't know for sure
> how many users will be affected by this.
>
>
>
> El mar., 28 ene. 2020 a las 17:14, Bryan Ellis (<er...@apache.org>)
> escribió:
>
> > My primary view for dropping 5.0 was also based off of low usage.
> >
> > Obviously there will always be vulnerabilities. The CVE list showed a
> > dropped from 5.0.0 to 5.0.2 but an increase again in 5.1. This, of course,
> > will always be expected on minor and major releases.
> >
> > It was also known that 5.0 has a severe memory leak that users were
> > experiencing and resolved in 5.1.
> >
> > We would set the minSdk higher but that does not mean users cant lower it
> > to support 5.0, at their own risk. This value could be set in config.xml.
> >
> > What we would say could be along the lines of, it might work with 5.0 but
> > we officially support is 5.1.
> >
> > Lastly, if we started to convert the browser code to ES6, for example, it
> > will not work on Android 4.4. These are changes that would possibly come.
> > We just have to think about the "updatable webview" when that time comes.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 12:53 AM Chris Brody <ch...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > +1 to drop Android 4.4 support
> > >
> > > > Do we have a reason for 5.1 instead of 5.0 other than the low usage?
> > > >
> > > > Originally, I was thinking 5.0+, but after seeing low usage, I leaned
> > > > over to 5.1. So low usage was my primary reasoning for my +1.
> > >
> > > +1 to drop 5.0 and +1 on the reasoning here
> > >
> > > I don't recall seeing a device running 5.0 for quite a few years. I
> > > recall seeing "Android 5" or "Android 5.0" devices actually running
> > > 5.1 or 5.1.1. (Unfortunately my memory is a bit hazy on this.)
> > >
> > > A side question is the how. Would we just set a higher
> > > minimumSdkVersion number (if I spelled it right) or do something else?
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Drop Android 4.4 Support
Posted by julio cesar sanchez <jc...@gmail.com>.
I like the "we officially support SDK 22, SDK 21 might work", I'm +1 on SDK
22 then
But for ES6, I think that's a bigger problem.
Android 5+ is supposed to have the updatable webview, but that's not always
true, some vendors didn't implement it for some reason.
Also, even if implemented, users might not have the webview up to date.
And devs testing if their apps work on Android 5-6 will probably test on
emulators, which don't support ES6 and their webview can't be updated.
And worst of all, there are no stats about that, so we can't know for sure
how many users will be affected by this.
El mar., 28 ene. 2020 a las 17:14, Bryan Ellis (<er...@apache.org>)
escribió:
> My primary view for dropping 5.0 was also based off of low usage.
>
> Obviously there will always be vulnerabilities. The CVE list showed a
> dropped from 5.0.0 to 5.0.2 but an increase again in 5.1. This, of course,
> will always be expected on minor and major releases.
>
> It was also known that 5.0 has a severe memory leak that users were
> experiencing and resolved in 5.1.
>
> We would set the minSdk higher but that does not mean users cant lower it
> to support 5.0, at their own risk. This value could be set in config.xml.
>
> What we would say could be along the lines of, it might work with 5.0 but
> we officially support is 5.1.
>
> Lastly, if we started to convert the browser code to ES6, for example, it
> will not work on Android 4.4. These are changes that would possibly come.
> We just have to think about the "updatable webview" when that time comes.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 12:53 AM Chris Brody <ch...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > +1 to drop Android 4.4 support
> >
> > > Do we have a reason for 5.1 instead of 5.0 other than the low usage?
> > >
> > > Originally, I was thinking 5.0+, but after seeing low usage, I leaned
> > > over to 5.1. So low usage was my primary reasoning for my +1.
> >
> > +1 to drop 5.0 and +1 on the reasoning here
> >
> > I don't recall seeing a device running 5.0 for quite a few years. I
> > recall seeing "Android 5" or "Android 5.0" devices actually running
> > 5.1 or 5.1.1. (Unfortunately my memory is a bit hazy on this.)
> >
> > A side question is the how. Would we just set a higher
> > minimumSdkVersion number (if I spelled it right) or do something else?
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] Drop Android 4.4 Support
Posted by Bryan Ellis <er...@apache.org>.
My primary view for dropping 5.0 was also based off of low usage.
