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Posted to users@openoffice.apache.org by johnny smith <ka...@krovatka.su> on 2012/10/30 05:45:38 UTC
Re: [OT - headers] Re: question
> Andrea, I see that you are using Thunderbird. What filters are you using
> to sort out non-subcribers/moderated?
non-subscribers/moderated have the string "Delivered-To: moderator for ooo-users@incubator.apache.org" among headers, so they can be labelled. sorry for not being andrea.
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Re: [OT - headers] Re: question
Posted by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net>.
Hagar Delest wrote:
> Le 30/10/2012 14:04, Shane Curcuru a écrit :
>>
>> Hagar Delest pointed out this unfortunate Thunderbird bug that still
>> seems to be open, which means multiple header types might not be
>> filtered correctly:
>>
>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678322
>>
>>> After we migrate lists out of the @incubator.a.o addresses, we may want
>>> to talk to Infra to see if this can be improved.
>
> Perhaps a workaround would be to invert the headers for the Delivered-to
> fileds: since the first one only is detected, then put the moderator first.
>
> Hagar
That may well work Hagar, but I believe it would require a change to
the mailing list softwareand I do not know i we have access to that code
or not.
Regards
Keith
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Re: [OT - headers] Re: question
Posted by Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net>.
Le 30/10/2012 14:04, Shane Curcuru a écrit :
>
> Hagar Delest pointed out this unfortunate Thunderbird bug that still seems to be open, which means multiple header types might not be filtered correctly:
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678322
>
>> After we migrate lists out of the @incubator.a.o addresses, we may want
>> to talk to Infra to see if this can be improved.
Perhaps a workaround would be to invert the headers for the Delivered-to fileds: since the first one only is detected, then put the moderator first.
Hagar
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Re: [OT - headers] Re: question
Posted by NoOp <gl...@sbcglobal.net>.
On 11/02/2012 11:34 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> On 01/11/2012 NoOp wrote:
>> The _nonstandard_ 'Delivered-To' is used for loop-detection: ...
>> and is not defined by any RFC.
>
> Interesting to know, thanks.
>
>> The easiest& best solution IMO would be to add it as an X header
>> (example: X-Delivered-To: moderator). ...
>> Certainly with all of the experience Apache has with mail lists, it
>> shouldn't be too difficult to make the modification... right?
>
> As you have probably discovered by now, talking to Infra isn't always
> easy, especially because with 150 projects they are quite reluctant to
> apply project-specific configuration.
>
> But once the mailing list migration from the Incubator is completed (and
> the overall migration progress so far is good, as you see on
> http://s.apache.org/openoffice-graduation-changes ) we will try to see
> how to improve this. I was thinking of (a combination of) an
> "X-Apache-moderated: yes" header (similar to your proposal), adding a
> "[moderated]" tag at the end of the subject, setting Reply-To to
> list+sender instead of list only. But we will reopen this discussion
> again once the ooo-users list has been moved out of the Incubator
> namespace, which should happen within a few days, depending on Infra.
Thanks Andrea. This has been a thorn in the rear for the mail list(s)
for quite some time (years), so I sincerely hope that Apache can
eventually get this sorted out.
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Re: [OT - headers] Re: question
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 01/11/2012 NoOp wrote:
> The _nonstandard_ 'Delivered-To' is used for loop-detection: ...
> and is not defined by any RFC.
Interesting to know, thanks.
> The easiest& best solution IMO would be to add it as an X header
> (example: X-Delivered-To: moderator). ...
> Certainly with all of the experience Apache has with mail lists, it
> shouldn't be too difficult to make the modification... right?
As you have probably discovered by now, talking to Infra isn't always
easy, especially because with 150 projects they are quite reluctant to
apply project-specific configuration.
But once the mailing list migration from the Incubator is completed (and
the overall migration progress so far is good, as you see on
http://s.apache.org/openoffice-graduation-changes ) we will try to see
how to improve this. I was thinking of (a combination of) an
"X-Apache-moderated: yes" header (similar to your proposal), adding a
"[moderated]" tag at the end of the subject, setting Reply-To to
list+sender instead of list only. But we will reopen this discussion
again once the ooo-users list has been moved out of the Incubator
namespace, which should happen within a few days, depending on Infra.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: [OT - headers] Re: question
Posted by NoOp <gl...@sbcglobal.net>.
On 10/30/2012 06:04 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote:
> On 10/30/2012 3:55 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> johnny smith wrote:
>>>> Andrea, I see that you are using Thunderbird. What filters are you
>>>> using to sort out non-subcribers/moderated?
>>> non-subscribers/moderated have the string "Delivered-To: moderator
>>> for ooo-users@incubator.apache.org" among headers
>
> For some other tips on setting up Thunderbird filtering, please see:
>
> http://markmail.org/message/katmtejfsx5xomvo
>
>> Exactly. Unfortunately it seems that Thunderbird filters often ignore it
>> because they get confused by another "Delivered-To" header, so good
>> sense (you can often guess that someone is new), CTRL-U (to check the
>> source for this header) and "Reply All" (in doubt, just do it) help too.
>
> Hagar Delest pointed out this unfortunate Thunderbird bug that still
> seems to be open, which means multiple header types might not be
> filtered correctly:
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678322
Yes. Been there done that (see my comments on that bug and also on 16913).
The _nonstandard_ 'Delivered-To' is used for loop-detection:
<http://people.dsv.su.se/~jpalme/ietf/mail-headers/mail-headers.html>
<http://www.ninebynine.org/IETF/Messaging/HdrRegistry/draft-klyne-hdrreg-prov-mail-00.html#hdr.Delivered-To>
and is not defined by any RFC. As such, 'Delivered-To', shouldn't be
used twice to begin with. Does the Apache listserv _really_ need two
'Delivered-To' headers for loop detection?
The easiest & best solution IMO would be to add it as an X header
(example: X-Delivered-To: moderator). That way it is a distinct header
that any mail or nntp client that is capable of filtering on headers can
use.
Certainly with all of the experience Apache has with mail lists, it
shouldn't be too difficult to make the modification... right?
...
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Re: [OT - headers] Re: question
Posted by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net>.
Shane Curcuru wrote:
> On 10/30/2012 3:55 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> johnny smith wrote:
>>>> Andrea, I see that you are using Thunderbird. What filters are you
>>>> using to sort out non-subcribers/moderated?
>>> non-subscribers/moderated have the string "Delivered-To: moderator
>>> for ooo-users@incubator.apache.org" among headers
>
> For some other tips on setting up Thunderbird filtering, please see:
>
> http://markmail.org/message/katmtejfsx5xomvo
>
Shane;
That filter will work fine to move them to a specific folder, but will
not address the issue of easily identifying unsubscribed users. The only
way I have ever found is to use the Delivered-To: contains moderator Tag
[your favorite colour] construct. Unfortunately an unresolved bug in
Thunderbird rules that out for people using it as a mail and nntp client.
Regards
Keith
>> Exactly. Unfortunately it seems that Thunderbird filters often ignore it
>> because they get confused by another "Delivered-To" header, so good
>> sense (you can often guess that someone is new), CTRL-U (to check the
>> source for this header) and "Reply All" (in doubt, just do it) help too.
>
> Hagar Delest pointed out this unfortunate Thunderbird bug that still
> seems to be open, which means multiple header types might not be
> filtered correctly:
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678322
>
>> After we migrate lists out of the @incubator.a.o addresses, we may want
>> to talk to Infra to see if this can be improved.
>
> +1, this list in particular would get a big benefit if we could figure
> out clear instructions for this issue.
>
> - Shane
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Re: [OT - headers] Re: question
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
On 10/30/2012 3:55 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> johnny smith wrote:
>>> Andrea, I see that you are using Thunderbird. What filters are you
>>> using to sort out non-subcribers/moderated?
>> non-subscribers/moderated have the string "Delivered-To: moderator
>> for ooo-users@incubator.apache.org" among headers
For some other tips on setting up Thunderbird filtering, please see:
http://markmail.org/message/katmtejfsx5xomvo
> Exactly. Unfortunately it seems that Thunderbird filters often ignore it
> because they get confused by another "Delivered-To" header, so good
> sense (you can often guess that someone is new), CTRL-U (to check the
> source for this header) and "Reply All" (in doubt, just do it) help too.
Hagar Delest pointed out this unfortunate Thunderbird bug that still
seems to be open, which means multiple header types might not be
filtered correctly:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678322
> After we migrate lists out of the @incubator.a.o addresses, we may want
> to talk to Infra to see if this can be improved.
+1, this list in particular would get a big benefit if we could figure
out clear instructions for this issue.
- Shane
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Re: [OT - headers] Re: question
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
johnny smith wrote:
>> Andrea, I see that you are using Thunderbird. What filters are you
>> using to sort out non-subcribers/moderated?
> non-subscribers/moderated have the string "Delivered-To: moderator
> for ooo-users@incubator.apache.org" among headers
Exactly. Unfortunately it seems that Thunderbird filters often ignore it
because they get confused by another "Delivered-To" header, so good
sense (you can often guess that someone is new), CTRL-U (to check the
source for this header) and "Reply All" (in doubt, just do it) help too.
After we migrate lists out of the @incubator.a.o addresses, we may want
to talk to Infra to see if this can be improved.
Regards,
Andrea.
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