Flex white paper on ADC

[Alan Greenblatt <bl...@adobe.com>]

Hi all,

As promised, a white paper has been published on the ADC detailing Adobe's view of Flex and its commitments to Flex in the future.  Hopefully this should answer most if not all of your questions.


You can find the Flex whitepaper here: http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html

Note that we will also be updating previous posts to point to the Flex white paper.



We hope to see you all on the Flex User Group 2012 Tour, coming soon (Boston tonight!) to a city near you.

Alan (not Allen!) Greenblatt
Senior Technical Evangelist, Adobe

Re: Flex white paper on ADC

[Maciek Sakrejda <m....@gmail.com>]

On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Yiotis Katsambas <yi...@newkat.com> wrote:
> My only question relates to Linux. It would be so awesome if we could get
> an answer to this. I understand that Linux for AIR is not coming back, but
> is Adobe committed to the browser plugin for linux?

+1 on this question. Some of our (enterprise) customers do have some
RedHat installs. While those are typically not the primary deployment
platform for our RIA front-end, it would be nice not to have to worry
about the distinction (not to mention that I have no desire to switch
dev platforms).

Re: Flex white paper on ADC

[Yiotis Katsambas <yi...@newkat.com>]

Hi Alan,
That is great!
My only question relates to Linux. It would be so awesome if we could get
an answer to this. I understand that Linux for AIR is not coming back, but
is Adobe committed to the browser plugin for linux?

Thanks!
 Yiotis

Re: Flex white paper on ADC

[Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>]

Hi there,

The white paper s far clearer than previous statements from Adobe, perhaps later than I liked but it will certainly help the wider Flex community. I'm certainly less concerned about a few things including Flash Builder's future.

The white paper also mentions that FalconJS will be donated after Falcon. So given the release data of Falcon that would be about a year away. Is there anyway Adobe can involve the community in this project  earlier that that? There is certainly is a lot of interest and people want to contribute towards this.

Thanks,
Justin

Re: Flex white paper on ADC

[João Fernandes <jo...@gmail.com>]

  On 2/15/2012 10:36 PM, Alan Greenblatt wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> As promised, a white paper has been published on the ADC detailing Adobe's view of Flex and its commitments to Flex in the future.  Hopefully this should answer most if not all of your questions.
>
>
> You can find the Flex whitepaper here: http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html
>
> Note that we will also be updating previous posts to point to the Flex white paper.
>
>
>
> We hope to see you all on the Flex User Group 2012 Tour, coming soon (Boston tonight!) to a city near you.
>
> Alan (not Allen!) Greenblatt
> Senior Technical Evangelist, Adobe
>
>
Hi Alan, I've noticed that the white paper states that Adobe plans to 
contribute Falcon 1.0 in Q4 2012 but I remember during the summit, the 
community was asking for a earlier drop so it would be developed in a 
open manner and I thought Adobe was eventually considering it, so I 
guess it's not the case anymore? Of course I'm talking about Falcon 
compiler which only supports AS3.

João Fernandes

Re: Flex white paper on ADC

[Omar Gonzalez <om...@gmail.com>]

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:56 AM, Sandeep Gupta <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > however, new features will not be added to the runtimes specifically to
> support the Apache project's efforts.
> Does this concern people?
>

Not me.


>
> This may become one of the biggest bottlenecks in the development of Flex.
> Consider this: You cannot enhance the HTML control in Flex unless Adobe
> opens up
> the WebKit APIs in AIR - and as of now there are none. Stuck up! Ditto when
> you consider to enhance HTTP stack, or the handling of media formats, or
> addition of more native data structures.
>

We never expected to get access to AIR runtime APIs, AIR !== Flex. Handling
of media formats, native data structures are all ActionScript language
features, again not something we will have access to, or quite frankly need
access in my opinion. Flex is an AS3 framework built on AS3. They did add
specific changes to the language to support Flex but I suspect some of
those could have probably been solved by other means. Those that could not
have already been solved. I don't really see how this would become any type
of bottleneck of any significance. You stress media formats and data
structures, these are things the Flash community as a whole has been asking
for (language improvements and better audio API for example) and Adobe has
stated they intend on improving those as they fall in line with their new
vision for the platform, which is gaming and video. Flex will benefit from
those feature improvements to the AVM and AS3 APIs.


>
> I believe till Apache has a say in features or does not move to other
> players like Tamarin/HTML5 or one of its own - the future of Flex will only
> be support and maintenance - except the addition/improvement of UI
> controls.
>

Some people have expressed interest in exploring targeting JS and there is
also Falcon JS on the way, although it is long way away and Adobe can
change their mind any time between now and Q4. Being that x-platform is one
of the keys to Flex I expect JS target experiments to start ramping up, I
know I'm highly interested and have started researching myself.


