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Posted to users@subversion.apache.org by Oliver Marshall <Ol...@g2support.com> on 2011/01/25 09:43:14 UTC
Windows over linux
Hi,
As far as subversion is concerned, is there any reason to go for one OS over another when setting up a new subversion server? Are any of the hooks or features OS dependant?
Olly
Re: Windows over linux
Posted by David Darj <zi...@alagazam.net>.
On 2011-01-26 03:37, Ryan Schmidt wrote:
> On Jan 25, 2011, at 02:43, Oliver Marshall wrote:
>
> If you are equally proficient with all OSes and have no preference, you might want to choose a UNIX-like OS, because many hook script examples will be written assuming that is what you are running. Some may be written in Bash, for example. If you are proficient in writing scripts for windows (batch scripts, or perl, ruby, php, python, etc.) and you feel confident in your ability to translate a Bash script into another language for use on Windows, or if you don't plan to use hook scripts, then using Windows should be no problem.
Hooks are not necessarily scripts.
If you're not comfortable in writing scripts at all, you can use your
favorite programming environment an write the hook "scripts" there.
In my department we have a couple of hooks written in C#, and we serve
our repository through Apache on Windows 2008.
(Of cause these hooks are revision controlled in the svn-repository itself).
So, to sum up the last couple of post, use the environment you and your
company are most comfortable with.
/David
Re: Windows over linux
Posted by Ryan Schmidt <su...@ryandesign.com>.
On Jan 25, 2011, at 02:43, Oliver Marshall wrote:
> As far as subversion is concerned, is there any reason to go for one OS over another when setting up a new subversion server? Are any of the hooks or features OS dependant?
A Subversion server should run well on pretty much any OS. I recommend you use the operating system you are most comfortable administering, because when you have problems, you will not want lack of knowledge of the operating system to compound them.
If you are equally proficient with all OSes and have no preference, you might want to choose a UNIX-like OS, because many hook script examples will be written assuming that is what you are running. Some may be written in Bash, for example. If you are proficient in writing scripts for windows (batch scripts, or perl, ruby, php, python, etc.) and you feel confident in your ability to translate a Bash script into another language for use on Windows, or if you don't plan to use hook scripts, then using Windows should be no problem.
Re: Windows over linux
Posted by Jonathan Paul <jo...@wandisco.com>.
That's a good point. The stuff in the link I sent specifically talks about
client side stuff - I'm not sure if it also applies to the server, as I
don't know enough about what happens at the low level.
On 25 January 2011 10:16, Alexey Bakhirkin <ab...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2011/1/25 Jonathan Paul <jo...@wandisco.com>:
> > In here there is a good explanation of NTFS's shortcomings in relation to
> > subversion: http://superuser.com/questions/15192/bad-ntfs-performance
> > I would also recommend Linux for subversion servers
>
> As far as I can see, that discussion relates to Windows/ntfs vs
> Linux/ext3 client performance. Does it apply to server side?
>
Re: Windows over linux
Posted by Alexey Bakhirkin <ab...@gmail.com>.
2011/1/25 Jonathan Paul <jo...@wandisco.com>:
> In here there is a good explanation of NTFS's shortcomings in relation to
> subversion: http://superuser.com/questions/15192/bad-ntfs-performance
> I would also recommend Linux for subversion servers
As far as I can see, that discussion relates to Windows/ntfs vs
Linux/ext3 client performance. Does it apply to server side?
Re: Windows over linux
Posted by Jonathan Paul <jo...@wandisco.com>.
In here there is a good explanation of NTFS's shortcomings in relation to
subversion: http://superuser.com/questions/15192/bad-ntfs-performance
<http://superuser.com/questions/15192/bad-ntfs-performance>I would also
recommend Linux for subversion servers
Re: Windows over linux
Posted by Alexey Bakhirkin <ab...@gmail.com>.
> As far as subversion is concerned, is there any reason to go for one OS over
> another when setting up a new subversion server?
NTFS (specifically, its implementation in Windows) is often said to
have poor performance (not sure whether this applies to subversion).
Also if the server only hosts subversion, Windows would consume
excessive amount of resources.
Re: Windows over linux
Posted by Stephen Connolly <st...@gmail.com>.
windows has harsh file locking symmantics, choose linux.
(top post because android refuses to let me bottom post.. or let me know
what setting to tweak on froyo)
- Stephen
---
Sent from my Android phone, so random spelling mistakes, random nonsense
words and other nonsense are a direct result of using swype to type on the
screen
On 25 Jan 2011 08:43, "Oliver Marshall" <Ol...@g2support.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> As far as subversion is concerned, is there any reason to go for one OS
over another when setting up a new subversion server? Are any of the hooks
or features OS dependant?
>
> Olly
Re: Windows over linux
Posted by David Brodbeck <br...@uw.edu>.
