Ideas

["Markus M. May" <mm...@gmx.net>]

Hello,
I just stumbled accross this project. Since I have been working with some
other guys on another tool, which pretty much does the same stuff and this
project died :-( I am pretty interested in this project. I have been working in
the last couple of weeks on a major re-implementation of greebo and I would
like to give you an idea on what we where planning. Probably this would give
you some ideas of what to implement:

- We too wanted to use VFS
- We have had some discussions about repository artifacts (in maven:
dependencies)
   these could be:
   - jars (obviously)
   - javadocs
   - zips / tars
   - probably even dlls??
- Versioning of the artifacts
- some configuration ideas: 
   - one general repository.xml for all projects
   - one repository.xml for a specific project
   - a artifact.xml with all dependencies for a specific project

Our design of the artifact.xml is pretty close to the design of the maven
dependencies. But there are still some possibilities for improvement. I believe
that the server should also contain some version information about all
artifacts and possibly even a file where a short description and also a hyperlink
to the project itself. 
Basically the current project can be found at greebo.sf.net. This is a very
old version and not really useful. If you would like to, I can send later
today a .zip-File with the new design of this project (renamed to RepoMan -
Repository Manager). This is basically just a design and not a real
implementation. I would be more then happy to contribute this to this project.

Regards,

Marcus M. May

Re: Ideas

[Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>]

dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org> wrote on 07/11/2003 12:34:54 AM:
> 
>>Reading Dion's messages I gather that there is no particular will of 
>>Maven to participate ATM to an independent "Repo" project with active 
>>development as ATM Maven is satisfied of its current implementation. In 
> 
> Please don't put words in my mouth.

Sorry, it is not my intention. In fact the opposite is true. I'm just 
trying to explain what I think you are saying, and writing it down so 
you can tell me if it's right or not, like you are doing now.

> I am not 'Maven'. The will of Maven is the will of it's developers. I'm 
> just one. What they want to do is have a stable, functional product. 
> Developing a repository and access/management code for one seems a bit 
> redundant for most maven developers, as we already have one, as you say.

Then what I have written seems to be correct in essence, as for "Maven" 
I mean here "most maven developers".

I don't want to give a negative connotation to what I'm saying, but it 
seems it's not os easy :-/

Please believe me when I say that I understand and agree on your above 
explanation.

>>fact it works as advertised and as it's needed by Maven, so I really 
>>can't blame them, also because they have a release to make now. I'm 
>>talking about developers that have time to collaborate now here, as Dion 
>>has showed that Maven has already code that can be used in an 
>>independent project.
>>
>>Furthermore I appreciate a lot Dion's active participation on this list 
>>as it will surely bring to a single spec that all implementations can 
>>adhere to.
> 
> I personally doubt that :-)

I don't  :-P

>>As Ruper and Greebo developers seem very much interested and active ATM 
>>on code, and since I think it's good for Apache to have an independent 
>>Repo project with it's own community I am thinking if it's time to 
>>propose that the Incubator starts hosting an independent code effort.
> 
> I'd prefer we not even think about code until we have the repository and 
> it's format understood and agreed on. Bringing code and projects into the 
> mix now just confuses the issue.

It's a totally orthogonal thing. What I'm saying is that incubating such 
a project is not something that I want to do here on this list, as in 
fact it would really confuse things.

>>This would make it possible for Ruper and Greebo developers to 
>>participate together on the code right now, and have Maven developers 
>>participate on equal standing without constriction or time constraints, 
>>both in participation and adoption.
>>
>>What do you guys think?
> 
> If Ruper, Greebo and Maven developers want to work on code, go for it. 

Ok, very good.

> But, as a developer, I'd prefer we have our 'requirements' down before we 
> go about adopting codebases and developers.

Hmmm... it's not like we are totally unknowing of the goals, AFAIK we 
are working on details...

> Let's agree on what the repository is and what tools we need before we 
> start incubating.

I have no particular personal urge to start now or later, as in fact I'm 
not a developer of any of the above projects. But discussing without 
code is really wierd, and brings to issues being rehashed.

