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Posted to users@tomcat.apache.org by Bjørn T Johansen <bt...@havleik.no> on 2004/09/20 01:31:52 UTC
Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They are only using
the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA.
So I was just wondering, is it worth it? Or is Tomcat as good as WL or maybe better? Does
WL have features that is missing in Tomcat? When the time comes to use EJB, is JBoss as
good as/better than WL?
So basically, I would like some advice on why I should/shouldn't continue with Weblogic? :)
Regards,
BTJ
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bjørn T Johansen
btj@havleik.no
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Someone wrote:
"I understand that if you play a Windows CD backwards you hear strange Satanic messages"
To which someone replied:
"It's even worse than that; play it forwards and it installs Windows"
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Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
Posted by Tim Funk <fu...@joedog.org>.
If you are only using a servlet/jsp container. Ditch weblogic right now. Look
at resin, servletexec, jetty, or any other (much cheaper) servlet container.
I had a bad experience with weblogic:
- I would provide bugs with cases to them and their support would take
forever to understand the issue.
- Their compliance to the servlet and JSP spec is comparable to Microsoft's
IE. (Just because it looks right and runs right - doesn't mean compliance)
- Converting to tomcat was an undertaking because the site originally coded
by a consulting firm which knew buzzwords, but not coding.
- We had massive stability issues with the site. (It was as stable as a 4
year old running on the beach on a windy day carrying a giant beach ball)
They recommended a firm and with a straight face - the firm recommended that
they recode the entire site (offshore) for an incredible price tag. (And 4
months of frozen dev time)
After switching to tomcat + apache over 2 years ago, I can count on one hand
the number of times we had unexpected outages due to tomcat's bugs. (Which
were easily diagnosed and fixed(worked around) since we had the source)
The site was also significantly faster after the move.
In summary - I'm kind of jaded against weblogic.
-Tim
Bjørn T Johansen wrote:
> I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today..
> They are only using the jsp-container and it is time to renew the
> support agreement with BEA.
> So I was just wondering, is it worth it? Or is Tomcat as good as WL or
> maybe better? Does WL have features that is missing in Tomcat? When the
> time comes to use EJB, is JBoss as good as/better than WL?
>
> So basically, I would like some advice on why I should/shouldn't
> continue with Weblogic? :)
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Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
Posted by calandraca <ca...@gmail.com>.
If you are only using the jsp/servlet container I think Tomcat is a
good choice: good performance, well documented and plenty of people
using it (I think in many cases is the best support).
If you have reasons to get a commercial container you could use a
cheaper solution like ServletExec from NewAtlanta, I used it in a
project and it worked very well. I don't know much about their support
because I tryed mailing lists when I had questions and all was solved
this way.
If you are planning to use any more services from J2EE stack in the
future (EJB, transactions ...), you can try Jonas by Objectweb, a
production quality open source J2EE solution with good and free
documentation. Changing from Tomcat to it should be easy since Jonas
uses Tomcat as servlet/jsp container.
One year ago I used JBoss for testing purposes only, in general it was
a good experience but buying good documentation for $100 wasn't worth
for me (but probably better than paying $$$ for Weblogic).
My suggestion is to try Tomcat now and Jonas in the near future if you
need more.
On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 01:31:52 +0200, Bjørn T Johansen <bt...@havleik.no> wrote:
> I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They are only using
> the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA.
> So I was just wondering, is it worth it? Or is Tomcat as good as WL or maybe better? Does
> WL have features that is missing in Tomcat? When the time comes to use EJB, is JBoss as
> good as/better than WL?
>
> So basically, I would like some advice on why I should/shouldn't continue with Weblogic? :)
>
> Regards,
>
> BTJ
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bjørn T Johansen
> btj@havleik.no
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Someone wrote:
> "I understand that if you play a Windows CD backwards you hear strange Satanic messages"
> To which someone replied:
> "It's even worse than that; play it forwards and it installs Windows"
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
Posted by "Frank W. Zammetti (MLists)" <fz...@omnytex.com>.
The one comment I would make is that with BEA, you have a certain degree
of accountability that you don't have with an open-source product. That
can be important in a business environment.
I'm probably starting a religious war by posting this, but to some
companies it is frankly more important to have someone that's on the hook
for problems that arise (and ultimately someone that is legally liable
should it really go bad), and you just don't have that with an open-source
project. This may or may not be important in your environment, and to be
sure there are plenty of advantages that OSS has over commercial offerings
and you need to weigh those against the downside(s).
I'm not sure I can really comment in terms of how they compare from a
technological standpoint. I can tell you that WebLogic is a very robust
platform (having previously had some apps running on it), and one benefit
that you might see is that having all the various pieces coming from the
same vendor might make it more stable (think BEA vs. Tomcat w/JBoss and
Axis all pieced together). This isn't necasserily true, but could be.
On the flip side, all that functionality comes at the price of added
complexity. Tomcat really is very simple to get going with and to
administer and tune, and if it has all the functionality you need, this
can be a boon to your work.
I do have one app hosted on Tomcat. It's what I would call a
low-to-mid-size app load-wise (around 75 concurrent users at any given
time, on the order of 5,000 requests per day). Tomcat gives us fantastic
performance with that load, so my guess it that it will scale quite a bit
further.
The other thing to be careful about, since you said you are inheriting
this app, is if the programmers did anything that is WL-specific that
you'd have to deal with to convert. If there's nothing, the decision is
in some ways harder because you can justify Tomcat a little bit easier (on
cost if nothing else). If there's ANYTHING that's WL-specific, if I were
in your shoes, I'd probably stick with WL, just to try and minimize any
problems I might get blamed for. It might be tough to figure out if
there's anything that might be a problem or not, so possibly it's better
to play it safe.
In short, I'm a big fan of Tomcat, I use it exclusively during development
and use it in production as well, but since you have an existing app
already running on WL, and since it is a business environment, all things
considered, I'd tend towards the side of sticking with WL. Especially if
your company doesn't have a problem with the price, I think my lean would
increase!
--
Frank W. Zammetti
Founder and Chief Software Architect
Omnytex Technologies
http://www.omnytex.com
On Sun, September 19, 2004 7:31 pm, Bjørn T Johansen said:
> I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They
> are only using
> the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA.
> So I was just wondering, is it worth it? Or is Tomcat as good as WL or
> maybe better? Does
> WL have features that is missing in Tomcat? When the time comes to use
> EJB, is JBoss as
> good as/better than WL?
>
> So basically, I would like some advice on why I should/shouldn't continue
> with Weblogic? :)
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> BTJ
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bjørn T Johansen
> btj@havleik.no
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Someone wrote:
> "I understand that if you play a Windows CD backwards you hear strange
> Satanic messages"
> To which someone replied:
> "It's even worse than that; play it forwards and it installs Windows"
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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RE: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
Posted by John Najarian <j-...@earthlink.net>.
Not so when going to a full blown application server vs
a JSP/Servlet container. I've worked with iPlanet, Sun's
application Server(built on iPlanet) & JBoss. JBoss is
a PIA when compared. Poor documentations & few resources.
-----Original Message-----
From: Big Chiz [mailto:bigchiz@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 5:42 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
as long as you know what you are doing and understand every aspect of
the software you will be using, you wont need any support from any
vendor. at least thats what i understand from using tomcat vs bea.
On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 19:09:46 -0500, epyonne <ep...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> JBOSS is as good as any EJB container out there on the market, if not
> better. The only different is support. You have to pay BEA a small fortune
> for support and they will help you every step of the way. On the other
hand,
> if you use JBOSS, you are pretty much on your own. Although you can hire
the
> JBOSS consulting team to assist you, but you have to have a team of
> developers/admin in-house who are very knowledgeable and know what they
are
> doing.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bjørn T Johansen [mailto:btj@havleik.no]
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 6:32 PM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
>
> I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They
> are only using
> the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA.
> So I was just wondering, is it worth it? Or is Tomcat as good as WL or
maybe
> better? Does
> WL have features that is missing in Tomcat? When the time comes to use
EJB,
> is JBoss as
> good as/better than WL?
>
> So basically, I would like some advice on why I should/shouldn't continue
> with Weblogic? :)
>
> Regards,
>
> BTJ
> --
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------
> Bjørn T Johansen
> btj@havleik.no
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------
> Someone wrote:
> "I understand that if you play a Windows CD backwards you hear strange
> Satanic messages"
> To which someone replied:
> "It's even worse than that; play it forwards and it installs Windows"
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
Posted by Big Chiz <bi...@gmail.com>.
as long as you know what you are doing and understand every aspect of
the software you will be using, you wont need any support from any
vendor. at least thats what i understand from using tomcat vs bea.
