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Posted to dev@harmony.apache.org by Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> on 2005/11/08 11:49:40 UTC
Code contribution to harmony
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I'm delighted to be able to make a code contribution to the Harmony
project on behalf of IBM. The code comprises a concrete implementation
of the interface between virtual machine and class library that we have
been discussing recently, together with a set of core Java classes. The
aim is to ground the discussion in reality and provide an opportunity
for people to collaborate on enhancements and improvements to actual
code. The Java classes are a subset of Java SE 1.4.2 APIs sufficient to
run Ant and the Eclipse Java compiler, to provide a basic self-hosting
environment. Some of the types are simply stubs to enable full
recompilation of the Java code. The ZIP also includes HTML
documentation for the VM interface.
I've uploaded the contribution here:
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-14
The expected MD5 sums are:
73ade240df20dec481806130fc8b4875 *Harmony-contribution_Part-1-of-2.zip
bc9117d9b4af113eaf5250883d1ce669 *Harmony-contribution_Part-2-of-2.zip
A number of people were involved with getting the code ready for
contribution (too many to name individually!), and they have done a fine
job. There is still plently of work to do; for example, we renamed some
code to "Hy", but some still has a "com.ibm" prefix. The code needs
bringing up to the project goal of supporting 5.0 APIs. It is targeted
at Windows and Linux on Intel 32-bit machines. Now it is everyone's
code, join in!
In the meantime we are working on making a VM available for download
(under a binary evaluation license) from IBM's DeveloperWorks site that
implements the class library interface. By getting the VM and unzipping
into the same directory you can run the contributed code and try out
your changes.
I'll post the URL for the VM download (as soon as I know it) as a
follow-up to this mail -- it could take a couple of days to organize.
Just to avoid confusion, the DeveloperWorks VM not a regular IBM JRE.
It is a VM being made available to enable Harmony development and is
_not_ a contribution.
Regards,
Tim
- --
Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
IBM Java technology centre, UK.
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Re: Code contribution to harmony
Posted by Jean-frederic Clere <jf...@telefonica.net>.
George Harley1 wrote:
>Hi Jean-Frederic,
>
>It sounds like you do not have a compatible VM to run with (i.e. a VM that
>implements the proposed interface to the class libraries). As mentioned by
>Tim the other day you can obtain one from the IBM developerWorks site at
>http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/harmony
>
>If you unzip the archive from the above link into the same directory that
>you unzipped the code contribution to then the current problem should be
>sorted. Note that the VM is not part of the code contribution and is only
>available in binary form under an evaluation license.
>
>Hope this helps,
>
>
Yep, that helps, but I still have to upgrade my installation:
+++
jfclere@jfcexpert:~/harmony/Harmony> ./deploy/jre/bin/java -help
Failed to open JVM DLL:
/home/jfclere/harmony/Harmony/deploy/jre/bin/default/clearvm
(/lib/libpthread.so.0: version `GLIBC_2.3.2' not found (required by
/home/jfclere/harmony/Harmony/deploy/jre/bin/default/libj9thr23.so))
+++
>George
>
>
>
>
>
>Jean-frederic Clere <jf...@telefonica.net>
>09/11/2005 22:56
>Please respond to
>harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>
>
>To
>harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>cc
>
>Subject
>Re: Code contribution to harmony
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Tim Ellison wrote:
>
>
>
>>Jean-frederic Clere wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Note when doing ant I get the following:
>>>+++
>>>cc -fpic -DLINUX -D_REENTRANT -O1 -march=pentium3
>>>-DIPv6_FUNCTION_SUPPORT -DHYX86 -DHYPORT_LIBRARY_DEFINE
>>>-I../include -c -o hyvmem.o hyvmem.c
>>>hyvmem.c: In function `hyvmem_reserve_memory':
>>>hyvmem.c:311: `SHM_HUGETLB' undeclared (first use in this function)
>>>hyvmem.c:311: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
>>>hyvmem.c:311: for each function it appears in.)
>>>make[1]: Leaving directory
>>>`/home/jfclere/harmony/Harmony/native-src/linux.IA32/port'
>>>make[1]: *** [hyvmem.o] Error 1
>>>make: *** [_port] Error 2
>>>+++
>>>
>>>So the requirements on Linux are a 2.6.x kernel, aren't they?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>No, should work ok on 2.4 (e.g. RHEL3) What are you compiling on?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Suse 8.1:
>+++
>jfclere@jfcexpert:~/harmony/Harmony> more /etc/SuSE-release
>SuSE Linux 8.1 (i386)
>VERSION = 8.1
>+++
>I have added:
>#define SHM_HUGETLB 04000 /* segment will use huge TLB pages */
>in native-src/linux.IA32/port/hyvmem.c to work-round the problem.
>
>The next problem is:
>+++
>jfclere@jfcexpert:~/harmony/Harmony> ./deploy/jre/bin/java --help
>Failed to open JVM DLL:
>/home/jfclere/harmony/Harmony/deploy/jre/bin/default/clearvm
>(/home/jfclere/harmony/Harmony/deploy/jre/bin/default/libclearvm.so:
>cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)
>+++
>
>
>
>>The platforms we are using include:
>>- Red Hat EL3 Update 5
>>- Red Hat EL4 Update 1
>>- SLES 9 SP1
>>(on Pentium III, Pentium 4, and Pentium Xeon processors).
>>
>>Regards,
>>Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Cheers
>>>
>>>Jean-Frederic
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Posted by Jean-frederic Clere <jf...@telefonica.net>.
