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Posted to users@subversion.apache.org by "Ghassemi, Hamid" <hg...@medassets.com> on 2009/03/05 18:23:26 UTC
Subversion Vs. Microsoft Team Foundation Server
Good morning,
One of our development teams is planning to move to Subversion from
Microsoft Team Foundation Server , for many obvious reason, one being
the cost. However, in order to justify the move to powers-that-be we
need some sort of comparison report. I have been looking at all the
posts on the net and have not found one. Has anyone in these email list
done such a comparison and if so, can you tell me what have you found.
Most reports I have seem to suggest the TFS is far better than SVN ( of
course this comes from Microsoft site itself ).
Thanks
Hamid Ghassemi
Hamid Ghassemi
Lead Software Engineer
MedAssets
14405 SE 36th St Suite 206
Bellevue WA 98006
(877) 937-3600 X502 Direct
(425) 466-3088 Mobile
hghassemi@medassets.com
www.medassets.com
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers
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Re: Subversion Vs. Microsoft Team Foundation Server
Posted by Frank Gruman <fg...@verizon.net>.
On Thu, 2009-03-05 at 13:23 -0500, Ghassemi, Hamid wrote:
> Good morning,
>
>
>
> One of our development teams is planning to move to Subversion from
> Microsoft Team Foundation Server , for many obvious reason, one being
> the cost. However, in order to justify the move to powers-that-be we
> need some sort of comparison report. I have been looking at all the
> posts on the net and have not found one. Has anyone in these email
> list done such a comparison and if so, can you tell me what have you
> found. Most reports I have seem to suggest the TFS is far better than
> SVN ( of course this comes from Microsoft site itself ).
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Hamid Ghassemi
>
>
>
> Hamid Ghassemi
> Lead Software Engineer
>
> MedAssets
> 14405 SE 36th St Suite 206
> Bellevue WA 98006
> (877) 937-3600 X502 Direct
> (425) 466-3088 Mobile
> hghassemi@medassets.com
> www.medassets.com
>
>
>
>
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers
>
My company uses TFS for all of the extra bling. The canned reports and
"project" tracking that it allows to happen. Personally, I think we
could get very similar functionality out of Subversion and some other
tools (Bugzilla, Fisheye, etc) and save some money. But the decision is
not mine to make so I work with what I am given.
I still use Subversion at home and on other personal projects. I have
had conversations with fellow developers comparing some of the pros and
cons of the TFS version control components versus SVN. But nothing
formal. From pure VCS I think it might come down to preference (and, of
course, cost)...
Regards,
Frank
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RE: Subversion Vs. Microsoft Team Foundation Server
Posted by "Bolstridge, Andrew" <an...@intergraph.com>.
I’ve not seen anything like that, but as was mentioned, TFS does more than SVN – it’s a full-featured SCM, not a version control repository. One reason why it costs infinitely more I guess J
However, perhaps it’s time to make your own comparative review: think what you use TFS for at the moment, make a list, and then you (or we) can take each item and give you some indication of the differences, or at least how SVN fills those requirements.
I’m sure many of the features of TFS can be replicated using alternative tools – eg bug tracking is provided by many web-based tools and can be integrated with SVN.
From: Ghassemi, Hamid [mailto:hghassemi@medassets.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 6:23 PM
To: users@subversion.tigris.org; forum4@subversion.open.collab.net
Subject: Subversion Vs. Microsoft Team Foundation Server
Good morning,
One of our development teams is planning to move to Subversion from Microsoft Team Foundation Server , for many obvious reason, one being the cost. However, in order to justify the move to powers-that-be we need some sort of comparison report. I have been looking at all the posts on the net and have not found one. Has anyone in these email list done such a comparison and if so, can you tell me what have you found. Most reports I have seem to suggest the TFS is far better than SVN ( of course this comes from Microsoft site itself ).
Thanks
Hamid Ghassemi
Hamid Ghassemi
Lead Software Engineer
MedAssets
14405 SE 36th St Suite 206
Bellevue WA 98006
(877) 937-3600 X502 Direct
(425) 466-3088 Mobile
hghassemi@medassets.com
www.medassets.com
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers
------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Subversion Vs. Microsoft Team Foundation Server
Posted by Stefan Sperling <st...@elego.de>.