Obviously there will always be vulnerabilities. The CVE list showed a
dropped from 5.0.0 to 5.0.2 but an increase again in 5.1. This, of course,
will always be expected on minor and major releases.
It was also known that 5.0 has a severe memory leak that users were
experiencing and resolved in 5.1.
We would set the minSdk higher but that does not mean users cant lower it
to support 5.0, at their own risk. This value could be set in config.xml.
What we would say could be along the lines of, it might work with 5.0 but
we officially support is 5.1.
Lastly, if we started to convert the browser code to ES6, for example, it
will not work on Android 4.4. These are changes that would possibly come.
We just have to think about the "updatable webview" when that time comes.
On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 12:53 AM Chris Brody <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 to drop Android 4.4 support
>
> > Do we have a reason for 5.1 instead of 5.0 other than the low usage?
> >
> > Originally, I was thinking 5.0+, but after seeing low usage, I leaned
> > over to 5.1. So low usage was my primary reasoning for my +1.
>
> +1 to drop 5.0 and +1 on the reasoning here
>
> I don't recall seeing a device running 5.0 for quite a few years. I
> recall seeing "Android 5" or "Android 5.0" devices actually running
> 5.1 or 5.1.1. (Unfortunately my memory is a bit hazy on this.)
>
> A side question is the how. Would we just set a higher
> minimumSdkVersion number (if I spelled it right) or do something else?
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] Drop Android 4.4 Support
Posted by Chris Brody <ch...@gmail.com>.
+1 to drop Android 4.4 support
> Do we have a reason for 5.1 instead of 5.0 other than the low usage?
>
> Originally, I was thinking 5.0+, but after seeing low usage, I leaned
> over to 5.1. So low usage was my primary reasoning for my +1.
+1 to drop 5.0 and +1 on the reasoning here
I don't recall seeing a device running 5.0 for quite a few years. I
recall seeing "Android 5" or "Android 5.0" devices actually running
5.1 or 5.1.1. (Unfortunately my memory is a bit hazy on this.)
A side question is the how. Would we just set a higher
minimumSdkVersion number (if I spelled it right) or do something else?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Drop Android 4.4 Support
Posted by Norman Breau <no...@normanbreau.com>.
Do we have a reason for 5.1 instead of 5.0 other than the low usage?
Originally, I was thinking 5.0+, but after seeing low usage, I leaned
over to 5.1. So low usage was my primary reasoning for my +1.
On 2020-01-28 11:32 a.m., julio cesar sanchez wrote:
> +1 for dropping Android 4.4 since it doesn't have updatable webview and
> it's a pain to maintain such old chromium version
>
> Do we have a reason for 5.1 instead of 5.0 other than the low usage?
>
>
>
> El mar., 28 ene. 2020 a las 16:13, Norman Breau (<no...@normanbreau.com>)
> escribió:
>
>> +1 to drop Android 4.4 - 5.0.
>> +1 to support Android >= 5.1
>>
>> On 2020-01-28 10:59 a.m., Bryan Ellis wrote:
>>> I would like to open the discussion and vote to *drop Android 4.4
>> (KitKat)
>>> support* in the upcoming next major release.
>>>
>>> As of Dec 2019, Stat Counter reports that the *market share for Android
>> 4.4
>>> is only at 2.6%*.
>>>
>>> Additionally, there is a report of *128 vulnerabilities in Android
>> 4.4.4*.
>>> As far as security updates for KitKat, there are none. The last release
>> of
>>> KitKat was 5 years and 2 months ago.
>>>
>>> I think it is safe to say that deprecating Android 4.4 support is a good
>>> move.
>>>
>>> Lastly, IF the votes are more in favor of dropping, the next question
>> would
>>> be what version should be supported at minimum.
>>>
>>> Looking back at the Stat Counter[1] , it shows:
>>> * Android 5.0 (Lollipop) has 1.46% market share
>>> * Android 5.1 (Lollipop) has 6.04% market share
>>>
>>> Looking at the percentage, maybe we could decide on starting from version
>>> 5.1 at a minimum. (Android 5.0 + Android 4.4 = 4.06% that will not be
>>> supported)
>>>
>>> To sum up the proposal, I want to vote on:
>>> * Drop Android 4.4
>>> * Support Android 5.1 at minimum (Android >= 5.1 = 95.94% coverage)
>>>
>>>
>>> *Reference Links*
>>> *Stat Counter*
>>> [1]
>>>
>> https://gs.statcounter.com/android-version-market-share/mobile-tablet/worldwide
>>> *Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures Details*
>>> [2]
>>>
>> https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-1224/product_id-19997/version_id-177951/Google-Android-4.4.4.html
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
>>
>>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Drop Android 4.4 Support
Posted by julio cesar sanchez <jc...@gmail.com>.
+1 for dropping Android 4.4 since it doesn't have updatable webview and
it's a pain to maintain such old chromium version
Do we have a reason for 5.1 instead of 5.0 other than the low usage?
El mar., 28 ene. 2020 a las 16:13, Norman Breau (<no...@normanbreau.com>)
escribió:
> +1 to drop Android 4.4 - 5.0.
> +1 to support Android >= 5.1
>
> On 2020-01-28 10:59 a.m., Bryan Ellis wrote:
> > I would like to open the discussion and vote to *drop Android 4.4
> (KitKat)
> > support* in the upcoming next major release.
> >
> > As of Dec 2019, Stat Counter reports that the *market share for Android
> 4.4
> > is only at 2.6%*.
> >
> > Additionally, there is a report of *128 vulnerabilities in Android
> 4.4.4*.
> > As far as security updates for KitKat, there are none. The last release
> of
> > KitKat was 5 years and 2 months ago.
> >
> > I think it is safe to say that deprecating Android 4.4 support is a good
> > move.
> >
> > Lastly, IF the votes are more in favor of dropping, the next question
> would
> > be what version should be supported at minimum.
> >
> > Looking back at the Stat Counter[1] , it shows:
> > * Android 5.0 (Lollipop) has 1.46% market share
> > * Android 5.1 (Lollipop) has 6.04% market share
> >
> > Looking at the percentage, maybe we could decide on starting from version
> > 5.1 at a minimum. (Android 5.0 + Android 4.4 = 4.06% that will not be
> > supported)
> >
> > To sum up the proposal, I want to vote on:
> > * Drop Android 4.4
> > * Support Android 5.1 at minimum (Android >= 5.1 = 95.94% coverage)
> >
> >
> > *Reference Links*
> > *Stat Counter*
> > [1]
> >
> https://gs.statcounter.com/android-version-market-share/mobile-tablet/worldwide
> > *Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures Details*
> > [2]
> >
> https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-1224/product_id-19997/version_id-177951/Google-Android-4.4.4.html
> >
>
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>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] Drop Android 4.4 Support
Posted by Norman Breau <no...@normanbreau.com>.
+1 to drop Android 4.4 - 5.0.
+1 to support Android >= 5.1
On 2020-01-28 10:59 a.m., Bryan Ellis wrote:
> I would like to open the discussion and vote to *drop Android 4.4 (KitKat)
> support* in the upcoming next major release.
>
> As of Dec 2019, Stat Counter reports that the *market share for Android 4.4
> is only at 2.6%*.
>
> Additionally, there is a report of *128 vulnerabilities in Android 4.4.4*.
> As far as security updates for KitKat, there are none. The last release of
> KitKat was 5 years and 2 months ago.
>
> I think it is safe to say that deprecating Android 4.4 support is a good
> move.
>
> Lastly, IF the votes are more in favor of dropping, the next question would
> be what version should be supported at minimum.
>
> Looking back at the Stat Counter[1] , it shows:
> * Android 5.0 (Lollipop) has 1.46% market share
> * Android 5.1 (Lollipop) has 6.04% market share
>
> Looking at the percentage, maybe we could decide on starting from version
> 5.1 at a minimum. (Android 5.0 + Android 4.4 = 4.06% that will not be
> supported)
>
> To sum up the proposal, I want to vote on:
> * Drop Android 4.4
> * Support Android 5.1 at minimum (Android >= 5.1 = 95.94% coverage)
>
>
> *Reference Links*
> *Stat Counter*
> [1]
> https://gs.statcounter.com/android-version-market-share/mobile-tablet/worldwide
> *Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures Details*
> [2]
> https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-1224/product_id-19997/version_id-177951/Google-Android-4.4.4.html
>
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