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Posted to dev@cordova.apache.org by Gord Tanner <gt...@gmail.com> on 2012/07/21 01:20:45 UTC
DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
RIM has done a lot of work in Ripple to support the Cordova (PhoneGap)
platform, now having almost full support for all of the platform APIs.
We(RIM) believes that the natural home for Ripple is in the Apache Software
Foundation as a sub-project of Cordova and we want to contribute Ripple to
the ASF. However, this is the first time we are doing something like this
and the entire company is focused on our BB10 delivery.
We have been working very closely with the former Nitobi guys and will also
work closely with the Cordova community. We hope to have the support needed
in this community to help us find the best way to make this happen.
If you are wondering what ripple is you can see the code here:
https://github.com/blackberry/Ripple-UI
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 22 July 2012 10:02, Laurent Hasson <lh...@rim.com> wrote:
> Ross,
>
> I had suggested that because of my prior involvement many years ago with the Lucene project and its sub-project structure including Solr.
>The reason for the thinking though was simply that Ripple would have a strong "Cordova" support in terms of API emulation and relate closely to that project. We can of course discuss this in the community to figure out the best option. Any reason why sub-projects are frowned upon?
>
If it *only* uses Cordova then that might make sense. But from a quick
scan of the documentation it would appear that it supports other
frameworks too. From a community development point of view putting it
into Cordova limits the potential audience significantly. I'd
therefore suggest thinking carefully about where the right home is.
Dropping it into Cordova will make creation of the project a little
simpler (although the legal sign-off will still need to be done and in
most large companies that is the hardest part). However, as I said,
dropping it into Cordova is likely to limit opportunities for
community development.
> As for the statement "the entire company is focused on our BB10 delivery", it was meant only to highlight that moving Ripple to Apache may take a bit longer to do as a result, not that there was any less commitment to Ripple from our site. Quite the contrary.
>
Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification.
Ross
>
>
> Thank You
> ------------------------------------------------
> - LDH (Laurent Hasson) -
> - Technical Director, BlackBerry Web Platform -
> - Research In Motion -
> - Email: lhasson@rim.com -
> - Mobile: 646-460-7066 -
> - Twitter: @ldhasson -
> ------------------------------------------------
> "Strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government" - Dennis
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ross Gardler [mailto:rgardler@opendirective.com]
> Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 11:01 PM
> To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
>
> On 21 July 2012 15:14, Filip Maj <fi...@adobe.com> wrote:
>> I am very excited about this!
>>
>> The cordova suite of projects have never addressed emulation and my go-to
>> has always been Ripple.
>>
>> If there is anything I can do to help please let me know.
>>
>> Mentors (Jukka?): other than setting up a repository, do you foresee any
>> issues with moving ahead with this?
>
> The ASF does not encourage sub-projects. I'd like to hear why the
> proposal for this to be a subproject of Cordova rather than a podling
> in its own right?
>
> I'm also a little concerned about the statement "and the entire
> company is focused on our BB10 delivery." This implies that RIM is no
> longer interested in actively developing the code. The ASF is not a
> place for code-dumps. However, it is entirely possible that I'm
> reading too much into that half-sentence, it is also possible that
> there is sufficient momentum behind the project to make it a viable
> community without RIM.
>
> Ross
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential information, privileged material (including material protected by the solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful.
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
RE: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by eduardo pelegri-llopart <ep...@gmail.com>.
As Laurent says:
>>As for the statement "the entire company is focused on our BB10
delivery", it was meant only to highlight that moving Ripple to Apache may
take a bit longer to do as a result, not that there was any less commitment
to Ripple from our site. Quite the contrary.<<
We are all very committed and I will help Laurent and the team to make it
happen as quickly as possible, but the execs and legl and others have
questions and some things may happen a bit slower than we want.
Sent from my BlackBerry® PlayBook™
www.blackberry.com
------------------------------
*From:* "Laurent Hasson" <lh...@rim.com>
*To:* "callback-dev@incubator.apache.org" <callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
>
*Sent:* July 22, 2012 10:03 AM
*Subject:* RE: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Ross,
I had suggested that because of my prior involvement many years ago
with the Lucene project and its sub-project structure including Solr.
This was many years ago, so if this is an obsolete structure, I am
fine. The reason for the thinking though was simply that Ripple would
have a strong "Cordova" support in terms of API emulation and relate
closely to that project. We can of course discuss this in the
community to figure out the best option. Any reason why sub-projects
are frowned upon?
As for the statement "the entire company is focused on our BB10
delivery", it was meant only to highlight that moving Ripple to Apache
may take a bit longer to do as a result, not that there was any less
commitment to Ripple from our site. Quite the contrary.
Thank You
------------------------------------------------
- LDH (Laurent Hasson) -
- Technical Director, BlackBerry Web Platform -
- Research In Motion -
- Email: lhasson@rim.com -
- Mobile: 646-460-7066 -
- Twitter: @ldhasson -
------------------------------------------------
"Strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a
system of government" - Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Ross Gardler [mailto:rgardler@opendirective.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 11:01 PM
To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
On 21 July 2012 15:14, Filip Maj wrote:
> I am very excited about this!
>
> The cordova suite of projects have never addressed emulation and my go-to
> has always been Ripple.
>
> If there is anything I can do to help please let me know.
>
> Mentors (Jukka?): other than setting up a repository, do you foresee any
> issues with moving ahead with this?
The ASF does not encourage sub-projects. I'd like to hear why the
proposal for this to be a subproject of Cordova rather than a podling
in its own right?
I'm also a little concerned about the statement "and the entire
company is focused on our BB10 delivery." This implies that RIM is no
longer interested in actively developing the code. The ASF is not a
place for code-dumps. However, it is entirely possible that I'm
reading too much into that half-sentence, it is also possible that
there is sufficient momentum behind the project to make it a viable
community without RIM.
Ross
---------------------------------------------------------------------
This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential
information, privileged material (including material protected by the
solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute
non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other
than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this
transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and
delete this information from your system. Use, dissemination,
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RE: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Laurent Hasson <lh...@rim.com>.
Ross,
I had suggested that because of my prior involvement many years ago with the Lucene project and its sub-project structure including Solr. This was many years ago, so if this is an obsolete structure, I am fine. The reason for the thinking though was simply that Ripple would have a strong "Cordova" support in terms of API emulation and relate closely to that project. We can of course discuss this in the community to figure out the best option. Any reason why sub-projects are frowned upon?
As for the statement "the entire company is focused on our BB10 delivery", it was meant only to highlight that moving Ripple to Apache may take a bit longer to do as a result, not that there was any less commitment to Ripple from our site. Quite the contrary.
Thank You
------------------------------------------------
- LDH (Laurent Hasson) -
- Technical Director, BlackBerry Web Platform -
- Research In Motion -
- Email: lhasson@rim.com -
- Mobile: 646-460-7066 -
- Twitter: @ldhasson -
------------------------------------------------
"Strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government" - Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Ross Gardler [mailto:rgardler@opendirective.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 11:01 PM
To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
On 21 July 2012 15:14, Filip Maj <fi...@adobe.com> wrote:
> I am very excited about this!
>
> The cordova suite of projects have never addressed emulation and my go-to
> has always been Ripple.
>
> If there is anything I can do to help please let me know.
>
> Mentors (Jukka?): other than setting up a repository, do you foresee any
> issues with moving ahead with this?
The ASF does not encourage sub-projects. I'd like to hear why the
proposal for this to be a subproject of Cordova rather than a podling
in its own right?
I'm also a little concerned about the statement "and the entire
company is focused on our BB10 delivery." This implies that RIM is no
longer interested in actively developing the code. The ASF is not a
place for code-dumps. However, it is entirely possible that I'm
reading too much into that half-sentence, it is also possible that
there is sufficient momentum behind the project to make it a viable
community without RIM.
Ross
---------------------------------------------------------------------
This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential information, privileged material (including material protected by the solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful.
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by gt...@gmail.com.
We kind of feel that ripple fits nicely into cordova like winre and the mobile-spec, thus our desire to have it as a sub project. Also the development effort between the two projects is very tightly integrated (emulation vrs implementation)
This isn't a dead project, what we were meaning is we want to get this moved into apache but we are too busy coding it to have time to figure it out :P
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:00:31
To: <ca...@incubator.apache.org>
Reply-To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
On 21 July 2012 15:14, Filip Maj <fi...@adobe.com> wrote:
> I am very excited about this!
>
> The cordova suite of projects have never addressed emulation and my go-to
> has always been Ripple.
>
> If there is anything I can do to help please let me know.
>
> Mentors (Jukka?): other than setting up a repository, do you foresee any
> issues with moving ahead with this?
The ASF does not encourage sub-projects. I'd like to hear why the
proposal for this to be a subproject of Cordova rather than a podling
in its own right?
I'm also a little concerned about the statement "and the entire
company is focused on our BB10 delivery." This implies that RIM is no
longer interested in actively developing the code. The ASF is not a
place for code-dumps. However, it is entirely possible that I'm
reading too much into that half-sentence, it is also possible that
there is sufficient momentum behind the project to make it a viable
community without RIM.
Ross
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 21 July 2012 15:14, Filip Maj <fi...@adobe.com> wrote:
> I am very excited about this!
>
> The cordova suite of projects have never addressed emulation and my go-to
> has always been Ripple.
>
> If there is anything I can do to help please let me know.
>
> Mentors (Jukka?): other than setting up a repository, do you foresee any
> issues with moving ahead with this?
The ASF does not encourage sub-projects. I'd like to hear why the
proposal for this to be a subproject of Cordova rather than a podling
in its own right?
I'm also a little concerned about the statement "and the entire
company is focused on our BB10 delivery." This implies that RIM is no
longer interested in actively developing the code. The ASF is not a
place for code-dumps. However, it is entirely possible that I'm
reading too much into that half-sentence, it is also possible that
there is sufficient momentum behind the project to make it a viable
community without RIM.
Ross
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Michael Brooks <mi...@michaelbrooks.ca>.
I'm happy with Ripple existing as a standalone or sub-project. In either
case, Apache Cordova will be able to consume and commit back to the project.
It's no secret that the purpose of Apache Cordova is to accelerate the Web
as a first-class application platform. As browsers mature and operating
systems embrace the Web, Apache Cordova can gradually step-aside. However,
that doesn't mean that the project will die off as browsers and operating
systems begin to offer the Web access to more APIs. Apache Cordova is a
source of app development education, best practices, and tools. Tools for
developing, packaging, and debugging Web applications across the wide range
of platforms. This is where projects such as Weinre and Ripple become
extremely valuable. They don't necessarily need to be under the Cordova
project, but they need to be accessible to the project and its community.
Michael
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Dan Silivestru
<da...@gmail.com>wrote:
> +1
>
> And am starting to lean towards Ripple not being a sub-project of Cordova
> just because of the different platforms that is support. The current
> product (http://github.com/blackberry/Ripple-UI) support WebWorks
> (handheld, PlayBook, and BB10), Cordova 2.0.0 and of course the mobile web
> (no APIs). There are forks out there for Tizen and WAC 2.0 which I think I
> would like to see pulled back into the project. It not being firmly tied to
> Cordova might help with that.
>
> Although, I think I'm also looking at the community here to help us sort
> out the best fit for Ripple.
>
> I also wanted to re-iterate Laurent's point about us being 100% committed
> to the development efforts for Ripple, this will definitely not be a code
> dump into Apache, we will continue our development efforts on it and if
> anything increase our efforts :-)
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dan Silivestru.
>
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Filip Maj <fi...@adobe.com> wrote:
>
> > I am agnostic on whether or not Ripple should be a Cordova sub-project. I
> > think it is more of a question of perception. What's important to me is
> > that it makes it into Apache in one form or another!
> >
> > On 7/24/12 6:15 PM, "Laurent Hasson" <lh...@rim.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Paul,
> > >
> > >Do you know if there is any intention for Tizen to support Cordova APIs?
> > >This is very interesting, and I suppose there might also be interest for
> > >FirefoxOS APIs?
> > >
> > >This would certainly put a new spin on Ripple and may go along Ross'
> > >initial comment about Ripple maybe being not just about Cordova. This
> has
> > >been my (limited) thinking so far, but there is certainly a great deal
> of
> > >opportunities if that type of extension makes sense.
> > >
> > >
> > >Thank You
> > >------------------------------------------------
> > >- LDH (Laurent Hasson) -
> > >- Technical Director, BlackBerry Web Platform -
> > >- Research In Motion -
> > >- Email: lhasson@rim.com -
> > >- Mobile: 646-460-7066 -
> > >- Twitter: @ldhasson -
> > >------------------------------------------------
> > >"Strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a
> > >system of government" - Dennis
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Paul Plaquette [mailto:paul.plaquette@intel.com]
> > >Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 5:26 AM
> > >To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of
> Cordova
> > >
> > >hi ,
> > >
> > >the Ripple source code is also the base for the tizen web simulator that
> > >is integrated in the tizen sdk [1]
> > >
> > >tizen web simulator is also available to open source community [2] on
> > >intel 01.org [3] web site.
> > >
> > >currently the idea is to add tizen web apis: specific tizen api, but
> > >also all standard apis that tizen is going to have from several sources
> > >(W3C, Khronos group etc...) - tizen documentation describes all this in
> > >details [4]
> > >
> > >may be something could be combined in adding cordova support in ripple?
> > >
> > >Paul
> > >
> > >[1] https://www.tizen.org/
> > >[2] https://01.org/web-simulator/about
> > >[3] https://01.org/
> > >[4] https://developer.tizen.org/documentation
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >Paul Plaquette
> > >Senior Software Engineer
> > >Open Source Technology Center
> > >Intel Corp.,Montpellier, France
> > >
> > >
> > >On 07/22/2012 12:14 AM, Filip Maj wrote:
> > >> I am very excited about this!
> > >>
> > >> The cordova suite of projects have never addressed emulation and my
> > >>go-to
> > >> has always been Ripple.
> > >>
> > >> If there is anything I can do to help please let me know.
> > >>
> > >> Mentors (Jukka?): other than setting up a repository, do you foresee
> any
> > >> issues with moving ahead with this? At the minimum I understand an
> audit
> > >> of the code and decoupling existing code from RIM-specific stuff is a
> > >> necessity, as well as a license audit (RAT tool), but, any other
> issues
> > >> you foresee or any recommendations/guidance on moving this forward
> that
> > >> our community could help with?
> > >>
> > >> On 7/20/12 4:20 PM, "Gord Tanner" <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> RIM has done a lot of work in Ripple to support the Cordova
> (PhoneGap)
> > >>> platform, now having almost full support for all of the platform
> APIs.
> > >>>
> > >>> We(RIM) believes that the natural home for Ripple is in the Apache
> > >>> Software
> > >>> Foundation as a sub-project of Cordova and we want to contribute
> > >>>Ripple to
> > >>> the ASF. However, this is the first time we are doing something like
> > >>>this
> > >>> and the entire company is focused on our BB10 delivery.
> > >>>
> > >>> We have been working very closely with the former Nitobi guys and
> will
> > >>> also
> > >>> work closely with the Cordova community. We hope to have the support
> > >>> needed
> > >>> in this community to help us find the best way to make this happen.