George Harley1 wrote:
>Hi Jean-Frederic,
>
>My understanding is that while huge TLB pages support was new in the 2.6
>kernel it was made available as a backport in the RHEL3 2.4 kernel. Not
>sure if this also made it into the 2.4 kernel for SuSE 8.1. Might be
>worthwhile checking the documentation for your distribution.
>
>
for info: huge TLB pages support has not (yet) been backported to the
2.4 kernels of www.kernel.org.
>Best regards,
>George
>
>
>
>
>
>George Harley1/UK/IBM@IBMGB
>09/11/2005 23:54
>Please respond to
>harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>
>
>To
>harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>cc
>
>Subject
>Re: Code contribution to harmony
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Hi Jean-Frederic,
>
>It sounds like you do not have a compatible VM to run with (i.e. a VM that
>
>implements the proposed interface to the class libraries). As mentioned by
>
>Tim the other day you can obtain one from the IBM developerWorks site at
>http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/harmony
>
>If you unzip the archive from the above link into the same directory that
>you unzipped the code contribution to then the current problem should be
>sorted. Note that the VM is not part of the code contribution and is only
>available in binary form under an evaluation license.
>
>Hope this helps,
>George
>
>
>
>
>
>Jean-frederic Clere <jf...@telefonica.net>
>09/11/2005 22:56
>Please respond to
>harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>
>
>To
>harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>cc
>
>Subject
>Re: Code contribution to harmony
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Tim Ellison wrote:
>
>
>
>>Jean-frederic Clere wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Note when doing ant I get the following:
>>>+++
>>>cc -fpic -DLINUX -D_REENTRANT -O1 -march=pentium3
>>>-DIPv6_FUNCTION_SUPPORT -DHYX86 -DHYPORT_LIBRARY_DEFINE
>>>-I../include -c -o hyvmem.o hyvmem.c
>>>hyvmem.c: In function `hyvmem_reserve_memory':
>>>hyvmem.c:311: `SHM_HUGETLB' undeclared (first use in this function)
>>>hyvmem.c:311: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
>>>hyvmem.c:311: for each function it appears in.)
>>>make[1]: Leaving directory
>>>`/home/jfclere/harmony/Harmony/native-src/linux.IA32/port'
>>>make[1]: *** [hyvmem.o] Error 1
>>>make: *** [_port] Error 2
>>>+++
>>>
>>>So the requirements on Linux are a 2.6.x kernel, aren't they?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>No, should work ok on 2.4 (e.g. RHEL3) What are you compiling on?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Suse 8.1:
>+++
>jfclere@jfcexpert:~/harmony/Harmony> more /etc/SuSE-release
>SuSE Linux 8.1 (i386)
>VERSION = 8.1
>+++
>I have added:
>#define SHM_HUGETLB 04000 /* segment will use huge TLB pages */
>in native-src/linux.IA32/port/hyvmem.c to work-round the problem.
>
>The next problem is:
>+++
>jfclere@jfcexpert:~/harmony/Harmony> ./deploy/jre/bin/java --help
>Failed to open JVM DLL:
>/home/jfclere/harmony/Harmony/deploy/jre/bin/default/clearvm
>(/home/jfclere/harmony/Harmony/deploy/jre/bin/default/libclearvm.so:
>cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)
>+++
>
>
>
>>The platforms we are using include:
>>- Red Hat EL3 Update 5
>>- Red Hat EL4 Update 1
>>- SLES 9 SP1
>>(on Pentium III, Pentium 4, and Pentium Xeon processors).
>>
>>Regards,
>>Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Cheers
>>>
>>>Jean-Frederic
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Posted by George Harley1 <GH...@uk.ibm.com>.
Hi Jean-Frederic,
My understanding is that while huge TLB pages support was new in the 2.6
kernel it was made available as a backport in the RHEL3 2.4 kernel. Not
sure if this also made it into the 2.4 kernel for SuSE 8.1. Might be
worthwhile checking the documentation for your distribution.
Best regards,
George
George Harley1/UK/IBM@IBMGB
09/11/2005 23:54
Please respond to
harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
To
harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
cc
Subject
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Hi Jean-Frederic,
It sounds like you do not have a compatible VM to run with (i.e. a VM that
implements the proposed interface to the class libraries). As mentioned by
Tim the other day you can obtain one from the IBM developerWorks site at
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/harmony
If you unzip the archive from the above link into the same directory that
you unzipped the code contribution to then the current problem should be
sorted. Note that the VM is not part of the code contribution and is only
available in binary form under an evaluation license.
Hope this helps,
George
Jean-frederic Clere <jf...@telefonica.net>
09/11/2005 22:56
Please respond to
harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
To
harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
cc
Subject
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Tim Ellison wrote:
>Jean-frederic Clere wrote:
>
>
>>Note when doing ant I get the following:
>>+++
>>cc -fpic -DLINUX -D_REENTRANT -O1 -march=pentium3
>>-DIPv6_FUNCTION_SUPPORT -DHYX86 -DHYPORT_LIBRARY_DEFINE
>>-I../include -c -o hyvmem.o hyvmem.c
>>hyvmem.c: In function `hyvmem_reserve_memory':
>>hyvmem.c:311: `SHM_HUGETLB' undeclared (first use in this function)
>>hyvmem.c:311: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
>>hyvmem.c:311: for each function it appears in.)
>>make[1]: Leaving directory
>>`/home/jfclere/harmony/Harmony/native-src/linux.IA32/port'
>>make[1]: *** [hyvmem.o] Error 1
>>make: *** [_port] Error 2
>>+++
>>
>>So the requirements on Linux are a 2.6.x kernel, aren't they?