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> And if the skillset in your shop is primarily Windows, using Solaris
> or Linux would require a lot of expensive training, or hiring an
> expensive new system admin (or contracting for one on an as-needed
> basis), for a single service.
>
Yup. (Solaris licensing has also gotten extremely expensive since the
Oracle buy-out, FWIW, and it's no longer free for anything except
development and evaluation.)
Subversion is a good cross-platform app, so I would suggest that most people
should go with whatever they have the most institutional knowledge about;
e.g., a Windows shop should probably host it on Windows, and a site that
runs mostly Linux should go with Linux. It's flexible enough that there's
no reason to introduce a new OS just for the sake of Subversion.
With modern versions of those operating systems any stability differences
are, IMHO, minor compared to the problems that happen when you ask people to
suddenly administer an OS they're unfamiliar with. Keep in mind in a
professional environment, installing and configuring the OS itself is
actually the easy part of the problem -- integrating a new, "foreign" OS
into existing backup, authentication, and network monitoring infrastructure
can be a real challenge.
--
David Brodbeck
System Administrator, Linguistics
University of Washington
Enough with Re: Windows over linux
Posted by Pat Farrell <pf...@pfarrell.com>.
Its time to stop the Windows vs Linux vs OS-X discussion, its reached
being pointless, and will soon escalate to a flame war.
--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/
unsubscribe
Posted by Brent Rhea <br...@yahoo.com>.
unsubscribe
Re: Windows over linux
Posted by Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 12:45, Chris Albertson
<al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 11:56, Chris Albertson
>> <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> And if the skillset in your shop is primarily Windows, using Solaris
>> or Linux would require a lot of expensive training,
>
> People who grow up with Windows all remember just how hard it was to
> learn all the work-around for Windows many quirks and problems. They
> think it will take years to re-learn that for another OS. No. those
> other OSes basically "just work". Going from bare hardware (no OS)
> to a running SVN server under Linux takes about an hour or maybe two
> and not to many mouse clicks. Most of that time is waiting for the
> software to download, the SVN software is pulled down from the net and
> automatically installed when you click the "SVN Server" check box then
> "install". This is not a high-skill level task, you are not
> building a three tier web site.
In a corporate setting with change management, security & audit
controls and everything else associated, things are not so simple. You
cannot simply download an ISO, install the OS, and say "done! We don't
have to do anything else here."
Re: Windows over linux
Posted by Chris Albertson <al...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 11:56, Chris Albertson
> <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> And if the skillset in your shop is primarily Windows, using Solaris
> or Linux would require a lot of expensive training,
People who grow up with Windows all remember just how hard it was to
learn all the work-around for Windows many quirks and problems. They
think it will take years to re-learn that for another OS. No. those
other OSes basically "just work". Going from bare hardware (no OS)
to a running SVN server under Linux takes about an hour or maybe two
and not to many mouse clicks. Most of that time is waiting for the
software to download, the SVN software is pulled down from the net and
automatically installed when you click the "SVN Server" check box then
"install". This is not a high-skill level task, you are not
building a three tier web site.
--
=====
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
Re: Windows over linux
Posted by Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 11:56, Chris Albertson
<al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 12:43 AM, Oliver Marshall
> <Ol...@g2support.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as subversion is concerned, is there any reason to go for one OS over
>> another when setting up a new subversion server? Are any of the hooks or
>> features OS dependant?
>
> Choose the OS that is the best stabilty nd the best file system
> performance. That would be Solaris and ZFS. But more people know
> about Linux so that is what they recommend.
And if the skillset in your shop is primarily Windows, using Solaris
or Linux would require a lot of expensive training, or hiring an
expensive new system admin (or contracting for one on an as-needed
basis), for a single service.
> But do think about the
> file system and how you will be able to continue running and not have
> to re-boot or power down if a drive fails. Lots of ways to handle
> that.
That's going to vary not just by OS but by implementation, hardware &
drivers as well. My repositories are stored on a SAN, so drive failure
is completely abstracted from the host OS of the Subversion server.
> Last I looked (a while back) Windows required a re-boot after
> almost any trivial change of settings.
It seems like it's been a very long time since you've looked at
Windows. I'm trying to remember the last time we had to reboot our
Windows Subversion server for anything other than an OS or other
critical software patch. Certainly not for "trivial" settings changes.
> It would be good if you could
> add additional storage space or even swap out drive without a re-boot.
> ZFS is made just for that.
Windows can handle this as well. Again, it's a matter of having the
right hardware that's designed for the application. We dynamically
expand LUNs on our SAN regularly - no reboot of Windows required. Or,
if needed, detach storage & attach new storage, again without a
reboot. Hot swapping of physical drives requires hardware support too.
> Windows is not as nice for remote access.
> Again because you need to re-boot and of course the re-boot kills the
> remote link.