> > >>>
> > >>> If you are wondering what ripple is you can see the code here:
> > >>> https://github.com/blackberry/Ripple-UI
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >Intel Corporation SAS (French simplified joint stock company)
> > >Registered headquarters: "Les Montalets"- 2, rue de Paris,
> > >92196 Meudon Cedex, France
> > >Registration Number: 302 456 199 R.C.S. NANTERRE
> > >Capital: 4,572,000 Euros
> > >
> > >This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
> > >the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
> > >by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
> > >recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
> > >
> > >
> > >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential
> > >information, privileged material (including material protected by the
> > >solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute
> > >non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other than
> > >the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this
> > >transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete
> > >this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or
> > >reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not
> > >authorized and may be unlawful.
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Dan Silivestru
> +1 (519) 589-3624
>
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Dan Silivestru <da...@gmail.com>.
+1
And am starting to lean towards Ripple not being a sub-project of Cordova
just because of the different platforms that is support. The current
product (http://github.com/blackberry/Ripple-UI) support WebWorks
(handheld, PlayBook, and BB10), Cordova 2.0.0 and of course the mobile web
(no APIs). There are forks out there for Tizen and WAC 2.0 which I think I
would like to see pulled back into the project. It not being firmly tied to
Cordova might help with that.
Although, I think I'm also looking at the community here to help us sort
out the best fit for Ripple.
I also wanted to re-iterate Laurent's point about us being 100% committed
to the development efforts for Ripple, this will definitely not be a code
dump into Apache, we will continue our development efforts on it and if
anything increase our efforts :-)
Best regards,
Dan Silivestru.
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Filip Maj <fi...@adobe.com> wrote:
> I am agnostic on whether or not Ripple should be a Cordova sub-project. I
> think it is more of a question of perception. What's important to me is
> that it makes it into Apache in one form or another!
>
> On 7/24/12 6:15 PM, "Laurent Hasson" <lh...@rim.com> wrote:
>
> >Paul,
> >
> >Do you know if there is any intention for Tizen to support Cordova APIs?
> >This is very interesting, and I suppose there might also be interest for
> >FirefoxOS APIs?
> >
> >This would certainly put a new spin on Ripple and may go along Ross'
> >initial comment about Ripple maybe being not just about Cordova. This has
> >been my (limited) thinking so far, but there is certainly a great deal of
> >opportunities if that type of extension makes sense.
> >
> >
> >Thank You
> >------------------------------------------------
> >- LDH (Laurent Hasson) -
> >- Technical Director, BlackBerry Web Platform -
> >- Research In Motion -
> >- Email: lhasson@rim.com -
> >- Mobile: 646-460-7066 -
> >- Twitter: @ldhasson -
> >------------------------------------------------
> >"Strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a
> >system of government" - Dennis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Paul Plaquette [mailto:paul.plaquette@intel.com]
> >Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 5:26 AM
> >To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
> >
> >hi ,
> >
> >the Ripple source code is also the base for the tizen web simulator that
> >is integrated in the tizen sdk [1]
> >
> >tizen web simulator is also available to open source community [2] on
> >intel 01.org [3] web site.
> >
> >currently the idea is to add tizen web apis: specific tizen api, but
> >also all standard apis that tizen is going to have from several sources
> >(W3C, Khronos group etc...) - tizen documentation describes all this in
> >details [4]
> >
> >may be something could be combined in adding cordova support in ripple?
> >
> >Paul
> >
> >[1] https://www.tizen.org/
> >[2] https://01.org/web-simulator/about
> >[3] https://01.org/
> >[4] https://developer.tizen.org/documentation
> >
> >
> >--
> >Paul Plaquette
> >Senior Software Engineer
> >Open Source Technology Center
> >Intel Corp.,Montpellier, France
> >
> >
> >On 07/22/2012 12:14 AM, Filip Maj wrote:
> >> I am very excited about this!
> >>
> >> The cordova suite of projects have never addressed emulation and my
> >>go-to
> >> has always been Ripple.
> >>
> >> If there is anything I can do to help please let me know.
> >>
> >> Mentors (Jukka?): other than setting up a repository, do you foresee any
> >> issues with moving ahead with this? At the minimum I understand an audit
> >> of the code and decoupling existing code from RIM-specific stuff is a
> >> necessity, as well as a license audit (RAT tool), but, any other issues
> >> you foresee or any recommendations/guidance on moving this forward that
> >> our community could help with?
> >>
> >> On 7/20/12 4:20 PM, "Gord Tanner" <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> RIM has done a lot of work in Ripple to support the Cordova (PhoneGap)
> >>> platform, now having almost full support for all of the platform APIs.
> >>>
> >>> We(RIM) believes that the natural home for Ripple is in the Apache
> >>> Software
> >>> Foundation as a sub-project of Cordova and we want to contribute
> >>>Ripple to
> >>> the ASF. However, this is the first time we are doing something like
> >>>this
> >>> and the entire company is focused on our BB10 delivery.
> >>>
> >>> We have been working very closely with the former Nitobi guys and will
> >>> also
> >>> work closely with the Cordova community. We hope to have the support
> >>> needed
> >>> in this community to help us find the best way to make this happen.
> >>>
> >>> If you are wondering what ripple is you can see the code here:
> >>> https://github.com/blackberry/Ripple-UI
> >>
> >>
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Intel Corporation SAS (French simplified joint stock company)
> >Registered headquarters: "Les Montalets"- 2, rue de Paris,
> >92196 Meudon Cedex, France
> >Registration Number: 302 456 199 R.C.S. NANTERRE
> >Capital: 4,572,000 Euros
> >
> >This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
> >the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
> >by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
> >recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential
> >information, privileged material (including material protected by the
> >solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute
> >non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other than
> >the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this
> >transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete
> >this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or
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> >authorized and may be unlawful.
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--
Dan Silivestru
+1 (519) 589-3624
Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Dan Silivestru <da...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
Great to hear. I think we are leaning towards a TLP based on the
conversations here and the potential non-Cordova associations we've been
seeing.
We will review the list of sponsors and see if there's anyone we know
directly that can help us.
Thanks for all of the feedback here, feels like we're well underway :-)
Dan.
On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Tuesday, July 31, 2012, Ross Gardler wrote:
>
> > On 30 July 2012 22:18, Gord Tanner <gord@tinyhippos.com <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> > > Our main goal for Ripple being in the ASF is to try to build community
> > > around it and get the cordova / mobile web app developer bases behind
> it
> > > and able to contribute to it without the "This belongs to RIM" mindset
> we
> > > are getting now.
> >
> > That's a very good start ;-)
>
>
> +1
>
> The broader community goal is best served by being a separate podling.
> > The narrower Cordova goal might be better served by being a
> > sub-project and, as Jukka said, you can always spin-out of Cordova as
> > a TLP later.
>
>
> Or vice versa, if Ripple on its own doesn't end up attracting a community
> beyond that of Cordova, it's also possible to "spin-in" later to a Cordova
> subproject.
>
> Based on the discussion so far it sounds like Ripple has the makings of a
> great Apache project also on its own, especially with co-operation and some
> committer overlap with Cordova.
>
>
> > > This may be getting off topic now for the cordova mailing lists so who
> > do I
> > > talk to from ASF to start setting up the donation of Ripple?
> >
> > First off you need a Champion. Their role is to help guide you through
> > the proposal process which is described at [1]. The role of champion
> > is defined at [2]
>
>
> You'll also need some Apache mentors to help once you get started. I'd be
> happy to volunteer.
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
>
>
>
> > >
> > > Gord
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Ross Gardler
> > > <rg...@opendirective.com>wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 30 July 2012 16:56, Michael Brooks <mi...@michaelbrooks.ca>
> wrote:
> > >> > If Ripple was donated as a standalone project, then a shared
> > >> > general@mailing-list between Cordova and Ripple would be very nice.
> > >>
> > >> IMHO such lists don't (often) make sense. Jukka made the suggestion
> > >> using Hadoop as an example of a consortium of projects. However, there
> > >> is (to my knowledge - Jukka will correct me if I'm wrong) no such list
> > >> for Hadoop.
> > >>
> > >> What topics would need to be discussed on a general mailing list
> > >> between the two projects which could not be adequately carried out on
> > >> the more focused project list?
> > >>
> > >> Unless there is a very surprising answer to the above question, the
> > >> way I see it the options are...
> > >>
> > >> - Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova with all development on
> > >> cordova-dev (potential for too much non-cordova discussion) - example
> > >> lucene and friends
> > >>
> > >> - Ripple as a new podling with all development on ripple-dev and
> > >> cordova-dev (interested cordova and ripple devs cross-subscribe) -
> > >> example hadoop and friends
> > >>
> > >> Remember, this is only my opinion based on my observations of what
> > >> works in the ASF today - the ASF is a flexible place. Changes to old
> > >> approaches can be adopted when good reason to do so is presented.
> > >>
> > >> Ross
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Ross Gardler <
> > >> rgardler@opendirective.com>wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> On 30 July 2012 15:06, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> >> > Hi,
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:18 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >> >> I sometimes see cordova not as a specific platform (or set of
> > APIs)
> > >> but
> > >> >> as a leader
> > >> >> >> in the open mobile web. If we are able to step away from the
> > idea of
> > >> >> cordova being
> > >> >> >> a singular platform but the bleeding edge of mobile web r & d it
> > >> makes
> > >> >> sense to
> > >> >> >> have ripple be a part of that.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > A good example of how such a vision is being realized at the ASF
> is
> > >> >> > the Hadoop project that has given birth to a growing ecosystem of
> > >> >> > related cloud and big data projects at and around the ASF.
> Instead
> > of
> > >> >> > Hadoop hosting related projects like HBase, Pig, ZooKeeper, etc.
> as
> > >> >> > subprojects under a single PMC, it simply acts as a central focus
> > >> >> > point for a larger cluster of projects.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > I'd love to see Cordova increasingly position itself as such a
> > focus
> > >> >> > point for mobile web projects both within and outside the ASF.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> +1
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > One
> > >> >> > concrete idea towards such a goal could be to start a
> > general@mailing
> > >> >> > list as a shared forum like the one Hadoop has for discussions
> that
> > >> >> > reach beyond the boundaries of individual projects or codebases.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I'm not sure we're ready for that yet. What other projects would be
> > >> >> interested in this?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Possibly Wookie (W3C Widget engine), others?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Ross
> > >> >>
> > >> >> --
> > >> >> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> > >> >> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> > >> >> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
> > >> >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Ross Gardler (@rg
>
>
>
> --
> Jukka Zitting
>
--
Dan Silivestru
+1 (519) 589-3624
Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Dan Silivestru <da...@gmail.com>.
Hi Ross,
This is very much appreciated. Thank you so much. Gord and I will be
working on the Proposal today and we'll try to have the first draft ready
for next week (it will be all Gord since I'm away on vacation next week).
Will switch to email from now on so as to not spam the group.
Thanks,
Dan.
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 3:52 AM, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>wrote:
> I'm happy to champion too, if that would be acceptable to you. I don't have
> the cycles to mentor, but I'd I help hey you into the incubator that will
> free Jukka to focus on getting Cordova through the final steps while I
> focus on helping you with your proposal.
>
> Have a read through the resources I sent you and duo me a mail if you need
> help. First objective is a draft proposal.
>
> Ross
>
> From a mobile device - forgive errors and terseness
> On Aug 2, 2012 4:59 PM, "Gord Tanner" <go...@tinyhippos.com> wrote:
>
> > Wow!
> >
> > That would be amazing Jukka :)
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Jukka Zitting <jukka.zitting@gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, July 31, 2012, Ross Gardler wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 30 July 2012 22:18, Gord Tanner <gord@tinyhippos.com
> <javascript:;>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Our main goal for Ripple being in the ASF is to try to build
> > community
> > > > > around it and get the cordova / mobile web app developer bases
> behind
> > > it
> > > > > and able to contribute to it without the "This belongs to RIM"
> > mindset
> > > we
> > > > > are getting now.
> > > >
> > > > That's a very good start ;-)
> > >
> > >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > The broader community goal is best served by being a separate podling.
> > > > The narrower Cordova goal might be better served by being a
> > > > sub-project and, as Jukka said, you can always spin-out of Cordova as
> > > > a TLP later.
> > >
> > >
> > > Or vice versa, if Ripple on its own doesn't end up attracting a
> community
> > > beyond that of Cordova, it's also possible to "spin-in" later to a
> > Cordova
> > > subproject.
> > >
> > > Based on the discussion so far it sounds like Ripple has the makings
> of a
> > > great Apache project also on its own, especially with co-operation and
> > some
> > > committer overlap with Cordova.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > This may be getting off topic now for the cordova mailing lists so
> > who
> > > > do I
> > > > > talk to from ASF to start setting up the donation of Ripple?
> > > >
> > > > First off you need a Champion. Their role is to help guide you
> through
> > > > the proposal process which is described at [1]. The role of champion
> > > > is defined at [2]
> > >
> > >
> > > You'll also need some Apache mentors to help once you get started. I'd
> be
> > > happy to volunteer.
> > >
> > > BR,
> > >
> > > Jukka Zitting
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Gord
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Ross Gardler
> > > > > <rg...@opendirective.com>wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> On 30 July 2012 16:56, Michael Brooks <mi...@michaelbrooks.ca>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >> > If Ripple was donated as a standalone project, then a shared
> > > > >> > general@mailing-list between Cordova and Ripple would be very
> > nice.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> IMHO such lists don't (often) make sense. Jukka made the
> suggestion
> > > > >> using Hadoop as an example of a consortium of projects. However,
> > there
> > > > >> is (to my knowledge - Jukka will correct me if I'm wrong) no such
> > list
> > > > >> for Hadoop.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> What topics would need to be discussed on a general mailing list
> > > > >> between the two projects which could not be adequately carried out
> > on
> > > > >> the more focused project list?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Unless there is a very surprising answer to the above question,
> the
> > > > >> way I see it the options are...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> - Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova with all development on
> > > > >> cordova-dev (potential for too much non-cordova discussion) -
> > example
> > > > >> lucene and friends
> > > > >>
> > > > >> - Ripple as a new podling with all development on ripple-dev and
> > > > >> cordova-dev (interested cordova and ripple devs cross-subscribe) -
> > > > >> example hadoop and friends
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Remember, this is only my opinion based on my observations of what
> > > > >> works in the ASF today - the ASF is a flexible place. Changes to
> old
> > > > >> approaches can be adopted when good reason to do so is presented.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Ross
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Ross Gardler <
> > > > >> rgardler@opendirective.com>wrote:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >> On 30 July 2012 15:06, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >> >> > Hi,
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:18 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> >> >> I sometimes see cordova not as a specific platform (or set
> of
> > > > APIs)
> > > > >> but
> > > > >> >> as a leader
> > > > >> >> >> in the open mobile web. If we are able to step away from
> the
> > > > idea of
> > > > >> >> cordova being
> > > > >> >> >> a singular platform but the bleeding edge of mobile web r &
> d
> > it
> > > > >> makes
> > > > >> >> sense to
> > > > >> >> >> have ripple be a part of that.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > A good example of how such a vision is being realized at the
> > ASF
> > > is
> > > > >> >> > the Hadoop project that has given birth to a growing
> ecosystem
> > of
> > > > >> >> > related cloud and big data projects at and around the ASF.