>>
>>
>
>No, should work ok on 2.4 (e.g. RHEL3) What are you compiling on?
>
>
Suse 8.1:
+++
jfclere@jfcexpert:~/harmony/Harmony> more /etc/SuSE-release
SuSE Linux 8.1 (i386)
VERSION = 8.1
+++
I have added:
#define SHM_HUGETLB 04000 /* segment will use huge TLB pages */
in native-src/linux.IA32/port/hyvmem.c to work-round the problem.
The next problem is:
+++
jfclere@jfcexpert:~/harmony/Harmony> ./deploy/jre/bin/java --help
Failed to open JVM DLL:
/home/jfclere/harmony/Harmony/deploy/jre/bin/default/clearvm
(/home/jfclere/harmony/Harmony/deploy/jre/bin/default/libclearvm.so:
cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)
+++
>The platforms we are using include:
> - Red Hat EL3 Update 5
> - Red Hat EL4 Update 1
> - SLES 9 SP1
>(on Pentium III, Pentium 4, and Pentium Xeon processors).
>
>Regards,
>Tim
>
>
>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Jean-Frederic
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Posted by George Harley1 <GH...@uk.ibm.com>.
Hi Jean-Frederic,
It sounds like you do not have a compatible VM to run with (i.e. a VM that
implements the proposed interface to the class libraries). As mentioned by
Tim the other day you can obtain one from the IBM developerWorks site at
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/harmony
If you unzip the archive from the above link into the same directory that
you unzipped the code contribution to then the current problem should be
sorted. Note that the VM is not part of the code contribution and is only
available in binary form under an evaluation license.
Hope this helps,
George
Jean-frederic Clere <jf...@telefonica.net>
09/11/2005 22:56
Please respond to
harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
To
harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
cc
Subject
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Tim Ellison wrote:
>Jean-frederic Clere wrote:
>
>
>>Note when doing ant I get the following:
>>+++
>>cc -fpic -DLINUX -D_REENTRANT -O1 -march=pentium3
>>-DIPv6_FUNCTION_SUPPORT -DHYX86 -DHYPORT_LIBRARY_DEFINE
>>-I../include -c -o hyvmem.o hyvmem.c
>>hyvmem.c: In function `hyvmem_reserve_memory':
>>hyvmem.c:311: `SHM_HUGETLB' undeclared (first use in this function)
>>hyvmem.c:311: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
>>hyvmem.c:311: for each function it appears in.)
>>make[1]: Leaving directory
>>`/home/jfclere/harmony/Harmony/native-src/linux.IA32/port'
>>make[1]: *** [hyvmem.o] Error 1
>>make: *** [_port] Error 2
>>+++
>>
>>So the requirements on Linux are a 2.6.x kernel, aren't they?
>>
>>
>
>No, should work ok on 2.4 (e.g. RHEL3) What are you compiling on?
>
>
Suse 8.1:
+++
jfclere@jfcexpert:~/harmony/Harmony> more /etc/SuSE-release
SuSE Linux 8.1 (i386)
VERSION = 8.1
+++
I have added:
#define SHM_HUGETLB 04000 /* segment will use huge TLB pages */
in native-src/linux.IA32/port/hyvmem.c to work-round the problem.
The next problem is:
+++
jfclere@jfcexpert:~/harmony/Harmony> ./deploy/jre/bin/java --help
Failed to open JVM DLL:
/home/jfclere/harmony/Harmony/deploy/jre/bin/default/clearvm
(/home/jfclere/harmony/Harmony/deploy/jre/bin/default/libclearvm.so:
cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)
+++
>The platforms we are using include:
> - Red Hat EL3 Update 5
> - Red Hat EL4 Update 1
> - SLES 9 SP1
>(on Pentium III, Pentium 4, and Pentium Xeon processors).
>
>Regards,
>Tim
>
>
>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Jean-Frederic
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Posted by Jean-frederic Clere <jf...@telefonica.net>.
Tim Ellison wrote:
>Jean-frederic Clere wrote:
>
>
>>Note when doing ant I get the following:
>>+++
>>cc -fpic -DLINUX -D_REENTRANT -O1 -march=pentium3
>>-DIPv6_FUNCTION_SUPPORT -DHYX86 -DHYPORT_LIBRARY_DEFINE
>>-I../include -c -o hyvmem.o hyvmem.c
>>hyvmem.c: In function `hyvmem_reserve_memory':
>>hyvmem.c:311: `SHM_HUGETLB' undeclared (first use in this function)
>>hyvmem.c:311: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
>>hyvmem.c:311: for each function it appears in.)
>>make[1]: Leaving directory
>>`/home/jfclere/harmony/Harmony/native-src/linux.IA32/port'
>>make[1]: *** [hyvmem.o] Error 1
>>make: *** [_port] Error 2
>>+++
>>
>>So the requirements on Linux are a 2.6.x kernel, aren't they?
>>
>>
>
>No, should work ok on 2.4 (e.g. RHEL3) What are you compiling on?
>
>
Suse 8.1:
+++
jfclere@jfcexpert:~/harmony/Harmony> more /etc/SuSE-release
SuSE Linux 8.1 (i386)
VERSION = 8.1
+++
I have added:
#define SHM_HUGETLB 04000 /* segment will use huge TLB pages */
in native-src/linux.IA32/port/hyvmem.c to work-round the problem.
