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Posted to soap-user@xml.apache.org by soap beginner <so...@yahoo.co.uk> on 2001/09/29 10:27:37 UTC
SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
We have a requirement do let a client call services on
our server using XML messages. We think SOAP fits this
bill. However , we have problems persuading the
cusomter to use HTTP. Is it too much of an overhead to
use SOAP over RMI? Are they meant to be a similar
thing?
This isn't the main point of my question.
If we decided that we were going to use SOAP over RMI,
we need a good way to access SOAP on the server side.
ie bypassing the servlet. I have looked at the source
code for the servlet. It does a lot of stuff HTTP
dependant. I have also looked at RPCRouter.java. This
seems to be what I need to call SOAP from a stateless
session EJB for example. However I think I could give
Envelope.unmarshall an XML SOAP document, but from
what I can see this is far away from what I need to
do.
I suspect the SOAP services will still be administered
using the servlet. The issue I think I will have will
be classloaders in WLS 6.1. ie the WAR file where SOAP
will be, would be in a child classloader of the EJB
(in the same EAR). Therefore any servicemanager
objects or any singletons may exist more than once.
Will this be a problem? Has anybody got any example
code to go from a SOAP request XML document, to a
calling a SOAP service (living in the same process),
but administered by the web app?
I hope this makes a little bit fo sense ;-)
Any help appreciated
Paul
____________________________________________________________
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RE: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
Posted by graham glass <gr...@mindspring.com>.
try GLUE: http://www.themindelectric.com
cheers,
graham
-----Original Message-----
From: soap beginner [mailto:soapbeginner@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 4:45 AM
To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
Subject: Re: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
No we hava a VB Client, but s strict requirment to
communicate using XML. We cannot use HTTP. We may add
more clients eventually, or be able to use HTTP. Why
write something to interpret XML to call services when
its already been done?
The client will be taking to use using COM or RMI.
I don't see any other option. CORBA would maybe be an
option, but the XML requirement is stuck. Also SOAP
will give us very loose coupling between Client and
server. Does this make sense?
Also I could use a good answer to my RPCRouter
questions.
Thanks again
Paul
--- Dmitri Colebatch <di...@bigpond.net.au> wrote: >
let me get this straight... you're going to have a
> Java client, and a Java
> server, and do the communication over RMI, but have
> the method invocation
> done using SOAP? By the sounds of things you
> realise this isn't exactly,
> ahem, ideal,... but are having trouble convincing a
> client?
>
> IMHO:
>
> RMI: where you can, if you have Java client, Java
> server, no firewall
> SOAP/HTTP: if you have to communicate over firewall,
> or maybe if you have
> a non-Java client/server (but then I'd think CORBA
> would fit the bill
> better wouldn't it?)
>
> SOAP/RMI seems pointless to me... which I hope is
> simply concurring with
> your statement.
>
> cheers
> dim
>
> On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, [iso-8859-1] soap beginner
> wrote:
>
> > We have a requirement do let a client call
> services on
> > our server using XML messages. We think SOAP fits
> this
> > bill. However , we have problems persuading the
> > cusomter to use HTTP. Is it too much of an
> overhead to
> > use SOAP over RMI? Are they meant to be a similar
> > thing?
> >
> > This isn't the main point of my question.
> > If we decided that we were going to use SOAP over
> RMI,
> > we need a good way to access SOAP on the server
> side.
> > ie bypassing the servlet. I have looked at the
> source
> > code for the servlet. It does a lot of stuff HTTP
> > dependant. I have also looked at RPCRouter.java.
> This
> > seems to be what I need to call SOAP from a
> stateless
> > session EJB for example. However I think I could
> give
> > Envelope.unmarshall an XML SOAP document, but from
> > what I can see this is far away from what I need
> to
> > do.
> > I suspect the SOAP services will still be
> administered
> > using the servlet. The issue I think I will have
> will
> > be classloaders in WLS 6.1. ie the WAR file where
> SOAP
> > will be, would be in a child classloader of the
> EJB
> > (in the same EAR). Therefore any servicemanager
> > objects or any singletons may exist more than
> once.
> > Will this be a problem? Has anybody got any
> example
> > code to go from a SOAP request XML document, to a
> > calling a SOAP service (living in the same
> process),
> > but administered by the web app?
> >
> > I hope this makes a little bit fo sense ;-)
> >
> > Any help appreciated
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> > or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> http://mail.yahoo.ie
> >
>
____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
RE: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
Posted by soap beginner <so...@yahoo.co.uk>.
I am happy to pass XML as a big string.
So problem solved!
However now for RPCrRouter usage.
--- Francis Ho <fh...@post.com> wrote: >
> well, now I am getting confused. Please clarify
> your requirements, are you
> required to make use of XML-RPC calls or are you
> just passing XML data?
>
> If you are just passing XML data, you can pass it as
> a big string using RMI,
> CORBA, JMS or whatever. Or if you have a primarily
> Java components, why not
> just pass serialised JavaBeans (ala RMI), and just
> transform them at your VB
> endpoints into XML using something like JAXB.