On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 10:31:49AM +0100, Bert Huijben wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Stefan Sperling <st...@elego.de> wrote:
> > Does anyone know if TFS has something akin to Subversion 1.6's
> > tree conflict detection? If you don't know what that is see
> > http://svnbook.red-bean.com/nightly/en/svn.tour.treeconflicts.html
> >
> > If it does have such a feature, how decent does it handle those
> > kinds of conflicts? That would be interesting to know.
> >
> > For a more detailed description see my BSc Thesis here:
> > https://www.inf.fu-berlin.de/w/SE/ThesisTreeConflicts
> >
> > I wanted to include TFS in my thesis but couldn't because of lack
> > of time. Now having moved on to another college I can't try TFS
> > myself anymore. Even if I had the time, and if there was a trial
> > license (dunno if there is one), I totally lack the will to install
> > Windows on my system.
> >
> > So if anyone could try some or all of the test cases presented in the
> > thesis with TFS and let me know the results I'd be forever grateful.
> > (Same goes for any other SCM that is not covered in the thesis btw.)
> >
> > And any kind of general information about tree conflicts and TFS
> > is of course appreciated just as well.
>
> Stefan,
>
> There is a Visual Studio 2010 CTP Virtual PC you can download at
> Microsoft which includes a complete installation of the TFS 2010 CTP.
> (I think you can just open it with VMWare, as they should be able to
> convert the VHD files)
Thanks for the hint.
Vmware does not run on OpenBSD, which currently takes up all
the space on my disk.
I guess I could re-install my system and install linux next to BSD
this time, to install some trial/nocost version of vmware on that,
to try that virtual pc image. When I find the time, some day.
But I don't know if I'm really bother enough to jump through that
many hoops.
> And yes, it includes tree conflict support. (Not sure to which level,
> but the demos of their new conflict handling toolwindow includes
> examples of what we call tree conflicts).
And there's *no* information on this in some readable form?
I've seen some advertisting material for TFS, it did not contain
the information I was looking for. It was mosly made up of graphics
with 3D objects that looked like very sweet candy, and didn't say
very much other than that the product was supposed to be the second
coming of Jesus.
Don't they have PDFs they can show to technical people who are
interested in their tools?
Even word documents I can open with open office would do...
> TFS leaves more of the conflict handling to the users than Subversion
> does, but I have no experience in using this in real world scenarios.
Ideally, I'd like to get information from someone who does have
that kind of experience.
Stefan
Re: Subversion Vs. Microsoft Team Foundation Server
Posted by Bert Huijben <rh...@sharpsvn.net>.
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Stefan Sperling <st...@elego.de> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 12:56:36PM -0600, Les Mikesell wrote:
>> David Weintraub wrote:
>> >> One of our development teams is planning to move to Subversion from
>> >> Microsoft Team Foundation Server , for many obvious reason, one being the
>> >> cost. However, in order to justify the move to powers-that-be we need some
>> >> sort of comparison report. I have been looking at all the posts on the net
>> >> and have not found one. Has anyone in these email list done such a
>> >> comparison and if so, can you tell me what have you found. Most reports I
>> >> have seem to suggest the TFS is far better than SVN ( of course this comes
>> >> from Microsoft site itself ).
>> >
>> > TFS has a lot of bling and whistles, so a simple straight comparison
>> > will make it shine.
>> >
>> > The big question is why are you moving from TFS in the first place. Is
>> > it because you're simply more familiar with Subversion? Or, have you
>> > had problems with TFS -- maybe difficult to use or slow? Have you lost
>> > data with TFS or find that it doesn't integrate well with other
>> > systems you have? Or, is it simply a matter of cost? You can no longer
>> > justify the spending of $X for each and every developer because it
>> > takes up so much of your budget.
>> >
>> > That is much more important than some sort of feature check-off chart.
