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Posted to dev@felix.apache.org by da...@apache.org on 2009/10/21 11:29:11 UTC
[Karaf] How about a Karaf single-bundle distro?
Hi all,
I've been thinking about the Karaf bundles... Currently a minimal Karaf
runtime has 29 bundles.
[ 0] [Active ] [ ] [ 0] System Bundle (2.0.0)
[ 1] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Shell OSGi
Commands (1.1.0.SNAPSHOT)
[ 2] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Shell
PackageAdmin Commands (1.1.0.SNAPSHOT)
[ 3] [Active ] [ ] [ 30] Apache MINA Core (2.0.0.M6)
[ 4] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Management
(1.1.0.SNAPSHOT)
[ 5] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Spring
Deployer (1.1.0.SNAPSHOT)
[ 6] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Shell
VariousCommands (1.1.0.SNAPSHOT)
[ 7] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Blueprint
Deployer (1.1.0.SNAPSHOT)
[ 8] [Active ] [ ] [ 30] Apache Mina SSHD :: Core (0.2.0)
[ 9] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Features
Core(1.1.0.SNAPSHOT)
[ 10] [Active ] [ ] [ 30] Apache Felix Gogo Shell Runtime
(0.2.0)
[ 11] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: JAAS
Modules (1.1.0.SNAPSHOT)
[ 12] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Shell SSH
(1.1.0.SNAPSHOT)
[ 13] [Active ] [ ] [ 30] org.osgi.impl.bundle.jmx
(4.2.0.200907080519)
[ 14] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Shell
Console(1.1.0.SNAPSHOT)
[ 15] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Shell
ConfigAdmin Commands (1.1.0.SNAPSHOT)
[ 16] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Shell
Admin (1.1.0.SNAPSHOT)
[ 17] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: JAAS
Config (1.1.0.SNAPSHOT)
[ 18] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Shell Log
Commands (1.1.0.SNAPSHOT)
[ 19] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Features
Management (1.1.0.SNAPSHOT)
[ 20] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Features
Deployer (1.1.0.SNAPSHOT)
[ 21] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Features
Command (1.1.0.SNAPSHOT)
[ 22] [Active ] [ ] [ 11] Apache Felix File Install
(2.0.1.SNAPSHOT)
[ 23] [Active ] [ ] [ 10] Apache Felix Prefrences Service
(1.0.2)
[ 24] [Active ] [ ] [ 10] Apache Felix Configuration Admin
Service (1.2.4)
[ 25] [Active ] [ ] [ 8] OPS4J Pax Logging - API (1.4)
[ 26] [Active ] [ ] [ 8] OPS4J Pax Logging - Service
(1.4)
[ 27] [Active ] [ ] [ 5] OPS4J Pax Url - mvn: (1.1.2)
[ 28] [Active ] [ ] [ 5] OPS4J Pax Url - wrap: (1.1.2)
[ 29] [Active ] [Created ] [ 20] Apache Geronimo Blueprint Bundle
(1.0.0)
Since you pretty much always need all 29 of these I was thinking it might
make sense to provide an alternate assembly (in addition to the current one)
that cuts down the number of bundles a little. For the CXF DOSGi project we
have always had two distros: a multi-bundle one and a single-bundle one. The
single-bundle distro has been very popular because of its ease of
installation. It's great for people just starting and for tutorials.
If we were to do something like this for Karaf we obviously have to choose:
do we put all bundles into a single distro, or do we leave certain
components out. I would personally perfer to have a single distro with
everything, so you could have a Karaf deployment like this:
[ 0] [Active ] [ ] [ 0] System Bundle (2.0.0)
[ 1] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Single
Bundle Distro
If anyone needs to replace or use any of the embedded bundle separately,
they can always go back to the current Karaf distro.
Thoughts anyone? I'd be willing to help out creating this...
Best regards,
David
Re: [Karaf] How about a Karaf single-bundle distro?
Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.
I think Filippo's suggestion about the features command would help a bit.
Bundles are somewhat low levels things that end users, administrators
or deployers should not have to deal with too much.
We should enhance the features command to provide this high level view
of what's inside Karaf.
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 14:20, David Bosschaert
<da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I actually agree with Jeremias and Filippo as well that for deployment
> multiple bundles is definitely better. However my experience is also that
> people new to OSGi are sometimes hesitant to get started with something if
> it involves a large number of bundles. For CXF-DOSGi having an additional
> single-bundle distro helped people getting started quickly, many people move
> to the multi-bundle distro later because of its obvious benefits.
>
> If nobody sees the need for this I'd be happy to keep going without it. It
> was just a thought and as I said, an additional distro not replacing the
> current assembly...
>
> Cheers,
>
> David
>
> 2009/10/21 Jeremias Maerki <de...@jeremias-maerki.ch>
>
>> I agree with Filippo. Aggregated bundles kind of defeat the purpose of
>> OSGi IMO and causes code duplication at runtime, making memory
>> consumption higher than necessary.
