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Posted to dev@myfaces.apache.org by Sean Schofield <se...@gmail.com> on 2005/01/17 23:10:58 UTC
A few more suggestions
I have a few more suggestions for the MyFaces development team:
#1) Consider moving from CVS to Subversion (SVN) when its time to
leave the incubator. Apache has both types of repositories available.
Struts just recently moved to SVN and people like it. I'm not
totally familiar with advantages vs. disadvantages but it seems to be
a lot more flexible. If this is something we'd consider than it would
be best to do it at the same time as MyFaces leaves the incubator.
#2) Regardless of whether we use SVN or CVS, it would be nice to email
the developer's list when users check in. This is a standard practice
with other Apache projects and helps developers keep track of changes
to the codebase.
sean
Re: A few more suggestions
Posted by Heath Borders <he...@gmail.com>.
+1 to SVN, but that's just because we're using SVN here, and I'm used
to it. The client I'm using is really nice and has lots of tools for
handling conflicts.
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:10:58 -0500, Sean Schofield
<se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a few more suggestions for the MyFaces development team:
>
> #1) Consider moving from CVS to Subversion (SVN) when its time to
> leave the incubator. Apache has both types of repositories available.
> Struts just recently moved to SVN and people like it. I'm not
> totally familiar with advantages vs. disadvantages but it seems to be
> a lot more flexible. If this is something we'd consider than it would
> be best to do it at the same time as MyFaces leaves the incubator.
>
> #2) Regardless of whether we use SVN or CVS, it would be nice to email
> the developer's list when users check in. This is a standard practice
> with other Apache projects and helps developers keep track of changes
> to the codebase.
>
> sean
>
--
-Heath Borders-Wing
hborders@mail.win.org
Re: A few more suggestions
Posted by Grant Smith <gr...@marathon-man.com>.
As an Intellij user, I will also have to go with a -1 for now.
The current EAP version of IDEA does have SVN integrated, but it is currently
too unstable for production use.
As a Linux user, Tortoise is not an option for me.
On Tuesday 18 January 2005 06:11, Sean Schofield wrote:
> Tortoise SVN (and CVS) are awesome. I can understand though if people
> aren't quite ready to move. I was just thinking the code would
> probably have to move when we come out of the incubator so that would
> be a good time. We could always move it later once the IDE support
> improves a bit - it just requires a second move.
>
> sean
>
>
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 08:02:18 -0600, Heath Borders
>
> <he...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > We're using Tortoise SVN here, and we're loving it. It doesn't
> > integrate directly with eclipse, but it does integrate directly with
> > windows explorer. Committing and updating is almost completely
> > painless, and the client is great at merging files.
> >
> > On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:09:54 +0100, Martin Marinschek
> >
> > <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Just wait a little for us IntelliJ Developers, the next version of
> > > IntelliJ will provide integrated svn support and it will be released
> > > in the next few months...
> > >
> > > -1 in the meantime from me, too!
> > >
> > > regards,
> > >
> > > Martin
> > >
> > > On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:14:44 +0100, Manfred Geiler <ma...@apache.org>
wrote:
> > > > Anbody of you, who has experience with svn plugin for intellij IDEA?
> > > > The diff tool in intellij is wonderful, it's the best I know and I
> > > > love it. But I fear, that feature is not available with svn.
> > > > So,
> > > > -1 for SVN from my subjective POV as long as SVN is not integrated in
> > > > IDEA
> > > >
> > > > Manfred
> > > >
> > > > Sean Schofield schrieb:
> > > > >>emails for commits : works fine for me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Its working fine for me now too. I didn't know that I had to
> > > > > subscribe separately. With some of the apache projects (like
> > > > > Struts) you get these emails automatically. In other words,
> > > > > struts-dev mailing list is a subsriber to the CVS change list.
> > > > >
> > > > > This way works fine for me though.
> > > > >
> > > > > sean
> >
> > --
> > -Heath Borders-Wing
> > hborders@mail.win.org
Re: A few more suggestions
Posted by Sylvain Vieujot <sv...@apache.org>.
I've no problem waiting a few months.
I hope that the eclipse plugin will improve too in the meantime.
On Tue, 2005-01-18 at 08:02 -0600, Heath Borders wrote:
> We're using Tortoise SVN here, and we're loving it. It doesn't
> integrate directly with eclipse, but it does integrate directly with
> windows explorer. Committing and updating is almost completely
> painless, and the client is great at merging files.
>
>
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:09:54 +0100, Martin Marinschek
> <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Just wait a little for us IntelliJ Developers, the next version of
> > IntelliJ will provide integrated svn support and it will be released
> > in the next few months...
> >
> > -1 in the meantime from me, too!
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Martin
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:14:44 +0100, Manfred Geiler <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > Anbody of you, who has experience with svn plugin for intellij IDEA?
> > > The diff tool in intellij is wonderful, it's the best I know and I love
> > > it. But I fear, that feature is not available with svn.
> > > So,
> > > -1 for SVN from my subjective POV as long as SVN is not integrated in IDEA
> > >
> > > Manfred
> > >
> > > Sean Schofield schrieb:
> > > >>emails for commits : works fine for me.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Its working fine for me now too. I didn't know that I had to
> > > > subscribe separately. With some of the apache projects (like Struts)
> > > > you get these emails automatically. In other words, struts-dev
> > > > mailing list is a subsriber to the CVS change list.
> > > >
> > > > This way works fine for me though.
> > > >
> > > > sean
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
Re: A few more suggestions
Posted by Sean Schofield <se...@gmail.com>.
Tortoise SVN (and CVS) are awesome. I can understand though if people
aren't quite ready to move. I was just thinking the code would
probably have to move when we come out of the incubator so that would
be a good time. We could always move it later once the IDE support
improves a bit - it just requires a second move.
sean
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 08:02:18 -0600, Heath Borders
<he...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We're using Tortoise SVN here, and we're loving it. It doesn't
> integrate directly with eclipse, but it does integrate directly with
> windows explorer. Committing and updating is almost completely
> painless, and the client is great at merging files.
>
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:09:54 +0100, Martin Marinschek
> <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Just wait a little for us IntelliJ Developers, the next version of
> > IntelliJ will provide integrated svn support and it will be released
> > in the next few months...
> >
> > -1 in the meantime from me, too!
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Martin
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:14:44 +0100, Manfred Geiler <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > Anbody of you, who has experience with svn plugin for intellij IDEA?
> > > The diff tool in intellij is wonderful, it's the best I know and I love
> > > it. But I fear, that feature is not available with svn.
> > > So,
> > > -1 for SVN from my subjective POV as long as SVN is not integrated in IDEA
> > >
> > > Manfred
> > >
> > > Sean Schofield schrieb:
> > > >>emails for commits : works fine for me.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Its working fine for me now too. I didn't know that I had to
> > > > subscribe separately. With some of the apache projects (like Struts)
> > > > you get these emails automatically. In other words, struts-dev
> > > > mailing list is a subsriber to the CVS change list.
> > > >
> > > > This way works fine for me though.
> > > >
> > > > sean
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> --
> -Heath Borders-Wing
> hborders@mail.win.org
>
Re: A few more suggestions
Posted by Heath Borders <he...@gmail.com>.
We're using Tortoise SVN here, and we're loving it. It doesn't
integrate directly with eclipse, but it does integrate directly with
windows explorer. Committing and updating is almost completely
painless, and the client is great at merging files.
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:09:54 +0100, Martin Marinschek
<ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just wait a little for us IntelliJ Developers, the next version of
> IntelliJ will provide integrated svn support and it will be released
> in the next few months...
>
> -1 in the meantime from me, too!
>
> regards,
>
> Martin
>
>
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:14:44 +0100, Manfred Geiler <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Anbody of you, who has experience with svn plugin for intellij IDEA?
> > The diff tool in intellij is wonderful, it's the best I know and I love
> > it. But I fear, that feature is not available with svn.
> > So,
> > -1 for SVN from my subjective POV as long as SVN is not integrated in IDEA
> >
> > Manfred
> >
> > Sean Schofield schrieb:
> > >>emails for commits : works fine for me.
> > >
> > >
> > > Its working fine for me now too. I didn't know that I had to
> > > subscribe separately. With some of the apache projects (like Struts)
> > > you get these emails automatically. In other words, struts-dev
> > > mailing list is a subsriber to the CVS change list.
> > >
> > > This way works fine for me though.
> > >
> > > sean
> > >
> > >
> >
>
--
-Heath Borders-Wing
hborders@mail.win.org
Re: A few more suggestions
Posted by Martin Marinschek <ma...@gmail.com>.
Just wait a little for us IntelliJ Developers, the next version of
IntelliJ will provide integrated svn support and it will be released
in the next few months...
-1 in the meantime from me, too!
regards,
Martin
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:14:44 +0100, Manfred Geiler <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> Anbody of you, who has experience with svn plugin for intellij IDEA?
> The diff tool in intellij is wonderful, it's the best I know and I love
> it. But I fear, that feature is not available with svn.
> So,
> -1 for SVN from my subjective POV as long as SVN is not integrated in IDEA
>
> Manfred
>
> Sean Schofield schrieb:
> >>emails for commits : works fine for me.
> >
> >
> > Its working fine for me now too. I didn't know that I had to
> > subscribe separately. With some of the apache projects (like Struts)
> > you get these emails automatically. In other words, struts-dev
> > mailing list is a subsriber to the CVS change list.
> >
> > This way works fine for me though.
> >
> > sean
> >
> >
>
Re: A few more suggestions
Posted by Manfred Geiler <ma...@apache.org>.
Anbody of you, who has experience with svn plugin for intellij IDEA?
The diff tool in intellij is wonderful, it's the best I know and I love
it. But I fear, that feature is not available with svn.
So,
-1 for SVN from my subjective POV as long as SVN is not integrated in IDEA
Manfred
Sean Schofield schrieb:
>>emails for commits : works fine for me.
>
>
> Its working fine for me now too. I didn't know that I had to
> subscribe separately. With some of the apache projects (like Struts)
> you get these emails automatically. In other words, struts-dev
> mailing list is a subsriber to the CVS change list.
>
> This way works fine for me though.
>
> sean
>
>
Re: A few more suggestions
Posted by Sean Schofield <se...@gmail.com>.
> emails for commits : works fine for me.
Its working fine for me now too. I didn't know that I had to
subscribe separately. With some of the apache projects (like Struts)
you get these emails automatically. In other words, struts-dev
mailing list is a subsriber to the CVS change list.
This way works fine for me though.
sean
Re: A few more suggestions
Posted by Sylvain Vieujot <sv...@apache.org>.
+1 for SVN. Even if the the eclipse support for SVN isn't great, I still
prefer SVN with the CLI to CVS with IDE.
emails for commits : works fine for me.
On Mon, 2005-01-17 at 17:10 -0500, Sean Schofield wrote:
> I have a few more suggestions for the MyFaces development team:
>
> #1) Consider moving from CVS to Subversion (SVN) when its time to
> leave the incubator. Apache has both types of repositories available.
> Struts just recently moved to SVN and people like it. I'm not
> totally familiar with advantages vs. disadvantages but it seems to be
> a lot more flexible. If this is something we'd consider than it would
> be best to do it at the same time as MyFaces leaves the incubator.
>
> #2) Regardless of whether we use SVN or CVS, it would be nice to email
> the developer's list when users check in. This is a standard practice
> with other Apache projects and helps developers keep track of changes
> to the codebase.
>
> sean
Re: A few more suggestions
Posted by Martin Cooper <mf...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:48:28 -0500, Sean Schofield
<se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Moving to Subversion was "strongly suggested" when we drafted the incubator proposal. However, the developers felt that the CVS IDE tools were more mature, and that they would prefer to wait before switching.
>
> So does that mean the matter has been decided already? Were you one
> of the "strong suggesters"? No big deal but I thought it might make
> sense. The tools for SVN seem fine to me.
>
> > To receive the CVS logs, subscribe to <in...@apache.org>.
>
> I was unable to do this. I tried sending an email to the address you
> provided with "subscribe" in the subject. Also,
> subscribe-incubator-myfaces-cvs does not work either.
Try myfaces-cvs-subscribe@incubator.apache.org
--
Martin Cooper
> > -Ted.
>
> sean
>
Re: A few more suggestions
Posted by Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:48:28 -0500, Sean Schofield wrote:
>�I was unable to do this. �I tried sending an email to the address
>�you provided with "subscribe" in the subject. �Also,
>�subscribe-incubator-myfaces-cvs does not work either.
Other way around: incubator-myfaces-cvs-subscribe@
All the Apache mailing lists will work this way.
>
>>�-Ted.
>>
>�sean
Re: A few more suggestions
Posted by Sean Schofield <se...@gmail.com>.
> Moving to Subversion was "strongly suggested" when we drafted the incubator proposal. However, the developers felt that the CVS IDE tools were more mature, and that they would prefer to wait before switching.
So does that mean the matter has been decided already? Were you one
of the "strong suggesters"? No big deal but I thought it might make
sense. The tools for SVN seem fine to me.
> To receive the CVS logs, subscribe to <in...@apache.org>.
I was unable to do this. I tried sending an email to the address you
provided with "subscribe" in the subject. Also,
subscribe-incubator-myfaces-cvs does not work either.
> -Ted.
sean
RE: A few more suggestions
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005, Matthias Wessendorf wrote:
>> I'm not sure what you mean by "instead of". Gump is a different beast
>> entirely, and isn't related to whether you use CVS or SVN.
>> It's more of a
>> continuous integration tool, although its goal is to ensure
>> that changes
>> in one project don't inadvertently break other projects,
>> rather than to
>> work on a project by project basis.
>
> sure like cruise control!
Sort of, except that Gump's focus is more "social".
> Not Gump *instead of* CVS/Subversion ;-)
> instead of migrating process, since we
> here have guys that relay on CVS...
>
> sorry for missunderstanding email...
>
>>> Does anybody know much about GUMP?
>>
>> I'm not an expert by any means. But I know enough to see that
>> MyFaces is
>> already building successfully in Gump. For example, see the log at:
>>
>> http://brutus.apache.org/gump/public/buildLog.html
>
> Ah! I expected, that should be setup by a project,
> but still done.
Each project is typically responsible for maintaining its own Gump
descriptor. That's why all ASF committers have commit access to the Gump
repository. It looks like Stepha Bodewig created the initial descriptor
for MyFaces.
> Do you also know where the nightly builds are stored?
> or aren't they stored?
I don't know if they're stored anywhere. I wouldn't be surprised if
they're not stored. Gump runs on an untrusted machine (brutus), so we
wouldn't really want people relying on binaries from Gump in their own
projects.
>>> Btw. Martin, are you using GUMP inside
>>> of Struts?
>>
>> Gump isn't typically used by projects themselves. Rather,
>> there is a Gump
>> installation that builds just about everything at the ASF (and many
>> projects from elsewhere as well) several times a day. If your project
>> breaks, you will receive "nag" messages telling you that.
>
> thanks for pointing this out!
> that was new for me, that it also builds MyFaces.
I saw your follow-on message about it only building the JSF API. Sorry, I
didn't look deep enough to notice that. Someone will need to update the
descriptor to get it building the rest. I'm not a good person to do that,
since I've never actually tried to build MyFaces. ;-) The Gump descriptor
is here, if anyone is interested:
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/gump/project/myfaces.xml?rev=1.3&view=log
You will also find the Gump community (on general@gump.a.o) friendly and
helpful.
--
Martin Cooper
> -Matthias
>
>> --
>> Martin Cooper
>>
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Matthias
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Martin Cooper [mailto:martinc@apache.org]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 6:35 PM
>>>> To: MyFaces Development
>>>> Subject: Re: A few more suggestions
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 19 Jan 2005, Bill Dudney wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ted,
>>>>>
>>>>> Would it be possible for us to stay in CVS for the next
>> few months
>>>>> then do the conversion? I've not had to do it myself but
>> I've read
>>>> that the cvs2svn
>>>>> script is supposed to do a good job of moving all the
>>>> history over. Once the
>>>>> IDE plugins catch up we could make the jump.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> I'm not Ted ;-) but I would say that shouldn't be a problem -
>>>> depending, of course, on how many months a "few" turns out
>> to be. ;-)
>>>> But we can cross that bridge when we come to it.
>>>>
>>>> The cvs2svn tool does a great job of preserving
>> everything, history
>>>> and all. Once you're ready to make the move, the usual practice
>>>> is to load
>>>> everything into a test repo, let people play around with it
>>>> for a couple
>>>> of days, and then give infrasructure the nod. It should be
>> quick and
>>>> painless for all involved.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Martin Cooper
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -bd-
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 17, 2005, at 4:26 PM, Ted Husted wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Moving to Subversion was "strongly suggested" when we
>> drafted the
>>>>>> incubator proposal. However, the developers felt that the CVS IDE
>>>> tools were more
>>>>>> mature, and that they would prefer to wait before switching.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To receive the CVS logs, subscribe to
>>>>>> <in...@apache.org>.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Ted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:21:00 -0800 (PST), Martin Cooper wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005, Sean Schofield wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have a few more suggestions for the MyFaces
>> development team:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> #1) Consider moving from CVS to Subversion (SVN) when
>>>> its time to
>>>>>>>> leave the incubator. Apache has both types of repositories
>>>>>>>> available. Struts just recently moved to SVN and
>> people like it.
>>>>>>>> I'm not totally familiar with advantages vs.
>>>> disadvantages but it
>>>>>>>> seems to be a lot more flexible. If this is something we'd
>>>>>>>> consider than it would be best to do it at the same time as
>>>>>>>> MyFaces leaves the incubator.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would strongly encourage this. Apart from the fact
>> that all of
>>>>>>> the ASF repositories will eventually be required to
>> move from CVS
>>>>>>> to SVN, SVN really does have some excellent advantages. The two
>>>>>>> biggest, in my experience, are atomic commits (meaning that all
>>>>>>> changes within one commit are handled as a single
>>>> transaction) and
>>>>>>> ease of refactoring. From an infrastructure perspective, using
>>>>>>> moving to SVN means that individual Unix accounts for every
>>>>>>> committer are no longer required.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> #2) Regardless of whether we use SVN or CVS, it would
>> be nice to
>>>>>>>> email the developer's list when users check in. This is a
>>>>>>>> standard practice with other Apache projects and helps
>>>> developers
>>>>>>>> keep track of changes to the codebase.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yep. Not sure why this isn't happening already.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Martin Cooper
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sean
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
RE: A few more suggestions
Posted by Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@matthias-wessendorf.de>.
BTW. seams only build JSF-API,
shipped by MyFaces:
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/gump/project/myfaces.xml?view=markup
How to add the rest?
Must we contact the infrastruce guys on that issue?
-Matthias
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthias Wessendorf [mailto:mailings@matthias-wessendorf.de]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 7:32 PM
> To: 'MyFaces Development'
> Subject: RE: A few more suggestions
>
>
> > I'm not sure what you mean by "instead of". Gump is a
> different beast
> > entirely, and isn't related to whether you use CVS or SVN.
> > It's more of a
> > continuous integration tool, although its goal is to ensure
> > that changes
> > in one project don't inadvertently break other projects,
> > rather than to
> > work on a project by project basis.
>
> sure like cruise control!
> Not Gump *instead of* CVS/Subversion ;-)
> instead of migrating process, since we
> here have guys that relay on CVS...
>
> sorry for missunderstanding email...
>
> > > Does anybody know much about GUMP?
> >
> > I'm not an expert by any means. But I know enough to see that
> > MyFaces is
> > already building successfully in Gump. For example, see the log at:
> >
> > http://brutus.apache.org/gump/public/buildLog.html
>
> Ah! I expected, that should be setup by a project,
> but still done.
>
> Do you also know where the nightly builds are stored?
> or aren't they stored?
>
> > > Btw. Martin, are you using GUMP inside
> > > of Struts?
> >
> > Gump isn't typically used by projects themselves. Rather,
> > there is a Gump
> > installation that builds just about everything at the ASF (and many
> > projects from elsewhere as well) several times a day. If
> your project
> > breaks, you will receive "nag" messages telling you that.
>
> thanks for pointing this out!
> that was new for me, that it also builds MyFaces.
> -Matthias
>
> > --
> > Martin Cooper
> >
> >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Matthias
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Martin Cooper [mailto:martinc@apache.org]
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 6:35 PM
> > >> To: MyFaces Development
> > >> Subject: Re: A few more suggestions
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, 19 Jan 2005, Bill Dudney wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Ted,
> > >>>
> > >>> Would it be possible for us to stay in CVS for the next
> > few months
> > >>> then do the conversion? I've not had to do it myself but
> > I've read
> > >> that the cvs2svn
> > >>> script is supposed to do a good job of moving all the
> > >> history over. Once the
> > >>> IDE plugins catch up we could make the jump.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thoughts?
> > >>
> > >> I'm not Ted ;-) but I would say that shouldn't be a problem -
> > >> depending, of course, on how many months a "few" turns out
> > to be. ;-)
> > >> But we can cross that bridge when we come to it.
> > >>
> > >> The cvs2svn tool does a great job of preserving
> > everything, history
> > >> and all. Once you're ready to make the move, the usual
> practice is
> > >> to load everything into a test repo, let people play
> around with it
> > >> for a couple
> > >> of days, and then give infrasructure the nod. It should be
> > quick and
> > >> painless for all involved.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Martin Cooper
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> -bd-
> > >>>
> > >>> On Jan 17, 2005, at 4:26 PM, Ted Husted wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Moving to Subversion was "strongly suggested" when we
> > drafted the
> > >>>> incubator proposal. However, the developers felt that
> the CVS IDE
> > >> tools were more
> > >>>> mature, and that they would prefer to wait before switching.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> To receive the CVS logs, subscribe to
> > >>>> <in...@apache.org>.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -Ted.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:21:00 -0800 (PST), Martin Cooper wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005, Sean Schofield wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> I have a few more suggestions for the MyFaces
> > development team:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> #1) Consider moving from CVS to Subversion (SVN) when
> > >> its time to
> > >>>>>> leave the incubator. Apache has both types of repositories
> > >>>>>> available. Struts just recently moved to SVN and
> > people like it.
> > >>>>>> I'm not totally familiar with advantages vs.
> > >> disadvantages but it
> > >>>>>> seems to be a lot more flexible. If this is something we'd
> > >>>>>> consider than it would be best to do it at the same time as
> > >>>>>> MyFaces leaves the incubator.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I would strongly encourage this. Apart from the fact
> > that all of
> > >>>>> the ASF repositories will eventually be required to
> > move from CVS
> > >>>>> to SVN, SVN really does have some excellent
> advantages. The two
> > >>>>> biggest, in my experience, are atomic commits
> (meaning that all
> > >>>>> changes within one commit are handled as a single
> > >> transaction) and
> > >>>>> ease of refactoring. From an infrastructure
> perspective, using
> > >>>>> moving to SVN means that individual Unix accounts for every
> > >>>>> committer are no longer required.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> #2) Regardless of whether we use SVN or CVS, it would
> > be nice to
> > >>>>>> email the developer's list when users check in. This is a
> > >>>>>> standard practice with other Apache projects and helps
> > >> developers
> > >>>>>> keep track of changes to the codebase.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Yep. Not sure why this isn't happening already.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> Martin Cooper
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> sean
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>
RE: A few more suggestions
Posted by Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@matthias-wessendorf.de>.
> I'm not sure what you mean by "instead of". Gump is a different beast
> entirely, and isn't related to whether you use CVS or SVN.
> It's more of a
> continuous integration tool, although its goal is to ensure
> that changes
> in one project don't inadvertently break other projects,
> rather than to
> work on a project by project basis.
sure like cruise control!
Not Gump *instead of* CVS/Subversion ;-)
instead of migrating process, since we
here have guys that relay on CVS...
sorry for missunderstanding email...
> > Does anybody know much about GUMP?
>
> I'm not an expert by any means. But I know enough to see that
> MyFaces is
> already building successfully in Gump. For example, see the log at:
>
> http://brutus.apache.org/gump/public/buildLog.html
Ah! I expected, that should be setup by a project,
but still done.
Do you also know where the nightly builds are stored?
or aren't they stored?
> > Btw. Martin, are you using GUMP inside
> > of Struts?
>
> Gump isn't typically used by projects themselves. Rather,
> there is a Gump
> installation that builds just about everything at the ASF (and many
> projects from elsewhere as well) several times a day. If your project
> breaks, you will receive "nag" messages telling you that.
thanks for pointing this out!
that was new for me, that it also builds MyFaces.
-Matthias
> --
> Martin Cooper
>
>
> > Thanks,
> > Matthias
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Martin Cooper [mailto:martinc@apache.org]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 6:35 PM
> >> To: MyFaces Development
> >> Subject: Re: A few more suggestions
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, 19 Jan 2005, Bill Dudney wrote:
> >>
> >>> Ted,
> >>>
> >>> Would it be possible for us to stay in CVS for the next
> few months
> >>> then do the conversion? I've not had to do it myself but
> I've read
> >> that the cvs2svn
> >>> script is supposed to do a good job of moving all the
> >> history over. Once the
> >>> IDE plugins catch up we could make the jump.
> >>>
> >>> Thoughts?
> >>
> >> I'm not Ted ;-) but I would say that shouldn't be a problem -
> >> depending, of course, on how many months a "few" turns out
> to be. ;-)
> >> But we can cross that bridge when we come to it.
> >>
> >> The cvs2svn tool does a great job of preserving
> everything, history
> >> and all. Once you're ready to make the move, the usual practice
> >> is to load
> >> everything into a test repo, let people play around with it
> >> for a couple
> >> of days, and then give infrasructure the nod. It should be
> quick and
> >> painless for all involved.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Martin Cooper
> >>
> >>
> >>> -bd-
> >>>
> >>> On Jan 17, 2005, at 4:26 PM, Ted Husted wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Moving to Subversion was "strongly suggested" when we
> drafted the
> >>>> incubator proposal. However, the developers felt that the CVS IDE
> >> tools were more
> >>>> mature, and that they would prefer to wait before switching.
> >>>>
> >>>> To receive the CVS logs, subscribe to
> >>>> <in...@apache.org>.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Ted.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:21:00 -0800 (PST), Martin Cooper wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005, Sean Schofield wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I have a few more suggestions for the MyFaces
> development team:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> #1) Consider moving from CVS to Subversion (SVN) when
> >> its time to
> >>>>>> leave the incubator. Apache has both types of repositories
> >>>>>> available. Struts just recently moved to SVN and
> people like it.
> >>>>>> I'm not totally familiar with advantages vs.
> >> disadvantages but it
> >>>>>> seems to be a lot more flexible. If this is something we'd
> >>>>>> consider than it would be best to do it at the same time as
> >>>>>> MyFaces leaves the incubator.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I would strongly encourage this. Apart from the fact
> that all of
> >>>>> the ASF repositories will eventually be required to
> move from CVS
> >>>>> to SVN, SVN really does have some excellent advantages. The two
> >>>>> biggest, in my experience, are atomic commits (meaning that all
> >>>>> changes within one commit are handled as a single
> >> transaction) and
> >>>>> ease of refactoring. From an infrastructure perspective, using
> >>>>> moving to SVN means that individual Unix accounts for every
> >>>>> committer are no longer required.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> #2) Regardless of whether we use SVN or CVS, it would
> be nice to
> >>>>>> email the developer's list when users check in. This is a
> >>>>>> standard practice with other Apache projects and helps
> >> developers
> >>>>>> keep track of changes to the codebase.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yep. Not sure why this isn't happening already.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Martin Cooper
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> sean
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
>
RE: A few more suggestions
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005, Matthias Wessendorf wrote:
> I guess it even better to setup
> first GUMP instead of *migrating*
> from CVS to subversion.
I'm not sure what you mean by "instead of". Gump is a different beast
entirely, and isn't related to whether you use CVS or SVN. It's more of a
continuous integration tool, although its goal is to ensure that changes
in one project don't inadvertently break other projects, rather than to
work on a project by project basis.
> Does anybody know much about GUMP?
I'm not an expert by any means. But I know enough to see that MyFaces is
already building successfully in Gump. For example, see the log at:
http://brutus.apache.org/gump/public/buildLog.html
> Btw. Martin, are you using GUMP inside
> of Struts?
Gump isn't typically used by projects themselves. Rather, there is a Gump
installation that builds just about everything at the ASF (and many
projects from elsewhere as well) several times a day. If your project
breaks, you will receive "nag" messages telling you that.
--
Martin Cooper
> Thanks,
> Matthias
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Martin Cooper [mailto:martinc@apache.org]
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 6:35 PM
>> To: MyFaces Development
>> Subject: Re: A few more suggestions
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 19 Jan 2005, Bill Dudney wrote:
>>
>>> Ted,
>>>
>>> Would it be possible for us to stay in CVS for the next few months
>>> then do
>>> the conversion? I've not had to do it myself but I've read
>> that the cvs2svn
>>> script is supposed to do a good job of moving all the
>> history over. Once the
>>> IDE plugins catch up we could make the jump.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>
>> I'm not Ted ;-) but I would say that shouldn't be a problem -
>> depending,
>> of course, on how many months a "few" turns out to be. ;-) But we can
>> cross that bridge when we come to it.
>>
>> The cvs2svn tool does a great job of preserving everything,
>> history and
>> all. Once you're ready to make the move, the usual practice
>> is to load
>> everything into a test repo, let people play around with it
>> for a couple
>> of days, and then give infrasructure the nod. It should be quick and
>> painless for all involved.
>>
>> --
>> Martin Cooper
>>
>>
>>> -bd-
>>>
>>> On Jan 17, 2005, at 4:26 PM, Ted Husted wrote:
>>>
>>>> Moving to Subversion was "strongly suggested" when we drafted the
>>>> incubator
>>>> proposal. However, the developers felt that the CVS IDE
>> tools were more
>>>> mature, and that they would prefer to wait before switching.
>>>>
>>>> To receive the CVS logs, subscribe to
>>>> <in...@apache.org>.
>>>>
>>>> -Ted.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:21:00 -0800 (PST), Martin Cooper wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005, Sean Schofield wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a few more suggestions for the MyFaces development team:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> #1) Consider moving from CVS to Subversion (SVN) when
>> its time to
>>>>>> leave the incubator. Apache has both types of repositories
>>>>>> available. Struts just recently moved to SVN and people like it.
>>>>>> I'm not totally familiar with advantages vs.
>> disadvantages but it
>>>>>> seems to be a lot more flexible. If this is something we'd
>>>>>> consider than it would be best to do it at the same time as
>>>>>> MyFaces leaves the incubator.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I would strongly encourage this. Apart from the fact that all of
>>>>> the ASF repositories will eventually be required to move from CVS
>>>>> to SVN, SVN really does have some excellent advantages. The two
>>>>> biggest, in my experience, are atomic commits (meaning that all
>>>>> changes within one commit are handled as a single
>> transaction) and
>>>>> ease of refactoring. From an infrastructure perspective, using
>>>>> moving to SVN means that individual Unix accounts for every
>>>>> committer are no longer required.
>>>>>
>>>>>> #2) Regardless of whether we use SVN or CVS, it would be nice to
>>>>>> email the developer's list when users check in. This is a
>>>>>> standard practice with other Apache projects and helps
>> developers
>>>>>> keep track of changes to the codebase.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep. Not sure why this isn't happening already.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Martin Cooper
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> sean
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
RE: A few more suggestions
Posted by Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@matthias-wessendorf.de>.
I guess it even better to setup
first GUMP instead of *migrating*
from CVS to subversion.
Does anybody know much about GUMP?
Btw. Martin, are you using GUMP inside
of Struts?
Thanks,
Matthias
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Cooper [mailto:martinc@apache.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 6:35 PM
> To: MyFaces Development
> Subject: Re: A few more suggestions
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 19 Jan 2005, Bill Dudney wrote:
>
> > Ted,
> >
> > Would it be possible for us to stay in CVS for the next few months
> > then do
> > the conversion? I've not had to do it myself but I've read
> that the cvs2svn
> > script is supposed to do a good job of moving all the
> history over. Once the
> > IDE plugins catch up we could make the jump.
> >
> > Thoughts?
>
> I'm not Ted ;-) but I would say that shouldn't be a problem -
> depending,
> of course, on how many months a "few" turns out to be. ;-) But we can
> cross that bridge when we come to it.
>
> The cvs2svn tool does a great job of preserving everything,
> history and
> all. Once you're ready to make the move, the usual practice
> is to load
> everything into a test repo, let people play around with it
> for a couple
> of days, and then give infrasructure the nod. It should be quick and
> painless for all involved.
>
> --
> Martin Cooper
>
>
> > -bd-
> >
> > On Jan 17, 2005, at 4:26 PM, Ted Husted wrote:
> >
> >> Moving to Subversion was "strongly suggested" when we drafted the
> >> incubator
> >> proposal. However, the developers felt that the CVS IDE
> tools were more
> >> mature, and that they would prefer to wait before switching.
> >>
> >> To receive the CVS logs, subscribe to
> >> <in...@apache.org>.
> >>
> >> -Ted.
> >>
> >> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:21:00 -0800 (PST), Martin Cooper wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005, Sean Schofield wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I have a few more suggestions for the MyFaces development team:
> >>>>
> >>>> #1) Consider moving from CVS to Subversion (SVN) when
> its time to
> >>>> leave the incubator. Apache has both types of repositories
> >>>> available. Struts just recently moved to SVN and people like it.
> >>>> I'm not totally familiar with advantages vs.
> disadvantages but it
> >>>> seems to be a lot more flexible. If this is something we'd
> >>>> consider than it would be best to do it at the same time as
> >>>> MyFaces leaves the incubator.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> I would strongly encourage this. Apart from the fact that all of
> >>> the ASF repositories will eventually be required to move from CVS
> >>> to SVN, SVN really does have some excellent advantages. The two
> >>> biggest, in my experience, are atomic commits (meaning that all
> >>> changes within one commit are handled as a single
> transaction) and
> >>> ease of refactoring. From an infrastructure perspective, using
> >>> moving to SVN means that individual Unix accounts for every
> >>> committer are no longer required.
> >>>
> >>>> #2) Regardless of whether we use SVN or CVS, it would be nice to
> >>>> email the developer's list when users check in. This is a
> >>>> standard practice with other Apache projects and helps
> developers
> >>>> keep track of changes to the codebase.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Yep. Not sure why this isn't happening already.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Martin Cooper
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> sean
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
Re: A few more suggestions
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005, Bill Dudney wrote:
> Ted,
>
> Would it be possible for us to stay in CVS for the next few months then do
> the conversion? I've not had to do it myself but I've read that the cvs2svn
> script is supposed to do a good job of moving all the history over. Once the
> IDE plugins catch up we could make the jump.
>
> Thoughts?
I'm not Ted ;-) but I would say that shouldn't be a problem - depending,
of course, on how many months a "few" turns out to be. ;-) But we can
cross that bridge when we come to it.
The cvs2svn tool does a great job of preserving everything, history and
all. Once you're ready to make the move, the usual practice is to load
everything into a test repo, let people play around with it for a couple
of days, and then give infrasructure the nod. It should be quick and
painless for all involved.
--
Martin Cooper
> -bd-
>
> On Jan 17, 2005, at 4:26 PM, Ted Husted wrote:
>
>> Moving to Subversion was "strongly suggested" when we drafted the incubator
>> proposal. However, the developers felt that the CVS IDE tools were more
>> mature, and that they would prefer to wait before switching.
>>
>> To receive the CVS logs, subscribe to <in...@apache.org>.
>>
>> -Ted.
>>
>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:21:00 -0800 (PST), Martin Cooper wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005, Sean Schofield wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a few more suggestions for the MyFaces development team:
>>>>
>>>> #1) Consider moving from CVS to Subversion (SVN) when its time to
>>>> leave the incubator. Apache has both types of repositories
>>>> available. Struts just recently moved to SVN and people like it.
>>>> I'm not totally familiar with advantages vs. disadvantages but it
>>>> seems to be a lot more flexible. If this is something we'd
>>>> consider than it would be best to do it at the same time as
>>>> MyFaces leaves the incubator.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I would strongly encourage this. Apart from the fact that all of
>>> the ASF repositories will eventually be required to move from CVS
>>> to SVN, SVN really does have some excellent advantages. The two
>>> biggest, in my experience, are atomic commits (meaning that all
>>> changes within one commit are handled as a single transaction) and
>>> ease of refactoring. From an infrastructure perspective, using
>>> moving to SVN means that individual Unix accounts for every
>>> committer are no longer required.