>>
>> In the bigger picture you probably do need to look at the features you
>> use and need, and while subversion provides only version control you can
>> use your choice of other packages for the rest. For example you might
>> want to use Trac for bug tracking and Hudson as a build system.
>
> Does anyone know if TFS has something akin to Subversion 1.6's
> tree conflict detection? If you don't know what that is see
> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/nightly/en/svn.tour.treeconflicts.html
>
> If it does have such a feature, how decent does it handle those
> kinds of conflicts? That would be interesting to know.
>
> For a more detailed description see my BSc Thesis here:
> https://www.inf.fu-berlin.de/w/SE/ThesisTreeConflicts
>
> I wanted to include TFS in my thesis but couldn't because of lack
> of time. Now having moved on to another college I can't try TFS
> myself anymore. Even if I had the time, and if there was a trial
> license (dunno if there is one), I totally lack the will to install
> Windows on my system.
>
> So if anyone could try some or all of the test cases presented in the
> thesis with TFS and let me know the results I'd be forever grateful.
> (Same goes for any other SCM that is not covered in the thesis btw.)
>
> And any kind of general information about tree conflicts and TFS
> is of course appreciated just as well.
Stefan,
There is a Visual Studio 2010 CTP Virtual PC you can download at
Microsoft which includes a complete installation of the TFS 2010 CTP.
(I think you can just open it with VMWare, as they should be able to
convert the VHD files)
And yes, it includes tree conflict support. (Not sure to which level,
but the demos of their new conflict handling toolwindow includes
examples of what we call tree conflicts).
TFS leaves more of the conflict handling to the users than Subversion
does, but I have no experience in using this in real world scenarios.
But as one of the primary developers of AnkhSVN (For those who don't
know: An open source Visual Studio source control provider for
Subversion), I follow the public information on TFS with great
interest.
Bert
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Re: Subversion Vs. Microsoft Team Foundation Server
Posted by Stefan Sperling <st...@elego.de>.
On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 12:56:36PM -0600, Les Mikesell wrote:
> David Weintraub wrote:
> >> One of our development teams is planning to move to Subversion from
> >> Microsoft Team Foundation Server , for many obvious reason, one being the
> >> cost. However, in order to justify the move to powers-that-be we need some
> >> sort of comparison report. I have been looking at all the posts on the net
> >> and have not found one. Has anyone in these email list done such a
> >> comparison and if so, can you tell me what have you found. Most reports I
> >> have seem to suggest the TFS is far better than SVN ( of course this comes
> >> from Microsoft site itself ).
> >
> > TFS has a lot of bling and whistles, so a simple straight comparison
> > will make it shine.
> >
> > The big question is why are you moving from TFS in the first place. Is
> > it because you're simply more familiar with Subversion? Or, have you
> > had problems with TFS -- maybe difficult to use or slow? Have you lost
> > data with TFS or find that it doesn't integrate well with other
> > systems you have? Or, is it simply a matter of cost? You can no longer
> > justify the spending of $X for each and every developer because it
> > takes up so much of your budget.
> >
> > That is much more important than some sort of feature check-off chart.
>
> In the bigger picture you probably do need to look at the features you
> use and need, and while subversion provides only version control you can
> use your choice of other packages for the rest. For example you might
> want to use Trac for bug tracking and Hudson as a build system.
Does anyone know if TFS has something akin to Subversion 1.6's
tree conflict detection? If you don't know what that is see
http://svnbook.red-bean.com/nightly/en/svn.tour.treeconflicts.html
If it does have such a feature, how decent does it handle those
kinds of conflicts? That would be interesting to know.
For a more detailed description see my BSc Thesis here:
https://www.inf.fu-berlin.de/w/SE/ThesisTreeConflicts
I wanted to include TFS in my thesis but couldn't because of lack
of time. Now having moved on to another college I can't try TFS
myself anymore. Even if I had the time, and if there was a trial
license (dunno if there is one), I totally lack the will to install
Windows on my system.
So if anyone could try some or all of the test cases presented in the
thesis with TFS and let me know the results I'd be forever grateful.
(Same goes for any other SCM that is not covered in the thesis btw.)
And any kind of general information about tree conflicts and TFS
is of course appreciated just as well.
