About Cactus and Quality Assurance

[Marco Barcella <ba...@appiancorp.com>]

Hi,
I would really like to ask the following two things:
1) I am using cactus for unit testing. When should the testing start in
the process of developing some code (beginning, end), in order to have the
best Quality Assurance in the shortest time? And also how to integrate
the testing with the development? Any ideas or links would be greatly
appreciated.
2) Considering to extend Cactus for functional testing, what, other than
HttpUnit,
could/should I integrate? What are the fundamental limits I will encounter?
Thanks a lot,
Marco



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RE: About Cactus and Quality Assurance

[Vincent Massol <vm...@octo.com>]

Vikas,

Most of the weaknesses are mentioned on that page:
http://jakarta.apache.org/cactus/mockobjects.html

More specifically, I would say:

- it is not a generic framework in the sense that it needs specific
development for each API. If tomorrow you wanted to unit test OJB
components (or CORBA servant), cactus would not help you for example. 

- setup is not easy if you're not familiar with container
setup/classloaders. However, this is an area that the Cactus team is
addressing right now. We are concentrating a lot on the Cactus front end
to make it seamless for end users: Maven plugin (already functional),
Eclipse plugin (work in progress), Jetty seamless integration, Cactus
application (not there yet).

- as a user that gives you one more strategy (in-container testing) to
choose from and thus you have define what strategy you want to use on a
given project: when are you going to use JUnit and Mock Objects, when
are you going to use Cactus. Are you going to use standalone HttpUnit or
not, etc. Hopefully, this is currently maturing and we see more and more
where each one fits in the puzzle. There are also books in progress
(including one I am writing) that should help.

But the best persons to answer your question are the other Cactus users!
Let's hear what they have to say! :-)

Cheers,
-Vincent

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vikas Malla [mailto:malla6um@yahoo.co.in]
> Sent: 24 October 2002 19:03
> To: Cactus Users List
> Subject: RE: About Cactus and Quality Assurance
> 
> 
> Vincent,
> 
> What do you think are the real weaknesses of cactus(if any... :-) )?
and
> how do you think they can be resolved ?
> 
> Thanks.
>  Vincent Massol <vm...@octo.com> wrote:
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Marco Barcella [mailto:barcella@appiancorp.com]
> > Sent: 24 October 2002 01:36
> > To: Cactus Users List
> > Subject: About Cactus and Quality Assurance
> >
> > Hi,
> > I would really like to ask the following two things:
> > 1) I am using cactus for unit testing. When should the testing start
> in
> > the process of developing some code (beginning, end), in order to
have
> the
> > best Quality Assurance in the shortest time? And also how to
integrate
> > the testing with the development? Any ideas or links would be
greatly
> > appreciated.
> 
> The best is to do test-first development. Write your unit test first
> (before the code they test). Run the test: they will fail. Write the
> code. One by one the tests will turn from red to green.
> 
> Why is it good?
> - because you get better tests (retrofitting tests to match code is
> always a best effort)
> - because you can then skip the detailed design phase as it is done in
> the unit tests. The unit tests also acts as design documentation.
> - because you will find that, as a result your code under tests is
> better written
> 
> > 2) Considering to extend Cactus for functional testing, what, other
> than
> > HttpUnit,
> > could/should I integrate? What are the fundamental limits I will
> > encounter?
> > Thanks a lot,
> > Marco
> 
> Cool! HttpUnit is already integrated but for checking results only. Do
> you mean you would like to extend Cactus to use it for sending
requests,
> too (as part of a Web conversation)?
> 
> It is definitely possible and I would be happy to help you and offer
> support for that.
> 
> I don't see any fundamental issue (especially as I am happy to let you
> modify Cactus internals to make it more pluggable!).
> 
> Before choosing the tools to use for that you need to tell us what you
> have in mind for functional testing. What would be a typical scenario?
> 
> Thanks
> -Vincent
> 
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: > help@jakarta.apache.org>
> 
> 
> 
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> 
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> Ford models on sale now.


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RE: About Cactus and Quality Assurance

[Vikas Malla <ma...@yahoo.co.in>]

Vincent,

What do you think are the real weaknesses of cactus(if any... :-) )? and how do you think they can be resolved ?

Thanks.
 Vincent Massol <vm...@octo.com> wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marco Barcella [mailto:barcella@appiancorp.com]
> Sent: 24 October 2002 01:36
> To: Cactus Users List
> Subject: About Cactus and Quality Assurance
> 
> Hi,
> I would really like to ask the following two things:
> 1) I am using cactus for unit testing. When should the testing start
in
> the process of developing some code (beginning, end), in order to have
the
> best Quality Assurance in the shortest time? And also how to integrate
> the testing with the development? Any ideas or links would be greatly
> appreciated.

The best is to do test-first development. Write your unit test first
(before the code they test). Run the test: they will fail. Write the
code. One by one the tests will turn from red to green.

Why is it good? 
- because you get better tests (retrofitting tests to match code is
always a best effort)
- because you can then skip the detailed design phase as it is done in
the unit tests. The unit tests also acts as design documentation.
- because you will find that, as a result your code under tests is
better written

> 2) Considering to extend Cactus for functional testing, what, other
than
> HttpUnit,
> could/should I integrate? What are the fundamental limits I will
> encounter?
> Thanks a lot,
> Marco

Cool! HttpUnit is already integrated but for checking results only. Do
you mean you would like to extend Cactus to use it for sending requests,
too (as part of a Web conversation)?

