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Posted to dev@cloudstack.apache.org by Lu Heng <h....@anytimechinese.com> on 2012/06/19 11:43:42 UTC
Can we use other language here?
Hi
One very interesting question raised by my Chinese tech today, can we
use Chinese in the mailling list.
1. Seems there is no language restriction about in the mailling list,
and all language should be equal.
2. As I read and touched these days in the mailling list, a lot guy
from crixi developing CS are in fact Chinese.
Any thoughts?
--
--
Kind regards.
Lu
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It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or
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Re: Can we use other language here?
Posted by Lu Heng <h....@anytimechinese.com>.
Hi
Thanks again for everybody's reply.
"And I am quite believe in English education in China"
That is as true as the level of the tech person, of course I am almost
100% certain , for any given country, a high level tech can perfectly
understand English.
But I think that shouldn't be a reason to exclude a everyday tech to
know and understand the project.
Most everyday tech have very limited English language skill as far as
my company in China's recurring experiences concerned.
And as I am living in the Netherlands, one of most common please for
English use country outside of English native country, I still see
people that don't quite understand or comfortable using English.
By offering localized language mailing list, I think it will border
the community by many means.
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 9:30 PM, Sheng Yang <sh...@yasker.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:29 AM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl> wrote:
>>> On 06/19/2012 02:50 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 06/19/2012 05:43 AM, Lu Heng wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> One very interesting question raised by my Chinese tech today, can we
>>>>> use Chinese in the mailling list.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Seems there is no language restriction about in the mailling list,
>>>>> and all language should be equal.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. As I read and touched these days in the mailling list, a lot guy
>>>>> from crixi developing CS are in fact Chinese.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If this is needed then we should have a language specific list. However,
>>>> from a development point of view that'll put a big dent into
>>>> collaboration.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd see a cloudstack-users-cn mailinglist earlier then a Chinese developer
>>> list.
>>>
>>> My €0,02 says we should stick to English on the development list to keep
>>> collaboration consistent. English isn't my native language either, but it
>>> seems to be accepted as the language in software development?
>>>
>>> As far as I know English is harder to learn for Chinese people due to the
>>> huge language differences. I wouldn't vote against a Chinese development
>>> list, but I wouldn't endorse it either, due to the above reasons.
>>>
>>> Wido
>>>
>>>>
>>>> My $0.02
>>>> Robert
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> Generally a project uses a single language for development purposes
>> and while there is no technical barrier, splitting up the developer
>> community by language seems more deleterious than beneficial.
>>
>> This is further complicated by the fact that decisions have to be made
>> on the mailing list - which then begs the question - where can binding
>> decisions be made? In Apache projects that is supposed to happen on
>> the -dev list. However with two -dev lists that becomes a bit more
>> difficult.
>>
>> So my personal take on the matter:
>> We have a number of developers for whom English is not their native
>> tongue - but it remains a common tongue for us. I'd certainly have no
>> objection to language-specific user mailing lists. But missing entire
>> development conversations, strikes me as a bad thing.
>>
>> Thoughts, comments, flames?
>
> Agree. There should be no knowledge barrier between developers.
>
> And I am quite believe in English education in China. Again, don't
> worry about grammar or misspell etc.
>
> And localized user mailing is necessary I think.
>
> --Sheng
>>
>> --David
--
--
Kind regards.
Lu
This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above.
It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or
otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use
of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the
intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received
this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and
e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this
message and including the text of the transmission received.
Re: CloudStack Chinese user mailing list
Posted by Chris Custine <ch...@gmail.com>.
There is some precedent for non-english user lists, but the only ones I am aware of are un-official lists hosted on google groups, etc. (https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/cxf-zh) for example. I'm not 100% certain that a non-english list hosted by apache is officially sanctioned, so I will defer that to the project mentors or anyone from @infra monitoring the list.
Either way, I would simply caution that any discussions on a user list that begin to involve anything more than trivial bug fixes for a user issue should be moved to the dev list. This is actually something that we must do from time to time on any of the other project mailing lists as well.
--
Chris Custine
On Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Edison Su wrote:
> Glad to announce that CloudStack Chinese user mailing list is created, just few minutes ago.
> To subscribe: please send email to cloudstack-users-cn-subscribe@incubator.apache.org (mailto:cloudstack-users-cn-subscribe@incubator.apache.org).