-- 
Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken@apache.org
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Ideas

[di...@multitask.com.au]

Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org> wrote on 07/11/2003 12:34:54 AM:

> Reading Dion's messages I gather that there is no particular will of 
> Maven to participate ATM to an independent "Repo" project with active 
> development as ATM Maven is satisfied of its current implementation. In 

Please don't put words in my mouth.

I am not 'Maven'. The will of Maven is the will of it's developers. I'm 
just one. What they want to do is have a stable, functional product. 
Developing a repository and access/management code for one seems a bit 
redundant for most maven developers, as we already have one, as you say.

> fact it works as advertised and as it's needed by Maven, so I really 
> can't blame them, also because they have a release to make now. I'm 
> talking about developers that have time to collaborate now here, as Dion 

> has showed that Maven has already code that can be used in an 
> independent project.
> 
> Furthermore I appreciate a lot Dion's active participation on this list 
> as it will surely bring to a single spec that all implementations can 
> adhere to.

I personally doubt that :-)

> As Ruper and Greebo developers seem very much interested and active ATM 
> on code, and since I think it's good for Apache to have an independent 
> Repo project with it's own community I am thinking if it's time to 
> propose that the Incubator starts hosting an independent code effort.

I'd prefer we not even think about code until we have the repository and 
it's format understood and agreed on. Bringing code and projects into the 
mix now just confuses the issue.

> This would make it possible for Ruper and Greebo developers to 
> participate together on the code right now, and have Maven developers 
> participate on equal standing without constriction or time constraints, 
> both in participation and adoption.
> 
> What do you guys think?

If Ruper, Greebo and Maven developers want to work on code, go for it. 
But, as a developer, I'd prefer we have our 'requirements' down before we 
go about adopting codebases and developers.

Let's agree on what the repository is and what tools we need before we 
start incubating.


--
dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Blog:      http://blogs.codehaus.org/people/dion/
Pub Key:http://blogs.codehaus.org/people/dion/public-key.asc

Re: Ideas

[Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>]

Markus M. May wrote:
> Hello,
> I just stumbled accross this project. Since I have been working with some
> other guys on another tool, which pretty much does the same stuff and this
> project died :-( I am pretty interested in this project. I have been working in
> the last couple of weeks on a major re-implementation of greebo

Ahhh, Greebo! :-)

I have heard of it on the Ant list, and I'm *really* happy that you are 
interested in joining efforts.

> and I would
> like to give you an idea on what we where planning. Probably this would give
> you some ideas of what to implement:

Before we talk about implementation, we need to define the specs, and 
this list (not a "real" project, more a collaboration space) is about 
discussing the specifications for an Apache artifact repository.

As for implementations there are AFAIK:

  - Maven  (http://maven.apache.org/)
  - Ruper  (http://www.krysalis.org/ruper/)
  - Greebo (http://greebo.sf.net/)

Ruper has already proposed itself to Apache quite some time ago, and all 
developers are now also Apache developers (on other projects) and on 
this list. So Ruper is also interested in moving the efforts to Apache.

Reading Dion's messages I gather that there is no particular will of 
Maven to participate ATM to an independent "Repo" project with active 
development as ATM Maven is satisfied of its current implementation. In 
fact it works as advertised and as it's needed by Maven, so I really 
can't blame them, also because they have a release to make now. I'm 
talking about developers that have time to collaborate now here, as Dion 
has showed that Maven has already code that can be used in an 
independent project.

Furthermore I appreciate a lot Dion's active participation on this list 
as it will surely bring to a single spec that all implementations can 
adhere to.

As Ruper and Greebo developers seem very much interested and active ATM 
on code, and since I think it's good for Apache to have an independent 
Repo project with it's own community I am thinking if it's time to 
propose that the Incubator starts hosting an independent code effort.

This would make it possible for Ruper and Greebo developers to 
participate together on the code right now, and have Maven developers 
participate on equal standing without constriction or time constraints, 
both in participation and adoption.

What do you guys think?

<snipped what="good ideas"
          discuss="by repo active developers, I just advocate"/>

> I would be more then happy to contribute this to this project.

Excellent :-)

-- 
Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken@apache.org
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------