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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by Paul Hammant <Pa...@yahoo.com> on 2002/02/04 11:03:24 UTC

Jesktop migrating from Jakarta to Sourceforge

Folks,

*Context*

To remind you, I am a committer on Avalon and Commons with intersts in 
anything that uses avalon-phoenix.   Many months ago, I placed a long 
worked on project called Jesktop inside jakarta-avalon-cornerstone's CVS 
as a "demo" application for Avalon-Phoenix.  I then did quite a bit more 
work on it.   I think it may have been a bit of a mistake. Despite 
continued interest in Jesktop ( I get a private email once a week asking 
"how do I download it"), it is essentially stagnating there as I am 
sidetracked with Enterprise Object Broker and AltRMI (and would be with 
AvalonDB if I had time).

*Proposal*

I'm proposing moving it off jakarta CVS and onto sourceforge, where 
committers can be added at will without the faux-pas of access to 
Avalon's huge codebase.  The reason I am asking here is that it is 
taking code away from Apache.  It will still be Apache licensed and 
could well *come back one day* (when community is proven and assuming it 
is not still alien in principle).

The BSD licensed API is already at sourceforge: 
http://jesktop.sourceforge.net/
The multiple non-Apache licensed ported applications are already at 
sourceforge: http://jesktopapps.sourceforge.net/  (pictures speak 1000 
words)

Regards,

- Paul H


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Re: Jesktop migrating from Jakarta to Sourceforge

Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
I really think the time has come for a Java gui stuff foundry.  (Unless
everyone has moved to C# already ;-) ).

-Andy


On Wed, 2002-02-06 at 08:00, Santiago Gala wrote:
> Paul Hammant wrote:
> 
> > Folks,
> >
> > *Context*
> >
> > To remind you, I am a committer on Avalon and Commons with intersts in 
> > anything that uses avalon-phoenix.   Many months ago, I placed a long 
> > worked on project called Jesktop inside jakarta-avalon-cornerstone's 
> > CVS as a "demo" application for Avalon-Phoenix.  I then did quite a 
> > bit more work on it.   I think it may have been a bit of a mistake. 
> > Despite continued interest in Jesktop ( I get a private email once a 
> > week asking "how do I download it"), it is essentially stagnating 
> > there as I am sidetracked with Enterprise Object Broker and AltRMI 
> > (and would be with AvalonDB if I had time).
> 
> 
> I found it a couple of weeks ago, I tested it and it looked a pretty 
> interesting effort. It looks performant enough for everyday usage.
> 
> Lessons learned (WRT project management):
> 
> 1 it was difficult to find (I think I found it following a link 
> somewhere in Cocoon, but it was convoluted).
> 2 the demo looked interesting, but it was difficult to grasp where and 
> how Jesktop is going (vision...)
> 3 I'm sure a lot of people will use it, feed back on it, improve it if 
> it is more visible.
> 
> I don't want to enter the discussion about where is it going to happen, 
> but I would be interested in seeing it happen somewhere.
> 
> As an early dreamer in the Java OS concept I appreciated jesktop a lot. 
> I have a mental pointer to track it in the future.
> 
> Some years ago, I was raving on java to a MS marketing guy. He told me 
> "sure, but you are showing me this demo running on Windows". Then I 
> downloaded java OS (do you remember this?) and next time I met him I 
> showed java to him running mostly natively (it still used MS-DOS, but 
> this is little more than a BIOS) .
> 
> I felt about the same when I started jesktop on top of linux-X without 
> any native Window Manager some days ago.
> 
> 
> 
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The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to
vote.
-Ambassador Kosh


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Re: Jesktop migrating from Jakarta to Sourceforge

Posted by Santiago Gala <sg...@hisitech.com>.
Paul Hammant wrote:

> Folks,
>
> *Context*
>
> To remind you, I am a committer on Avalon and Commons with intersts in 
> anything that uses avalon-phoenix.   Many months ago, I placed a long 
> worked on project called Jesktop inside jakarta-avalon-cornerstone's 
> CVS as a "demo" application for Avalon-Phoenix.  I then did quite a 
> bit more work on it.   I think it may have been a bit of a mistake. 
> Despite continued interest in Jesktop ( I get a private email once a 
> week asking "how do I download it"), it is essentially stagnating 
> there as I am sidetracked with Enterprise Object Broker and AltRMI 
> (and would be with AvalonDB if I had time).


I found it a couple of weeks ago, I tested it and it looked a pretty 
interesting effort. It looks performant enough for everyday usage.

