[OT] languages (was: Users list moderators)

[Joerg Heinicke <jo...@gmx.de>]

On 03.02.2004 09:01, Jorg Heymans wrote:

>> The translation is quite simple as Dutch is a mixture of English and 
>> German:
> 
> hmmm some people would argue that english and german are really just 
> spin-offs of Dutch (which itself is ofcourse a spin-off of Flemish - the 
> mother of all languages)

I had this possible chauvinism in mind when writing the above, but I 
wrote it and hoped nobody will feel offended.

>> Dutch   |   German   |   English    
>> ik      |   ich      |   I
>> kan     |   kann     |   can
>> mijn    |   mein     |   my
>> pdf     |   pdf      |   pdf
>> niet    |   nicht    |   not
>> openen  |   öffnen   |   open
>>
>> kunt    |   kannst   |   can
>> u       |   du       |   you
>> mij     |   mir      |   me
>> hierbij |   dabei    |   with it
>> helpen  |   helfen   |   help
>>
> Correct! ("Können Sie" instead of "kannst du" but that's really minor 
> detail).

Is it similar to the English "you can" where there is no difference 
between singular and plural? I thought about it and "kunt u" sounds more 
like the German singular.

> French and spanish bear the same similarities. (so I heard)

Yes, and Italian of course. These languages are based on Latin.

> French
> 
> je
> ne
> peux
> pas
> ouvrir
> mon
> pdf
> 
> pourriez
> vous
> m'
> aider

But this is not as readable and understable for me as the Dutch.

>> Joerg
> 
> Jorg (even our names are similar!)
> :))

I'm also often named Jorg or Jeorg on these mailing lists, which is of 
course not quite correct. In theory it's Jörg, but I use the US-ASCII 
version with replacing ö with oe for avoiding problems in not character 
encoding aware browsers, mail readers, mail archives, etc., e.g. 
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?a=102665966700001&r=1&w=2.

Joerg

Re: [OT] languages (was: Users list moderators)

[Geoff Howard <co...@leverageweb.com>]

Conal Tuohy wrote:

> Jorg and Joerg wrote:
> 
> 
>>>>Dutch   |   German   |   English
>>>>ik      |   ich      |   I
>>>>kan     |   kann     |   can
>>>>mijn    |   mein     |   my
>>>>pdf     |   pdf      |   pdf
>>>>niet    |   nicht    |   not
>>>>openen  |   öffnen   |   open
>>>>
>>>>kunt    |   kannst   |   can
>>>>u       |   du       |   you
>>>>mij     |   mir      |   me
>>>>hierbij |   dabei    |   with it
>>>>helpen  |   helfen   |   help
>>>>
>>>
>>>Correct! ("Können Sie" instead of "kannst du" but that's
>>
>>really minor
>>
>>>detail).
>>
>>Is it similar to the English "you can" where there is no difference
>>between singular and plural? I thought about it and "kunt u"
>>sounds more
>>like the German singular.
> 
> 
> 
> English "you" = singular OR plural, but there is also an archaic singular
> form "thou", though you can use it as a joke - every native English speaker
> knows it. Like "vosotros" in Latin America.
> 
> So it would be more like the German:
> 
> Dutch   |   German   |   English
> 
> kunt    |   kannst   |   canst
> u       |   du       |   thou
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou
> 
> I don't know why we lost "thou". But now in parts of the USA "you" is
> strictly singular, and the correct plural would be "Can y'all help me open
> my pdf?'. I'm not sure how widespread this usage is, though it's certainly
> more common than "thou"!

Interestingly enough, I recently heard that "thou" used to be more 
informal than "you" when they were in simultaneous use - don't know how 
reliable the source was.

Geoff

RE: [OT] languages (was: Users list moderators)

[Conal Tuohy <co...@paradise.net.nz>]

Jorg and Joerg wrote:

> >> Dutch   |   German   |   English
> >> ik      |   ich      |   I
> >> kan     |   kann     |   can
> >> mijn    |   mein     |   my
> >> pdf     |   pdf      |   pdf
> >> niet    |   nicht    |   not
> >> openen  |   öffnen   |   open
> >>
> >> kunt    |   kannst   |   can
> >> u       |   du       |   you
> >> mij     |   mir      |   me
> >> hierbij |   dabei    |   with it
> >> helpen  |   helfen   |   help
> >>
> > Correct! ("Können Sie" instead of "kannst du" but that's
> really minor
> > detail).
>
> Is it similar to the English "you can" where there is no difference
> between singular and plural? I thought about it and "kunt u"
> sounds more
> like the German singular.


English "you" = singular OR plural, but there is also an archaic singular
form "thou", though you can use it as a joke - every native English speaker
knows it. Like "vosotros" in Latin America.

So it would be more like the German:

Dutch   |   German   |   English

kunt    |   kannst   |   canst
u       |   du       |   thou

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou

I don't know why we lost "thou". But now in parts of the USA "you" is
strictly singular, and the correct plural would be "Can y'all help me open
my pdf?'. I'm not sure how widespread this usage is, though it's certainly
more common than "thou"!

Cheers!

Con

Re: [OT] languages

[Jorg Heymans <jh...@domek.be>]

>> Correct! ("Können Sie" instead of "kannst du" but that's really minor 
>> detail).
> 
> 
> Is it similar to the English "you can" where there is no difference 
> between singular and plural? I thought about it and "kunt u" sounds more 
> like the German singular.
"Kunt u" or "u kunt" is the polite form - I think it can be used in both 
plural and singular, my Flemish is a bit rusty to be honest.
Certain englishmen would ofcourse read "u kunt" in a completely 
different way but that's another topic alltogether :)

> I'm also often named Jorg or Jeorg on these mailing lists, which is of 
> course not quite correct. In theory it's Jörg, but I use the US-ASCII 
With me it's just the other way around, all Germans call me Joerg no 
matter how loud i say jOOOOOrg :)

> Joerg
Jorg