On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 19:09:46 -0500, epyonne <ep...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> JBOSS is as good as any EJB container out there on the market, if not
> better. The only different is support. You have to pay BEA a small fortune
> for support and they will help you every step of the way. On the other hand,
> if you use JBOSS, you are pretty much on your own. Although you can hire the
> JBOSS consulting team to assist you, but you have to have a team of
> developers/admin in-house who are very knowledgeable and know what they are
> doing.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bjørn T Johansen [mailto:btj@havleik.no]
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 6:32 PM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
>
> I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They
> are only using
> the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA.
> So I was just wondering, is it worth it? Or is Tomcat as good as WL or maybe
> better? Does
> WL have features that is missing in Tomcat? When the time comes to use EJB,
> is JBoss as
> good as/better than WL?
>
> So basically, I would like some advice on why I should/shouldn't continue
> with Weblogic? :)
>
> Regards,
>
> BTJ
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------
> Bjørn T Johansen
> btj@havleik.no
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------
> Someone wrote:
> "I understand that if you play a Windows CD backwards you hear strange
> Satanic messages"
> To which someone replied:
> "It's even worse than that; play it forwards and it installs Windows"
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
Posted by Endre Stølsvik <En...@Stolsvik.com>.
Ehh, oops. ;)
I was about to post personally to this dude, which obviously is a
Norwegian, when I hit the send button (ctrl+x, y) slightly early!
Endre!
On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Endre Stølsvik wrote:
| On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Bjørn T Johansen wrote:
|
| | I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They are only using
| | the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA.
|
| Kjoer med Tomcat! Serioest - hvis du vet hva det er snakk om, og vet hva
| du gjoer, saa er jo Tomcat -vesentlig- bedre enn noe som helst
| kommersielt.
|
| Sjekk denne:
| http://www.webperformanceinc.com/library/ServletReport/
| (Selskap som hindrer en i aa "publish performance benchmarks"
| simpelthe1n ber om aa -aldri- faa en dollar av meg - det er regelrett
| forkastelig! )
|
| Mvh,
| Endre
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Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
Posted by Endre Stølsvik <En...@Stolsvik.com>.
On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Bjørn T Johansen wrote:
| I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They are only using
| the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA.
Kjoer med Tomcat! Serioest - hvis du vet hva det er snakk om, og vet hva
du gjoer, saa er jo Tomcat -vesentlig- bedre enn noe som helst
kommersielt.
Sjekk denne:
http://www.webperformanceinc.com/library/ServletReport/
(Selskap som hindrer en i aa "publish performance benchmarks"
simpelthe1n ber om aa -aldri- faa en dollar av meg - det er regelrett
forkastelig! )
Mvh,
Endre
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RE: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
Posted by epyonne <ep...@hotmail.com>.
JBOSS is as good as any EJB container out there on the market, if not
better. The only different is support. You have to pay BEA a small fortune
for support and they will help you every step of the way. On the other hand,
if you use JBOSS, you are pretty much on your own. Although you can hire the
JBOSS consulting team to assist you, but you have to have a team of
developers/admin in-house who are very knowledgeable and know what they are
doing.
Hope this helps.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bjørn T Johansen [mailto:btj@havleik.no]
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 6:32 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They
are only using
the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA.
So I was just wondering, is it worth it? Or is Tomcat as good as WL or maybe
better? Does
WL have features that is missing in Tomcat? When the time comes to use EJB,
is JBoss as
good as/better than WL?
So basically, I would like some advice on why I should/shouldn't continue
with Weblogic? :)
Regards,
BTJ
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
Bjørn T Johansen
btj@havleik.no
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
Someone wrote:
"I understand that if you play a Windows CD backwards you hear strange
Satanic messages"
To which someone replied:
"It's even worse than that; play it forwards and it installs Windows"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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RE: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
Posted by John Najarian <j-...@earthlink.net>.
I have to agree with epyonne. JBoss has lousy documentation
& doesn't have good support. Tomcat is a very fine JSP/Servlet
container. There isn't anything it can't do.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bjørn T Johansen [mailto:btj@havleik.no]
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 4:32 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They
are only using
the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA.
So I was just wondering, is it worth it? Or is Tomcat as good as WL or maybe
better? Does
WL have features that is missing in Tomcat? When the time comes to use EJB,
is JBoss as
good as/better than WL?
So basically, I would like some advice on why I should/shouldn't continue
with Weblogic? :)
Regards,
BTJ
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
Bjørn T Johansen
btj@havleik.no
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
Someone wrote:
"I understand that if you play a Windows CD backwards you hear strange
Satanic messages"
To which someone replied:
"It's even worse than that; play it forwards and it installs Windows"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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