>>
>> On 21.10.2009 12:53:14 Filippo Diotalevi wrote:
>> > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:29 AM, <da...@apache.org> wrote:
>> > > Hi all,
>> > >
>> > > [ 0] [Active ] [ ] [ 0] System Bundle (2.0.0)
>> > > [ 1] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf ::
>> Single
>> > > Bundle Distro
>> > >
>> > > If anyone needs to replace or use any of the embedded bundle
>> separately,
>> > > they can always go back to the current Karaf distro.
>> > >
>> > > Thoughts anyone? I'd be willing to help out creating this...
>> >
>> > Honestly, I wouldn't use such a distribution.
>> > I need to know which bundles are installed in the container, also
>> > considering that there are some bundles that provide significant
>> > services (blueprint and fileinstall, to mention the first two), and
>> > not only bundles providing APIs.
>> >
>> > As an alternative solution, I'd enhance the feature paradigm, creating
>> > a command to list only the features installed.
>> > Something like:
>> >
>> > features:list --> shows only the features installed, f.i.
>> > [ 0] [Active ] [ ] [ 0] System Bundle (2.0.0)
>> > [ 1] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Basic
>> Feature
>> >
>> > and
>> > features:available --> shows all the available features (what is
>> > displayed now by features:list)
>> >
>> > In any case, I would preserve a fine grained bundle list to allow the
>> > user to understand what's installed.
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Filippo Diotalevi
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeremias Maerki
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>
>>
>
--
Cheers,
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com
Re: [Karaf] How about a Karaf single-bundle distro?
Posted by David Bosschaert <da...@gmail.com>.
I actually agree with Jeremias and Filippo as well that for deployment
multiple bundles is definitely better. However my experience is also that
people new to OSGi are sometimes hesitant to get started with something if
it involves a large number of bundles. For CXF-DOSGi having an additional
single-bundle distro helped people getting started quickly, many people move
to the multi-bundle distro later because of its obvious benefits.
If nobody sees the need for this I'd be happy to keep going without it. It
was just a thought and as I said, an additional distro not replacing the
current assembly...
Cheers,
David
2009/10/21 Jeremias Maerki <de...@jeremias-maerki.ch>
> I agree with Filippo. Aggregated bundles kind of defeat the purpose of
> OSGi IMO and causes code duplication at runtime, making memory
> consumption higher than necessary.
>
> On 21.10.2009 12:53:14 Filippo Diotalevi wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:29 AM, <da...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > [ 0] [Active ] [ ] [ 0] System Bundle (2.0.0)
> > > [ 1] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf ::
> Single
> > > Bundle Distro
> > >
> > > If anyone needs to replace or use any of the embedded bundle
> separately,
> > > they can always go back to the current Karaf distro.
> > >
> > > Thoughts anyone? I'd be willing to help out creating this...
> >
> > Honestly, I wouldn't use such a distribution.
> > I need to know which bundles are installed in the container, also
> > considering that there are some bundles that provide significant
> > services (blueprint and fileinstall, to mention the first two), and
> > not only bundles providing APIs.
> >
> > As an alternative solution, I'd enhance the feature paradigm, creating
> > a command to list only the features installed.
> > Something like:
> >
> > features:list --> shows only the features installed, f.i.
> > [ 0] [Active ] [ ] [ 0] System Bundle (2.0.0)
> > [ 1] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Basic
> Feature
> >
> > and
> > features:available --> shows all the available features (what is
> > displayed now by features:list)
> >
> > In any case, I would preserve a fine grained bundle list to allow the
> > user to understand what's installed.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Filippo Diotalevi
> >
>
>
>
> Jeremias Maerki
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>
>
Re: [Karaf] How about a Karaf single-bundle distro?
Posted by David Bosschaert <da...@gmail.com>.
I actually agree with Jeremias and Filippo as well that for deployment
multiple bundles is definitely better. However my experience is also that
people new to OSGi are sometimes hesitant to get started with something if
it involves a large number of bundles. For CXF-DOSGi having an additional
single-bundle distro helped people getting started quickly, many people move
to the multi-bundle distro later because of its obvious benefits.
If nobody sees the need for this I'd be happy to keep going without it. It
was just a thought and as I said, an additional distro not replacing the
current assembly...
Cheers,
David
2009/10/21 Jeremias Maerki <de...@jeremias-maerki.ch>
> I agree with Filippo. Aggregated bundles kind of defeat the purpose of
> OSGi IMO and causes code duplication at runtime, making memory
> consumption higher than necessary.
>
> On 21.10.2009 12:53:14 Filippo Diotalevi wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:29 AM, <da...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > [ 0] [Active ] [ ] [ 0] System Bundle (2.0.0)
> > > [ 1] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf ::
> Single
> > > Bundle Distro
> > >
> > > If anyone needs to replace or use any of the embedded bundle
> separately,
> > > they can always go back to the current Karaf distro.
> > >
> > > Thoughts anyone? I'd be willing to help out creating this...
> >
> > Honestly, I wouldn't use such a distribution.
> > I need to know which bundles are installed in the container, also
> > considering that there are some bundles that provide significant
> > services (blueprint and fileinstall, to mention the first two), and
> > not only bundles providing APIs.
> >
> > As an alternative solution, I'd enhance the feature paradigm, creating
> > a command to list only the features installed.
> > Something like:
> >
> > features:list --> shows only the features installed, f.i.
> > [ 0] [Active ] [ ] [ 0] System Bundle (2.0.0)
> > [ 1] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Basic
> Feature
> >
> > and
> > features:available --> shows all the available features (what is
> > displayed now by features:list)
> >
> > In any case, I would preserve a fine grained bundle list to allow the
> > user to understand what's installed.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Filippo Diotalevi
> >
>
>
>
> Jeremias Maerki
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>
>
Re: [Karaf] How about a Karaf single-bundle distro?
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <de...@jeremias-maerki.ch>.
I agree with Filippo. Aggregated bundles kind of defeat the purpose of
OSGi IMO and causes code duplication at runtime, making memory
consumption higher than necessary.
On 21.10.2009 12:53:14 Filippo Diotalevi wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:29 AM, <da...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > [ 0] [Active ] [ ] [ 0] System Bundle (2.0.0)
> > [ 1] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Single
> > Bundle Distro
> >
> > If anyone needs to replace or use any of the embedded bundle separately,
> > they can always go back to the current Karaf distro.
> >
> > Thoughts anyone? I'd be willing to help out creating this...
>
> Honestly, I wouldn't use such a distribution.
> I need to know which bundles are installed in the container, also
> considering that there are some bundles that provide significant
> services (blueprint and fileinstall, to mention the first two), and
> not only bundles providing APIs.
>
> As an alternative solution, I'd enhance the feature paradigm, creating
> a command to list only the features installed.
> Something like:
>
> features:list --> shows only the features installed, f.i.
> [ 0] [Active ] [ ] [ 0] System Bundle (2.0.0)
> [ 1] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Basic Feature
>
> and
> features:available --> shows all the available features (what is
> displayed now by features:list)
>
> In any case, I would preserve a fine grained bundle list to allow the
> user to understand what's installed.
>
>
> --
> Filippo Diotalevi
>
Jeremias Maerki
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [Karaf] How about a Karaf single-bundle distro?
Posted by Filippo Diotalevi <fi...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:29 AM, <da...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> [ 0] [Active ] [ ] [ 0] System Bundle (2.0.0)
> [ 1] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Single
> Bundle Distro
>
> If anyone needs to replace or use any of the embedded bundle separately,
> they can always go back to the current Karaf distro.
>
> Thoughts anyone? I'd be willing to help out creating this...
Honestly, I wouldn't use such a distribution.
I need to know which bundles are installed in the container, also
considering that there are some bundles that provide significant
services (blueprint and fileinstall, to mention the first two), and
not only bundles providing APIs.
As an alternative solution, I'd enhance the feature paradigm, creating
a command to list only the features installed.
Something like:
features:list --> shows only the features installed, f.i.
[ 0] [Active ] [ ] [ 0] System Bundle (2.0.0)
[ 1] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Basic Feature
and
features:available --> shows all the available features (what is
displayed now by features:list)
In any case, I would preserve a fine grained bundle list to allow the
user to understand what's installed.
--
Filippo Diotalevi
Re: [Karaf] How about a Karaf single-bundle distro?
Posted by Filippo Diotalevi <fi...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:29 AM, <da...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> [ 0] [Active ] [ ] [ 0] System Bundle (2.0.0)
> [ 1] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Single
> Bundle Distro
>
> If anyone needs to replace or use any of the embedded bundle separately,
> they can always go back to the current Karaf distro.
>
> Thoughts anyone? I'd be willing to help out creating this...
Honestly, I wouldn't use such a distribution.
I need to know which bundles are installed in the container, also
considering that there are some bundles that provide significant
services (blueprint and fileinstall, to mention the first two), and
not only bundles providing APIs.
As an alternative solution, I'd enhance the feature paradigm, creating
a command to list only the features installed.
Something like:
features:list --> shows only the features installed, f.i.
[ 0] [Active ] [ ] [ 0] System Bundle (2.0.0)
[ 1] [Active ] [Created ] [ 30] Apache Felix Karaf :: Basic Feature
and
features:available --> shows all the available features (what is
displayed now by features:list)
In any case, I would preserve a fine grained bundle list to allow the
user to understand what's installed.
--
Filippo Diotalevi
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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