> > > Instead
> > > > of
> > > > >> >> > Hadoop hosting related projects like HBase, Pig, ZooKeeper,
> > etc.
> > > as
> > > > >> >> > subprojects under a single PMC, it simply acts as a central
> > focus
> > > > >> >> > point for a larger cluster of projects.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > I'd love to see Cordova increasingly position itself as such
> a
> > > > focus
> > > > >> >> > point for mobile web projects both within and outside the
> ASF.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> +1
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> > One
> > > > >> >> > concrete idea towards such a goal could be to start a
> > > > general@mailing
> > > > >> >> > list as a shared forum like the one Hadoop has for
> discussions
> > > that
> > > > >> >> > reach beyond the boundaries of individual projects or
> > codebases.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> I'm not sure we're ready for that yet. What other projects
> would
> > be
> > > > >> >> interested in this?
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> Possibly Wookie (W3C Widget engine), others?
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> Ross
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> --
> > > > >> >> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> > > > >> >> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> > > > >> >> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> Ross Gardler (@rg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jukka Zitting
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Gord Tanner
> > Senior Developer / Code Poet
> > tinyHippos Inc.
> > @tinyhippos
> >
>
--
Dan Silivestru
+1 (519) 589-3624
Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
I'm happy to champion too, if that would be acceptable to you. I don't have
the cycles to mentor, but I'd I help hey you into the incubator that will
free Jukka to focus on getting Cordova through the final steps while I
focus on helping you with your proposal.
Have a read through the resources I sent you and duo me a mail if you need
help. First objective is a draft proposal.
Ross
>From a mobile device - forgive errors and terseness
On Aug 2, 2012 4:59 PM, "Gord Tanner" <go...@tinyhippos.com> wrote:
> Wow!
>
> That would be amazing Jukka :)
>
> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Jukka Zitting <jukka.zitting@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Tuesday, July 31, 2012, Ross Gardler wrote:
> >
> > > On 30 July 2012 22:18, Gord Tanner <gord@tinyhippos.com<javascript:;>>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Our main goal for Ripple being in the ASF is to try to build
> community
> > > > around it and get the cordova / mobile web app developer bases behind
> > it
> > > > and able to contribute to it without the "This belongs to RIM"
> mindset
> > we
> > > > are getting now.
> > >
> > > That's a very good start ;-)
> >
> >
> > +1
> >
> > The broader community goal is best served by being a separate podling.
> > > The narrower Cordova goal might be better served by being a
> > > sub-project and, as Jukka said, you can always spin-out of Cordova as
> > > a TLP later.
> >
> >
> > Or vice versa, if Ripple on its own doesn't end up attracting a community
> > beyond that of Cordova, it's also possible to "spin-in" later to a
> Cordova
> > subproject.
> >
> > Based on the discussion so far it sounds like Ripple has the makings of a
> > great Apache project also on its own, especially with co-operation and
> some
> > committer overlap with Cordova.
> >
> >
> > > > This may be getting off topic now for the cordova mailing lists so
> who
> > > do I
> > > > talk to from ASF to start setting up the donation of Ripple?
> > >
> > > First off you need a Champion. Their role is to help guide you through
> > > the proposal process which is described at [1]. The role of champion
> > > is defined at [2]
> >
> >
> > You'll also need some Apache mentors to help once you get started. I'd be
> > happy to volunteer.
> >
> > BR,
> >
> > Jukka Zitting
> >
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > Gord
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Ross Gardler
> > > > <rg...@opendirective.com>wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On 30 July 2012 16:56, Michael Brooks <mi...@michaelbrooks.ca>
> > wrote:
> > > >> > If Ripple was donated as a standalone project, then a shared
> > > >> > general@mailing-list between Cordova and Ripple would be very
> nice.
> > > >>
> > > >> IMHO such lists don't (often) make sense. Jukka made the suggestion
> > > >> using Hadoop as an example of a consortium of projects. However,
> there
> > > >> is (to my knowledge - Jukka will correct me if I'm wrong) no such
> list
> > > >> for Hadoop.
> > > >>
> > > >> What topics would need to be discussed on a general mailing list
> > > >> between the two projects which could not be adequately carried out
> on
> > > >> the more focused project list?
> > > >>
> > > >> Unless there is a very surprising answer to the above question, the
> > > >> way I see it the options are...
> > > >>
> > > >> - Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova with all development on
> > > >> cordova-dev (potential for too much non-cordova discussion) -
> example
> > > >> lucene and friends
> > > >>
> > > >> - Ripple as a new podling with all development on ripple-dev and
> > > >> cordova-dev (interested cordova and ripple devs cross-subscribe) -
> > > >> example hadoop and friends
> > > >>
> > > >> Remember, this is only my opinion based on my observations of what
> > > >> works in the ASF today - the ASF is a flexible place. Changes to old
> > > >> approaches can be adopted when good reason to do so is presented.
> > > >>
> > > >> Ross
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Ross Gardler <
> > > >> rgardler@opendirective.com>wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> On 30 July 2012 15:06, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >> >> > Hi,
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:18 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> >> I sometimes see cordova not as a specific platform (or set of
> > > APIs)
> > > >> but
> > > >> >> as a leader
> > > >> >> >> in the open mobile web. If we are able to step away from the
> > > idea of
> > > >> >> cordova being
> > > >> >> >> a singular platform but the bleeding edge of mobile web r & d
> it
> > > >> makes
> > > >> >> sense to
> > > >> >> >> have ripple be a part of that.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > A good example of how such a vision is being realized at the
> ASF
> > is
> > > >> >> > the Hadoop project that has given birth to a growing ecosystem
> of
> > > >> >> > related cloud and big data projects at and around the ASF.
> > Instead
> > > of
> > > >> >> > Hadoop hosting related projects like HBase, Pig, ZooKeeper,
> etc.
> > as
> > > >> >> > subprojects under a single PMC, it simply acts as a central
> focus
> > > >> >> > point for a larger cluster of projects.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > I'd love to see Cordova increasingly position itself as such a
> > > focus
> > > >> >> > point for mobile web projects both within and outside the ASF.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> +1
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> > One
> > > >> >> > concrete idea towards such a goal could be to start a
> > > general@mailing
> > > >> >> > list as a shared forum like the one Hadoop has for discussions
> > that
> > > >> >> > reach beyond the boundaries of individual projects or
> codebases.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> I'm not sure we're ready for that yet. What other projects would
> be
> > > >> >> interested in this?
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Possibly Wookie (W3C Widget engine), others?
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Ross
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> --
> > > >> >> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> > > >> >> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> > > >> >> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
> > > >> >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Ross Gardler (@rg
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jukka Zitting
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Gord Tanner
> Senior Developer / Code Poet
> tinyHippos Inc.
> @tinyhippos
>
Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Gord Tanner <go...@tinyhippos.com>.
Wow!
That would be amazing Jukka :)
On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Tuesday, July 31, 2012, Ross Gardler wrote:
>
> > On 30 July 2012 22:18, Gord Tanner <gord@tinyhippos.com <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> > > Our main goal for Ripple being in the ASF is to try to build community
> > > around it and get the cordova / mobile web app developer bases behind
> it
> > > and able to contribute to it without the "This belongs to RIM" mindset
> we
> > > are getting now.
> >
> > That's a very good start ;-)
>
>
> +1
>
> The broader community goal is best served by being a separate podling.
> > The narrower Cordova goal might be better served by being a
> > sub-project and, as Jukka said, you can always spin-out of Cordova as
> > a TLP later.
>
>
> Or vice versa, if Ripple on its own doesn't end up attracting a community
> beyond that of Cordova, it's also possible to "spin-in" later to a Cordova
> subproject.
>
> Based on the discussion so far it sounds like Ripple has the makings of a
> great Apache project also on its own, especially with co-operation and some
> committer overlap with Cordova.
>
>
> > > This may be getting off topic now for the cordova mailing lists so who
> > do I
> > > talk to from ASF to start setting up the donation of Ripple?
> >
> > First off you need a Champion. Their role is to help guide you through
> > the proposal process which is described at [1]. The role of champion
> > is defined at [2]
>
>
> You'll also need some Apache mentors to help once you get started. I'd be
> happy to volunteer.
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
>
>
>
> > >
> > > Gord
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Ross Gardler
> > > <rg...@opendirective.com>wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 30 July 2012 16:56, Michael Brooks <mi...@michaelbrooks.ca>
> wrote:
> > >> > If Ripple was donated as a standalone project, then a shared
> > >> > general@mailing-list between Cordova and Ripple would be very nice.
> > >>
> > >> IMHO such lists don't (often) make sense. Jukka made the suggestion
> > >> using Hadoop as an example of a consortium of projects. However, there
> > >> is (to my knowledge - Jukka will correct me if I'm wrong) no such list
> > >> for Hadoop.
> > >>
> > >> What topics would need to be discussed on a general mailing list
> > >> between the two projects which could not be adequately carried out on
> > >> the more focused project list?
> > >>
> > >> Unless there is a very surprising answer to the above question, the
> > >> way I see it the options are...
> > >>
> > >> - Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova with all development on
> > >> cordova-dev (potential for too much non-cordova discussion) - example
> > >> lucene and friends
> > >>
> > >> - Ripple as a new podling with all development on ripple-dev and
> > >> cordova-dev (interested cordova and ripple devs cross-subscribe) -
> > >> example hadoop and friends
> > >>
> > >> Remember, this is only my opinion based on my observations of what
> > >> works in the ASF today - the ASF is a flexible place. Changes to old
> > >> approaches can be adopted when good reason to do so is presented.
> > >>
> > >> Ross
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Ross Gardler <
> > >> rgardler@opendirective.com>wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> On 30 July 2012 15:06, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> >> > Hi,
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:18 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >> >> I sometimes see cordova not as a specific platform (or set of
> > APIs)
> > >> but
> > >> >> as a leader
> > >> >> >> in the open mobile web. If we are able to step away from the
> > idea of
> > >> >> cordova being
> > >> >> >> a singular platform but the bleeding edge of mobile web r & d it
> > >> makes
> > >> >> sense to
> > >> >> >> have ripple be a part of that.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > A good example of how such a vision is being realized at the ASF
> is
> > >> >> > the Hadoop project that has given birth to a growing ecosystem of
> > >> >> > related cloud and big data projects at and around the ASF.
> Instead
> > of
> > >> >> > Hadoop hosting related projects like HBase, Pig, ZooKeeper, etc.
> as
> > >> >> > subprojects under a single PMC, it simply acts as a central focus
> > >> >> > point for a larger cluster of projects.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > I'd love to see Cordova increasingly position itself as such a
> > focus
> > >> >> > point for mobile web projects both within and outside the ASF.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> +1
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > One
> > >> >> > concrete idea towards such a goal could be to start a
> > general@mailing
> > >> >> > list as a shared forum like the one Hadoop has for discussions
> that
> > >> >> > reach beyond the boundaries of individual projects or codebases.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I'm not sure we're ready for that yet. What other projects would be
> > >> >> interested in this?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Possibly Wookie (W3C Widget engine), others?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Ross
> > >> >>
> > >> >> --
> > >> >> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> > >> >> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> > >> >> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
> > >> >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Ross Gardler (@rg
>
>
>
> --
> Jukka Zitting
>
--
Gord Tanner
Senior Developer / Code Poet
tinyHippos Inc.
@tinyhippos
Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Tuesday, July 31, 2012, Ross Gardler wrote:
> On 30 July 2012 22:18, Gord Tanner <gord@tinyhippos.com <javascript:;>>
> wrote:
> > Our main goal for Ripple being in the ASF is to try to build community
> > around it and get the cordova / mobile web app developer bases behind it
> > and able to contribute to it without the "This belongs to RIM" mindset we
> > are getting now.
>
> That's a very good start ;-)
+1
The broader community goal is best served by being a separate podling.
> The narrower Cordova goal might be better served by being a
> sub-project and, as Jukka said, you can always spin-out of Cordova as
> a TLP later.
Or vice versa, if Ripple on its own doesn't end up attracting a community
beyond that of Cordova, it's also possible to "spin-in" later to a Cordova
subproject.
Based on the discussion so far it sounds like Ripple has the makings of a
great Apache project also on its own, especially with co-operation and some
committer overlap with Cordova.
> > This may be getting off topic now for the cordova mailing lists so who
> do I
> > talk to from ASF to start setting up the donation of Ripple?
>
> First off you need a Champion. Their role is to help guide you through
> the proposal process which is described at [1]. The role of champion
> is defined at [2]
You'll also need some Apache mentors to help once you get started. I'd be
happy to volunteer.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
> >
> > Gord
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Ross Gardler
> > <rg...@opendirective.com>wrote:
> >
> >> On 30 July 2012 16:56, Michael Brooks <mi...@michaelbrooks.ca> wrote:
> >> > If Ripple was donated as a standalone project, then a shared
> >> > general@mailing-list between Cordova and Ripple would be very nice.
> >>
> >> IMHO such lists don't (often) make sense. Jukka made the suggestion
> >> using Hadoop as an example of a consortium of projects. However, there
> >> is (to my knowledge - Jukka will correct me if I'm wrong) no such list
> >> for Hadoop.
> >>
> >> What topics would need to be discussed on a general mailing list
> >> between the two projects which could not be adequately carried out on
> >> the more focused project list?
> >>
> >> Unless there is a very surprising answer to the above question, the
> >> way I see it the options are...
> >>
> >> - Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova with all development on
> >> cordova-dev (potential for too much non-cordova discussion) - example
> >> lucene and friends
> >>
> >> - Ripple as a new podling with all development on ripple-dev and
> >> cordova-dev (interested cordova and ripple devs cross-subscribe) -
> >> example hadoop and friends
> >>
> >> Remember, this is only my opinion based on my observations of what
> >> works in the ASF today - the ASF is a flexible place. Changes to old
> >> approaches can be adopted when good reason to do so is presented.
> >>
> >> Ross
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Ross Gardler <
> >> rgardler@opendirective.com>wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 30 July 2012 15:06, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >> > Hi,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:18 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> I sometimes see cordova not as a specific platform (or set of
> APIs)
> >> but
> >> >> as a leader
> >> >> >> in the open mobile web. If we are able to step away from the
> idea of
> >> >> cordova being
> >> >> >> a singular platform but the bleeding edge of mobile web r & d it
> >> makes
> >> >> sense to
> >> >> >> have ripple be a part of that.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > A good example of how such a vision is being realized at the ASF is
> >> >> > the Hadoop project that has given birth to a growing ecosystem of
> >> >> > related cloud and big data projects at and around the ASF. Instead
> of
> >> >> > Hadoop hosting related projects like HBase, Pig, ZooKeeper, etc. as
> >> >> > subprojects under a single PMC, it simply acts as a central focus
> >> >> > point for a larger cluster of projects.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I'd love to see Cordova increasingly position itself as such a
> focus
> >> >> > point for mobile web projects both within and outside the ASF.