It is definitely possible and I would be happy to help you and offer
support for that.

I don't see any fundamental issue (especially as I am happy to let you
modify Cactus internals to make it more pluggable!). 

Before choosing the tools to use for that you need to tell us what you
have in mind for functional testing. What would be a typical scenario?

Thanks
-Vincent

> 
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: > help@jakarta.apache.org>



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RE: About Cactus and Quality Assurance

[Marco Barcella <ba...@appiancorp.com>]

Thanks a lot,
I think your email was very helpful for me, I will be
even more specific:

1) Using Ant, and running 10 tests in one build.xml,
how can I complete all of them, even if the third one
(for example) fails. Right now, since I don't catch
the exceptions the build fails and the following tests
are not run.

2) I am thinking about this functional test:
I click on a link and then I submit a form, then
I go and click on a second link and check if the
result of that form submission is in the state and
is correct. I would like to do this in one single test
as the two requests (first and second link) are related.
What is the best way to do it and extend the concept to
multiple requests in series?

Thanks a lot,
Marco

<>-----Original Message-----
<>From: Vincent Massol [mailto:vmassol@octo.com]
<>Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 8:51 AM
<>To: 'Cactus Users List'
<>Subject: RE: About Cactus and Quality Assurance
<>
<>
<>
<>
<>> -----Original Message-----
<>> From: Marco Barcella [mailto:barcella@appiancorp.com]
<>> Sent: 24 October 2002 01:36
<>> To: Cactus Users List
<>> Subject: About Cactus and Quality Assurance
<>>
<>> Hi,
<>> I would really like to ask the following two things:
<>> 1) I am using cactus for unit testing. When should the testing start
<>in
<>> the process of developing some code (beginning, end), in order to have
<>the
<>> best Quality Assurance in the shortest time? And also how to integrate
<>> the testing with the development? Any ideas or links would be greatly
<>> appreciated.
<>
<>The best is to do test-first development. Write your unit test first
<>(before the code they test). Run the test: they will fail. Write the
<>code. One by one the tests will turn from red to green.
<>
<>Why is it good?
<>- because you get better tests (retrofitting tests to match code is
<>always a best effort)
<>- because you can then skip the detailed design phase as it is done in
<>the unit tests. The unit tests also acts as design documentation.
<>- because you will find that, as a result your code under tests is
<>better written
<>
<>> 2) Considering to extend Cactus for functional testing, what, other
<>than
<>> HttpUnit,
<>> could/should I integrate? What are the fundamental limits I will
<>> encounter?
<>> Thanks a lot,
<>> Marco
<>
<>Cool! HttpUnit is already integrated but for checking results only. Do
<>you mean you would like to extend Cactus to use it for sending requests,
<>too (as part of a Web conversation)?
<>
<>It is definitely possible and I would be happy to help you and offer
<>support for that.
<>
<>I don't see any fundamental issue (especially as I am happy to let you
<>modify Cactus internals to make it more pluggable!).
<>
<>Before choosing the tools to use for that you need to tell us what you
<>have in mind for functional testing. What would be a typical scenario?
<>
<>Thanks
<>-Vincent
<>
<>>
<>>
<>>
<>> --
<>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <mailto:cactus-user-
<>> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
<>> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:cactus-user-
<>> help@jakarta.apache.org>
<>
<>
<>
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<>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>



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RE: About Cactus and Quality Assurance

[Vincent Massol <vm...@octo.com>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marco Barcella [mailto:barcella@appiancorp.com]
> Sent: 24 October 2002 01:36
> To: Cactus Users List
> Subject: About Cactus and Quality Assurance
> 
> Hi,
> I would really like to ask the following two things:
> 1) I am using cactus for unit testing. When should the testing start
in
> the process of developing some code (beginning, end), in order to have
the
> best Quality Assurance in the shortest time? And also how to integrate
> the testing with the development? Any ideas or links would be greatly
> appreciated.

The best is to do test-first development. Write your unit test first
(before the code they test). Run the test: they will fail. Write the
code. One by one the tests will turn from red to green.

Why is it good? 
- because you get better tests (retrofitting tests to match code is
always a best effort)
- because you can then skip the detailed design phase as it is done in
the unit tests. The unit tests also acts as design documentation.
- because you will find that, as a result your code under tests is
better written

> 2) Considering to extend Cactus for functional testing, what, other
than
> HttpUnit,
> could/should I integrate? What are the fundamental limits I will
> encounter?
> Thanks a lot,
> Marco

Cool! HttpUnit is already integrated but for checking results only. Do
you mean you would like to extend Cactus to use it for sending requests,
too (as part of a Web conversation)?

It is definitely possible and I would be happy to help you and offer
support for that.

I don't see any fundamental issue (especially as I am happy to let you
modify Cactus internals to make it more pluggable!). 

Before choosing the tools to use for that you need to tell us what you
have in mind for functional testing. What would be a typical scenario?

Thanks
-Vincent

> 
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <mailto:cactus-user-
> unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:cactus-user-
> help@jakarta.apache.org>



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