Windows remote access works just fine, in fact that's how I access
*all* of my servers - RDP, not even the virtual console under VMware.
Or for scripting, WMI & WinRM. When the system comes back up from a
reboot, you can remote in right away.
Windows is not the third-rate OS you're making it out to be in this post.
Re: Windows over linux
Posted by Thorsten Schöning <ts...@am-soft.de>.
Guten Tag Thomas Loy,
am Dienstag, 25. Januar 2011 um 18:02 schrieben Sie:
> Agreed, but another benefit of any Unix OS is the ability to use
> symbolic links.
Windows Vista onwards provide those and there's a cute little
extension for Windows Explorer which make life even easier.
http://schinagl.priv.at/nt/hardlinkshellext/hardlinkshellext.html
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Thorsten Schöning
--
Thorsten Schöning
AM-SoFT IT-Systeme - Hameln | Potsdam | Leipzig
Telefon: Potsdam: 0331-743881-0
E-Mail: tschoening@am-soft.de
Web: http://www.am-soft.de
AM-SoFT GmbH IT-Systeme, Konsumhof 1-5, 14482 Potsdam
Amtsgericht Potsdam HRB 21278 P, Geschäftsführer: Andreas Muchow
Re: Windows over linux
Posted by Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 12:02, Thomas Loy <Th...@cbeyond.net> wrote:
> Agreed, but another benefit of any Unix OS is the ability to use symbolic links. They aren't in Windows and they give some added stability to some things you may do such as link a specific version name to a more generic name you use in the build script. This makes maintenance long term a lot easier. I'm working on a bunch of scripts right now where we had a version specific taskdef jar that I'm now using a symlink to create a generic jar name -- so I won't have to edit all the taskdef jar names in the scripts again.
Symlink support is a client issue. AFAIK, a Subversion repository
hosted on Windows can store & manage symlinks from working copies
created/updated on non-Windows clients.
RE: Windows over linux
Posted by Thomas Loy <Th...@cbeyond.net>.
Agreed, but another benefit of any Unix OS is the ability to use symbolic links. They aren't in Windows and they give some added stability to some things you may do such as link a specific version name to a more generic name you use in the build script. This makes maintenance long term a lot easier. I'm working on a bunch of scripts right now where we had a version specific taskdef jar that I'm now using a symlink to create a generic jar name -- so I won't have to edit all the taskdef jar names in the scripts again.
Cheers,
Tom
Thomas Loy
Sysops - Build Engineer
Cbeyond
320 Interstate North Pkwy.
Suite 300
Atlanta, GA 30339
(678) 370-2383
thomas.loy@cbeyond.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.chris@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:56 AM
To: Oliver Marshall
Cc: users@subversion.apache.org
Subject: Re: Windows over linux
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 12:43 AM, Oliver Marshall
<Ol...@g2support.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> As far as subversion is concerned, is there any reason to go for one OS over
> another when setting up a new subversion server? Are any of the hooks or
> features OS dependant?
Choose the OS that is the best stabilty nd the best file system
performance. That would be Solaris and ZFS. But more people know
about Linux so that is what they recommend. But do think about the
file system and how you will be able to continue running and not have
to re-boot or power down if a drive fails. Lots of ways to handle
that. Last I looked (a while back) Windows required a re-boot after
almost any trivial change of settings. It would be good if you could
add additional storage space or even swap out drive without a re-boot.
ZFS is made just for that. Windows is not as nice for remote access.
Again because you need to re-boot and of course the re-boot kills the
remote link.
--
=====
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
Re: Windows over linux
Posted by Chris Albertson <al...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 12:43 AM, Oliver Marshall
<Ol...@g2support.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> As far as subversion is concerned, is there any reason to go for one OS over
> another when setting up a new subversion server? Are any of the hooks or
> features OS dependant?
Choose the OS that is the best stabilty nd the best file system
performance. That would be Solaris and ZFS. But more people know
about Linux so that is what they recommend. But do think about the
file system and how you will be able to continue running and not have
to re-boot or power down if a drive fails. Lots of ways to handle
that. Last I looked (a while back) Windows required a re-boot after
almost any trivial change of settings. It would be good if you could
add additional storage space or even swap out drive without a re-boot.
ZFS is made just for that. Windows is not as nice for remote access.
Again because you need to re-boot and of course the re-boot kills the
remote link.
--
=====
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
Re: Windows over linux
Posted by shrinivasan <sh...@collab.net>.
> As far as subversion is concerned, is there any reason to go for one
> OS over another when setting up a new subversion server? Are any of
> the hooks or features OS dependant?
>
Hooks scripts can be written in python or perl so that they can run on
both windows and linux.
But, choosing linux is a better options for the servers.
Linux provides more stability, security and performance.
Regards,
Shrinivasan
CollabNet Support