Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>]

Hi all,

The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within 6 hours), and no
non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1.

These are the votes:

   - V9.2: 3 votes
   - V10.2: 1 vote
   - V11.2: 0 votes
   - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the V3.1 variant was
   part of the vote)


What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between V9.2 and V3.1.
(given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than enough)

Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create a good version flying
slightly upward
<https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png>
instead
of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her good judgement to
determine if that's really an improvement.


So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon V3.1?


Kind regards,
Oscar


On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:

> Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote, but I had the
> opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office hours during the
> community over Code conference. They had some pretty specific suggestions
> (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I just want to
> capture them here!
>
> 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the r has serifs and
> the others don't.
> 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the word Avro in the
> plane's dark blue!
>
> It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice things about the
> initiative!
>
> If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any adjustments after the
> vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current logos and leaving
> any changes to Emma's discretion!
>
> All my bets Ryan
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <bl...@tabular.io> wrote:
>
> > My vote is for 10.2.
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It looks good, and it's
> > > very distinctive.
> > >
> > > And it's completely different from any send icon, so it cannot be
> > conflated
> > > with a message protocol icon.
> > >
> > > My vote is for V3.1
> > >
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Oscar
> > >
> > > --
> > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <op...@apache.org>
> > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > >
> > > Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>:
> > >
> > > > I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go with V9.2 -- I
> > > > really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper plane fits too
> > > > nicely to pass up!
> > > >
> > > > Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling the vote. I think
> > > > your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > >
> > > > Ryan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <ie...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > V9.2
> > > > >
> > > > > Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject and it is great
> to
> > > > > see the final selection.
> > > > > It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma and everyone!
> > > > >
> > > > > Ismaël
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong <fo...@apache.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hey Oscar,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active in the conversation
> > > > > > around the new logo, but I followed it from the sideline. The new
> > > > logos are
> > > > > > fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I really like the pigeon, especially the one with the envelope!
> My
> > > vote
> > > > > > goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative version :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind
> <
> > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The past month, there has been new progress on our search for a
> > new
> > > > logo (
> > > > > > > AVRO-3554 <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554>).
> > > > Thanks to
> > > > > > > Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given, we can now
> proceed
> > to
> > > > vote on
> > > > > > > the matter.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > These are the finalists to choose from (if the image is
> > unreadable,
> > > > it
> > > > > > > links to the comment where the finalists are announced):
> > > > > > > <
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts longer than a typical
> > > > release,
> > > > > > > the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > > > > <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > > > >    - to avoid confusion, please vote with the V... ifentifier:
> > > V9.2,
> > > > V10.2,
> > > > > > >    V11.2, V3.1
> > > > > > >    - the winner is the logo with at least two (2) votes more
> than
> > > the
> > > > > > >    runner-up
> > > > > > >    - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote by simple majority
> > > > between the
> > > > > > >    top picks
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please vote for your preference!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <op...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ryan Blue
> > Tabular
> >
>


-- 

✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>

-- 
Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>]

Are we still at a tie?!  :D   This is pretty funny!

If you're an Avro user, please speak up!  We need your vote :D

Thanks everyone!  Ryan

On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 11:29 AM Ismaël Mejía <ie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> +1 V9.2 (the plane)
>
> My 5 cts about the recent suggestions about the logo.
>
> The plane logo is beautiful and modernish, and I don't think really needs
> much change, e.g. going upwards does not really change much considering
> that it looks now like it is gliding smoothly which is a good metaphor for
> what the Avro experience should be.
>
> Ismaël
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 11:18 AM Claude Warren <cl...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > +1 V3.1 (non binding)
> >
> > On 2023/10/23 09:04:35 Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > TL;DR: if you haven't voted yet, please do so!
> > >
> > > As Emma has shown that an upwards angle change for V9.2 doesn't work, I
> > > think we should drop that version from the vote.
> > >
> > > This means, with the (binding) votes so far, that the result is a tie:
> > >
> > >    - V9.2: 2 votes
> > >    - V3.1: 2 votes
> > >
> > > Note: not everyone who voted the first round has voted again.
> > >
> > > *So if you have an opinion on the Avro logo, please vote!*
> > >
> > > On a side note: when I count all votes, there is no tie (there's an extra
> > > vote for v3.1). So if there are no additional votes, we can still have a
> > > result.
> > >
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Oscar
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:42, Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Oops! I realized there is a typo in my last message. I wrote that V3.2
> > is a
> > > > finalist (the pigeon without the outlines) instead of V3.1 as a
> > finalist
> > > > (the pigeon with the outlines), my mistake!
> > > > The finalists are V9.2 (or V11.2 if you prefer upwards) and V3.1
> > > > Apologies for the confusion!
> > > >
> > > > All the best,
> > > > Emma
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 9:46 AM Niels Basjes <Ni...@basjes.nl> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I had a good look at the logos and the pigeon version (v3.2 without
> > the
> > > > > line around it) has my preference.
> > > > > That said I'm totally fine if we use the v9.2 which also looks
> > awesome.
> > > > >
> > > > > Niels
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 2:37 PM Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > All of this is amazing -- it's really awesome for me to hear your
> > > > > > thought processes and arguments for the design.  I think we're
> > pretty
> > > > > > lucky to have this insight!  My apologies for the delay, I just got
> > > > > > back from a vacation following the conference :D
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I wish I had better expressed the positive sentiment we got for the
> > > > > > designs when I was showing them off in person. I passed along the
> > > > > > suggestions because they were interesting, but definitely NOT
> > > > > > presented as mandatory. There will be ZERO hard feelings if we make
> > > > > > our own decision!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I didn't say it in the first mail, but my subjective opinion is to
> > > > > > *disagree* with changing the airplane angle upwards.  Paper
> > airplanes
> > > > > > that travel well *coast* easily (like Avro data).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I maintain my v9.2 vote!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 6:59 AM David M. Carr <da...@carrclan.us>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Great work on these, Emma.  My preference is for V3.2.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 2:37 PM Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here <
> > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to visually
> > > > capture
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle of the
> > > > plane
> > > > > > logo
> > > > > > > > is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem is
> > that
> > > > the
> > > > > > blobby
> > > > > > > > bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when
> > adjusted to
> > > > > > this new
> > > > > > > > angle and make the design less clean and even less obvious as
> > to
> > > > what
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > icon is, which is why in the original upward design V11.2 I
> > didn't
> > > > > add
> > > > > > any
> > > > > > > > underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more abstract
> > > > > > representation
> > > > > > > > of the plane icon.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just rotate the
> > V9.2
> > > > > > design
> > > > > > > > to an upward angle with no other changes. This also doesn't
> > work,
> > > > > > because
> > > > > > > > the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation and the
> > > > > > underside of
> > > > > > > > the plane isn't right for this angle.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that it was
> > > > valid
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > made sense that the marketing booth preferred the upward-angle
> > > > > design.
> > > > > > When
> > > > > > > > I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward angle
> > was
> > > > > better
> > > > > > > > than the other designs, what I meant to do was just validate
> > that
> > > > it
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's hard
> > about
> > > > > > design
> > > > > > > > is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their own
> > unique
> > > > > > opinions
> > > > > > > > on what looks better.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But again, I want to make sure that the logo is something that
> > the
> > > > > > *Avro
> > > > > > > > community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the passing
> > > > > > subjective
> > > > > > > > preference of the marketing and publicity office at the
> > Community
> > > > > Over
> > > > > > Code
> > > > > > > > conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which is
> > taking
> > > > away
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I would just
> > > > like
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in the
> > final
> > > > > vote,
> > > > > > > > because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen will
> > > > ultimately
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > what represents Avro the project, and you as the contributors,
> > not
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > marketing and publicity office.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional
> > revisions
> > > > of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > icons themselves in the future, so the options for the logos
> > will
> > > > be
> > > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > > (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will be
> > > > uploading
> > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > revisions for the font used in the final design (once a winner
> > is
> > > > > > chosen)
> > > > > > > > to see if there is a better alternative on that front, but
> > > > otherwise,
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks again for
> > all
> > > > > your
> > > > > > > > patience and feedback throughout the process!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All my best,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Emma
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <
> > fokko@apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Great work again!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design,
> > icons
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > logos
> > > > > > > > > > should be memorable and have the simplest possible design
> > to
> > > > > > convey the
> > > > > > > > > > desired image
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes a lot
> > of
> > > > > > sense to
> > > > > > > > > me.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides the
> > > > underside:
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > makes the plane look incomplete.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane (which I
> > like
> > > > > as
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and the
> > paper
> > > > > > plane
> > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while the
> > pigeon
> > > > > > might
> > > > > > > > > bring up IP over Avian Carriers
> > > > > > > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > Fokko
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> > > > Kind <
> > > > > > > > > opwvhk@apache.org>:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as better
> > > > than
> > > > > > V11.2,
> > > > > > > > > > despite being angled downward. This is, I believe, because
> > the
> > > > > > angle of
> > > > > > > > > > V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look
> > > > incomplete.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1
> > otherwise.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <
> > emma.a.kellam@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and
> > > > vote!
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > wanted
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally
> > > > influenced
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > initial
> > > > > > > > > > > vote in any way!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the
> > > > > suggestions
> > > > > > > > Ryan
> > > > > > > > > > > received at the Community Over Code conference and
> > Oscar's
> > > > > > suggestion
> > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > another possible upwards variant.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties
> > > > into
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > first
> > > > > > > > > > > point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and
> > > > publicity
> > > > > > > > office.
> > > > > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > > > > we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition
> > that the
> > > > > > upward
> > > > > > > > > > design
> > > > > > > > > > > of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think
> > > > > that's
> > > > > > > > valid
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest
> > we use
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > 11.2
> > > > > > > > > > > design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some
> > slight
> > > > > > > > > adjustments
> > > > > > > > > > > to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I
> > am a
> > > > > > little
> > > > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2
> > design did
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > > beat
> > > > > > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > > > > or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of
> > > > > > voting, and
> > > > > > > > > > > ultimately I would like the final logo to be something
> > that
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > community
> > > > > > > > > > > as a whole loves and agrees upon!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT
> > Mono
> > > > font
> > > > > > > > being a
> > > > > > > > > > > little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only
> > > > serifed
> > > > > > > > letter.
> > > > > > > > > > > This is something I didn't notice before but they are
> > right!
> > > > I
> > > > > > > > actually
> > > > > > > > > > > already have five other fonts on the backburner that I
> > tried
> > > > > > when I
> > > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > > > drafting the original design versions but I personally
> > liked
> > > > > the
> > > > > > PT
> > > > > > > > > Mono
> > > > > > > > > > > font the best so gave that as the only option (which in
> > > > > hindsight
> > > > > > > > might
> > > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > > have been the best choice). What I can do is once the
> > final
> > > > > icon
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > chosen
> > > > > > > > > > > as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can
> > draft
> > > > up a
> > > > > > few
> > > > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > versions with the alternate font choices and we can
> > decide if
> > > > > > one of
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > other fonts will work better in the long run.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the
> > marketing
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > > publicity
> > > > > > > > > > > office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue,
> > I
> > > > have
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of
> > dark
> > > > > > blue in
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it
> > would be
> > > > > > > > difficult
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it
> > would be
> > > > > > > > impossible
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic
> > > > design,
> > > > > > icons
> > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible
> > > > design
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > convey
> > > > > > > > > > > the desired image. As an example of this, think of
> > Apple's
> > > > > logo,
> > > > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > > is a
> > > > > > > > > > > simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit
> > > > that
> > > > > if
> > > > > > > > Apple
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as
> > > > > effective.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > > fonts
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so
> > excited to
> > > > > see
> > > > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > > > design will be the final winner in the end! :D
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > All my best,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Emma
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe
> > -
> > > > > Kind <
> > > > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast
> > within 6
> > > > > > hours),
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > > > > non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and
> > V3.1.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > These are the votes:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >    - V9.2: 3 votes
> > > > > > > > > > > >    - V10.2: 1 vote
> > > > > > > > > > > >    - V11.2: 0 votes
> > > > > > > > > > > >    - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the
> > > > V3.1
> > > > > > > > variant
> > > > > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > > > >    part of the vote)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > What's next: one week to vote by simple majority
> > between
> > > > V9.2
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > V3.1.
> > > > > > > > > > > > (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more
> > than
> > > > > > enough)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also
> > create a
> > > > > > good
> > > > > > > > > > version
> > > > > > > > > > > > flying
> > > > > > > > > > > > slightly upward
> > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > instead
> > > > > > > > > > > > of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to
> > her
> > > > good
> > > > > > > > > judgement
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > determine if that's really an improvement.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the
> > pigeon
> > > > > V3.1?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <
> > ryan@skraba.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or
> > vote,
> > > > but
> > > > > > I had
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity
> > office
> > > > > > hours
> > > > > > > > > during
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > community over Code conference. They had some pretty
> > > > > specific
> > > > > > > > > > > suggestions
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone
> > but I
> > > > > just
> > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > capture them here!
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because
> > the
> > > > r
> > > > > > has
> > > > > > > > > serifs
> > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the others don't.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have
> > the
> > > > > word
> > > > > > Avro
> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > plane's dark blue!
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > It was a neat conversation and they said some really
> > nice
> > > > > > things
> > > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > initiative!
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any
> > > > > > adjustments
> > > > > > > > > > after
> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these
> > current
> > > > > > logos
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > leaving
> > > > > > > > > > > > > any changes to Emma's discretion!
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > All my bets Ryan
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <
> > blue@tabular.io>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > My vote is for 10.2.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van
> > Holthe
> > > > -
> > > > > > Kind <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon.
> > It
> > > > > looks
> > > > > > > > good,
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very distinctive.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And it's completely different from any send
> > icon, so
> > > > it
> > > > > > > > cannot
> > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > conflated
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with a message protocol icon.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My vote is for V3.1
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > opwvhk@apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <
> > > > > > ryan@skraba.com
> > > > > > > > >:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going
> > to go
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > > > > -- I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > really like the pigeon too, but I think the
> > paper
> > > > > plane
> > > > > > > > fits
> > > > > > > > > > too
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicely to pass up!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for
> > calling
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > vote.
> > > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ryan
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <
> > > > > > > > > iemejia@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like Fokko I was also not so close to the
> > subject
> > > > > > and it
> > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > great
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see the final selection.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It looks so great. Thanks for all the work
> > Emma
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > > everyone!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ismaël
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko
> > Driesprong <
> > > > > > > > > > > > fokko@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Oscar,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't
> > active
> > > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > conversation
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around the new logo, but I followed it
> > from the
> > > > > > > > sideline.
> > > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logos are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really like the pigeon, especially the
> > one
> > > > with
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > envelope!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > My
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vote
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the
> > alternative
> > > > > > version
> > > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar
> > Westra
> > > > > van
> > > > > > > > > Holthe -
> > > > > > > > > > > > Kind
> > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The past month, there has been new
> > progress
> > > > on
> > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > > search
> > > > > > > > > > > > for a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logo (
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AVRO-3554 <
> > > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> > > > > > > > > > > > >).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all
> > given,
> > > > > we
> > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > now
> > > > > > > > > > > > > proceed
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vote on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the matter.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These are the finalists to choose from
> > (if
> > > > the
> > > > > > image
> > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > unreadable,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > links to the comment where the finalists
> > are
> > > > > > > > > announced):
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts
> > > > > longer
> > > > > > > > than a
> > > > > > > > > > > > typical
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > release,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - to avoid confusion, please vote
> > with the
> > > > > > V...
> > > > > > > > > > > > ifentifier:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > V9.2,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > V10.2,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    V11.2, V3.1
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - the winner is the logo with at
> > least two
> > > > > (2)
> > > > > > > > votes
> > > > > > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    runner-up
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - if there is no clear winner, we'll
> > vote
> > > > by
> > > > > > > > simple
> > > > > > > > > > > > majority
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    top picks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please vote for your preference!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > > opwvhk@apache.org
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ryan Blue
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tabular
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > David M. Carr
> > > > > > > david@carrclan.us
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Best regards / Met vriendelijke groeten,
> > > > >
> > > > > Niels Basjes
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > >
> >

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Ismaël Mejía <ie...@gmail.com>]

Hello,

+1 V9.2 (the plane)

My 5 cts about the recent suggestions about the logo.

The plane logo is beautiful and modernish, and I don't think really needs
much change, e.g. going upwards does not really change much considering
that it looks now like it is gliding smoothly which is a good metaphor for
what the Avro experience should be.

Ismaël



On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 11:18 AM Claude Warren <cl...@apache.org> wrote:

> +1 V3.1 (non binding)
>
> On 2023/10/23 09:04:35 Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > TL;DR: if you haven't voted yet, please do so!
> >
> > As Emma has shown that an upwards angle change for V9.2 doesn't work, I
> > think we should drop that version from the vote.
> >
> > This means, with the (binding) votes so far, that the result is a tie:
> >
> >    - V9.2: 2 votes
> >    - V3.1: 2 votes
> >
> > Note: not everyone who voted the first round has voted again.
> >
> > *So if you have an opinion on the Avro logo, please vote!*
> >
> > On a side note: when I count all votes, there is no tie (there's an extra
> > vote for v3.1). So if there are no additional votes, we can still have a
> > result.
> >
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Oscar
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:42, Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Oops! I realized there is a typo in my last message. I wrote that V3.2
> is a
> > > finalist (the pigeon without the outlines) instead of V3.1 as a
> finalist
> > > (the pigeon with the outlines), my mistake!
> > > The finalists are V9.2 (or V11.2 if you prefer upwards) and V3.1
> > > Apologies for the confusion!
> > >
> > > All the best,
> > > Emma
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 9:46 AM Niels Basjes <Ni...@basjes.nl> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I had a good look at the logos and the pigeon version (v3.2 without
> the
> > > > line around it) has my preference.
> > > > That said I'm totally fine if we use the v9.2 which also looks
> awesome.
> > > >
> > > > Niels
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 2:37 PM Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > All of this is amazing -- it's really awesome for me to hear your
> > > > > thought processes and arguments for the design.  I think we're
> pretty
> > > > > lucky to have this insight!  My apologies for the delay, I just got
> > > > > back from a vacation following the conference :D
> > > > >
> > > > > I wish I had better expressed the positive sentiment we got for the
> > > > > designs when I was showing them off in person. I passed along the
> > > > > suggestions because they were interesting, but definitely NOT
> > > > > presented as mandatory. There will be ZERO hard feelings if we make
> > > > > our own decision!
> > > > >
> > > > > I didn't say it in the first mail, but my subjective opinion is to
> > > > > *disagree* with changing the airplane angle upwards.  Paper
> airplanes
> > > > > that travel well *coast* easily (like Avro data).
> > > > >
> > > > > I maintain my v9.2 vote!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 6:59 AM David M. Carr <da...@carrclan.us>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Great work on these, Emma.  My preference is for V3.2.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 2:37 PM Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here <
> > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to visually
> > > capture
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle of the
> > > plane
> > > > > logo
> > > > > > > is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem is
> that
> > > the
> > > > > blobby
> > > > > > > bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when
> adjusted to
> > > > > this new
> > > > > > > angle and make the design less clean and even less obvious as
> to
> > > what
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > icon is, which is why in the original upward design V11.2 I
> didn't
> > > > add
> > > > > any
> > > > > > > underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more abstract
> > > > > representation
> > > > > > > of the plane icon.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just rotate the
> V9.2
> > > > > design
> > > > > > > to an upward angle with no other changes. This also doesn't
> work,
> > > > > because
> > > > > > > the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation and the
> > > > > underside of
> > > > > > > the plane isn't right for this angle.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that it was
> > > valid
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > made sense that the marketing booth preferred the upward-angle
> > > > design.
> > > > > When
> > > > > > > I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward angle
> was
> > > > better
> > > > > > > than the other designs, what I meant to do was just validate
> that
> > > it
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's hard
> about
> > > > > design
> > > > > > > is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their own
> unique
> > > > > opinions
> > > > > > > on what looks better.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But again, I want to make sure that the logo is something that
> the
> > > > > *Avro
> > > > > > > community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the passing
> > > > > subjective
> > > > > > > preference of the marketing and publicity office at the
> Community
> > > > Over
> > > > > Code
> > > > > > > conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which is
> taking
> > > away
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I would just
> > > like
> > > > to
> > > > > > > encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in the
> final
> > > > vote,
> > > > > > > because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen will
> > > ultimately
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > what represents Avro the project, and you as the contributors,
> not
> > > > the
> > > > > > > marketing and publicity office.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional
> revisions
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > icons themselves in the future, so the options for the logos
> will
> > > be
> > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will be
> > > uploading
> > > > > some
> > > > > > > revisions for the font used in the final design (once a winner
> is
> > > > > chosen)
> > > > > > > to see if there is a better alternative on that front, but
> > > otherwise,
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks again for
> all
> > > > your
> > > > > > > patience and feedback throughout the process!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All my best,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Emma
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <
> fokko@apache.org
> > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Great work again!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design,
> icons
> > > > for
> > > > > > > logos
> > > > > > > > > should be memorable and have the simplest possible design
> to
> > > > > convey the
> > > > > > > > > desired image
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes a lot
> of
> > > > > sense to
> > > > > > > > me.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides the
> > > underside:
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > makes the plane look incomplete.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane (which I
> like
> > > > as
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and the
> paper
> > > > > plane
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while the
> pigeon
> > > > > might
> > > > > > > > bring up IP over Avian Carriers
> > > > > > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > Fokko
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> > > Kind <
> > > > > > > > opwvhk@apache.org>:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as better
> > > than
> > > > > V11.2,
> > > > > > > > > despite being angled downward. This is, I believe, because
> the
> > > > > angle of
> > > > > > > > > V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look
> > > incomplete.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1
> otherwise.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <
> emma.a.kellam@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and
> > > vote!
> > > > I
> > > > > > > wanted
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally
> > > influenced
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > initial
> > > > > > > > > > vote in any way!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the
> > > > suggestions
> > > > > > > Ryan
> > > > > > > > > > received at the Community Over Code conference and
> Oscar's
> > > > > suggestion
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > another possible upwards variant.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties
> > > into
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > first
> > > > > > > > > > point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and
> > > publicity
> > > > > > > office.
> > > > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > > > we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition
> that the
> > > > > upward
> > > > > > > > > design
> > > > > > > > > > of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think
> > > > that's
> > > > > > > valid
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest
> we use
> > > > the
> > > > > > > 11.2
> > > > > > > > > > design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some
> slight
> > > > > > > > adjustments
> > > > > > > > > > to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I
> am a
> > > > > little
> > > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2
> design did
> > > > not
> > > > > > > beat
> > > > > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > > > or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of
> > > > > voting, and
> > > > > > > > > > ultimately I would like the final logo to be something
> that
> > > the
> > > > > > > > community
> > > > > > > > > > as a whole loves and agrees upon!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT
> Mono
> > > font
> > > > > > > being a
> > > > > > > > > > little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only
> > > serifed
> > > > > > > letter.
> > > > > > > > > > This is something I didn't notice before but they are
> right!
> > > I
> > > > > > > actually
> > > > > > > > > > already have five other fonts on the backburner that I
> tried
> > > > > when I
> > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > > drafting the original design versions but I personally
> liked
> > > > the
> > > > > PT
> > > > > > > > Mono
> > > > > > > > > > font the best so gave that as the only option (which in
> > > > hindsight
> > > > > > > might
> > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > have been the best choice). What I can do is once the
> final
> > > > icon
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > chosen
> > > > > > > > > > as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can
> draft
> > > up a
> > > > > few
> > > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > versions with the alternate font choices and we can
> decide if
> > > > > one of
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > other fonts will work better in the long run.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the
> marketing
> > > and
> > > > > > > > publicity
> > > > > > > > > > office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue,
> I
> > > have
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of
> dark
> > > > > blue in
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it
> would be
> > > > > > > difficult
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it
> would be
> > > > > > > impossible
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic
> > > design,
> > > > > icons
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible
> > > design
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > convey
> > > > > > > > > > the desired image. As an example of this, think of
> Apple's
> > > > logo,
> > > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > is a
> > > > > > > > > > simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit
> > > that
> > > > if
> > > > > > > Apple
> > > > > > > > > > wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as
> > > > effective.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments
> to
> > > the
> > > > > fonts
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so
> excited to
> > > > see
> > > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > > design will be the final winner in the end! :D
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > All my best,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Emma
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe
> -
> > > > Kind <
> > > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast
> within 6
> > > > > hours),
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > > > non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and
> V3.1.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > These are the votes:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >    - V9.2: 3 votes
> > > > > > > > > > >    - V10.2: 1 vote
> > > > > > > > > > >    - V11.2: 0 votes
> > > > > > > > > > >    - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the
> > > V3.1
> > > > > > > variant
> > > > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > > >    part of the vote)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > What's next: one week to vote by simple majority
> between
> > > V9.2
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > V3.1.
> > > > > > > > > > > (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more
> than
> > > > > enough)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also
> create a
> > > > > good
> > > > > > > > > version
> > > > > > > > > > > flying
> > > > > > > > > > > slightly upward
> > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > instead
> > > > > > > > > > > of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to
> her
> > > good
> > > > > > > > judgement
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > determine if that's really an improvement.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the
> pigeon
> > > > V3.1?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <
> ryan@skraba.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or
> vote,
> > > but
> > > > > I had
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity
> office
> > > > > hours
> > > > > > > > during
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > community over Code conference. They had some pretty
> > > > specific
> > > > > > > > > > suggestions
> > > > > > > > > > > > (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone
> but I
> > > > just
> > > > > want
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > capture them here!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because
> the
> > > r
> > > > > has
> > > > > > > > serifs
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > the others don't.
> > > > > > > > > > > > 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have
> the
> > > > word
> > > > > Avro
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > plane's dark blue!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > It was a neat conversation and they said some really
> nice
> > > > > things
> > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > initiative!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any
> > > > > adjustments
> > > > > > > > > after
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these
> current
> > > > > logos
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > leaving
> > > > > > > > > > > > any changes to Emma's discretion!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > All my bets Ryan
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <
> blue@tabular.io>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > My vote is for 10.2.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van
> Holthe
> > > -
> > > > > Kind <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon.
> It
> > > > looks
> > > > > > > good,
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > very distinctive.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > And it's completely different from any send
> icon, so
> > > it
> > > > > > > cannot
> > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > conflated
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with a message protocol icon.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > My vote is for V3.1
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> opwvhk@apache.org
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <
> > > > > ryan@skraba.com
> > > > > > > >:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going
> to go
> > > > with
> > > > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > > > -- I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > really like the pigeon too, but I think the
> paper
> > > > plane
> > > > > > > fits
> > > > > > > > > too
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicely to pass up!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for
> calling
> > > > the
> > > > > > > vote.
> > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ryan
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <
> > > > > > > > iemejia@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like Fokko I was also not so close to the
> subject
> > > > > and it
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > great
> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see the final selection.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It looks so great. Thanks for all the work
> Emma
> > > and
> > > > > > > > everyone!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ismaël
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko
> Driesprong <
> > > > > > > > > > > fokko@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Oscar,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't
> active
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > conversation
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around the new logo, but I followed it
> from the
> > > > > > > sideline.
> > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logos are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really like the pigeon, especially the
> one
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > envelope!
> > > > > > > > > > > > My
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > vote
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the
> alternative
> > > > > version
> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar
> Westra
> > > > van
> > > > > > > > Holthe -
> > > > > > > > > > > Kind
> > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The past month, there has been new
> progress
> > > on
> > > > > our
> > > > > > > > search
> > > > > > > > > > > for a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logo (
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AVRO-3554 <
> > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> > > > > > > > > > > >).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all
> given,
> > > > we
> > > > > can
> > > > > > > > now
> > > > > > > > > > > > proceed
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vote on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the matter.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These are the finalists to choose from
> (if
> > > the
> > > > > image
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > unreadable,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > links to the comment where the finalists
> are
> > > > > > > > announced):
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts
> > > > longer
> > > > > > > than a
> > > > > > > > > > > typical
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > release,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - to avoid confusion, please vote
> with the
> > > > > V...
> > > > > > > > > > > ifentifier:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > V9.2,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > V10.2,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    V11.2, V3.1
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - the winner is the logo with at
> least two
> > > > (2)
> > > > > > > votes
> > > > > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    runner-up
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - if there is no clear winner, we'll
> vote
> > > by
> > > > > > > simple
> > > > > > > > > > > majority
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    top picks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please vote for your preference!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > opwvhk@apache.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ryan Blue
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Tabular
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > David M. Carr
> > > > > > david@carrclan.us
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Best regards / Met vriendelijke groeten,
> > > >
> > > > Niels Basjes
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> >
>

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Claude Warren <cl...@apache.org>]

+1 V3.1 (non binding)

On 2023/10/23 09:04:35 Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> TL;DR: if you haven't voted yet, please do so!
> 
> As Emma has shown that an upwards angle change for V9.2 doesn't work, I
> think we should drop that version from the vote.
> 
> This means, with the (binding) votes so far, that the result is a tie:
> 
>    - V9.2: 2 votes
>    - V3.1: 2 votes
> 
> Note: not everyone who voted the first round has voted again.
> 
> *So if you have an opinion on the Avro logo, please vote!*
> 
> On a side note: when I count all votes, there is no tie (there's an extra
> vote for v3.1). So if there are no additional votes, we can still have a
> result.
> 
> 
> Kind regards,
> Oscar
> 
> 
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:42, Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Oops! I realized there is a typo in my last message. I wrote that V3.2 is a
> > finalist (the pigeon without the outlines) instead of V3.1 as a finalist
> > (the pigeon with the outlines), my mistake!
> > The finalists are V9.2 (or V11.2 if you prefer upwards) and V3.1
> > Apologies for the confusion!
> >
> > All the best,
> > Emma
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 9:46 AM Niels Basjes <Ni...@basjes.nl> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I had a good look at the logos and the pigeon version (v3.2 without the
> > > line around it) has my preference.
> > > That said I'm totally fine if we use the v9.2 which also looks awesome.
> > >
> > > Niels
> > >
> > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 2:37 PM Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > All of this is amazing -- it's really awesome for me to hear your
> > > > thought processes and arguments for the design.  I think we're pretty
> > > > lucky to have this insight!  My apologies for the delay, I just got
> > > > back from a vacation following the conference :D
> > > >
> > > > I wish I had better expressed the positive sentiment we got for the
> > > > designs when I was showing them off in person. I passed along the
> > > > suggestions because they were interesting, but definitely NOT
> > > > presented as mandatory. There will be ZERO hard feelings if we make
> > > > our own decision!
> > > >
> > > > I didn't say it in the first mail, but my subjective opinion is to
> > > > *disagree* with changing the airplane angle upwards.  Paper airplanes
> > > > that travel well *coast* easily (like Avro data).
> > > >
> > > > I maintain my v9.2 vote!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 6:59 AM David M. Carr <da...@carrclan.us>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Great work on these, Emma.  My preference is for V3.2.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 2:37 PM Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here <
> > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to visually
> > capture
> > > > the
> > > > > > suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle of the
> > plane
> > > > logo
> > > > > > is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem is that
> > the
> > > > blobby
> > > > > > bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when adjusted to
> > > > this new
> > > > > > angle and make the design less clean and even less obvious as to
> > what
> > > > the
> > > > > > icon is, which is why in the original upward design V11.2 I didn't
> > > add
> > > > any
> > > > > > underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more abstract
> > > > representation
> > > > > > of the plane icon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just rotate the V9.2
> > > > design
> > > > > > to an upward angle with no other changes. This also doesn't work,
> > > > because
> > > > > > the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation and the
> > > > underside of
> > > > > > the plane isn't right for this angle.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that it was
> > valid
> > > > and
> > > > > > made sense that the marketing booth preferred the upward-angle
> > > design.
> > > > When
> > > > > > I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward angle was
> > > better
> > > > > > than the other designs, what I meant to do was just validate that
> > it
> > > > was
> > > > > > okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's hard about
> > > > design
> > > > > > is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their own unique
> > > > opinions
> > > > > > on what looks better.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But again, I want to make sure that the logo is something that the
> > > > *Avro
> > > > > > community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the passing
> > > > subjective
> > > > > > preference of the marketing and publicity office at the Community
> > > Over
> > > > Code
> > > > > > conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which is taking
> > away
> > > > from
> > > > > > the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I would just
> > like
> > > to
> > > > > > encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in the final
> > > vote,
> > > > > > because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen will
> > ultimately
> > > > be
> > > > > > what represents Avro the project, and you as the contributors, not
> > > the
> > > > > > marketing and publicity office.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional revisions
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > icons themselves in the future, so the options for the logos will
> > be
> > > > V9.2
> > > > > > (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will be
> > uploading
> > > > some
> > > > > > revisions for the font used in the final design (once a winner is
> > > > chosen)
> > > > > > to see if there is a better alternative on that front, but
> > otherwise,
> > > > the
> > > > > > icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks again for all
> > > your
> > > > > > patience and feedback throughout the process!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All my best,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Emma
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <fokko@apache.org
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Great work again!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons
> > > for
> > > > > > logos
> > > > > > > > should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to
> > > > convey the
> > > > > > > > desired image
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes a lot of
> > > > sense to
> > > > > > > me.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides the
> > underside:
> > > > this
> > > > > > > > makes the plane look incomplete.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane (which I like
> > > as
> > > > a
> > > > > > > reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and the paper
> > > > plane
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while the pigeon
> > > > might
> > > > > > > bring up IP over Avian Carriers
> > > > > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > Fokko
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> > Kind <
> > > > > > > opwvhk@apache.org>:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as better
> > than
> > > > V11.2,
> > > > > > > > despite being angled downward. This is, I believe, because the
> > > > angle of
> > > > > > > > V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look
> > incomplete.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1 otherwise.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and
> > vote!
> > > I
> > > > > > wanted
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally
> > influenced
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > initial
> > > > > > > > > vote in any way!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the
> > > suggestions
> > > > > > Ryan
> > > > > > > > > received at the Community Over Code conference and Oscar's
> > > > suggestion
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > another possible upwards variant.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties
> > into
> > > > the
> > > > > > > first
> > > > > > > > > point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and
> > publicity
> > > > > > office.
> > > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > > we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition that the
> > > > upward
> > > > > > > > design
> > > > > > > > > of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think
> > > that's
> > > > > > valid
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest we use
> > > the
> > > > > > 11.2
> > > > > > > > > design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some slight
> > > > > > > adjustments
> > > > > > > > > to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I am a
> > > > little
> > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2 design did
> > > not
> > > > > > beat
> > > > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > > or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of
> > > > voting, and
> > > > > > > > > ultimately I would like the final logo to be something that
> > the
> > > > > > > community
> > > > > > > > > as a whole loves and agrees upon!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT Mono
> > font
> > > > > > being a
> > > > > > > > > little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only
> > serifed
> > > > > > letter.
> > > > > > > > > This is something I didn't notice before but they are right!
> > I
> > > > > > actually
> > > > > > > > > already have five other fonts on the backburner that I tried
> > > > when I
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > drafting the original design versions but I personally liked
> > > the
> > > > PT
> > > > > > > Mono
> > > > > > > > > font the best so gave that as the only option (which in
> > > hindsight
> > > > > > might
> > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > have been the best choice). What I can do is once the final
> > > icon
> > > > is
> > > > > > > > chosen
> > > > > > > > > as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can draft
> > up a
> > > > few
> > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > versions with the alternate font choices and we can decide if
> > > > one of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > other fonts will work better in the long run.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the marketing
> > and
> > > > > > > publicity
> > > > > > > > > office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue, I
> > have
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > > respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of dark
> > > > blue in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it would be
> > > > > > difficult
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it would be
> > > > > > impossible
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic
> > design,
> > > > icons
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible
> > design
> > > > to
> > > > > > > convey
> > > > > > > > > the desired image. As an example of this, think of Apple's
> > > logo,
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > is a
> > > > > > > > > simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit
> > that
> > > if
> > > > > > Apple
> > > > > > > > > wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as
> > > effective.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments to
> > the
> > > > fonts
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so excited to
> > > see
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > design will be the final winner in the end! :D
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > All my best,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Emma
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> > > Kind <
> > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within 6
> > > > hours),
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > > non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > These are the votes:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >    - V9.2: 3 votes
> > > > > > > > > >    - V10.2: 1 vote
> > > > > > > > > >    - V11.2: 0 votes
> > > > > > > > > >    - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the
> > V3.1
> > > > > > variant
> > > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > >    part of the vote)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between
> > V9.2
> > > > and
> > > > > > > V3.1.
> > > > > > > > > > (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than
> > > > enough)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create a
> > > > good
> > > > > > > > version
> > > > > > > > > > flying
> > > > > > > > > > slightly upward
> > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > instead
> > > > > > > > > > of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her
> > good
> > > > > > > judgement
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > determine if that's really an improvement.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon
> > > V3.1?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote,
> > but
> > > > I had
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office
> > > > hours
> > > > > > > during
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > community over Code conference. They had some pretty
> > > specific
> > > > > > > > > suggestions
> > > > > > > > > > > (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I
> > > just
> > > > want
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > capture them here!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > > > > > > > > > > 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the
> > r
> > > > has
> > > > > > > serifs
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > the others don't.
> > > > > > > > > > > 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the
> > > word
> > > > Avro
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > plane's dark blue!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice
> > > > things
> > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > initiative!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any
> > > > adjustments
> > > > > > > > after
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current
> > > > logos
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > leaving
> > > > > > > > > > > any changes to Emma's discretion!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > All my bets Ryan
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <bl...@tabular.io>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > My vote is for 10.2.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe
> > -
> > > > Kind <
> > > > > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It
> > > looks
> > > > > > good,
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > very distinctive.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > And it's completely different from any send icon, so
> > it
> > > > > > cannot
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > > conflated
> > > > > > > > > > > > > with a message protocol icon.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > My vote is for V3.1
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <opwvhk@apache.org
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <
> > > > ryan@skraba.com
> > > > > > >:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go
> > > with
> > > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > > -- I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper
> > > plane
> > > > > > fits
> > > > > > > > too
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicely to pass up!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling
> > > the
> > > > > > vote.
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ryan
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <
> > > > > > > iemejia@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject
> > > > and it
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > great
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see the final selection.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma
> > and
> > > > > > > everyone!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ismaël
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong <
> > > > > > > > > > fokko@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Oscar,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > conversation
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around the new logo, but I followed it from the
> > > > > > sideline.
> > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > logos are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really like the pigeon, especially the one
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > envelope!
> > > > > > > > > > > My
> > > > > > > > > > > > > vote
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative
> > > > version
> > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra
> > > van
> > > > > > > Holthe -
> > > > > > > > > > Kind
> > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The past month, there has been new progress
> > on
> > > > our
> > > > > > > search
> > > > > > > > > > for a
> > > > > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > logo (
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AVRO-3554 <
> > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> > > > > > > > > > >).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given,
> > > we
> > > > can
> > > > > > > now
> > > > > > > > > > > proceed
> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > vote on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the matter.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These are the finalists to choose from (if
> > the
> > > > image
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > unreadable,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > links to the comment where the finalists are
> > > > > > > announced):
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts
> > > longer
> > > > > > than a
> > > > > > > > > > typical
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > release,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - to avoid confusion, please vote with the
> > > > V...
> > > > > > > > > > ifentifier:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > V9.2,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > V10.2,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    V11.2, V3.1
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - the winner is the logo with at least two
> > > (2)
> > > > > > votes
> > > > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    runner-up
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote
> > by
> > > > > > simple
> > > > > > > > > > majority
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    top picks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please vote for your preference!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > opwvhk@apache.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ryan Blue
> > > > > > > > > > > > Tabular
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > David M. Carr
> > > > > david@carrclan.us
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best regards / Met vriendelijke groeten,
> > >
> > > Niels Basjes
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> 