>>>
>>>> #2) Regardless of whether we use SVN or CVS, it would be nice to
>>>> email the developer's list when users check in. This is a
>>>> standard practice with other Apache projects and helps developers
>>>> keep track of changes to the codebase.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yep. Not sure why this isn't happening already.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Martin Cooper
>>>
>>>
>>>> sean
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Re: A few more suggestions
Posted by Bill Dudney <bd...@mac.com>.
Ted,
Would it be possible for us to stay in CVS for the next few months then
do the conversion? I've not had to do it myself but I've read that the
cvs2svn script is supposed to do a good job of moving all the history
over. Once the IDE plugins catch up we could make the jump.
Thoughts?
-bd-
On Jan 17, 2005, at 4:26 PM, Ted Husted wrote:
> Moving to Subversion was "strongly suggested" when we drafted the
> incubator proposal. However, the developers felt that the CVS IDE
> tools were more mature, and that they would prefer to wait before
> switching.
>
> To receive the CVS logs, subscribe to
> <in...@apache.org>.
>
> -Ted.
>
> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:21:00 -0800 (PST), Martin Cooper wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005, Sean Schofield wrote:
>>
>>> I have a few more suggestions for the MyFaces development team:
>>>
>>> #1) Consider moving from CVS to Subversion (SVN) when its time to
>>> leave the incubator. Apache has both types of repositories
>>> available. Struts just recently moved to SVN and people like it.
>>> I'm not totally familiar with advantages vs. disadvantages but it
>>> seems to be a lot more flexible. If this is something we'd
>>> consider than it would be best to do it at the same time as
>>> MyFaces leaves the incubator.
>>>
>>
>> I would strongly encourage this. Apart from the fact that all of
>> the ASF repositories will eventually be required to move from CVS
>> to SVN, SVN really does have some excellent advantages. The two
>> biggest, in my experience, are atomic commits (meaning that all
>> changes within one commit are handled as a single transaction) and
>> ease of refactoring. From an infrastructure perspective, using
>> moving to SVN means that individual Unix accounts for every
>> committer are no longer required.
>>
>>> #2) Regardless of whether we use SVN or CVS, it would be nice to
>>> email the developer's list when users check in. This is a
>>> standard practice with other Apache projects and helps developers
>>> keep track of changes to the codebase.
>>>
>>
>> Yep. Not sure why this isn't happening already.
>>
>> --
>> Martin Cooper
>>
>>
>>> sean
>
>
>
Re: A few more suggestions
Posted by Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>.
Moving to Subversion was "strongly suggested" when we drafted the incubator proposal. However, the developers felt that the CVS IDE tools were more mature, and that they would prefer to wait before switching.
To receive the CVS logs, subscribe to <in...@apache.org>.
-Ted.
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:21:00 -0800 (PST), Martin Cooper wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005, Sean Schofield wrote:
>
>> I have a few more suggestions for the MyFaces development team:
>>
>> #1) Consider moving from CVS to Subversion (SVN) when its time to
>> leave the incubator. Apache has both types of repositories
>> available. Struts just recently moved to SVN and people like it.
>> I'm not totally familiar with advantages vs. disadvantages but it
>> seems to be a lot more flexible. If this is something we'd
>> consider than it would be best to do it at the same time as
>> MyFaces leaves the incubator.
>>
>
> I would strongly encourage this. Apart from the fact that all of
> the ASF repositories will eventually be required to move from CVS
> to SVN, SVN really does have some excellent advantages. The two
> biggest, in my experience, are atomic commits (meaning that all
> changes within one commit are handled as a single transaction) and
> ease of refactoring. From an infrastructure perspective, using
> moving to SVN means that individual Unix accounts for every
> committer are no longer required.
>
>> #2) Regardless of whether we use SVN or CVS, it would be nice to
>> email the developer's list when users check in. This is a
>> standard practice with other Apache projects and helps developers
>> keep track of changes to the codebase.
>>
>
> Yep. Not sure why this isn't happening already.
>
> --
> Martin Cooper
>
>
>> sean
Re: A few more suggestions
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005, Sean Schofield wrote:
> I have a few more suggestions for the MyFaces development team:
>
> #1) Consider moving from CVS to Subversion (SVN) when its time to
> leave the incubator. Apache has both types of repositories available.
> Struts just recently moved to SVN and people like it. I'm not
> totally familiar with advantages vs. disadvantages but it seems to be
> a lot more flexible. If this is something we'd consider than it would
> be best to do it at the same time as MyFaces leaves the incubator.
I would strongly encourage this. Apart from the fact that all of the ASF
repositories will eventually be required to move from CVS to SVN, SVN
really does have some excellent advantages. The two biggest, in my
experience, are atomic commits (meaning that all changes within one commit
are handled as a single transaction) and ease of refactoring. From an
infrastructure perspective, using moving to SVN means that individual Unix
accounts for every committer are no longer required.
> #2) Regardless of whether we use SVN or CVS, it would be nice to email
> the developer's list when users check in. This is a standard practice
> with other Apache projects and helps developers keep track of changes
> to the codebase.
Yep. Not sure why this isn't happening already.
--
Martin Cooper
> sean
>