>
> A commonly mentioned workaround is to use using Native extensions - but
> then why one needs Flex.
>

Again, Native Extensions are for AIR. AIR !== Flex.


>
> Sorry if I am being a pessimist here.
>

I think you're just confused as to what portions fall under who's
responsibility.


>
> Keep Walking,
> ~ Sandeep
>
>
>

Re: Flex white paper on ADC

[Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>]

Flex is an application framework and thus is always depending on its runtime
- especially if it should once run within HTML. Why assume something 
different?

I think the Adobe guys will listen to enhancements of the Flash Player 
if enough
people speak out. And I guess if all the Apache members raise their 
uniform voice
Adobe will, at least, think about those things.

Flex has a lot of good things that other frameworks don't have. This 
power can be embraced.
There are a lot of things not related to the FlashPlayer than can and 
should be improved.

I don't think complaining helps.

yours
Martin.


On 16/02/2012 17:56, Sandeep Gupta wrote:
>> however, new features will not be added to the runtimes specifically to
> support the Apache project's efforts.
> Does this concern people?
>
> This may become one of the biggest bottlenecks in the development of Flex.
> Consider this: You cannot enhance the HTML control in Flex unless Adobe
> opens up
> the WebKit APIs in AIR - and as of now there are none. Stuck up! Ditto when
> you consider to enhance HTTP stack, or the handling of media formats, or
> addition of more native data structures.
>
> I believe till Apache has a say in features or does not move to other
> players like Tamarin/HTML5 or one of its own - the future of Flex will only
> be support and maintenance - except the addition/improvement of UI controls.
>
> A commonly mentioned workaround is to use using Native extensions - but
> then why one needs Flex.
>
> Sorry if I am being a pessimist here.
>
> Keep Walking,
> ~ Sandeep
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 4:36 AM, Ariel Jakobovits<ar...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>>> In the past, features were added to Flash Player and AIR specifically to
>> support the needs of Flex applications.
>> Can anyone point out some of these features?
>>
>>> however, new features will not be added to the runtimes specifically to
>> support the Apache project's efforts.
>> Does this concern people?
>>
>>
>>> framework RSLs will not be cached globally by Flash Player, but rather
>> per domain in the web browser.
>> So from past discussions on the list about this, our response will be to
>> improve the size of our Flex downloads, correct?
>>
>>> Design View, Data Centric Development tools, and Flash Catalyst
>> workflows will be removed in updated 4.x versions of Flash Builder.
>> Can we get these added to the Apache project as well?
>>
>>
>> Ariel Jakobovits
>> Email: arieljake@yahoo.com
>> Phone: 650-690-2213
>> Fax: 650-641-0031
>> Cell: 650-823-8699
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Alan Greenblatt<bl...@adobe.com>
>> To: "flex-dev@incubator.apache.org"<fl...@incubator.apache.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 2:36 PM
>> Subject: Flex white paper on ADC
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> As promised, a white paper has been published on the ADC detailing Adobe's
>> view of Flex and its commitments to Flex in the future.  Hopefully this
>> should answer most if not all of your questions.
>>
>>
>> You can find the Flex whitepaper here:
>> http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html
>>
>> Note that we will also be updating previous posts to point to the Flex
>> white paper.
>>
>>
>>
>> We hope to see you all on the Flex User Group 2012 Tour, coming soon
>> (Boston tonight!) to a city near you.
>>
>> Alan (not Allen!) Greenblatt
>> Senior Technical Evangelist, Adobe
>>

Re: Flex white paper on ADC

[Sandeep Gupta <sa...@gmail.com>]

> however, new features will not be added to the runtimes specifically to
support the Apache project's efforts.
Does this concern people?

This may become one of the biggest bottlenecks in the development of Flex.
Consider this: You cannot enhance the HTML control in Flex unless Adobe
opens up
the WebKit APIs in AIR - and as of now there are none. Stuck up! Ditto when
you consider to enhance HTTP stack, or the handling of media formats, or
addition of more native data structures.

I believe till Apache has a say in features or does not move to other
players like Tamarin/HTML5 or one of its own - the future of Flex will only
be support and maintenance - except the addition/improvement of UI controls.

A commonly mentioned workaround is to use using Native extensions - but
then why one needs Flex.

Sorry if I am being a pessimist here.