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Tim Perkins <tj...@gmail.com>]

v3.1 (non-binding)

Link to the designs in the issue for anyone that needs it:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?focusedCommentId=17770969&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-177709

On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 5:05 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind
<os...@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> TL;DR: if you haven't voted yet, please do so!
>
> As Emma has shown that an upwards angle change for V9.2 doesn't work, I
> think we should drop that version from the vote.
>
> This means, with the (binding) votes so far, that the result is a tie:
>
>    - V9.2: 2 votes
>    - V3.1: 2 votes
>
> Note: not everyone who voted the first round has voted again.
>
> *So if you have an opinion on the Avro logo, please vote!*
>
> On a side note: when I count all votes, there is no tie (there's an extra
> vote for v3.1). So if there are no additional votes, we can still have a
> result.
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Oscar
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:42, Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Oops! I realized there is a typo in my last message. I wrote that V3.2 is a
> > finalist (the pigeon without the outlines) instead of V3.1 as a finalist
> > (the pigeon with the outlines), my mistake!
> > The finalists are V9.2 (or V11.2 if you prefer upwards) and V3.1
> > Apologies for the confusion!
> >
> > All the best,
> > Emma
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 9:46 AM Niels Basjes <Ni...@basjes.nl> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I had a good look at the logos and the pigeon version (v3.2 without the
> > > line around it) has my preference.
> > > That said I'm totally fine if we use the v9.2 which also looks awesome.
> > >
> > > Niels
> > >
> > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 2:37 PM Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > All of this is amazing -- it's really awesome for me to hear your
> > > > thought processes and arguments for the design.  I think we're pretty
> > > > lucky to have this insight!  My apologies for the delay, I just got
> > > > back from a vacation following the conference :D
> > > >
> > > > I wish I had better expressed the positive sentiment we got for the
> > > > designs when I was showing them off in person. I passed along the
> > > > suggestions because they were interesting, but definitely NOT
> > > > presented as mandatory. There will be ZERO hard feelings if we make
> > > > our own decision!
> > > >
> > > > I didn't say it in the first mail, but my subjective opinion is to
> > > > *disagree* with changing the airplane angle upwards.  Paper airplanes
> > > > that travel well *coast* easily (like Avro data).
> > > >
> > > > I maintain my v9.2 vote!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 6:59 AM David M. Carr <da...@carrclan.us>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Great work on these, Emma.  My preference is for V3.2.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 2:37 PM Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here <
> > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to visually
> > capture
> > > > the
> > > > > > suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle of the
> > plane
> > > > logo
> > > > > > is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem is that
> > the
> > > > blobby
> > > > > > bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when adjusted to
> > > > this new
> > > > > > angle and make the design less clean and even less obvious as to
> > what
> > > > the
> > > > > > icon is, which is why in the original upward design V11.2 I didn't
> > > add
> > > > any
> > > > > > underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more abstract
> > > > representation
> > > > > > of the plane icon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just rotate the V9.2
> > > > design
> > > > > > to an upward angle with no other changes. This also doesn't work,
> > > > because
> > > > > > the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation and the
> > > > underside of
> > > > > > the plane isn't right for this angle.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that it was
> > valid
> > > > and
> > > > > > made sense that the marketing booth preferred the upward-angle
> > > design.
> > > > When
> > > > > > I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward angle was
> > > better
> > > > > > than the other designs, what I meant to do was just validate that
> > it
> > > > was
> > > > > > okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's hard about
> > > > design
> > > > > > is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their own unique
> > > > opinions
> > > > > > on what looks better.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But again, I want to make sure that the logo is something that the
> > > > *Avro
> > > > > > community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the passing
> > > > subjective
> > > > > > preference of the marketing and publicity office at the Community
> > > Over
> > > > Code
> > > > > > conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which is taking
> > away
> > > > from
> > > > > > the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I would just
> > like
> > > to
> > > > > > encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in the final
> > > vote,
> > > > > > because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen will
> > ultimately
> > > > be
> > > > > > what represents Avro the project, and you as the contributors, not
> > > the
> > > > > > marketing and publicity office.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional revisions
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > icons themselves in the future, so the options for the logos will
> > be
> > > > V9.2
> > > > > > (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will be
> > uploading
> > > > some
> > > > > > revisions for the font used in the final design (once a winner is
> > > > chosen)
> > > > > > to see if there is a better alternative on that front, but
> > otherwise,
> > > > the
> > > > > > icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks again for all
> > > your
> > > > > > patience and feedback throughout the process!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All my best,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Emma
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <fokko@apache.org
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Great work again!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons
> > > for
> > > > > > logos
> > > > > > > > should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to
> > > > convey the
> > > > > > > > desired image
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes a lot of
> > > > sense to
> > > > > > > me.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides the
> > underside:
> > > > this
> > > > > > > > makes the plane look incomplete.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane (which I like
> > > as
> > > > a
> > > > > > > reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and the paper
> > > > plane
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while the pigeon
> > > > might
> > > > > > > bring up IP over Avian Carriers
> > > > > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > Fokko
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> > Kind <
> > > > > > > opwvhk@apache.org>:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as better
> > than
> > > > V11.2,
> > > > > > > > despite being angled downward. This is, I believe, because the
> > > > angle of
> > > > > > > > V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look
> > incomplete.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1 otherwise.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and
> > vote!
> > > I
> > > > > > wanted
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally
> > influenced
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > initial
> > > > > > > > > vote in any way!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the
> > > suggestions
> > > > > > Ryan
> > > > > > > > > received at the Community Over Code conference and Oscar's
> > > > suggestion
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > another possible upwards variant.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties
> > into
> > > > the
> > > > > > > first
> > > > > > > > > point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and
> > publicity
> > > > > > office.
> > > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > > we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition that the
> > > > upward
> > > > > > > > design
> > > > > > > > > of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think
> > > that's
> > > > > > valid
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest we use
> > > the
> > > > > > 11.2
> > > > > > > > > design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some slight
> > > > > > > adjustments
> > > > > > > > > to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I am a
> > > > little
> > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2 design did
> > > not
> > > > > > beat
> > > > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > > or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of
> > > > voting, and
> > > > > > > > > ultimately I would like the final logo to be something that
> > the
> > > > > > > community
> > > > > > > > > as a whole loves and agrees upon!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT Mono
> > font
> > > > > > being a
> > > > > > > > > little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only
> > serifed
> > > > > > letter.
> > > > > > > > > This is something I didn't notice before but they are right!
> > I
> > > > > > actually
> > > > > > > > > already have five other fonts on the backburner that I tried
> > > > when I
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > drafting the original design versions but I personally liked
> > > the
> > > > PT
> > > > > > > Mono
> > > > > > > > > font the best so gave that as the only option (which in
> > > hindsight
> > > > > > might
> > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > have been the best choice). What I can do is once the final
> > > icon
> > > > is
> > > > > > > > chosen
> > > > > > > > > as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can draft
> > up a
> > > > few
> > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > versions with the alternate font choices and we can decide if
> > > > one of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > other fonts will work better in the long run.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the marketing
> > and
> > > > > > > publicity
> > > > > > > > > office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue, I
> > have
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > > respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of dark
> > > > blue in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it would be
> > > > > > difficult
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it would be
> > > > > > impossible
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic
> > design,
> > > > icons
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible
> > design
> > > > to
> > > > > > > convey
> > > > > > > > > the desired image. As an example of this, think of Apple's
> > > logo,
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > is a
> > > > > > > > > simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit
> > that
> > > if
> > > > > > Apple
> > > > > > > > > wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as
> > > effective.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments to
> > the
> > > > fonts
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so excited to
> > > see
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > design will be the final winner in the end! :D
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > All my best,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Emma
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> > > Kind <
> > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within 6
> > > > hours),
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > > non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > These are the votes:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >    - V9.2: 3 votes
> > > > > > > > > >    - V10.2: 1 vote
> > > > > > > > > >    - V11.2: 0 votes
> > > > > > > > > >    - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the
> > V3.1
> > > > > > variant
> > > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > >    part of the vote)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between
> > V9.2
> > > > and
> > > > > > > V3.1.
> > > > > > > > > > (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than
> > > > enough)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create a
> > > > good
> > > > > > > > version
> > > > > > > > > > flying
> > > > > > > > > > slightly upward
> > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > instead
> > > > > > > > > > of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her
> > good
> > > > > > > judgement
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > determine if that's really an improvement.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon
> > > V3.1?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote,
> > but
> > > > I had
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office
> > > > hours
> > > > > > > during
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > community over Code conference. They had some pretty
> > > specific
> > > > > > > > > suggestions
> > > > > > > > > > > (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I
> > > just
> > > > want
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > capture them here!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > > > > > > > > > > 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the
> > r
> > > > has
> > > > > > > serifs
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > the others don't.
> > > > > > > > > > > 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the
> > > word
> > > > Avro
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > plane's dark blue!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice
> > > > things
> > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > initiative!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any
> > > > adjustments
> > > > > > > > after
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current
> > > > logos
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > leaving
> > > > > > > > > > > any changes to Emma's discretion!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > All my bets Ryan
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <bl...@tabular.io>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > My vote is for 10.2.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe
> > -
> > > > Kind <
> > > > > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It
> > > looks
> > > > > > good,
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > very distinctive.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > And it's completely different from any send icon, so
> > it
> > > > > > cannot
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > > conflated
> > > > > > > > > > > > > with a message protocol icon.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > My vote is for V3.1
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <opwvhk@apache.org
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <
> > > > ryan@skraba.com
> > > > > > >:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go
> > > with
> > > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > > -- I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper
> > > plane
> > > > > > fits
> > > > > > > > too
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicely to pass up!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling
> > > the
> > > > > > vote.
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ryan
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <
> > > > > > > iemejia@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject
> > > > and it
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > great
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see the final selection.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma
> > and
> > > > > > > everyone!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ismaël
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong <
> > > > > > > > > > fokko@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Oscar,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > conversation
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around the new logo, but I followed it from the
> > > > > > sideline.
> > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > logos are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really like the pigeon, especially the one
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > envelope!
> > > > > > > > > > > My
> > > > > > > > > > > > > vote
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative
> > > > version
> > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra
> > > van
> > > > > > > Holthe -
> > > > > > > > > > Kind
> > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The past month, there has been new progress
> > on
> > > > our
> > > > > > > search
> > > > > > > > > > for a
> > > > > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > logo (
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AVRO-3554 <
> > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> > > > > > > > > > >).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given,
> > > we
> > > > can
> > > > > > > now
> > > > > > > > > > > proceed
> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > vote on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the matter.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These are the finalists to choose from (if
> > the
> > > > image
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > unreadable,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > links to the comment where the finalists are
> > > > > > > announced):
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts
> > > longer
> > > > > > than a
> > > > > > > > > > typical
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > release,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - to avoid confusion, please vote with the
> > > > V...
> > > > > > > > > > ifentifier:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > V9.2,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > V10.2,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    V11.2, V3.1
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - the winner is the logo with at least two
> > > (2)
> > > > > > votes
> > > > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    runner-up
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote
> > by
> > > > > > simple
> > > > > > > > > > majority
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > between the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    top picks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please vote for your preference!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > opwvhk@apache.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ryan Blue
> > > > > > > > > > > > Tabular
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > David M. Carr
> > > > > david@carrclan.us
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best regards / Met vriendelijke groeten,
> > >
> > > Niels Basjes
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Emma K <em...@gmail.com>]

Hi Oscar,

No problem at all! I'll work on the text/no text versions as well as colour
variations that will work for #2b2d30, #f7f8fa, and #30638e backgrounds.
Once those are all looking good I'll open a PR to change over all the
instances of the logo on the website and the repo.

All the best,

Emma

On Tue, Nov 7, 2023 at 4:03 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
opwvhk@apache.org> wrote:

> On Mon, 6 Nov 2023 at 20:22, Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Uploading just the SVG simplifies things! Should I upload the SVG file of
> > the final logo to the AVRO-3554 JIRA issue?
> >
>
> That would be a good start. Next step is to open a PR with the changes to
> add
> the logo to the website, and anywhere else it occurs in the repo.
>
>
> In terms of variants, I think we can upload the original
> >
> version to start, and if there's any desire for different layouts (square)
> > or colour schemes (dark mode compatible) I can add them as needed.
> >
>
> Let's start with a version with & without text (i.e., horizontal & square).
> A dark
> mode compatible version would be nice (I'll need the colours for the
> IntelliJ
> plugin icons), but we mostly need a version that works on a solid blue (
> #30638e).
> Either that, or change the website theme.
>
> In short: is it possible to have versions with & without text that work on
> backgrounds
> of #2b2d30 and #f7f8fa (not quite black and white), and #30638e (the
> current
> website blue)?
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Oscar
>
> --
> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <op...@apache.org>
> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
>

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <op...@apache.org>]

On Mon, 6 Nov 2023 at 20:22, Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Uploading just the SVG simplifies things! Should I upload the SVG file of
> the final logo to the AVRO-3554 JIRA issue?
>

That would be a good start. Next step is to open a PR with the changes to
add
the logo to the website, and anywhere else it occurs in the repo.


In terms of variants, I think we can upload the original
>
version to start, and if there's any desire for different layouts (square)
> or colour schemes (dark mode compatible) I can add them as needed.
>

Let's start with a version with & without text (i.e., horizontal & square).
A dark
mode compatible version would be nice (I'll need the colours for the
IntelliJ
plugin icons), but we mostly need a version that works on a solid blue (
#30638e).
Either that, or change the website theme.

In short: is it possible to have versions with & without text that work on
backgrounds
of #2b2d30 and #f7f8fa (not quite black and white), and #30638e (the current
website blue)?


Kind regards,
Oscar

-- 
✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <op...@apache.org>
🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Emma K <em...@gmail.com>]

Hello all! My apologies for the late response this message was in my drafts!

Uploading just the SVG simplifies things! Should I upload the SVG file of
the final logo to the AVRO-3554 JIRA issue?

If there aren't any objections I think we can just go ahead with the PT
Mono Bold font that's already being used in the designs to streamline the
process, subjectively it's still my favourite of the fonts I originally
shortlisted! In terms of variants, I think we can upload the original
version to start, and if there's any desire for different layouts (square)
or colour schemes (dark mode compatible) I can add them as needed.

All the best,
Emma

On Fri, Nov 3, 2023 at 1:50 PM Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:

> Hello!
>
> There's a LOT of information about branding and trademarks on the ASF
> website[1], and it can be a bit tricky navigating it correctly.
> Thanks very much for asking for permission -- I've reached out to the
> trademarks list to confirm that we are allowed to allow this!  I
> personally have no objection: to me, it seems like nominative use
> (putting the icon on *.avsc files points out that they're Apache Avro
> files, etc), but it's not my domain and we'll get a definite answer
> from an expert.
>
> You might want to proactively put the "Apache Avro, Avro™, Apache®,
> and the Apache feather logo are either registered trademarks or
> trademarks of The Apache Software Foundation." in the footer of your
> GitHub repo and in the plugin description!
>
> By the way, everyone, I don't use IDL very often, but when I do --
> Oscar's plugin is the gold standard for IDL files!  :D
>
> All my best, Ryan
>
> [1]: https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
>
> On Thu, Nov 2, 2023 at 11:37 AM Fokko Driesprong <fo...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > No objections :)
> >
> > Op vr 27 okt 2023 om 18:55 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > On a related note, I'd also like to use the final logo as plugin icon
> and
> > > as (part of the) file icon in the JetBrains Pugin I maintain. Are
> there any
> > > objections to that?
> > >
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Oscar
> > >
> > > --
> > > Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fr 27 oct 2023 18:17, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hey -- oops, this was stuck in "drafts".
> > > >
> > > > I did a bit of investigation!:
> > > >
> > > > 1) it looks like we ONLY need to submit the svg, and the others
> > > > (png/pdf) will be autocreated.  Here's what other projects do:
> > > > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/
> > > >
> > > > Note that some of the projects have many variants -- Cassandra has a
> > > > lot.  (vertical/horizontal, dark/light/black&white)  I don't think we
> > > > need every combination, and we can add future ones as desired.
> > > >
> > > > 2) How does this sound: I suggest we leave any final changes (fonts
> > > > and variants) to Emma's discretion and adopt it by lazy consensus.
> > > >
> > > > Totally subjective, but when it was pointed out to me (that the word
> > > > "Avro" only shows serifs on the "r"), I really noticed it... but that
> > > > rapidly passed.  I really have no opinion and I have more confidence
> > > > in a designer's eye than my own!
> > > >
> > > > All my best, Ryan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 5:55 PM Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you Ryan for your guidance throughout my first contribution,
> > > Oscar
> > > > > for your help driving the vote, and everyone for your kind words,
> > > > feedback,
> > > > > and votes! :D
> > > > > This was so much fun to work on and I'm so grateful for the
> opportunity
> > > > to
> > > > > help the community in this regard :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Now for the next steps! If we're unsure about the current font
> chosen
> > > (PT
> > > > > Mono Bold) I have 3 other fonts I shortlisted when creating the
> initial
> > > > > drafts of the designs that we can compare to the existing one. If
> we'd
> > > > like
> > > > > to go this route, I can upload the alternative font versions to the
> > > > > AVRO-3554 JIRA issue and we can do one more quick vote for the
> final
> > > > font.
> > > > > However, if we're happy with the current font chosen for the logo
> we
> > > can
> > > > > jump right into creating the versions to upload to the Apache
> Project
> > > > Logos
> > > > > website!
> > > > >
> > > > > On the Apache Project Logos page, it looks like it's the
> convention to
> > > > > upload two PNG versions (a 1200 x ___ size, and a 3600 x ___
> size), a
> > > PDF
> > > > > version, and an SVG version, so I'll start by creating all those
> > > versions
> > > > > of V9.2 logo design. It also looks like a lot of projects upload a
> > > square
> > > > > version of the design (the icon on top of the logo text; ex.
> Version 2
> > > of
> > > > > Apache Airflow), so I can create a square layout for the logo to go
> > > along
> > > > > with the banner version (icon beside the logo text) that we already
> > > have.
> > > > > Some projects also upload a version that can be used on dark
> > > backgrounds
> > > > > (ex. Version 2 of Apache Calcite) so if we'd also like to do that
> as
> > > well
> > > > > I'm more than happy to make some dark mode versions too! Finally,
> some
> > > > > projects upload their logo icons on their own without any text (ex.
> > > > Version
> > > > > 3 of Apache Airflow), and I can also do that if we'd like.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please let me know your thoughts, in the meantime, I'll start
> getting
> > > to
> > > > > work on either creating the alternate font options for another
> vote or
> > > > the
> > > > > final format versions :D
> > > > >
> > > > > All my best,
> > > > > Emma
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 10:55 AM Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks so much Emma for the contribution and Oscar for driving
> the
> > > > > > vote!  :D  This has been a fun thing to do -- I would love to
> see the
> > > > > > pigeon immortalized someplace!  Maybe on a website page for
> credits
> > > > > > and contributors?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Emma, what do you think we need to finalize the logo?  I'm
> starting a
> > > > > > list of places that need to be updated, starting at
> > > > > > https://www.apache.org/logos/ !
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All my best, Ryan
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 10:04 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind
> > > > > > <os...@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The vote should have ended yesterday, but somehow we managed to
> > > more
> > > > than
> > > > > > > double the number of votes and still get the same outcome. The
> > > > current
> > > > > > > tally (all votes) is 5 votes for each option.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So we're (again) at a tie.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To force a conclusion, I'd like to resort to some arbitrary but
> > > > hopefully
> > > > > > > acceptable way to break the tie. By removing my own vote we'll
> get
> > > a
> > > > > > simple
> > > > > > > majority for one of the options (the same that failed to reach
> a +2
> > > > > > > majority the previous round).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This then brings the final tally to:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    - 5 votes for V9.2 (the plane)
> > > > > > >    - 4 votes for V3.1 (the pigeon)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Which means that the winner is: *V9.2* (the plane)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you all for voting!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 at 13:51, Fokko Driesprong <
> fokko@apache.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks for the explanation, Emma!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My vote still goes to 9.2
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Op ma 23 okt 2023 om 07:39 schreef Daniel Kulp <
> dkulp@apache.org
> > > >:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > v9.2 for me.   I definitely prefer the blue color and I
> really
> > > > don’t
> > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > the pigeon.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Dan
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Oct 23, 2023, at 5:04 AM, Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> Kind <
> > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > TL;DR: if you haven't voted yet, please do so!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > As Emma has shown that an upwards angle change for V9.2
> > > doesn't
> > > > > > work, I
> > > > > > > > > > think we should drop that version from the vote.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This means, with the (binding) votes so far, that the
> result
> > > > is a
> > > > > > tie:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >   - V9.2: 2 votes
> > > > > > > > > >   - V3.1: 2 votes
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Note: not everyone who voted the first round has voted
> again.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > *So if you have an opinion on the Avro logo, please
> vote!*
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On a side note: when I count all votes, there is no tie
> > > > (there's an
> > > > > > > > extra
> > > > > > > > > > vote for v3.1). So if there are no additional votes, we
> can
> > > > still
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > result.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:42, Emma K <
> > > emma.a.kellam@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> Oops! I realized there is a typo in my last message. I
> wrote
> > > > that
> > > > > > V3.2
> > > > > > > > > is a
> > > > > > > > > >> finalist (the pigeon without the outlines) instead of
> V3.1
> > > as
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > finalist
> > > > > > > > > >> (the pigeon with the outlines), my mistake!
> > > > > > > > > >> The finalists are V9.2 (or V11.2 if you prefer upwards)
> and
> > > > V3.1
> > > > > > > > > >> Apologies for the confusion!
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> All the best,
> > > > > > > > > >> Emma
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 9:46 AM Niels Basjes <
> > > Niels@basjes.nl
> > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>> Hi,
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> I had a good look at the logos and the pigeon version
> (v3.2
> > > > > > without
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >>> line around it) has my preference.
> > > > > > > > > >>> That said I'm totally fine if we use the v9.2 which
> also
> > > > looks
> > > > > > > > awesome.
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> Niels
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 2:37 PM Ryan Skraba <
> > > ryan@skraba.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> All of this is amazing -- it's really awesome for me
> to
> > > hear
> > > > > > your
> > > > > > > > > >>>> thought processes and arguments for the design.  I
> think
> > > > we're
> > > > > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > > > >>>> lucky to have this insight!  My apologies for the
> delay, I
> > > > just
> > > > > > got
> > > > > > > > > >>>> back from a vacation following the conference :D
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> I wish I had better expressed the positive sentiment
> we
> > > got
> > > > for
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >>>> designs when I was showing them off in person. I
> passed
> > > > along
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >>>> suggestions because they were interesting, but
> definitely
> > > > NOT
> > > > > > > > > >>>> presented as mandatory. There will be ZERO hard
> feelings
> > > if
> > > > we
> > > > > > make
> > > > > > > > > >>>> our own decision!
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> I didn't say it in the first mail, but my subjective
> > > > opinion is
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > >>>> *disagree* with changing the airplane angle upwards.
> > > Paper
> > > > > > > > airplanes
> > > > > > > > > >>>> that travel well *coast* easily (like Avro data).
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> I maintain my v9.2 vote!
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 6:59 AM David M. Carr <
> > > > > > david@carrclan.us>
> > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Great work on these, Emma.  My preference is for
> V3.2.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 2:37 PM Emma K <
> > > > > > emma.a.kellam@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here <
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to
> > > > visually
> > > > > > > > > >> capture
> > > > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward
> angle
> > > > of the
> > > > > > > > > >> plane
> > > > > > > > > >>>> logo
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> is changed so that the underside is visible. The
> problem
> > > > is
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>> blobby
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> bits of the tail block the underside of the plane
> when
> > > > > > adjusted to
> > > > > > > > > >>>> this new
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> angle and make the design less clean and even less
> > > > obvious as
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > >> what
> > > > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> icon is, which is why in the original upward design
> > > V11.2
> > > > I
> > > > > > didn't
> > > > > > > > > >>> add
> > > > > > > > > >>>> any
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more
> > > > abstract
> > > > > > > > > >>>> representation
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> of the plane icon.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just
> > > rotate
> > > > the
> > > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > > > >>>> design
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> to an upward angle with no other changes. This also
> > > > doesn't
> > > > > > work,
> > > > > > > > > >>>> because
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> the flow of the blobs isn't right for this
> orientation
> > > > and the
> > > > > > > > > >>>> underside of
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> the plane isn't right for this angle.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said
> that
> > > > it
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > >> valid
> > > > > > > > > >>>> and
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> made sense that the marketing booth preferred the
> > > > upward-angle
> > > > > > > > > >>> design.
> > > > > > > > > >>>> When
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the
> upward
> > > > angle
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > >>> better
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> than the other designs, what I meant to do was just
> > > > validate
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > >> it
> > > > > > > > > >>>> was
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> okay for them to have that preference! The thing
> that's
> > > > hard
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > >>>> design
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> is that it's so subjective and everyone will have
> their
> > > > own
> > > > > > unique
> > > > > > > > > >>>> opinions
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> on what looks better.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> But again, I want to make sure that the logo is
> > > something
> > > > > > that the
> > > > > > > > > >>>> *Avro
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that
> the
> > > > passing
> > > > > > > > > >>>> subjective
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> preference of the marketing and publicity office at
> the
> > > > > > Community
> > > > > > > > > >>> Over
> > > > > > > > > >>>> Code
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here
> which
> > > is
> > > > > > taking
> > > > > > > > > >> away
> > > > > > > > > >>>> from
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I
> > > would
> > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > >> like
> > > > > > > > > >>> to
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> encourage everyone to pick the design they like
> best in
> > > > the
> > > > > > final
> > > > > > > > > >>> vote,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> because at the end of the day, the logo that's
> chosen
> > > will
> > > > > > > > > >> ultimately
> > > > > > > > > >>>> be
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> what represents Avro the project, and you as the
> > > > > > contributors, not
> > > > > > > > > >>> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> marketing and publicity office.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any
> additional
> > > > > > revisions
> > > > > > > > > >> of
> > > > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> icons themselves in the future, so the options for
> the
> > > > logos
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > > >> be
> > > > > > > > > >>>> V9.2
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I
> will
> > > > be
> > > > > > > > > >> uploading
> > > > > > > > > >>>> some
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> revisions for the font used in the final design
> (once a
> > > > > > winner is
> > > > > > > > > >>>> chosen)
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> to see if there is a better alternative on that
> front,
> > > but
> > > > > > > > > >> otherwise,
> > > > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks
> > > again
> > > > > > for all
> > > > > > > > > >>> your
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> patience and feedback throughout the process!
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> All my best,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Emma
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <
> > > > > > > > fokko@apache.org
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Great work again!
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Based on what I was taught when studying graphic
> > > design,
> > > > > > icons
> > > > > > > > > >>> for
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> logos
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> should be memorable and have the simplest possible
> > > > design to
> > > > > > > > > >>>> convey the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> desired image
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Thanks for the background information Emma, this
> makes
> > > a
> > > > lot
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > >>>> sense to
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> me.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2
> hides
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > >> underside:
> > > > > > > > > >>>> this
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> makes the plane look incomplete.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane
> > > > (which I
> > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > >>> as
> > > > > > > > > >>>> a
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon
> and
> > > > the
> > > > > > paper
> > > > > > > > > >>>> plane
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> are
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless,
> while
> > > > the
> > > > > > pigeon
> > > > > > > > > >>>> might
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> bring up IP over Avian Carriers
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers
> > > >.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as
> well.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Fokko
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van
> > > > Holthe -
> > > > > > > > > >> Kind <
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> opwvhk@apache.org>:
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived
> as
> > > > better
> > > > > > > > > >> than
> > > > > > > > > >>>> V11.2,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> despite being angled downward. This is, I believe,
> > > > because
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >>>> angle of
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane
> look
> > > > > > > > > >> incomplete.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1
> > > > > > otherwise.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <
> > > > > > emma.a.kellam@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Thank you for your kind words throughout the
> process
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > > >> vote!
> > > > > > > > > >>> I
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> wanted
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> refrain from jumping in earlier lest I
> accidentally
> > > > > > > > > >> influenced
> > > > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> initial
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> vote in any way!
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts
> on the
> > > > > > > > > >>> suggestions
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Ryan
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> received at the Community Over Code conference
> and
> > > > Oscar's
> > > > > > > > > >>>> suggestion
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> of
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> another possible upwards variant.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which
> also
> > > > ties
> > > > > > > > > >> into
> > > > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> first
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> point of advice Ryan received from the marketing
> and
> > > > > > > > > >> publicity
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> office.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> If
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's
> intuition
> > > > that
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >>>> upward
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> design
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> of 11.2 is better than the downward design of
> 9.2 I
> > > > think
> > > > > > > > > >>> that's
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> valid
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> and
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> makes sense! If this is the case, then I would
> > > suggest
> > > > we
> > > > > > use
> > > > > > > > > >>> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> 11.2
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make
> > > some
> > > > > > slight
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> adjustments
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add
> > > that
> > > > I
> > > > > > am a
> > > > > > > > > >>>> little
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> more
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> hesitant about this approach only because the
> 11.2
> > > > design
> > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > > >>> not
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> beat
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> out
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first
> > > round
> > > > of
> > > > > > > > > >>>> voting, and
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> ultimately I would like the final logo to be
> > > something
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> community
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> as a whole loves and agrees upon!
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> The next suggestion Ryan received was based on
> the PT
> > > > Mono
> > > > > > > > > >> font
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> being a
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is
> the
> > > only
> > > > > > > > > >> serifed
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> letter.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> This is something I didn't notice before but
> they are
> > > > > > right!
> > > > > > > > > >> I
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> actually
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> already have five other fonts on the backburner
> that
> > > I
> > > > > > tried
> > > > > > > > > >>>> when I
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> was
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> drafting the original design versions but I
> > > personally
> > > > > > liked
> > > > > > > > > >>> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>> PT
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Mono
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> font the best so gave that as the only option
> (which
> > > in
> > > > > > > > > >>> hindsight
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> might
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> not
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> have been the best choice). What I can do is
> once the
> > > > final
> > > > > > > > > >>> icon
> > > > > > > > > >>>> is
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> chosen
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I
> can
> > > > draft
> > > > > > > > > >> up a
> > > > > > > > > >>>> few
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> more
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> versions with the alternate font choices and we
> can
> > > > decide
> > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > >>>> one of
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> other fonts will work better in the long run.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the
> > > > marketing
> > > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> publicity
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> office of having the word Avro in the plane's
> dark
> > > > blue, I
> > > > > > > > > >> have
> > > > > > > > > >>>> to
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> respectfully disagree with this assessment. The
> area
> > > of
> > > > > > dark
> > > > > > > > > >>>> blue in
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> plane icons is so small that even at large sizes
> it
> > > > would
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> difficult
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes,
> it
> > > > would
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> impossible
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> parse. Based on what I was taught when studying
> > > graphic
> > > > > > > > > >> design,
> > > > > > > > > >>>> icons
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> for
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> logos should be memorable and have the simplest
> > > > possible
> > > > > > > > > >> design
> > > > > > > > > >>>> to
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> convey
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> the desired image. As an example of this, think
> of
> > > > Apple's
> > > > > > > > > >>> logo,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> which
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> is a
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I
> would
> > > > posit
> > > > > > > > > >> that
> > > > > > > > > >>> if
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Apple
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be
> nearly as
> > > > > > > > > >>> effective.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more
> > > > adjustments to
> > > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>> fonts
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> and
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so
> > > > excited
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > >>> see
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> which
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> design will be the final winner in the end! :D
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> All my best,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Emma
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van
> > > > Holthe -
> > > > > > > > > >>> Kind <
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all
> cast
> > > > within
> > > > > > 6
> > > > > > > > > >>>> hours),
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> and
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> no
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2
> and
> > > > V3.1.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> These are the votes:
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V9.2: 3 votes
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V10.2: 1 vote
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V11.2: 0 votes
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1,
> as
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > >> V3.1
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> variant
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> was
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   part of the vote)
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> What's next: one week to vote by simple majority
> > > > between
> > > > > > > > > >> V9.2
> > > > > > > > > >>>> and
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> V3.1.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> (given our quick votes last time, it's probably
> more
> > > > than
> > > > > > > > > >>>> enough)
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can
> also
> > > > create
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > >>>> good
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> version
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> flying
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> slightly upward
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> <
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> instead
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it
> up to
> > > > her
> > > > > > > > > >> good
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> judgement
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> determine if that's really an improvement.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or
> the
> > > > pigeon
> > > > > > > > > >>> V3.1?
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <
> > > > ryan@skraba.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation
> or
> > > > vote,
> > > > > > > > > >> but
> > > > > > > > > >>>> I had
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> opportunity to attend the marketing and
> publicity
> > > > office
> > > > > > > > > >>>> hours
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> during
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> community over Code conference. They had some
> > > pretty
> > > > > > > > > >>> specific
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> suggestions
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> (but not requirements of course). I'm on my
> phone
> > > > but I
> > > > > > > > > >>> just
> > > > > > > > > >>>> want
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> capture them here!
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word
> > > because
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >> r
> > > > > > > > > >>>> has
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> serifs
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> and
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the others don't.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to
> have
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >>> word
> > > > > > > > > >>>> Avro
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> in
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> plane's dark blue!
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> It was a neat conversation and they said some
> > > really
> > > > nice
> > > > > > > > > >>>> things
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> about
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> initiative!
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk
> about
> > > any
> > > > > > > > > >>>> adjustments
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> after
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with
> these
> > > > current
> > > > > > > > > >>>> logos
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> and
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> leaving
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> any changes to Emma's discretion!
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> All my bets Ryan
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <
> > > > blue@tabular.io>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> My vote is for 10.2.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra
> van
> > > > Holthe
> > > > > > > > > >> -
> > > > > > > > > >>>> Kind <
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the start, I've been a fan of the
> pigeon.
> > > It
> > > > > > > > > >>> looks
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> good,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> and
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> it's
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> very distinctive.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And it's completely different from any send
> icon,
> > > > so
> > > > > > > > > >> it
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> cannot
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> be
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> conflated
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> with a message protocol icon.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> My vote is for V3.1
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > opwvhk@apache.org
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <
> > > > > > > > > >>>> ryan@skraba.com
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> :
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm
> going to
> > > go
> > > > > > > > > >>> with
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> V9.2
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> -- I
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> really like the pigeon too, but I think the
> > > paper
> > > > > > > > > >>> plane
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> fits
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> too
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nicely to pass up!
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for
> > > calling
> > > > > > > > > >>> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> vote.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> I
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> think
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía
> <
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> iemejia@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> V9.2
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like Fokko I was also not so close to the
> > > subject
> > > > > > > > > >>>> and it
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> is
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> great
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see the final selection.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It looks so great. Thanks for all the work
> Emma
> > > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> everyone!
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ismaël
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko
> > > Driesprong <
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> fokko@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Oscar,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't
> active
> > > > > > > > > >> in
> > > > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> conversation
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around the new logo, but I followed it
> from
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> sideline.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> The
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> new
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> logos are
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the pigeon, especially the
> one
> > > > > > > > > >> with
> > > > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> envelope!
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> My
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> vote
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the
> > > alternative
> > > > > > > > > >>>> version
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> :)
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar
> Westra
> > > > > > > > > >>> van
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Holthe -
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Kind
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> <
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The past month, there has been new
> progress
> > > > > > > > > >> on
> > > > > > > > > >>>> our
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> search
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> for a
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> new
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo (
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AVRO-3554 <
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ).
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks to
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all
> given,
> > > > > > > > > >>> we
> > > > > > > > > >>>> can
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> now
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> proceed
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> vote on
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the matter.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These are the finalists to choose from
> (if
> > > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>> image
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> is
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> unreadable,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> links to the comment where the finalists
> are
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> announced):
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts
> > > > > > > > > >>> longer
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> than a
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> typical
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> release,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - to avoid confusion, please vote with
> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>> V...
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> ifentifier:
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> V9.2,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> V10.2,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   V11.2, V3.1
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - the winner is the logo with at least
> two
> > > > > > > > > >>> (2)
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> votes
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> more
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> than
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   runner-up
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - if there is no clear winner, we'll
> vote
> > > > > > > > > >> by
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> simple
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> majority
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> between the
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   top picks
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please vote for your preference!
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > > > > > >>>> opwvhk@apache.org
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Blue
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Tabular
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > > > > > >> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> --
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> David M. Carr
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> david@carrclan.us
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> --
> > > > > > > > > >>> Best regards / Met vriendelijke groeten,
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> Niels Basjes
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > Daniel Kulp
> > > > > > > > > dkulp@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > Qlik - https://qlik.com <https://qlik.com/>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
>

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>]

Hello!

There's a LOT of information about branding and trademarks on the ASF
website[1], and it can be a bit tricky navigating it correctly.
Thanks very much for asking for permission -- I've reached out to the
trademarks list to confirm that we are allowed to allow this!  I
personally have no objection: to me, it seems like nominative use
(putting the icon on *.avsc files points out that they're Apache Avro
files, etc), but it's not my domain and we'll get a definite answer
from an expert.

You might want to proactively put the "Apache Avro, Avro™, Apache®,
and the Apache feather logo are either registered trademarks or
trademarks of The Apache Software Foundation." in the footer of your
GitHub repo and in the plugin description!

By the way, everyone, I don't use IDL very often, but when I do --
Oscar's plugin is the gold standard for IDL files!  :D

All my best, Ryan

[1]: https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/

On Thu, Nov 2, 2023 at 11:37 AM Fokko Driesprong <fo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> No objections :)
>
> Op vr 27 okt 2023 om 18:55 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > On a related note, I'd also like to use the final logo as plugin icon and
> > as (part of the) file icon in the JetBrains Pugin I maintain. Are there any
> > objections to that?
> >
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Oscar
> >
> > --
> > Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> >
> >
> > On Fr 27 oct 2023 18:17, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hey -- oops, this was stuck in "drafts".
> > >
> > > I did a bit of investigation!:
> > >
> > > 1) it looks like we ONLY need to submit the svg, and the others
> > > (png/pdf) will be autocreated.  Here's what other projects do:
> > > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/
> > >
> > > Note that some of the projects have many variants -- Cassandra has a
> > > lot.  (vertical/horizontal, dark/light/black&white)  I don't think we
> > > need every combination, and we can add future ones as desired.
> > >
> > > 2) How does this sound: I suggest we leave any final changes (fonts
> > > and variants) to Emma's discretion and adopt it by lazy consensus.
> > >
> > > Totally subjective, but when it was pointed out to me (that the word
> > > "Avro" only shows serifs on the "r"), I really noticed it... but that
> > > rapidly passed.  I really have no opinion and I have more confidence
> > > in a designer's eye than my own!
> > >
> > > All my best, Ryan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 5:55 PM Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thank you Ryan for your guidance throughout my first contribution,
> > Oscar
> > > > for your help driving the vote, and everyone for your kind words,
> > > feedback,
> > > > and votes! :D
> > > > This was so much fun to work on and I'm so grateful for the opportunity
> > > to
> > > > help the community in this regard :)
> > > >
> > > > Now for the next steps! If we're unsure about the current font chosen
> > (PT
> > > > Mono Bold) I have 3 other fonts I shortlisted when creating the initial
> > > > drafts of the designs that we can compare to the existing one. If we'd
> > > like
> > > > to go this route, I can upload the alternative font versions to the
> > > > AVRO-3554 JIRA issue and we can do one more quick vote for the final
> > > font.
> > > > However, if we're happy with the current font chosen for the logo we
> > can
> > > > jump right into creating the versions to upload to the Apache Project
> > > Logos
> > > > website!
> > > >
> > > > On the Apache Project Logos page, it looks like it's the convention to
> > > > upload two PNG versions (a 1200 x ___ size, and a 3600 x ___ size), a
> > PDF
> > > > version, and an SVG version, so I'll start by creating all those
> > versions
> > > > of V9.2 logo design. It also looks like a lot of projects upload a
> > square
> > > > version of the design (the icon on top of the logo text; ex. Version 2
> > of
> > > > Apache Airflow), so I can create a square layout for the logo to go
> > along
> > > > with the banner version (icon beside the logo text) that we already
> > have.
> > > > Some projects also upload a version that can be used on dark
> > backgrounds
> > > > (ex. Version 2 of Apache Calcite) so if we'd also like to do that as
> > well
> > > > I'm more than happy to make some dark mode versions too! Finally, some
> > > > projects upload their logo icons on their own without any text (ex.
> > > Version
> > > > 3 of Apache Airflow), and I can also do that if we'd like.
> > > >
> > > > Please let me know your thoughts, in the meantime, I'll start getting
> > to
> > > > work on either creating the alternate font options for another vote or
> > > the
> > > > final format versions :D
> > > >
> > > > All my best,
> > > > Emma
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 10:55 AM Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks so much Emma for the contribution and Oscar for driving the
> > > > > vote!  :D  This has been a fun thing to do -- I would love to see the
> > > > > pigeon immortalized someplace!  Maybe on a website page for credits
> > > > > and contributors?
> > > > >
> > > > > Emma, what do you think we need to finalize the logo?  I'm starting a
> > > > > list of places that need to be updated, starting at
> > > > > https://www.apache.org/logos/ !
> > > > >
> > > > > All my best, Ryan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 10:04 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind
> > > > > <os...@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The vote should have ended yesterday, but somehow we managed to
> > more
> > > than
> > > > > > double the number of votes and still get the same outcome. The
> > > current
> > > > > > tally (all votes) is 5 votes for each option.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So we're (again) at a tie.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To force a conclusion, I'd like to resort to some arbitrary but
> > > hopefully
> > > > > > acceptable way to break the tie. By removing my own vote we'll get
> > a
> > > > > simple
> > > > > > majority for one of the options (the same that failed to reach a +2
> > > > > > majority the previous round).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This then brings the final tally to:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    - 5 votes for V9.2 (the plane)
> > > > > >    - 4 votes for V3.1 (the pigeon)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Which means that the winner is: *V9.2* (the plane)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you all for voting!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 at 13:51, Fokko Driesprong <fo...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for the explanation, Emma!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My vote still goes to 9.2
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Op ma 23 okt 2023 om 07:39 schreef Daniel Kulp <dkulp@apache.org
> > >:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > v9.2 for me.   I definitely prefer the blue color and I really
> > > don’t
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > > the pigeon.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dan
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Oct 23, 2023, at 5:04 AM, Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > TL;DR: if you haven't voted yet, please do so!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As Emma has shown that an upwards angle change for V9.2
> > doesn't
> > > > > work, I
> > > > > > > > > think we should drop that version from the vote.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This means, with the (binding) votes so far, that the result
> > > is a
> > > > > tie:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >   - V9.2: 2 votes
> > > > > > > > >   - V3.1: 2 votes
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Note: not everyone who voted the first round has voted again.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > *So if you have an opinion on the Avro logo, please vote!*
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On a side note: when I count all votes, there is no tie
> > > (there's an
> > > > > > > extra
> > > > > > > > > vote for v3.1). So if there are no additional votes, we can
> > > still
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > result.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:42, Emma K <
> > emma.a.kellam@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> Oops! I realized there is a typo in my last message. I wrote
> > > that
> > > > > V3.2
> > > > > > > > is a
> > > > > > > > >> finalist (the pigeon without the outlines) instead of V3.1
> > as
> > > a
> > > > > > > finalist
> > > > > > > > >> (the pigeon with the outlines), my mistake!
> > > > > > > > >> The finalists are V9.2 (or V11.2 if you prefer upwards) and
> > > V3.1
> > > > > > > > >> Apologies for the confusion!
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> All the best,
> > > > > > > > >> Emma
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 9:46 AM Niels Basjes <
> > Niels@basjes.nl
> > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>> Hi,
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> I had a good look at the logos and the pigeon version (v3.2
> > > > > without
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >>> line around it) has my preference.
> > > > > > > > >>> That said I'm totally fine if we use the v9.2 which also
> > > looks
> > > > > > > awesome.
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> Niels
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 2:37 PM Ryan Skraba <
> > ryan@skraba.com
> > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>>> All of this is amazing -- it's really awesome for me to
> > hear
> > > > > your
> > > > > > > > >>>> thought processes and arguments for the design.  I think
> > > we're
> > > > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > > >>>> lucky to have this insight!  My apologies for the delay, I
> > > just
> > > > > got
> > > > > > > > >>>> back from a vacation following the conference :D
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>> I wish I had better expressed the positive sentiment we
> > got
> > > for
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >>>> designs when I was showing them off in person. I passed
> > > along
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >>>> suggestions because they were interesting, but definitely
> > > NOT
> > > > > > > > >>>> presented as mandatory. There will be ZERO hard feelings
> > if
> > > we
> > > > > make
> > > > > > > > >>>> our own decision!
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>> I didn't say it in the first mail, but my subjective
> > > opinion is
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >>>> *disagree* with changing the airplane angle upwards.
> > Paper
> > > > > > > airplanes
> > > > > > > > >>>> that travel well *coast* easily (like Avro data).
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>> I maintain my v9.2 vote!
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 6:59 AM David M. Carr <
> > > > > david@carrclan.us>
> > > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>> Great work on these, Emma.  My preference is for V3.2.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 2:37 PM Emma K <
> > > > > emma.a.kellam@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here <
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to
> > > visually
> > > > > > > > >> capture
> > > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle
> > > of the
> > > > > > > > >> plane
> > > > > > > > >>>> logo
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem
> > > is
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > >>>> blobby
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when
> > > > > adjusted to
> > > > > > > > >>>> this new
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> angle and make the design less clean and even less
> > > obvious as
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> what
> > > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> icon is, which is why in the original upward design
> > V11.2
> > > I
> > > > > didn't
> > > > > > > > >>> add
> > > > > > > > >>>> any
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more
> > > abstract
> > > > > > > > >>>> representation
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> of the plane icon.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just
> > rotate
> > > the
> > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > > >>>> design
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> to an upward angle with no other changes. This also
> > > doesn't
> > > > > work,
> > > > > > > > >>>> because
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation
> > > and the
> > > > > > > > >>>> underside of
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> the plane isn't right for this angle.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that
> > > it
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > > >> valid
> > > > > > > > >>>> and
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> made sense that the marketing booth preferred the
> > > upward-angle
> > > > > > > > >>> design.
> > > > > > > > >>>> When
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward
> > > angle
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > > >>> better
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> than the other designs, what I meant to do was just
> > > validate
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > >> it
> > > > > > > > >>>> was
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's
> > > hard
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > > >>>> design
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their
> > > own
> > > > > unique
> > > > > > > > >>>> opinions
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> on what looks better.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> But again, I want to make sure that the logo is
> > something
> > > > > that the
> > > > > > > > >>>> *Avro
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the
> > > passing
> > > > > > > > >>>> subjective
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> preference of the marketing and publicity office at the
> > > > > Community
> > > > > > > > >>> Over
> > > > > > > > >>>> Code
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which
> > is
> > > > > taking
> > > > > > > > >> away
> > > > > > > > >>>> from
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I
> > would
> > > > > just
> > > > > > > > >> like
> > > > > > > > >>> to
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in
> > > the
> > > > > final
> > > > > > > > >>> vote,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen
> > will
> > > > > > > > >> ultimately
> > > > > > > > >>>> be
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> what represents Avro the project, and you as the
> > > > > contributors, not
> > > > > > > > >>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> marketing and publicity office.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional
> > > > > revisions
> > > > > > > > >> of
> > > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> icons themselves in the future, so the options for the
> > > logos
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > > >> be
> > > > > > > > >>>> V9.2
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will
> > > be
> > > > > > > > >> uploading
> > > > > > > > >>>> some
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> revisions for the font used in the final design (once a
> > > > > winner is
> > > > > > > > >>>> chosen)
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> to see if there is a better alternative on that front,
> > but
> > > > > > > > >> otherwise,
> > > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks
> > again
> > > > > for all
> > > > > > > > >>> your
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> patience and feedback throughout the process!
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> All my best,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> Emma
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <
> > > > > > > fokko@apache.org
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Great work again!
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Based on what I was taught when studying graphic
> > design,
> > > > > icons
> > > > > > > > >>> for
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> logos
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> should be memorable and have the simplest possible
> > > design to
> > > > > > > > >>>> convey the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> desired image
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes
> > a
> > > lot
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >>>> sense to
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> me.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides
> > the
> > > > > > > > >> underside:
> > > > > > > > >>>> this
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> makes the plane look incomplete.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane
> > > (which I
> > > > > like
> > > > > > > > >>> as
> > > > > > > > >>>> a
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and
> > > the
> > > > > paper
> > > > > > > > >>>> plane
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> are
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while
> > > the
> > > > > pigeon
> > > > > > > > >>>> might
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> bring up IP over Avian Carriers
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers
> > >.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Fokko
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van
> > > Holthe -
> > > > > > > > >> Kind <
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> opwvhk@apache.org>:
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as
> > > better
> > > > > > > > >> than
> > > > > > > > >>>> V11.2,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> despite being angled downward. This is, I believe,
> > > because
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >>>> angle of
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look
> > > > > > > > >> incomplete.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1
> > > > > otherwise.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <
> > > > > emma.a.kellam@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Thank you for your kind words throughout the process
> > > and
> > > > > > > > >> vote!
> > > > > > > > >>> I
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> wanted
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally
> > > > > > > > >> influenced
> > > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> initial
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> vote in any way!
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the
> > > > > > > > >>> suggestions
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> Ryan
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> received at the Community Over Code conference and
> > > Oscar's
> > > > > > > > >>>> suggestion
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> of
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> another possible upwards variant.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also
> > > ties
> > > > > > > > >> into
> > > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> first
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and
> > > > > > > > >> publicity
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> office.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> If
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition
> > > that
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >>>> upward
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> design
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I
> > > think
> > > > > > > > >>> that's
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> valid
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> and
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> makes sense! If this is the case, then I would
> > suggest
> > > we
> > > > > use
> > > > > > > > >>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> 11.2
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make
> > some
> > > > > slight
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> adjustments
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add
> > that
> > > I
> > > > > am a
> > > > > > > > >>>> little
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> more
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2
> > > design
> > > > > did
> > > > > > > > >>> not
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> beat
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> out
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first
> > round
> > > of
> > > > > > > > >>>> voting, and
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> ultimately I would like the final logo to be
> > something
> > > that
> > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> community
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> as a whole loves and agrees upon!
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT
> > > Mono
> > > > > > > > >> font
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> being a
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the
> > only
> > > > > > > > >> serifed
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> letter.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> This is something I didn't notice before but they are
> > > > > right!
> > > > > > > > >> I
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> actually
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> already have five other fonts on the backburner that
> > I
> > > > > tried
> > > > > > > > >>>> when I
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> was
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> drafting the original design versions but I
> > personally
> > > > > liked
> > > > > > > > >>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>> PT
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Mono
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> font the best so gave that as the only option (which
> > in
> > > > > > > > >>> hindsight
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> might
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> not
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> have been the best choice). What I can do is once the
> > > final
> > > > > > > > >>> icon
> > > > > > > > >>>> is
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> chosen
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can
> > > draft
> > > > > > > > >> up a
> > > > > > > > >>>> few
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> more
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> versions with the alternate font choices and we can
> > > decide
> > > > > if
> > > > > > > > >>>> one of
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> other fonts will work better in the long run.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the
> > > marketing
> > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> publicity
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark
> > > blue, I
> > > > > > > > >> have
> > > > > > > > >>>> to
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area
> > of
> > > > > dark
> > > > > > > > >>>> blue in
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it
> > > would
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> difficult
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it
> > > would
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> impossible
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> parse. Based on what I was taught when studying
> > graphic
> > > > > > > > >> design,
> > > > > > > > >>>> icons
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> for
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> logos should be memorable and have the simplest
> > > possible
> > > > > > > > >> design
> > > > > > > > >>>> to
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> convey
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> the desired image. As an example of this, think of
> > > Apple's
> > > > > > > > >>> logo,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> which
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> is a
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would
> > > posit
> > > > > > > > >> that
> > > > > > > > >>> if
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> Apple
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as
> > > > > > > > >>> effective.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more
> > > adjustments to
> > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > >>>> fonts
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> and
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so
> > > excited
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >>> see
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> which
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> design will be the final winner in the end! :D
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> All my best,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Emma
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van
> > > Holthe -
> > > > > > > > >>> Kind <
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast
> > > within
> > > > > 6
> > > > > > > > >>>> hours),
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> and
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> no
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and
> > > V3.1.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> These are the votes:
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V9.2: 3 votes
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V10.2: 1 vote
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V11.2: 0 votes
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as
> > the
> > > > > > > > >> V3.1
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> variant
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> was
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   part of the vote)
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> What's next: one week to vote by simple majority
> > > between
> > > > > > > > >> V9.2
> > > > > > > > >>>> and
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> V3.1.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more
> > > than
> > > > > > > > >>>> enough)
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also
> > > create
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > >>>> good
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> version
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> flying
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> slightly upward
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> <
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> instead
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to
> > > her
> > > > > > > > >> good
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> judgement
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> determine if that's really an improvement.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the
> > > pigeon
> > > > > > > > >>> V3.1?
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <
> > > ryan@skraba.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or
> > > vote,
> > > > > > > > >> but
> > > > > > > > >>>> I had
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity
> > > office
> > > > > > > > >>>> hours
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> during
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> community over Code conference. They had some
> > pretty
> > > > > > > > >>> specific
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> suggestions
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone
> > > but I
> > > > > > > > >>> just
> > > > > > > > >>>> want
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> capture them here!
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word
> > because
> > > the
> > > > > > > > >> r
> > > > > > > > >>>> has
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> serifs
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> and
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the others don't.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have
> > > the
> > > > > > > > >>> word
> > > > > > > > >>>> Avro
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> in
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> plane's dark blue!
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> It was a neat conversation and they said some
> > really
> > > nice
> > > > > > > > >>>> things
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> about
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> initiative!
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about
> > any
> > > > > > > > >>>> adjustments
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> after
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these
> > > current
> > > > > > > > >>>> logos
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> and
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> leaving
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> any changes to Emma's discretion!
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> All my bets Ryan
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <
> > > blue@tabular.io>
> > > > > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> My vote is for 10.2.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van
> > > Holthe
> > > > > > > > >> -
> > > > > > > > >>>> Kind <
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon.
> > It
> > > > > > > > >>> looks
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> good,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> and
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> it's
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> very distinctive.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And it's completely different from any send icon,
> > > so
> > > > > > > > >> it
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> cannot
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> be
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> conflated
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> with a message protocol icon.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> My vote is for V3.1
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > opwvhk@apache.org
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <
> > > > > > > > >>>> ryan@skraba.com
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> :
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to
> > go
> > > > > > > > >>> with
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> V9.2
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> -- I
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> really like the pigeon too, but I think the
> > paper
> > > > > > > > >>> plane
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> fits
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> too
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nicely to pass up!
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for
> > calling
> > > > > > > > >>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> vote.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> I
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> think
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> iemejia@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> V9.2
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like Fokko I was also not so close to the
> > subject
> > > > > > > > >>>> and it
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> is
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> great
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see the final selection.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma
> > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> everyone!
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ismaël
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko
> > Driesprong <
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> fokko@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Oscar,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active
> > > > > > > > >> in
> > > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> conversation
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around the new logo, but I followed it from
> > the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> sideline.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> The
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> new
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> logos are
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the pigeon, especially the one
> > > > > > > > >> with
> > > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> envelope!
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> My
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> vote
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the
> > alternative
> > > > > > > > >>>> version
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> :)
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra
> > > > > > > > >>> van
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Holthe -
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Kind
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> <
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The past month, there has been new progress
> > > > > > > > >> on
> > > > > > > > >>>> our
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> search
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> for a
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> new
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo (
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AVRO-3554 <
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ).
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks to
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given,
> > > > > > > > >>> we
> > > > > > > > >>>> can
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> now
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> proceed
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> vote on
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the matter.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These are the finalists to choose from (if
> > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > >>>> image
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> is
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> unreadable,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> links to the comment where the finalists are
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> announced):
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts
> > > > > > > > >>> longer
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> than a
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> typical
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> release,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - to avoid confusion, please vote with the
> > > > > > > > >>>> V...
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> ifentifier:
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> V9.2,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> V10.2,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   V11.2, V3.1
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - the winner is the logo with at least two
> > > > > > > > >>> (2)
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> votes
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> more
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> than
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   runner-up
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote
> > > > > > > > >> by
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> simple
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> majority
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> between the
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   top picks
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please vote for your preference!
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > > > > >>>> opwvhk@apache.org
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Blue
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Tabular
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > > > > >> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>> --
> > > > > > > > >>>>> David M. Carr
> > > > > > > > >>>>> david@carrclan.us
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> --
> > > > > > > > >>> Best regards / Met vriendelijke groeten,
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> Niels Basjes
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Daniel Kulp
> > > > > > > > dkulp@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > Qlik - https://qlik.com <https://qlik.com/>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > >
> > >
> >

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Fokko Driesprong <fo...@apache.org>]

No objections :)

Op vr 27 okt 2023 om 18:55 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:

> Hi all,
>
> On a related note, I'd also like to use the final logo as plugin icon and
> as (part of the) file icon in the JetBrains Pugin I maintain. Are there any
> objections to that?
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Oscar
>
> --
> Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
>
>
> On Fr 27 oct 2023 18:17, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
>
> > Hey -- oops, this was stuck in "drafts".
> >
> > I did a bit of investigation!:
> >
> > 1) it looks like we ONLY need to submit the svg, and the others
> > (png/pdf) will be autocreated.  Here's what other projects do:
> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/
> >
> > Note that some of the projects have many variants -- Cassandra has a
> > lot.  (vertical/horizontal, dark/light/black&white)  I don't think we
> > need every combination, and we can add future ones as desired.
> >
> > 2) How does this sound: I suggest we leave any final changes (fonts
> > and variants) to Emma's discretion and adopt it by lazy consensus.
> >
> > Totally subjective, but when it was pointed out to me (that the word
> > "Avro" only shows serifs on the "r"), I really noticed it... but that
> > rapidly passed.  I really have no opinion and I have more confidence
> > in a designer's eye than my own!
> >
> > All my best, Ryan
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 5:55 PM Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thank you Ryan for your guidance throughout my first contribution,
> Oscar
> > > for your help driving the vote, and everyone for your kind words,
> > feedback,
> > > and votes! :D
> > > This was so much fun to work on and I'm so grateful for the opportunity
> > to
> > > help the community in this regard :)
> > >
> > > Now for the next steps! If we're unsure about the current font chosen
> (PT
> > > Mono Bold) I have 3 other fonts I shortlisted when creating the initial
> > > drafts of the designs that we can compare to the existing one. If we'd
> > like
> > > to go this route, I can upload the alternative font versions to the
> > > AVRO-3554 JIRA issue and we can do one more quick vote for the final
> > font.
> > > However, if we're happy with the current font chosen for the logo we
> can
> > > jump right into creating the versions to upload to the Apache Project
> > Logos
> > > website!
> > >
> > > On the Apache Project Logos page, it looks like it's the convention to
> > > upload two PNG versions (a 1200 x ___ size, and a 3600 x ___ size), a
> PDF
> > > version, and an SVG version, so I'll start by creating all those
> versions
> > > of V9.2 logo design. It also looks like a lot of projects upload a
> square
> > > version of the design (the icon on top of the logo text; ex. Version 2
> of
> > > Apache Airflow), so I can create a square layout for the logo to go
> along
> > > with the banner version (icon beside the logo text) that we already
> have.
> > > Some projects also upload a version that can be used on dark
> backgrounds
> > > (ex. Version 2 of Apache Calcite) so if we'd also like to do that as
> well
> > > I'm more than happy to make some dark mode versions too! Finally, some
> > > projects upload their logo icons on their own without any text (ex.
> > Version
> > > 3 of Apache Airflow), and I can also do that if we'd like.
> > >
> > > Please let me know your thoughts, in the meantime, I'll start getting
> to
> > > work on either creating the alternate font options for another vote or
> > the
> > > final format versions :D
> > >
> > > All my best,
> > > Emma
> > >
> > > On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 10:55 AM Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks so much Emma for the contribution and Oscar for driving the
> > > > vote!  :D  This has been a fun thing to do -- I would love to see the
> > > > pigeon immortalized someplace!  Maybe on a website page for credits
> > > > and contributors?
> > > >
> > > > Emma, what do you think we need to finalize the logo?  I'm starting a
> > > > list of places that need to be updated, starting at
> > > > https://www.apache.org/logos/ !
> > > >
> > > > All my best, Ryan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 10:04 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind
> > > > <os...@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > >
> > > > > The vote should have ended yesterday, but somehow we managed to
> more
> > than
> > > > > double the number of votes and still get the same outcome. The
> > current
> > > > > tally (all votes) is 5 votes for each option.
> > > > >
> > > > > So we're (again) at a tie.
> > > > >
> > > > > To force a conclusion, I'd like to resort to some arbitrary but
> > hopefully
> > > > > acceptable way to break the tie. By removing my own vote we'll get
> a
> > > > simple
> > > > > majority for one of the options (the same that failed to reach a +2
> > > > > majority the previous round).
> > > > >
> > > > > This then brings the final tally to:
> > > > >
> > > > >    - 5 votes for V9.2 (the plane)
> > > > >    - 4 votes for V3.1 (the pigeon)
> > > > >
> > > > > Which means that the winner is: *V9.2* (the plane)
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you all for voting!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > Oscar
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 at 13:51, Fokko Driesprong <fo...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for the explanation, Emma!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My vote still goes to 9.2
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Op ma 23 okt 2023 om 07:39 schreef Daniel Kulp <dkulp@apache.org
> >:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > v9.2 for me.   I definitely prefer the blue color and I really
> > don’t
> > > > get
> > > > > > > the pigeon.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Oct 23, 2023, at 5:04 AM, Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > TL;DR: if you haven't voted yet, please do so!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As Emma has shown that an upwards angle change for V9.2
> doesn't
> > > > work, I
> > > > > > > > think we should drop that version from the vote.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This means, with the (binding) votes so far, that the result
> > is a
> > > > tie:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >   - V9.2: 2 votes
> > > > > > > >   - V3.1: 2 votes
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Note: not everyone who voted the first round has voted again.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *So if you have an opinion on the Avro logo, please vote!*
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On a side note: when I count all votes, there is no tie
> > (there's an
> > > > > > extra
> > > > > > > > vote for v3.1). So if there are no additional votes, we can
> > still
> > > > have
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > result.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:42, Emma K <
> emma.a.kellam@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> Oops! I realized there is a typo in my last message. I wrote
> > that
> > > > V3.2
> > > > > > > is a
> > > > > > > >> finalist (the pigeon without the outlines) instead of V3.1
> as
> > a
> > > > > > finalist
> > > > > > > >> (the pigeon with the outlines), my mistake!
> > > > > > > >> The finalists are V9.2 (or V11.2 if you prefer upwards) and
> > V3.1
> > > > > > > >> Apologies for the confusion!
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> All the best,
> > > > > > > >> Emma
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 9:46 AM Niels Basjes <
> Niels@basjes.nl
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>> Hi,
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> I had a good look at the logos and the pigeon version (v3.2
> > > > without
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >>> line around it) has my preference.
> > > > > > > >>> That said I'm totally fine if we use the v9.2 which also
> > looks
> > > > > > awesome.
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> Niels
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 2:37 PM Ryan Skraba <
> ryan@skraba.com
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>> All of this is amazing -- it's really awesome for me to
> hear
> > > > your
> > > > > > > >>>> thought processes and arguments for the design.  I think
> > we're
> > > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > >>>> lucky to have this insight!  My apologies for the delay, I
> > just
> > > > got
> > > > > > > >>>> back from a vacation following the conference :D
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>> I wish I had better expressed the positive sentiment we
> got
> > for
> > > > the
> > > > > > > >>>> designs when I was showing them off in person. I passed
> > along
> > > > the
> > > > > > > >>>> suggestions because they were interesting, but definitely
> > NOT
> > > > > > > >>>> presented as mandatory. There will be ZERO hard feelings
> if
> > we
> > > > make
> > > > > > > >>>> our own decision!
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>> I didn't say it in the first mail, but my subjective
> > opinion is
> > > > to
> > > > > > > >>>> *disagree* with changing the airplane angle upwards.
> Paper
> > > > > > airplanes
> > > > > > > >>>> that travel well *coast* easily (like Avro data).
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>> I maintain my v9.2 vote!
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 6:59 AM David M. Carr <
> > > > david@carrclan.us>
> > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>> Great work on these, Emma.  My preference is for V3.2.
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 2:37 PM Emma K <
> > > > emma.a.kellam@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>> I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here <
> > > > > > > >>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to
> > visually
> > > > > > > >> capture
> > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>> suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>> I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle
> > of the
> > > > > > > >> plane
> > > > > > > >>>> logo
> > > > > > > >>>>>> is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem
> > is
> > > > that
> > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > >>>> blobby
> > > > > > > >>>>>> bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when
> > > > adjusted to
> > > > > > > >>>> this new
> > > > > > > >>>>>> angle and make the design less clean and even less
> > obvious as
> > > > to
> > > > > > > >> what
> > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>> icon is, which is why in the original upward design
> V11.2
> > I
> > > > didn't
> > > > > > > >>> add
> > > > > > > >>>> any
> > > > > > > >>>>>> underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more
> > abstract
> > > > > > > >>>> representation
> > > > > > > >>>>>> of the plane icon.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>> I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just
> rotate
> > the
> > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > >>>> design
> > > > > > > >>>>>> to an upward angle with no other changes. This also
> > doesn't
> > > > work,
> > > > > > > >>>> because
> > > > > > > >>>>>> the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation
> > and the
> > > > > > > >>>> underside of
> > > > > > > >>>>>> the plane isn't right for this angle.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>> To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that
> > it
> > > > was
> > > > > > > >> valid
> > > > > > > >>>> and
> > > > > > > >>>>>> made sense that the marketing booth preferred the
> > upward-angle
> > > > > > > >>> design.
> > > > > > > >>>> When
> > > > > > > >>>>>> I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward
> > angle
> > > > was
> > > > > > > >>> better
> > > > > > > >>>>>> than the other designs, what I meant to do was just
> > validate
> > > > that
> > > > > > > >> it
> > > > > > > >>>> was
> > > > > > > >>>>>> okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's
> > hard
> > > > about
> > > > > > > >>>> design
> > > > > > > >>>>>> is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their
> > own
> > > > unique
> > > > > > > >>>> opinions
> > > > > > > >>>>>> on what looks better.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>> But again, I want to make sure that the logo is
> something
> > > > that the
> > > > > > > >>>> *Avro
> > > > > > > >>>>>> community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the
> > passing
> > > > > > > >>>> subjective
> > > > > > > >>>>>> preference of the marketing and publicity office at the
> > > > Community
> > > > > > > >>> Over
> > > > > > > >>>> Code
> > > > > > > >>>>>> conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which
> is
> > > > taking
> > > > > > > >> away
> > > > > > > >>>> from
> > > > > > > >>>>>> the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I
> would
> > > > just
> > > > > > > >> like
> > > > > > > >>> to
> > > > > > > >>>>>> encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in
> > the
> > > > final
> > > > > > > >>> vote,
> > > > > > > >>>>>> because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen
> will
> > > > > > > >> ultimately
> > > > > > > >>>> be
> > > > > > > >>>>>> what represents Avro the project, and you as the
> > > > contributors, not
> > > > > > > >>> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>> marketing and publicity office.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>> To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional
> > > > revisions
> > > > > > > >> of
> > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>> icons themselves in the future, so the options for the
> > logos
> > > > will
> > > > > > > >> be
> > > > > > > >>>> V9.2
> > > > > > > >>>>>> (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will
> > be
> > > > > > > >> uploading
> > > > > > > >>>> some
> > > > > > > >>>>>> revisions for the font used in the final design (once a
> > > > winner is
> > > > > > > >>>> chosen)
> > > > > > > >>>>>> to see if there is a better alternative on that front,
> but
> > > > > > > >> otherwise,
> > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>> icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks
> again
> > > > for all
> > > > > > > >>> your
> > > > > > > >>>>>> patience and feedback throughout the process!
> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>> All my best,
> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>> Emma
> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <
> > > > > > fokko@apache.org
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Great work again!
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Based on what I was taught when studying graphic
> design,
> > > > icons
> > > > > > > >>> for
> > > > > > > >>>>>> logos
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> should be memorable and have the simplest possible
> > design to
> > > > > > > >>>> convey the
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> desired image
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes
> a
> > lot
> > > > of
> > > > > > > >>>> sense to
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> me.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides
> the
> > > > > > > >> underside:
> > > > > > > >>>> this
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> makes the plane look incomplete.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane
> > (which I
> > > > like
> > > > > > > >>> as
> > > > > > > >>>> a
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and
> > the
> > > > paper
> > > > > > > >>>> plane
> > > > > > > >>>>>> are
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while
> > the
> > > > pigeon
> > > > > > > >>>> might
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> bring up IP over Avian Carriers
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers
> >.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Fokko
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van
> > Holthe -
> > > > > > > >> Kind <
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> opwvhk@apache.org>:
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as
> > better
> > > > > > > >> than
> > > > > > > >>>> V11.2,
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> despite being angled downward. This is, I believe,
> > because
> > > > the
> > > > > > > >>>> angle of
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look
> > > > > > > >> incomplete.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1
> > > > otherwise.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <
> > > > emma.a.kellam@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Thank you for your kind words throughout the process
> > and
> > > > > > > >> vote!
> > > > > > > >>> I
> > > > > > > >>>>>> wanted
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally
> > > > > > > >> influenced
> > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> initial
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> vote in any way!
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the
> > > > > > > >>> suggestions
> > > > > > > >>>>>> Ryan
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> received at the Community Over Code conference and
> > Oscar's
> > > > > > > >>>> suggestion
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> of
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> another possible upwards variant.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also
> > ties
> > > > > > > >> into
> > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> first
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and
> > > > > > > >> publicity
> > > > > > > >>>>>> office.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> If
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition
> > that
> > > > the
> > > > > > > >>>> upward
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> design
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I
> > think
> > > > > > > >>> that's
> > > > > > > >>>>>> valid
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> and
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> makes sense! If this is the case, then I would
> suggest
> > we
> > > > use
> > > > > > > >>> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>> 11.2
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make
> some
> > > > slight
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> adjustments
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add
> that
> > I
> > > > am a
> > > > > > > >>>> little
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> more
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2
> > design
> > > > did
> > > > > > > >>> not
> > > > > > > >>>>>> beat
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> out
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first
> round
> > of
> > > > > > > >>>> voting, and
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> ultimately I would like the final logo to be
> something
> > that
> > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> community
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> as a whole loves and agrees upon!
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT
> > Mono
> > > > > > > >> font
> > > > > > > >>>>>> being a
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the
> only
> > > > > > > >> serifed
> > > > > > > >>>>>> letter.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> This is something I didn't notice before but they are
> > > > right!
> > > > > > > >> I
> > > > > > > >>>>>> actually
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> already have five other fonts on the backburner that
> I
> > > > tried
> > > > > > > >>>> when I
> > > > > > > >>>>>> was
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> drafting the original design versions but I
> personally
> > > > liked
> > > > > > > >>> the
> > > > > > > >>>> PT
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Mono
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> font the best so gave that as the only option (which
> in
> > > > > > > >>> hindsight
> > > > > > > >>>>>> might
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> not
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> have been the best choice). What I can do is once the
> > final
> > > > > > > >>> icon
> > > > > > > >>>> is
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> chosen
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can
> > draft
> > > > > > > >> up a
> > > > > > > >>>> few
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> more
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> versions with the alternate font choices and we can
> > decide
> > > > if
> > > > > > > >>>> one of
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> other fonts will work better in the long run.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the
> > marketing
> > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> publicity
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark
> > blue, I
> > > > > > > >> have
> > > > > > > >>>> to
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area
> of
> > > > dark
> > > > > > > >>>> blue in
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it
> > would
> > > > be
> > > > > > > >>>>>> difficult
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it
> > would
> > > > be
> > > > > > > >>>>>> impossible
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> parse. Based on what I was taught when studying
> graphic
> > > > > > > >> design,
> > > > > > > >>>> icons
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> for
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> logos should be memorable and have the simplest
> > possible
> > > > > > > >> design
> > > > > > > >>>> to
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> convey
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> the desired image. As an example of this, think of
> > Apple's
> > > > > > > >>> logo,
> > > > > > > >>>>>> which
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> is a
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would
> > posit
> > > > > > > >> that
> > > > > > > >>> if
> > > > > > > >>>>>> Apple
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as
> > > > > > > >>> effective.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more
> > adjustments to
> > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > >>>> fonts
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> and
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so
> > excited
> > > > to
> > > > > > > >>> see
> > > > > > > >>>>>> which
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> design will be the final winner in the end! :D
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> All my best,
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Emma
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van
> > Holthe -
> > > > > > > >>> Kind <
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast
> > within
> > > > 6
> > > > > > > >>>> hours),
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> and
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> no
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and
> > V3.1.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> These are the votes:
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V9.2: 3 votes
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V10.2: 1 vote
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V11.2: 0 votes
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as
> the
> > > > > > > >> V3.1
> > > > > > > >>>>>> variant
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> was
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   part of the vote)
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> What's next: one week to vote by simple majority
> > between
> > > > > > > >> V9.2
> > > > > > > >>>> and
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> V3.1.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more
> > than
> > > > > > > >>>> enough)
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also
> > create
> > > > a
> > > > > > > >>>> good
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> version
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> flying
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> slightly upward
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> <
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >
> https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> instead
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to
> > her
> > > > > > > >> good
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> judgement
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> determine if that's really an improvement.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the
> > pigeon
> > > > > > > >>> V3.1?
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <
> > ryan@skraba.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or
> > vote,
> > > > > > > >> but
> > > > > > > >>>> I had
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity
> > office
> > > > > > > >>>> hours
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> during
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> community over Code conference. They had some
> pretty
> > > > > > > >>> specific
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> suggestions
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone
> > but I
> > > > > > > >>> just
> > > > > > > >>>> want
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> capture them here!
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word
> because
> > the
> > > > > > > >> r
> > > > > > > >>>> has
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> serifs
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> and
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the others don't.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have
> > the
> > > > > > > >>> word
> > > > > > > >>>> Avro
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> in
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> plane's dark blue!
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> It was a neat conversation and they said some
> really
> > nice
> > > > > > > >>>> things
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> about
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> initiative!
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about
> any
> > > > > > > >>>> adjustments
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> after
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these
> > current
> > > > > > > >>>> logos
> > > > > > > >>>>>> and
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> leaving
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> any changes to Emma's discretion!
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> All my bets Ryan
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <
> > blue@tabular.io>
> > > > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> My vote is for 10.2.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van
> > Holthe
> > > > > > > >> -
> > > > > > > >>>> Kind <
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon.
> It
> > > > > > > >>> looks
> > > > > > > >>>>>> good,
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> and
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> it's
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> very distinctive.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And it's completely different from any send icon,
> > so
> > > > > > > >> it
> > > > > > > >>>>>> cannot
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> be
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> conflated
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> with a message protocol icon.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> My vote is for V3.1
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > opwvhk@apache.org
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <
> > > > > > > >>>> ryan@skraba.com
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> :
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to
> go
> > > > > > > >>> with
> > > > > > > >>>>>> V9.2
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> -- I
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> really like the pigeon too, but I think the
> paper
> > > > > > > >>> plane
> > > > > > > >>>>>> fits
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> too
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nicely to pass up!
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for
> calling
> > > > > > > >>> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>> vote.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> I
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> think
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> iemejia@gmail.com
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> V9.2
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like Fokko I was also not so close to the
> subject
> > > > > > > >>>> and it
> > > > > > > >>>>>> is
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> great
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see the final selection.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma
> > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> everyone!
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ismaël
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko
> Driesprong <
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> fokko@apache.org>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Oscar,
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active
> > > > > > > >> in
> > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> conversation
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around the new logo, but I followed it from
> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>> sideline.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> The
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> new
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> logos are
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the pigeon, especially the one
> > > > > > > >> with
> > > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> envelope!
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> My
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> vote
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the
> alternative
> > > > > > > >>>> version
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> :)
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra
> > > > > > > >>> van
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Holthe -
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Kind
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> <
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The past month, there has been new progress
> > > > > > > >> on
> > > > > > > >>>> our
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> search
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> for a
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> new
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo (
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AVRO-3554 <
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ).
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks to
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given,
> > > > > > > >>> we
> > > > > > > >>>> can
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> now
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> proceed
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> vote on
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the matter.
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These are the finalists to choose from (if
> > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > >>>> image
> > > > > > > >>>>>> is
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> unreadable,
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> links to the comment where the finalists are
> > > > > > > >>>>>>> announced):
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts
> > > > > > > >>> longer
> > > > > > > >>>>>> than a
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> typical
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> release,
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - to avoid confusion, please vote with the
> > > > > > > >>>> V...
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> ifentifier:
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> V9.2,
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> V10.2,
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   V11.2, V3.1
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - the winner is the logo with at least two
> > > > > > > >>> (2)
> > > > > > > >>>>>> votes
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> more
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> than
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   runner-up
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote
> > > > > > > >> by
> > > > > > > >>>>>> simple
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> majority
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> between the
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   top picks
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please vote for your preference!
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > > > >>>> opwvhk@apache.org
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Blue
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Tabular
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > > > >> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>> --
> > > > > > > >>>>> David M. Carr
> > > > > > > >>>>> david@carrclan.us
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> --
> > > > > > > >>> Best regards / Met vriendelijke groeten,
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> Niels Basjes
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Daniel Kulp
> > > > > > > dkulp@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > Qlik - https://qlik.com <https://qlik.com/>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > >
> >
>

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>]

Hi all,

On a related note, I'd also like to use the final logo as plugin icon and
as (part of the) file icon in the JetBrains Pugin I maintain. Are there any
objections to that?


Kind regards,
Oscar

-- 
Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>


On Fr 27 oct 2023 18:17, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:

> Hey -- oops, this was stuck in "drafts".
>
> I did a bit of investigation!:
>
> 1) it looks like we ONLY need to submit the svg, and the others
> (png/pdf) will be autocreated.  Here's what other projects do:
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/
>
> Note that some of the projects have many variants -- Cassandra has a
> lot.  (vertical/horizontal, dark/light/black&white)  I don't think we
> need every combination, and we can add future ones as desired.
>
> 2) How does this sound: I suggest we leave any final changes (fonts
> and variants) to Emma's discretion and adopt it by lazy consensus.
>
> Totally subjective, but when it was pointed out to me (that the word
> "Avro" only shows serifs on the "r"), I really noticed it... but that
> rapidly passed.  I really have no opinion and I have more confidence
> in a designer's eye than my own!
>
> All my best, Ryan
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 5:55 PM Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you Ryan for your guidance throughout my first contribution, Oscar
> > for your help driving the vote, and everyone for your kind words,
> feedback,
> > and votes! :D
> > This was so much fun to work on and I'm so grateful for the opportunity
> to
> > help the community in this regard :)
> >
> > Now for the next steps! If we're unsure about the current font chosen (PT
> > Mono Bold) I have 3 other fonts I shortlisted when creating the initial
> > drafts of the designs that we can compare to the existing one. If we'd
> like
> > to go this route, I can upload the alternative font versions to the
> > AVRO-3554 JIRA issue and we can do one more quick vote for the final
> font.
> > However, if we're happy with the current font chosen for the logo we can
> > jump right into creating the versions to upload to the Apache Project
> Logos
> > website!
> >
> > On the Apache Project Logos page, it looks like it's the convention to
> > upload two PNG versions (a 1200 x ___ size, and a 3600 x ___ size), a PDF
> > version, and an SVG version, so I'll start by creating all those versions
> > of V9.2 logo design. It also looks like a lot of projects upload a square
> > version of the design (the icon on top of the logo text; ex. Version 2 of
> > Apache Airflow), so I can create a square layout for the logo to go along
> > with the banner version (icon beside the logo text) that we already have.
> > Some projects also upload a version that can be used on dark backgrounds
> > (ex. Version 2 of Apache Calcite) so if we'd also like to do that as well
> > I'm more than happy to make some dark mode versions too! Finally, some
> > projects upload their logo icons on their own without any text (ex.
> Version
> > 3 of Apache Airflow), and I can also do that if we'd like.
> >
> > Please let me know your thoughts, in the meantime, I'll start getting to
> > work on either creating the alternate font options for another vote or
> the
> > final format versions :D
> >
> > All my best,
> > Emma
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 10:55 AM Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks so much Emma for the contribution and Oscar for driving the
> > > vote!  :D  This has been a fun thing to do -- I would love to see the
> > > pigeon immortalized someplace!  Maybe on a website page for credits
> > > and contributors?
> > >
> > > Emma, what do you think we need to finalize the logo?  I'm starting a
> > > list of places that need to be updated, starting at
> > > https://www.apache.org/logos/ !
> > >
> > > All my best, Ryan
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 10:04 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind
> > > <os...@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello everyone,
> > > >
> > > > The vote should have ended yesterday, but somehow we managed to more
> than
> > > > double the number of votes and still get the same outcome. The
> current
> > > > tally (all votes) is 5 votes for each option.
> > > >
> > > > So we're (again) at a tie.
> > > >
> > > > To force a conclusion, I'd like to resort to some arbitrary but
> hopefully
> > > > acceptable way to break the tie. By removing my own vote we'll get a
> > > simple
> > > > majority for one of the options (the same that failed to reach a +2
> > > > majority the previous round).
> > > >
> > > > This then brings the final tally to:
> > > >
> > > >    - 5 votes for V9.2 (the plane)
> > > >    - 4 votes for V3.1 (the pigeon)
> > > >
> > > > Which means that the winner is: *V9.2* (the plane)
> > > >
> > > > Thank you all for voting!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > > Oscar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 at 13:51, Fokko Driesprong <fo...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the explanation, Emma!
> > > > >
> > > > > My vote still goes to 9.2
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers, Fokko
> > > > >
> > > > > Op ma 23 okt 2023 om 07:39 schreef Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > v9.2 for me.   I definitely prefer the blue color and I really
> don’t
> > > get
> > > > > > the pigeon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dan
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Oct 23, 2023, at 5:04 AM, Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > TL;DR: if you haven't voted yet, please do so!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As Emma has shown that an upwards angle change for V9.2 doesn't
> > > work, I
> > > > > > > think we should drop that version from the vote.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This means, with the (binding) votes so far, that the result
> is a
> > > tie:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >   - V9.2: 2 votes
> > > > > > >   - V3.1: 2 votes
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Note: not everyone who voted the first round has voted again.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *So if you have an opinion on the Avro logo, please vote!*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On a side note: when I count all votes, there is no tie
> (there's an
> > > > > extra
> > > > > > > vote for v3.1). So if there are no additional votes, we can
> still
> > > have
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > result.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:42, Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> Oops! I realized there is a typo in my last message. I wrote
> that
> > > V3.2
> > > > > > is a
> > > > > > >> finalist (the pigeon without the outlines) instead of V3.1 as
> a
> > > > > finalist
> > > > > > >> (the pigeon with the outlines), my mistake!
> > > > > > >> The finalists are V9.2 (or V11.2 if you prefer upwards) and
> V3.1
> > > > > > >> Apologies for the confusion!
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> All the best,
> > > > > > >> Emma
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 9:46 AM Niels Basjes <Niels@basjes.nl
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>> Hi,
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> I had a good look at the logos and the pigeon version (v3.2
> > > without
> > > > > the
> > > > > > >>> line around it) has my preference.
> > > > > > >>> That said I'm totally fine if we use the v9.2 which also
> looks
> > > > > awesome.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Niels
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 2:37 PM Ryan Skraba <ryan@skraba.com
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>> All of this is amazing -- it's really awesome for me to hear
> > > your
> > > > > > >>>> thought processes and arguments for the design.  I think
> we're
> > > > > pretty
> > > > > > >>>> lucky to have this insight!  My apologies for the delay, I
> just
> > > got
> > > > > > >>>> back from a vacation following the conference :D
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> I wish I had better expressed the positive sentiment we got
> for
> > > the
> > > > > > >>>> designs when I was showing them off in person. I passed
> along
> > > the
> > > > > > >>>> suggestions because they were interesting, but definitely
> NOT
> > > > > > >>>> presented as mandatory. There will be ZERO hard feelings if
> we
> > > make
> > > > > > >>>> our own decision!
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> I didn't say it in the first mail, but my subjective
> opinion is
> > > to
> > > > > > >>>> *disagree* with changing the airplane angle upwards.  Paper
> > > > > airplanes
> > > > > > >>>> that travel well *coast* easily (like Avro data).
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> I maintain my v9.2 vote!
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 6:59 AM David M. Carr <
> > > david@carrclan.us>
> > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> Great work on these, Emma.  My preference is for V3.2.
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 2:37 PM Emma K <
> > > emma.a.kellam@gmail.com>
> > > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here <
> > > > > > >>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to
> visually
> > > > > > >> capture
> > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>> suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle
> of the
> > > > > > >> plane
> > > > > > >>>> logo
> > > > > > >>>>>> is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem
> is
> > > that
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >>>> blobby
> > > > > > >>>>>> bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when
> > > adjusted to
> > > > > > >>>> this new
> > > > > > >>>>>> angle and make the design less clean and even less
> obvious as
> > > to
> > > > > > >> what
> > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>> icon is, which is why in the original upward design V11.2
> I
> > > didn't
> > > > > > >>> add
> > > > > > >>>> any
> > > > > > >>>>>> underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more
> abstract
> > > > > > >>>> representation
> > > > > > >>>>>> of the plane icon.
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just rotate
> the
> > > V9.2
> > > > > > >>>> design
> > > > > > >>>>>> to an upward angle with no other changes. This also
> doesn't
> > > work,
> > > > > > >>>> because
> > > > > > >>>>>> the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation
> and the
> > > > > > >>>> underside of
> > > > > > >>>>>> the plane isn't right for this angle.
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that
> it
> > > was
> > > > > > >> valid
> > > > > > >>>> and
> > > > > > >>>>>> made sense that the marketing booth preferred the
> upward-angle
> > > > > > >>> design.
> > > > > > >>>> When
> > > > > > >>>>>> I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward
> angle
> > > was
> > > > > > >>> better
> > > > > > >>>>>> than the other designs, what I meant to do was just
> validate
> > > that
> > > > > > >> it
> > > > > > >>>> was
> > > > > > >>>>>> okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's
> hard
> > > about
> > > > > > >>>> design
> > > > > > >>>>>> is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their
> own
> > > unique
> > > > > > >>>> opinions
> > > > > > >>>>>> on what looks better.
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> But again, I want to make sure that the logo is something
> > > that the
> > > > > > >>>> *Avro
> > > > > > >>>>>> community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the
> passing
> > > > > > >>>> subjective
> > > > > > >>>>>> preference of the marketing and publicity office at the
> > > Community
> > > > > > >>> Over
> > > > > > >>>> Code
> > > > > > >>>>>> conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which is
> > > taking
> > > > > > >> away
> > > > > > >>>> from
> > > > > > >>>>>> the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I would
> > > just
> > > > > > >> like
> > > > > > >>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>> encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in
> the
> > > final
> > > > > > >>> vote,
> > > > > > >>>>>> because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen will
> > > > > > >> ultimately
> > > > > > >>>> be
> > > > > > >>>>>> what represents Avro the project, and you as the
> > > contributors, not
> > > > > > >>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>> marketing and publicity office.
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional
> > > revisions
> > > > > > >> of
> > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>> icons themselves in the future, so the options for the
> logos
> > > will
> > > > > > >> be
> > > > > > >>>> V9.2
> > > > > > >>>>>> (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will
> be
> > > > > > >> uploading
> > > > > > >>>> some
> > > > > > >>>>>> revisions for the font used in the final design (once a
> > > winner is
> > > > > > >>>> chosen)
> > > > > > >>>>>> to see if there is a better alternative on that front, but
> > > > > > >> otherwise,
> > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>> icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks again
> > > for all
> > > > > > >>> your
> > > > > > >>>>>> patience and feedback throughout the process!
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> All my best,
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> Emma
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <
> > > > > fokko@apache.org
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>> Great work again!
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design,
> > > icons
> > > > > > >>> for
> > > > > > >>>>>> logos
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> should be memorable and have the simplest possible
> design to
> > > > > > >>>> convey the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> desired image
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>> Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes a
> lot
> > > of
> > > > > > >>>> sense to
> > > > > > >>>>>>> me.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>> This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides the
> > > > > > >> underside:
> > > > > > >>>> this
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> makes the plane look incomplete.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>> I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane
> (which I
> > > like
> > > > > > >>> as
> > > > > > >>>> a
> > > > > > >>>>>>> reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and
> the
> > > paper
> > > > > > >>>> plane
> > > > > > >>>>>> are
> > > > > > >>>>>>> awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while
> the
> > > pigeon
> > > > > > >>>> might
> > > > > > >>>>>>> bring up IP over Avian Carriers
> > > > > > >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>> I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > > >>>>>>> Fokko
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>> Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van
> Holthe -
> > > > > > >> Kind <
> > > > > > >>>>>>> opwvhk@apache.org>:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as
> better
> > > > > > >> than
> > > > > > >>>> V11.2,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> despite being angled downward. This is, I believe,
> because
> > > the
> > > > > > >>>> angle of
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look
> > > > > > >> incomplete.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1
> > > otherwise.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <
> > > emma.a.kellam@gmail.com>
> > > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Thank you for your kind words throughout the process
> and
> > > > > > >> vote!
> > > > > > >>> I
> > > > > > >>>>>> wanted
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally
> > > > > > >> influenced
> > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> initial
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> vote in any way!
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the
> > > > > > >>> suggestions
> > > > > > >>>>>> Ryan
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> received at the Community Over Code conference and
> Oscar's
> > > > > > >>>> suggestion
> > > > > > >>>>>>> of
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> another possible upwards variant.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also
> ties
> > > > > > >> into
> > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>> first
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and
> > > > > > >> publicity
> > > > > > >>>>>> office.
> > > > > > >>>>>>> If
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition
> that
> > > the
> > > > > > >>>> upward
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> design
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I
> think
> > > > > > >>> that's
> > > > > > >>>>>> valid
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> and
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest
> we
> > > use
> > > > > > >>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>> 11.2
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some
> > > slight
> > > > > > >>>>>>> adjustments
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that
> I
> > > am a
> > > > > > >>>> little
> > > > > > >>>>>>> more
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2
> design
> > > did
> > > > > > >>> not
> > > > > > >>>>>> beat
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> out
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round
> of
> > > > > > >>>> voting, and
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> ultimately I would like the final logo to be something
> that
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>> community
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> as a whole loves and agrees upon!
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT
> Mono
> > > > > > >> font
> > > > > > >>>>>> being a
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only
> > > > > > >> serifed
> > > > > > >>>>>> letter.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> This is something I didn't notice before but they are
> > > right!
> > > > > > >> I
> > > > > > >>>>>> actually
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> already have five other fonts on the backburner that I
> > > tried
> > > > > > >>>> when I
> > > > > > >>>>>> was
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> drafting the original design versions but I personally
> > > liked
> > > > > > >>> the
> > > > > > >>>> PT
> > > > > > >>>>>>> Mono
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> font the best so gave that as the only option (which in
> > > > > > >>> hindsight
> > > > > > >>>>>> might
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> not
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> have been the best choice). What I can do is once the
> final
> > > > > > >>> icon
> > > > > > >>>> is
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> chosen
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can
> draft
> > > > > > >> up a
> > > > > > >>>> few
> > > > > > >>>>>>> more
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> versions with the alternate font choices and we can
> decide
> > > if
> > > > > > >>>> one of
> > > > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> other fonts will work better in the long run.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the
> marketing
> > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > >>>>>>> publicity
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark
> blue, I
> > > > > > >> have
> > > > > > >>>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of
> > > dark
> > > > > > >>>> blue in
> > > > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it
> would
> > > be
> > > > > > >>>>>> difficult
> > > > > > >>>>>>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it
> would
> > > be
> > > > > > >>>>>> impossible
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic
> > > > > > >> design,
> > > > > > >>>> icons
> > > > > > >>>>>>> for
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> logos should be memorable and have the simplest
> possible
> > > > > > >> design
> > > > > > >>>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>>> convey
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> the desired image. As an example of this, think of
> Apple's
> > > > > > >>> logo,
> > > > > > >>>>>> which
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> is a
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would
> posit
> > > > > > >> that
> > > > > > >>> if
> > > > > > >>>>>> Apple
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as
> > > > > > >>> effective.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more
> adjustments to
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >>>> fonts
> > > > > > >>>>>>> and
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so
> excited
> > > to
> > > > > > >>> see
> > > > > > >>>>>> which
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> design will be the final winner in the end! :D
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> All my best,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Emma
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van
> Holthe -
> > > > > > >>> Kind <
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast
> within
> > > 6
> > > > > > >>>> hours),
> > > > > > >>>>>>> and
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> no
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and
> V3.1.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> These are the votes:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V9.2: 3 votes
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V10.2: 1 vote
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V11.2: 0 votes
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the
> > > > > > >> V3.1
> > > > > > >>>>>> variant
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> was
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   part of the vote)
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> What's next: one week to vote by simple majority
> between
> > > > > > >> V9.2
> > > > > > >>>> and
> > > > > > >>>>>>> V3.1.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more
> than
> > > > > > >>>> enough)
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also
> create
> > > a
> > > > > > >>>> good
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> version
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> flying
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> slightly upward
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> <
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> instead
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to
> her
> > > > > > >> good
> > > > > > >>>>>>> judgement
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> determine if that's really an improvement.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the
> pigeon
> > > > > > >>> V3.1?
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <
> ryan@skraba.com
> > > >
> > > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or
> vote,
> > > > > > >> but
> > > > > > >>>> I had
> > > > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity
> office
> > > > > > >>>> hours
> > > > > > >>>>>>> during
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> community over Code conference. They had some pretty
> > > > > > >>> specific
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> suggestions
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone
> but I
> > > > > > >>> just
> > > > > > >>>> want
> > > > > > >>>>>>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> capture them here!
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because
> the
> > > > > > >> r
> > > > > > >>>> has
> > > > > > >>>>>>> serifs
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> and
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the others don't.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have
> the
> > > > > > >>> word
> > > > > > >>>> Avro
> > > > > > >>>>>>> in
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> plane's dark blue!
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> It was a neat conversation and they said some really
> nice
> > > > > > >>>> things
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> about
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> initiative!
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any
> > > > > > >>>> adjustments
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> after
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these
> current
> > > > > > >>>> logos
> > > > > > >>>>>> and
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> leaving
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> any changes to Emma's discretion!
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> All my bets Ryan
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <
> blue@tabular.io>
> > > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> My vote is for 10.2.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van
> Holthe
> > > > > > >> -
> > > > > > >>>> Kind <
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It
> > > > > > >>> looks
> > > > > > >>>>>> good,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> and
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> it's
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> very distinctive.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And it's completely different from any send icon,
> so
> > > > > > >> it
> > > > > > >>>>>> cannot
> > > > > > >>>>>>> be
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> conflated
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> with a message protocol icon.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> My vote is for V3.1
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> opwvhk@apache.org
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <
> > > > > > >>>> ryan@skraba.com
> > > > > > >>>>>>> :
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go
> > > > > > >>> with
> > > > > > >>>>>> V9.2
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> -- I
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper
> > > > > > >>> plane
> > > > > > >>>>>> fits
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> too
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nicely to pass up!
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling
> > > > > > >>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>> vote.
> > > > > > >>>>>>> I
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> think
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <
> > > > > > >>>>>>> iemejia@gmail.com
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> V9.2
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject
> > > > > > >>>> and it
> > > > > > >>>>>> is
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> great
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see the final selection.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma
> > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > >>>>>>> everyone!
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ismaël
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong <
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> fokko@apache.org>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Oscar,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active
> > > > > > >> in
> > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> conversation
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around the new logo, but I followed it from the
> > > > > > >>>>>> sideline.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> The
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> new
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> logos are
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the pigeon, especially the one
> > > > > > >> with
> > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> envelope!
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> My
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> vote
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative
> > > > > > >>>> version
> > > > > > >>>>>>> :)
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra
> > > > > > >>> van
> > > > > > >>>>>>> Holthe -
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Kind
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> <
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The past month, there has been new progress
> > > > > > >> on
> > > > > > >>>> our
> > > > > > >>>>>>> search
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> for a
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> new
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo (
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AVRO-3554 <
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ).
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given,
> > > > > > >>> we
> > > > > > >>>> can
> > > > > > >>>>>>> now
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> proceed
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> vote on
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the matter.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These are the finalists to choose from (if
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >>>> image
> > > > > > >>>>>> is
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> unreadable,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> links to the comment where the finalists are
> > > > > > >>>>>>> announced):
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts
> > > > > > >>> longer
> > > > > > >>>>>> than a
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> typical
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> release,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - to avoid confusion, please vote with the
> > > > > > >>>> V...
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> ifentifier:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> V9.2,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> V10.2,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   V11.2, V3.1
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - the winner is the logo with at least two
> > > > > > >>> (2)
> > > > > > >>>>>> votes
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> more
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> than
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   runner-up
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote
> > > > > > >> by
> > > > > > >>>>>> simple
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> majority
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> between the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   top picks
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please vote for your preference!
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > > >>>> opwvhk@apache.org
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Blue
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Tabular
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > > >> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> --
> > > > > > >>>>> David M. Carr
> > > > > > >>>>> david@carrclan.us
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> --
> > > > > > >>> Best regards / Met vriendelijke groeten,
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Niels Basjes
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Daniel Kulp
> > > > > > dkulp@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
> > > > > > Qlik - https://qlik.com <https://qlik.com/>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > >
>

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>]

Hey -- oops, this was stuck in "drafts".

I did a bit of investigation!:

1) it looks like we ONLY need to submit the svg, and the others
(png/pdf) will be autocreated.  Here's what other projects do:
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/project-logos/originals/

Note that some of the projects have many variants -- Cassandra has a
lot.  (vertical/horizontal, dark/light/black&white)  I don't think we
need every combination, and we can add future ones as desired.

2) How does this sound: I suggest we leave any final changes (fonts
and variants) to Emma's discretion and adopt it by lazy consensus.

Totally subjective, but when it was pointed out to me (that the word
"Avro" only shows serifs on the "r"), I really noticed it... but that
rapidly passed.  I really have no opinion and I have more confidence
in a designer's eye than my own!

All my best, Ryan



On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 5:55 PM Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thank you Ryan for your guidance throughout my first contribution, Oscar
> for your help driving the vote, and everyone for your kind words, feedback,
> and votes! :D
> This was so much fun to work on and I'm so grateful for the opportunity to
> help the community in this regard :)
>
> Now for the next steps! If we're unsure about the current font chosen (PT
> Mono Bold) I have 3 other fonts I shortlisted when creating the initial
> drafts of the designs that we can compare to the existing one. If we'd like
> to go this route, I can upload the alternative font versions to the
> AVRO-3554 JIRA issue and we can do one more quick vote for the final font.
> However, if we're happy with the current font chosen for the logo we can
> jump right into creating the versions to upload to the Apache Project Logos
> website!
>
> On the Apache Project Logos page, it looks like it's the convention to
> upload two PNG versions (a 1200 x ___ size, and a 3600 x ___ size), a PDF
> version, and an SVG version, so I'll start by creating all those versions
> of V9.2 logo design. It also looks like a lot of projects upload a square
> version of the design (the icon on top of the logo text; ex. Version 2 of
> Apache Airflow), so I can create a square layout for the logo to go along
> with the banner version (icon beside the logo text) that we already have.
> Some projects also upload a version that can be used on dark backgrounds
> (ex. Version 2 of Apache Calcite) so if we'd also like to do that as well
> I'm more than happy to make some dark mode versions too! Finally, some
> projects upload their logo icons on their own without any text (ex. Version
> 3 of Apache Airflow), and I can also do that if we'd like.
>
> Please let me know your thoughts, in the meantime, I'll start getting to
> work on either creating the alternate font options for another vote or the
> final format versions :D
>
> All my best,
> Emma
>
> On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 10:55 AM Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks so much Emma for the contribution and Oscar for driving the
> > vote!  :D  This has been a fun thing to do -- I would love to see the
> > pigeon immortalized someplace!  Maybe on a website page for credits
> > and contributors?
> >
> > Emma, what do you think we need to finalize the logo?  I'm starting a
> > list of places that need to be updated, starting at
> > https://www.apache.org/logos/ !
> >
> > All my best, Ryan
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 10:04 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind
> > <os...@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello everyone,
> > >
> > > The vote should have ended yesterday, but somehow we managed to more than
> > > double the number of votes and still get the same outcome. The current
> > > tally (all votes) is 5 votes for each option.
> > >
> > > So we're (again) at a tie.
> > >
> > > To force a conclusion, I'd like to resort to some arbitrary but hopefully
> > > acceptable way to break the tie. By removing my own vote we'll get a
> > simple
> > > majority for one of the options (the same that failed to reach a +2
> > > majority the previous round).
> > >
> > > This then brings the final tally to:
> > >
> > >    - 5 votes for V9.2 (the plane)
> > >    - 4 votes for V3.1 (the pigeon)
> > >
> > > Which means that the winner is: *V9.2* (the plane)
> > >
> > > Thank you all for voting!
> > >
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Oscar
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 at 13:51, Fokko Driesprong <fo...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks for the explanation, Emma!
> > > >
> > > > My vote still goes to 9.2
> > > >
> > > > Cheers, Fokko
> > > >
> > > > Op ma 23 okt 2023 om 07:39 schreef Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > v9.2 for me.   I definitely prefer the blue color and I really don’t
> > get
> > > > > the pigeon.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Oct 23, 2023, at 5:04 AM, Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > TL;DR: if you haven't voted yet, please do so!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As Emma has shown that an upwards angle change for V9.2 doesn't
> > work, I
> > > > > > think we should drop that version from the vote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This means, with the (binding) votes so far, that the result is a
> > tie:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   - V9.2: 2 votes
> > > > > >   - V3.1: 2 votes
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Note: not everyone who voted the first round has voted again.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *So if you have an opinion on the Avro logo, please vote!*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On a side note: when I count all votes, there is no tie (there's an
> > > > extra
> > > > > > vote for v3.1). So if there are no additional votes, we can still
> > have
> > > > a
> > > > > > result.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:42, Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Oops! I realized there is a typo in my last message. I wrote that
> > V3.2
> > > > > is a
> > > > > >> finalist (the pigeon without the outlines) instead of V3.1 as a
> > > > finalist
> > > > > >> (the pigeon with the outlines), my mistake!
> > > > > >> The finalists are V9.2 (or V11.2 if you prefer upwards) and V3.1
> > > > > >> Apologies for the confusion!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> All the best,
> > > > > >> Emma
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 9:46 AM Niels Basjes <Ni...@basjes.nl>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> Hi,
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I had a good look at the logos and the pigeon version (v3.2
> > without
> > > > the
> > > > > >>> line around it) has my preference.
> > > > > >>> That said I'm totally fine if we use the v9.2 which also looks
> > > > awesome.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Niels
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 2:37 PM Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> All of this is amazing -- it's really awesome for me to hear
> > your
> > > > > >>>> thought processes and arguments for the design.  I think we're
> > > > pretty
> > > > > >>>> lucky to have this insight!  My apologies for the delay, I just
> > got
> > > > > >>>> back from a vacation following the conference :D
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> I wish I had better expressed the positive sentiment we got for
> > the
> > > > > >>>> designs when I was showing them off in person. I passed along
> > the
> > > > > >>>> suggestions because they were interesting, but definitely NOT
> > > > > >>>> presented as mandatory. There will be ZERO hard feelings if we
> > make
> > > > > >>>> our own decision!
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> I didn't say it in the first mail, but my subjective opinion is
> > to
> > > > > >>>> *disagree* with changing the airplane angle upwards.  Paper
> > > > airplanes
> > > > > >>>> that travel well *coast* easily (like Avro data).
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> I maintain my v9.2 vote!
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 6:59 AM David M. Carr <
> > david@carrclan.us>
> > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Great work on these, Emma.  My preference is for V3.2.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 2:37 PM Emma K <
> > emma.a.kellam@gmail.com>
> > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here <
> > > > > >>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to visually
> > > > > >> capture
> > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>> suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle of the
> > > > > >> plane
> > > > > >>>> logo
> > > > > >>>>>> is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem is
> > that
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >>>> blobby
> > > > > >>>>>> bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when
> > adjusted to
> > > > > >>>> this new
> > > > > >>>>>> angle and make the design less clean and even less obvious as
> > to
> > > > > >> what
> > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>> icon is, which is why in the original upward design V11.2 I
> > didn't
> > > > > >>> add
> > > > > >>>> any
> > > > > >>>>>> underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more abstract
> > > > > >>>> representation
> > > > > >>>>>> of the plane icon.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just rotate the
> > V9.2
> > > > > >>>> design
> > > > > >>>>>> to an upward angle with no other changes. This also doesn't
> > work,
> > > > > >>>> because
> > > > > >>>>>> the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation and the
> > > > > >>>> underside of
> > > > > >>>>>> the plane isn't right for this angle.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that it
> > was
> > > > > >> valid
> > > > > >>>> and
> > > > > >>>>>> made sense that the marketing booth preferred the upward-angle
> > > > > >>> design.
> > > > > >>>> When
> > > > > >>>>>> I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward angle
> > was
> > > > > >>> better
> > > > > >>>>>> than the other designs, what I meant to do was just validate
> > that
> > > > > >> it
> > > > > >>>> was
> > > > > >>>>>> okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's hard
> > about
> > > > > >>>> design
> > > > > >>>>>> is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their own
> > unique
> > > > > >>>> opinions
> > > > > >>>>>> on what looks better.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> But again, I want to make sure that the logo is something
> > that the
> > > > > >>>> *Avro
> > > > > >>>>>> community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the passing
> > > > > >>>> subjective
> > > > > >>>>>> preference of the marketing and publicity office at the
> > Community
> > > > > >>> Over
> > > > > >>>> Code
> > > > > >>>>>> conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which is
> > taking
> > > > > >> away
> > > > > >>>> from
> > > > > >>>>>> the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I would
> > just
> > > > > >> like
> > > > > >>> to
> > > > > >>>>>> encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in the
> > final
> > > > > >>> vote,
> > > > > >>>>>> because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen will
> > > > > >> ultimately
> > > > > >>>> be
> > > > > >>>>>> what represents Avro the project, and you as the
> > contributors, not
> > > > > >>> the
> > > > > >>>>>> marketing and publicity office.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional
> > revisions
> > > > > >> of
> > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>> icons themselves in the future, so the options for the logos
> > will
> > > > > >> be
> > > > > >>>> V9.2
> > > > > >>>>>> (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will be
> > > > > >> uploading
> > > > > >>>> some
> > > > > >>>>>> revisions for the font used in the final design (once a
> > winner is
> > > > > >>>> chosen)
> > > > > >>>>>> to see if there is a better alternative on that front, but
> > > > > >> otherwise,
> > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>> icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks again
> > for all
> > > > > >>> your
> > > > > >>>>>> patience and feedback throughout the process!
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> All my best,
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Emma
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <
> > > > fokko@apache.org
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> Great work again!
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design,
> > icons
> > > > > >>> for
> > > > > >>>>>> logos
> > > > > >>>>>>>> should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to
> > > > > >>>> convey the
> > > > > >>>>>>>> desired image
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes a lot
> > of
> > > > > >>>> sense to
> > > > > >>>>>>> me.
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides the
> > > > > >> underside:
> > > > > >>>> this
> > > > > >>>>>>>> makes the plane look incomplete.
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane (which I
> > like
> > > > > >>> as
> > > > > >>>> a
> > > > > >>>>>>> reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and the
> > paper
> > > > > >>>> plane
> > > > > >>>>>> are
> > > > > >>>>>>> awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while the
> > pigeon
> > > > > >>>> might
> > > > > >>>>>>> bring up IP over Avian Carriers
> > > > > >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>.
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well.
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > >>>>>>> Fokko
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> > > > > >> Kind <
> > > > > >>>>>>> opwvhk@apache.org>:
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as better
> > > > > >> than
> > > > > >>>> V11.2,
> > > > > >>>>>>>> despite being angled downward. This is, I believe, because
> > the
> > > > > >>>> angle of
> > > > > >>>>>>>> V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look
> > > > > >> incomplete.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1
> > otherwise.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > >>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <
> > emma.a.kellam@gmail.com>
> > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and
> > > > > >> vote!
> > > > > >>> I
> > > > > >>>>>> wanted
> > > > > >>>>>>>> to
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally
> > > > > >> influenced
> > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>>>> initial
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> vote in any way!
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the
> > > > > >>> suggestions
> > > > > >>>>>> Ryan
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> received at the Community Over Code conference and Oscar's
> > > > > >>>> suggestion
> > > > > >>>>>>> of
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> another possible upwards variant.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties
> > > > > >> into
> > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>>> first
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and
> > > > > >> publicity
> > > > > >>>>>> office.
> > > > > >>>>>>> If
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition that
> > the
> > > > > >>>> upward
> > > > > >>>>>>>> design
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think
> > > > > >>> that's
> > > > > >>>>>> valid
> > > > > >>>>>>>> and
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest we
> > use
> > > > > >>> the
> > > > > >>>>>> 11.2
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some
> > slight
> > > > > >>>>>>> adjustments
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I
> > am a
> > > > > >>>> little
> > > > > >>>>>>> more
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2 design
> > did
> > > > > >>> not
> > > > > >>>>>> beat
> > > > > >>>>>>>> out
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of
> > > > > >>>> voting, and
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> ultimately I would like the final logo to be something that
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >>>>>>> community
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> as a whole loves and agrees upon!
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT Mono
> > > > > >> font
> > > > > >>>>>> being a
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only
> > > > > >> serifed
> > > > > >>>>>> letter.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> This is something I didn't notice before but they are
> > right!
> > > > > >> I
> > > > > >>>>>> actually
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> already have five other fonts on the backburner that I
> > tried
> > > > > >>>> when I
> > > > > >>>>>> was
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> drafting the original design versions but I personally
> > liked
> > > > > >>> the
> > > > > >>>> PT
> > > > > >>>>>>> Mono
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> font the best so gave that as the only option (which in
> > > > > >>> hindsight
> > > > > >>>>>> might
> > > > > >>>>>>>> not
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> have been the best choice). What I can do is once the final
> > > > > >>> icon
> > > > > >>>> is
> > > > > >>>>>>>> chosen
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can draft
> > > > > >> up a
> > > > > >>>> few
> > > > > >>>>>>> more
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> versions with the alternate font choices and we can decide
> > if
> > > > > >>>> one of
> > > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> other fonts will work better in the long run.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the marketing
> > > > > >> and
> > > > > >>>>>>> publicity
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue, I
> > > > > >> have
> > > > > >>>> to
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of
> > dark
> > > > > >>>> blue in
> > > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it would
> > be
> > > > > >>>>>> difficult
> > > > > >>>>>>> to
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it would
> > be
> > > > > >>>>>> impossible
> > > > > >>>>>>>> to
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic
> > > > > >> design,
> > > > > >>>> icons
> > > > > >>>>>>> for
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible
> > > > > >> design
> > > > > >>>> to
> > > > > >>>>>>> convey
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> the desired image. As an example of this, think of Apple's
> > > > > >>> logo,
> > > > > >>>>>> which
> > > > > >>>>>>>> is a
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit
> > > > > >> that
> > > > > >>> if
> > > > > >>>>>> Apple
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as
> > > > > >>> effective.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments to
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >>>> fonts
> > > > > >>>>>>> and
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so excited
> > to
> > > > > >>> see
> > > > > >>>>>> which
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> design will be the final winner in the end! :D
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> All my best,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Emma
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> > > > > >>> Kind <
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within
> > 6
> > > > > >>>> hours),
> > > > > >>>>>>> and
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> no
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> These are the votes:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V9.2: 3 votes
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V10.2: 1 vote
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V11.2: 0 votes
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the
> > > > > >> V3.1
> > > > > >>>>>> variant
> > > > > >>>>>>>> was
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>   part of the vote)
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between
> > > > > >> V9.2
> > > > > >>>> and
> > > > > >>>>>>> V3.1.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than
> > > > > >>>> enough)
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create
> > a
> > > > > >>>> good
> > > > > >>>>>>>> version
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> flying
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> slightly upward
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> <
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> instead
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her
> > > > > >> good
> > > > > >>>>>>> judgement
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> determine if that's really an improvement.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon
> > > > > >>> V3.1?
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <ryan@skraba.com
> > >
> > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote,
> > > > > >> but
> > > > > >>>> I had
> > > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office
> > > > > >>>> hours
> > > > > >>>>>>> during
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> community over Code conference. They had some pretty
> > > > > >>> specific
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> suggestions
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I
> > > > > >>> just
> > > > > >>>> want
> > > > > >>>>>>> to
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> capture them here!
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the
> > > > > >> r
> > > > > >>>> has
> > > > > >>>>>>> serifs
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> and
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the others don't.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the
> > > > > >>> word
> > > > > >>>> Avro
> > > > > >>>>>>> in
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> plane's dark blue!
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice
> > > > > >>>> things
> > > > > >>>>>>>> about
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> initiative!
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any
> > > > > >>>> adjustments
> > > > > >>>>>>>> after
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current
> > > > > >>>> logos
> > > > > >>>>>> and
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> leaving
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> any changes to Emma's discretion!
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> All my bets Ryan
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <bl...@tabular.io>
> > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> My vote is for 10.2.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe
> > > > > >> -
> > > > > >>>> Kind <
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It
> > > > > >>> looks
> > > > > >>>>>> good,
> > > > > >>>>>>>> and
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> it's
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> very distinctive.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And it's completely different from any send icon, so
> > > > > >> it
> > > > > >>>>>> cannot
> > > > > >>>>>>> be
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> conflated
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> with a message protocol icon.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> My vote is for V3.1
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <opwvhk@apache.org
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <
> > > > > >>>> ryan@skraba.com
> > > > > >>>>>>> :
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go
> > > > > >>> with
> > > > > >>>>>> V9.2
> > > > > >>>>>>>> -- I
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper
> > > > > >>> plane
> > > > > >>>>>> fits
> > > > > >>>>>>>> too
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nicely to pass up!
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling
> > > > > >>> the
> > > > > >>>>>> vote.
> > > > > >>>>>>> I
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> think
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <
> > > > > >>>>>>> iemejia@gmail.com
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> V9.2
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject
> > > > > >>>> and it
> > > > > >>>>>> is
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> great
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see the final selection.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma
> > > > > >> and
> > > > > >>>>>>> everyone!
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ismaël
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong <
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> fokko@apache.org>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Oscar,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active
> > > > > >> in
> > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> conversation
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around the new logo, but I followed it from the
> > > > > >>>>>> sideline.
> > > > > >>>>>>>> The
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> new
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> logos are
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the pigeon, especially the one
> > > > > >> with
> > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> envelope!
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> My
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> vote
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative
> > > > > >>>> version
> > > > > >>>>>>> :)
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra
> > > > > >>> van
> > > > > >>>>>>> Holthe -
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Kind
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> <
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The past month, there has been new progress
> > > > > >> on
> > > > > >>>> our
> > > > > >>>>>>> search
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> for a
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> new
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo (
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AVRO-3554 <
> > > > > >>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ).
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks to
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given,
> > > > > >>> we
> > > > > >>>> can
> > > > > >>>>>>> now
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> proceed
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> vote on
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the matter.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These are the finalists to choose from (if
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >>>> image
> > > > > >>>>>> is
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> unreadable,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> links to the comment where the finalists are
> > > > > >>>>>>> announced):
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts
> > > > > >>> longer
> > > > > >>>>>> than a
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> typical
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> release,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - to avoid confusion, please vote with the
> > > > > >>>> V...
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> ifentifier:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> V9.2,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> V10.2,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   V11.2, V3.1
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - the winner is the logo with at least two
> > > > > >>> (2)
> > > > > >>>>>> votes
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> more
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> than
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   runner-up
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote
> > > > > >> by
> > > > > >>>>>> simple
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> majority
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> between the
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   top picks
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please vote for your preference!
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > >>>> opwvhk@apache.org
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Blue
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Tabular
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > >> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> --
> > > > > >>>>> David M. Carr
> > > > > >>>>> david@carrclan.us
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> --
> > > > > >>> Best regards / Met vriendelijke groeten,
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Niels Basjes
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Daniel Kulp
> > > > > dkulp@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
> > > > > Qlik - https://qlik.com <https://qlik.com/>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> >

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Emma K <em...@gmail.com>]

Thank you Ryan for your guidance throughout my first contribution, Oscar
for your help driving the vote, and everyone for your kind words, feedback,
and votes! :D
This was so much fun to work on and I'm so grateful for the opportunity to
help the community in this regard :)

Now for the next steps! If we're unsure about the current font chosen (PT
Mono Bold) I have 3 other fonts I shortlisted when creating the initial
drafts of the designs that we can compare to the existing one. If we'd like
to go this route, I can upload the alternative font versions to the
AVRO-3554 JIRA issue and we can do one more quick vote for the final font.
However, if we're happy with the current font chosen for the logo we can
jump right into creating the versions to upload to the Apache Project Logos
website!

On the Apache Project Logos page, it looks like it's the convention to
upload two PNG versions (a 1200 x ___ size, and a 3600 x ___ size), a PDF
version, and an SVG version, so I'll start by creating all those versions
of V9.2 logo design. It also looks like a lot of projects upload a square
version of the design (the icon on top of the logo text; ex. Version 2 of
Apache Airflow), so I can create a square layout for the logo to go along
with the banner version (icon beside the logo text) that we already have.
Some projects also upload a version that can be used on dark backgrounds
(ex. Version 2 of Apache Calcite) so if we'd also like to do that as well
I'm more than happy to make some dark mode versions too! Finally, some
projects upload their logo icons on their own without any text (ex. Version
3 of Apache Airflow), and I can also do that if we'd like.

Please let me know your thoughts, in the meantime, I'll start getting to
work on either creating the alternate font options for another vote or the
final format versions :D

All my best,
Emma

On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 10:55 AM Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:

> Thanks so much Emma for the contribution and Oscar for driving the
> vote!  :D  This has been a fun thing to do -- I would love to see the
> pigeon immortalized someplace!  Maybe on a website page for credits
> and contributors?
>
> Emma, what do you think we need to finalize the logo?  I'm starting a
> list of places that need to be updated, starting at
> https://www.apache.org/logos/ !
>
> All my best, Ryan
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 10:04 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind
> <os...@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > The vote should have ended yesterday, but somehow we managed to more than
> > double the number of votes and still get the same outcome. The current
> > tally (all votes) is 5 votes for each option.
> >
> > So we're (again) at a tie.
> >
> > To force a conclusion, I'd like to resort to some arbitrary but hopefully
> > acceptable way to break the tie. By removing my own vote we'll get a
> simple
> > majority for one of the options (the same that failed to reach a +2
> > majority the previous round).
> >
> > This then brings the final tally to:
> >
> >    - 5 votes for V9.2 (the plane)
> >    - 4 votes for V3.1 (the pigeon)
> >
> > Which means that the winner is: *V9.2* (the plane)
> >
> > Thank you all for voting!
> >
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Oscar
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 at 13:51, Fokko Driesprong <fo...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks for the explanation, Emma!
> > >
> > > My vote still goes to 9.2
> > >
> > > Cheers, Fokko
> > >
> > > Op ma 23 okt 2023 om 07:39 schreef Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > v9.2 for me.   I definitely prefer the blue color and I really don’t
> get
> > > > the pigeon.
> > > >
> > > > Dan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Oct 23, 2023, at 5:04 AM, Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > TL;DR: if you haven't voted yet, please do so!
> > > > >
> > > > > As Emma has shown that an upwards angle change for V9.2 doesn't
> work, I
> > > > > think we should drop that version from the vote.
> > > > >
> > > > > This means, with the (binding) votes so far, that the result is a
> tie:
> > > > >
> > > > >   - V9.2: 2 votes
> > > > >   - V3.1: 2 votes
> > > > >
> > > > > Note: not everyone who voted the first round has voted again.
> > > > >
> > > > > *So if you have an opinion on the Avro logo, please vote!*
> > > > >
> > > > > On a side note: when I count all votes, there is no tie (there's an
> > > extra
> > > > > vote for v3.1). So if there are no additional votes, we can still
> have
> > > a
> > > > > result.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > Oscar
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:42, Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Oops! I realized there is a typo in my last message. I wrote that
> V3.2
> > > > is a
> > > > >> finalist (the pigeon without the outlines) instead of V3.1 as a
> > > finalist
> > > > >> (the pigeon with the outlines), my mistake!
> > > > >> The finalists are V9.2 (or V11.2 if you prefer upwards) and V3.1
> > > > >> Apologies for the confusion!
> > > > >>
> > > > >> All the best,
> > > > >> Emma
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 9:46 AM Niels Basjes <Ni...@basjes.nl>
> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Hi,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I had a good look at the logos and the pigeon version (v3.2
> without
> > > the
> > > > >>> line around it) has my preference.
> > > > >>> That said I'm totally fine if we use the v9.2 which also looks
> > > awesome.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Niels
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 2:37 PM Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> All of this is amazing -- it's really awesome for me to hear
> your
> > > > >>>> thought processes and arguments for the design.  I think we're
> > > pretty
> > > > >>>> lucky to have this insight!  My apologies for the delay, I just
> got
> > > > >>>> back from a vacation following the conference :D
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I wish I had better expressed the positive sentiment we got for
> the
> > > > >>>> designs when I was showing them off in person. I passed along
> the
> > > > >>>> suggestions because they were interesting, but definitely NOT
> > > > >>>> presented as mandatory. There will be ZERO hard feelings if we
> make
> > > > >>>> our own decision!
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I didn't say it in the first mail, but my subjective opinion is
> to
> > > > >>>> *disagree* with changing the airplane angle upwards.  Paper
> > > airplanes
> > > > >>>> that travel well *coast* easily (like Avro data).
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I maintain my v9.2 vote!
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 6:59 AM David M. Carr <
> david@carrclan.us>
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Great work on these, Emma.  My preference is for V3.2.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 2:37 PM Emma K <
> emma.a.kellam@gmail.com>
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here <
> > > > >>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to visually
> > > > >> capture
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>>>> suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle of the
> > > > >> plane
> > > > >>>> logo
> > > > >>>>>> is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem is
> that
> > > > >> the
> > > > >>>> blobby
> > > > >>>>>> bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when
> adjusted to
> > > > >>>> this new
> > > > >>>>>> angle and make the design less clean and even less obvious as
> to
> > > > >> what
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>>>> icon is, which is why in the original upward design V11.2 I
> didn't
> > > > >>> add
> > > > >>>> any
> > > > >>>>>> underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more abstract
> > > > >>>> representation
> > > > >>>>>> of the plane icon.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just rotate the
> V9.2
> > > > >>>> design
> > > > >>>>>> to an upward angle with no other changes. This also doesn't
> work,
> > > > >>>> because
> > > > >>>>>> the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation and the
> > > > >>>> underside of
> > > > >>>>>> the plane isn't right for this angle.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that it
> was
> > > > >> valid
> > > > >>>> and
> > > > >>>>>> made sense that the marketing booth preferred the upward-angle
> > > > >>> design.
> > > > >>>> When
> > > > >>>>>> I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward angle
> was
> > > > >>> better
> > > > >>>>>> than the other designs, what I meant to do was just validate
> that
> > > > >> it
> > > > >>>> was
> > > > >>>>>> okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's hard
> about
> > > > >>>> design
> > > > >>>>>> is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their own
> unique
> > > > >>>> opinions
> > > > >>>>>> on what looks better.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> But again, I want to make sure that the logo is something
> that the
> > > > >>>> *Avro
> > > > >>>>>> community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the passing
> > > > >>>> subjective
> > > > >>>>>> preference of the marketing and publicity office at the
> Community
> > > > >>> Over
> > > > >>>> Code
> > > > >>>>>> conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which is
> taking
> > > > >> away
> > > > >>>> from
> > > > >>>>>> the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I would
> just
> > > > >> like
> > > > >>> to
> > > > >>>>>> encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in the
> final
> > > > >>> vote,
> > > > >>>>>> because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen will
> > > > >> ultimately
> > > > >>>> be
> > > > >>>>>> what represents Avro the project, and you as the
> contributors, not
> > > > >>> the
> > > > >>>>>> marketing and publicity office.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional
> revisions
> > > > >> of
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>>>> icons themselves in the future, so the options for the logos
> will
> > > > >> be
> > > > >>>> V9.2
> > > > >>>>>> (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will be
> > > > >> uploading
> > > > >>>> some
> > > > >>>>>> revisions for the font used in the final design (once a
> winner is
> > > > >>>> chosen)
> > > > >>>>>> to see if there is a better alternative on that front, but
> > > > >> otherwise,
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>>>> icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks again
> for all
> > > > >>> your
> > > > >>>>>> patience and feedback throughout the process!
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> All my best,
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Emma
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <
> > > fokko@apache.org
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Great work again!
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design,
> icons
> > > > >>> for
> > > > >>>>>> logos
> > > > >>>>>>>> should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to
> > > > >>>> convey the
> > > > >>>>>>>> desired image
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes a lot
> of
> > > > >>>> sense to
> > > > >>>>>>> me.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides the
> > > > >> underside:
> > > > >>>> this
> > > > >>>>>>>> makes the plane look incomplete.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane (which I
> like
> > > > >>> as
> > > > >>>> a
> > > > >>>>>>> reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and the
> paper
> > > > >>>> plane
> > > > >>>>>> are
> > > > >>>>>>> awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while the
> pigeon
> > > > >>>> might
> > > > >>>>>>> bring up IP over Avian Carriers
> > > > >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > >>>>>>> Fokko
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> > > > >> Kind <
> > > > >>>>>>> opwvhk@apache.org>:
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as better
> > > > >> than
> > > > >>>> V11.2,
> > > > >>>>>>>> despite being angled downward. This is, I believe, because
> the
> > > > >>>> angle of
> > > > >>>>>>>> V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look
> > > > >> incomplete.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1
> otherwise.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > >>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <
> emma.a.kellam@gmail.com>
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and
> > > > >> vote!
> > > > >>> I
> > > > >>>>>> wanted
> > > > >>>>>>>> to
> > > > >>>>>>>>> refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally
> > > > >> influenced
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>> initial
> > > > >>>>>>>>> vote in any way!
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the
> > > > >>> suggestions
> > > > >>>>>> Ryan
> > > > >>>>>>>>> received at the Community Over Code conference and Oscar's
> > > > >>>> suggestion
> > > > >>>>>>> of
> > > > >>>>>>>>> another possible upwards variant.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties
> > > > >> into
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>> first
> > > > >>>>>>>>> point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and
> > > > >> publicity
> > > > >>>>>> office.
> > > > >>>>>>> If
> > > > >>>>>>>>> we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition that
> the
> > > > >>>> upward
> > > > >>>>>>>> design
> > > > >>>>>>>>> of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think
> > > > >>> that's
> > > > >>>>>> valid
> > > > >>>>>>>> and
> > > > >>>>>>>>> makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest we
> use
> > > > >>> the
> > > > >>>>>> 11.2
> > > > >>>>>>>>> design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some
> slight
> > > > >>>>>>> adjustments
> > > > >>>>>>>>> to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I
> am a
> > > > >>>> little
> > > > >>>>>>> more
> > > > >>>>>>>>> hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2 design
> did
> > > > >>> not
> > > > >>>>>> beat
> > > > >>>>>>>> out
> > > > >>>>>>>>> or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of
> > > > >>>> voting, and
> > > > >>>>>>>>> ultimately I would like the final logo to be something that
> > > > >> the
> > > > >>>>>>> community
> > > > >>>>>>>>> as a whole loves and agrees upon!
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT Mono
> > > > >> font
> > > > >>>>>> being a
> > > > >>>>>>>>> little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only
> > > > >> serifed
> > > > >>>>>> letter.
> > > > >>>>>>>>> This is something I didn't notice before but they are
> right!
> > > > >> I
> > > > >>>>>> actually
> > > > >>>>>>>>> already have five other fonts on the backburner that I
> tried
> > > > >>>> when I
> > > > >>>>>> was
> > > > >>>>>>>>> drafting the original design versions but I personally
> liked
> > > > >>> the
> > > > >>>> PT
> > > > >>>>>>> Mono
> > > > >>>>>>>>> font the best so gave that as the only option (which in
> > > > >>> hindsight
> > > > >>>>>> might
> > > > >>>>>>>> not
> > > > >>>>>>>>> have been the best choice). What I can do is once the final
> > > > >>> icon
> > > > >>>> is
> > > > >>>>>>>> chosen
> > > > >>>>>>>>> as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can draft
> > > > >> up a
> > > > >>>> few
> > > > >>>>>>> more
> > > > >>>>>>>>> versions with the alternate font choices and we can decide
> if
> > > > >>>> one of
> > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>> other fonts will work better in the long run.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the marketing
> > > > >> and
> > > > >>>>>>> publicity
> > > > >>>>>>>>> office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue, I
> > > > >> have
> > > > >>>> to
> > > > >>>>>>>>> respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of
> dark
> > > > >>>> blue in
> > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>> plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it would
> be
> > > > >>>>>> difficult
> > > > >>>>>>> to
> > > > >>>>>>>>> read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it would
> be
> > > > >>>>>> impossible
> > > > >>>>>>>> to
> > > > >>>>>>>>> parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic
> > > > >> design,
> > > > >>>> icons
> > > > >>>>>>> for
> > > > >>>>>>>>> logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible
> > > > >> design
> > > > >>>> to
> > > > >>>>>>> convey
> > > > >>>>>>>>> the desired image. As an example of this, think of Apple's
> > > > >>> logo,
> > > > >>>>>> which
> > > > >>>>>>>> is a
> > > > >>>>>>>>> simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit
> > > > >> that
> > > > >>> if
> > > > >>>>>> Apple
> > > > >>>>>>>>> wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as
> > > > >>> effective.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments to
> > > > >> the
> > > > >>>> fonts
> > > > >>>>>>> and
> > > > >>>>>>>>> the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so excited
> to
> > > > >>> see
> > > > >>>>>> which
> > > > >>>>>>>>> design will be the final winner in the end! :D
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> All my best,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Emma
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> > > > >>> Kind <
> > > > >>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within
> 6
> > > > >>>> hours),
> > > > >>>>>>> and
> > > > >>>>>>>>> no
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> These are the votes:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V9.2: 3 votes
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V10.2: 1 vote
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V11.2: 0 votes
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the
> > > > >> V3.1
> > > > >>>>>> variant
> > > > >>>>>>>> was
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>   part of the vote)
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between
> > > > >> V9.2
> > > > >>>> and
> > > > >>>>>>> V3.1.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than
> > > > >>>> enough)
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create
> a
> > > > >>>> good
> > > > >>>>>>>> version
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> flying
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> slightly upward
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> <
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> instead
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her
> > > > >> good
> > > > >>>>>>> judgement
> > > > >>>>>>>>> to
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> determine if that's really an improvement.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon
> > > > >>> V3.1?
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <ryan@skraba.com
> >
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote,
> > > > >> but
> > > > >>>> I had
> > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office
> > > > >>>> hours
> > > > >>>>>>> during
> > > > >>>>>>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> community over Code conference. They had some pretty
> > > > >>> specific
> > > > >>>>>>>>> suggestions
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I
> > > > >>> just
> > > > >>>> want
> > > > >>>>>>> to
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> capture them here!
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the
> > > > >> r
> > > > >>>> has
> > > > >>>>>>> serifs
> > > > >>>>>>>>> and
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the others don't.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the
> > > > >>> word
> > > > >>>> Avro
> > > > >>>>>>> in
> > > > >>>>>>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> plane's dark blue!
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice
> > > > >>>> things
> > > > >>>>>>>> about
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> initiative!
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any
> > > > >>>> adjustments
> > > > >>>>>>>> after
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current
> > > > >>>> logos
> > > > >>>>>> and
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> leaving
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> any changes to Emma's discretion!
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> All my bets Ryan
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <bl...@tabular.io>
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> My vote is for 10.2.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe
> > > > >> -
> > > > >>>> Kind <
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It
> > > > >>> looks
> > > > >>>>>> good,
> > > > >>>>>>>> and
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> it's
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> very distinctive.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And it's completely different from any send icon, so
> > > > >> it
> > > > >>>>>> cannot
> > > > >>>>>>> be
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> conflated
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> with a message protocol icon.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> My vote is for V3.1
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <opwvhk@apache.org
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <
> > > > >>>> ryan@skraba.com
> > > > >>>>>>> :
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go
> > > > >>> with
> > > > >>>>>> V9.2
> > > > >>>>>>>> -- I
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper
> > > > >>> plane
> > > > >>>>>> fits
> > > > >>>>>>>> too
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nicely to pass up!
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling
> > > > >>> the
> > > > >>>>>> vote.
> > > > >>>>>>> I
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> think
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <
> > > > >>>>>>> iemejia@gmail.com
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> V9.2
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject
> > > > >>>> and it
> > > > >>>>>> is
> > > > >>>>>>>>> great
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see the final selection.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma
> > > > >> and
> > > > >>>>>>> everyone!
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ismaël
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong <
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> fokko@apache.org>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Oscar,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active
> > > > >> in
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> conversation
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around the new logo, but I followed it from the
> > > > >>>>>> sideline.
> > > > >>>>>>>> The
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> new
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> logos are
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the pigeon, especially the one
> > > > >> with
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>> envelope!
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> My
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> vote
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative
> > > > >>>> version
> > > > >>>>>>> :)
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, Fokko
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra
> > > > >>> van
> > > > >>>>>>> Holthe -
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Kind
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> <
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The past month, there has been new progress
> > > > >> on
> > > > >>>> our
> > > > >>>>>>> search
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> for a
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> new
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo (
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AVRO-3554 <
> > > > >>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ).
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks to
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given,
> > > > >>> we
> > > > >>>> can
> > > > >>>>>>> now
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> proceed
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> vote on
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the matter.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These are the finalists to choose from (if
> > > > >> the
> > > > >>>> image
> > > > >>>>>> is
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> unreadable,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> links to the comment where the finalists are
> > > > >>>>>>> announced):
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts
> > > > >>> longer
> > > > >>>>>> than a
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> typical
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> release,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - to avoid confusion, please vote with the
> > > > >>>> V...
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> ifentifier:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> V9.2,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> V10.2,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   V11.2, V3.1
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - the winner is the logo with at least two
> > > > >>> (2)
> > > > >>>>>> votes
> > > > >>>>>>>>> more
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> than
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   runner-up
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote
> > > > >> by
> > > > >>>>>> simple
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> majority
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> between the
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   top picks
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please vote for your preference!
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > >>>> opwvhk@apache.org
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Blue
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Tabular
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > >> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> --
> > > > >>>>> David M. Carr
> > > > >>>>> david@carrclan.us
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> --
> > > > >>> Best regards / Met vriendelijke groeten,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Niels Basjes
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Daniel Kulp
> > > > dkulp@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
> > > > Qlik - https://qlik.com <https://qlik.com/>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
>

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>]

Thanks so much Emma for the contribution and Oscar for driving the
vote!  :D  This has been a fun thing to do -- I would love to see the
pigeon immortalized someplace!  Maybe on a website page for credits
and contributors?

Emma, what do you think we need to finalize the logo?  I'm starting a
list of places that need to be updated, starting at
https://www.apache.org/logos/ !

All my best, Ryan


On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 10:04 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind
<os...@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> The vote should have ended yesterday, but somehow we managed to more than
> double the number of votes and still get the same outcome. The current
> tally (all votes) is 5 votes for each option.
>
> So we're (again) at a tie.
>
> To force a conclusion, I'd like to resort to some arbitrary but hopefully
> acceptable way to break the tie. By removing my own vote we'll get a simple
> majority for one of the options (the same that failed to reach a +2
> majority the previous round).
>
> This then brings the final tally to:
>
>    - 5 votes for V9.2 (the plane)
>    - 4 votes for V3.1 (the pigeon)
>
> Which means that the winner is: *V9.2* (the plane)
>
> Thank you all for voting!
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Oscar
>
>
> On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 at 13:51, Fokko Driesprong <fo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the explanation, Emma!
> >
> > My vote still goes to 9.2
> >
> > Cheers, Fokko
> >
> > Op ma 23 okt 2023 om 07:39 schreef Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>:
> >
> > >
> > > v9.2 for me.   I definitely prefer the blue color and I really don’t get
> > > the pigeon.
> > >
> > > Dan
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Oct 23, 2023, at 5:04 AM, Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > TL;DR: if you haven't voted yet, please do so!
> > > >
> > > > As Emma has shown that an upwards angle change for V9.2 doesn't work, I
> > > > think we should drop that version from the vote.
> > > >
> > > > This means, with the (binding) votes so far, that the result is a tie:
> > > >
> > > >   - V9.2: 2 votes
> > > >   - V3.1: 2 votes
> > > >
> > > > Note: not everyone who voted the first round has voted again.
> > > >
> > > > *So if you have an opinion on the Avro logo, please vote!*
> > > >
> > > > On a side note: when I count all votes, there is no tie (there's an
> > extra
> > > > vote for v3.1). So if there are no additional votes, we can still have
> > a
> > > > result.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > > Oscar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:42, Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Oops! I realized there is a typo in my last message. I wrote that V3.2
> > > is a
> > > >> finalist (the pigeon without the outlines) instead of V3.1 as a
> > finalist
> > > >> (the pigeon with the outlines), my mistake!
> > > >> The finalists are V9.2 (or V11.2 if you prefer upwards) and V3.1
> > > >> Apologies for the confusion!
> > > >>
> > > >> All the best,
> > > >> Emma
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 9:46 AM Niels Basjes <Ni...@basjes.nl> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Hi,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I had a good look at the logos and the pigeon version (v3.2 without
> > the
> > > >>> line around it) has my preference.
> > > >>> That said I'm totally fine if we use the v9.2 which also looks
> > awesome.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Niels
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 2:37 PM Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> All of this is amazing -- it's really awesome for me to hear your
> > > >>>> thought processes and arguments for the design.  I think we're
> > pretty
> > > >>>> lucky to have this insight!  My apologies for the delay, I just got
> > > >>>> back from a vacation following the conference :D
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I wish I had better expressed the positive sentiment we got for the
> > > >>>> designs when I was showing them off in person. I passed along the
> > > >>>> suggestions because they were interesting, but definitely NOT
> > > >>>> presented as mandatory. There will be ZERO hard feelings if we make
> > > >>>> our own decision!
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I didn't say it in the first mail, but my subjective opinion is to
> > > >>>> *disagree* with changing the airplane angle upwards.  Paper
> > airplanes
> > > >>>> that travel well *coast* easily (like Avro data).
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I maintain my v9.2 vote!
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 6:59 AM David M. Carr <da...@carrclan.us>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Great work on these, Emma.  My preference is for V3.2.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 2:37 PM Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Hi all,
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here <
> > > >>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to visually
> > > >> capture
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>>>> suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle of the
> > > >> plane
> > > >>>> logo
> > > >>>>>> is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem is that
> > > >> the
> > > >>>> blobby
> > > >>>>>> bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when adjusted to
> > > >>>> this new
> > > >>>>>> angle and make the design less clean and even less obvious as to
> > > >> what
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>>>> icon is, which is why in the original upward design V11.2 I didn't
> > > >>> add
> > > >>>> any
> > > >>>>>> underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more abstract
> > > >>>> representation
> > > >>>>>> of the plane icon.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just rotate the V9.2
> > > >>>> design
> > > >>>>>> to an upward angle with no other changes. This also doesn't work,
> > > >>>> because
> > > >>>>>> the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation and the
> > > >>>> underside of
> > > >>>>>> the plane isn't right for this angle.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that it was
> > > >> valid
> > > >>>> and
> > > >>>>>> made sense that the marketing booth preferred the upward-angle
> > > >>> design.
> > > >>>> When
> > > >>>>>> I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward angle was
> > > >>> better
> > > >>>>>> than the other designs, what I meant to do was just validate that
> > > >> it
> > > >>>> was
> > > >>>>>> okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's hard about
> > > >>>> design
> > > >>>>>> is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their own unique
> > > >>>> opinions
> > > >>>>>> on what looks better.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> But again, I want to make sure that the logo is something that the
> > > >>>> *Avro
> > > >>>>>> community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the passing
> > > >>>> subjective
> > > >>>>>> preference of the marketing and publicity office at the Community
> > > >>> Over
> > > >>>> Code
> > > >>>>>> conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which is taking
> > > >> away
> > > >>>> from
> > > >>>>>> the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I would just
> > > >> like
> > > >>> to
> > > >>>>>> encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in the final
> > > >>> vote,
> > > >>>>>> because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen will
> > > >> ultimately
> > > >>>> be
> > > >>>>>> what represents Avro the project, and you as the contributors, not
> > > >>> the
> > > >>>>>> marketing and publicity office.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional revisions
> > > >> of
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>>>> icons themselves in the future, so the options for the logos will
> > > >> be
> > > >>>> V9.2
> > > >>>>>> (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will be
> > > >> uploading
> > > >>>> some
> > > >>>>>> revisions for the font used in the final design (once a winner is
> > > >>>> chosen)
> > > >>>>>> to see if there is a better alternative on that front, but
> > > >> otherwise,
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>>>> icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks again for all
> > > >>> your
> > > >>>>>> patience and feedback throughout the process!
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> All my best,
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Emma
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <
> > fokko@apache.org
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Great work again!
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons
> > > >>> for
> > > >>>>>> logos
> > > >>>>>>>> should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to
> > > >>>> convey the
> > > >>>>>>>> desired image
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes a lot of
> > > >>>> sense to
> > > >>>>>>> me.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides the
> > > >> underside:
> > > >>>> this
> > > >>>>>>>> makes the plane look incomplete.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane (which I like
> > > >>> as
> > > >>>> a
> > > >>>>>>> reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and the paper
> > > >>>> plane
> > > >>>>>> are
> > > >>>>>>> awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while the pigeon
> > > >>>> might
> > > >>>>>>> bring up IP over Avian Carriers
> > > >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > >>>>>>> Fokko
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> > > >> Kind <
> > > >>>>>>> opwvhk@apache.org>:
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as better
> > > >> than
> > > >>>> V11.2,
> > > >>>>>>>> despite being angled downward. This is, I believe, because the
> > > >>>> angle of
> > > >>>>>>>> V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look
> > > >> incomplete.
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1 otherwise.
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > >>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and
> > > >> vote!
> > > >>> I
> > > >>>>>> wanted
> > > >>>>>>>> to
> > > >>>>>>>>> refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally
> > > >> influenced
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>> initial
> > > >>>>>>>>> vote in any way!
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the
> > > >>> suggestions
> > > >>>>>> Ryan
> > > >>>>>>>>> received at the Community Over Code conference and Oscar's
> > > >>>> suggestion
> > > >>>>>>> of
> > > >>>>>>>>> another possible upwards variant.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties
> > > >> into
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>>>>> first
> > > >>>>>>>>> point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and
> > > >> publicity
> > > >>>>>> office.
> > > >>>>>>> If
> > > >>>>>>>>> we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition that the
> > > >>>> upward
> > > >>>>>>>> design
> > > >>>>>>>>> of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think
> > > >>> that's
> > > >>>>>> valid
> > > >>>>>>>> and
> > > >>>>>>>>> makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest we use
> > > >>> the
> > > >>>>>> 11.2
> > > >>>>>>>>> design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some slight
> > > >>>>>>> adjustments
> > > >>>>>>>>> to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I am a
> > > >>>> little
> > > >>>>>>> more
> > > >>>>>>>>> hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2 design did
> > > >>> not
> > > >>>>>> beat
> > > >>>>>>>> out
> > > >>>>>>>>> or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of
> > > >>>> voting, and
> > > >>>>>>>>> ultimately I would like the final logo to be something that
> > > >> the
> > > >>>>>>> community
> > > >>>>>>>>> as a whole loves and agrees upon!
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT Mono
> > > >> font
> > > >>>>>> being a
> > > >>>>>>>>> little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only
> > > >> serifed
> > > >>>>>> letter.
> > > >>>>>>>>> This is something I didn't notice before but they are right!
> > > >> I
> > > >>>>>> actually
> > > >>>>>>>>> already have five other fonts on the backburner that I tried
> > > >>>> when I
> > > >>>>>> was
> > > >>>>>>>>> drafting the original design versions but I personally liked
> > > >>> the
> > > >>>> PT
> > > >>>>>>> Mono
> > > >>>>>>>>> font the best so gave that as the only option (which in
> > > >>> hindsight
> > > >>>>>> might
> > > >>>>>>>> not
> > > >>>>>>>>> have been the best choice). What I can do is once the final
> > > >>> icon
> > > >>>> is
> > > >>>>>>>> chosen
> > > >>>>>>>>> as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can draft
> > > >> up a
> > > >>>> few
> > > >>>>>>> more
> > > >>>>>>>>> versions with the alternate font choices and we can decide if
> > > >>>> one of
> > > >>>>>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>>> other fonts will work better in the long run.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the marketing
> > > >> and
> > > >>>>>>> publicity
> > > >>>>>>>>> office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue, I
> > > >> have
> > > >>>> to
> > > >>>>>>>>> respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of dark
> > > >>>> blue in
> > > >>>>>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>>> plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it would be
> > > >>>>>> difficult
> > > >>>>>>> to
> > > >>>>>>>>> read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it would be
> > > >>>>>> impossible
> > > >>>>>>>> to
> > > >>>>>>>>> parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic
> > > >> design,
> > > >>>> icons
> > > >>>>>>> for
> > > >>>>>>>>> logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible
> > > >> design
> > > >>>> to
> > > >>>>>>> convey
> > > >>>>>>>>> the desired image. As an example of this, think of Apple's
> > > >>> logo,
> > > >>>>>> which
> > > >>>>>>>> is a
> > > >>>>>>>>> simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit
> > > >> that
> > > >>> if
> > > >>>>>> Apple
> > > >>>>>>>>> wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as
> > > >>> effective.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments to
> > > >> the
> > > >>>> fonts
> > > >>>>>>> and
> > > >>>>>>>>> the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so excited to
> > > >>> see
> > > >>>>>> which
> > > >>>>>>>>> design will be the final winner in the end! :D
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> All my best,
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Emma
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> > > >>> Kind <
> > > >>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within 6
> > > >>>> hours),
> > > >>>>>>> and
> > > >>>>>>>>> no
> > > >>>>>>>>>> non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> These are the votes:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V9.2: 3 votes
> > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V10.2: 1 vote
> > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V11.2: 0 votes
> > > >>>>>>>>>>   - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the
> > > >> V3.1
> > > >>>>>> variant
> > > >>>>>>>> was
> > > >>>>>>>>>>   part of the vote)
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between
> > > >> V9.2
> > > >>>> and
> > > >>>>>>> V3.1.
> > > >>>>>>>>>> (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than
> > > >>>> enough)
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create a
> > > >>>> good
> > > >>>>>>>> version
> > > >>>>>>>>>> flying
> > > >>>>>>>>>> slightly upward
> > > >>>>>>>>>> <
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > >
> > https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> instead
> > > >>>>>>>>>> of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her
> > > >> good
> > > >>>>>>> judgement
> > > >>>>>>>>> to
> > > >>>>>>>>>> determine if that's really an improvement.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon
> > > >>> V3.1?
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>
> > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote,
> > > >> but
> > > >>>> I had
> > > >>>>>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office
> > > >>>> hours
> > > >>>>>>> during
> > > >>>>>>>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> community over Code conference. They had some pretty
> > > >>> specific
> > > >>>>>>>>> suggestions
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I
> > > >>> just
> > > >>>> want
> > > >>>>>>> to
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> capture them here!
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the
> > > >> r
> > > >>>> has
> > > >>>>>>> serifs
> > > >>>>>>>>> and
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> the others don't.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the
> > > >>> word
> > > >>>> Avro
> > > >>>>>>> in
> > > >>>>>>>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> plane's dark blue!
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice
> > > >>>> things
> > > >>>>>>>> about
> > > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> initiative!
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any
> > > >>>> adjustments
> > > >>>>>>>> after
> > > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current
> > > >>>> logos
> > > >>>>>> and
> > > >>>>>>>>>> leaving
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> any changes to Emma's discretion!
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> All my bets Ryan
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <bl...@tabular.io>
> > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> My vote is for 10.2.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe
> > > >> -
> > > >>>> Kind <
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It
> > > >>> looks
> > > >>>>>> good,
> > > >>>>>>>> and
> > > >>>>>>>>>> it's
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> very distinctive.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And it's completely different from any send icon, so
> > > >> it
> > > >>>>>> cannot
> > > >>>>>>> be
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> conflated
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> with a message protocol icon.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> My vote is for V3.1
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <opwvhk@apache.org
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <
> > > >>>> ryan@skraba.com
> > > >>>>>>> :
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go
> > > >>> with
> > > >>>>>> V9.2
> > > >>>>>>>> -- I
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper
> > > >>> plane
> > > >>>>>> fits
> > > >>>>>>>> too
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nicely to pass up!
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling
> > > >>> the
> > > >>>>>> vote.
> > > >>>>>>> I
> > > >>>>>>>>>> think
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <
> > > >>>>>>> iemejia@gmail.com
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> V9.2
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject
> > > >>>> and it
> > > >>>>>> is
> > > >>>>>>>>> great
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> to
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see the final selection.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma
> > > >> and
> > > >>>>>>> everyone!
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ismaël
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong <
> > > >>>>>>>>>> fokko@apache.org>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Oscar,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active
> > > >> in
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>>>> conversation
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around the new logo, but I followed it from the
> > > >>>>>> sideline.
> > > >>>>>>>> The
> > > >>>>>>>>>> new
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> logos are
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the pigeon, especially the one
> > > >> with
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>>> envelope!
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> My
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> vote
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative
> > > >>>> version
> > > >>>>>>> :)
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, Fokko
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra
> > > >>> van
> > > >>>>>>> Holthe -
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Kind
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> <
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The past month, there has been new progress
> > > >> on
> > > >>>> our
> > > >>>>>>> search
> > > >>>>>>>>>> for a
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> new
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo (
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AVRO-3554 <
> > > >>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> ).
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks to
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given,
> > > >>> we
> > > >>>> can
> > > >>>>>>> now
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> proceed
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> vote on
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the matter.
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These are the finalists to choose from (if
> > > >> the
> > > >>>> image
> > > >>>>>> is
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> unreadable,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> links to the comment where the finalists are
> > > >>>>>>> announced):
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > >
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts
> > > >>> longer
> > > >>>>>> than a
> > > >>>>>>>>>> typical
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> release,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - to avoid confusion, please vote with the
> > > >>>> V...
> > > >>>>>>>>>> ifentifier:
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> V9.2,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> V10.2,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   V11.2, V3.1
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - the winner is the logo with at least two
> > > >>> (2)
> > > >>>>>> votes
> > > >>>>>>>>> more
> > > >>>>>>>>>>> than
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   runner-up
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote
> > > >> by
> > > >>>>>> simple
> > > >>>>>>>>>> majority
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> between the
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   top picks
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please vote for your preference!
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > >>>> opwvhk@apache.org
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Blue
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Tabular
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > >> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> --
> > > >>>>> David M. Carr
> > > >>>>> david@carrclan.us
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --
> > > >>> Best regards / Met vriendelijke groeten,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Niels Basjes
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > >
> > > --
> > > Daniel Kulp
> > > dkulp@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
> > > Qlik - https://qlik.com <https://qlik.com/>
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>]

Hello everyone,

The vote should have ended yesterday, but somehow we managed to more than
double the number of votes and still get the same outcome. The current
tally (all votes) is 5 votes for each option.

So we're (again) at a tie.

To force a conclusion, I'd like to resort to some arbitrary but hopefully
acceptable way to break the tie. By removing my own vote we'll get a simple
majority for one of the options (the same that failed to reach a +2
majority the previous round).

This then brings the final tally to:

   - 5 votes for V9.2 (the plane)
   - 4 votes for V3.1 (the pigeon)

Which means that the winner is: *V9.2* (the plane)

Thank you all for voting!


Kind regards,
Oscar


On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 at 13:51, Fokko Driesprong <fo...@apache.org> wrote:

> Thanks for the explanation, Emma!
>
> My vote still goes to 9.2
>
> Cheers, Fokko
>
> Op ma 23 okt 2023 om 07:39 schreef Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>:
>
> >
> > v9.2 for me.   I definitely prefer the blue color and I really don’t get
> > the pigeon.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> > > On Oct 23, 2023, at 5:04 AM, Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > TL;DR: if you haven't voted yet, please do so!
> > >
> > > As Emma has shown that an upwards angle change for V9.2 doesn't work, I
> > > think we should drop that version from the vote.
> > >
> > > This means, with the (binding) votes so far, that the result is a tie:
> > >
> > >   - V9.2: 2 votes
> > >   - V3.1: 2 votes
> > >
> > > Note: not everyone who voted the first round has voted again.
> > >
> > > *So if you have an opinion on the Avro logo, please vote!*
> > >
> > > On a side note: when I count all votes, there is no tie (there's an
> extra
> > > vote for v3.1). So if there are no additional votes, we can still have
> a
> > > result.
> > >
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Oscar
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:42, Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Oops! I realized there is a typo in my last message. I wrote that V3.2
> > is a
> > >> finalist (the pigeon without the outlines) instead of V3.1 as a
> finalist
> > >> (the pigeon with the outlines), my mistake!
> > >> The finalists are V9.2 (or V11.2 if you prefer upwards) and V3.1
> > >> Apologies for the confusion!
> > >>
> > >> All the best,
> > >> Emma
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 9:46 AM Niels Basjes <Ni...@basjes.nl> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi,
> > >>>
> > >>> I had a good look at the logos and the pigeon version (v3.2 without
> the
> > >>> line around it) has my preference.
> > >>> That said I'm totally fine if we use the v9.2 which also looks
> awesome.
> > >>>
> > >>> Niels
> > >>>
> > >>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 2:37 PM Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> All of this is amazing -- it's really awesome for me to hear your
> > >>>> thought processes and arguments for the design.  I think we're
> pretty
> > >>>> lucky to have this insight!  My apologies for the delay, I just got
> > >>>> back from a vacation following the conference :D
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I wish I had better expressed the positive sentiment we got for the
> > >>>> designs when I was showing them off in person. I passed along the
> > >>>> suggestions because they were interesting, but definitely NOT
> > >>>> presented as mandatory. There will be ZERO hard feelings if we make
> > >>>> our own decision!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I didn't say it in the first mail, but my subjective opinion is to
> > >>>> *disagree* with changing the airplane angle upwards.  Paper
> airplanes
> > >>>> that travel well *coast* easily (like Avro data).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I maintain my v9.2 vote!
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 6:59 AM David M. Carr <da...@carrclan.us>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Great work on these, Emma.  My preference is for V3.2.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 2:37 PM Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Hi all,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here <
> > >>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to visually
> > >> capture
> > >>>> the
> > >>>>>> suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle of the
> > >> plane
> > >>>> logo
> > >>>>>> is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem is that
> > >> the
> > >>>> blobby
> > >>>>>> bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when adjusted to
> > >>>> this new
> > >>>>>> angle and make the design less clean and even less obvious as to
> > >> what
> > >>>> the
> > >>>>>> icon is, which is why in the original upward design V11.2 I didn't
> > >>> add
> > >>>> any
> > >>>>>> underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more abstract
> > >>>> representation
> > >>>>>> of the plane icon.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just rotate the V9.2
> > >>>> design
> > >>>>>> to an upward angle with no other changes. This also doesn't work,
> > >>>> because
> > >>>>>> the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation and the
> > >>>> underside of
> > >>>>>> the plane isn't right for this angle.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that it was
> > >> valid
> > >>>> and
> > >>>>>> made sense that the marketing booth preferred the upward-angle
> > >>> design.
> > >>>> When
> > >>>>>> I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward angle was
> > >>> better
> > >>>>>> than the other designs, what I meant to do was just validate that
> > >> it
> > >>>> was
> > >>>>>> okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's hard about
> > >>>> design
> > >>>>>> is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their own unique
> > >>>> opinions
> > >>>>>> on what looks better.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> But again, I want to make sure that the logo is something that the
> > >>>> *Avro
> > >>>>>> community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the passing
> > >>>> subjective
> > >>>>>> preference of the marketing and publicity office at the Community
> > >>> Over
> > >>>> Code
> > >>>>>> conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which is taking
> > >> away
> > >>>> from
> > >>>>>> the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I would just
> > >> like
> > >>> to
> > >>>>>> encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in the final
> > >>> vote,
> > >>>>>> because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen will
> > >> ultimately
> > >>>> be
> > >>>>>> what represents Avro the project, and you as the contributors, not
> > >>> the
> > >>>>>> marketing and publicity office.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional revisions
> > >> of
> > >>>> the
> > >>>>>> icons themselves in the future, so the options for the logos will
> > >> be
> > >>>> V9.2
> > >>>>>> (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will be
> > >> uploading
> > >>>> some
> > >>>>>> revisions for the font used in the final design (once a winner is
> > >>>> chosen)
> > >>>>>> to see if there is a better alternative on that front, but
> > >> otherwise,
> > >>>> the
> > >>>>>> icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks again for all
> > >>> your
> > >>>>>> patience and feedback throughout the process!
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> All my best,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Emma
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <
> fokko@apache.org
> > >>>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Great work again!
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons
> > >>> for
> > >>>>>> logos
> > >>>>>>>> should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to
> > >>>> convey the
> > >>>>>>>> desired image
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes a lot of
> > >>>> sense to
> > >>>>>>> me.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides the
> > >> underside:
> > >>>> this
> > >>>>>>>> makes the plane look incomplete.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane (which I like
> > >>> as
> > >>>> a
> > >>>>>>> reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and the paper
> > >>>> plane
> > >>>>>> are
> > >>>>>>> awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while the pigeon
> > >>>> might
> > >>>>>>> bring up IP over Avian Carriers
> > >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > >>>>>>> Fokko
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> > >> Kind <
> > >>>>>>> opwvhk@apache.org>:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as better
> > >> than
> > >>>> V11.2,
> > >>>>>>>> despite being angled downward. This is, I believe, because the
> > >>>> angle of
> > >>>>>>>> V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look
> > >> incomplete.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1 otherwise.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > >>>>>>>> Oscar
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and
> > >> vote!
> > >>> I
> > >>>>>> wanted
> > >>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>> refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally
> > >> influenced
> > >>>> the
> > >>>>>>>> initial
> > >>>>>>>>> vote in any way!
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the
> > >>> suggestions
> > >>>>>> Ryan
> > >>>>>>>>> received at the Community Over Code conference and Oscar's
> > >>>> suggestion
> > >>>>>>> of
> > >>>>>>>>> another possible upwards variant.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties
> > >> into
> > >>>> the
> > >>>>>>> first
> > >>>>>>>>> point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and
> > >> publicity
> > >>>>>> office.
> > >>>>>>> If
> > >>>>>>>>> we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition that the
> > >>>> upward
> > >>>>>>>> design
> > >>>>>>>>> of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think
> > >>> that's
> > >>>>>> valid
> > >>>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>> makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest we use
> > >>> the
> > >>>>>> 11.2
> > >>>>>>>>> design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some slight
> > >>>>>>> adjustments
> > >>>>>>>>> to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I am a
> > >>>> little
> > >>>>>>> more
> > >>>>>>>>> hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2 design did
> > >>> not
> > >>>>>> beat
> > >>>>>>>> out
> > >>>>>>>>> or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of
> > >>>> voting, and
> > >>>>>>>>> ultimately I would like the final logo to be something that
> > >> the
> > >>>>>>> community
> > >>>>>>>>> as a whole loves and agrees upon!
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT Mono
> > >> font
> > >>>>>> being a
> > >>>>>>>>> little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only
> > >> serifed
> > >>>>>> letter.
> > >>>>>>>>> This is something I didn't notice before but they are right!
> > >> I
> > >>>>>> actually
> > >>>>>>>>> already have five other fonts on the backburner that I tried
> > >>>> when I
> > >>>>>> was
> > >>>>>>>>> drafting the original design versions but I personally liked
> > >>> the
> > >>>> PT
> > >>>>>>> Mono
> > >>>>>>>>> font the best so gave that as the only option (which in
> > >>> hindsight
> > >>>>>> might
> > >>>>>>>> not
> > >>>>>>>>> have been the best choice). What I can do is once the final
> > >>> icon
> > >>>> is
> > >>>>>>>> chosen
> > >>>>>>>>> as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can draft
> > >> up a
> > >>>> few
> > >>>>>>> more
> > >>>>>>>>> versions with the alternate font choices and we can decide if
> > >>>> one of
> > >>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>> other fonts will work better in the long run.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the marketing
> > >> and
> > >>>>>>> publicity
> > >>>>>>>>> office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue, I
> > >> have
> > >>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>> respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of dark
> > >>>> blue in
> > >>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>> plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it would be
> > >>>>>> difficult
> > >>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>> read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it would be
> > >>>>>> impossible
> > >>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>> parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic
> > >> design,
> > >>>> icons
> > >>>>>>> for
> > >>>>>>>>> logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible
> > >> design
> > >>>> to
> > >>>>>>> convey
> > >>>>>>>>> the desired image. As an example of this, think of Apple's
> > >>> logo,
> > >>>>>> which
> > >>>>>>>> is a
> > >>>>>>>>> simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit
> > >> that
> > >>> if
> > >>>>>> Apple
> > >>>>>>>>> wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as
> > >>> effective.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments to
> > >> the
> > >>>> fonts
> > >>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>> the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so excited to
> > >>> see
> > >>>>>> which
> > >>>>>>>>> design will be the final winner in the end! :D
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> All my best,
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Emma
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> > >>> Kind <
> > >>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within 6
> > >>>> hours),
> > >>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>> no
> > >>>>>>>>>> non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> These are the votes:
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>   - V9.2: 3 votes
> > >>>>>>>>>>   - V10.2: 1 vote
> > >>>>>>>>>>   - V11.2: 0 votes
> > >>>>>>>>>>   - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the
> > >> V3.1
> > >>>>>> variant
> > >>>>>>>> was
> > >>>>>>>>>>   part of the vote)
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between
> > >> V9.2
> > >>>> and
> > >>>>>>> V3.1.
> > >>>>>>>>>> (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than
> > >>>> enough)
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create a
> > >>>> good
> > >>>>>>>> version
> > >>>>>>>>>> flying
> > >>>>>>>>>> slightly upward
> > >>>>>>>>>> <
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
> https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> instead
> > >>>>>>>>>> of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her
> > >> good
> > >>>>>>> judgement
> > >>>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>> determine if that's really an improvement.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon
> > >>> V3.1?
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > >>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote,
> > >> but
> > >>>> I had
> > >>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office
> > >>>> hours
> > >>>>>>> during
> > >>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> community over Code conference. They had some pretty
> > >>> specific
> > >>>>>>>>> suggestions
> > >>>>>>>>>>> (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I
> > >>> just
> > >>>> want
> > >>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>>> capture them here!
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > >>>>>>>>>>> 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the
> > >> r
> > >>>> has
> > >>>>>>> serifs
> > >>>>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>>>> the others don't.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the
> > >>> word
> > >>>> Avro
> > >>>>>>> in
> > >>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> plane's dark blue!
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice
> > >>>> things
> > >>>>>>>> about
> > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> initiative!
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any
> > >>>> adjustments
> > >>>>>>>> after
> > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current
> > >>>> logos
> > >>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>>> leaving
> > >>>>>>>>>>> any changes to Emma's discretion!
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> All my bets Ryan
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <bl...@tabular.io>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> My vote is for 10.2.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe
> > >> -
> > >>>> Kind <
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It
> > >>> looks
> > >>>>>> good,
> > >>>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>>> it's
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> very distinctive.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And it's completely different from any send icon, so
> > >> it
> > >>>>>> cannot
> > >>>>>>> be
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> conflated
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> with a message protocol icon.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> My vote is for V3.1
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <opwvhk@apache.org
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <
> > >>>> ryan@skraba.com
> > >>>>>>> :
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go
> > >>> with
> > >>>>>> V9.2
> > >>>>>>>> -- I
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper
> > >>> plane
> > >>>>>> fits
> > >>>>>>>> too
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nicely to pass up!
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling
> > >>> the
> > >>>>>> vote.
> > >>>>>>> I
> > >>>>>>>>>> think
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> your voting proposal makes sense!
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <
> > >>>>>>> iemejia@gmail.com
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> V9.2
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject
> > >>>> and it
> > >>>>>> is
> > >>>>>>>>> great
> > >>>>>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see the final selection.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma
> > >> and
> > >>>>>>> everyone!
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ismaël
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong <
> > >>>>>>>>>> fokko@apache.org>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Oscar,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active
> > >> in
> > >>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>> conversation
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around the new logo, but I followed it from the
> > >>>>>> sideline.
> > >>>>>>>> The
> > >>>>>>>>>> new
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> logos are
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the pigeon, especially the one
> > >> with
> > >>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>> envelope!
> > >>>>>>>>>>> My
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> vote
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative
> > >>>> version
> > >>>>>>> :)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, Fokko
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra
> > >>> van
> > >>>>>>> Holthe -
> > >>>>>>>>>> Kind
> > >>>>>>>>>>> <
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The past month, there has been new progress
> > >> on
> > >>>> our
> > >>>>>>> search
> > >>>>>>>>>> for a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> new
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo (
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AVRO-3554 <
> > >>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> > >>>>>>>>>>> ).
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given,
> > >>> we
> > >>>> can
> > >>>>>>> now
> > >>>>>>>>>>> proceed
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> vote on
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the matter.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These are the finalists to choose from (if
> > >> the
> > >>>> image
> > >>>>>> is
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> unreadable,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> links to the comment where the finalists are
> > >>>>>>> announced):
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts
> > >>> longer
> > >>>>>> than a
> > >>>>>>>>>> typical
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> release,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - to avoid confusion, please vote with the
> > >>>> V...
> > >>>>>>>>>> ifentifier:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> V9.2,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> V10.2,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   V11.2, V3.1
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - the winner is the logo with at least two
> > >>> (2)
> > >>>>>> votes
> > >>>>>>>>> more
> > >>>>>>>>>>> than
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   runner-up
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote
> > >> by
> > >>>>>> simple
> > >>>>>>>>>> majority
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> between the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   top picks
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please vote for your preference!
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > >>>> opwvhk@apache.org
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Blue
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Tabular
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > >> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>>>> Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> David M. Carr
> > >>>>> david@carrclan.us
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Best regards / Met vriendelijke groeten,
> > >>>
> > >>> Niels Basjes
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> >
> > --
> > Daniel Kulp
> > dkulp@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
> > Qlik - https://qlik.com <https://qlik.com/>
> >
>


-- 

✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Fokko Driesprong <fo...@apache.org>]

Thanks for the explanation, Emma!

My vote still goes to 9.2

Cheers, Fokko

Op ma 23 okt 2023 om 07:39 schreef Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>:

>
> v9.2 for me.   I definitely prefer the blue color and I really don’t get
> the pigeon.
>
> Dan
>
>
> > On Oct 23, 2023, at 5:04 AM, Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > TL;DR: if you haven't voted yet, please do so!
> >
> > As Emma has shown that an upwards angle change for V9.2 doesn't work, I
> > think we should drop that version from the vote.
> >
> > This means, with the (binding) votes so far, that the result is a tie:
> >
> >   - V9.2: 2 votes
> >   - V3.1: 2 votes
> >
> > Note: not everyone who voted the first round has voted again.
> >
> > *So if you have an opinion on the Avro logo, please vote!*
> >
> > On a side note: when I count all votes, there is no tie (there's an extra
> > vote for v3.1). So if there are no additional votes, we can still have a
> > result.
> >
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Oscar
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:42, Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Oops! I realized there is a typo in my last message. I wrote that V3.2
> is a
> >> finalist (the pigeon without the outlines) instead of V3.1 as a finalist
> >> (the pigeon with the outlines), my mistake!
> >> The finalists are V9.2 (or V11.2 if you prefer upwards) and V3.1
> >> Apologies for the confusion!
> >>
> >> All the best,
> >> Emma
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 9:46 AM Niels Basjes <Ni...@basjes.nl> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I had a good look at the logos and the pigeon version (v3.2 without the
> >>> line around it) has my preference.
> >>> That said I'm totally fine if we use the v9.2 which also looks awesome.
> >>>
> >>> Niels
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 2:37 PM Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> All of this is amazing -- it's really awesome for me to hear your
> >>>> thought processes and arguments for the design.  I think we're pretty
> >>>> lucky to have this insight!  My apologies for the delay, I just got
> >>>> back from a vacation following the conference :D
> >>>>
> >>>> I wish I had better expressed the positive sentiment we got for the
> >>>> designs when I was showing them off in person. I passed along the
> >>>> suggestions because they were interesting, but definitely NOT
> >>>> presented as mandatory. There will be ZERO hard feelings if we make
> >>>> our own decision!
> >>>>
> >>>> I didn't say it in the first mail, but my subjective opinion is to
> >>>> *disagree* with changing the airplane angle upwards.  Paper airplanes
> >>>> that travel well *coast* easily (like Avro data).
> >>>>
> >>>> I maintain my v9.2 vote!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 6:59 AM David M. Carr <da...@carrclan.us>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Great work on these, Emma.  My preference is for V3.2.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 2:37 PM Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here <
> >>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to visually
> >> capture
> >>>> the
> >>>>>> suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle of the
> >> plane
> >>>> logo
> >>>>>> is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem is that
> >> the
> >>>> blobby
> >>>>>> bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when adjusted to
> >>>> this new
> >>>>>> angle and make the design less clean and even less obvious as to
> >> what
> >>>> the
> >>>>>> icon is, which is why in the original upward design V11.2 I didn't
> >>> add
> >>>> any
> >>>>>> underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more abstract
> >>>> representation
> >>>>>> of the plane icon.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just rotate the V9.2
> >>>> design
> >>>>>> to an upward angle with no other changes. This also doesn't work,
> >>>> because
> >>>>>> the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation and the
> >>>> underside of
> >>>>>> the plane isn't right for this angle.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that it was
> >> valid
> >>>> and
> >>>>>> made sense that the marketing booth preferred the upward-angle
> >>> design.
> >>>> When
> >>>>>> I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward angle was
> >>> better
> >>>>>> than the other designs, what I meant to do was just validate that
> >> it
> >>>> was
> >>>>>> okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's hard about
> >>>> design
> >>>>>> is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their own unique
> >>>> opinions
> >>>>>> on what looks better.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But again, I want to make sure that the logo is something that the
> >>>> *Avro
> >>>>>> community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the passing
> >>>> subjective
> >>>>>> preference of the marketing and publicity office at the Community
> >>> Over
> >>>> Code
> >>>>>> conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which is taking
> >> away
> >>>> from
> >>>>>> the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I would just
> >> like
> >>> to
> >>>>>> encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in the final
> >>> vote,
> >>>>>> because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen will
> >> ultimately
> >>>> be
> >>>>>> what represents Avro the project, and you as the contributors, not
> >>> the
> >>>>>> marketing and publicity office.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional revisions
> >> of
> >>>> the
> >>>>>> icons themselves in the future, so the options for the logos will
> >> be
> >>>> V9.2
> >>>>>> (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will be
> >> uploading
> >>>> some
> >>>>>> revisions for the font used in the final design (once a winner is
> >>>> chosen)
> >>>>>> to see if there is a better alternative on that front, but
> >> otherwise,
> >>>> the
> >>>>>> icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks again for all
> >>> your
> >>>>>> patience and feedback throughout the process!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> All my best,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Emma
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <fokko@apache.org
> >>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Great work again!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons
> >>> for
> >>>>>> logos
> >>>>>>>> should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to
> >>>> convey the
> >>>>>>>> desired image
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes a lot of
> >>>> sense to
> >>>>>>> me.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides the
> >> underside:
> >>>> this
> >>>>>>>> makes the plane look incomplete.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane (which I like
> >>> as
> >>>> a
> >>>>>>> reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and the paper
> >>>> plane
> >>>>>> are
> >>>>>>> awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while the pigeon
> >>>> might
> >>>>>>> bring up IP over Avian Carriers
> >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Kind regards,
> >>>>>>> Fokko
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> >> Kind <
> >>>>>>> opwvhk@apache.org>:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as better
> >> than
> >>>> V11.2,
> >>>>>>>> despite being angled downward. This is, I believe, because the
> >>>> angle of
> >>>>>>>> V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look
> >> incomplete.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1 otherwise.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> >>>>>>>> Oscar
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and
> >> vote!
> >>> I
> >>>>>> wanted
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>> refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally
> >> influenced
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>>> initial
> >>>>>>>>> vote in any way!
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the
> >>> suggestions
> >>>>>> Ryan
> >>>>>>>>> received at the Community Over Code conference and Oscar's
> >>>> suggestion
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>> another possible upwards variant.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties
> >> into
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>> first
> >>>>>>>>> point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and
> >> publicity
> >>>>>> office.
> >>>>>>> If
> >>>>>>>>> we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition that the
> >>>> upward
> >>>>>>>> design
> >>>>>>>>> of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think
> >>> that's
> >>>>>> valid
> >>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>> makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest we use
> >>> the
> >>>>>> 11.2
> >>>>>>>>> design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some slight
> >>>>>>> adjustments
> >>>>>>>>> to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I am a
> >>>> little
> >>>>>>> more
> >>>>>>>>> hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2 design did
> >>> not
> >>>>>> beat
> >>>>>>>> out
> >>>>>>>>> or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of
> >>>> voting, and
> >>>>>>>>> ultimately I would like the final logo to be something that
> >> the
> >>>>>>> community
> >>>>>>>>> as a whole loves and agrees upon!
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT Mono
> >> font
> >>>>>> being a
> >>>>>>>>> little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only
> >> serifed
> >>>>>> letter.
> >>>>>>>>> This is something I didn't notice before but they are right!
> >> I
> >>>>>> actually
> >>>>>>>>> already have five other fonts on the backburner that I tried
> >>>> when I
> >>>>>> was
> >>>>>>>>> drafting the original design versions but I personally liked
> >>> the
> >>>> PT
> >>>>>>> Mono
> >>>>>>>>> font the best so gave that as the only option (which in
> >>> hindsight
> >>>>>> might
> >>>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>>>> have been the best choice). What I can do is once the final
> >>> icon
> >>>> is
> >>>>>>>> chosen
> >>>>>>>>> as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can draft
> >> up a
> >>>> few
> >>>>>>> more
> >>>>>>>>> versions with the alternate font choices and we can decide if
> >>>> one of
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> other fonts will work better in the long run.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the marketing
> >> and
> >>>>>>> publicity
> >>>>>>>>> office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue, I
> >> have
> >>>> to
> >>>>>>>>> respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of dark
> >>>> blue in
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it would be
> >>>>>> difficult
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>> read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it would be
> >>>>>> impossible
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>> parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic
> >> design,
> >>>> icons
> >>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>>> logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible
> >> design
> >>>> to
> >>>>>>> convey
> >>>>>>>>> the desired image. As an example of this, think of Apple's
> >>> logo,
> >>>>>> which
> >>>>>>>> is a
> >>>>>>>>> simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit
> >> that
> >>> if
> >>>>>> Apple
> >>>>>>>>> wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as
> >>> effective.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments to
> >> the
> >>>> fonts
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>> the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so excited to
> >>> see
> >>>>>> which
> >>>>>>>>> design will be the final winner in the end! :D
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> All my best,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Emma
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> >>> Kind <
> >>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within 6
> >>>> hours),
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>> no
> >>>>>>>>>> non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> These are the votes:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>   - V9.2: 3 votes
> >>>>>>>>>>   - V10.2: 1 vote
> >>>>>>>>>>   - V11.2: 0 votes
> >>>>>>>>>>   - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the
> >> V3.1
> >>>>>> variant
> >>>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>>>>>   part of the vote)
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between
> >> V9.2
> >>>> and
> >>>>>>> V3.1.
> >>>>>>>>>> (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than
> >>>> enough)
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create a
> >>>> good
> >>>>>>>> version
> >>>>>>>>>> flying
> >>>>>>>>>> slightly upward
> >>>>>>>>>> <
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> instead
> >>>>>>>>>> of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her
> >> good
> >>>>>>> judgement
> >>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> determine if that's really an improvement.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon
> >>> V3.1?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> >>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote,
> >> but
> >>>> I had
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office
> >>>> hours
> >>>>>>> during
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> community over Code conference. They had some pretty
> >>> specific
> >>>>>>>>> suggestions
> >>>>>>>>>>> (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I
> >>> just
> >>>> want
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>> capture them here!
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> >>>>>>>>>>> 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the
> >> r
> >>>> has
> >>>>>>> serifs
> >>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>> the others don't.
> >>>>>>>>>>> 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the
> >>> word
> >>>> Avro
> >>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> plane's dark blue!
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice
> >>>> things
> >>>>>>>> about
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> initiative!
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any
> >>>> adjustments
> >>>>>>>> after
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current
> >>>> logos
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>> leaving
> >>>>>>>>>>> any changes to Emma's discretion!
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> All my bets Ryan
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <bl...@tabular.io>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> My vote is for 10.2.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe
> >> -
> >>>> Kind <
> >>>>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It
> >>> looks
> >>>>>> good,
> >>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>> it's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> very distinctive.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And it's completely different from any send icon, so
> >> it
> >>>>>> cannot
> >>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>>>>> conflated
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> with a message protocol icon.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> My vote is for V3.1
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <opwvhk@apache.org
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <
> >>>> ryan@skraba.com
> >>>>>>> :
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go
> >>> with
> >>>>>> V9.2
> >>>>>>>> -- I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper
> >>> plane
> >>>>>> fits
> >>>>>>>> too
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nicely to pass up!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling
> >>> the
> >>>>>> vote.
> >>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>> think
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> your voting proposal makes sense!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <
> >>>>>>> iemejia@gmail.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> V9.2
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject
> >>>> and it
> >>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>> great
> >>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see the final selection.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma
> >> and
> >>>>>>> everyone!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ismaël
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong <
> >>>>>>>>>> fokko@apache.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Oscar,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active
> >> in
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> conversation
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around the new logo, but I followed it from the
> >>>>>> sideline.
> >>>>>>>> The
> >>>>>>>>>> new
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> logos are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the pigeon, especially the one
> >> with
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> envelope!
> >>>>>>>>>>> My
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> vote
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative
> >>>> version
> >>>>>>> :)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, Fokko
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra
> >>> van
> >>>>>>> Holthe -
> >>>>>>>>>> Kind
> >>>>>>>>>>> <
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The past month, there has been new progress
> >> on
> >>>> our
> >>>>>>> search
> >>>>>>>>>> for a
> >>>>>>>>>>>> new
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo (
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AVRO-3554 <
> >>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> >>>>>>>>>>> ).
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given,
> >>> we
> >>>> can
> >>>>>>> now
> >>>>>>>>>>> proceed
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> vote on
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the matter.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These are the finalists to choose from (if
> >> the
> >>>> image
> >>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>> unreadable,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> links to the comment where the finalists are
> >>>>>>> announced):
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts
> >>> longer
> >>>>>> than a
> >>>>>>>>>> typical
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> release,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rules deviate from the usual rules
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - to avoid confusion, please vote with the
> >>>> V...
> >>>>>>>>>> ifentifier:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> V9.2,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> V10.2,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   V11.2, V3.1
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - the winner is the logo with at least two
> >>> (2)
> >>>>>> votes
> >>>>>>>>> more
> >>>>>>>>>>> than
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   runner-up
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote
> >> by
> >>>>>> simple
> >>>>>>>>>> majority
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> between the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   top picks
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please vote for your preference!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> >>>> opwvhk@apache.org
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Blue
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Tabular
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> >> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>> Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> David M. Carr
> >>>>> david@carrclan.us
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Best regards / Met vriendelijke groeten,
> >>>
> >>> Niels Basjes
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
>
> --
> Daniel Kulp
> dkulp@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
> Qlik - https://qlik.com <https://qlik.com/>
>

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>]

v9.2 for me.   I definitely prefer the blue color and I really don’t get the pigeon.  

Dan


> On Oct 23, 2023, at 5:04 AM, Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> TL;DR: if you haven't voted yet, please do so!
> 
> As Emma has shown that an upwards angle change for V9.2 doesn't work, I
> think we should drop that version from the vote.
> 
> This means, with the (binding) votes so far, that the result is a tie:
> 
>   - V9.2: 2 votes
>   - V3.1: 2 votes
> 
> Note: not everyone who voted the first round has voted again.
> 
> *So if you have an opinion on the Avro logo, please vote!*
> 
> On a side note: when I count all votes, there is no tie (there's an extra
> vote for v3.1). So if there are no additional votes, we can still have a
> result.
> 
> 
> Kind regards,
> Oscar
> 
> 
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:42, Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Oops! I realized there is a typo in my last message. I wrote that V3.2 is a
>> finalist (the pigeon without the outlines) instead of V3.1 as a finalist
>> (the pigeon with the outlines), my mistake!
>> The finalists are V9.2 (or V11.2 if you prefer upwards) and V3.1
>> Apologies for the confusion!
>> 
>> All the best,
>> Emma
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 9:46 AM Niels Basjes <Ni...@basjes.nl> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I had a good look at the logos and the pigeon version (v3.2 without the
>>> line around it) has my preference.
>>> That said I'm totally fine if we use the v9.2 which also looks awesome.
>>> 
>>> Niels
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 2:37 PM Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> All of this is amazing -- it's really awesome for me to hear your
>>>> thought processes and arguments for the design.  I think we're pretty
>>>> lucky to have this insight!  My apologies for the delay, I just got
>>>> back from a vacation following the conference :D
>>>> 
>>>> I wish I had better expressed the positive sentiment we got for the
>>>> designs when I was showing them off in person. I passed along the
>>>> suggestions because they were interesting, but definitely NOT
>>>> presented as mandatory. There will be ZERO hard feelings if we make
>>>> our own decision!
>>>> 
>>>> I didn't say it in the first mail, but my subjective opinion is to
>>>> *disagree* with changing the airplane angle upwards.  Paper airplanes
>>>> that travel well *coast* easily (like Avro data).
>>>> 
>>>> I maintain my v9.2 vote!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 6:59 AM David M. Carr <da...@carrclan.us>
>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Great work on these, Emma.  My preference is for V3.2.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 2:37 PM Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here <
>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to visually
>> capture
>>>> the
>>>>>> suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle of the
>> plane
>>>> logo
>>>>>> is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem is that
>> the
>>>> blobby
>>>>>> bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when adjusted to
>>>> this new
>>>>>> angle and make the design less clean and even less obvious as to
>> what
>>>> the
>>>>>> icon is, which is why in the original upward design V11.2 I didn't
>>> add
>>>> any
>>>>>> underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more abstract
>>>> representation
>>>>>> of the plane icon.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just rotate the V9.2
>>>> design
>>>>>> to an upward angle with no other changes. This also doesn't work,
>>>> because
>>>>>> the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation and the
>>>> underside of
>>>>>> the plane isn't right for this angle.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that it was
>> valid
>>>> and
>>>>>> made sense that the marketing booth preferred the upward-angle
>>> design.
>>>> When
>>>>>> I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward angle was
>>> better
>>>>>> than the other designs, what I meant to do was just validate that
>> it
>>>> was
>>>>>> okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's hard about
>>>> design
>>>>>> is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their own unique
>>>> opinions
>>>>>> on what looks better.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But again, I want to make sure that the logo is something that the
>>>> *Avro
>>>>>> community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the passing
>>>> subjective
>>>>>> preference of the marketing and publicity office at the Community
>>> Over
>>>> Code
>>>>>> conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which is taking
>> away
>>>> from
>>>>>> the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I would just
>> like
>>> to
>>>>>> encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in the final
>>> vote,
>>>>>> because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen will
>> ultimately
>>>> be
>>>>>> what represents Avro the project, and you as the contributors, not
>>> the
>>>>>> marketing and publicity office.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional revisions
>> of
>>>> the
>>>>>> icons themselves in the future, so the options for the logos will
>> be
>>>> V9.2
>>>>>> (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will be
>> uploading
>>>> some
>>>>>> revisions for the font used in the final design (once a winner is
>>>> chosen)
>>>>>> to see if there is a better alternative on that front, but
>> otherwise,
>>>> the
>>>>>> icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks again for all
>>> your
>>>>>> patience and feedback throughout the process!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> All my best,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Emma
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <fokko@apache.org
>>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Great work again!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons
>>> for
>>>>>> logos
>>>>>>>> should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to
>>>> convey the
>>>>>>>> desired image
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes a lot of
>>>> sense to
>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides the
>> underside:
>>>> this
>>>>>>>> makes the plane look incomplete.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane (which I like
>>> as
>>>> a
>>>>>>> reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and the paper
>>>> plane
>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while the pigeon
>>>> might
>>>>>>> bring up IP over Avian Carriers
>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>> Fokko
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe -
>> Kind <
>>>>>>> opwvhk@apache.org>:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as better
>> than
>>>> V11.2,
>>>>>>>> despite being angled downward. This is, I believe, because the
>>>> angle of
>>>>>>>> V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look
>> incomplete.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1 otherwise.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>> Oscar
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and
>> vote!
>>> I
>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally
>> influenced
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> initial
>>>>>>>>> vote in any way!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the
>>> suggestions
>>>>>> Ryan
>>>>>>>>> received at the Community Over Code conference and Oscar's
>>>> suggestion
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> another possible upwards variant.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties
>> into
>>>> the
>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>> point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and
>> publicity
>>>>>> office.
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>> we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition that the
>>>> upward
>>>>>>>> design
>>>>>>>>> of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think
>>> that's
>>>>>> valid
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest we use
>>> the
>>>>>> 11.2
>>>>>>>>> design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some slight
>>>>>>> adjustments
>>>>>>>>> to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I am a
>>>> little
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2 design did
>>> not
>>>>>> beat
>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>> or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of
>>>> voting, and
>>>>>>>>> ultimately I would like the final logo to be something that
>> the
>>>>>>> community
>>>>>>>>> as a whole loves and agrees upon!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT Mono
>> font
>>>>>> being a
>>>>>>>>> little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only
>> serifed
>>>>>> letter.
>>>>>>>>> This is something I didn't notice before but they are right!
>> I
>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>> already have five other fonts on the backburner that I tried
>>>> when I
>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> drafting the original design versions but I personally liked
>>> the
>>>> PT
>>>>>>> Mono
>>>>>>>>> font the best so gave that as the only option (which in
>>> hindsight
>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> have been the best choice). What I can do is once the final
>>> icon
>>>> is
>>>>>>>> chosen
>>>>>>>>> as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can draft
>> up a
>>>> few
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> versions with the alternate font choices and we can decide if
>>>> one of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> other fonts will work better in the long run.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the marketing
>> and
>>>>>>> publicity
>>>>>>>>> office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue, I
>> have
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of dark
>>>> blue in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it would be
>>>>>> difficult
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it would be
>>>>>> impossible
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic
>> design,
>>>> icons
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible
>> design
>>>> to
>>>>>>> convey
>>>>>>>>> the desired image. As an example of this, think of Apple's
>>> logo,
>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>>>> simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit
>> that
>>> if
>>>>>> Apple
>>>>>>>>> wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as
>>> effective.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments to
>> the
>>>> fonts
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so excited to
>>> see
>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>> design will be the final winner in the end! :D
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> All my best,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Emma
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe -
>>> Kind <
>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within 6
>>>> hours),
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>> non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> These are the votes:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>   - V9.2: 3 votes
>>>>>>>>>>   - V10.2: 1 vote
>>>>>>>>>>   - V11.2: 0 votes
>>>>>>>>>>   - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the
>> V3.1
>>>>>> variant
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>   part of the vote)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between
>> V9.2
>>>> and
>>>>>>> V3.1.
>>>>>>>>>> (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than
>>>> enough)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create a
>>>> good
>>>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>>> flying
>>>>>>>>>> slightly upward
>>>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> instead
>>>>>>>>>> of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her
>> good
>>>>>>> judgement
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> determine if that's really an improvement.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon
>>> V3.1?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote,
>> but
>>>> I had
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office
>>>> hours
>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> community over Code conference. They had some pretty
>>> specific
>>>>>>>>> suggestions
>>>>>>>>>>> (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I
>>> just
>>>> want
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> capture them here!
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Plane going up is better than down!
>>>>>>>>>>> 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the
>> r
>>>> has
>>>>>>> serifs
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> the others don't.
>>>>>>>>>>> 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the
>>> word
>>>> Avro
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> plane's dark blue!
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice
>>>> things
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> initiative!
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any
>>>> adjustments
>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current
>>>> logos
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> leaving
>>>>>>>>>>> any changes to Emma's discretion!
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> All my bets Ryan
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <bl...@tabular.io>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> My vote is for 10.2.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe
>> -
>>>> Kind <
>>>>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It
>>> looks
>>>>>> good,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> very distinctive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And it's completely different from any send icon, so
>> it
>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> conflated
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a message protocol icon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My vote is for V3.1
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <opwvhk@apache.org
>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <
>>>> ryan@skraba.com
>>>>>>> :
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go
>>> with
>>>>>> V9.2
>>>>>>>> -- I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper
>>> plane
>>>>>> fits
>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nicely to pass up!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling
>>> the
>>>>>> vote.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your voting proposal makes sense!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <
>>>>>>> iemejia@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> V9.2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject
>>>> and it
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> great
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see the final selection.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma
>> and
>>>>>>> everyone!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ismaël
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong <
>>>>>>>>>> fokko@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Oscar,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active
>> in
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> conversation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around the new logo, but I followed it from the
>>>>>> sideline.
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logos are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the pigeon, especially the one
>> with
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> envelope!
>>>>>>>>>>> My
>>>>>>>>>>>>> vote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative
>>>> version
>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, Fokko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra
>>> van
>>>>>>> Holthe -
>>>>>>>>>> Kind
>>>>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The past month, there has been new progress
>> on
>>>> our
>>>>>>> search
>>>>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo (
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AVRO-3554 <
>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
>>>>>>>>>>> ).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given,
>>> we
>>>> can
>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>> proceed
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vote on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the matter.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These are the finalists to choose from (if
>> the
>>>> image
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> unreadable,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> links to the comment where the finalists are
>>>>>>> announced):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts
>>> longer
>>>>>> than a
>>>>>>>>>> typical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> release,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rules deviate from the usual rules
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - the vote lasts 2 weeks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - to avoid confusion, please vote with the
>>>> V...
>>>>>>>>>> ifentifier:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> V9.2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> V10.2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   V11.2, V3.1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - the winner is the logo with at least two
>>> (2)
>>>>>> votes
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   runner-up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote
>> by
>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>>>> majority
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   top picks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please vote for your preference!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oscar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
>>>> opwvhk@apache.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Blue
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tabular
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
>> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> David M. Carr
>>>>> david@carrclan.us
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Best regards / Met vriendelijke groeten,
>>> 
>>> Niels Basjes
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>

-- 
Daniel Kulp
dkulp@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
Qlik - https://qlik.com <https://qlik.com/>

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>]

Hi all,

TL;DR: if you haven't voted yet, please do so!

As Emma has shown that an upwards angle change for V9.2 doesn't work, I
think we should drop that version from the vote.

This means, with the (binding) votes so far, that the result is a tie:

   - V9.2: 2 votes
   - V3.1: 2 votes

Note: not everyone who voted the first round has voted again.

*So if you have an opinion on the Avro logo, please vote!*

On a side note: when I count all votes, there is no tie (there's an extra
vote for v3.1). So if there are no additional votes, we can still have a
result.


Kind regards,
Oscar


On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 16:42, Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Oops! I realized there is a typo in my last message. I wrote that V3.2 is a
> finalist (the pigeon without the outlines) instead of V3.1 as a finalist
> (the pigeon with the outlines), my mistake!
> The finalists are V9.2 (or V11.2 if you prefer upwards) and V3.1
> Apologies for the confusion!
>
> All the best,
> Emma
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 9:46 AM Niels Basjes <Ni...@basjes.nl> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I had a good look at the logos and the pigeon version (v3.2 without the
> > line around it) has my preference.
> > That said I'm totally fine if we use the v9.2 which also looks awesome.
> >
> > Niels
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 2:37 PM Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
> >
> > > All of this is amazing -- it's really awesome for me to hear your
> > > thought processes and arguments for the design.  I think we're pretty
> > > lucky to have this insight!  My apologies for the delay, I just got
> > > back from a vacation following the conference :D
> > >
> > > I wish I had better expressed the positive sentiment we got for the
> > > designs when I was showing them off in person. I passed along the
> > > suggestions because they were interesting, but definitely NOT
> > > presented as mandatory. There will be ZERO hard feelings if we make
> > > our own decision!
> > >
> > > I didn't say it in the first mail, but my subjective opinion is to
> > > *disagree* with changing the airplane angle upwards.  Paper airplanes
> > > that travel well *coast* easily (like Avro data).
> > >
> > > I maintain my v9.2 vote!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 6:59 AM David M. Carr <da...@carrclan.us>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Great work on these, Emma.  My preference is for V3.2.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 2:37 PM Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here <
> > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to visually
> capture
> > > the
> > > > > suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.
> > > > >
> > > > > I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle of the
> plane
> > > logo
> > > > > is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem is that
> the
> > > blobby
> > > > > bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when adjusted to
> > > this new
> > > > > angle and make the design less clean and even less obvious as to
> what
> > > the
> > > > > icon is, which is why in the original upward design V11.2 I didn't
> > add
> > > any
> > > > > underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more abstract
> > > representation
> > > > > of the plane icon.
> > > > >
> > > > > I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just rotate the V9.2
> > > design
> > > > > to an upward angle with no other changes. This also doesn't work,
> > > because
> > > > > the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation and the
> > > underside of
> > > > > the plane isn't right for this angle.
> > > > >
> > > > > To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that it was
> valid
> > > and
> > > > > made sense that the marketing booth preferred the upward-angle
> > design.
> > > When
> > > > > I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward angle was
> > better
> > > > > than the other designs, what I meant to do was just validate that
> it
> > > was
> > > > > okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's hard about
> > > design
> > > > > is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their own unique
> > > opinions
> > > > > on what looks better.
> > > > >
> > > > > But again, I want to make sure that the logo is something that the
> > > *Avro
> > > > > community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the passing
> > > subjective
> > > > > preference of the marketing and publicity office at the Community
> > Over
> > > Code
> > > > > conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which is taking
> away
> > > from
> > > > > the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I would just
> like
> > to
> > > > > encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in the final
> > vote,
> > > > > because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen will
> ultimately
> > > be
> > > > > what represents Avro the project, and you as the contributors, not
> > the
> > > > > marketing and publicity office.
> > > > >
> > > > > To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional revisions
> of
> > > the
> > > > > icons themselves in the future, so the options for the logos will
> be
> > > V9.2
> > > > > (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will be
> uploading
> > > some
> > > > > revisions for the font used in the final design (once a winner is
> > > chosen)
> > > > > to see if there is a better alternative on that front, but
> otherwise,
> > > the
> > > > > icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks again for all
> > your
> > > > > patience and feedback throughout the process!
> > > > >
> > > > > All my best,
> > > > >
> > > > > Emma
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <fokko@apache.org
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Great work again!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons
> > for
> > > > > logos
> > > > > > > should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to
> > > convey the
> > > > > > > desired image
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes a lot of
> > > sense to
> > > > > > me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides the
> underside:
> > > this
> > > > > > > makes the plane look incomplete.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane (which I like
> > as
> > > a
> > > > > > reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and the paper
> > > plane
> > > > > are
> > > > > > awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while the pigeon
> > > might
> > > > > > bring up IP over Avian Carriers
> > > > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > Fokko
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> Kind <
> > > > > > opwvhk@apache.org>:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as better
> than
> > > V11.2,
> > > > > > > despite being angled downward. This is, I believe, because the
> > > angle of
> > > > > > > V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look
> incomplete.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1 otherwise.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and
> vote!
> > I
> > > > > wanted
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally
> influenced
> > > the
> > > > > > > initial
> > > > > > > > vote in any way!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the
> > suggestions
> > > > > Ryan
> > > > > > > > received at the Community Over Code conference and Oscar's
> > > suggestion
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > another possible upwards variant.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties
> into
> > > the
> > > > > > first
> > > > > > > > point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and
> publicity
> > > > > office.
> > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition that the
> > > upward
> > > > > > > design
> > > > > > > > of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think
> > that's
> > > > > valid
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest we use
> > the
> > > > > 11.2
> > > > > > > > design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some slight
> > > > > > adjustments
> > > > > > > > to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I am a
> > > little
> > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2 design did
> > not
> > > > > beat
> > > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of
> > > voting, and
> > > > > > > > ultimately I would like the final logo to be something that
> the
> > > > > > community
> > > > > > > > as a whole loves and agrees upon!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT Mono
> font
> > > > > being a
> > > > > > > > little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only
> serifed
> > > > > letter.
> > > > > > > > This is something I didn't notice before but they are right!
> I
> > > > > actually
> > > > > > > > already have five other fonts on the backburner that I tried
> > > when I
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > > drafting the original design versions but I personally liked
> > the
> > > PT
> > > > > > Mono
> > > > > > > > font the best so gave that as the only option (which in
> > hindsight
> > > > > might
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > have been the best choice). What I can do is once the final
> > icon
> > > is
> > > > > > > chosen
> > > > > > > > as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can draft
> up a
> > > few
> > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > versions with the alternate font choices and we can decide if
> > > one of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > other fonts will work better in the long run.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the marketing
> and
> > > > > > publicity
> > > > > > > > office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue, I
> have
> > > to
> > > > > > > > respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of dark
> > > blue in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it would be
> > > > > difficult
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it would be
> > > > > impossible
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic
> design,
> > > icons
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible
> design
> > > to
> > > > > > convey
> > > > > > > > the desired image. As an example of this, think of Apple's
> > logo,
> > > > > which
> > > > > > > is a
> > > > > > > > simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit
> that
> > if
> > > > > Apple
> > > > > > > > wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as
> > effective.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments to
> the
> > > fonts
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so excited to
> > see
> > > > > which
> > > > > > > > design will be the final winner in the end! :D
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All my best,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Emma
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> > Kind <
> > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within 6
> > > hours),
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > These are the votes:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    - V9.2: 3 votes
> > > > > > > > >    - V10.2: 1 vote
> > > > > > > > >    - V11.2: 0 votes
> > > > > > > > >    - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the
> V3.1
> > > > > variant
> > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > >    part of the vote)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between
> V9.2
> > > and
> > > > > > V3.1.
> > > > > > > > > (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than
> > > enough)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create a
> > > good
> > > > > > > version
> > > > > > > > > flying
> > > > > > > > > slightly upward
> > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > instead
> > > > > > > > > of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her
> good
> > > > > > judgement
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > determine if that's really an improvement.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon
> > V3.1?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote,
> but
> > > I had
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office
> > > hours
> > > > > > during
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > community over Code conference. They had some pretty
> > specific
> > > > > > > > suggestions
> > > > > > > > > > (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I
> > just
> > > want
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > capture them here!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > > > > > > > > > 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the
> r
> > > has
> > > > > > serifs
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > the others don't.
> > > > > > > > > > 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the
> > word
> > > Avro
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > plane's dark blue!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice
> > > things
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > initiative!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any
> > > adjustments
> > > > > > > after
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current
> > > logos
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > leaving
> > > > > > > > > > any changes to Emma's discretion!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > All my bets Ryan
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <bl...@tabular.io>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > My vote is for 10.2.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe
> -
> > > Kind <
> > > > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It
> > looks
> > > > > good,
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > very distinctive.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > And it's completely different from any send icon, so
> it
> > > > > cannot
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > conflated
> > > > > > > > > > > > with a message protocol icon.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > My vote is for V3.1
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <opwvhk@apache.org
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <
> > > ryan@skraba.com
> > > > > >:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go
> > with
> > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > -- I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper
> > plane
> > > > > fits
> > > > > > > too
> > > > > > > > > > > > > nicely to pass up!
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling
> > the
> > > > > vote.
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > > > > > your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ryan
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <
> > > > > > iemejia@gmail.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject
> > > and it
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > great
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > see the final selection.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma
> and
> > > > > > everyone!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ismaël
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong <
> > > > > > > > > fokko@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Oscar,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active
> in
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > conversation
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around the new logo, but I followed it from the
> > > > > sideline.
> > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > > > logos are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really like the pigeon, especially the one
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > > > envelope!
> > > > > > > > > > My
> > > > > > > > > > > > vote
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative
> > > version
> > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra
> > van
> > > > > > Holthe -
> > > > > > > > > Kind
> > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The past month, there has been new progress
> on
> > > our
> > > > > > search
> > > > > > > > > for a
> > > > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > > > logo (
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AVRO-3554 <
> > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> > > > > > > > > >).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given,
> > we
> > > can
> > > > > > now
> > > > > > > > > > proceed
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > vote on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the matter.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These are the finalists to choose from (if
> the
> > > image
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > unreadable,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > links to the comment where the finalists are
> > > > > > announced):
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts
> > longer
> > > > > than a
> > > > > > > > > typical
> > > > > > > > > > > > > release,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - to avoid confusion, please vote with the
> > > V...
> > > > > > > > > ifentifier:
> > > > > > > > > > > > V9.2,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > V10.2,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    V11.2, V3.1
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - the winner is the logo with at least two
> > (2)
> > > > > votes
> > > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    runner-up
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote
> by
> > > > > simple
> > > > > > > > > majority
> > > > > > > > > > > > > between the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    top picks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please vote for your preference!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > opwvhk@apache.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > Ryan Blue
> > > > > > > > > > > Tabular
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> oscar@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > David M. Carr
> > > > david@carrclan.us
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best regards / Met vriendelijke groeten,
> >
> > Niels Basjes
> >
>


-- 

✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Emma K <em...@gmail.com>]

Oops! I realized there is a typo in my last message. I wrote that V3.2 is a
finalist (the pigeon without the outlines) instead of V3.1 as a finalist
(the pigeon with the outlines), my mistake!
The finalists are V9.2 (or V11.2 if you prefer upwards) and V3.1
Apologies for the confusion!

All the best,
Emma


On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 9:46 AM Niels Basjes <Ni...@basjes.nl> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I had a good look at the logos and the pigeon version (v3.2 without the
> line around it) has my preference.
> That said I'm totally fine if we use the v9.2 which also looks awesome.
>
> Niels
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 2:37 PM Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
>
> > All of this is amazing -- it's really awesome for me to hear your
> > thought processes and arguments for the design.  I think we're pretty
> > lucky to have this insight!  My apologies for the delay, I just got
> > back from a vacation following the conference :D
> >
> > I wish I had better expressed the positive sentiment we got for the
> > designs when I was showing them off in person. I passed along the
> > suggestions because they were interesting, but definitely NOT
> > presented as mandatory. There will be ZERO hard feelings if we make
> > our own decision!
> >
> > I didn't say it in the first mail, but my subjective opinion is to
> > *disagree* with changing the airplane angle upwards.  Paper airplanes
> > that travel well *coast* easily (like Avro data).
> >
> > I maintain my v9.2 vote!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 6:59 AM David M. Carr <da...@carrclan.us> wrote:
> > >
> > > Great work on these, Emma.  My preference is for V3.2.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 2:37 PM Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here <
> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to visually capture
> > the
> > > > suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.
> > > >
> > > > I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle of the plane
> > logo
> > > > is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem is that the
> > blobby
> > > > bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when adjusted to
> > this new
> > > > angle and make the design less clean and even less obvious as to what
> > the
> > > > icon is, which is why in the original upward design V11.2 I didn't
> add
> > any
> > > > underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more abstract
> > representation
> > > > of the plane icon.
> > > >
> > > > I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just rotate the V9.2
> > design
> > > > to an upward angle with no other changes. This also doesn't work,
> > because
> > > > the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation and the
> > underside of
> > > > the plane isn't right for this angle.
> > > >
> > > > To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that it was valid
> > and
> > > > made sense that the marketing booth preferred the upward-angle
> design.
> > When
> > > > I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward angle was
> better
> > > > than the other designs, what I meant to do was just validate that it
> > was
> > > > okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's hard about
> > design
> > > > is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their own unique
> > opinions
> > > > on what looks better.
> > > >
> > > > But again, I want to make sure that the logo is something that the
> > *Avro
> > > > community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the passing
> > subjective
> > > > preference of the marketing and publicity office at the Community
> Over
> > Code
> > > > conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which is taking away
> > from
> > > > the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I would just like
> to
> > > > encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in the final
> vote,
> > > > because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen will ultimately
> > be
> > > > what represents Avro the project, and you as the contributors, not
> the
> > > > marketing and publicity office.
> > > >
> > > > To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional revisions of
> > the
> > > > icons themselves in the future, so the options for the logos will be
> > V9.2
> > > > (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will be uploading
> > some
> > > > revisions for the font used in the final design (once a winner is
> > chosen)
> > > > to see if there is a better alternative on that front, but otherwise,
> > the
> > > > icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks again for all
> your
> > > > patience and feedback throughout the process!
> > > >
> > > > All my best,
> > > >
> > > > Emma
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <fo...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Great work again!
> > > > >
> > > > > > Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons
> for
> > > > logos
> > > > > > should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to
> > convey the
> > > > > > desired image
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes a lot of
> > sense to
> > > > > me.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides the underside:
> > this
> > > > > > makes the plane look incomplete.
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane (which I like
> as
> > a
> > > > > reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and the paper
> > plane
> > > > are
> > > > > awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while the pigeon
> > might
> > > > > bring up IP over Avian Carriers
> > > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > Fokko
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > opwvhk@apache.org>:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as better than
> > V11.2,
> > > > > > despite being angled downward. This is, I believe, because the
> > angle of
> > > > > > V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look incomplete.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1 otherwise.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and vote!
> I
> > > > wanted
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally influenced
> > the
> > > > > > initial
> > > > > > > vote in any way!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the
> suggestions
> > > > Ryan
> > > > > > > received at the Community Over Code conference and Oscar's
> > suggestion
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > another possible upwards variant.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties into
> > the
> > > > > first
> > > > > > > point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and publicity
> > > > office.
> > > > > If
> > > > > > > we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition that the
> > upward
> > > > > > design
> > > > > > > of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think
> that's
> > > > valid
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest we use
> the
> > > > 11.2
> > > > > > > design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some slight
> > > > > adjustments
> > > > > > > to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I am a
> > little
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2 design did
> not
> > > > beat
> > > > > > out
> > > > > > > or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of
> > voting, and
> > > > > > > ultimately I would like the final logo to be something that the
> > > > > community
> > > > > > > as a whole loves and agrees upon!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT Mono font
> > > > being a
> > > > > > > little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only serifed
> > > > letter.
> > > > > > > This is something I didn't notice before but they are right! I
> > > > actually
> > > > > > > already have five other fonts on the backburner that I tried
> > when I
> > > > was
> > > > > > > drafting the original design versions but I personally liked
> the
> > PT
> > > > > Mono
> > > > > > > font the best so gave that as the only option (which in
> hindsight
> > > > might
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > have been the best choice). What I can do is once the final
> icon
> > is
> > > > > > chosen
> > > > > > > as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can draft up a
> > few
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > versions with the alternate font choices and we can decide if
> > one of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > other fonts will work better in the long run.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the marketing and
> > > > > publicity
> > > > > > > office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue, I have
> > to
> > > > > > > respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of dark
> > blue in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it would be
> > > > difficult
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it would be
> > > > impossible
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design,
> > icons
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible design
> > to
> > > > > convey
> > > > > > > the desired image. As an example of this, think of Apple's
> logo,
> > > > which
> > > > > > is a
> > > > > > > simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit that
> if
> > > > Apple
> > > > > > > wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as
> effective.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments to the
> > fonts
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so excited to
> see
> > > > which
> > > > > > > design will be the final winner in the end! :D
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All my best,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Emma
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> Kind <
> > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within 6
> > hours),
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > These are the votes:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    - V9.2: 3 votes
> > > > > > > >    - V10.2: 1 vote
> > > > > > > >    - V11.2: 0 votes
> > > > > > > >    - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the V3.1
> > > > variant
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > >    part of the vote)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between V9.2
> > and
> > > > > V3.1.
> > > > > > > > (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than
> > enough)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create a
> > good
> > > > > > version
> > > > > > > > flying
> > > > > > > > slightly upward
> > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > instead
> > > > > > > > of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her good
> > > > > judgement
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > determine if that's really an improvement.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon
> V3.1?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote, but
> > I had
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office
> > hours
> > > > > during
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > community over Code conference. They had some pretty
> specific
> > > > > > > suggestions
> > > > > > > > > (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I
> just
> > want
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > capture them here!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > > > > > > > > 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the r
> > has
> > > > > serifs
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > the others don't.
> > > > > > > > > 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the
> word
> > Avro
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > plane's dark blue!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice
> > things
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > initiative!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any
> > adjustments
> > > > > > after
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current
> > logos
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > leaving
> > > > > > > > > any changes to Emma's discretion!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > All my bets Ryan
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <bl...@tabular.io>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > My vote is for 10.2.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> > Kind <
> > > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It
> looks
> > > > good,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > very distinctive.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > And it's completely different from any send icon, so it
> > > > cannot
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > conflated
> > > > > > > > > > > with a message protocol icon.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > My vote is for V3.1
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <op...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <
> > ryan@skraba.com
> > > > >:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go
> with
> > > > V9.2
> > > > > > -- I
> > > > > > > > > > > > really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper
> plane
> > > > fits
> > > > > > too
> > > > > > > > > > > > nicely to pass up!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling
> the
> > > > vote.
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > > > > your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ryan
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <
> > > > > iemejia@gmail.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject
> > and it
> > > > is
> > > > > > > great
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > see the final selection.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma and
> > > > > everyone!
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ismaël
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong <
> > > > > > > > fokko@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Oscar,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active in
> > the
> > > > > > > > conversation
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > around the new logo, but I followed it from the
> > > > sideline.
> > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > > logos are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really like the pigeon, especially the one with
> > the
> > > > > > > envelope!
> > > > > > > > > My
> > > > > > > > > > > vote
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative
> > version
> > > > > :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra
> van
> > > > > Holthe -
> > > > > > > > Kind
> > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The past month, there has been new progress on
> > our
> > > > > search
> > > > > > > > for a
> > > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > > logo (
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AVRO-3554 <
> > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> > > > > > > > >).
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given,
> we
> > can
> > > > > now
> > > > > > > > > proceed
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > vote on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the matter.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These are the finalists to choose from (if the
> > image
> > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > unreadable,
> > > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > links to the comment where the finalists are
> > > > > announced):
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts
> longer
> > > > than a
> > > > > > > > typical
> > > > > > > > > > > > release,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - to avoid confusion, please vote with the
> > V...
> > > > > > > > ifentifier:
> > > > > > > > > > > V9.2,
> > > > > > > > > > > > V10.2,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    V11.2, V3.1
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - the winner is the logo with at least two
> (2)
> > > > votes
> > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    runner-up
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote by
> > > > simple
> > > > > > > > majority
> > > > > > > > > > > > between the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    top picks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please vote for your preference!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > opwvhk@apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > Ryan Blue
> > > > > > > > > > Tabular
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > David M. Carr
> > > david@carrclan.us
> >
>
>
> --
> Best regards / Met vriendelijke groeten,
>
> Niels Basjes
>

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Niels Basjes <Ni...@basjes.nl>]

Hi,

I had a good look at the logos and the pigeon version (v3.2 without the
line around it) has my preference.
That said I'm totally fine if we use the v9.2 which also looks awesome.

Niels

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 2:37 PM Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:

> All of this is amazing -- it's really awesome for me to hear your
> thought processes and arguments for the design.  I think we're pretty
> lucky to have this insight!  My apologies for the delay, I just got
> back from a vacation following the conference :D
>
> I wish I had better expressed the positive sentiment we got for the
> designs when I was showing them off in person. I passed along the
> suggestions because they were interesting, but definitely NOT
> presented as mandatory. There will be ZERO hard feelings if we make
> our own decision!
>
> I didn't say it in the first mail, but my subjective opinion is to
> *disagree* with changing the airplane angle upwards.  Paper airplanes
> that travel well *coast* easily (like Avro data).
>
> I maintain my v9.2 vote!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 6:59 AM David M. Carr <da...@carrclan.us> wrote:
> >
> > Great work on these, Emma.  My preference is for V3.2.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 2:37 PM Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here <
> > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to visually capture
> the
> > > suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.
> > >
> > > I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle of the plane
> logo
> > > is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem is that the
> blobby
> > > bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when adjusted to
> this new
> > > angle and make the design less clean and even less obvious as to what
> the
> > > icon is, which is why in the original upward design V11.2 I didn't add
> any
> > > underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more abstract
> representation
> > > of the plane icon.
> > >
> > > I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just rotate the V9.2
> design
> > > to an upward angle with no other changes. This also doesn't work,
> because
> > > the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation and the
> underside of
> > > the plane isn't right for this angle.
> > >
> > > To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that it was valid
> and
> > > made sense that the marketing booth preferred the upward-angle design.
> When
> > > I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward angle was better
> > > than the other designs, what I meant to do was just validate that it
> was
> > > okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's hard about
> design
> > > is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their own unique
> opinions
> > > on what looks better.
> > >
> > > But again, I want to make sure that the logo is something that the
> *Avro
> > > community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the passing
> subjective
> > > preference of the marketing and publicity office at the Community Over
> Code
> > > conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which is taking away
> from
> > > the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I would just like to
> > > encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in the final vote,
> > > because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen will ultimately
> be
> > > what represents Avro the project, and you as the contributors, not the
> > > marketing and publicity office.
> > >
> > > To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional revisions of
> the
> > > icons themselves in the future, so the options for the logos will be
> V9.2
> > > (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will be uploading
> some
> > > revisions for the font used in the final design (once a winner is
> chosen)
> > > to see if there is a better alternative on that front, but otherwise,
> the
> > > icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks again for all your
> > > patience and feedback throughout the process!
> > >
> > > All my best,
> > >
> > > Emma
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <fo...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Great work again!
> > > >
> > > > > Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons for
> > > logos
> > > > > should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to
> convey the
> > > > > desired image
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes a lot of
> sense to
> > > > me.
> > > >
> > > > This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides the underside:
> this
> > > > > makes the plane look incomplete.
> > > >
> > > > I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane (which I like as
> a
> > > > reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and the paper
> plane
> > > are
> > > > awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while the pigeon
> might
> > > > bring up IP over Avian Carriers
> > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>.
> > > >
> > > > I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well.
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > > Fokko
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > opwvhk@apache.org>:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as better than
> V11.2,
> > > > > despite being angled downward. This is, I believe, because the
> angle of
> > > > > V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look incomplete.
> > > > >
> > > > > My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1 otherwise.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > Oscar
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <em...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and vote! I
> > > wanted
> > > > > to
> > > > > > refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally influenced
> the
> > > > > initial
> > > > > > vote in any way!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the suggestions
> > > Ryan
> > > > > > received at the Community Over Code conference and Oscar's
> suggestion
> > > > of
> > > > > > another possible upwards variant.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties into
> the
> > > > first
> > > > > > point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and publicity
> > > office.
> > > > If
> > > > > > we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition that the
> upward
> > > > > design
> > > > > > of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think that's
> > > valid
> > > > > and
> > > > > > makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest we use the
> > > 11.2
> > > > > > design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some slight
> > > > adjustments
> > > > > > to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I am a
> little
> > > > more
> > > > > > hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2 design did not
> > > beat
> > > > > out
> > > > > > or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of
> voting, and
> > > > > > ultimately I would like the final logo to be something that the
> > > > community
> > > > > > as a whole loves and agrees upon!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT Mono font
> > > being a
> > > > > > little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only serifed
> > > letter.
> > > > > > This is something I didn't notice before but they are right! I
> > > actually
> > > > > > already have five other fonts on the backburner that I tried
> when I
> > > was
> > > > > > drafting the original design versions but I personally liked the
> PT
> > > > Mono
> > > > > > font the best so gave that as the only option (which in hindsight
> > > might
> > > > > not
> > > > > > have been the best choice). What I can do is once the final icon
> is
> > > > > chosen
> > > > > > as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can draft up a
> few
> > > > more
> > > > > > versions with the alternate font choices and we can decide if
> one of
> > > > the
> > > > > > other fonts will work better in the long run.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the marketing and
> > > > publicity
> > > > > > office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue, I have
> to
> > > > > > respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of dark
> blue in
> > > > the
> > > > > > plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it would be
> > > difficult
> > > > to
> > > > > > read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it would be
> > > impossible
> > > > > to
> > > > > > parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design,
> icons
> > > > for
> > > > > > logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible design
> to
> > > > convey
> > > > > > the desired image. As an example of this, think of Apple's logo,
> > > which
> > > > > is a
> > > > > > simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit that if
> > > Apple
> > > > > > wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as effective.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments to the
> fonts
> > > > and
> > > > > > the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so excited to see
> > > which
> > > > > > design will be the final winner in the end! :D
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All my best,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Emma
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within 6
> hours),
> > > > and
> > > > > > no
> > > > > > > non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > These are the votes:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    - V9.2: 3 votes
> > > > > > >    - V10.2: 1 vote
> > > > > > >    - V11.2: 0 votes
> > > > > > >    - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the V3.1
> > > variant
> > > > > was
> > > > > > >    part of the vote)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between V9.2
> and
> > > > V3.1.
> > > > > > > (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than
> enough)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create a
> good
> > > > > version
> > > > > > > flying
> > > > > > > slightly upward
> > > > > > > <
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > instead
> > > > > > > of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her good
> > > > judgement
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > determine if that's really an improvement.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon V3.1?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote, but
> I had
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office
> hours
> > > > during
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > community over Code conference. They had some pretty specific
> > > > > > suggestions
> > > > > > > > (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I just
> want
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > capture them here!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > > > > > > > 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the r
> has
> > > > serifs
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > the others don't.
> > > > > > > > 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the word
> Avro
> > > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > plane's dark blue!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice
> things
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > initiative!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any
> adjustments
> > > > > after
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current
> logos
> > > and
> > > > > > > leaving
> > > > > > > > any changes to Emma's discretion!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All my bets Ryan
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <bl...@tabular.io>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My vote is for 10.2.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> Kind <
> > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It looks
> > > good,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > very distinctive.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > And it's completely different from any send icon, so it
> > > cannot
> > > > be
> > > > > > > > > conflated
> > > > > > > > > > with a message protocol icon.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > My vote is for V3.1
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <op...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <
> ryan@skraba.com
> > > >:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go with
> > > V9.2
> > > > > -- I
> > > > > > > > > > > really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper plane
> > > fits
> > > > > too
> > > > > > > > > > > nicely to pass up!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling the
> > > vote.
> > > > I
> > > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > > > your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Ryan
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <
> > > > iemejia@gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject
> and it
> > > is
> > > > > > great
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > see the final selection.
> > > > > > > > > > > > It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma and
> > > > everyone!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ismaël
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong <
> > > > > > > fokko@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Oscar,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active in
> the
> > > > > > > conversation
> > > > > > > > > > > > > around the new logo, but I followed it from the
> > > sideline.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > logos are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I really like the pigeon, especially the one with
> the
> > > > > > envelope!
> > > > > > > > My
> > > > > > > > > > vote
> > > > > > > > > > > > > goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative
> version
> > > > :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra van
> > > > Holthe -
> > > > > > > Kind
> > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The past month, there has been new progress on
> our
> > > > search
> > > > > > > for a
> > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > logo (
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > AVRO-3554 <
> > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> > > > > > > >).
> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given, we
> can
> > > > now
> > > > > > > > proceed
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > vote on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the matter.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > These are the finalists to choose from (if the
> image
> > > is
> > > > > > > > > unreadable,
> > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > links to the comment where the finalists are
> > > > announced):
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts longer
> > > than a
> > > > > > > typical
> > > > > > > > > > > release,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - to avoid confusion, please vote with the
> V...
> > > > > > > ifentifier:
> > > > > > > > > > V9.2,
> > > > > > > > > > > V10.2,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >    V11.2, V3.1
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - the winner is the logo with at least two (2)
> > > votes
> > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >    runner-up
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >    - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote by
> > > simple
> > > > > > > majority
> > > > > > > > > > > between the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >    top picks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please vote for your preference!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> opwvhk@apache.org
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > Ryan Blue
> > > > > > > > > Tabular
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > David M. Carr
> > david@carrclan.us
>


-- 
Best regards / Met vriendelijke groeten,

Niels Basjes

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>]

All of this is amazing -- it's really awesome for me to hear your
thought processes and arguments for the design.  I think we're pretty
lucky to have this insight!  My apologies for the delay, I just got
back from a vacation following the conference :D

I wish I had better expressed the positive sentiment we got for the
designs when I was showing them off in person. I passed along the
suggestions because they were interesting, but definitely NOT
presented as mandatory. There will be ZERO hard feelings if we make
our own decision!

I didn't say it in the first mail, but my subjective opinion is to
*disagree* with changing the airplane angle upwards.  Paper airplanes
that travel well *coast* easily (like Avro data).

I maintain my v9.2 vote!







On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 6:59 AM David M. Carr <da...@carrclan.us> wrote:
>
> Great work on these, Emma.  My preference is for V3.2.
>
> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 2:37 PM Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here <
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to visually capture the
> > suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.
> >
> > I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle of the plane logo
> > is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem is that the blobby
> > bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when adjusted to this new
> > angle and make the design less clean and even less obvious as to what the
> > icon is, which is why in the original upward design V11.2 I didn't add any
> > underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more abstract representation
> > of the plane icon.
> >
> > I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just rotate the V9.2 design
> > to an upward angle with no other changes. This also doesn't work, because
> > the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation and the underside of
> > the plane isn't right for this angle.
> >
> > To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that it was valid and
> > made sense that the marketing booth preferred the upward-angle design. When
> > I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward angle was better
> > than the other designs, what I meant to do was just validate that it was
> > okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's hard about design
> > is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their own unique opinions
> > on what looks better.
> >
> > But again, I want to make sure that the logo is something that the *Avro
> > community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the passing subjective
> > preference of the marketing and publicity office at the Community Over Code
> > conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which is taking away from
> > the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I would just like to
> > encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in the final vote,
> > because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen will ultimately be
> > what represents Avro the project, and you as the contributors, not the
> > marketing and publicity office.
> >
> > To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional revisions of the
> > icons themselves in the future, so the options for the logos will be V9.2
> > (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will be uploading some
> > revisions for the font used in the final design (once a winner is chosen)
> > to see if there is a better alternative on that front, but otherwise, the
> > icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks again for all your
> > patience and feedback throughout the process!
> >
> > All my best,
> >
> > Emma
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <fo...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Great work again!
> > >
> > > > Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons for
> > logos
> > > > should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to convey the
> > > > desired image
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes a lot of sense to
> > > me.
> > >
> > > This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides the underside: this
> > > > makes the plane look incomplete.
> > >
> > > I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane (which I like as a
> > > reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and the paper plane
> > are
> > > awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while the pigeon might
> > > bring up IP over Avian Carriers
> > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>.
> > >
> > > I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well.
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Fokko
> > >
> > >
> > > Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > opwvhk@apache.org>:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as better than V11.2,
> > > > despite being angled downward. This is, I believe, because the angle of
> > > > V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look incomplete.
> > > >
> > > > My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1 otherwise.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > > Oscar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and vote! I
> > wanted
> > > > to
> > > > > refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally influenced the
> > > > initial
> > > > > vote in any way!
> > > > >
> > > > > Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the suggestions
> > Ryan
> > > > > received at the Community Over Code conference and Oscar's suggestion
> > > of
> > > > > another possible upwards variant.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties into the
> > > first
> > > > > point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and publicity
> > office.
> > > If
> > > > > we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition that the upward
> > > > design
> > > > > of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think that's
> > valid
> > > > and
> > > > > makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest we use the
> > 11.2
> > > > > design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some slight
> > > adjustments
> > > > > to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I am a little
> > > more
> > > > > hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2 design did not
> > beat
> > > > out
> > > > > or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of voting, and
> > > > > ultimately I would like the final logo to be something that the
> > > community
> > > > > as a whole loves and agrees upon!
> > > > >
> > > > > The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT Mono font
> > being a
> > > > > little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only serifed
> > letter.
> > > > > This is something I didn't notice before but they are right! I
> > actually
> > > > > already have five other fonts on the backburner that I tried when I
> > was
> > > > > drafting the original design versions but I personally liked the PT
> > > Mono
> > > > > font the best so gave that as the only option (which in hindsight
> > might
> > > > not
> > > > > have been the best choice). What I can do is once the final icon is
> > > > chosen
> > > > > as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can draft up a few
> > > more
> > > > > versions with the alternate font choices and we can decide if one of
> > > the
> > > > > other fonts will work better in the long run.
> > > > >
> > > > > Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the marketing and
> > > publicity
> > > > > office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue, I have to
> > > > > respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of dark blue in
> > > the
> > > > > plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it would be
> > difficult
> > > to
> > > > > read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it would be
> > impossible
> > > > to
> > > > > parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons
> > > for
> > > > > logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to
> > > convey
> > > > > the desired image. As an example of this, think of Apple's logo,
> > which
> > > > is a
> > > > > simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit that if
> > Apple
> > > > > wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as effective.
> > > > >
> > > > > That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments to the fonts
> > > and
> > > > > the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so excited to see
> > which
> > > > > design will be the final winner in the end! :D
> > > > >
> > > > > All my best,
> > > > >
> > > > > Emma
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within 6 hours),
> > > and
> > > > > no
> > > > > > non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > These are the votes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    - V9.2: 3 votes
> > > > > >    - V10.2: 1 vote
> > > > > >    - V11.2: 0 votes
> > > > > >    - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the V3.1
> > variant
> > > > was
> > > > > >    part of the vote)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between V9.2 and
> > > V3.1.
> > > > > > (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than enough)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create a good
> > > > version
> > > > > > flying
> > > > > > slightly upward
> > > > > > <
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > instead
> > > > > > of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her good
> > > judgement
> > > > > to
> > > > > > determine if that's really an improvement.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon V3.1?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote, but I had
> > > the
> > > > > > > opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office hours
> > > during
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > community over Code conference. They had some pretty specific
> > > > > suggestions
> > > > > > > (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I just want
> > > to
> > > > > > > capture them here!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > > > > > > 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the r has
> > > serifs
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > the others don't.
> > > > > > > 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the word Avro
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > plane's dark blue!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice things
> > > > about
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > initiative!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any adjustments
> > > > after
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current logos
> > and
> > > > > > leaving
> > > > > > > any changes to Emma's discretion!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All my bets Ryan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <bl...@tabular.io> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My vote is for 10.2.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It looks
> > good,
> > > > and
> > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > very distinctive.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And it's completely different from any send icon, so it
> > cannot
> > > be
> > > > > > > > conflated
> > > > > > > > > with a message protocol icon.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My vote is for V3.1
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <op...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <ryan@skraba.com
> > >:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go with
> > V9.2
> > > > -- I
> > > > > > > > > > really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper plane
> > fits
> > > > too
> > > > > > > > > > nicely to pass up!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling the
> > vote.
> > > I
> > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > > your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Ryan
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <
> > > iemejia@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject and it
> > is
> > > > > great
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > see the final selection.
> > > > > > > > > > > It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma and
> > > everyone!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Ismaël
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong <
> > > > > > fokko@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Oscar,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active in the
> > > > > > conversation
> > > > > > > > > > > > around the new logo, but I followed it from the
> > sideline.
> > > > The
> > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > logos are
> > > > > > > > > > > > fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I really like the pigeon, especially the one with the
> > > > > envelope!
> > > > > > > My
> > > > > > > > > vote
> > > > > > > > > > > > goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative version
> > > :)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra van
> > > Holthe -
> > > > > > Kind
> > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The past month, there has been new progress on our
> > > search
> > > > > > for a
> > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > logo (
> > > > > > > > > > > > > AVRO-3554 <
> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> > > > > > >).
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given, we can
> > > now
> > > > > > > proceed
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > vote on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the matter.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > These are the finalists to choose from (if the image
> > is
> > > > > > > > unreadable,
> > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > links to the comment where the finalists are
> > > announced):
> > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts longer
> > than a
> > > > > > typical
> > > > > > > > > > release,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >    - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > > > > > > > > > >    - to avoid confusion, please vote with the V...
> > > > > > ifentifier:
> > > > > > > > > V9.2,
> > > > > > > > > > V10.2,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >    V11.2, V3.1
> > > > > > > > > > > > >    - the winner is the logo with at least two (2)
> > votes
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > >    runner-up
> > > > > > > > > > > > >    - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote by
> > simple
> > > > > > majority
> > > > > > > > > > between the
> > > > > > > > > > > > >    top picks
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Please vote for your preference!
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <opwvhk@apache.org
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Ryan Blue
> > > > > > > > Tabular
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> David M. Carr
> david@carrclan.us

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

["David M. Carr" <da...@carrclan.us>]

Great work on these, Emma.  My preference is for V3.2.