> BTW, it's Mandarin only though, maybe a little bit Cantonese is OK...:)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Nalley [mailto:david@gnsa.us]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 3:45 PM
> > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org (mailto:cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org)
> > Subject: Re: Can we use other language here?
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Sheng Yang <sheng@yasker.org (mailto:sheng@yasker.org)> wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:29 AM, David Nalley <david@gnsa.us (mailto:david@gnsa.us)> wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Wido den Hollander <wido@widodh.nl (mailto:wido@widodh.nl)>
> > >
> > >
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > > On 06/19/2012 02:50 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 06/19/2012 05:43 AM, Lu Heng wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > One very interesting question raised by my Chinese tech today,
> > can we
> > > > > > > use Chinese in the mailling list.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. Seems there is no language restriction about in the mailling
> > list,
> > > > > > > and all language should be equal.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. As I read and touched these days in the mailling list, a lot
> > guy
> > > > > > > from crixi developing CS are in fact Chinese.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any thoughts?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If this is needed then we should have a language specific list.
> > However,
> > > > > > from a development point of view that'll put a big dent into
> > > > > > collaboration.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd see a cloudstack-users-cn mailinglist earlier then a Chinese
> > developer
> > > > > list.
> > > > >
> > > > > My €0,02 says we should stick to English on the development list to
> > keep
> > > > > collaboration consistent. English isn't my native language either,
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > but it
> > > > > seems to be accepted as the language in software development?
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as I know English is harder to learn for Chinese people due
> > to the
> > > > > huge language differences. I wouldn't vote against a Chinese
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > development
> > > > > list, but I wouldn't endorse it either, due to the above reasons.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wido
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My $0.02
> > > > > > Robert
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Generally a project uses a single language for development purposes
> > > > and while there is no technical barrier, splitting up the developer
> > > > community by language seems more deleterious than beneficial.
> > > >
> > > > This is further complicated by the fact that decisions have to be
> > made
> > > > on the mailing list - which then begs the question - where can
> > >
> >
> > binding
> > > > decisions be made? In Apache projects that is supposed to happen on
> > > > the -dev list. However with two -dev lists that becomes a bit more
> > > > difficult.
> > > >
> > > > So my personal take on the matter:
> > > > We have a number of developers for whom English is not their native
> > > > tongue - but it remains a common tongue for us. I'd certainly have
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > no
> > > > objection to language-specific user mailing lists. But missing
> > >
> >
> > entire
> > > > development conversations, strikes me as a bad thing.
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts, comments, flames?
> > >
> > > Agree. There should be no knowledge barrier between developers.
> > >
> > > And I am quite believe in English education in China. Again, don't
> > > worry about grammar or misspell etc.
> > >
> > > And localized user mailing is necessary I think.
> > >
> > > --Sheng
> > > >
> > > > --David
> >
> > Sheng, or Edison - feel free to create a ticket for INFRA at
> > issues.apache.org (http://issues.apache.org) to create a Chinese language user mailing list.
> >
> > --David
Re: CloudStack Chinese user mailing list
Posted by Chris Custine <ch...@gmail.com>.
There is some precedent for non-english user lists, but the only ones I am aware of are un-official lists hosted on google groups, etc. (https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/cxf-zh) for example. I'm not 100% certain that a non-english list hosted by apache is officially sanctioned, so I will defer that to the project mentors or anyone from @infra monitoring the list.
Either way, I would simply caution that any discussions on a user list that begin to involve anything more than trivial bug fixes for a user issue should be moved to the dev list. This is actually something that we must do from time to time on any of the other project mailing lists as well.
--
Chris Custine
On Wednesday, June 20, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Edison Su wrote:
> Glad to announce that CloudStack Chinese user mailing list is created, just few minutes ago.
> To subscribe: please send email to cloudstack-users-cn-subscribe@incubator.apache.org (mailto:cloudstack-users-cn-subscribe@incubator.apache.org).
> BTW, it's Mandarin only though, maybe a little bit Cantonese is OK...:)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Nalley [mailto:david@gnsa.us]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 3:45 PM
> > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org (mailto:cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org)
> > Subject: Re: Can we use other language here?