>
>
> francis
>
>
>
>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: soap beginner
> [mailto:soapbeginner@yahoo.co.uk]
> >> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 7:10 AM
> >> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
> >>
> >>
> >> I am still slightly confused.
> >> The number one factor is the data to be exchanged
> is
> >> XML.
> >> Yes servers are written in Java.
> >> We have a client side interface to RMI,
> J-Integra. We
> >> will also consider using JMS for asynchronous
> versions
> >> of the calls.
> >> I DO NOT understand what the problem is with
> using
> >> SOAP over RMI or COM, except for bandwith
> increase.
> >>
> >> At the simplest level we have a basic requirement
> for
> >> XML communication. Should I waste my time and
> write a
> >> XML RPC over RMI? I am sure my non-standard
> solution
> >> would be a waste of time. If its already written
> use
> >> it.
> >> I could write XML RPC over CORBA as suggested,
> but I
> >> would still prefer to use the SOAP engine to
> process
> >> XML messages. So CORBA/RMI whats the
> difference?, the
> >> point is use SOAP to process the XML.
> >>
> >> I may be missing the point, but what is the
> choice.
> >>
> >> Secondly, one of my questions still remains
> >> unanswered, does anybody have examples of usage
> of
> >> RPCRouter.java.
> >> The complext of RCPRoter Serlvet astounds me ;-)I
> >> could take the time to learn it, but I assume I
> will
> >> not just have to learn the api of it, but of most
> of
> >> the other stuff to.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- Francis Ho <fh...@post.com> wrote: > SOAP is a
> wire
> >> level protocol similar to RMI's JRMP
> >> > or IIOP.
> >> >
> >> > Now to clarify your requirements even further.
> >> >
> >> > 1) You have a number of VB clients.
> >> > 2) Your data format to exchange between clients
> and
> >> > servers is to be XML.
> >> > 3) Your servers/services are written in Java
> (from
> >> > your WLS references).
> >> > 4) The actual communication protocol is still
> >> > open-ended.
> >> > 5) You seem to have everything within the same
> >> > network (e.g. no firewall
> >> > issues)
> >> >
> >> > With #4 open, there are many choices available
> to
> >> > accomplish what you need.
> >> > JMS, there are a number of implementations that
> >> > provide COM interfaces
> >> > IIOP, CORBA or even RMI/iiop
> >> > classic RMI over JRMP, this is a little bit
> tricker
> >> > as you need some type of
> >> > client site interface to COM -- this client
> site
> >> > interface can translate
> >> > your pure Java objects (ala JAXB) into XML for
> VB
> >> > consumption. To talk to
> >> > COM, you can try a number of COM bridges.
> >> >
> >> > I hope this helps,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > francis
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > >> -----Original Message-----
> >> > >> From: soap beginner
> >> > [mailto:soapbeginner@yahoo.co.uk]
> >> > >> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 5:45 AM
> >> > >> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
> >> > >> Subject: Re: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> No we hava a VB Client, but s strict
> requirment
> >> > to
> >> > >> communicate using XML. We cannot use HTTP.
> We may
> >> > add
> >> > >> more clients eventually, or be able to use
> HTTP.
> >> > Why
> >> > >> write something to interpret XML to call
> services
> >> > when
> >> > >> its already been done?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> The client will be taking to use using COM
> or
> >> > RMI.
> >> > >> I don't see any other option. CORBA would
> maybe
> >> > be an
> >> > >> option, but the XML requirement is stuck.
> Also
> >> > SOAP
> >> > >> will give us very loose coupling between
> Client
> >> > and
> >> > >> server. Does this make sense?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Also I could use a good answer to my
> RPCRouter
> >> > >> questions.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Thanks again
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Paul
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> --- Dmitri Colebatch <di...@bigpond.net.au>
> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> let me get this straight... you're going to
> have
> >> > a
> >> > >> > Java client, and a Java
> >> > >> > server, and do the communication over RMI,
> but
> >> > have
> >> > >> > the method invocation
> >> > >> > done using SOAP? By the sounds of things
> you
> >> > >> > realise this isn't exactly,
> >> > >> > ahem, ideal,... but are having trouble
> >> > convincing a
> >> > >> > client?
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > IMHO:
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > RMI: where you can, if you have Java
> client,
> >> > Java
> >> > >> > server, no firewall
> >> > >> > SOAP/HTTP: if you have to communicate over
> >> > firewall,
> >> > >> > or maybe if you have
> >> > >> > a non-Java client/server (but then I'd
> think
> >> > CORBA
> >> > >> > would fit the bill
>
=== message truncated ===
____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
RE: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
Posted by soap beginner <so...@yahoo.co.uk>.
I am happy to pass XML as a big string.
So problem solved!
However now for RPCrRouter usage.