Thanks,
Stefan
Re: Subversion Vs. Microsoft Team Foundation Server
Posted by Les Mikesell <le...@gmail.com>.
David Weintraub wrote:
>> One of our development teams is planning to move to Subversion from
>> Microsoft Team Foundation Server , for many obvious reason, one being the
>> cost. However, in order to justify the move to powers-that-be we need some
>> sort of comparison report. I have been looking at all the posts on the net
>> and have not found one. Has anyone in these email list done such a
>> comparison and if so, can you tell me what have you found. Most reports I
>> have seem to suggest the TFS is far better than SVN ( of course this comes
>> from Microsoft site itself ).
>
> TFS has a lot of bling and whistles, so a simple straight comparison
> will make it shine.
>
> The big question is why are you moving from TFS in the first place. Is
> it because you're simply more familiar with Subversion? Or, have you
> had problems with TFS -- maybe difficult to use or slow? Have you lost
> data with TFS or find that it doesn't integrate well with other
> systems you have? Or, is it simply a matter of cost? You can no longer
> justify the spending of $X for each and every developer because it
> takes up so much of your budget.
>
> That is much more important than some sort of feature check-off chart.
In the bigger picture you probably do need to look at the features you
use and need, and while subversion provides only version control you can
use your choice of other packages for the rest. For example you might
want to use Trac for bug tracking and Hudson as a build system.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com
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Re: Subversion Vs. Microsoft Team Foundation Server
Posted by David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>.
> One of our development teams is planning to move to Subversion from
> Microsoft Team Foundation Server , for many obvious reason, one being the
> cost. However, in order to justify the move to powers-that-be we need some
> sort of comparison report. I have been looking at all the posts on the net
> and have not found one. Has anyone in these email list done such a
> comparison and if so, can you tell me what have you found. Most reports I
> have seem to suggest the TFS is far better than SVN ( of course this comes
> from Microsoft site itself ).
TFS has a lot of bling and whistles, so a simple straight comparison
will make it shine.
The big question is why are you moving from TFS in the first place. Is
it because you're simply more familiar with Subversion? Or, have you
had problems with TFS -- maybe difficult to use or slow? Have you lost
data with TFS or find that it doesn't integrate well with other
systems you have? Or, is it simply a matter of cost? You can no longer
justify the spending of $X for each and every developer because it
takes up so much of your budget.
That is much more important than some sort of feature check-off chart.
--
David Weintraub
qazwart@gmail.com
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RE: Subversion Vs. Microsoft Team Foundation Server
Posted by "Srilakshmanan, Lakshman" <la...@police.vic.gov.au>.
Hi Hamid,
TFS is more than an SCM. it includes a build server, bug tracking, CI
and more. So comparing TFS and Subversion is not comparing apples with
apples.
That said, to perform rollback in TFS (in my understanding) requires the
use of TFS power tools (tfpt.exe). It is also my understanding that
Microsoft did not officially support this tool (as at Jan 2008). This
may have changed.
Thanks
Lakshman
________________________________
From: Ghassemi, Hamid [mailto:hghassemi@medassets.com]
Sent: Friday, 6 March 2009 5:23 AM
To: users@subversion.tigris.org; forum4@subversion.open.collab.net
Subject: Subversion Vs. Microsoft Team Foundation Server
Good morning,
One of our development teams is planning to move to Subversion from
Microsoft Team Foundation Server , for many obvious reason, one being
the cost. However, in order to justify the move to powers-that-be we
need some sort of comparison report. I have been looking at all the
posts on the net and have not found one. Has anyone in these email list
done such a comparison and if so, can you tell me what have you found.
Most reports I have seem to suggest the TFS is far better than SVN ( of
course this comes from Microsoft site itself ).
Thanks
Hamid Ghassemi
Hamid Ghassemi
Lead Software Engineer
MedAssets
14405 SE 36th St Suite 206
Bellevue WA 98006
(877) 937-3600 X502 Direct
(425) 466-3088 Mobile
hghassemi@medassets.com
www.medassets.com
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or
privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
material from all computers
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