The next problem is:
+++
jfclere@jfcexpert:~/harmony/Harmony> ./deploy/jre/bin/java --help
Failed to open JVM DLL:
/home/jfclere/harmony/Harmony/deploy/jre/bin/default/clearvm
(/home/jfclere/harmony/Harmony/deploy/jre/bin/default/libclearvm.so:
cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)
+++
>The platforms we are using include:
> - Red Hat EL3 Update 5
> - Red Hat EL4 Update 1
> - SLES 9 SP1
>(on Pentium III, Pentium 4, and Pentium Xeon processors).
>
>Regards,
>Tim
>
>
>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Jean-Frederic
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Posted by Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>.
Jean-frederic Clere wrote:
> Note when doing ant I get the following:
> +++
> cc -fpic -DLINUX -D_REENTRANT -O1 -march=pentium3
> -DIPv6_FUNCTION_SUPPORT -DHYX86 -DHYPORT_LIBRARY_DEFINE
> -I../include -c -o hyvmem.o hyvmem.c
> hyvmem.c: In function `hyvmem_reserve_memory':
> hyvmem.c:311: `SHM_HUGETLB' undeclared (first use in this function)
> hyvmem.c:311: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
> hyvmem.c:311: for each function it appears in.)
> make[1]: Leaving directory
> `/home/jfclere/harmony/Harmony/native-src/linux.IA32/port'
> make[1]: *** [hyvmem.o] Error 1
> make: *** [_port] Error 2
> +++
>
> So the requirements on Linux are a 2.6.x kernel, aren't they?
No, should work ok on 2.4 (e.g. RHEL3) What are you compiling on?
The platforms we are using include:
- Red Hat EL3 Update 5
- Red Hat EL4 Update 1
- SLES 9 SP1
(on Pentium III, Pentium 4, and Pentium Xeon processors).
Regards,
Tim
> Cheers
>
> Jean-Frederic
>
>
--
Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
IBM Java technology centre, UK.
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Posted by Jean-frederic Clere <jf...@telefonica.net>.
Note when doing ant I get the following:
+++
cc -fpic -DLINUX -D_REENTRANT -O1 -march=pentium3
-DIPv6_FUNCTION_SUPPORT -DHYX86 -DHYPORT_LIBRARY_DEFINE
-I../include -c -o hyvmem.o hyvmem.c
hyvmem.c: In function `hyvmem_reserve_memory':
hyvmem.c:311: `SHM_HUGETLB' undeclared (first use in this function)
hyvmem.c:311: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
hyvmem.c:311: for each function it appears in.)
make[1]: Leaving directory
`/home/jfclere/harmony/Harmony/native-src/linux.IA32/port'
make[1]: *** [hyvmem.o] Error 1
make: *** [_port] Error 2
+++
So the requirements on Linux are a 2.6.x kernel, aren't they?
Cheers
Jean-Frederic
Re: Waiting for license resolutions (was: Re: Code contribution to
harmony)
Posted by Mark Wielaard <ma...@klomp.org>.
Hi Tim,
On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 23:32 +0000, Tim Ellison wrote:
> Mark Wielaard wrote:
> > I believe people are really reluctant to hack on the [new] code
> > while there is a legal limbo whether it can be included into the
> > other code bases out there
>
> I hope that I've misunderstood your comments Mark, because it would of
> course be wrong for people to suspend development on FSF and ASF java
> implementations -- jchevm, bootJVM, classpath, kaffe, etc. while
> awaiting a resolution of the 'legal limbo'.
Of course. (I added the word new to clarify.) What I meant was that
people are really reluctant to make efforts collaborating while there is
a legal limbo whether the resulting code can be mixed and matched with
their existing projects. Since currently this new code is only available
under the ASLv2 there is nothing much to do then wait for a resolution
that makes the code available under terms that are usable to the
existing projects that value being GPL-compatible. I am hopeful however
that might happen soon. But I know there are a lot of people skeptical
so we have to show them that this is really what we want. There is
enough to do on GNU Classpath and the other projects so don't worry
about suspending development while making the license resolutions
happen. But clearly it would be nicer if the legal limbo was resolved
and we could actually integrate and merge the code.
> > and whether it is meant as a project to enhance all the existing
> > projects or just another project on the side. So I see resolving this
> > issues as a high priority.
>
> I wasn't involved in writing the Harmony project proposal, but it seems
> to be quite clearly targeting a java implementation and not a generic
> license compatibility project. I suggest that a java-only resolution
> would be sub-optimal anyway.
Right. Geir has made apologies for the original announcement so lets not
go there again. You can read all about it in the mailinglist archives
and the blogs around that time if you are really interested. Clearly
several people wouldn't have signed the original proposal if the main
goal wasn't collaboration and trying to resolve any (perceived legal)
barriers for cooperation and reusing as much common code as possible.
But we did sign it because we agreed to work on harmony between the
communities. The poorly worded announcement didn't make that very clear.
But we unfortunately didn't have any say in that because it was never
sent for review.
> However, I have no influence in the FSF or ASF :-) so I'll refrain from
> further debate, like others on the list who are clearly smarter than me!
Of course you have influence! And I haven't seen anybody on this list
smarter then you. Just give your opinion on how this issue should be
solved. There have been several proposals on the list. Most people seem
to favor asking all contributors to make sure that code is available
under terms that are both ASL and GPL compatible. Maybe you have an
opinion on that. Then you could say so. Or maybe being the originator of
the patch, as in IBM, you could just make an example of how you think it
should be done and make the contribution (also) available under terms
that are acceptable to all parties involved. We are all peers and your
actions and opinions shape those of the group as a whole.