Lessons learned (WRT project management):

1 it was difficult to find (I think I found it following a link 
somewhere in Cocoon, but it was convoluted).
2 the demo looked interesting, but it was difficult to grasp where and 
how Jesktop is going (vision...)
3 I'm sure a lot of people will use it, feed back on it, improve it if 
it is more visible.

I don't want to enter the discussion about where is it going to happen, 
but I would be interested in seeing it happen somewhere.

As an early dreamer in the Java OS concept I appreciated jesktop a lot. 
I have a mental pointer to track it in the future.

Some years ago, I was raving on java to a MS marketing guy. He told me 
"sure, but you are showing me this demo running on Windows". Then I 
downloaded java OS (do you remember this?) and next time I met him I 
showed java to him running mostly natively (it still used MS-DOS, but 
this is little more than a BIOS) .

I felt about the same when I started jesktop on top of linux-X without 
any native Window Manager some days ago.



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Re: Jesktop migrating from Jakarta to Sourceforge

Posted by Paul Hammant <Pa...@yahoo.com>.
Ted,

>Has there been a vote regarding this in Avalon?
>

It is in progress and so far in favour of a move.  I dont think it will 
be vetoed as I was the only one that ever committed changes.  It won't 
be useful until I complete the mime-manager-registry (for double click 
associations etc), so few have tested it.

>
>Have all the prior authors of the packages been pinged?
>

There were consulted on a move to Apache license and a move to Jakarta 
hosting.  I have written 90% of the code and the other authors dropped 
away, probably not related to the move to jakarta. I am sure they do not 
actually need to be asked as they are not committers here.   Others are 
interested now.

>Will the existing codebase continue under the Apache License?
>

Yes.  Without any change to wording.

>What is the status of the current sourceforge projects? Could this be
>joined into one project there under the Apache License?
>

The API (project jesktop)  is BSD licensed because I haveported lots of 
GPL applications to be Jesktop compatible and GPL is incompatible with 
Apache software license, but not BSD.  Those apps are hosted under 
project jesktopapps.  This proposal is about moving the source tree 
undchanged (apart from package rename) to souceforge as "jesktopimpl". 
 There is scope for others to take the API and make a Jesktop desktop 
that is not of the same codebase.

>It's my feeling that our core mission is promoting the Apache open
>source methodology and licensing terms. Where the codebase lives is
>secondary. 
>

Yup, we do concentrate on server side comps/tools/apps now.  I think 
that is limiting and cite Batik as a cool Apache GUI app.  I would love 
for Jesktop (impl) to remain at Apache as a top-level project, but a) it 
is not in scope and b) suffers from the wel known catch-22 of having no 
community yet.  I hope the rules change in teh future so I can bring it 
back.

Regards,

- Paul H


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Re: Jesktop migrating from Jakarta to Sourceforge

Posted by Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>.
Has there been a vote regarding this in Avalon?

Have all the prior authors of the packages been pinged?

Will the existing codebase continue under the Apache License?

What is the status of the current sourceforge projects? Could this be
joined into one project there under the Apache License?

It's my feeling that our core mission is promoting the Apache open
source methodology and licensing terms. Where the codebase lives is
secondary. 

-Ted.


Paul Hammant wrote:
> 
> Folks,
> 
> *Context*
> 
> To remind you, I am a committer on Avalon and Commons with intersts in
> anything that uses avalon-phoenix.   Many months ago, I placed a long
> worked on project called Jesktop inside jakarta-avalon-cornerstone's CVS
> as a "demo" application for Avalon-Phoenix.  I then did quite a bit more
> work on it.   I think it may have been a bit of a mistake. Despite
> continued interest in Jesktop ( I get a private email once a week asking
> "how do I download it"), it is essentially stagnating there as I am
> sidetracked with Enterprise Object Broker and AltRMI (and would be with
> AvalonDB if I had time).
> 
> *Proposal*
> 
> I'm proposing moving it off jakarta CVS and onto sourceforge, where
> committers can be added at will without the faux-pas of access to
> Avalon's huge codebase.  The reason I am asking here is that it is
> taking code away from Apache.  It will still be Apache licensed and
> could well *come back one day* (when community is proven and assuming it
> is not still alien in principle).
> 
> The BSD licensed API is already at sourceforge:
> http://jesktop.sourceforge.net/
> The multiple non-Apache licensed ported applications are already at
> sourceforge: http://jesktopapps.sourceforge.net/  (pictures speak 1000
> words)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> - Paul H
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>

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