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Posted to dev@forrest.apache.org by Robert Koberg <ro...@koberg.com> on 2002/11/02 19:40:30 UTC
on the SVG tool post from Betrand
[I think he posted it to this list, either that or cocoon-dev, but I deleted it
and it is not showing in the archives yet]
Betrand asked about an open source SVG drawing tool. I do not know of one, but I
think you could put one together in Flash.
Now, I would rather smoke a turd than work in the painful Flash interface, but
there are some really cool things you can do (constant connections without page
reloads). Here is a good article I just came across:
http://www.devshed.com/Client_Side/Flash/XMLSockets/page2.html
I remember seeing some example drawing applications floating around. They could
be adapted to send the properties of the drawing to the server in SVG XML. Or
data could be saved from the authoring app to be used by a viewer app. You make
the viewer app in flash that reads a some XML config stream to setup some basic
UI objects, finds the data file and it displays the rendering -- perhaps with
additional functionality built into the player. Or you could make a multiuser
whiteboard. Lots of things...
I wish I had time to work on something like that, but I don't currently. But I
could help out if someone takes the lead.
best,
-Rob
Re: on the SVG tool post from Betrand
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
FYI I have summarized the replies that I got at
http://outerthought.net/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=GraphicalWikiDream.
Thanks for the feedback - I won't have time right now to investigate further
but will keep you posted if anything happens...
- BeRtrand
Re: on the SVG tool post from Betrand [OT]
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@anyware-tech.com>.
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>(sorry about being OT, the discussion started on cocoon-dev and magically
>moved here ;-)
>
>On Monday 04 November 2002 15:38, Sylvain Wallez wrote:
>
>
>>. . .
>>Ok. I think there must be some misunderstanding here since I didn't read
>>Bertrand's original post and so don't know exactly what he's looking for.
>>. . .
>>
>>
>
>I was talking about allowing *editable drawings* to work on concepts and
>design on the wiki, see
>http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=103622657919912&w=2
>
>
Well, I know of TWiki's drawing plugin, but it's already mentioned on
the Cocoon wiki.
>>. . .Note : I don't want to start a SVG against Flash flame, but just show
>>that in an XML world, SVG rocks on the client side if you accept to use
>>Adobe's plugin.
>>. . .
>>
>>
>
>Which does not exist for Linux IIRC?
>
Yes it does ! Check out http://www.adobe.com/svg/viewer/install/main.html
>I'd go for a JDK 1.1 applet if possible. "Universal accesibility" is more
>important than SVG in this case I think,
>
I agree with this, even if IMHO SVG _will_ become more and more "universal".
>see my notes
>at http://outerthought.net/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=GraphicalWikiDream
>
The refresh rate of this page is amazing !
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }
Re: on the SVG tool post from Betrand [OT]
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
(sorry about being OT, the discussion started on cocoon-dev and magically
moved here ;-)
On Monday 04 November 2002 15:38, Sylvain Wallez wrote:
>. . .
> Ok. I think there must be some misunderstanding here since I didn't read
> Bertrand's original post and so don't know exactly what he's looking for.
>. . .
I was talking about allowing *editable drawings* to work on concepts and
design on the wiki, see
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=103622657919912&w=2
>. . .Note : I don't want to start a SVG against Flash flame, but just show
> that in an XML world, SVG rocks on the client side if you accept to use
> Adobe's plugin.
>. . .
Which does not exist for Linux IIRC?
I'd go for a JDK 1.1 applet if possible. "Universal accesibility" is more
important than SVG in this case I think, see my notes
at http://outerthought.net/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=GraphicalWikiDream
-Bertrand
RE: on the SVG tool post from Betrand
Posted by Robert Koberg <ro...@koberg.com>.
> >
> >This will render in Adobe's plugin, but not in Batik (and therefore
> FOP). (The fill:none does not work).
> >
>
> ??? A quick check with an old Batik 1.0 displays just fine.
Perhaps its a FOP bug (are you sure you are seeing it correctly? should be
transparent boxes - fill:none), I don't remember exactly, but it won't display
when using FOP
-Rob
Re: on the SVG tool post from Betrand
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@anyware-tech.com>.
Robert Koberg wrote:
>Hi,
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Sylvain Wallez [mailto:sylvain.wallez@anyware-tech.com]
>>Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 5:43 AM
>>To: forrest-dev@xml.apache.org
>>Subject: Re: on the SVG tool post from Betrand
>>
>>
>>Robert Koberg wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>[I think he posted it to this list, either that or cocoon-dev, but I
>>>
>>deleted it
>>
>>
>>>and it is not showing in the archives yet]
>>>
>>>Betrand asked about an open source SVG drawing tool. I do not know
>>>
>>>
>>of one, but I
>>
>>
>>>think you could put one together in Flash.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>There are intersting things available in SVG. Check out these :
>>- http://www.kevlindev.com/gui/shapes/
>>- http://pilat.free.fr/english/ (look at the "Tool for create patterns")
>>
>>You should also have a look at the SVG wiki at
>>http://www.protocol7.com/svg-wiki/
>>
>>
>
>
>I am interested in SVG, but the OS tools are not there yet (read: very limited).
>Most people would end up using the proprietary adobe plugin to view the SVG, so why not use the proprietary macromedia plugin and view something that can be extremely useful. Flash movies can use their communications server and get a bunch of stuff out of the box:
>
>
>http://www.macromedia.com/software/flashcom/download/components/
>
>An excerpt:
>
>---
>
>7. Whiteboard
> The Whiteboard component lets you create and edit text, boxes, and lines in a
>real-time shared environment. To create a shape, you select a tool and click the
>Whiteboard area; you can also drag the shape to a new position or edit the text.
>When you press the Delete key, all actively selected items are deleted.