> >> >>
> >> >> +1
> >> >>
> >> >> > One
> >> >> > concrete idea towards such a goal could be to start a
> general@mailing
> >> >> > list as a shared forum like the one Hadoop has for discussions that
> >> >> > reach beyond the boundaries of individual projects or codebases.
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm not sure we're ready for that yet. What other projects would be
> >> >> interested in this?
> >> >>
> >> >> Possibly Wookie (W3C Widget engine), others?
> >> >>
> >> >> Ross
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> >> >> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> >> >> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
> >> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ross Gardler (@rg
--
Jukka Zitting
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 30 July 2012 22:18, Gord Tanner <go...@tinyhippos.com> wrote:
> What are the community requirements for ASF?
Entry into the incubator has no requirements other than a genuine
desire to build a diverse community.
Exit requires that you have demonstrated that the project environment
is either diverse or is run in such a way as to encourage diversity.
How this is measured varies from person to person. Some people like to
see a minimum number of contributors from different employers. Many
others just want to be convinced the project is a meritocracy. In
general as long as you have demonstrated an ability to identify,
welcome and assist potential new contributors things are good. Of
course, there are other more practical graduation requirements related
to licenses and so on.
> Ripple right now has a rather small community behind it (3 people core at
> RIM) and a few forks out in the wild that haven't been merged back in yet.
A focus on the appropriate forks would be the kind of thing we'd be
looking at. The ASF does not interfere with the technical objectives
of the project, but where forks exist we'd want to see a proper
evaluation and, if appropriate, an attempt to integrate the effort
into the core project.
> Our main goal for Ripple being in the ASF is to try to build community
> around it and get the cordova / mobile web app developer bases behind it
> and able to contribute to it without the "This belongs to RIM" mindset we
> are getting now.
That's a very good start ;-)
The broader community goal is best served by being a separate podling.
The narrower Cordova goal might be better served by being a
sub-project and, as Jukka said, you can always spin-out of Cordova as
a TLP later.
I've snipped the bit where you conclude it might be better go be a
separate project, but if any Cordova contributors feel they need to
make an additional case for being a sub-project now is the time.
...
> This may be getting off topic now for the cordova mailing lists so who do I
> talk to from ASF to start setting up the donation of Ripple?
First off you need a Champion. Their role is to help guide you through
the proposal process which is described at [1]. The role of champion
is defined at [2]
A champion needs to be an Officer or Member of the foundation.
Officers are listed at [3] and members interested in the incubator
hang around the general@incubator.apache.org list. If you already have
a relationship with any of these people then approach them directly.
If you don't have anyone in mind then drop me a private mail and I'll
think of some potential candidates (private because the candidates
might not be interested rather than because it is sensitive).
Ross
[1] http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html
[2] http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Roles_and_Responsibilities.html
[3] http://www.apache.org/foundation/index.html
>
> Gord
>
> On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Ross Gardler
> <rg...@opendirective.com>wrote:
>
>> On 30 July 2012 16:56, Michael Brooks <mi...@michaelbrooks.ca> wrote:
>> > If Ripple was donated as a standalone project, then a shared
>> > general@mailing-list between Cordova and Ripple would be very nice.
>>
>> IMHO such lists don't (often) make sense. Jukka made the suggestion
>> using Hadoop as an example of a consortium of projects. However, there
>> is (to my knowledge - Jukka will correct me if I'm wrong) no such list
>> for Hadoop.
>>
>> What topics would need to be discussed on a general mailing list
>> between the two projects which could not be adequately carried out on
>> the more focused project list?
>>
>> Unless there is a very surprising answer to the above question, the
>> way I see it the options are...
>>
>> - Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova with all development on
>> cordova-dev (potential for too much non-cordova discussion) - example
>> lucene and friends
>>
>> - Ripple as a new podling with all development on ripple-dev and
>> cordova-dev (interested cordova and ripple devs cross-subscribe) -
>> example hadoop and friends
>>
>> Remember, this is only my opinion based on my observations of what
>> works in the ASF today - the ASF is a flexible place. Changes to old
>> approaches can be adopted when good reason to do so is presented.
>>
>> Ross
>>
>>
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Ross Gardler <
>> rgardler@opendirective.com>wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 30 July 2012 15:06, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Hi,
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:18 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> I sometimes see cordova not as a specific platform (or set of APIs)
>> but
>> >> as a leader
>> >> >> in the open mobile web. If we are able to step away from the idea of
>> >> cordova being
>> >> >> a singular platform but the bleeding edge of mobile web r & d it
>> makes
>> >> sense to
>> >> >> have ripple be a part of that.
>> >> >
>> >> > A good example of how such a vision is being realized at the ASF is
>> >> > the Hadoop project that has given birth to a growing ecosystem of
>> >> > related cloud and big data projects at and around the ASF. Instead of
>> >> > Hadoop hosting related projects like HBase, Pig, ZooKeeper, etc. as
>> >> > subprojects under a single PMC, it simply acts as a central focus
>> >> > point for a larger cluster of projects.
>> >> >
>> >> > I'd love to see Cordova increasingly position itself as such a focus
>> >> > point for mobile web projects both within and outside the ASF.
>> >>
>> >> +1
>> >>
>> >> > One
>> >> > concrete idea towards such a goal could be to start a general@mailing
>> >> > list as a shared forum like the one Hadoop has for discussions that
>> >> > reach beyond the boundaries of individual projects or codebases.
>> >>
>> >> I'm not sure we're ready for that yet. What other projects would be
>> >> interested in this?
>> >>
>> >> Possibly Wookie (W3C Widget engine), others?
>> >>
>> >> Ross
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>> >> Programme Leader (Open Development)
>> >> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>> Programme Leader (Open Development)
>> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Gord Tanner
> Senior Developer / Code Poet
> tinyHippos Inc.
> @tinyhippos
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Gord Tanner <go...@tinyhippos.com>.
What are the community requirements for ASF?
Ripple right now has a rather small community behind it (3 people core at
RIM) and a few forks out in the wild that haven't been merged back in yet.
Our main goal for Ripple being in the ASF is to try to build community
around it and get the cordova / mobile web app developer bases behind it
and able to contribute to it without the "This belongs to RIM" mindset we
are getting now.
I see so many similarities between Ripple and Winre, both have nothing to
do with Cordova proper but the development communities are intimately tied
together.
I don't see the topics cross-cutting as much, but in order to properly keep
up on development of ripple one has to follow the cordova mailing list
closely. Basically no message in the cordova mailing list is irrelevant to
the development of Ripple but some discussion of Ripple will not apply to
Cordova.
With that being said I think a separate project and mailing list with a
hidden requirement of following the cordova-dev mailing list would be the
best solution. Any cross cutting topics could be brought up in
the appropriate mailing lists.
This may be getting off topic now for the cordova mailing lists so who do I
talk to from ASF to start setting up the donation of Ripple?
Gord
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Ross Gardler
<rg...@opendirective.com>wrote:
> On 30 July 2012 16:56, Michael Brooks <mi...@michaelbrooks.ca> wrote:
> > If Ripple was donated as a standalone project, then a shared
> > general@mailing-list between Cordova and Ripple would be very nice.
>
> IMHO such lists don't (often) make sense. Jukka made the suggestion
> using Hadoop as an example of a consortium of projects. However, there
> is (to my knowledge - Jukka will correct me if I'm wrong) no such list
> for Hadoop.
>
> What topics would need to be discussed on a general mailing list
> between the two projects which could not be adequately carried out on
> the more focused project list?
>
> Unless there is a very surprising answer to the above question, the
> way I see it the options are...
>
> - Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova with all development on
> cordova-dev (potential for too much non-cordova discussion) - example
> lucene and friends
>
> - Ripple as a new podling with all development on ripple-dev and
> cordova-dev (interested cordova and ripple devs cross-subscribe) -
> example hadoop and friends
>
> Remember, this is only my opinion based on my observations of what
> works in the ASF today - the ASF is a flexible place. Changes to old
> approaches can be adopted when good reason to do so is presented.
>
> Ross
>
>
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Ross Gardler <
> rgardler@opendirective.com>wrote:
> >
> >> On 30 July 2012 15:06, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:18 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> I sometimes see cordova not as a specific platform (or set of APIs)
> but
> >> as a leader
> >> >> in the open mobile web. If we are able to step away from the idea of
> >> cordova being
> >> >> a singular platform but the bleeding edge of mobile web r & d it
> makes
> >> sense to
> >> >> have ripple be a part of that.
> >> >
> >> > A good example of how such a vision is being realized at the ASF is
> >> > the Hadoop project that has given birth to a growing ecosystem of
> >> > related cloud and big data projects at and around the ASF. Instead of
> >> > Hadoop hosting related projects like HBase, Pig, ZooKeeper, etc. as
> >> > subprojects under a single PMC, it simply acts as a central focus
> >> > point for a larger cluster of projects.
> >> >
> >> > I'd love to see Cordova increasingly position itself as such a focus
> >> > point for mobile web projects both within and outside the ASF.
> >>
> >> +1
> >>
> >> > One
> >> > concrete idea towards such a goal could be to start a general@mailing
> >> > list as a shared forum like the one Hadoop has for discussions that
> >> > reach beyond the boundaries of individual projects or codebases.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure we're ready for that yet. What other projects would be
> >> interested in this?
> >>
> >> Possibly Wookie (W3C Widget engine), others?
> >>
> >> Ross
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> >> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> >> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
> >>
>
>
>
> --
> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>
--
Gord Tanner
Senior Developer / Code Poet
tinyHippos Inc.
@tinyhippos
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 30 July 2012 16:56, Michael Brooks <mi...@michaelbrooks.ca> wrote:
> If Ripple was donated as a standalone project, then a shared
> general@mailing-list between Cordova and Ripple would be very nice.
IMHO such lists don't (often) make sense. Jukka made the suggestion
using Hadoop as an example of a consortium of projects. However, there
is (to my knowledge - Jukka will correct me if I'm wrong) no such list
for Hadoop.
What topics would need to be discussed on a general mailing list
between the two projects which could not be adequately carried out on
the more focused project list?
Unless there is a very surprising answer to the above question, the
way I see it the options are...
- Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova with all development on
cordova-dev (potential for too much non-cordova discussion) - example
lucene and friends
- Ripple as a new podling with all development on ripple-dev and
cordova-dev (interested cordova and ripple devs cross-subscribe) -
example hadoop and friends
Remember, this is only my opinion based on my observations of what
works in the ASF today - the ASF is a flexible place. Changes to old
approaches can be adopted when good reason to do so is presented.
Ross
>
> On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>wrote:
>
>> On 30 July 2012 15:06, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:18 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> I sometimes see cordova not as a specific platform (or set of APIs) but
>> as a leader
>> >> in the open mobile web. If we are able to step away from the idea of
>> cordova being
>> >> a singular platform but the bleeding edge of mobile web r & d it makes
>> sense to
>> >> have ripple be a part of that.
>> >
>> > A good example of how such a vision is being realized at the ASF is
>> > the Hadoop project that has given birth to a growing ecosystem of
>> > related cloud and big data projects at and around the ASF. Instead of
>> > Hadoop hosting related projects like HBase, Pig, ZooKeeper, etc. as
>> > subprojects under a single PMC, it simply acts as a central focus
>> > point for a larger cluster of projects.
>> >
>> > I'd love to see Cordova increasingly position itself as such a focus
>> > point for mobile web projects both within and outside the ASF.
>>
>> +1
>>
>> > One
>> > concrete idea towards such a goal could be to start a general@ mailing
>> > list as a shared forum like the one Hadoop has for discussions that
>> > reach beyond the boundaries of individual projects or codebases.
>>
>> I'm not sure we're ready for that yet. What other projects would be
>> interested in this?
>>
>> Possibly Wookie (W3C Widget engine), others?
>>
>> Ross
>>
>> --
>> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>> Programme Leader (Open Development)
>> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>>
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Michael Brooks <mi...@michaelbrooks.ca>.
If Ripple was donated as a standalone project, then a shared
general@mailing-list between Cordova and Ripple would be very nice.
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>wrote:
> On 30 July 2012 15:06, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:18 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I sometimes see cordova not as a specific platform (or set of APIs) but
> as a leader
> >> in the open mobile web. If we are able to step away from the idea of
> cordova being
> >> a singular platform but the bleeding edge of mobile web r & d it makes
> sense to
> >> have ripple be a part of that.
> >
> > A good example of how such a vision is being realized at the ASF is
> > the Hadoop project that has given birth to a growing ecosystem of
> > related cloud and big data projects at and around the ASF. Instead of
> > Hadoop hosting related projects like HBase, Pig, ZooKeeper, etc. as
> > subprojects under a single PMC, it simply acts as a central focus
> > point for a larger cluster of projects.
> >
> > I'd love to see Cordova increasingly position itself as such a focus
> > point for mobile web projects both within and outside the ASF.
>
> +1
>
> > One
> > concrete idea towards such a goal could be to start a general@ mailing
> > list as a shared forum like the one Hadoop has for discussions that
> > reach beyond the boundaries of individual projects or codebases.
>
> I'm not sure we're ready for that yet. What other projects would be
> interested in this?
>
> Possibly Wookie (W3C Widget engine), others?
>
> Ross
>
> --
> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 30 July 2012 15:06, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:18 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I sometimes see cordova not as a specific platform (or set of APIs) but as a leader
>> in the open mobile web. If we are able to step away from the idea of cordova being
>> a singular platform but the bleeding edge of mobile web r & d it makes sense to
>> have ripple be a part of that.
>
> A good example of how such a vision is being realized at the ASF is
> the Hadoop project that has given birth to a growing ecosystem of
> related cloud and big data projects at and around the ASF. Instead of
> Hadoop hosting related projects like HBase, Pig, ZooKeeper, etc. as
> subprojects under a single PMC, it simply acts as a central focus
> point for a larger cluster of projects.
>
> I'd love to see Cordova increasingly position itself as such a focus
> point for mobile web projects both within and outside the ASF.
+1
> One
> concrete idea towards such a goal could be to start a general@ mailing
> list as a shared forum like the one Hadoop has for discussions that
> reach beyond the boundaries of individual projects or codebases.
I'm not sure we're ready for that yet. What other projects would be
interested in this?
Possibly Wookie (W3C Widget engine), others?
Ross
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:18 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I sometimes see cordova not as a specific platform (or set of APIs) but as a leader
> in the open mobile web. If we are able to step away from the idea of cordova being
> a singular platform but the bleeding edge of mobile web r & d it makes sense to
> have ripple be a part of that.
A good example of how such a vision is being realized at the ASF is
the Hadoop project that has given birth to a growing ecosystem of
related cloud and big data projects at and around the ASF. Instead of
Hadoop hosting related projects like HBase, Pig, ZooKeeper, etc. as
subprojects under a single PMC, it simply acts as a central focus
point for a larger cluster of projects.
I'd love to see Cordova increasingly position itself as such a focus
point for mobile web projects both within and outside the ASF. One
concrete idea towards such a goal could be to start a general@ mailing
list as a shared forum like the one Hadoop has for discussions that
reach beyond the boundaries of individual projects or codebases.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 30 July 2012 14:53, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:58 PM, Ross Gardler
> <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 26, 2012 9:29 PM, "Filip Maj" <fi...@adobe.com> wrote:
>>> Ross, I would love to become more familiar with the specific reasoning,
>>> when you have time to share
>>
>> I figured I wouldn't get away with that one ;-)
>>
>> I'll collect some resources in the next few days (unless Jukka can recall a
>> useful existing document describing the history of Jakarta)
>
> I think much of the related history is spread across multiple mailing
> lists, some private, and I don't recall any good postmortem having
> been written. Basically the problem in Jakarta and some other
> "umbrella" projects in Apache has been that the PMC that's supposed to
> oversee what's going on in a project simply doesn't scale up to
> multiple active subprojects. Echoes of this dilemma can be seen in the
> Jakarta PMC restructuring draft [1] from 2003/4. See also the Jakarta
> board reports and especially the related comments by the ASF board for
> more background.
Thanks Jukka (thanks also for making this bubble to the top of my
inbox again)...
I've not collected resources on this yet, but interested parties could
look at one of my old slide-decks [2] specifically slides 14-19. There
is very little detail here but what is there provides some context for
Jukka's comments above.
Feel free to fire questions at me (us?) relating to this. Like Jukka
says it's never really been documented (clearly documenting "failure"
points is always difficult as there are so many conflicting views).
Ross
[1] http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/JakartaPMCPropsedChanges
[2] http://www.slideshare.net/bosc2010/gardler-bosc2010-communitydevelopmentattheasf
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:58 PM, Ross Gardler
<rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> On Jul 26, 2012 9:29 PM, "Filip Maj" <fi...@adobe.com> wrote:
>> Ross, I would love to become more familiar with the specific reasoning,
>> when you have time to share
>
> I figured I wouldn't get away with that one ;-)
>
> I'll collect some resources in the next few days (unless Jukka can recall a
> useful existing document describing the history of Jakarta)
I think much of the related history is spread across multiple mailing
lists, some private, and I don't recall any good postmortem having
been written. Basically the problem in Jakarta and some other
"umbrella" projects in Apache has been that the PMC that's supposed to
oversee what's going on in a project simply doesn't scale up to
multiple active subprojects. Echoes of this dilemma can be seen in the
Jakarta PMC restructuring draft [1] from 2003/4. See also the Jakarta
board reports and especially the related comments by the ASF board for
more background.
[1] http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/JakartaPMCPropsedChanges
BR,
Jukka Zitting
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On Jul 26, 2012 9:29 PM, "Filip Maj" <fi...@adobe.com> wrote:
>
> Ross, I would love to become more familiar with the specific reasoning,
> when you have time to share
I figured I wouldn't get away with that one ;-)
I'll collect some resources in the next few days (unless Jukka can recall a
useful existing document describing the history of Jakarta)
Ross
>
> On 7/26/12 11:49 AM, "Brian LeRoux" <b...@brian.io> wrote:
>
> >I think Ripple as a stand alone is probably the best place for it
> >conceptually. From an infrastructure standpoint there is so much
> >overlap between the projects its seems inefficient so its really the
> >only place I'm having difficulty reconciling. If Ripple does go TLP
> >then it has to have all the git repo, issue tracker, wiki, website,
> >and mailing list ceremony that we kinda already enjoy in this space.
> >That said, having all that stuff decoupled is also not a bad thing at
> >all.
> >
> >Ultimately, I'm very happy to see the code joining us at Apache and
> >whatever choice the RIM creators/committers/contributors decide we
> >support!
> >
> >
> >On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Ross Gardler
> ><rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> >> Whilst Cordova can see idle in any light or likes, from the ASF
> >>perspective
> >> it is just a project. The ASF is the umbrella organisation and it
> >>resists
> >> the idea of projects becoming umbrellas. There are good, community
> >>focused
> >> reasons for this. Reasons that come from practical experiences within
> >>this
> >> foundation. Unfortunately I'm on a mobile so providing references right
> >>now
> >> is hard.
> >>
> >> I'm happy to explore this further if people want to understand it.
> >>
> >> That being said, I am not suggesting I'd object to either approach
being
> >> discussed here. I only object to a justification that hinges on Cordova
> >> being an umbrella project.
> >>
> >> From a mobile device - forgive errors and terseness
> >> On Jul 26, 2012 7:19 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I sometimes see cordova not as a specific platform (or set of APIs)
> >>>but as
> >>> a leader in the open mobile web. If we are able to step away from the
> >>>idea
> >>> of cordova being a singular platform but the bleeding edge of mobile
> >>>web r
> >>> & d it makes sense to have ripple be a part of that.
> >>>
> >>> I might be getting caught up in religious zealotry but that is kind of
> >>>the
> >>> vision I see for cordova and seeing ripple fit really well into that
> >>>vision.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Filip Maj <fi...@adobe.com>
> >>> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:13:57
> >>> To:
> >>>callback-dev@incubator.apache.org<ca...@incubator.apache.org>
> >>> Reply-To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of
> >>>Cordova
> >>>
> >>> You can definitely count on some of us Cordova committers (Michael
> >>>Brooks,
> >>> myself) to continue contributing to Ripple. Hopefully we can encourage
> >>> others in our committer community as well as abroad to do the same.
> >>>
> >>> On 7/26/12 10:51 AM, "Ken Wallis" <kw...@rim.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >I would prefer that we have a pretty good idea of what the final
> >>>resting
> >>> >place should be and work towards that right away. While it probably
> >>>is
> >>> >fairly "easy" on the Apache side to promote a sub-project into a
> >>> >top-level one, it could cause headaches for any downstream consumers
> >>>of
> >>> >the project if it would involve repository moves, renaming,
> >>> >what-have-you. If the move could be fairly transparent then I don't
> >>>have
> >>> >an issue on this front. ;)
> >>> >
> >>> >In general though, I agree that the biggest question will be one of
> >>> >community. From where things stand, Ripple will not be solely tied
to
> >>> >Cordova, it will have other uses. With the importance that the
> >>>Cordova
> >>> >community is putting on Ripple, I have the feeling that there will be
> >>> >enough interconnections to help foster a strong enough community
> >>>around
> >>> >Ripple as a top-level project. (I hope) there will be shared
> >>>committers,
> >>> >Cordova consumption of the Ripple project, continued joint ventures
in
> >>> >terms of community out-reach and involvement, Cordova community
shared
> >>> >learnings on becoming an Apache project and navigating the process,
> >>>etc.
> >>> >I see the community aspect as a risk if Ripple were to be a top-level
> >>> >project, but with the Cordova community support, I think it will be a
> >>> >small one.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >--
> >>> >
> >>> >Ken Wallis
> >>> >
> >>> >Product Manager BlackBerry WebWorks
> >>> >
> >>> >Research In Motion
> >>> >
> >>> >(905) 629-4746 x14369
> >>> >
> >>> >________________________________________
> >>> >From: Filip Maj [fil@adobe.com]
> >>> >Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 1:07 PM
> >>> >To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>> >Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of
> >>>Cordova
> >>> >
> >>> >In my mind the core issue is about community, not about development.
> >>> >
> >>> >With that in mind, and taking Ross' point below, I think it makes
> >>>sense to
> >>> >have it as a stand-alone project.
> >>> >
> >>> >However, with respect to Jukka's question about development _of_
> >>>Ripple,
> >>> >there is certainly an overlap and integration between Cordova and
> >>>Ripple
> >>> >development. Gord and I have talked about how, when a new platform
> >>>makes
> >>> >its way into Cordova and has the start of a full implementation, the
> >>>first
> >>> >step would be to take the platform's JavaScript implementation and
> >>>run the
> >>> >Cordova test suite inside of Ripple (before even going to the
> >>>platform's
> >>> >emulator / device). This is already in a way exhibited by Tizen
> >>> >essentially using Ripple as their simulator in the first place.
> >>> >
> >>> >So in conclusion: both are viable paths IMO, and we do not get to a
> >>> >conclusion haha.
> >>> >
> >>> >What about the idea of introducing Ripple into Cordova for the start,
> >>>and
> >>> >then later splitting it out? Seems like then we could kick-start
> >>>Ripple's
> >>> >exposure and community/committer interaction by leveraging what
> >>>Cordova
> >>> >already has. If that sounds acceptable, then my question would be, at
> >>>what
> >>> >point does it make sense to put Ripple into its own top-level
project?
> >>> >
> >>> >On 7/26/12 7:53 AM, "Ross Gardler" <rg...@opendirective.com>
wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >>+1 to everything Jukka said below.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Another way of looking at it is "will the Ripple community be a
> >>> >>sub-set of the Cordova community", if yes then sub-project is
> >>>probably
> >>> >>best. If not, i.e. there will be members of the Ripple community who
> >>> >>are not also members of the Cordova community, then it probably
ought
> >>> >>to be a separate project to maximise its visibility as a separate
> >>> >>community.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Ross
> >>> >>
> >>> >>On 26 July 2012 15:25, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> >>> >>> Hi,
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:06 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >>>> There is a lot of overlap between the cordova and ripple
> >>>communities
> >>> >>>>and I was originally
> >>> >>>> hoping to foster their community into ours ;)
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> I guess the main question here is whether Cordova committers will
> >>>be
> >>> >>> working on / looking at Ripple code and vice versa on a regular
> >>>basis.
> >>> >>> If that's the case (i.e. there's significant overlap in actual
> >>> >>> development activity), then having the codebases in one project is
> >>>a
> >>> >>> good approach. weinre is a good example of such a case.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> If not (for example if separate mailing lists are needed, etc.),
> >>>then
> >>> >>> it's best for both codebases to have their own projects even if
> >>> >>> there's overlap on the level of individual committers.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> The decision on this doesn't need to be final, as projects can
> >>>always
> >>> >>> split or merge projects later on, but starting with at least a
good
> >>> >>> approximation of the ultimate or ideal community/project structure
> >>> >>> will of course make things much easier.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> BR,
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Jukka Zitting
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>--
> >>> >>Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> >>> >>Programme Leader (Open Development)
> >>> >>OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >This transmission (including any attachments) may contain
confidential
> >>> >information, privileged material (including material protected by the
> >>> >solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute
> >>> >non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other
> >>>than
> >>> >the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this
> >>> >transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and
> >>>delete
> >>> >this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution,
> >>>or
> >>> >reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not
> >>> >authorized and may be unlawful.
> >>>
> >>>
>
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Filip Maj <fi...@adobe.com>.
Ross, I would love to become more familiar with the specific reasoning,
when you have time to share it.
On 7/26/12 11:49 AM, "Brian LeRoux" <b...@brian.io> wrote:
>I think Ripple as a stand alone is probably the best place for it
>conceptually. From an infrastructure standpoint there is so much
>overlap between the projects its seems inefficient so its really the
>only place I'm having difficulty reconciling. If Ripple does go TLP
>then it has to have all the git repo, issue tracker, wiki, website,
>and mailing list ceremony that we kinda already enjoy in this space.
>That said, having all that stuff decoupled is also not a bad thing at
>all.
>
>Ultimately, I'm very happy to see the code joining us at Apache and
>whatever choice the RIM creators/committers/contributors decide we
>support!
>
>
>On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Ross Gardler
><rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
>> Whilst Cordova can see idle in any light or likes, from the ASF
>>perspective
>> it is just a project. The ASF is the umbrella organisation and it
>>resists
>> the idea of projects becoming umbrellas. There are good, community
>>focused
>> reasons for this. Reasons that come from practical experiences within
>>this
>> foundation. Unfortunately I'm on a mobile so providing references right
>>now
>> is hard.
>>
>> I'm happy to explore this further if people want to understand it.
>>
>> That being said, I am not suggesting I'd object to either approach being
>> discussed here. I only object to a justification that hinges on Cordova
>> being an umbrella project.
>>
>> From a mobile device - forgive errors and terseness
>> On Jul 26, 2012 7:19 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I sometimes see cordova not as a specific platform (or set of APIs)
>>>but as
>>> a leader in the open mobile web. If we are able to step away from the
>>>idea
>>> of cordova being a singular platform but the bleeding edge of mobile
>>>web r
>>> & d it makes sense to have ripple be a part of that.
>>>
>>> I might be getting caught up in religious zealotry but that is kind of
>>>the
>>> vision I see for cordova and seeing ripple fit really well into that
>>>vision.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Filip Maj <fi...@adobe.com>
>>> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:13:57
>>> To:
>>>callback-dev@incubator.apache.org<ca...@incubator.apache.org>
>>> Reply-To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of
>>>Cordova
>>>
>>> You can definitely count on some of us Cordova committers (Michael
>>>Brooks,
>>> myself) to continue contributing to Ripple. Hopefully we can encourage
>>> others in our committer community as well as abroad to do the same.
>>>
>>> On 7/26/12 10:51 AM, "Ken Wallis" <kw...@rim.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >I would prefer that we have a pretty good idea of what the final
>>>resting
>>> >place should be and work towards that right away. While it probably
>>>is
>>> >fairly "easy" on the Apache side to promote a sub-project into a
>>> >top-level one, it could cause headaches for any downstream consumers
>>>of
>>> >the project if it would involve repository moves, renaming,
>>> >what-have-you. If the move could be fairly transparent then I don't
>>>have
>>> >an issue on this front. ;)
>>> >
>>> >In general though, I agree that the biggest question will be one of
>>> >community. From where things stand, Ripple will not be solely tied to
>>> >Cordova, it will have other uses. With the importance that the
>>>Cordova
>>> >community is putting on Ripple, I have the feeling that there will be
>>> >enough interconnections to help foster a strong enough community
>>>around
>>> >Ripple as a top-level project. (I hope) there will be shared
>>>committers,
>>> >Cordova consumption of the Ripple project, continued joint ventures in
>>> >terms of community out-reach and involvement, Cordova community shared
>>> >learnings on becoming an Apache project and navigating the process,
>>>etc.
>>> >I see the community aspect as a risk if Ripple were to be a top-level
>>> >project, but with the Cordova community support, I think it will be a
>>> >small one.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >--
>>> >
>>> >Ken Wallis
>>> >
>>> >Product Manager BlackBerry WebWorks
>>> >
>>> >Research In Motion
>>> >
>>> >(905) 629-4746 x14369
>>> >
>>> >________________________________________
>>> >From: Filip Maj [fil@adobe.com]
>>> >Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 1:07 PM
>>> >To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> >Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of
>>>Cordova
>>> >
>>> >In my mind the core issue is about community, not about development.
>>> >
>>> >With that in mind, and taking Ross' point below, I think it makes
>>>sense to
>>> >have it as a stand-alone project.
>>> >
>>> >However, with respect to Jukka's question about development _of_
>>>Ripple,
>>> >there is certainly an overlap and integration between Cordova and
>>>Ripple
>>> >development. Gord and I have talked about how, when a new platform
>>>makes
>>> >its way into Cordova and has the start of a full implementation, the
>>>first
>>> >step would be to take the platform's JavaScript implementation and
>>>run the
>>> >Cordova test suite inside of Ripple (before even going to the
>>>platform's
>>> >emulator / device). This is already in a way exhibited by Tizen
>>> >essentially using Ripple as their simulator in the first place.
>>> >
>>> >So in conclusion: both are viable paths IMO, and we do not get to a
>>> >conclusion haha.
>>> >
>>> >What about the idea of introducing Ripple into Cordova for the start,
>>>and
>>> >then later splitting it out? Seems like then we could kick-start
>>>Ripple's
>>> >exposure and community/committer interaction by leveraging what
>>>Cordova
>>> >already has. If that sounds acceptable, then my question would be, at
>>>what
>>> >point does it make sense to put Ripple into its own top-level project?
>>> >
>>> >On 7/26/12 7:53 AM, "Ross Gardler" <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>+1 to everything Jukka said below.
>>> >>
>>> >>Another way of looking at it is "will the Ripple community be a
>>> >>sub-set of the Cordova community", if yes then sub-project is
>>>probably
>>> >>best. If not, i.e. there will be members of the Ripple community who
>>> >>are not also members of the Cordova community, then it probably ought
>>> >>to be a separate project to maximise its visibility as a separate
>>> >>community.
>>> >>
>>> >>Ross
>>> >>
>>> >>On 26 July 2012 15:25, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>> Hi,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:06 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>> There is a lot of overlap between the cordova and ripple
>>>communities
>>> >>>>and I was originally
>>> >>>> hoping to foster their community into ours ;)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I guess the main question here is whether Cordova committers will
>>>be
>>> >>> working on / looking at Ripple code and vice versa on a regular
>>>basis.
>>> >>> If that's the case (i.e. there's significant overlap in actual
>>> >>> development activity), then having the codebases in one project is
>>>a
>>> >>> good approach. weinre is a good example of such a case.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> If not (for example if separate mailing lists are needed, etc.),
>>>then
>>> >>> it's best for both codebases to have their own projects even if
>>> >>> there's overlap on the level of individual committers.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The decision on this doesn't need to be final, as projects can
>>>always
>>> >>> split or merge projects later on, but starting with at least a good
>>> >>> approximation of the ultimate or ideal community/project structure
>>> >>> will of course make things much easier.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> BR,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Jukka Zitting
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>--
>>> >>Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>>> >>Programme Leader (Open Development)
>>> >>OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential
>>> >information, privileged material (including material protected by the
>>> >solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute
>>> >non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other
>>>than
>>> >the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this
>>> >transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and
>>>delete
>>> >this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution,
>>>or
>>> >reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not
>>> >authorized and may be unlawful.
>>>
>>>
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io>.
I think Ripple as a stand alone is probably the best place for it
conceptually. From an infrastructure standpoint there is so much
overlap between the projects its seems inefficient so its really the
only place I'm having difficulty reconciling. If Ripple does go TLP
then it has to have all the git repo, issue tracker, wiki, website,
and mailing list ceremony that we kinda already enjoy in this space.
That said, having all that stuff decoupled is also not a bad thing at
all.
Ultimately, I'm very happy to see the code joining us at Apache and
whatever choice the RIM creators/committers/contributors decide we
support!
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Ross Gardler
<rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> Whilst Cordova can see idle in any light or likes, from the ASF perspective
> it is just a project. The ASF is the umbrella organisation and it resists
> the idea of projects becoming umbrellas. There are good, community focused
> reasons for this. Reasons that come from practical experiences within this
> foundation. Unfortunately I'm on a mobile so providing references right now
> is hard.
>
> I'm happy to explore this further if people want to understand it.
>
> That being said, I am not suggesting I'd object to either approach being
> discussed here. I only object to a justification that hinges on Cordova
> being an umbrella project.
>
> From a mobile device - forgive errors and terseness
> On Jul 26, 2012 7:19 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I sometimes see cordova not as a specific platform (or set of APIs) but as
>> a leader in the open mobile web. If we are able to step away from the idea
>> of cordova being a singular platform but the bleeding edge of mobile web r
>> & d it makes sense to have ripple be a part of that.
>>
>> I might be getting caught up in religious zealotry but that is kind of the
>> vision I see for cordova and seeing ripple fit really well into that vision.
>>
>>
>> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Filip Maj <fi...@adobe.com>
>> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:13:57
>> To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org<ca...@incubator.apache.org>
>> Reply-To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
>>
>> You can definitely count on some of us Cordova committers (Michael Brooks,
>> myself) to continue contributing to Ripple. Hopefully we can encourage
>> others in our committer community as well as abroad to do the same.
>>
>> On 7/26/12 10:51 AM, "Ken Wallis" <kw...@rim.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I would prefer that we have a pretty good idea of what the final resting
>> >place should be and work towards that right away. While it probably is
>> >fairly "easy" on the Apache side to promote a sub-project into a
>> >top-level one, it could cause headaches for any downstream consumers of
>> >the project if it would involve repository moves, renaming,
>> >what-have-you. If the move could be fairly transparent then I don't have
>> >an issue on this front. ;)
>> >
>> >In general though, I agree that the biggest question will be one of
>> >community. From where things stand, Ripple will not be solely tied to
>> >Cordova, it will have other uses. With the importance that the Cordova
>> >community is putting on Ripple, I have the feeling that there will be
>> >enough interconnections to help foster a strong enough community around
>> >Ripple as a top-level project. (I hope) there will be shared committers,
>> >Cordova consumption of the Ripple project, continued joint ventures in
>> >terms of community out-reach and involvement, Cordova community shared
>> >learnings on becoming an Apache project and navigating the process, etc.
>> >I see the community aspect as a risk if Ripple were to be a top-level
>> >project, but with the Cordova community support, I think it will be a
>> >small one.
>> >
>> >
>> >--
>> >
>> >Ken Wallis
>> >
>> >Product Manager BlackBerry WebWorks
>> >
>> >Research In Motion
>> >
>> >(905) 629-4746 x14369
>> >
>> >________________________________________
>> >From: Filip Maj [fil@adobe.com]
>> >Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 1:07 PM
>> >To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
>> >
>> >In my mind the core issue is about community, not about development.
>> >
>> >With that in mind, and taking Ross' point below, I think it makes sense to
>> >have it as a stand-alone project.
>> >
>> >However, with respect to Jukka's question about development _of_ Ripple,
>> >there is certainly an overlap and integration between Cordova and Ripple
>> >development. Gord and I have talked about how, when a new platform makes
>> >its way into Cordova and has the start of a full implementation, the first
>> >step would be to take the platform's JavaScript implementation and run the
>> >Cordova test suite inside of Ripple (before even going to the platform's
>> >emulator / device). This is already in a way exhibited by Tizen
>> >essentially using Ripple as their simulator in the first place.
>> >
>> >So in conclusion: both are viable paths IMO, and we do not get to a
>> >conclusion haha.
>> >
>> >What about the idea of introducing Ripple into Cordova for the start, and
>> >then later splitting it out? Seems like then we could kick-start Ripple's
>> >exposure and community/committer interaction by leveraging what Cordova
>> >already has. If that sounds acceptable, then my question would be, at what
>> >point does it make sense to put Ripple into its own top-level project?
>> >
>> >On 7/26/12 7:53 AM, "Ross Gardler" <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>+1 to everything Jukka said below.
>> >>
>> >>Another way of looking at it is "will the Ripple community be a
>> >>sub-set of the Cordova community", if yes then sub-project is probably
>> >>best. If not, i.e. there will be members of the Ripple community who
>> >>are not also members of the Cordova community, then it probably ought
>> >>to be a separate project to maximise its visibility as a separate
>> >>community.
>> >>
>> >>Ross
>> >>
>> >>On 26 July 2012 15:25, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> Hi,
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:06 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> There is a lot of overlap between the cordova and ripple communities
>> >>>>and I was originally
>> >>>> hoping to foster their community into ours ;)
>> >>>
>> >>> I guess the main question here is whether Cordova committers will be
>> >>> working on / looking at Ripple code and vice versa on a regular basis.
>> >>> If that's the case (i.e. there's significant overlap in actual
>> >>> development activity), then having the codebases in one project is a
>> >>> good approach. weinre is a good example of such a case.
>> >>>
>> >>> If not (for example if separate mailing lists are needed, etc.), then
>> >>> it's best for both codebases to have their own projects even if
>> >>> there's overlap on the level of individual committers.
>> >>>
>> >>> The decision on this doesn't need to be final, as projects can always
>> >>> split or merge projects later on, but starting with at least a good
>> >>> approximation of the ultimate or ideal community/project structure
>> >>> will of course make things much easier.
>> >>>
>> >>> BR,
>> >>>
>> >>> Jukka Zitting
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>--
>> >>Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>> >>Programme Leader (Open Development)
>> >>OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>> >
>> >
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential
>> >information, privileged material (including material protected by the
>> >solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute
>> >non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other than
>> >the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this
>> >transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete
>> >this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or
>> >reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not
>> >authorized and may be unlawful.
>>
>>
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
Whilst Cordova can see idle in any light or likes, from the ASF perspective
it is just a project. The ASF is the umbrella organisation and it resists
the idea of projects becoming umbrellas. There are good, community focused
reasons for this. Reasons that come from practical experiences within this
foundation. Unfortunately I'm on a mobile so providing references right now
is hard.
I'm happy to explore this further if people want to understand it.
That being said, I am not suggesting I'd object to either approach being
discussed here. I only object to a justification that hinges on Cordova
being an umbrella project.
>From a mobile device - forgive errors and terseness
On Jul 26, 2012 7:19 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I sometimes see cordova not as a specific platform (or set of APIs) but as
> a leader in the open mobile web. If we are able to step away from the idea
> of cordova being a singular platform but the bleeding edge of mobile web r
> & d it makes sense to have ripple be a part of that.
>
> I might be getting caught up in religious zealotry but that is kind of the
> vision I see for cordova and seeing ripple fit really well into that vision.
>
>
> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Filip Maj <fi...@adobe.com>
> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:13:57
> To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org<ca...@incubator.apache.org>
> Reply-To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
>
> You can definitely count on some of us Cordova committers (Michael Brooks,
> myself) to continue contributing to Ripple. Hopefully we can encourage
> others in our committer community as well as abroad to do the same.
>
> On 7/26/12 10:51 AM, "Ken Wallis" <kw...@rim.com> wrote:
>
> >I would prefer that we have a pretty good idea of what the final resting
> >place should be and work towards that right away. While it probably is
> >fairly "easy" on the Apache side to promote a sub-project into a
> >top-level one, it could cause headaches for any downstream consumers of
> >the project if it would involve repository moves, renaming,
> >what-have-you. If the move could be fairly transparent then I don't have
> >an issue on this front. ;)
> >
> >In general though, I agree that the biggest question will be one of
> >community. From where things stand, Ripple will not be solely tied to
> >Cordova, it will have other uses. With the importance that the Cordova
> >community is putting on Ripple, I have the feeling that there will be
> >enough interconnections to help foster a strong enough community around
> >Ripple as a top-level project. (I hope) there will be shared committers,
> >Cordova consumption of the Ripple project, continued joint ventures in
> >terms of community out-reach and involvement, Cordova community shared
> >learnings on becoming an Apache project and navigating the process, etc.
> >I see the community aspect as a risk if Ripple were to be a top-level
> >project, but with the Cordova community support, I think it will be a
> >small one.
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >Ken Wallis
> >
> >Product Manager BlackBerry WebWorks
> >
> >Research In Motion
> >
> >(905) 629-4746 x14369
> >
> >________________________________________
> >From: Filip Maj [fil@adobe.com]
> >Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 1:07 PM
> >To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
> >
> >In my mind the core issue is about community, not about development.
> >
> >With that in mind, and taking Ross' point below, I think it makes sense to
> >have it as a stand-alone project.
> >
> >However, with respect to Jukka's question about development _of_ Ripple,
> >there is certainly an overlap and integration between Cordova and Ripple
> >development. Gord and I have talked about how, when a new platform makes
> >its way into Cordova and has the start of a full implementation, the first
> >step would be to take the platform's JavaScript implementation and run the
> >Cordova test suite inside of Ripple (before even going to the platform's
> >emulator / device). This is already in a way exhibited by Tizen
> >essentially using Ripple as their simulator in the first place.
> >
> >So in conclusion: both are viable paths IMO, and we do not get to a
> >conclusion haha.
> >
> >What about the idea of introducing Ripple into Cordova for the start, and
> >then later splitting it out? Seems like then we could kick-start Ripple's
> >exposure and community/committer interaction by leveraging what Cordova
> >already has. If that sounds acceptable, then my question would be, at what
> >point does it make sense to put Ripple into its own top-level project?
> >
> >On 7/26/12 7:53 AM, "Ross Gardler" <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> >
> >>+1 to everything Jukka said below.
> >>
> >>Another way of looking at it is "will the Ripple community be a
> >>sub-set of the Cordova community", if yes then sub-project is probably
> >>best. If not, i.e. there will be members of the Ripple community who
> >>are not also members of the Cordova community, then it probably ought
> >>to be a separate project to maximise its visibility as a separate
> >>community.
> >>
> >>Ross
> >>
> >>On 26 July 2012 15:25, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:06 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> There is a lot of overlap between the cordova and ripple communities
> >>>>and I was originally
> >>>> hoping to foster their community into ours ;)
> >>>
> >>> I guess the main question here is whether Cordova committers will be
> >>> working on / looking at Ripple code and vice versa on a regular basis.
> >>> If that's the case (i.e. there's significant overlap in actual
> >>> development activity), then having the codebases in one project is a
> >>> good approach. weinre is a good example of such a case.
> >>>
> >>> If not (for example if separate mailing lists are needed, etc.), then
> >>> it's best for both codebases to have their own projects even if
> >>> there's overlap on the level of individual committers.
> >>>
> >>> The decision on this doesn't need to be final, as projects can always
> >>> split or merge projects later on, but starting with at least a good
> >>> approximation of the ultimate or ideal community/project structure
> >>> will of course make things much easier.
> >>>
> >>> BR,
> >>>
> >>> Jukka Zitting
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> >>Programme Leader (Open Development)
> >>OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential
> >information, privileged material (including material protected by the
> >solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute
> >non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other than
> >the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this
> >transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete
> >this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or
> >reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not
> >authorized and may be unlawful.
>
>
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by gt...@gmail.com.
I sometimes see cordova not as a specific platform (or set of APIs) but as a leader in the open mobile web. If we are able to step away from the idea of cordova being a singular platform but the bleeding edge of mobile web r & d it makes sense to have ripple be a part of that.
I might be getting caught up in religious zealotry but that is kind of the vision I see for cordova and seeing ripple fit really well into that vision.
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Filip Maj <fi...@adobe.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:13:57
To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org<ca...@incubator.apache.org>
Reply-To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
You can definitely count on some of us Cordova committers (Michael Brooks,
myself) to continue contributing to Ripple. Hopefully we can encourage
others in our committer community as well as abroad to do the same.
On 7/26/12 10:51 AM, "Ken Wallis" <kw...@rim.com> wrote:
>I would prefer that we have a pretty good idea of what the final resting
>place should be and work towards that right away. While it probably is
>fairly "easy" on the Apache side to promote a sub-project into a
>top-level one, it could cause headaches for any downstream consumers of
>the project if it would involve repository moves, renaming,
>what-have-you. If the move could be fairly transparent then I don't have
>an issue on this front. ;)
>
>In general though, I agree that the biggest question will be one of
>community. From where things stand, Ripple will not be solely tied to
>Cordova, it will have other uses. With the importance that the Cordova
>community is putting on Ripple, I have the feeling that there will be
>enough interconnections to help foster a strong enough community around
>Ripple as a top-level project. (I hope) there will be shared committers,
>Cordova consumption of the Ripple project, continued joint ventures in
>terms of community out-reach and involvement, Cordova community shared
>learnings on becoming an Apache project and navigating the process, etc.