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Sheng Yang <sheng@yasker.org (mailto:sheng@yasker.org)> wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:29 AM, David Nalley <david@gnsa.us (mailto:david@gnsa.us)> wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Wido den Hollander <wido@widodh.nl (mailto:wido@widodh.nl)>
> > >
> > >
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > > On 06/19/2012 02:50 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 06/19/2012 05:43 AM, Lu Heng wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > One very interesting question raised by my Chinese tech today,
> > can we
> > > > > > > use Chinese in the mailling list.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. Seems there is no language restriction about in the mailling
> > list,
> > > > > > > and all language should be equal.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. As I read and touched these days in the mailling list, a lot
> > guy
> > > > > > > from crixi developing CS are in fact Chinese.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any thoughts?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If this is needed then we should have a language specific list.
> > However,
> > > > > > from a development point of view that'll put a big dent into
> > > > > > collaboration.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd see a cloudstack-users-cn mailinglist earlier then a Chinese
> > developer
> > > > > list.
> > > > >
> > > > > My €0,02 says we should stick to English on the development list to
> > keep
> > > > > collaboration consistent. English isn't my native language either,
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > but it
> > > > > seems to be accepted as the language in software development?
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as I know English is harder to learn for Chinese people due
> > to the
> > > > > huge language differences. I wouldn't vote against a Chinese
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > development
> > > > > list, but I wouldn't endorse it either, due to the above reasons.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wido
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My $0.02
> > > > > > Robert
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Generally a project uses a single language for development purposes
> > > > and while there is no technical barrier, splitting up the developer
> > > > community by language seems more deleterious than beneficial.
> > > >
> > > > This is further complicated by the fact that decisions have to be
> > made
> > > > on the mailing list - which then begs the question - where can
> > >
> >
> > binding
> > > > decisions be made? In Apache projects that is supposed to happen on
> > > > the -dev list. However with two -dev lists that becomes a bit more
> > > > difficult.
> > > >
> > > > So my personal take on the matter:
> > > > We have a number of developers for whom English is not their native
> > > > tongue - but it remains a common tongue for us. I'd certainly have
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > no
> > > > objection to language-specific user mailing lists. But missing
> > >
> >
> > entire
> > > > development conversations, strikes me as a bad thing.
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts, comments, flames?
> > >
> > > Agree. There should be no knowledge barrier between developers.
> > >
> > > And I am quite believe in English education in China. Again, don't
> > > worry about grammar or misspell etc.
> > >
> > > And localized user mailing is necessary I think.
> > >
> > > --Sheng
> > > >
> > > > --David
> >
> > Sheng, or Edison - feel free to create a ticket for INFRA at
> > issues.apache.org (http://issues.apache.org) to create a Chinese language user mailing list.
> >
> > --David
CloudStack Chinese user mailing list
Posted by Edison Su <Ed...@citrix.com>.
Glad to announce that CloudStack Chinese user mailing list is created, just few minutes ago.
To subscribe: please send email to cloudstack-users-cn-subscribe@incubator.apache.org.
BTW, it's Mandarin only though, maybe a little bit Cantonese is OK...:)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Nalley [mailto:david@gnsa.us]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 3:45 PM
> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Can we use other language here?
>
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Sheng Yang <sh...@yasker.org> wrote:
> > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:29 AM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> >> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>
> wrote:
> >>> On 06/19/2012 02:50 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On 06/19/2012 05:43 AM, Lu Heng wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi
> >>>>>
> >>>>> One very interesting question raised by my Chinese tech today,
> can we
> >>>>> use Chinese in the mailling list.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1. Seems there is no language restriction about in the mailling
> list,
> >>>>> and all language should be equal.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2. As I read and touched these days in the mailling list, a lot
> guy
> >>>>> from crixi developing CS are in fact Chinese.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Any thoughts?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> If this is needed then we should have a language specific list.
> However,
> >>>> from a development point of view that'll put a big dent into
> >>>> collaboration.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I'd see a cloudstack-users-cn mailinglist earlier then a Chinese
> developer
> >>> list.
> >>>
> >>> My €0,02 says we should stick to English on the development list to
> keep
> >>> collaboration consistent. English isn't my native language either,
> but it
> >>> seems to be accepted as the language in software development?
> >>>
> >>> As far as I know English is harder to learn for Chinese people due
> to the
> >>> huge language differences. I wouldn't vote against a Chinese
> development
> >>> list, but I wouldn't endorse it either, due to the above reasons.
> >>>
> >>> Wido
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> My $0.02
> >>>> Robert
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Generally a project uses a single language for development purposes
> >> and while there is no technical barrier, splitting up the developer
> >> community by language seems more deleterious than beneficial.
