Resending mail Outlook still strips out headers

[Steve Dondley <s...@dondley.com>]

I'm trying to train SpamAssassin.  I've set up two mailboxes on my server.
One for spam and one for non-spam.  I'm trying to figure out how to deliver
mail there from my client (Outlook 2000).

There is some advice given on the SpamAssassin web site to not forward mail
but to resend it.  I do that.  But when I look at the raw mail on my server,
none of the original headers are there.  The e-mails all look like the
originally came from me.

What am I doing wrong (besides still using a piece of shit like Outlook)?

Re: Resending mail Outlook still strips out headers

[jdow <jd...@earthlink.net>]

From: "Kris Deugau" <kd...@vianet.ca>

> jdow wrote:
> > Copy it to a folder is probably the best shot if he does not directly
> > export the files as MBOX files. Outlook mangles headers a little, I
> > understand. But it's far easier to deal with than OutlookExpress.
> 
> OE does one thing that Outlook, for whatever stupid reason, does not do.
> 
> It allows you to forward a message as an attachment - ie, the ENTIRE
> RFC822 email message received via POP3 will be wrapped in a MIME part
> without any manglement I've ever seen.

I do NOT forward the email. I copy it to a spam folder. As it happens
that spam folder is am IMAP folder which is in mbox format. So it's
moderately easy to train on that mbox format with a little effort.
Outlook will EXPORT the spam folder in mbox format, I understand. That
is what you'd want to do rather than try to forward the email. It should
preserve as much of the header as Outlook has available.

> Aside from the fact that OE leaks nastyware like a sieve, from the point
> of view of ISP tech support I prefer OE to Outlook for this reason, and
> the fact that #@%$%%!!! Outlook has to change its entire interface every
> new version.

The leakage is one reason I will not touch Outlook itself. OE with a
very modest amount of user discipline has been 100% safe here. Outlook
has traditionally had behaviors that make even receiving a bad email
dangerous whether or not you read it. So...

{^_^}

Re: Resending mail Outlook still strips out headers

[Rob MacGregor <ro...@gmail.com>]

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:53:11 -0500, Kris Deugau <kd...@vianet.ca> wrote:
> OE does one thing that Outlook, for whatever stupid reason, does not do.
> 
> It allows you to forward a message as an attachment - ie, the ENTIRE
> RFC822 email message received via POP3 will be wrapped in a MIME part
> without any manglement I've ever seen.
> 
> Outlook (of most versions) can't do this - or at least, can't do it very
> easily.  I can't imagine why.  (Neither can Eudora.  But Eudora is a
> basket^Wspecial case anyway.  <g>)

Well, Outlook 2003 does it if you select to forward the message as an
attachment.  It then forwards the mail "as is" as an attachment.

I can't speak for older versions as I don't have any to hand to test with.
 
-- 
                 Please keep list traffic on the list.
Rob MacGregor
      Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
        doesn't become a monster.                  Friedrich Nietzsche

Re: Resending mail Outlook still strips out headers

[Kris Deugau <kd...@vianet.ca>]

jdow wrote:
> Copy it to a folder is probably the best shot if he does not directly
> export the files as MBOX files. Outlook mangles headers a little, I
> understand. But it's far easier to deal with than OutlookExpress.

OE does one thing that Outlook, for whatever stupid reason, does not do.

It allows you to forward a message as an attachment - ie, the ENTIRE
RFC822 email message received via POP3 will be wrapped in a MIME part
without any manglement I've ever seen.

Outlook (of most versions) can't do this - or at least, can't do it very
easily.  I can't imagine why.  (Neither can Eudora.  But Eudora is a
basket^Wspecial case anyway.  <g>)

Aside from the fact that OE leaks nastyware like a sieve, from the point
of view of ISP tech support I prefer OE to Outlook for this reason, and
the fact that #@%$%%!!! Outlook has to change its entire interface every
new version.

-kgd
-- 
Get your mouse off of there!  You don't know where that email has been!

Re: Resending mail Outlook still strips out headers

[jdow <jd...@earthlink.net>]

Copy it to a folder is probably the best shot if he does not directly
export the files as MBOX files. Outlook mangles headers a little, I
understand. But it's far easier to deal with than OutlookExpress.
(Express - - is'nt that doctor talk for popping zits?)