Keep Walking,
~ Sandeep


On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 4:36 AM, Ariel Jakobovits <ar...@yahoo.com>wrote:

> > In the past, features were added to Flash Player and AIR specifically to
> support the needs of Flex applications.
> Can anyone point out some of these features?
>
> > however, new features will not be added to the runtimes specifically to
> support the Apache project's efforts.
> Does this concern people?
>
>
> > framework RSLs will not be cached globally by Flash Player, but rather
> per domain in the web browser.
> So from past discussions on the list about this, our response will be to
> improve the size of our Flex downloads, correct?
>
> > Design View, Data Centric Development tools, and Flash Catalyst
> workflows will be removed in updated 4.x versions of Flash Builder.
> Can we get these added to the Apache project as well?
>
>
> Ariel Jakobovits
> Email: arieljake@yahoo.com
> Phone: 650-690-2213
> Fax: 650-641-0031
> Cell: 650-823-8699
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Alan Greenblatt <bl...@adobe.com>
> To: "flex-dev@incubator.apache.org" <fl...@incubator.apache.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 2:36 PM
> Subject: Flex white paper on ADC
>
> Hi all,
>
> As promised, a white paper has been published on the ADC detailing Adobe's
> view of Flex and its commitments to Flex in the future.  Hopefully this
> should answer most if not all of your questions.
>
>
> You can find the Flex whitepaper here:
> http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html
>
> Note that we will also be updating previous posts to point to the Flex
> white paper.
>
>
>
> We hope to see you all on the Flex User Group 2012 Tour, coming soon
> (Boston tonight!) to a city near you.
>
> Alan (not Allen!) Greenblatt
> Senior Technical Evangelist, Adobe
>

Re: Flex white paper on ADC

[Doug Arthur <do...@apache.org>]

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 4:02 AM, Jonathan Campos <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Ariel Jakobovits <ar...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>> > however, new features will not be added to the runtimes specifically to
>> support the Apache project's efforts.
>> Does this concern people?
>>
>
> This doesn't concern me at all. There are so many features and general
> improvements that need to be done that don't require additional support
> features. There is a ton of good work that can be done just with the
> runtimes we have now. Instead of focusing on little points like this look
> at the bigger picture and all the rest that we need to do.
>
> Furthermore, remember that a plane can't fly without gravity and drag. If
> you've never heard this saying consider this. Look at your "perceived
> limitations" and you'll find solutions. While gravity ad drag may seem to a
> limitation, without gravity and drag a plane couldn't stay in the air and
> get lift. Just food for thought.
>
> --
> Jonathan Campos

I completely agree here. We are taking on a component framework
architecture, not the runtime. It's kind of like java developers don't
have much say into what Oracle puts into the JDK. They can speak up,
and influence, but the JDK is in Oracle's hands. If we run into
situations where we feel an improvement in the runtime will
significantly help us, then we, as a community, need to speak up and
let our voices be heard. We cannot count on any of those changes being
implemented into the runtime, but we better at least ask.

I like your comment about gravity and drag, I hadn't heard it before,
and it makes perfect since in a lot of areas, not just including what
we're facing here on this project. So let's move forward, and make
something great out of what we have in our bucket.

- Doug

Re: Flex white paper on ADC

[Jonathan Campos <jo...@gmail.com>]

On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Ariel Jakobovits <ar...@yahoo.com>wrote:

> > however, new features will not be added to the runtimes specifically to
> support the Apache project's efforts.
> Does this concern people?
>

This doesn't concern me at all. There are so many features and general
improvements that need to be done that don't require additional support
features. There is a ton of good work that can be done just with the
runtimes we have now. Instead of focusing on little points like this look
at the bigger picture and all the rest that we need to do.

Furthermore, remember that a plane can't fly without gravity and drag. If
you've never heard this saying consider this. Look at your "perceived
limitations" and you'll find solutions. While gravity ad drag may seem to a
limitation, without gravity and drag a plane couldn't stay in the air and
get lift. Just food for thought.

-- 
Jonathan Campos

Re: Flex white paper on ADC

[Ariel Jakobovits <ar...@yahoo.com>]

> In the past, features were added to Flash Player and AIR specifically to support the needs of Flex applications. 
Can anyone point out some of these features?

> however, new features will not be added to the runtimes specifically to support the Apache project's efforts.
Does this concern people?


> framework RSLs will not be cached globally by Flash Player, but rather per domain in the web browser.
So from past discussions on the list about this, our response will be to improve the size of our Flex downloads, correct?

> Design View, Data Centric Development tools, and Flash Catalyst workflows will be removed in updated 4.x versions of Flash Builder.
Can we get these added to the Apache project as well?


Ariel Jakobovits
Email: arieljake@yahoo.com
Phone: 650-690-2213
Fax: 650-641-0031
Cell: 650-823-8699


________________________________
From: Alan Greenblatt <bl...@adobe.com>
To: "flex-dev@incubator.apache.org" <fl...@incubator.apache.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 2:36 PM
Subject: Flex white paper on ADC

Hi all,

As promised, a white paper has been published on the ADC detailing Adobe's view of Flex and its commitments to Flex in the future.  Hopefully this should answer most if not all of your questions.


You can find the Flex whitepaper here: http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html

Note that we will also be updating previous posts to point to the Flex white paper.



We hope to see you all on the Flex User Group 2012 Tour, coming soon (Boston tonight!) to a city near you.

Alan (not Allen!) Greenblatt
Senior Technical Evangelist, Adobe