>I see the community aspect as a risk if Ripple were to be a top-level
>project, but with the Cordova community support, I think it will be a
>small one.
>
>
>--
>
>Ken Wallis
>
>Product Manager BlackBerry WebWorks
>
>Research In Motion
>
>(905) 629-4746 x14369
>
>________________________________________
>From: Filip Maj [fil@adobe.com]
>Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 1:07 PM
>To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
>
>In my mind the core issue is about community, not about development.
>
>With that in mind, and taking Ross' point below, I think it makes sense to
>have it as a stand-alone project.
>
>However, with respect to Jukka's question about development _of_ Ripple,
>there is certainly an overlap and integration between Cordova and Ripple
>development. Gord and I have talked about how, when a new platform makes
>its way into Cordova and has the start of a full implementation, the first
>step would be to take the platform's JavaScript implementation and run the
>Cordova test suite inside of Ripple (before even going to the platform's
>emulator / device). This is already in a way exhibited by Tizen
>essentially using Ripple as their simulator in the first place.
>
>So in conclusion: both are viable paths IMO, and we do not get to a
>conclusion haha.
>
>What about the idea of introducing Ripple into Cordova for the start, and
>then later splitting it out? Seems like then we could kick-start Ripple's
>exposure and community/committer interaction by leveraging what Cordova
>already has. If that sounds acceptable, then my question would be, at what
>point does it make sense to put Ripple into its own top-level project?
>
>On 7/26/12 7:53 AM, "Ross Gardler" <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
>
>>+1 to everything Jukka said below.
>>
>>Another way of looking at it is "will the Ripple community be a
>>sub-set of the Cordova community", if yes then sub-project is probably
>>best. If not, i.e. there will be members of the Ripple community who
>>are not also members of the Cordova community, then it probably ought
>>to be a separate project to maximise its visibility as a separate
>>community.
>>
>>Ross
>>
>>On 26 July 2012 15:25, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:06 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> There is a lot of overlap between the cordova and ripple communities
>>>>and I was originally
>>>> hoping to foster their community into ours ;)
>>>
>>> I guess the main question here is whether Cordova committers will be
>>> working on / looking at Ripple code and vice versa on a regular basis.
>>> If that's the case (i.e. there's significant overlap in actual
>>> development activity), then having the codebases in one project is a
>>> good approach. weinre is a good example of such a case.
>>>
>>> If not (for example if separate mailing lists are needed, etc.), then
>>> it's best for both codebases to have their own projects even if
>>> there's overlap on the level of individual committers.
>>>
>>> The decision on this doesn't need to be final, as projects can always
>>> split or merge projects later on, but starting with at least a good
>>> approximation of the ultimate or ideal community/project structure
>>> will of course make things much easier.
>>>
>>> BR,
>>>
>>> Jukka Zitting
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>>Programme Leader (Open Development)
>>OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential
>information, privileged material (including material protected by the
>solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute
>non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other than
>the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this
>transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete
>this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or
>reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not
>authorized and may be unlawful.
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Filip Maj <fi...@adobe.com>.
You can definitely count on some of us Cordova committers (Michael Brooks,
myself) to continue contributing to Ripple. Hopefully we can encourage
others in our committer community as well as abroad to do the same.
On 7/26/12 10:51 AM, "Ken Wallis" <kw...@rim.com> wrote:
>I would prefer that we have a pretty good idea of what the final resting
>place should be and work towards that right away. While it probably is
>fairly "easy" on the Apache side to promote a sub-project into a
>top-level one, it could cause headaches for any downstream consumers of
>the project if it would involve repository moves, renaming,
>what-have-you. If the move could be fairly transparent then I don't have
>an issue on this front. ;)
>
>In general though, I agree that the biggest question will be one of
>community. From where things stand, Ripple will not be solely tied to
>Cordova, it will have other uses. With the importance that the Cordova
>community is putting on Ripple, I have the feeling that there will be
>enough interconnections to help foster a strong enough community around
>Ripple as a top-level project. (I hope) there will be shared committers,
>Cordova consumption of the Ripple project, continued joint ventures in
>terms of community out-reach and involvement, Cordova community shared
>learnings on becoming an Apache project and navigating the process, etc.
>I see the community aspect as a risk if Ripple were to be a top-level
>project, but with the Cordova community support, I think it will be a
>small one.
>
>
>--
>
>Ken Wallis
>
>Product Manager BlackBerry WebWorks
>
>Research In Motion
>
>(905) 629-4746 x14369
>
>________________________________________
>From: Filip Maj [fil@adobe.com]
>Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 1:07 PM
>To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
>
>In my mind the core issue is about community, not about development.
>
>With that in mind, and taking Ross' point below, I think it makes sense to
>have it as a stand-alone project.
>
>However, with respect to Jukka's question about development _of_ Ripple,
>there is certainly an overlap and integration between Cordova and Ripple
>development. Gord and I have talked about how, when a new platform makes
>its way into Cordova and has the start of a full implementation, the first
>step would be to take the platform's JavaScript implementation and run the
>Cordova test suite inside of Ripple (before even going to the platform's
>emulator / device). This is already in a way exhibited by Tizen
>essentially using Ripple as their simulator in the first place.
>
>So in conclusion: both are viable paths IMO, and we do not get to a
>conclusion haha.
>
>What about the idea of introducing Ripple into Cordova for the start, and
>then later splitting it out? Seems like then we could kick-start Ripple's
>exposure and community/committer interaction by leveraging what Cordova
>already has. If that sounds acceptable, then my question would be, at what
>point does it make sense to put Ripple into its own top-level project?
>
>On 7/26/12 7:53 AM, "Ross Gardler" <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
>
>>+1 to everything Jukka said below.
>>
>>Another way of looking at it is "will the Ripple community be a
>>sub-set of the Cordova community", if yes then sub-project is probably
>>best. If not, i.e. there will be members of the Ripple community who
>>are not also members of the Cordova community, then it probably ought
>>to be a separate project to maximise its visibility as a separate
>>community.
>>
>>Ross
>>
>>On 26 July 2012 15:25, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:06 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> There is a lot of overlap between the cordova and ripple communities
>>>>and I was originally
>>>> hoping to foster their community into ours ;)
>>>
>>> I guess the main question here is whether Cordova committers will be
>>> working on / looking at Ripple code and vice versa on a regular basis.
>>> If that's the case (i.e. there's significant overlap in actual
>>> development activity), then having the codebases in one project is a
>>> good approach. weinre is a good example of such a case.
>>>
>>> If not (for example if separate mailing lists are needed, etc.), then
>>> it's best for both codebases to have their own projects even if
>>> there's overlap on the level of individual committers.
>>>
>>> The decision on this doesn't need to be final, as projects can always
>>> split or merge projects later on, but starting with at least a good
>>> approximation of the ultimate or ideal community/project structure
>>> will of course make things much easier.
>>>
>>> BR,
>>>
>>> Jukka Zitting
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>>Programme Leader (Open Development)
>>OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential
>information, privileged material (including material protected by the
>solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute
>non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other than
>the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this
>transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete
>this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or
>reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not
>authorized and may be unlawful.
RE: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Ken Wallis <kw...@rim.com>.
I would prefer that we have a pretty good idea of what the final resting place should be and work towards that right away. While it probably is fairly "easy" on the Apache side to promote a sub-project into a top-level one, it could cause headaches for any downstream consumers of the project if it would involve repository moves, renaming, what-have-you. If the move could be fairly transparent then I don't have an issue on this front. ;)
In general though, I agree that the biggest question will be one of community. From where things stand, Ripple will not be solely tied to Cordova, it will have other uses. With the importance that the Cordova community is putting on Ripple, I have the feeling that there will be enough interconnections to help foster a strong enough community around Ripple as a top-level project. (I hope) there will be shared committers, Cordova consumption of the Ripple project, continued joint ventures in terms of community out-reach and involvement, Cordova community shared learnings on becoming an Apache project and navigating the process, etc. I see the community aspect as a risk if Ripple were to be a top-level project, but with the Cordova community support, I think it will be a small one.
--
Ken Wallis
Product Manager – BlackBerry WebWorks
Research In Motion
(905) 629-4746 x14369
________________________________________
From: Filip Maj [fil@adobe.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 1:07 PM
To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
In my mind the core issue is about community, not about development.
With that in mind, and taking Ross' point below, I think it makes sense to
have it as a stand-alone project.
However, with respect to Jukka's question about development _of_ Ripple,
there is certainly an overlap and integration between Cordova and Ripple
development. Gord and I have talked about how, when a new platform makes
its way into Cordova and has the start of a full implementation, the first
step would be to take the platform's JavaScript implementation and run the
Cordova test suite inside of Ripple (before even going to the platform's
emulator / device). This is already in a way exhibited by Tizen
essentially using Ripple as their simulator in the first place.
So in conclusion: both are viable paths IMO, and we do not get to a
conclusion haha.
What about the idea of introducing Ripple into Cordova for the start, and
then later splitting it out? Seems like then we could kick-start Ripple's
exposure and community/committer interaction by leveraging what Cordova
already has. If that sounds acceptable, then my question would be, at what
point does it make sense to put Ripple into its own top-level project?
On 7/26/12 7:53 AM, "Ross Gardler" <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
>+1 to everything Jukka said below.
>
>Another way of looking at it is "will the Ripple community be a
>sub-set of the Cordova community", if yes then sub-project is probably
>best. If not, i.e. there will be members of the Ripple community who
>are not also members of the Cordova community, then it probably ought
>to be a separate project to maximise its visibility as a separate
>community.
>
>Ross
>
>On 26 July 2012 15:25, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:06 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> There is a lot of overlap between the cordova and ripple communities
>>>and I was originally
>>> hoping to foster their community into ours ;)
>>
>> I guess the main question here is whether Cordova committers will be
>> working on / looking at Ripple code and vice versa on a regular basis.
>> If that's the case (i.e. there's significant overlap in actual
>> development activity), then having the codebases in one project is a
>> good approach. weinre is a good example of such a case.
>>
>> If not (for example if separate mailing lists are needed, etc.), then
>> it's best for both codebases to have their own projects even if
>> there's overlap on the level of individual committers.
>>
>> The decision on this doesn't need to be final, as projects can always
>> split or merge projects later on, but starting with at least a good
>> approximation of the ultimate or ideal community/project structure
>> will of course make things much easier.
>>
>> BR,
>>
>> Jukka Zitting
>
>
>
>--
>Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>Programme Leader (Open Development)
>OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential information, privileged material (including material protected by the solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful.
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Filip Maj <fi...@adobe.com>.
In my mind the core issue is about community, not about development.
With that in mind, and taking Ross' point below, I think it makes sense to
have it as a stand-alone project.
However, with respect to Jukka's question about development _of_ Ripple,
there is certainly an overlap and integration between Cordova and Ripple
development. Gord and I have talked about how, when a new platform makes
its way into Cordova and has the start of a full implementation, the first
step would be to take the platform's JavaScript implementation and run the
Cordova test suite inside of Ripple (before even going to the platform's
emulator / device). This is already in a way exhibited by Tizen
essentially using Ripple as their simulator in the first place.
So in conclusion: both are viable paths IMO, and we do not get to a
conclusion haha.
What about the idea of introducing Ripple into Cordova for the start, and
then later splitting it out? Seems like then we could kick-start Ripple's
exposure and community/committer interaction by leveraging what Cordova
already has. If that sounds acceptable, then my question would be, at what
point does it make sense to put Ripple into its own top-level project?
On 7/26/12 7:53 AM, "Ross Gardler" <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
>+1 to everything Jukka said below.
>
>Another way of looking at it is "will the Ripple community be a
>sub-set of the Cordova community", if yes then sub-project is probably
>best. If not, i.e. there will be members of the Ripple community who
>are not also members of the Cordova community, then it probably ought
>to be a separate project to maximise its visibility as a separate
>community.
>
>Ross
>
>On 26 July 2012 15:25, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:06 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> There is a lot of overlap between the cordova and ripple communities
>>>and I was originally
>>> hoping to foster their community into ours ;)
>>
>> I guess the main question here is whether Cordova committers will be
>> working on / looking at Ripple code and vice versa on a regular basis.
>> If that's the case (i.e. there's significant overlap in actual
>> development activity), then having the codebases in one project is a
>> good approach. weinre is a good example of such a case.
>>
>> If not (for example if separate mailing lists are needed, etc.), then
>> it's best for both codebases to have their own projects even if
>> there's overlap on the level of individual committers.
>>
>> The decision on this doesn't need to be final, as projects can always
>> split or merge projects later on, but starting with at least a good
>> approximation of the ultimate or ideal community/project structure
>> will of course make things much easier.
>>
>> BR,
>>
>> Jukka Zitting
>
>
>
>--
>Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>Programme Leader (Open Development)
>OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
+1 to everything Jukka said below.
Another way of looking at it is "will the Ripple community be a
sub-set of the Cordova community", if yes then sub-project is probably
best. If not, i.e. there will be members of the Ripple community who
are not also members of the Cordova community, then it probably ought
to be a separate project to maximise its visibility as a separate
community.
Ross
On 26 July 2012 15:25, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:06 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> There is a lot of overlap between the cordova and ripple communities and I was originally
>> hoping to foster their community into ours ;)
>
> I guess the main question here is whether Cordova committers will be
> working on / looking at Ripple code and vice versa on a regular basis.
> If that's the case (i.e. there's significant overlap in actual
> development activity), then having the codebases in one project is a
> good approach. weinre is a good example of such a case.
>
> If not (for example if separate mailing lists are needed, etc.), then
> it's best for both codebases to have their own projects even if
> there's overlap on the level of individual committers.
>
> The decision on this doesn't need to be final, as projects can always
> split or merge projects later on, but starting with at least a good
> approximation of the ultimate or ideal community/project structure
> will of course make things much easier.
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:06 PM, <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There is a lot of overlap between the cordova and ripple communities and I was originally
> hoping to foster their community into ours ;)
I guess the main question here is whether Cordova committers will be
working on / looking at Ripple code and vice versa on a regular basis.
If that's the case (i.e. there's significant overlap in actual
development activity), then having the codebases in one project is a
good approach. weinre is a good example of such a case.
If not (for example if separate mailing lists are needed, etc.), then
it's best for both codebases to have their own projects even if
there's overlap on the level of individual committers.
The decision on this doesn't need to be final, as projects can always
split or merge projects later on, but starting with at least a good
approximation of the ultimate or ideal community/project structure
will of course make things much easier.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by gt...@gmail.com.
My main worry when talking about ripple as a top level project is building up a community around it.
There is a lot of overlap between the cordova and ripple communities and I was originally hoping to foster their community into ours ;)
Ripple currently has a small development community behind it and my hope that no matter where it lands in apache, we are able to grow the team to be a larger and more crosscutting group of peoiple
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Plaquette <pa...@linux.intel.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 15:57:28
To: <ca...@incubator.apache.org>
Reply-To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Hi Laurent,
We are indeed adding tizen to Codorva.