On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 2:37 PM Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here <
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to visually capture the
> suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.
>
> I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle of the plane logo
> is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem is that the blobby
> bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when adjusted to this new
> angle and make the design less clean and even less obvious as to what the
> icon is, which is why in the original upward design V11.2 I didn't add any
> underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more abstract representation
> of the plane icon.
>
> I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just rotate the V9.2 design
> to an upward angle with no other changes. This also doesn't work, because
> the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation and the underside of
> the plane isn't right for this angle.
>
> To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that it was valid and
> made sense that the marketing booth preferred the upward-angle design. When
> I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward angle was better
> than the other designs, what I meant to do was just validate that it was
> okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's hard about design
> is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their own unique opinions
> on what looks better.
>
> But again, I want to make sure that the logo is something that the *Avro
> community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the passing subjective
> preference of the marketing and publicity office at the Community Over Code
> conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which is taking away from
> the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I would just like to
> encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in the final vote,
> because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen will ultimately be
> what represents Avro the project, and you as the contributors, not the
> marketing and publicity office.
>
> To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional revisions of the
> icons themselves in the future, so the options for the logos will be V9.2
> (or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will be uploading some
> revisions for the font used in the final design (once a winner is chosen)
> to see if there is a better alternative on that front, but otherwise, the
> icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks again for all your
> patience and feedback throughout the process!
>
> All my best,
>
> Emma
>
> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <fo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Great work again!
> >
> > > Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons for
> logos
> > > should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to convey the
> > > desired image
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes a lot of sense to
> > me.
> >
> > This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides the underside: this
> > > makes the plane look incomplete.
> >
> > I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane (which I like as a
> > reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and the paper plane
> are
> > awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while the pigeon might
> > bring up IP over Avian Carriers
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>.
> >
> > I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Fokko
> >
> >
> > Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > opwvhk@apache.org>:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as better than V11.2,
> > > despite being angled downward. This is, I believe, because the angle of
> > > V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look incomplete.
> > >
> > > My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1 otherwise.
> > >
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Oscar
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and vote! I
> wanted
> > > to
> > > > refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally influenced the
> > > initial
> > > > vote in any way!
> > > >
> > > > Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the suggestions
> Ryan
> > > > received at the Community Over Code conference and Oscar's suggestion
> > of
> > > > another possible upwards variant.
> > > >
> > > > I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties into the
> > first
> > > > point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and publicity
> office.
> > If
> > > > we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition that the upward
> > > design
> > > > of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think that's
> valid
> > > and
> > > > makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest we use the
> 11.2
> > > > design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some slight
> > adjustments
> > > > to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I am a little
> > more
> > > > hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2 design did not
> beat
> > > out
> > > > or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of voting, and
> > > > ultimately I would like the final logo to be something that the
> > community
> > > > as a whole loves and agrees upon!
> > > >
> > > > The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT Mono font
> being a
> > > > little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only serifed
> letter.
> > > > This is something I didn't notice before but they are right! I
> actually
> > > > already have five other fonts on the backburner that I tried when I
> was
> > > > drafting the original design versions but I personally liked the PT
> > Mono
> > > > font the best so gave that as the only option (which in hindsight
> might
> > > not
> > > > have been the best choice). What I can do is once the final icon is
> > > chosen
> > > > as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can draft up a few
> > more
> > > > versions with the alternate font choices and we can decide if one of
> > the
> > > > other fonts will work better in the long run.
> > > >
> > > > Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the marketing and
> > publicity
> > > > office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue, I have to
> > > > respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of dark blue in
> > the
> > > > plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it would be
> difficult
> > to
> > > > read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it would be
> impossible
> > > to
> > > > parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons
> > for
> > > > logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to
> > convey
> > > > the desired image. As an example of this, think of Apple's logo,
> which
> > > is a
> > > > simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit that if
> Apple
> > > > wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as effective.
> > > >
> > > > That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments to the fonts
> > and
> > > > the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so excited to see
> which
> > > > design will be the final winner in the end! :D
> > > >
> > > > All my best,
> > > >
> > > > Emma
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within 6 hours),
> > and
> > > > no
> > > > > non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1.
> > > > >
> > > > > These are the votes:
> > > > >
> > > > >    - V9.2: 3 votes
> > > > >    - V10.2: 1 vote
> > > > >    - V11.2: 0 votes
> > > > >    - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the V3.1
> variant
> > > was
> > > > >    part of the vote)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between V9.2 and
> > V3.1.
> > > > > (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than enough)
> > > > >
> > > > > Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create a good
> > > version
> > > > > flying
> > > > > slightly upward
> > > > > <
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> > > > > >
> > > > > instead
> > > > > of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her good
> > judgement
> > > > to
> > > > > determine if that's really an improvement.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon V3.1?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > Oscar
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote, but I had
> > the
> > > > > > opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office hours
> > during
> > > > the
> > > > > > community over Code conference. They had some pretty specific
> > > > suggestions
> > > > > > (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I just want
> > to
> > > > > > capture them here!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > > > > > 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the r has
> > serifs
> > > > and
> > > > > > the others don't.
> > > > > > 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the word Avro
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > plane's dark blue!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice things
> > > about
> > > > > the
> > > > > > initiative!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any adjustments
> > > after
> > > > > the
> > > > > > vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current logos
> and
> > > > > leaving
> > > > > > any changes to Emma's discretion!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All my bets Ryan
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <bl...@tabular.io> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > My vote is for 10.2.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It looks
> good,
> > > and
> > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > very distinctive.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And it's completely different from any send icon, so it
> cannot
> > be
> > > > > > > conflated
> > > > > > > > with a message protocol icon.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My vote is for V3.1
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <op...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <ryan@skraba.com
> >:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go with
> V9.2
> > > -- I
> > > > > > > > > really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper plane
> fits
> > > too
> > > > > > > > > nicely to pass up!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling the
> vote.
> > I
> > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Ryan
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <
> > iemejia@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject and it
> is
> > > > great
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > see the final selection.
> > > > > > > > > > It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma and
> > everyone!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Ismaël
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong <
> > > > > fokko@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hey Oscar,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active in the
> > > > > conversation
> > > > > > > > > > > around the new logo, but I followed it from the
> sideline.
> > > The
> > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > logos are
> > > > > > > > > > > fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I really like the pigeon, especially the one with the
> > > > envelope!
> > > > > > My
> > > > > > > > vote
> > > > > > > > > > > goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative version
> > :)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra van
> > Holthe -
> > > > > Kind
> > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The past month, there has been new progress on our
> > search
> > > > > for a
> > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > logo (
> > > > > > > > > > > > AVRO-3554 <
> > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> > > > > >).
> > > > > > > > > Thanks to
> > > > > > > > > > > > Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given, we can
> > now
> > > > > > proceed
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > vote on
> > > > > > > > > > > > the matter.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > These are the finalists to choose from (if the image
> is
> > > > > > > unreadable,
> > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > links to the comment where the finalists are
> > announced):
> > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts longer
> than a
> > > > > typical
> > > > > > > > > release,
> > > > > > > > > > > > the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > > > > > > > > > <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >    - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > > > > > > > > >    - to avoid confusion, please vote with the V...
> > > > > ifentifier:
> > > > > > > > V9.2,
> > > > > > > > > V10.2,
> > > > > > > > > > > >    V11.2, V3.1
> > > > > > > > > > > >    - the winner is the logo with at least two (2)
> votes
> > > > more
> > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > >    runner-up
> > > > > > > > > > > >    - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote by
> simple
> > > > > majority
> > > > > > > > > between the
> > > > > > > > > > > >    top picks
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Please vote for your preference!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <opwvhk@apache.org
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Ryan Blue
> > > > > > > Tabular
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>


-- 
David M. Carr
david@carrclan.us

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Emma K <em...@gmail.com>]

Hi all,

I uploaded some new images to the Jira issue here <
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554> to visually capture the
suggestions for adjusting the upward angle design.

I wanted to show what it looks like if the upward angle of the plane logo
is changed so that the underside is visible. The problem is that the blobby
bits of the tail block the underside of the plane when adjusted to this new
angle and make the design less clean and even less obvious as to what the
icon is, which is why in the original upward design V11.2 I didn't add any
underside and instead opted for a cleaner but more abstract representation
of the plane icon.

I also wanted to show what it looks like if I just rotate the V9.2 design
to an upward angle with no other changes. This also doesn't work, because
the flow of the blobs isn't right for this orientation and the underside of
the plane isn't right for this angle.

To clarify a bit on what I wrote previously, I said that it was valid and
made sense that the marketing booth preferred the upward-angle design. When
I said that, I did not mean to suggest that the upward angle was better
than the other designs, what I meant to do was just validate that it was
okay for them to have that preference! The thing that's hard about design
is that it's so subjective and everyone will have their own unique opinions
on what looks better.

But again, I want to make sure that the logo is something that the *Avro
community* loves and agrees upon! I'm worried that the passing subjective
preference of the marketing and publicity office at the Community Over Code
conference is casting its own 'shadow vote' here which is taking away from
the gut feelings of the Avro community as a whole. I would just like to
encourage everyone to pick the design they like best in the final vote,
because at the end of the day, the logo that's chosen will ultimately be
what represents Avro the project, and you as the contributors, not the
marketing and publicity office.

To conclude, I don't think I'll be doing any additional revisions of the
icons themselves in the future, so the options for the logos will be V9.2
(or V.11.2 if you want an upward angle) and V3.2. I will be uploading some
revisions for the font used in the final design (once a winner is chosen)
to see if there is a better alternative on that front, but otherwise, the
icon designs themselves will remain the same. Thanks again for all your
patience and feedback throughout the process!

All my best,

Emma

On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 5:22 AM Fokko Driesprong <fo...@apache.org> wrote:

> Great work again!
>
> > Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons for logos
> > should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to convey the
> > desired image
>
>
> Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes a lot of sense to
> me.
>
> This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides the underside: this
> > makes the plane look incomplete.
>
> I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane (which I like as a
> reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and the paper plane are
> awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while the pigeon might
> bring up IP over Avian Carriers
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>.
>
> I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well.
>
> Kind regards,
> Fokko
>
>
> Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> opwvhk@apache.org>:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as better than V11.2,
> > despite being angled downward. This is, I believe, because the angle of
> > V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look incomplete.
> >
> > My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1 otherwise.
> >
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Oscar
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and vote! I wanted
> > to
> > > refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally influenced the
> > initial
> > > vote in any way!
> > >
> > > Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the suggestions Ryan
> > > received at the Community Over Code conference and Oscar's suggestion
> of
> > > another possible upwards variant.
> > >
> > > I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties into the
> first
> > > point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and publicity office.
> If
> > > we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition that the upward
> > design
> > > of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think that's valid
> > and
> > > makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest we use the 11.2
> > > design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some slight
> adjustments
> > > to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I am a little
> more
> > > hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2 design did not beat
> > out
> > > or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of voting, and
> > > ultimately I would like the final logo to be something that the
> community
> > > as a whole loves and agrees upon!
> > >
> > > The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT Mono font being a
> > > little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only serifed letter.
> > > This is something I didn't notice before but they are right! I actually
> > > already have five other fonts on the backburner that I tried when I was
> > > drafting the original design versions but I personally liked the PT
> Mono
> > > font the best so gave that as the only option (which in hindsight might
> > not
> > > have been the best choice). What I can do is once the final icon is
> > chosen
> > > as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can draft up a few
> more
> > > versions with the alternate font choices and we can decide if one of
> the
> > > other fonts will work better in the long run.
> > >
> > > Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the marketing and
> publicity
> > > office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue, I have to
> > > respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of dark blue in
> the
> > > plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it would be difficult
> to
> > > read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it would be impossible
> > to
> > > parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons
> for
> > > logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to
> convey
> > > the desired image. As an example of this, think of Apple's logo, which
> > is a
> > > simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit that if Apple
> > > wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as effective.
> > >
> > > That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments to the fonts
> and
> > > the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so excited to see which
> > > design will be the final winner in the end! :D
> > >
> > > All my best,
> > >
> > > Emma
> > >
> > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within 6 hours),
> and
> > > no
> > > > non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1.
> > > >
> > > > These are the votes:
> > > >
> > > >    - V9.2: 3 votes
> > > >    - V10.2: 1 vote
> > > >    - V11.2: 0 votes
> > > >    - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the V3.1 variant
> > was
> > > >    part of the vote)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between V9.2 and
> V3.1.
> > > > (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than enough)
> > > >
> > > > Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create a good
> > version
> > > > flying
> > > > slightly upward
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> > > > >
> > > > instead
> > > > of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her good
> judgement
> > > to
> > > > determine if that's really an improvement.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon V3.1?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > > Oscar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote, but I had
> the
> > > > > opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office hours
> during
> > > the
> > > > > community over Code conference. They had some pretty specific
> > > suggestions
> > > > > (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I just want
> to
> > > > > capture them here!
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > > > > 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the r has
> serifs
> > > and
> > > > > the others don't.
> > > > > 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the word Avro
> in
> > > the
> > > > > plane's dark blue!
> > > > >
> > > > > It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice things
> > about
> > > > the
> > > > > initiative!
> > > > >
> > > > > If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any adjustments
> > after
> > > > the
> > > > > vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current logos and
> > > > leaving
> > > > > any changes to Emma's discretion!
> > > > >
> > > > > All my bets Ryan
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <bl...@tabular.io> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > My vote is for 10.2.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It looks good,
> > and
> > > > it's
> > > > > > > very distinctive.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And it's completely different from any send icon, so it cannot
> be
> > > > > > conflated
> > > > > > > with a message protocol icon.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My vote is for V3.1
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <op...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go with V9.2
> > -- I
> > > > > > > > really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper plane fits
> > too
> > > > > > > > nicely to pass up!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling the vote.
> I
> > > > think
> > > > > > > > your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ryan
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <
> iemejia@gmail.com
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject and it is
> > > great
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > see the final selection.
> > > > > > > > > It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma and
> everyone!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Ismaël
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong <
> > > > fokko@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hey Oscar,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active in the
> > > > conversation
> > > > > > > > > > around the new logo, but I followed it from the sideline.
> > The
> > > > new
> > > > > > > > logos are
> > > > > > > > > > fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I really like the pigeon, especially the one with the
> > > envelope!
> > > > > My
> > > > > > > vote
> > > > > > > > > > goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative version
> :)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra van
> Holthe -
> > > > Kind
> > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The past month, there has been new progress on our
> search
> > > > for a
> > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > logo (
> > > > > > > > > > > AVRO-3554 <
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> > > > >).
> > > > > > > > Thanks to
> > > > > > > > > > > Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given, we can
> now
> > > > > proceed
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > vote on
> > > > > > > > > > > the matter.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > These are the finalists to choose from (if the image is
> > > > > > unreadable,
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > links to the comment where the finalists are
> announced):
> > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts longer than a
> > > > typical
> > > > > > > > release,
> > > > > > > > > > > the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > > > > > > > > <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >    - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > > > > > > > >    - to avoid confusion, please vote with the V...
> > > > ifentifier:
> > > > > > > V9.2,
> > > > > > > > V10.2,
> > > > > > > > > > >    V11.2, V3.1
> > > > > > > > > > >    - the winner is the logo with at least two (2) votes
> > > more
> > > > > than
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > >    runner-up
> > > > > > > > > > >    - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote by simple
> > > > majority
> > > > > > > > between the
> > > > > > > > > > >    top picks
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Please vote for your preference!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <op...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Ryan Blue
> > > > > > Tabular
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Fokko Driesprong <fo...@apache.org>]

Great work again!

> Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons for logos
> should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to convey the
> desired image


Thanks for the background information Emma, this makes a lot of sense to me.

This is, I believe, because the angle of V11.2 hides the underside: this
> makes the plane look incomplete.

I agree, it is not obvious that it is a paper plane (which I like as a
reference, because of childhood :) Both the pigeon and the paper plane are
awesome. Maybe the plane is a bit more timeless, while the pigeon might
bring up IP over Avian Carriers
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>.

I'll vote for V9.2 pointing slightly upwards as well.

Kind regards,
Fokko


Op di 17 okt 2023 om 14:54 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
opwvhk@apache.org>:

> Hi all,
>
> The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as better than V11.2,
> despite being angled downward. This is, I believe, because the angle of
> V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look incomplete.
>
> My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1 otherwise.
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Oscar
>
>
>
> On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and vote! I wanted
> to
> > refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally influenced the
> initial
> > vote in any way!
> >
> > Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the suggestions Ryan
> > received at the Community Over Code conference and Oscar's suggestion of
> > another possible upwards variant.
> >
> > I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties into the first
> > point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and publicity office. If
> > we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition that the upward
> design
> > of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think that's valid
> and
> > makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest we use the 11.2
> > design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some slight adjustments
> > to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I am a little more
> > hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2 design did not beat
> out
> > or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of voting, and
> > ultimately I would like the final logo to be something that the community
> > as a whole loves and agrees upon!
> >
> > The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT Mono font being a
> > little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only serifed letter.
> > This is something I didn't notice before but they are right! I actually
> > already have five other fonts on the backburner that I tried when I was
> > drafting the original design versions but I personally liked the PT Mono
> > font the best so gave that as the only option (which in hindsight might
> not
> > have been the best choice). What I can do is once the final icon is
> chosen
> > as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can draft up a few more
> > versions with the alternate font choices and we can decide if one of the
> > other fonts will work better in the long run.
> >
> > Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the marketing and publicity
> > office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue, I have to
> > respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of dark blue in the
> > plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it would be difficult to
> > read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it would be impossible
> to
> > parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons for
> > logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to convey
> > the desired image. As an example of this, think of Apple's logo, which
> is a
> > simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit that if Apple
> > wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as effective.
> >
> > That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments to the fonts and
> > the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so excited to see which
> > design will be the final winner in the end! :D
> >
> > All my best,
> >
> > Emma
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within 6 hours), and
> > no
> > > non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1.
> > >
> > > These are the votes:
> > >
> > >    - V9.2: 3 votes
> > >    - V10.2: 1 vote
> > >    - V11.2: 0 votes
> > >    - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the V3.1 variant
> was
> > >    part of the vote)
> > >
> > >
> > > What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between V9.2 and V3.1.
> > > (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than enough)
> > >
> > > Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create a good
> version
> > > flying
> > > slightly upward
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> > > >
> > > instead
> > > of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her good judgement
> > to
> > > determine if that's really an improvement.
> > >
> > >
> > > So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon V3.1?
> > >
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Oscar
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote, but I had the
> > > > opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office hours during
> > the
> > > > community over Code conference. They had some pretty specific
> > suggestions
> > > > (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I just want to
> > > > capture them here!
> > > >
> > > > 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > > > 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the r has serifs
> > and
> > > > the others don't.
> > > > 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the word Avro in
> > the
> > > > plane's dark blue!
> > > >
> > > > It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice things
> about
> > > the
> > > > initiative!
> > > >
> > > > If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any adjustments
> after
> > > the
> > > > vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current logos and
> > > leaving
> > > > any changes to Emma's discretion!
> > > >
> > > > All my bets Ryan
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <bl...@tabular.io> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > My vote is for 10.2.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It looks good,
> and
> > > it's
> > > > > > very distinctive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And it's completely different from any send icon, so it cannot be
> > > > > conflated
> > > > > > with a message protocol icon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My vote is for V3.1
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <op...@apache.org>
> > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go with V9.2
> -- I
> > > > > > > really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper plane fits
> too
> > > > > > > nicely to pass up!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling the vote. I
> > > think
> > > > > > > your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ryan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <iemejia@gmail.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject and it is
> > great
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > see the final selection.
> > > > > > > > It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma and everyone!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ismaël
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong <
> > > fokko@apache.org>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hey Oscar,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active in the
> > > conversation
> > > > > > > > > around the new logo, but I followed it from the sideline.
> The
> > > new
> > > > > > > logos are
> > > > > > > > > fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I really like the pigeon, especially the one with the
> > envelope!
> > > > My
> > > > > > vote
> > > > > > > > > goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative version :)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> > > Kind
> > > > <
> > > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The past month, there has been new progress on our search
> > > for a
> > > > > new
> > > > > > > logo (
> > > > > > > > > > AVRO-3554 <
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> > > >).
> > > > > > > Thanks to
> > > > > > > > > > Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given, we can now
> > > > proceed
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > vote on
> > > > > > > > > > the matter.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > These are the finalists to choose from (if the image is
> > > > > unreadable,
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > links to the comment where the finalists are announced):
> > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts longer than a
> > > typical
> > > > > > > release,
> > > > > > > > > > the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > > > > > > > <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >    - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > > > > > > >    - to avoid confusion, please vote with the V...
> > > ifentifier:
> > > > > > V9.2,
> > > > > > > V10.2,
> > > > > > > > > >    V11.2, V3.1
> > > > > > > > > >    - the winner is the logo with at least two (2) votes
> > more
> > > > than
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >    runner-up
> > > > > > > > > >    - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote by simple
> > > majority
> > > > > > > between the
> > > > > > > > > >    top picks
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Please vote for your preference!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <op...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Ryan Blue
> > > > > Tabular
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > >
> > > --
> > > Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> > >
> >
>

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <op...@apache.org>]

Hi all,

The results yesterday show that V9.2 is perceived as better than V11.2,
despite being angled downward. This is, I believe, because the angle of
V11.2 hides the underside: this makes the plane look incomplete.

My vote is for V9.2 if changed to fly upward, V3.1 otherwise.


Kind regards,
Oscar



On Mon, 16 Oct 2023 at 21:46, Emma K <em...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and vote! I wanted to
> refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally influenced the initial
> vote in any way!
>
> Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the suggestions Ryan
> received at the Community Over Code conference and Oscar's suggestion of
> another possible upwards variant.
>
> I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties into the first
> point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and publicity office. If
> we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition that the upward design
> of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think that's valid and
> makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest we use the 11.2
> design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some slight adjustments
> to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I am a little more
> hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2 design did not beat out
> or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of voting, and
> ultimately I would like the final logo to be something that the community
> as a whole loves and agrees upon!
>
> The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT Mono font being a
> little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only serifed letter.
> This is something I didn't notice before but they are right! I actually
> already have five other fonts on the backburner that I tried when I was
> drafting the original design versions but I personally liked the PT Mono
> font the best so gave that as the only option (which in hindsight might not
> have been the best choice). What I can do is once the final icon is chosen
> as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can draft up a few more
> versions with the alternate font choices and we can decide if one of the
> other fonts will work better in the long run.
>
> Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the marketing and publicity
> office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue, I have to
> respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of dark blue in the
> plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it would be difficult to
> read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it would be impossible to
> parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons for
> logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to convey
> the desired image. As an example of this, think of Apple's logo, which is a
> simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit that if Apple
> wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as effective.
>
> That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments to the fonts and
> the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so excited to see which
> design will be the final winner in the end! :D
>
> All my best,
>
> Emma
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within 6 hours), and
> no
> > non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1.
> >
> > These are the votes:
> >
> >    - V9.2: 3 votes
> >    - V10.2: 1 vote
> >    - V11.2: 0 votes
> >    - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the V3.1 variant was
> >    part of the vote)
> >
> >
> > What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between V9.2 and V3.1.
> > (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than enough)
> >
> > Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create a good version
> > flying
> > slightly upward
> > <
> >
> https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> > >
> > instead
> > of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her good judgement
> to
> > determine if that's really an improvement.
> >
> >
> > So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon V3.1?
> >
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Oscar
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote, but I had the
> > > opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office hours during
> the
> > > community over Code conference. They had some pretty specific
> suggestions
> > > (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I just want to
> > > capture them here!
> > >
> > > 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > > 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the r has serifs
> and
> > > the others don't.
> > > 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the word Avro in
> the
> > > plane's dark blue!
> > >
> > > It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice things about
> > the
> > > initiative!
> > >
> > > If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any adjustments after
> > the
> > > vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current logos and
> > leaving
> > > any changes to Emma's discretion!
> > >
> > > All my bets Ryan
> > >
> > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <bl...@tabular.io> wrote:
> > >
> > > > My vote is for 10.2.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It looks good, and
> > it's
> > > > > very distinctive.
> > > > >
> > > > > And it's completely different from any send icon, so it cannot be
> > > > conflated
> > > > > with a message protocol icon.
> > > > >
> > > > > My vote is for V3.1
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > Oscar
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <op...@apache.org>
> > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > >
> > > > > Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go with V9.2 -- I
> > > > > > really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper plane fits too
> > > > > > nicely to pass up!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling the vote. I
> > think
> > > > > > your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ryan
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <ie...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > V9.2
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject and it is
> great
> > > to
> > > > > > > see the final selection.
> > > > > > > It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma and everyone!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ismaël
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong <
> > fokko@apache.org>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hey Oscar,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active in the
> > conversation
> > > > > > > > around the new logo, but I followed it from the sideline. The
> > new
> > > > > > logos are
> > > > > > > > fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I really like the pigeon, especially the one with the
> envelope!
> > > My
> > > > > vote
> > > > > > > > goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative version :)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> > Kind
> > > <
> > > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The past month, there has been new progress on our search
> > for a
> > > > new
> > > > > > logo (
> > > > > > > > > AVRO-3554 <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> > >).
> > > > > > Thanks to
> > > > > > > > > Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given, we can now
> > > proceed
> > > > to
> > > > > > vote on
> > > > > > > > > the matter.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > These are the finalists to choose from (if the image is
> > > > unreadable,
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > links to the comment where the finalists are announced):
> > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts longer than a
> > typical
> > > > > > release,
> > > > > > > > > the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > > > > > > <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > > > > > >    - to avoid confusion, please vote with the V...
> > ifentifier:
> > > > > V9.2,
> > > > > > V10.2,
> > > > > > > > >    V11.2, V3.1
> > > > > > > > >    - the winner is the logo with at least two (2) votes
> more
> > > than
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >    runner-up
> > > > > > > > >    - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote by simple
> > majority
> > > > > > between the
> > > > > > > > >    top picks
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Please vote for your preference!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <op...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Ryan Blue
> > > > Tabular
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> >
> > --
> > Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
> >
>

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Emma K <em...@gmail.com>]

Hi all,

Thank you for your kind words throughout the process and vote! I wanted to
refrain from jumping in earlier lest I accidentally influenced the initial
vote in any way!

Just wanted to hop in now and give my thoughts on the suggestions Ryan
received at the Community Over Code conference and Oscar's suggestion of
another possible upwards variant.

I'll start with Oscar's suggestion first, which also ties into the first
point of advice Ryan received from the marketing and publicity office. If
we'd like to follow ASF's marketing team's intuition that the upward design
of 11.2 is better than the downward design of 9.2 I think that's valid and
makes sense! If this is the case, then I would suggest we use the 11.2
design rather than the 9.2 design, and I can make some slight adjustments
to the angle of the plane as we see fit. I'll add that I am a little more
hesitant about this approach only because the 11.2 design did not beat out
or tie with the votes of design 9.2 in the first round of voting, and
ultimately I would like the final logo to be something that the community
as a whole loves and agrees upon!

The next suggestion Ryan received was based on the PT Mono font being a
little strange for the word 'Avro' as the r is the only serifed letter.
This is something I didn't notice before but they are right! I actually
already have five other fonts on the backburner that I tried when I was
drafting the original design versions but I personally liked the PT Mono
font the best so gave that as the only option (which in hindsight might not
have been the best choice). What I can do is once the final icon is chosen
as the winner (either the plane or the pigeon) I can draft up a few more
versions with the alternate font choices and we can decide if one of the
other fonts will work better in the long run.

Finally, in terms of the last suggestion from the marketing and publicity
office of having the word Avro in the plane's dark blue, I have to
respectfully disagree with this assessment. The area of dark blue in the
plane icons is so small that even at large sizes it would be difficult to
read 'Avro' if it was there, and at small sizes, it would be impossible to
parse. Based on what I was taught when studying graphic design, icons for
logos should be memorable and have the simplest possible design to convey
the desired image. As an example of this, think of Apple's logo, which is a
simplistic apple icon with a chunk missing. I would posit that if Apple
wrote 'Apple' on their icon, it wouldn't be nearly as effective.

That's my 2¢ anyways! I'm happy to make more adjustments to the fonts and
the angles of the icons as we see fit, and I'm so excited to see which
design will be the final winner in the end! :D

All my best,

Emma

On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within 6 hours), and no
> non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1.
>
> These are the votes:
>
>    - V9.2: 3 votes
>    - V10.2: 1 vote
>    - V11.2: 0 votes
>    - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the V3.1 variant was
>    part of the vote)
>
>
> What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between V9.2 and V3.1.
> (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than enough)
>
> Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create a good version
> flying
> slightly upward
> <
> https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> >
> instead
> of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her good judgement to
> determine if that's really an improvement.
>
>
> So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon V3.1?
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Oscar
>
>
> On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote, but I had the
> > opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office hours during the
> > community over Code conference. They had some pretty specific suggestions
> > (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I just want to
> > capture them here!
> >
> > 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the r has serifs and
> > the others don't.
> > 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the word Avro in the
> > plane's dark blue!
> >
> > It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice things about
> the
> > initiative!
> >
> > If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any adjustments after
> the
> > vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current logos and
> leaving
> > any changes to Emma's discretion!
> >
> > All my bets Ryan
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <bl...@tabular.io> wrote:
> >
> > > My vote is for 10.2.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It looks good, and
> it's
> > > > very distinctive.
> > > >
> > > > And it's completely different from any send icon, so it cannot be
> > > conflated
> > > > with a message protocol icon.
> > > >
> > > > My vote is for V3.1
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > > Oscar
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <op...@apache.org>
> > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > >
> > > > Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>:
> > > >
> > > > > I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go with V9.2 -- I
> > > > > really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper plane fits too
> > > > > nicely to pass up!
> > > > >
> > > > > Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling the vote. I
> think
> > > > > your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > > >
> > > > > Ryan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <ie...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > V9.2
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject and it is great
> > to
> > > > > > see the final selection.
> > > > > > It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma and everyone!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ismaël
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong <
> fokko@apache.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hey Oscar,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active in the
> conversation
> > > > > > > around the new logo, but I followed it from the sideline. The
> new
> > > > > logos are
> > > > > > > fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I really like the pigeon, especially the one with the envelope!
> > My
> > > > vote
> > > > > > > goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative version :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> Kind
> > <
> > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The past month, there has been new progress on our search
> for a
> > > new
> > > > > logo (
> > > > > > > > AVRO-3554 <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> >).
> > > > > Thanks to
> > > > > > > > Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given, we can now
> > proceed
> > > to
> > > > > vote on
> > > > > > > > the matter.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > These are the finalists to choose from (if the image is
> > > unreadable,
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > > links to the comment where the finalists are announced):
> > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts longer than a
> typical
> > > > > release,
> > > > > > > > the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > > > > > <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > > > > >    - to avoid confusion, please vote with the V...
> ifentifier:
> > > > V9.2,
> > > > > V10.2,
> > > > > > > >    V11.2, V3.1
> > > > > > > >    - the winner is the logo with at least two (2) votes more
> > than
> > > > the
> > > > > > > >    runner-up
> > > > > > > >    - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote by simple
> majority
> > > > > between the
> > > > > > > >    top picks
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Please vote for your preference!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <op...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ryan Blue
> > > Tabular
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
>
> --
> Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
>

Re: [VOTE] New Avro logo (final)

[Martin Grigorov <mg...@apache.org>]

On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 7:33 PM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> The results are in: with 6 binding votes (all cast within 6 hours), and no
> non-binding votes, it's a near-tie between V9.2 and V3.1.
>
> These are the votes:
>
>    - V9.2: 3 votes
>    - V10.2: 1 vote
>    - V11.2: 0 votes
>    - V3.1: 2 votes (I changed the vote for V6.1, as the V3.1 variant was
>    part of the vote)
>
>
> What's next: one week to vote by simple majority between V9.2 and V3.1.
>

+1 for v9.2 (as of current design or if changed to go up).



> (given our quick votes last time, it's probably more than enough)
>
> Then, if we choose for V9.2, perhaps Emma can also create a good version
> flying
> slightly upward
> <
> https://clipart-library.com/newhp/31-316437_transparent-airplane-clipart-paper-airplane-clipart-png-png.png
> >
> instead
> of steeply like V11.2. I think we can leave it up to her good judgement to
> determine if that's really an improvement.
>
>
> So, which do you like more: the plane V9.2, or the pigeon V3.1?
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Oscar
>
>
> On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:54, Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello! I don't want to derail the conversation or vote, but I had the
> > opportunity to attend the marketing and publicity office hours during the
> > community over Code conference. They had some pretty specific suggestions
> > (but not requirements of course). I'm on my phone but I just want to
> > capture them here!
> >
> > 1. Plane going up is better than down!
> > 2. PT Mono is peculiar for our specific word because the r has serifs and
> > the others don't.
> > 3. If we use the arrow, it would look great to have the word Avro in the
> > plane's dark blue!
> >
> > It was a neat conversation and they said some really nice things about
> the
> > initiative!
> >
> > If we do anything about 2 or 3, we can talk about any adjustments after
> the
> > vote. To be honest, I'm 100% confident with these current logos and
> leaving
> > any changes to Emma's discretion!
> >
> > All my bets Ryan
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 13:08 Ryan Blue <bl...@tabular.io> wrote:
> >
> > > My vote is for 10.2.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 9:02 AM Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <
> > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > Since the start, I've been a fan of the pigeon. It looks good, and
> it's
> > > > very distinctive.
> > > >
> > > > And it's completely different from any send icon, so it cannot be
> > > conflated
> > > > with a message protocol icon.
> > > >
> > > > My vote is for V3.1
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > > Oscar
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <op...@apache.org>
> > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > >
> > > > Op ma 2 okt. 2023 16:47 schreef Ryan Skraba <ry...@skraba.com>:
> > > >
> > > > > I can't stop changing my mind, but I'm going to go with V9.2 -- I
> > > > > really like the pigeon too, but I think the paper plane fits too
> > > > > nicely to pass up!
> > > > >
> > > > > Excellent work, Emma, and thanks Oscar for calling the vote. I
> think
> > > > > your voting proposal makes sense!
> > > > >
> > > > > Ryan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:59 PM Ismaël Mejía <ie...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > V9.2
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Like Fokko I was also not so close to the subject and it is great
> > to
> > > > > > see the final selection.
> > > > > > It looks so great. Thanks for all the work Emma and everyone!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ismaël
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 3:23 PM Fokko Driesprong <
> fokko@apache.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hey Oscar,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for raising this vote. I wasn't active in the
> conversation
> > > > > > > around the new logo, but I followed it from the sideline. The
> new
> > > > > logos are
> > > > > > > fantastic. Kudos to Emma.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I really like the pigeon, especially the one with the envelope!
> > My
> > > > vote
> > > > > > > goes to V6.1 if I can't vote on the alternative version :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cheers, Fokko
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Op ma 2 okt 2023 om 14:14 schreef Oscar Westra van Holthe -
> Kind
> > <
> > > > > > > oscar@westravanholthe.nl>:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The past month, there has been new progress on our search
> for a
> > > new
> > > > > logo (
> > > > > > > > AVRO-3554 <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554
> >).
> > > > > Thanks to
> > > > > > > > Emma Kellam and the feedback we've all given, we can now
> > proceed
> > > to
> > > > > vote on
> > > > > > > > the matter.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > These are the finalists to choose from (if the image is
> > > unreadable,
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > > links to the comment where the finalists are announced):
> > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AVRO-3554?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=17770969#comment-17770969
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So now, we can vote. Because a logo lasts longer than a
> typical
> > > > > release,
> > > > > > > > the rules deviate from the usual rules
> > > > > > > > <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting>:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    - the vote lasts 2 weeks
> > > > > > > >    - to avoid confusion, please vote with the V...
> ifentifier:
> > > > V9.2,
> > > > > V10.2,
> > > > > > > >    V11.2, V3.1
> > > > > > > >    - the winner is the logo with at least two (2) votes more
> > than
> > > > the
> > > > > > > >    runner-up
> > > > > > > >    - if there is no clear winner, we'll vote by simple
> majority
> > > > > between the
> > > > > > > >    top picks
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Please vote for your preference!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > > > Oscar
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <op...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > 🌐 https://github.com/opwvhk/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ryan Blue
> > > Tabular
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> ✉️ Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
>
> --
> Oscar Westra van Holthe - Kind <os...@westravanholthe.nl>
>