> >>
> >> This is further complicated by the fact that decisions have to be
> made
> >> on the mailing list - which then begs the question - where can
> binding
> >> decisions be made? In Apache projects that is supposed to happen on
> >> the -dev list. However with two -dev lists that becomes a bit more
> >> difficult.
> >>
> >> So my personal take on the matter:
> >> We have a number of developers for whom English is not their native
> >> tongue - but it remains a common tongue for us. I'd certainly have
> no
> >> objection to language-specific user mailing lists. But missing
> entire
> >> development conversations, strikes me as a bad thing.
> >>
> >> Thoughts, comments, flames?
> >
> > Agree. There should be no knowledge barrier between developers.
> >
> > And I am quite believe in English education in China. Again, don't
> > worry about grammar or misspell etc.
> >
> > And localized user mailing is necessary I think.
> >
> > --Sheng
> >>
> >> --David
>
> Sheng, or Edison - feel free to create a ticket for INFRA at
> issues.apache.org to create a Chinese language user mailing list.
>
> --David
CloudStack Chinese user mailing list
Posted by Edison Su <Ed...@citrix.com>.
Glad to announce that CloudStack Chinese user mailing list is created, just few minutes ago.
To subscribe: please send email to cloudstack-users-cn-subscribe@incubator.apache.org.
BTW, it's Mandarin only though, maybe a little bit Cantonese is OK...:)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Nalley [mailto:david@gnsa.us]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 3:45 PM
> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Can we use other language here?
>
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Sheng Yang <sh...@yasker.org> wrote:
> > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:29 AM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> >> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>
> wrote:
> >>> On 06/19/2012 02:50 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On 06/19/2012 05:43 AM, Lu Heng wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi
> >>>>>
> >>>>> One very interesting question raised by my Chinese tech today,
> can we
> >>>>> use Chinese in the mailling list.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1. Seems there is no language restriction about in the mailling
> list,
> >>>>> and all language should be equal.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2. As I read and touched these days in the mailling list, a lot
> guy
> >>>>> from crixi developing CS are in fact Chinese.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Any thoughts?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> If this is needed then we should have a language specific list.
> However,
> >>>> from a development point of view that'll put a big dent into
> >>>> collaboration.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I'd see a cloudstack-users-cn mailinglist earlier then a Chinese
> developer
> >>> list.
> >>>
> >>> My €0,02 says we should stick to English on the development list to
> keep
> >>> collaboration consistent. English isn't my native language either,
> but it
> >>> seems to be accepted as the language in software development?
> >>>
> >>> As far as I know English is harder to learn for Chinese people due
> to the
> >>> huge language differences. I wouldn't vote against a Chinese
> development
> >>> list, but I wouldn't endorse it either, due to the above reasons.
> >>>
> >>> Wido
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> My $0.02
> >>>> Robert
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Generally a project uses a single language for development purposes
> >> and while there is no technical barrier, splitting up the developer
> >> community by language seems more deleterious than beneficial.
> >>
> >> This is further complicated by the fact that decisions have to be
> made
> >> on the mailing list - which then begs the question - where can
> binding
> >> decisions be made? In Apache projects that is supposed to happen on
> >> the -dev list. However with two -dev lists that becomes a bit more
> >> difficult.
> >>
> >> So my personal take on the matter:
> >> We have a number of developers for whom English is not their native
> >> tongue - but it remains a common tongue for us. I'd certainly have
> no
> >> objection to language-specific user mailing lists. But missing
> entire
> >> development conversations, strikes me as a bad thing.
> >>
> >> Thoughts, comments, flames?
> >
> > Agree. There should be no knowledge barrier between developers.
> >
> > And I am quite believe in English education in China. Again, don't
> > worry about grammar or misspell etc.
> >
> > And localized user mailing is necessary I think.
> >
> > --Sheng
> >>
> >> --David
>
> Sheng, or Edison - feel free to create a ticket for INFRA at
> issues.apache.org to create a Chinese language user mailing list.
>
> --David
Re: Can we use other language here?
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Sheng Yang <sh...@yasker.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:29 AM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl> wrote:
>>> On 06/19/2012 02:50 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 06/19/2012 05:43 AM, Lu Heng wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> One very interesting question raised by my Chinese tech today, can we
>>>>> use Chinese in the mailling list.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Seems there is no language restriction about in the mailling list,
>>>>> and all language should be equal.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. As I read and touched these days in the mailling list, a lot guy
>>>>> from crixi developing CS are in fact Chinese.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If this is needed then we should have a language specific list. However,
>>>> from a development point of view that'll put a big dent into
>>>> collaboration.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd see a cloudstack-users-cn mailinglist earlier then a Chinese developer
>>> list.