We are on the path to have it in apache repositories (it is a matter of
being in sync with our running work, cordova running work etc...)
Whatever Cordova APIs are directly integrated in Tizen SDK in some
ways or not won't change our involvement to port cordova on tizen, and
to make tizen a complete target for Cordova.
Supporting Firefox OS is probably something to do.
Moreover tizen SDK is using a Ripple Based simulator, we called it
Tizen web simulator.
Considering this having Ripple as a full Apache Foudation Project
seems to be the right thing to do.
Cordially,
Paul
On 07/25/2012 03:15 AM, Laurent Hasson wrote:
> Paul,
>
> Do you know if there is any intention for Tizen to support Cordova APIs? This is very interesting, and I suppose there might also be interest for FirefoxOS APIs?
>
> This would certainly put a new spin on Ripple and may go along Ross' initial comment about Ripple maybe being not just about Cordova. This has been my (limited) thinking so far, but there is certainly a great deal of opportunities if that type of extension makes sense.
>
>
> Thank You
> ------------------------------------------------
> - LDH (Laurent Hasson) -
> - Technical Director, BlackBerry Web Platform -
> - Research In Motion -
> - Email: lhasson@rim.com -
> - Mobile: 646-460-7066 -
> - Twitter: @ldhasson -
> ------------------------------------------------
> "Strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government" - Dennis
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Plaquette [mailto:paul.plaquette@intel.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 5:26 AM
> To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
>
> hi ,
>
> the Ripple source code is also the base for the tizen web simulator that
> is integrated in the tizen sdk [1]
>
> tizen web simulator is also available to open source community [2] on
> intel 01.org [3] web site.
>
> currently the idea is to add tizen web apis: specific tizen api, but
> also all standard apis that tizen is going to have from several sources
> (W3C, Khronos group etc...) - tizen documentation describes all this in
> details [4]
>
> may be something could be combined in adding cordova support in ripple?
>
> Paul
>
> [1] https://www.tizen.org/
> [2] https://01.org/web-simulator/about
> [3] https://01.org/
> [4] https://developer.tizen.org/documentation
>
>
--
Paul Plaquette
Senior Software Engineer
Open Source Technology Center
Intel Corp.,Montpellier, France
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Paul Plaquette <pa...@linux.intel.com>.
Hi Laurent,
We are indeed adding tizen to Codorva.
We are on the path to have it in apache repositories (it is a matter of
being in sync with our running work, cordova running work etc...)
Whatever Cordova APIs are directly integrated in Tizen SDK in some
ways or not won't change our involvement to port cordova on tizen, and
to make tizen a complete target for Cordova.
Supporting Firefox OS is probably something to do.
Moreover tizen SDK is using a Ripple Based simulator, we called it
Tizen web simulator.
Considering this having Ripple as a full Apache Foudation Project
seems to be the right thing to do.
Cordially,
Paul
On 07/25/2012 03:15 AM, Laurent Hasson wrote:
> Paul,
>
> Do you know if there is any intention for Tizen to support Cordova APIs? This is very interesting, and I suppose there might also be interest for FirefoxOS APIs?
>
> This would certainly put a new spin on Ripple and may go along Ross' initial comment about Ripple maybe being not just about Cordova. This has been my (limited) thinking so far, but there is certainly a great deal of opportunities if that type of extension makes sense.
>
>
> Thank You
> ------------------------------------------------
> - LDH (Laurent Hasson) -
> - Technical Director, BlackBerry Web Platform -
> - Research In Motion -
> - Email: lhasson@rim.com -
> - Mobile: 646-460-7066 -
> - Twitter: @ldhasson -
> ------------------------------------------------
> "Strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government" - Dennis
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Plaquette [mailto:paul.plaquette@intel.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 5:26 AM
> To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
>
> hi ,
>
> the Ripple source code is also the base for the tizen web simulator that
> is integrated in the tizen sdk [1]
>
> tizen web simulator is also available to open source community [2] on
> intel 01.org [3] web site.
>
> currently the idea is to add tizen web apis: specific tizen api, but
> also all standard apis that tizen is going to have from several sources
> (W3C, Khronos group etc...) - tizen documentation describes all this in
> details [4]
>
> may be something could be combined in adding cordova support in ripple?
>
> Paul
>
> [1] https://www.tizen.org/
> [2] https://01.org/web-simulator/about
> [3] https://01.org/
> [4] https://developer.tizen.org/documentation
>
>
--
Paul Plaquette
Senior Software Engineer
Open Source Technology Center
Intel Corp.,Montpellier, France
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Filip Maj <fi...@adobe.com>.
I am agnostic on whether or not Ripple should be a Cordova sub-project. I
think it is more of a question of perception. What's important to me is
that it makes it into Apache in one form or another!
On 7/24/12 6:15 PM, "Laurent Hasson" <lh...@rim.com> wrote:
>Paul,
>
>Do you know if there is any intention for Tizen to support Cordova APIs?
>This is very interesting, and I suppose there might also be interest for
>FirefoxOS APIs?
>
>This would certainly put a new spin on Ripple and may go along Ross'
>initial comment about Ripple maybe being not just about Cordova. This has
>been my (limited) thinking so far, but there is certainly a great deal of
>opportunities if that type of extension makes sense.
>
>
>Thank You
>------------------------------------------------
>- LDH (Laurent Hasson) -
>- Technical Director, BlackBerry Web Platform -
>- Research In Motion -
>- Email: lhasson@rim.com -
>- Mobile: 646-460-7066 -
>- Twitter: @ldhasson -
>------------------------------------------------
>"Strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a
>system of government" - Dennis
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul Plaquette [mailto:paul.plaquette@intel.com]
>Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 5:26 AM
>To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
>
>hi ,
>
>the Ripple source code is also the base for the tizen web simulator that
>is integrated in the tizen sdk [1]
>
>tizen web simulator is also available to open source community [2] on
>intel 01.org [3] web site.
>
>currently the idea is to add tizen web apis: specific tizen api, but
>also all standard apis that tizen is going to have from several sources
>(W3C, Khronos group etc...) - tizen documentation describes all this in
>details [4]
>
>may be something could be combined in adding cordova support in ripple?
>
>Paul
>
>[1] https://www.tizen.org/
>[2] https://01.org/web-simulator/about
>[3] https://01.org/
>[4] https://developer.tizen.org/documentation
>
>
>--
>Paul Plaquette
>Senior Software Engineer
>Open Source Technology Center
>Intel Corp.,Montpellier, France
>
>
>On 07/22/2012 12:14 AM, Filip Maj wrote:
>> I am very excited about this!
>>
>> The cordova suite of projects have never addressed emulation and my
>>go-to
>> has always been Ripple.
>>
>> If there is anything I can do to help please let me know.
>>
>> Mentors (Jukka?): other than setting up a repository, do you foresee any
>> issues with moving ahead with this? At the minimum I understand an audit
>> of the code and decoupling existing code from RIM-specific stuff is a
>> necessity, as well as a license audit (RAT tool), but, any other issues
>> you foresee or any recommendations/guidance on moving this forward that
>> our community could help with?
>>
>> On 7/20/12 4:20 PM, "Gord Tanner" <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> RIM has done a lot of work in Ripple to support the Cordova (PhoneGap)
>>> platform, now having almost full support for all of the platform APIs.
>>>
>>> We(RIM) believes that the natural home for Ripple is in the Apache
>>> Software
>>> Foundation as a sub-project of Cordova and we want to contribute
>>>Ripple to
>>> the ASF. However, this is the first time we are doing something like
>>>this
>>> and the entire company is focused on our BB10 delivery.
>>>
>>> We have been working very closely with the former Nitobi guys and will
>>> also
>>> work closely with the Cordova community. We hope to have the support
>>> needed
>>> in this community to help us find the best way to make this happen.
>>>
>>> If you are wondering what ripple is you can see the code here:
>>> https://github.com/blackberry/Ripple-UI
>>
>>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Intel Corporation SAS (French simplified joint stock company)
>Registered headquarters: "Les Montalets"- 2, rue de Paris,
>92196 Meudon Cedex, France
>Registration Number: 302 456 199 R.C.S. NANTERRE
>Capital: 4,572,000 Euros
>
>This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
>the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
>by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential
>information, privileged material (including material protected by the
>solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute
>non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other than
>the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this
>transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete
>this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or
>reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not
>authorized and may be unlawful.
RE: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Laurent Hasson <lh...@rim.com>.
Paul,
Do you know if there is any intention for Tizen to support Cordova APIs? This is very interesting, and I suppose there might also be interest for FirefoxOS APIs?
This would certainly put a new spin on Ripple and may go along Ross' initial comment about Ripple maybe being not just about Cordova. This has been my (limited) thinking so far, but there is certainly a great deal of opportunities if that type of extension makes sense.
Thank You
------------------------------------------------
- LDH (Laurent Hasson) -
- Technical Director, BlackBerry Web Platform -
- Research In Motion -
- Email: lhasson@rim.com -
- Mobile: 646-460-7066 -
- Twitter: @ldhasson -
------------------------------------------------
"Strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government" - Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Plaquette [mailto:paul.plaquette@intel.com]
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 5:26 AM
To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
hi ,
the Ripple source code is also the base for the tizen web simulator that
is integrated in the tizen sdk [1]
tizen web simulator is also available to open source community [2] on
intel 01.org [3] web site.
currently the idea is to add tizen web apis: specific tizen api, but
also all standard apis that tizen is going to have from several sources
(W3C, Khronos group etc...) - tizen documentation describes all this in
details [4]
may be something could be combined in adding cordova support in ripple?
Paul
[1] https://www.tizen.org/
[2] https://01.org/web-simulator/about
[3] https://01.org/
[4] https://developer.tizen.org/documentation
--
Paul Plaquette
Senior Software Engineer
Open Source Technology Center
Intel Corp.,Montpellier, France
On 07/22/2012 12:14 AM, Filip Maj wrote:
> I am very excited about this!
>
> The cordova suite of projects have never addressed emulation and my go-to
> has always been Ripple.
>
> If there is anything I can do to help please let me know.
>
> Mentors (Jukka?): other than setting up a repository, do you foresee any
> issues with moving ahead with this? At the minimum I understand an audit
> of the code and decoupling existing code from RIM-specific stuff is a
> necessity, as well as a license audit (RAT tool), but, any other issues
> you foresee or any recommendations/guidance on moving this forward that
> our community could help with?
>
> On 7/20/12 4:20 PM, "Gord Tanner" <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> RIM has done a lot of work in Ripple to support the Cordova (PhoneGap)
>> platform, now having almost full support for all of the platform APIs.
>>
>> We(RIM) believes that the natural home for Ripple is in the Apache
>> Software
>> Foundation as a sub-project of Cordova and we want to contribute Ripple to
>> the ASF. However, this is the first time we are doing something like this
>> and the entire company is focused on our BB10 delivery.
>>
>> We have been working very closely with the former Nitobi guys and will
>> also
>> work closely with the Cordova community. We hope to have the support
>> needed
>> in this community to help us find the best way to make this happen.
>>
>> If you are wondering what ripple is you can see the code here:
>> https://github.com/blackberry/Ripple-UI
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Intel Corporation SAS (French simplified joint stock company)
Registered headquarters: "Les Montalets"- 2, rue de Paris,
92196 Meudon Cedex, France
Registration Number: 302 456 199 R.C.S. NANTERRE
Capital: 4,572,000 Euros
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential information, privileged material (including material protected by the solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful.
Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Paul Plaquette <pa...@intel.com>.
hi ,
the Ripple source code is also the base for the tizen web simulator that
is integrated in the tizen sdk [1]
tizen web simulator is also available to open source community [2] on
intel 01.org [3] web site.
currently the idea is to add tizen web apis: specific tizen api, but
also all standard apis that tizen is going to have from several sources
(W3C, Khronos group etc...) - tizen documentation describes all this in
details [4]
may be something could be combined in adding cordova support in ripple?
Paul
[1] https://www.tizen.org/
[2] https://01.org/web-simulator/about
[3] https://01.org/
[4] https://developer.tizen.org/documentation
--
Paul Plaquette
Senior Software Engineer
Open Source Technology Center
Intel Corp.,Montpellier, France
On 07/22/2012 12:14 AM, Filip Maj wrote:
> I am very excited about this!
>
> The cordova suite of projects have never addressed emulation and my go-to
> has always been Ripple.
>
> If there is anything I can do to help please let me know.
>
> Mentors (Jukka?): other than setting up a repository, do you foresee any
> issues with moving ahead with this? At the minimum I understand an audit
> of the code and decoupling existing code from RIM-specific stuff is a
> necessity, as well as a license audit (RAT tool), but, any other issues
> you foresee or any recommendations/guidance on moving this forward that
> our community could help with?
>
> On 7/20/12 4:20 PM, "Gord Tanner" <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> RIM has done a lot of work in Ripple to support the Cordova (PhoneGap)
>> platform, now having almost full support for all of the platform APIs.
>>
>> We(RIM) believes that the natural home for Ripple is in the Apache
>> Software
>> Foundation as a sub-project of Cordova and we want to contribute Ripple to
>> the ASF. However, this is the first time we are doing something like this
>> and the entire company is focused on our BB10 delivery.
>>
>> We have been working very closely with the former Nitobi guys and will
>> also
>> work closely with the Cordova community. We hope to have the support
>> needed
>> in this community to help us find the best way to make this happen.
>>
>> If you are wondering what ripple is you can see the code here:
>> https://github.com/blackberry/Ripple-UI
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Intel Corporation SAS (French simplified joint stock company)
Registered headquarters: "Les Montalets"- 2, rue de Paris,
92196 Meudon Cedex, France
Registration Number: 302 456 199 R.C.S. NANTERRE
Capital: 4,572,000 Euros
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
[ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Posted by Filip Maj <fi...@adobe.com>.
I am very excited about this!
The cordova suite of projects have never addressed emulation and my go-to
has always been Ripple.
If there is anything I can do to help please let me know.
Mentors (Jukka?): other than setting up a repository, do you foresee any
issues with moving ahead with this? At the minimum I understand an audit
of the code and decoupling existing code from RIM-specific stuff is a
necessity, as well as a license audit (RAT tool), but, any other issues
you foresee or any recommendations/guidance on moving this forward that
our community could help with?
On 7/20/12 4:20 PM, "Gord Tanner" <gt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>RIM has done a lot of work in Ripple to support the Cordova (PhoneGap)
>platform, now having almost full support for all of the platform APIs.
>
>We(RIM) believes that the natural home for Ripple is in the Apache
>Software
>Foundation as a sub-project of Cordova and we want to contribute Ripple to
>the ASF. However, this is the first time we are doing something like this
>and the entire company is focused on our BB10 delivery.
>
>We have been working very closely with the former Nitobi guys and will
>also
>work closely with the Cordova community. We hope to have the support
>needed
>in this community to help us find the best way to make this happen.
>
>If you are wondering what ripple is you can see the code here:
>https://github.com/blackberry/Ripple-UI