Cheers,
Mark
--
Escape the Java Trap with GNU Classpath!
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html
Join the community at http://planet.classpath.org/
Waiting for license resolutions (was: Re: Code contribution to harmony)
Posted by Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>.
Mark Wielaard wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-11-09 at 16:56 +0000, Tim Ellison wrote:
><snip>
>>I agree that getting a resolution to the community/licensing differences
>>would be fantastic. I don't see that happening quickly, and I don't
>>want to see the success or failure of a development project gated upon
>>it. IMHO resolving license issues is a board-level objective, not a
>>J2SE-project objective. We can hack code and live in hope :-)
>
>
> I believe people are really reluctant to hack on the code while there is
> a legal limbo whether it can be included into the other code bases out
> there
I hope that I've misunderstood your comments Mark, because it would of
course be wrong for people to suspend development on FSF and ASF java
implementations -- jchevm, bootJVM, classpath, kaffe, etc. while
awaiting a resolution of the 'legal limbo'.
> and whether it is meant as a project to enhance all the existing
> projects or just another project on the side. So I see resolving this
> issues as a high priority.
I wasn't involved in writing the Harmony project proposal, but it seems
to be quite clearly targeting a java implementation and not a generic
license compatibility project. I suggest that a java-only resolution
would be sub-optimal anyway.
However, I have no influence in the FSF or ASF :-) so I'll refrain from
further debate, like others on the list who are clearly smarter than me!
Regards,
Tim
--
Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
IBM Java technology centre, UK.
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@apache.org>.
On Nov 12, 2005, at 10:24 AM, Mark Wielaard wrote:
> Hi Tim,
>
> On Wed, 2005-11-09 at 16:56 +0000, Tim Ellison wrote:
>
>> I agree that getting a resolution to the community/licensing
>> differences
>> would be fantastic. I don't see that happening quickly, and I don't
>> want to see the success or failure of a development project gated
>> upon
>> it. IMHO resolving license issues is a board-level objective, not a
>> J2SE-project objective. We can hack code and live in hope :-)
>
> I believe people are really reluctant to hack on the code while
> there is
> a legal limbo whether it can be included into the other code bases out
> there and whether it is meant as a project to enhance all the existing
> projects or just another project on the side. So I see resolving this
> issues as a high priority.
Well, I understand the issue about not wanted to work on the code
here, but isn't the VM interface interesting to you?
geir
--
Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
geirm@apache.org
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Posted by Mark Wielaard <ma...@klomp.org>.
Hi Tim,
On Wed, 2005-11-09 at 16:56 +0000, Tim Ellison wrote:
> Mark Wielaard wrote:
> > Right! I have been thinking on how to move forward with this. And I am
> > excited to see some core class library code since that is where my
> > expertise is. Obviously we should be able to extend this easily with
> > parts of the GNU Classpath library like awt, beans, corba, crypto,
> > swing, sql, most of javax, imageio, naming, etc and the 1.5 additions we
> > have plus the generic classes from the classpath-generics branch.
>
> Great. That will be a good opportunity to work together on a class
> library componentization story too!
I am glad you see opportunities here. Note that there have been people
doing such a combination of the old OTI libraries with GNU Classpath
already inside IBM. They even wrote a nice paper about it that might be
worth a read: http://www.research.ibm.com/journal/sj/442/alpern.pdf
> I agree that getting a resolution to the community/licensing differences
> would be fantastic. I don't see that happening quickly, and I don't
> want to see the success or failure of a development project gated upon
> it. IMHO resolving license issues is a board-level objective, not a
> J2SE-project objective. We can hack code and live in hope :-)
I believe people are really reluctant to hack on the code while there is
a legal limbo whether it can be included into the other code bases out
there and whether it is meant as a project to enhance all the existing
projects or just another project on the side. So I see resolving this
issues as a high priority.
Cheers,
Mark
--
Escape the Java Trap with GNU Classpath!
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html
Join the community at http://planet.classpath.org/
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Posted by Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>.
Mark Wielaard wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Tue, 2005-11-08 at 16:13 +0000, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>
>>Tim Ellison wrote:
>>
>>>I'm delighted to be able to make a code contribution to the Harmony
>>>project on behalf of IBM.
>>
>>Let's the harmonization process begin :-)
>
>
> Right! I have been thinking on how to move forward with this. And I am
> excited to see some core class library code since that is where my
> expertise is. Obviously we should be able to extend this easily with
> parts of the GNU Classpath library like awt, beans, corba, crypto,
> swing, sql, most of javax, imageio, naming, etc and the 1.5 additions we
> have plus the generic classes from the classpath-generics branch.
Great. That will be a good opportunity to work together on a class
library componentization story too!
> At the
> same time we can merge the kernel classes to get the best of both
> implementations. But it seems we still have the original roadblock to
> harmony cooperation, the incompatible licenses. Since this contribution
> is marked as ASLv2 which is incompatible with GPLv2 so we won't be able
> to share this easily. So lets try to get that away now.
>
> Would IBM be willing to assign this code to the FSF for inclusion in GNU
> Classpath or contribute it under a GPL-compatible license like MIT/X,
> W3C, etc. so that it can be mixed and merged with the GNU Classpath core
> library and used in larger GPL-compatible works like gcj, kaffe, etc?