>>>
>>> My €0,02 says we should stick to English on the development list to keep
>>> collaboration consistent. English isn't my native language either, but it
>>> seems to be accepted as the language in software development?
>>>
>>> As far as I know English is harder to learn for Chinese people due to the
>>> huge language differences. I wouldn't vote against a Chinese development
>>> list, but I wouldn't endorse it either, due to the above reasons.
>>>
>>> Wido
>>>
>>>>
>>>> My $0.02
>>>> Robert
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> Generally a project uses a single language for development purposes
>> and while there is no technical barrier, splitting up the developer
>> community by language seems more deleterious than beneficial.
>>
>> This is further complicated by the fact that decisions have to be made
>> on the mailing list - which then begs the question - where can binding
>> decisions be made? In Apache projects that is supposed to happen on
>> the -dev list. However with two -dev lists that becomes a bit more
>> difficult.
>>
>> So my personal take on the matter:
>> We have a number of developers for whom English is not their native
>> tongue - but it remains a common tongue for us. I'd certainly have no
>> objection to language-specific user mailing lists. But missing entire
>> development conversations, strikes me as a bad thing.
>>
>> Thoughts, comments, flames?
>
> Agree. There should be no knowledge barrier between developers.
>
> And I am quite believe in English education in China. Again, don't
> worry about grammar or misspell etc.
>
> And localized user mailing is necessary I think.
>
> --Sheng
>>
>> --David
Sheng, or Edison - feel free to create a ticket for INFRA at
issues.apache.org to create a Chinese language user mailing list.
--David
Re: Can we use other language here?
Posted by Sheng Yang <sh...@yasker.org>.
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:29 AM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl> wrote:
>> On 06/19/2012 02:50 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
>>>
>>> On 06/19/2012 05:43 AM, Lu Heng wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> One very interesting question raised by my Chinese tech today, can we
>>>> use Chinese in the mailling list.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Seems there is no language restriction about in the mailling list,
>>>> and all language should be equal.
>>>>
>>>> 2. As I read and touched these days in the mailling list, a lot guy
>>>> from crixi developing CS are in fact Chinese.
>>>>
>>>> Any thoughts?
>>>>
>>>
>>> If this is needed then we should have a language specific list. However,
>>> from a development point of view that'll put a big dent into
>>> collaboration.
>>
>>
>> I'd see a cloudstack-users-cn mailinglist earlier then a Chinese developer
>> list.
>>
>> My €0,02 says we should stick to English on the development list to keep
>> collaboration consistent. English isn't my native language either, but it
>> seems to be accepted as the language in software development?
>>
>> As far as I know English is harder to learn for Chinese people due to the
>> huge language differences. I wouldn't vote against a Chinese development
>> list, but I wouldn't endorse it either, due to the above reasons.
>>
>> Wido
>>
>>>
>>> My $0.02
>>> Robert
>>>
>>
>
> Generally a project uses a single language for development purposes
> and while there is no technical barrier, splitting up the developer
> community by language seems more deleterious than beneficial.
>
> This is further complicated by the fact that decisions have to be made
> on the mailing list - which then begs the question - where can binding
> decisions be made? In Apache projects that is supposed to happen on
> the -dev list. However with two -dev lists that becomes a bit more
> difficult.
>
> So my personal take on the matter:
> We have a number of developers for whom English is not their native
> tongue - but it remains a common tongue for us. I'd certainly have no
> objection to language-specific user mailing lists. But missing entire
> development conversations, strikes me as a bad thing.
>
> Thoughts, comments, flames?
Agree. There should be no knowledge barrier between developers.
And I am quite believe in English education in China. Again, don't
worry about grammar or misspell etc.
And localized user mailing is necessary I think.
--Sheng
>
> --David
Re: Can we use other language here?
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl> wrote:
> On 06/19/2012 02:50 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
>>
>> On 06/19/2012 05:43 AM, Lu Heng wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> One very interesting question raised by my Chinese tech today, can we
>>> use Chinese in the mailling list.
>>>
>>> 1. Seems there is no language restriction about in the mailling list,
>>> and all language should be equal.
>>>
>>> 2. As I read and touched these days in the mailling list, a lot guy
>>> from crixi developing CS are in fact Chinese.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts?
>>>
>>
>> If this is needed then we should have a language specific list. However,
>> from a development point of view that'll put a big dent into
>> collaboration.
>
>
> I'd see a cloudstack-users-cn mailinglist earlier then a Chinese developer
> list.
>
> My €0,02 says we should stick to English on the development list to keep
> collaboration consistent. English isn't my native language either, but it
> seems to be accepted as the language in software development?
>
> As far as I know English is harder to learn for Chinese people due to the
> huge language differences. I wouldn't vote against a Chinese development
> list, but I wouldn't endorse it either, due to the above reasons.
>
> Wido
>
>>
>> My $0.02
>> Robert
>>
>
Generally a project uses a single language for development purposes
and while there is no technical barrier, splitting up the developer
community by language seems more deleterious than beneficial.
This is further complicated by the fact that decisions have to be made
on the mailing list - which then begs the question - where can binding
decisions be made? In Apache projects that is supposed to happen on
the -dev list. However with two -dev lists that becomes a bit more
difficult.
So my personal take on the matter:
We have a number of developers for whom English is not their native
tongue - but it remains a common tongue for us. I'd certainly have no
objection to language-specific user mailing lists. But missing entire
development conversations, strikes me as a bad thing.
Thoughts, comments, flames?
--David
Re: Can we use other language here?
Posted by Sheng Yang <sh...@yasker.org>.
+1. Localized mailing list is common for all big opensource projects.
The issue of discussing using non-English in the mailing list would be
nobody else than specific group of people know what's you are talking
about. Then people may not able to provide help, or the knowledge may
not able to accumulate.
I think at least for development, we'd better stick to English(for
now). And since this is technical mailing list, no body would cares
about grammar etc. :D
But for user, we may need localized mailing to get more and more
people involving CloudStack.
Just my $0.02. :)
--Sheng
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 6:56 AM, Salvatore Orlando
<Sa...@eu.citrix.com> wrote:
> +1 for introducing localized mailing lists.
>
> I think this would be best trade-off between being able to actively involve developers in different cultures and keeping a "global" mailing list in English.
> English is not my first language either, but I guess I'm not at fault by stating that it is by large the most commonly known 2nd language in several parts of the world.
>
> Salvatore
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lu Heng [mailto:h.lu@anytimechinese.com]
>> Sent: 19 June 2012 13:59
>> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Can we use other language here?
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> "accepted as language in software development"
>>
>> is as long as the person able to speak English at first place, persons are not
>> able to speak English are automatically excluded in the mailling list, so
>> opinions here(only from people able to speak
>> English) seems will be limited as well.
>>
>> But just a very interesting thoughts, no one said about language restrictions
>> anyway, and English is not always be the first language for many of us.
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>
>> wrote:
>> > On 06/19/2012 02:50 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 06/19/2012 05:43 AM, Lu Heng wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi
>> >>>
>> >>> One very interesting question raised by my Chinese tech today, can
>> >>> we use Chinese in the mailling list.
>> >>>
>> >>> 1. Seems there is no language restriction about in the mailling
>> >>> list, and all language should be equal.
>> >>>
>> >>> 2. As I read and touched these days in the mailling list, a lot guy
>> >>> from crixi developing CS are in fact Chinese.
>> >>>
>> >>> Any thoughts?
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> If this is needed then we should have a language specific list.
>> >> However, from a development point of view that'll put a big dent into
>> >> collaboration.
>> >
>> >
>> > I'd see a cloudstack-users-cn mailinglist earlier then a Chinese
>> > developer list.
>> >
>> > My €0,02 says we should stick to English on the development list to
>> > keep collaboration consistent. English isn't my native language
>> > either, but it seems to be accepted as the language in software
>> development?
>> >
>> > As far as I know English is harder to learn for Chinese people due to
>> > the huge language differences. I wouldn't vote against a Chinese
>> > development list, but I wouldn't endorse it either, due to the above
>> reasons.
>> >
>> > Wido
>> >
>> >>
>> >> My $0.02
>> >> Robert
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Kind regards.
>> Lu
>>
>> This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above.
>> It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise
>> protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this
>> transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended
>> addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in
>> error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the
>> sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of
>> the transmission received.
RE: Can we use other language here?
Posted by Salvatore Orlando <Sa...@eu.citrix.com>.
+1 for introducing localized mailing lists.
I think this would be best trade-off between being able to actively involve developers in different cultures and keeping a "global" mailing list in English.
English is not my first language either, but I guess I'm not at fault by stating that it is by large the most commonly known 2nd language in several parts of the world.
Salvatore
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lu Heng [mailto:h.lu@anytimechinese.com]
> Sent: 19 June 2012 13:59
> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Can we use other language here?
>
> Hi
>
> "accepted as language in software development"
>
> is as long as the person able to speak English at first place, persons are not
> able to speak English are automatically excluded in the mailling list, so
> opinions here(only from people able to speak
> English) seems will be limited as well.
>
> But just a very interesting thoughts, no one said about language restrictions
> anyway, and English is not always be the first language for many of us.
>
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>
> wrote:
> > On 06/19/2012 02:50 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
> >>
> >> On 06/19/2012 05:43 AM, Lu Heng wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi
> >>>
> >>> One very interesting question raised by my Chinese tech today, can
> >>> we use Chinese in the mailling list.
> >>>
> >>> 1. Seems there is no language restriction about in the mailling
> >>> list, and all language should be equal.
> >>>
> >>> 2. As I read and touched these days in the mailling list, a lot guy
> >>> from crixi developing CS are in fact Chinese.
> >>>
> >>> Any thoughts?
> >>>
> >>
> >> If this is needed then we should have a language specific list.
> >> However, from a development point of view that'll put a big dent into
> >> collaboration.
> >
> >
> > I'd see a cloudstack-users-cn mailinglist earlier then a Chinese
> > developer list.
> >
> > My €0,02 says we should stick to English on the development list to
> > keep collaboration consistent. English isn't my native language
> > either, but it seems to be accepted as the language in software
> development?
> >
> > As far as I know English is harder to learn for Chinese people due to
> > the huge language differences. I wouldn't vote against a Chinese
> > development list, but I wouldn't endorse it either, due to the above
> reasons.
> >
> > Wido
> >
> >>
> >> My $0.02
> >> Robert
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Kind regards.
> Lu
>
> This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above.
> It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise
> protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this
> transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended
> addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in
> error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the
> sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of
> the transmission received.
RE: Can we use other language here?
Posted by Edison Su <Ed...@citrix.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lu Heng [mailto:h.lu@anytimechinese.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:59 AM
> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Can we use other language here?
>
> Hi
>
> "accepted as language in software development"
>
> is as long as the person able to speak English at first place, persons
> are not able to speak English are automatically excluded in the
> mailling list, so opinions here(only from people able to speak
> English) seems will be limited as well.
>
> But just a very interesting thoughts, no one said about language
> restrictions anyway, and English is not always be the first language
> for many of us.
Understand, almost 20% of world's population are speaking Chinese:)
David, is it easy to setup a cloudstack-user/dev-cn mailing list? I can help to monitor it if it's there.
>
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>
> wrote:
> > On 06/19/2012 02:50 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
> >>
> >> On 06/19/2012 05:43 AM, Lu Heng wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi
> >>>
> >>> One very interesting question raised by my Chinese tech today, can
> we
> >>> use Chinese in the mailling list.
> >>>
> >>> 1. Seems there is no language restriction about in the mailling
> list,
> >>> and all language should be equal.
> >>>
> >>> 2. As I read and touched these days in the mailling list, a lot guy
> >>> from crixi developing CS are in fact Chinese.
> >>>
> >>> Any thoughts?
> >>>
> >>
> >> If this is needed then we should have a language specific list.
> However,
> >> from a development point of view that'll put a big dent into
> >> collaboration.
> >
> >
> > I'd see a cloudstack-users-cn mailinglist earlier then a Chinese
> developer
> > list.
> >
> > My €0,02 says we should stick to English on the development list to
> keep
> > collaboration consistent. English isn't my native language either,
> but it
> > seems to be accepted as the language in software development?
> >
> > As far as I know English is harder to learn for Chinese people due to
> the
> > huge language differences. I wouldn't vote against a Chinese
> development
> > list, but I wouldn't endorse it either, due to the above reasons.
> >
> > Wido
> >
> >>
> >> My $0.02
> >> Robert
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Kind regards.
> Lu
>
> This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above.
> It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or
> otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use
> of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the
> intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received
> this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and
> e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this
> message and including the text of the transmission received.
Re: Can we use other language here?
Posted by Lu Heng <h....@anytimechinese.com>.
Hi
"accepted as language in software development"
is as long as the person able to speak English at first place, persons
are not able to speak English are automatically excluded in the
mailling list, so opinions here(only from people able to speak
English) seems will be limited as well.
But just a very interesting thoughts, no one said about language
restrictions anyway, and English is not always be the first language
for many of us.
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl> wrote:
> On 06/19/2012 02:50 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
>>
>> On 06/19/2012 05:43 AM, Lu Heng wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> One very interesting question raised by my Chinese tech today, can we
>>> use Chinese in the mailling list.
>>>
>>> 1. Seems there is no language restriction about in the mailling list,
>>> and all language should be equal.
>>>
>>> 2. As I read and touched these days in the mailling list, a lot guy
>>> from crixi developing CS are in fact Chinese.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts?
>>>
>>
>> If this is needed then we should have a language specific list. However,
>> from a development point of view that'll put a big dent into
>> collaboration.
>
>
> I'd see a cloudstack-users-cn mailinglist earlier then a Chinese developer
> list.
>
> My €0,02 says we should stick to English on the development list to keep
> collaboration consistent. English isn't my native language either, but it
> seems to be accepted as the language in software development?
>
> As far as I know English is harder to learn for Chinese people due to the
> huge language differences. I wouldn't vote against a Chinese development
> list, but I wouldn't endorse it either, due to the above reasons.
>
> Wido
>
>>
>> My $0.02
>> Robert
>>
>
--
--
Kind regards.
Lu
This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above.
It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or
otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use
of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the
intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received
this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and
e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this
message and including the text of the transmission received.
Re: Can we use other language here?
Posted by Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>.
On 06/19/2012 02:50 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
> On 06/19/2012 05:43 AM, Lu Heng wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> One very interesting question raised by my Chinese tech today, can we
>> use Chinese in the mailling list.
>>
>> 1. Seems there is no language restriction about in the mailling list,
>> and all language should be equal.
>>
>> 2. As I read and touched these days in the mailling list, a lot guy
>> from crixi developing CS are in fact Chinese.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>
> If this is needed then we should have a language specific list. However,
> from a development point of view that'll put a big dent into collaboration.
I'd see a cloudstack-users-cn mailinglist earlier then a Chinese
developer list.
My €0,02 says we should stick to English on the development list to keep
collaboration consistent. English isn't my native language either, but
it seems to be accepted as the language in software development?
As far as I know English is harder to learn for Chinese people due to
the huge language differences. I wouldn't vote against a Chinese
development list, but I wouldn't endorse it either, due to the above
reasons.
Wido
>
> My $0.02
> Robert
>
Re: Can we use other language here?
Posted by Robert Schweikert <rj...@suse.com>.
On 06/19/2012 05:43 AM, Lu Heng wrote:
> Hi
>
> One very interesting question raised by my Chinese tech today, can we
> use Chinese in the mailling list.
>
> 1. Seems there is no language restriction about in the mailling list,
> and all language should be equal.
>
> 2. As I read and touched these days in the mailling list, a lot guy
> from crixi developing CS are in fact Chinese.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
If this is needed then we should have a language specific list. However,
from a development point of view that'll put a big dent into collaboration.
My $0.02
Robert
--
Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU
SUSE-IBM Software Integration Center LINUX
Tech Lead
rjschwei@suse.com
rschweik@ca.ibm.com
781-464-8147
Re: Can we use other language here?
Posted by George Reese <ge...@enstratus.com>.
Typically collaborative environments use a common language to communicate. English seems to be the best language of choice.
A user group mailing list in specific language is appropriate for localized collaboration.
-George
On Jun 19, 2012, at 4:43 AM, Lu Heng wrote:
> Hi
>
> One very interesting question raised by my Chinese tech today, can we
> use Chinese in the mailling list.
>
> 1. Seems there is no language restriction about in the mailling list,
> and all language should be equal.
>
> 2. As I read and touched these days in the mailling list, a lot guy
> from crixi developing CS are in fact Chinese.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> --
> --
> Kind regards.
> Lu
>
> This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above.
> It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or
> otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use
> of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the
> intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received
> this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and
> e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this
> message and including the text of the transmission received.
--
George Reese - Chief Technology Officer, enStratus
e: george.reese@enstratus.com Skype: nspollution t: @GeorgeReese p: +1.207.956.0217
enStratus: Enterprise Cloud Management - @enStratus - http://www.enstratus.com
To schedule a meeting with me: http://tungle.me/GeorgeReese