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Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by cm...@collab.net on 2002/07/16 21:01:38 UTC
svn switch arg ordering
Current, `svn switch' is run like so:
svn switch [TARGET] REPOS_URL
Anybody adamently opposed to my changing this to:
svn switch REPOS_URL [TARGET]
?
The current syntax screws me up every time, and I daresay I probably
have used `svn switch' in "real life" situations more than most
folks. It would make a syntax a little closer to that of `svn
import', and is more consistent with nearly all subcommands by having
the optional TARGET as the final argument.
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Re: svn switch arg ordering
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@xbc.nu>.
Karl Fogel wrote:
>Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net> writes:
>
>
>>When I run 'switch', I speak the command out loud to myself in
>>English : "I want to switch TARGET to REPOS_URL". That's how I
>>always get the command right.
>>
>>
>
>I'm sorry, Subversion was designed for Russian speakers. You'll just
>have to deal.
>
>-Karl, who doesn't speak Russian, but hopes that the natural way to
> say this in Russian involves putting REPOS_URL first :-).
>
>
/me takes away kfogel's hopes, administering extra helping of
disillusionment.
--
Brane Čibej <br...@xbc.nu> http://www.xbc.nu/brane/
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Re: svn switch arg ordering
Posted by Karl Fogel <kf...@newton.ch.collab.net>.
Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net> writes:
> When I run 'switch', I speak the command out loud to myself in
> English : "I want to switch TARGET to REPOS_URL". That's how I
> always get the command right.
I'm sorry, Subversion was designed for Russian speakers. You'll just
have to deal.
-Karl, who doesn't speak Russian, but hopes that the natural way to
say this in Russian involves putting REPOS_URL first :-).
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Re: svn switch arg ordering
Posted by mark benedetto king <bk...@inquira.com>.
On Wed, Jul 17, 2002 at 12:47:26AM -0500, Karl Fogel wrote:
> Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net> writes:
> > When I run 'switch', I speak the command out loud to myself in
> > English : "I want to switch TARGET to REPOS_URL". That's how I
> > always get the command right.
>
> If it helps at all, Ben, think of it like the Unix "ln" command. Your
> intuition, as described above, would make you want to type
>
> $ ln -s myshortcut /usr/local/BerkeleyDB.4.0/bin/db_recover
>
> or whatever, yet the syntax is actually:
>
> $ ln -s /usr/local/BerkeleyDB.4.0/bin/db_recover myshortcut
>
> So if you can't make this switch syntax seem intuitive, perhaps you
> can at least say to yourself "Oh, that's right, this is unintuitive in
> the same way as `ln'."
Tangent:
Assumption: "ln" without the -s is fairly intuitive.
Proposal: Thinking about the -s as a "establish a symlink from foo to bar"
is the source of the counter-intuitiveness. Instead, "ln -s foo bar"
should be read as "do what 'ln foo bar' would have done, but do it
in a symbolic way".
Okay, back to the real thread:
Since "svn cp URL PATH" is very much like the proposed behaviour of
"svn co URL PATH", why not do away with "svn co" completely?
It is my understanding that the difference between "svn co" and "svn cp"
is that "svn cp URL PATH" also does an "svn add PATH". What if this
add operation was conditional on whether PATH was inside a WC or not?
This would make every use-case I can think of work, save one: when
the user wants to "svn co URL PATH" inside a WC without adding PATH to
that WC. I don't think I'd ever really want to do that, but we could
add an option to "cp" which is "--no-add".
This seems to elegantly model the interaction between the user, the WC,
and the repository. Also, it encourages people to think in terms of the
versioned filesystem, rather than "svn is just a nicer CVS".
One argument against this proposal is that the user may not be aware that
PATH is, in fact, part of a WC, and then might be surprised by the auto-add
(requiring --no-add implies that the user *knew* that PATH was part of
a WC).
--ben
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Re: svn switch arg ordering
Posted by Karl Fogel <kf...@newton.ch.collab.net>.
Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net> writes:
> When I run 'switch', I speak the command out loud to myself in
> English : "I want to switch TARGET to REPOS_URL". That's how I
> always get the command right.
If it helps at all, Ben, think of it like the Unix "ln" command. Your
intuition, as described above, would make you want to type
$ ln -s myshortcut /usr/local/BerkeleyDB.4.0/bin/db_recover
or whatever, yet the syntax is actually:
$ ln -s /usr/local/BerkeleyDB.4.0/bin/db_recover myshortcut
So if you can't make this switch syntax seem intuitive, perhaps you
can at least say to yourself "Oh, that's right, this is unintuitive in
the same way as `ln'."
-K
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Re: svn switch arg ordering
Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net>.
Karl Fogel <kf...@newton.ch.collab.net> writes:
> cmpilato@collab.net writes:
> > Anybody adamently opposed to my changing this to:
> >
> > svn switch REPOS_URL [TARGET]
>
> +1
Don't shoot me, but this proposal exactly contradicts my intuition.
When I run 'switch', I speak the command out loud to myself in
English : "I want to switch TARGET to REPOS_URL". That's how I
always get the command right.
But I'm clearly outvoted, so I guess my -0 doesn't mean much. :-)
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Re: svn switch arg ordering
Posted by Karl Fogel <kf...@newton.ch.collab.net>.
cmpilato@collab.net writes:
> Anybody adamently opposed to my changing this to:
>
> svn switch REPOS_URL [TARGET]
+1
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Re: svn switch arg ordering
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <je...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Jul 16, 2002 at 04:01:38PM -0500, cmpilato@collab.net wrote:
> Current, `svn switch' is run like so:
>
> svn switch [TARGET] REPOS_URL
>
> Anybody adamently opposed to my changing this to:
>
> svn switch REPOS_URL [TARGET]
>
> ?
+1 to the new ordering. -- justin
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Re: svn switch arg ordering
Posted by Garrett Rooney <ro...@electricjellyfish.net>.
On Wed, Jul 17, 2002 at 06:41:08AM +0200, Branko _ibej wrote:
> Karl Fogel wrote:
>
> >cmpilato@collab.net writes:
> >
> >
> >>Yessir. Although, it occurs to me that this will deviate from CVS
> >>behavior. And on something as basic as checkout, I'm not sure if
> >>that's a good thing.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Do we use "-d" for anything else? It would be nice to free up the
> >short option...
> >
> >
>
> Let's just kill -d. It doesn't make sense to keep it just for CVS
> "compatibility".
+1
-garrett
--
garrett rooney Remember, any design flaw you're
rooneg@electricjellyfish.net sufficiently snide about becomes
http://electricjellyfish.net/ a feature. -- Dan Sugalski
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Re: svn switch arg ordering
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@xbc.nu>.
Karl Fogel wrote:
>cmpilato@collab.net writes:
>
>
>>Yessir. Although, it occurs to me that this will deviate from CVS
>>behavior. And on something as basic as checkout, I'm not sure if
>>that's a good thing.
>>
>>
>
>Do we use "-d" for anything else? It would be nice to free up the
>short option...
>
>
Let's just kill -d. It doesn't make sense to keep it just for CVS
"compatibility".
--
Brane Čibej <br...@xbc.nu> http://www.xbc.nu/brane/
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Re: svn switch arg ordering
Posted by Karl Fogel <kf...@newton.ch.collab.net>.
cmpilato@collab.net writes:
> Yessir. Although, it occurs to me that this will deviate from CVS
> behavior. And on something as basic as checkout, I'm not sure if
> that's a good thing.
Do we use "-d" for anything else? It would be nice to free up the
short option...
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Re: svn switch arg ordering
Posted by cm...@collab.net.
Karl Fogel <kf...@newton.ch.collab.net> writes:
> cmpilato@collab.net writes:
> > > How about
> > >
> > > svn co REPOS_URL [TARGET]
> > >
> > > at the same time?
> >
> > Oh, yes, I was *hoping* somebody would say that! I wasn't gonna push
> > for two changes at once though.
>
> Actually, I didn't understand that one. Checkout is already in that
> order, just demands a "-d". Is the proposal simply to make the "-d"
> unnecessary?
Yessir. Although, it occurs to me that this will deviate from CVS
behavior. And on something as basic as checkout, I'm not sure if
that's a good thing.
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Re: svn switch arg ordering
Posted by Karl Fogel <kf...@newton.ch.collab.net>.
cmpilato@collab.net writes:
> > How about
> >
> > svn co REPOS_URL [TARGET]
> >
> > at the same time?
>
> Oh, yes, I was *hoping* somebody would say that! I wasn't gonna push
> for two changes at once though.
Actually, I didn't understand that one. Checkout is already in that
order, just demands a "-d". Is the proposal simply to make the "-d"
unnecessary?
-K
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Re: svn switch arg ordering
Posted by cm...@collab.net.
cmpilato@collab.net writes:
> Philip Martin <ph...@codematters.co.uk> writes:
>
> > cmpilato@collab.net writes:
> >
> > > Current, `svn switch' is run like so:
> > >
> > > svn switch [TARGET] REPOS_URL
> > >
> > > Anybody adamently opposed to my changing this to:
> > >
> > > svn switch REPOS_URL [TARGET]
> >
> > How about
> >
> > svn co REPOS_URL [TARGET]
> >
> > at the same time?
>
> Oh, yes, I was *hoping* somebody would say that! I wasn't gonna push
> for two changes at once though.
>
> I will make both of these changes later tonight (unless someone beats
> me to them).
Well, I'm not going to get to this tonight. Will try to do this on
the train during the commit -- heh, my fingers just naturally type
that now -- that is, during the *commute* to work tomorrow.
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Re: svn switch arg ordering
Posted by cm...@collab.net.
Philip Martin <ph...@codematters.co.uk> writes:
> cmpilato@collab.net writes:
>
> > Current, `svn switch' is run like so:
> >
> > svn switch [TARGET] REPOS_URL
> >
> > Anybody adamently opposed to my changing this to:
> >
> > svn switch REPOS_URL [TARGET]
>
> How about
>
> svn co REPOS_URL [TARGET]
>
> at the same time?
Oh, yes, I was *hoping* somebody would say that! I wasn't gonna push
for two changes at once though.
I will make both of these changes later tonight (unless someone beats
me to them).
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Re: svn switch arg ordering
Posted by Philip Martin <ph...@codematters.co.uk>.
cmpilato@collab.net writes:
> Current, `svn switch' is run like so:
>
> svn switch [TARGET] REPOS_URL
>
> Anybody adamently opposed to my changing this to:
>
> svn switch REPOS_URL [TARGET]
How about
svn co REPOS_URL [TARGET]
at the same time?
--
Philip Martin
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Re: svn switch arg ordering
Posted by Garrett Rooney <ro...@electricjellyfish.net>.
On Tue, Jul 16, 2002 at 04:01:38PM -0500, cmpilato@collab.net wrote:
> Current, `svn switch' is run like so:
>
> svn switch [TARGET] REPOS_URL
>
> Anybody adamently opposed to my changing this to:
>
> svn switch REPOS_URL [TARGET]
>
> ?
>
> The current syntax screws me up every time, and I daresay I probably
> have used `svn switch' in "real life" situations more than most
> folks. It would make a syntax a little closer to that of `svn
> import', and is more consistent with nearly all subcommands by having
> the optional TARGET as the final argument.
+1, that makes a lot more sense to me, and does seem to fit better
with the other subcommands.
-garrett
--
garrett rooney Remember, any design flaw you're
rooneg@electricjellyfish.net sufficiently snide about becomes
http://electricjellyfish.net/ a feature. -- Dan Sugalski
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