>
>---
>
Ok. I think there must be some misunderstanding here since I didn't read
Bertrand's original post and so don't know exactly what he's looking for.
Anyway, I can say that, in a Cocoon world, Adobe's SVG plugin is far
more useful than the Flash plugin. I've done some very nice things in
SVG with a few lines of XSL and a bunch of JavaScript functions, and I
don't know how I could have achieved the same in flash.
Ah, and a few more links :
- http://sodipodi.sf.net : opensource drawing tool whose native format
is SVG
- http://www.protocol7.com/default.asp?x=projdoc/p7_xmlrpc_svg : an
XML-RPC integration in SVG.
The second one is tied to Adobe's plugin, but allows nice things like
refreshing a monitoring diagram without reloading the whole SVG. I guess
this is similar to the XML features of flash, and it's here nicely
integrated with standard JavaScript and DOM.
Note : I don't want to start a SVG against Flash flame, but just show
that in an XML world, SVG rocks on the client side if you accept to use
Adobe's plugin.
>All the data can be stored in XML to be fed through a stub flash app, or used
>standalone or in a PDF to render SVG - when batik can do more than just simple
>shapes and text. When I say the OS tools are not there yet, I mean I can't do
>simple things like the following SVG (last time I checked - 2 months ago??):
>
><?xml version="1.0" standalone="no"?>
><!DOCTYPE svg PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD SVG 20000802//EN"
>"http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/CR-SVG-20000802/DTD/svg-20000802.dtd">
><svg width="108" height="108" xml:space="preserve">
> <g style="fill:khaki; stroke:khaki">
> <rect x="0" y="0" width="108" height="108"/>
> <rect x="24" y="24" width="56" height="56"
>style="fill:none;stroke:white;stroke-width:1;"/>
> <rect x="16" y="37" width="30" height="32"
>style="fill:none;stroke:white;stroke-width:1;"/>
> <rect x="60" y="37" width="30" height="14"
>style="fill:none;stroke:white;stroke-width:1;"/>
> <rect x="58" y="68" width="22" height="22"
>style="fill:none;stroke:white;stroke-width:1;"/>
> </g>
></svg>
>
>This will render in Adobe's plugin, but not in Batik (and therefore FOP). (The fill:none does not work).
>
??? A quick check with an old Batik 1.0 displays just fine.
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }
RE: on the SVG tool post from Betrand
Posted by Robert Koberg <ro...@koberg.com>.
Hi,
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sylvain Wallez [mailto:sylvain.wallez@anyware-tech.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 5:43 AM
> To: forrest-dev@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Re: on the SVG tool post from Betrand
>
>
> Robert Koberg wrote:
>
> >[I think he posted it to this list, either that or cocoon-dev, but I
> deleted it
> >and it is not showing in the archives yet]
> >
> >Betrand asked about an open source SVG drawing tool. I do not know
> of one, but I
> >think you could put one together in Flash.
> >
>
> There are intersting things available in SVG. Check out these :
> - http://www.kevlindev.com/gui/shapes/
> - http://pilat.free.fr/english/ (look at the "Tool for create patterns")
>
> You should also have a look at the SVG wiki at
> http://www.protocol7.com/svg-wiki/
I am interested in SVG, but the OS tools are not there yet (read: very limited).
Most people would end up using the proprietary adobe plugin to view the SVG, so
why not use the proprietary macromedia plugin and view something that can be
extremely useful. Flash movies can use their communications server and get a
bunch of stuff out of the box:
http://www.macromedia.com/software/flashcom/download/components/
An excerpt:
---
7. Whiteboard
The Whiteboard component lets you create and edit text, boxes, and lines in a
real-time shared environment. To create a shape, you select a tool and click the
Whiteboard area; you can also drag the shape to a new position or edit the text.
When you press the Delete key, all actively selected items are deleted.
---
All the data can be stored in XML to be fed through a stub flash app, or used
standalone or in a PDF to render SVG - when batik can do more than just simple
shapes and text. When I say the OS tools are not there yet, I mean I can't do
simple things like the following SVG (last time I checked - 2 months ago??):
<?xml version="1.0" standalone="no"?>
<!DOCTYPE svg PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD SVG 20000802//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/CR-SVG-20000802/DTD/svg-20000802.dtd">
<svg width="108" height="108" xml:space="preserve">
<g style="fill:khaki; stroke:khaki">
<rect x="0" y="0" width="108" height="108"/>
<rect x="24" y="24" width="56" height="56"
style="fill:none;stroke:white;stroke-width:1;"/>
<rect x="16" y="37" width="30" height="32"
style="fill:none;stroke:white;stroke-width:1;"/>
<rect x="60" y="37" width="30" height="14"
style="fill:none;stroke:white;stroke-width:1;"/>
<rect x="58" y="68" width="22" height="22"
style="fill:none;stroke:white;stroke-width:1;"/>
</g>
</svg>
This will render in Adobe's plugin, but not in Batik (and therefore FOP). (The
fill:none does not work).
best,
-Rob
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Sylvain
>
> --
> Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
> http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
> { XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }
>
>
Re: on the SVG tool post from Betrand
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@anyware-tech.com>.
Robert Koberg wrote:
>[I think he posted it to this list, either that or cocoon-dev, but I deleted it
>and it is not showing in the archives yet]
>
>Betrand asked about an open source SVG drawing tool. I do not know of one, but I
>think you could put one together in Flash.
>
There are intersting things available in SVG. Check out these :
- http://www.kevlindev.com/gui/shapes/
- http://pilat.free.fr/english/ (look at the "Tool for create patterns")
You should also have a look at the SVG wiki at
http://www.protocol7.com/svg-wiki/
Hope this helps.
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }