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Posted to users@tomcat.apache.org by David Thielen <da...@windward.net> on 2003/03/23 06:49:12 UTC
Why does Tomcat use xerces under java 1.4 instead of the internal jvm classes?
thanks - dave
Re: Why does Tomcat use xerces under java 1.4 instead of the internal jvm classes?
Posted by David Thielen <da...@windward.net>.
thanks - dave
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Why does Tomcat use xerces under java 1.4 instead of the internal jvm classes?
Posted by David Thielen <da...@windward.net>.
thanks - dave
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Re: Why does Tomcat use xerces under java 1.4 instead of the internal
jvm classes?
Posted by "Jess M. Holle" <je...@ptc.com>.
>
>
>BTW - in the web.xml files that I write I usually remove the declaration on
>the top ( to make sure the validation doesn't happen ).
>
>
I can't recall which servlet engine I saw this in, but I have seen at
least one servlet engine that rejected web.xml unless it contained the
expected DTD declaration.
[Personally I found that extraordinarily obnoxious -- but that's what
you get for using a commercial servlet engine -- which it was.]
--
Jess Holle
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Re: Why does Tomcat use xerces under java 1.4 instead of the internal jvm classes?
Posted by Costin Manolache <cm...@yahoo.com>.
Jean-Francois Arcand wrote:
>
>
> Costin Manolache wrote:
>
>>Jean-Francois Arcand wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>>At least in tomcat5 I never use xerces - only the bundled parser, and so
>>>>far I've seen no problems.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Crimson is a very good parser, and it still faster that Xerces in some
>>>case. The only reason I see for bundling xerces is for when we turn on
>>>validation & the web.xml used a schema for validation.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>So why not making the "web.xml validator" a separate download ? If
>>people want to turn on validation, they'll need to get the validator -
>>which will include xerces and some simple script to do the validation.
>>
>>
> That means removing DTD validation from the current implementation? For
> me, seems a feature regression. If we stop validating, we should have a
> very good documentation in other to avoid confusion and hours or
> debugging.
No, I'm not sugesting to remove DTD validation.
Just that it hurts people - and without too much gain.
But it's actually the reverse - the DTD validation is the one that causes
confusion and hours of debugging ( plus slow startup time ). Good software
should be tolerant with the user input.
A tool that generates the web.xml should be strict and make sure the output
is valid. A user who wants to be sure the webapp it ships is correct should
validate the web.xml ( against DTD or schema ). A deploy tool could also
validate web.xml and the tlds.
It is too late to change the behavior for DTD ( for backward compat, etc ),
but at least schema validation can be avoided.
BTW - in the web.xml files that I write I usually remove the declaration on
the top ( to make sure the validation doesn't happen ).
Costin
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Re: Why does Tomcat use xerces under java 1.4 instead of the internal
jvm classes?
Posted by Jean-Francois Arcand <jf...@apache.org>.
Costin Manolache wrote:
>Jean-Francois Arcand wrote:
>
>
>
>>>At least in tomcat5 I never use xerces - only the bundled parser, and so
>>>far I've seen no problems.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Crimson is a very good parser, and it still faster that Xerces in some
>>case. The only reason I see for bundling xerces is for when we turn on
>>validation & the web.xml used a schema for validation.
>>
>>
>
>So why not making the "web.xml validator" a separate download ? If
>people want to turn on validation, they'll need to get the validator - which
>will include xerces and some simple script to do the validation.
>
>
That means removing DTD validation from the current implementation? For
me, seems a feature regression. If we stop validating, we should have a
very good documentation in other to avoid confusion and hours or debugging.
-- Jeanfrancois
>
>
>BTW, I've seen a lot of pain with the DTD validation turned on - yes, I know
>that reversing the order of <icon> and <display-name> would make the app
>incompatible and violate the spec ( in 2.2 and 2.3 at least ), but many
>users seem to fail to remember the exact order of the 24 elements.
>
>
>Costin
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
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Re: Why does Tomcat use xerces under java 1.4 instead of the internal jvm classes?
Posted by Costin Manolache <cm...@yahoo.com>.
Jean-Francois Arcand wrote:
>>At least in tomcat5 I never use xerces - only the bundled parser, and so
>>far I've seen no problems.
>>
> Crimson is a very good parser, and it still faster that Xerces in some
> case. The only reason I see for bundling xerces is for when we turn on
> validation & the web.xml used a schema for validation.
So why not making the "web.xml validator" a separate download ? If
people want to turn on validation, they'll need to get the validator - which
will include xerces and some simple script to do the validation.
BTW, I've seen a lot of pain with the DTD validation turned on - yes, I know
that reversing the order of <icon> and <display-name> would make the app
incompatible and violate the spec ( in 2.2 and 2.3 at least ), but many
users seem to fail to remember the exact order of the 24 elements.
Costin
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Re: Why does Tomcat use xerces under java 1.4 instead of the internal
jvm classes?
Posted by Jean-Francois Arcand <jf...@apache.org>.
Costin Manolache wrote:
>Jean-Francois Arcand wrote:
>
>
>
>>Because the xerces version bundled with 1.4 is an older one, doesn't
>>support XML schema properly, and contains bugs (and is not as performant
>>as the 2.x version)
>>
>>
>
>Isn't Crimson in JDK1.4 ? I remember we decided to disable XML schema
>validation.
>
Crimson & Xerces are available. Crimson is the default one. Yes
validation is turned off by default.
>
>At least in tomcat5 I never use xerces - only the bundled parser, and so
>far I've seen no problems.
>
Crimson is a very good parser, and it still faster that Xerces in some
case. The only reason I see for bundling xerces is for when we turn on
validation & the web.xml used a schema for validation.
>
>XML schema validation is just bad - if the spec would _require_ the
>container to validate ( and I hope it won't ) - then we can provide a
>separate "validator" that will include xerces and some script that users
>can run.
>
From what I know, that will not happen for the 2.4 timeframe.
-- Jeanfrancois
>
>Costin
>
>
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>
>
>
>
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Re: Why does Tomcat use xerces under java 1.4 instead of the internal jvm classes?
Posted by Costin Manolache <cm...@yahoo.com>.
Jean-Francois Arcand wrote:
> Because the xerces version bundled with 1.4 is an older one, doesn't
> support XML schema properly, and contains bugs (and is not as performant
> as the 2.x version)
Isn't Crimson in JDK1.4 ? I remember we decided to disable XML schema
validation.
At least in tomcat5 I never use xerces - only the bundled parser, and so
far I've seen no problems.
XML schema validation is just bad - if the spec would _require_ the
container to validate ( and I hope it won't ) - then we can provide a
separate "validator" that will include xerces and some script that users
can run.
Costin
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Re: Why does Tomcat use xerces under java 1.4 instead of the internal
jvm classes?
Posted by Jean-Francois Arcand <jf...@apache.org>.
Because the xerces version bundled with 1.4 is an older one, doesn't
support XML schema properly, and contains bugs (and is not as performant
as the 2.x version)
-- Jeanfrancois
David Thielen wrote:
>thanks - dave
>
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>
>
>
>
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Why does Tomcat use xerces under java 1.4 instead of the internal jvm classes?
Posted by David Thielen <da...@thielen.com>.
thanks - dave
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Why does Tomcat use xerces under java 1.4 instead of the internal jvm classes?
Posted by David Thielen <da...@windward.net>.
thanks - dave
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