I agree that getting a resolution to the community/licensing differences
would be fantastic. I don't see that happening quickly, and I don't
want to see the success or failure of a development project gated upon
it. IMHO resolving license issues is a board-level objective, not a
J2SE-project objective. We can hack code and live in hope :-)
> That would be really fun. I remember when I joined the GNU Classpath
> group and we merged the libgcj and classpath code bases. That was really
> a good way to lift up both projects since you can compare ideas and code
> to create something that is bigger then the original things. And you
> will always learn things from trying to merge two similar but slightly
> different code bases. I am looking forward to going through each of the
> core packages to see which implementation is best if we can get the this
> license issue out of the way.
I think we should actively seek out opportunities for collaboration.
There is every reason to ensure that we don't end up with gratuitious
architectural differences that prevent users combining code from GNU
Classpath and Harmony. If it turns out that interoperability requires
releasing some subset of code under a different license then that is a
discussion to be had between the projects (independently of which way
the code is flowing). I don't think that point has come.
Regards,
Tim
--
Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
IBM Java technology centre, UK.
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Posted by Mark Wielaard <ma...@klomp.org>.
Hi Geir,
On Wed, 2005-11-09 at 11:27 -0500, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> On Nov 9, 2005, at 10:37 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> > On Nov 9, 2005, at 6:17 AM, Mark Wielaard wrote:
> >>
> >> Would IBM be willing to assign this code to the FSF for inclusion
> >> in GNU Classpath or contribute it under a GPL-compatible license like
> >> MIT/X, W3C, etc. so that it can be mixed and merged with the GNU
> >> Classpath core library and used in larger GPL-compatible works like
> >> gcj, kaffe, etc?
>
> > Mark, speaking with my IBM hat on, I will say that as I promised
> > yesterday to you, I'll certainly get a discussion started inside
> > IBM, but can't answer this now.
> >
> > Also, please understand that sometimes things can move very slowly.
>
> I'd like to re-clarify my statement as I don't wish to create any
> false expectations or misinterpretations. What I was trying to say :
>
> "I'm simply going to communicate this question inside
> IBM, and can promise no answer - we will go forward
> with what we have now under the terms we have now"
>
> IBM's contribution was made only under the Apache License, and there
> are no plans for doing anything else with respect to a change or
> addition in licensing.
OK, I can wait for a resolution. We have been going over this for the
last 7 months, so I don't expect an immediate change. But it would be
nice to finally move forward on this. I assume you did discuss this
internally already since this has often been suggested on the list and
you have said yourself that you encourage people to make their
contributions (also) available under GPL-compatible terms. We should
make it much more clear that this is an important project goal to make
cooperation between all the different projects go smoother.
Cheers,
Mark
--
Escape the Java Trap with GNU Classpath!
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html
Join the community at http://planet.classpath.org/
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@apache.org>.
On Nov 9, 2005, at 10:37 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
> On Nov 9, 2005, at 6:17 AM, Mark Wielaard wrote:
>
>>
>> Would IBM be willing to assign this code to the FSF for inclusion
>> in GNU
>> Classpath or contribute it under a GPL-compatible license like MIT/X,
>> W3C, etc. so that it can be mixed and merged with the GNU
>> Classpath core
>> library and used in larger GPL-compatible works like gcj, kaffe, etc?
> Mark, speaking with my IBM hat on, I will say that as I promised
> yesterday to you, I'll certainly get a discussion started inside
> IBM, but can't answer this now.
>
> Also, please understand that sometimes things can move very slowly.
I'd like to re-clarify my statement as I don't wish to create any
false expectations or misinterpretations. What I was trying to say :
"I'm simply going to communicate this question inside
IBM, and can promise no answer - we will go forward
with what we have now under the terms we have now"
IBM's contribution was made only under the Apache License, and there
are no plans for doing anything else with respect to a change or
addition in licensing.
geir
--
Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
geirm@apache.org
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@apache.org>.
On Nov 9, 2005, at 10:37 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
> On Nov 9, 2005, at 6:17 AM, Mark Wielaard wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Tue, 2005-11-08 at 16:13 +0000, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>>> Tim Ellison wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm delighted to be able to make a code contribution to the Harmony
>>>> project on behalf of IBM.
>>>
>>> Let's the harmonization process begin :-)
>>
>> Right! I have been thinking on how to move forward with this. And
>> I am
>> excited to see some core class library code since that is where my
>> expertise is. Obviously we should be able to extend this easily with
>> parts of the GNU Classpath library like awt, beans, corba, crypto,
>> swing, sql, most of javax, imageio, naming, etc and the 1.5
>> additions we
>> have plus the generic classes from the classpath-generics branch.
>> At the
>> same time we can merge the kernel classes to get the best of both
>> implementations. But it seems we still have the original roadblock to
>> harmony cooperation, the incompatible licenses. Since this
>> contribution
>> is marked as ASLv2 which is incompatible with GPLv2 so we won't be
>> able
>> to share this easily. So lets try to get that away now.
>>
>> Would IBM be willing to assign this code to the FSF for inclusion
>> in GNU
>> Classpath or contribute it under a GPL-compatible license like MIT/X,
>> W3C, etc. so that it can be mixed and merged with the GNU
>> Classpath core
>> library and used in larger GPL-compatible works like gcj, kaffe, etc?
>
> Mark, speaking with my IBM hat on, I will say that as I promised
> yesterday to you, I'll certainly get a discussion started inside
> IBM, but can't answer this now.
>
> Also, please understand that sometimes things can move very slowly.
And to really put a fine point on this, I work for IBM, work in
things like this for IBM, represent our community interests inside
IBM and IBMs interests here (to some degree), but I don't speak for
or represent IBM in general, or on this matter specifically.
geir
>
> geir
>
>>
>> That would be really fun. I remember when I joined the GNU Classpath
>> group and we merged the libgcj and classpath code bases. That was
>> really
>> a good way to lift up both projects since you can compare ideas
>> and code
>> to create something that is bigger then the original things. And you
>> will always learn things from trying to merge two similar but
>> slightly
>> different code bases. I am looking forward to going through each
>> of the
>> core packages to see which implementation is best if we can get
>> the this
>> license issue out of the way.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> --
>> Escape the Java Trap with GNU Classpath!
>> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html
>>
>> Join the community at http://planet.classpath.org/
>
> --
> Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
> geirm@apache.org
>
>
--
Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
geirm@apache.org
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@apache.org>.
On Nov 9, 2005, at 6:17 AM, Mark Wielaard wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Tue, 2005-11-08 at 16:13 +0000, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>> Tim Ellison wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm delighted to be able to make a code contribution to the Harmony
>>> project on behalf of IBM.
>>
>> Let's the harmonization process begin :-)
>
> Right! I have been thinking on how to move forward with this. And I am
> excited to see some core class library code since that is where my
> expertise is. Obviously we should be able to extend this easily with
> parts of the GNU Classpath library like awt, beans, corba, crypto,
> swing, sql, most of javax, imageio, naming, etc and the 1.5
> additions we
> have plus the generic classes from the classpath-generics branch.
> At the
> same time we can merge the kernel classes to get the best of both
> implementations. But it seems we still have the original roadblock to
> harmony cooperation, the incompatible licenses. Since this
> contribution
> is marked as ASLv2 which is incompatible with GPLv2 so we won't be
> able
> to share this easily. So lets try to get that away now.
>
> Would IBM be willing to assign this code to the FSF for inclusion
> in GNU
> Classpath or contribute it under a GPL-compatible license like MIT/X,
> W3C, etc. so that it can be mixed and merged with the GNU Classpath
> core
> library and used in larger GPL-compatible works like gcj, kaffe, etc?
Mark, speaking with my IBM hat on, I will say that as I promised
yesterday to you, I'll certainly get a discussion started inside IBM,
but can't answer this now.
Also, please understand that sometimes things can move very slowly.
geir
>
> That would be really fun. I remember when I joined the GNU Classpath
> group and we merged the libgcj and classpath code bases. That was
> really
> a good way to lift up both projects since you can compare ideas and
> code
> to create something that is bigger then the original things. And you
> will always learn things from trying to merge two similar but slightly
> different code bases. I am looking forward to going through each of
> the
> core packages to see which implementation is best if we can get the
> this
> license issue out of the way.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mark
>
> --
> Escape the Java Trap with GNU Classpath!
> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html
>
> Join the community at http://planet.classpath.org/
--
Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
geirm@apache.org
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Posted by Mark Wielaard <ma...@klomp.org>.
Hi,
On Tue, 2005-11-08 at 16:13 +0000, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> Tim Ellison wrote:
> >
> > I'm delighted to be able to make a code contribution to the Harmony
> > project on behalf of IBM.
>
> Let's the harmonization process begin :-)
Right! I have been thinking on how to move forward with this. And I am
excited to see some core class library code since that is where my
expertise is. Obviously we should be able to extend this easily with
parts of the GNU Classpath library like awt, beans, corba, crypto,
swing, sql, most of javax, imageio, naming, etc and the 1.5 additions we
have plus the generic classes from the classpath-generics branch. At the
same time we can merge the kernel classes to get the best of both
implementations. But it seems we still have the original roadblock to
harmony cooperation, the incompatible licenses. Since this contribution
is marked as ASLv2 which is incompatible with GPLv2 so we won't be able
to share this easily. So lets try to get that away now.
Would IBM be willing to assign this code to the FSF for inclusion in GNU
Classpath or contribute it under a GPL-compatible license like MIT/X,
W3C, etc. so that it can be mixed and merged with the GNU Classpath core
library and used in larger GPL-compatible works like gcj, kaffe, etc?
That would be really fun. I remember when I joined the GNU Classpath
group and we merged the libgcj and classpath code bases. That was really
a good way to lift up both projects since you can compare ideas and code
to create something that is bigger then the original things. And you
will always learn things from trying to merge two similar but slightly
different code bases. I am looking forward to going through each of the
core packages to see which implementation is best if we can get the this
license issue out of the way.
Cheers,
Mark
--
Escape the Java Trap with GNU Classpath!
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html
Join the community at http://planet.classpath.org/
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Tim Ellison wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> I'm delighted to be able to make a code contribution to the Harmony
> project on behalf of IBM.
Right on :-)
Let's the harmonization process begin :-)
--
Stefano.
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
AWESOME!! thanks guys.
-- dims
On 11/8/05, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tim Ellison wrote:
> > I'll post the URL for the VM download (as soon as I know it) as a
> > follow-up to this mail -- it could take a couple of days to organize.
>
> Hey, the DeveloperWorks download is available now:
> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/harmony
>
>
> Any questions just shout.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
>
> --
>
> Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
> IBM Java technology centre, UK.
>
--
Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Posted by Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>.
Tim Ellison wrote:
> I'll post the URL for the VM download (as soon as I know it) as a
> follow-up to this mail -- it could take a couple of days to organize.
Hey, the DeveloperWorks download is available now:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/harmony
Any questions just shout.
Regards,
Tim
--
Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
IBM Java technology centre, UK.
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Posted by Dalibor Topic <ro...@kaffe.org>.
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> Thanks Tim!
>
> 4) To that end, I can think of a few things we can do to get started :
>
> a) Get our own current crop of VMs working with it - bootVM and jcheVM.
>
And I am hoping a lot to see a combination of both emerge ...
> b) Help to get Kaffe working with the library interface - see what it
> takes to get Kaffe to support this interface as well (if they want), so
> we have a more mature free VM that supports the interface.
>
> c) Help to get GNU Classpath supporting the interface (if they want)
> so that GNU Classpath can run on the evaluation VM.
+1 to all of the above. The fun's just starting.
> On Nov 8, 2005, at 5:49 AM, Tim Ellison wrote:
>
> I'm delighted to be able to make a code contribution to the Harmony
> project on behalf of IBM. The code comprises a concrete implementation
> of the interface between virtual machine and class library that we have
> been discussing recently, together with a set of core Java classes. The
> aim is to ground the discussion in reality and provide an opportunity
> for people to collaborate on enhancements and improvements to actual
> code. The Java classes are a subset of Java SE 1.4.2 APIs sufficient to
> run Ant and the Eclipse Java compiler, to provide a basic self-hosting
> environment. Some of the types are simply stubs to enable full
> recompilation of the Java code. The ZIP also includes HTML
> documentation for the VM interface.
Awesome, thanks Tim & team.
cheers,
dalibor topic
Re: Code contribution to harmony
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@apache.org>.
Thanks Tim!
A few comments, wearing my Apache hat of course (n.b I am an IBM
employee as well).
0) We need to go through the bulk contribution process for this
donation (of course). I have an outstanding to-do on that, which is
to wrap up the bulk contrib rules. I have a proposal that I'll bring
to the dev list later today. Many of the following statements are
made with the assumption that we will work through this process
successfully, and the project will vote to accept this contribution.
1) This is our most significant donation we have received to date (in
terms of maturity and size, I think) and I encourage everyone to
start to play with it. I think of Harmony as a big freight train and
with this contribution builds on the contributions of Dan, Archie,
David, and all the others and the train is starting to move. The
nice thing about a lot of mass is that even small velocities result
in very large momentum :)
2) Combined with the VM that IBM is making available _for
evaluation_, there is a very low barrier to entry to get people up
and working with this. Tim and his team have gone to great pains to
make this easy to evaluate and use (only to be foiled at the end by
our 10MB upload limit on JIRA, hence the two zip files...) so I
encourage everyone to take some time to play, inspect and of course,
ask questions.
3) I want to emphasize that IBM is making their VM available to help
us evaluate and develop this further until we get our own open source
VM underneath it. The VM (for which a link will be posted later) is
not being contributed to the project, or licensed for any other
use. It is proprietary software under a proprietary license. It is
useful to us because it supports the VM/classlibrary interface that
the IBM donation implements, so we can start evaluation and testing
immediately.
4) To that end, I can think of a few things we can do to get started :
a) Get our own current crop of VMs working with it - bootVM and
jcheVM.
b) Help to get Kaffe working with the library interface - see what
it takes to get Kaffe to support this interface as well (if they
want), so we have a more mature free VM that supports the interface.
c) Help to get GNU Classpath supporting the interface (if they
want) so that GNU Classpath can run on the evaluation VM.
The point here is to continue to focus on our cross-project
interoperability and modularity interests, with this important
interface as a starting point. The other benefit of this is that we
can start gump-ing this stuff ASAP :)
I'm sure I'll have things I want to add once I hit "send"...
Yay!
geir
On Nov 8, 2005, at 5:49 AM, Tim Ellison wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> I'm delighted to be able to make a code contribution to the Harmony
> project on behalf of IBM. The code comprises a concrete
> implementation
> of the interface between virtual machine and class library that we
> have
> been discussing recently, together with a set of core Java
> classes. The
> aim is to ground the discussion in reality and provide an opportunity
> for people to collaborate on enhancements and improvements to actual
> code. The Java classes are a subset of Java SE 1.4.2 APIs
> sufficient to
> run Ant and the Eclipse Java compiler, to provide a basic self-hosting
> environment. Some of the types are simply stubs to enable full
> recompilation of the Java code. The ZIP also includes HTML
> documentation for the VM interface.
>
> I've uploaded the contribution here:
> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-14
>
> The expected MD5 sums are:
> 73ade240df20dec481806130fc8b4875 *Harmony-contribution_Part-1-of-2.zip
> bc9117d9b4af113eaf5250883d1ce669 *Harmony-contribution_Part-2-of-2.zip
>
>
> A number of people were involved with getting the code ready for
> contribution (too many to name individually!), and they have done a
> fine
> job. There is still plently of work to do; for example, we renamed
> some
> code to "Hy", but some still has a "com.ibm" prefix. The code needs
> bringing up to the project goal of supporting 5.0 APIs. It is
> targeted
> at Windows and Linux on Intel 32-bit machines. Now it is everyone's
> code, join in!
>
> In the meantime we are working on making a VM available for download
> (under a binary evaluation license) from IBM's DeveloperWorks site
> that
> implements the class library interface. By getting the VM and
> unzipping
> into the same directory you can run the contributed code and try out
> your changes.
>
> I'll post the URL for the VM download (as soon as I know it) as a
> follow-up to this mail -- it could take a couple of days to organize.
>
> Just to avoid confusion, the DeveloperWorks VM not a regular IBM JRE.
> It is a VM being made available to enable Harmony development and is
> _not_ a contribution.
>
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
> - --
>
> Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
> IBM Java technology centre, UK.
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>
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> =E8W4
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
--
Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437
geirm@apache.org