{^_^}
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Loren Wilton" <lw...@earthlink.net>


> > What am I doing wrong (besides still using a piece of shit like
Outlook)?
>
> Thats the problem in a nutshell.  :-(  Even Outlook Depress, er, Express
can
> manage better than Outlook.
>
> If you have set up an IMAP folder for Outlook, I *think* you *should* be
> able to "move" or "copy" or drag/drop the message into the imap folder.
> This *should* preserve as much of the headers that Outlook hasn't already
> trashed.  This works fine on OE.
>
> Oh wait.  You said *resend* it.  No, that won't work, it indeed will make
it
> come from you.
>
> The two functional methods are either using a folder you can drag the
> message to, or send the spam *as an attachment* to some target that will
> strip the included spam message out of the new message.
>
> The IMAP trick is probably the simplest to implement.  Once you have an
IMAP
> folder or two on the SA server and can drop spam/ham there, about all you
> need is a cron job to suck up the stuff to learn once a day and then
delete
> the stuff from the folder.
>
>         Loren

Re: Resending mail Outlook still strips out headers

[Loren Wilton <lw...@earthlink.net>]

> What am I doing wrong (besides still using a piece of shit like Outlook)?

Thats the problem in a nutshell.  :-(  Even Outlook Depress, er, Express can
manage better than Outlook.

If you have set up an IMAP folder for Outlook, I *think* you *should* be
able to "move" or "copy" or drag/drop the message into the imap folder.
This *should* preserve as much of the headers that Outlook hasn't already
trashed.  This works fine on OE.

Oh wait.  You said *resend* it.  No, that won't work, it indeed will make it
come from you.

The two functional methods are either using a folder you can drag the
message to, or send the spam *as an attachment* to some target that will
strip the included spam message out of the new message.

The IMAP trick is probably the simplest to implement.  Once you have an IMAP
folder or two on the SA server and can drop spam/ham there, about all you
need is a cron job to suck up the stuff to learn once a day and then delete
the stuff from the folder.

        Loren

Re: Resending mail Outlook still strips out headers

[jdow <jd...@earthlink.net>]

If you are doing a one person server Outlook makes life easy. I
understand it can directly export an mbox format file. Do that
periodically and use the exported data to train the bayes filters.

With Outlook Express it is VASTLY more involved and a pain in the
<sit-upon-part-of-the-body> to implement. I know. I use OE and so
does Loren. I hacked a method that works. But setting it up requires
very specialized configurations. (I am utterly amazed that I managed
it with postfix. It presented the challenge. I met it - in Mandrake
10.1, which is severely TCP/IP tool challenged. (Of course, it is
infinitely better than that "thing" called Fedora. But let's not
war about it here. I just needed to vent a little. Treat it as that
and nothing more.)

{^_-}
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Dondley" <s...@dondley.com>


> I'm trying to train SpamAssassin.  I've set up two mailboxes on my server.
> One for spam and one for non-spam.  I'm trying to figure out how to
deliver
> mail there from my client (Outlook 2000).
>
> There is some advice given on the SpamAssassin web site to not forward
mail
> but to resend it.  I do that.  But when I look at the raw mail on my
server,
> none of the original headers are there.  The e-mails all look like the
> originally came from me.
>
> What am I doing wrong (besides still using a piece of shit like Outlook)?

Re: Resending mail Outlook still strips out headers

[Steven Stern <su...@sterndata.com>]

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 06:39:38 -0500, "Steve Dondley" <s...@dondley.com> wrote:

>I'm trying to train SpamAssassin.  I've set up two mailboxes on my server.
>One for spam and one for non-spam.  I'm trying to figure out how to deliver
>mail there from my client (Outlook 2000).
>
>There is some advice given on the SpamAssassin web site to not forward mail
>but to resend it.  I do that.  But when I look at the raw mail on my server,
>none of the original headers are there.  The e-mails all look like the
>originally came from me.
>
>What am I doing wrong (besides still using a piece of shit like Outlook)?

You can't do it if you're popping from Outlook. I get around it by setting
Outlook to POP but "Leave mail on server for 2 days".  I also have Outlook set
to make an IMAP connection to my server. When SA misses a spam, I use the IMAP
account in Outlook to move the message to a "spam" folder.  I run a cron job
twice a day:

sa-learn --dbpath /var/spool/spamassassin/bayes --mbox  --spam
/home/*/mail/spam

to pick up mail moved into the "spam" folders.


-- 
  Steve