--- Francis Ho <fh...@post.com> wrote: >
> well, now I am getting confused. Please clarify
> your requirements, are you
> required to make use of XML-RPC calls or are you
> just passing XML data?
>
> If you are just passing XML data, you can pass it as
> a big string using RMI,
> CORBA, JMS or whatever. Or if you have a primarily
> Java components, why not
> just pass serialised JavaBeans (ala RMI), and just
> transform them at your VB
> endpoints into XML using something like JAXB.
>
>
> francis
>
>
>
>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: soap beginner
> [mailto:soapbeginner@yahoo.co.uk]
> >> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 7:10 AM
> >> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
> >>
> >>
> >> I am still slightly confused.
> >> The number one factor is the data to be exchanged
> is
> >> XML.
> >> Yes servers are written in Java.
> >> We have a client side interface to RMI,
> J-Integra. We
> >> will also consider using JMS for asynchronous
> versions
> >> of the calls.
> >> I DO NOT understand what the problem is with
> using
> >> SOAP over RMI or COM, except for bandwith
> increase.
> >>
> >> At the simplest level we have a basic requirement
> for
> >> XML communication. Should I waste my time and
> write a
> >> XML RPC over RMI? I am sure my non-standard
> solution
> >> would be a waste of time. If its already written
> use
> >> it.
> >> I could write XML RPC over CORBA as suggested,
> but I
> >> would still prefer to use the SOAP engine to
> process
> >> XML messages. So CORBA/RMI whats the
> difference?, the
> >> point is use SOAP to process the XML.
> >>
> >> I may be missing the point, but what is the
> choice.
> >>
> >> Secondly, one of my questions still remains
> >> unanswered, does anybody have examples of usage
> of
> >> RPCRouter.java.
> >> The complext of RCPRoter Serlvet astounds me ;-)I
> >> could take the time to learn it, but I assume I
> will
> >> not just have to learn the api of it, but of most
> of
> >> the other stuff to.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- Francis Ho <fh...@post.com> wrote: > SOAP is a
> wire
> >> level protocol similar to RMI's JRMP
> >> > or IIOP.
> >> >
> >> > Now to clarify your requirements even further.
> >> >
> >> > 1) You have a number of VB clients.
> >> > 2) Your data format to exchange between clients
> and
> >> > servers is to be XML.
> >> > 3) Your servers/services are written in Java
> (from
> >> > your WLS references).
> >> > 4) The actual communication protocol is still
> >> > open-ended.
> >> > 5) You seem to have everything within the same
> >> > network (e.g. no firewall
> >> > issues)
> >> >
> >> > With #4 open, there are many choices available
> to
> >> > accomplish what you need.
> >> > JMS, there are a number of implementations that
> >> > provide COM interfaces
> >> > IIOP, CORBA or even RMI/iiop
> >> > classic RMI over JRMP, this is a little bit
> tricker
> >> > as you need some type of
> >> > client site interface to COM -- this client
> site
> >> > interface can translate
> >> > your pure Java objects (ala JAXB) into XML for
> VB
> >> > consumption. To talk to
> >> > COM, you can try a number of COM bridges.
> >> >
> >> > I hope this helps,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > francis
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > >> -----Original Message-----
> >> > >> From: soap beginner
> >> > [mailto:soapbeginner@yahoo.co.uk]
> >> > >> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 5:45 AM
> >> > >> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
> >> > >> Subject: Re: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> No we hava a VB Client, but s strict
> requirment
> >> > to
> >> > >> communicate using XML. We cannot use HTTP.
> We may
> >> > add
> >> > >> more clients eventually, or be able to use
> HTTP.
> >> > Why
> >> > >> write something to interpret XML to call
> services
> >> > when
> >> > >> its already been done?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> The client will be taking to use using COM
> or
> >> > RMI.
> >> > >> I don't see any other option. CORBA would
> maybe
> >> > be an
> >> > >> option, but the XML requirement is stuck.
> Also
> >> > SOAP
> >> > >> will give us very loose coupling between
> Client
> >> > and
> >> > >> server. Does this make sense?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Also I could use a good answer to my
> RPCRouter
> >> > >> questions.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Thanks again
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Paul
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> --- Dmitri Colebatch <di...@bigpond.net.au>
> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> let me get this straight... you're going to
> have
> >> > a
> >> > >> > Java client, and a Java
> >> > >> > server, and do the communication over RMI,
> but
> >> > have
> >> > >> > the method invocation
> >> > >> > done using SOAP? By the sounds of things
> you
> >> > >> > realise this isn't exactly,
> >> > >> > ahem, ideal,... but are having trouble
> >> > convincing a
> >> > >> > client?
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > IMHO:
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > RMI: where you can, if you have Java
> client,
> >> > Java
> >> > >> > server, no firewall
> >> > >> > SOAP/HTTP: if you have to communicate over
> >> > firewall,
> >> > >> > or maybe if you have
> >> > >> > a non-Java client/server (but then I'd
> think
> >> > CORBA
> >> > >> > would fit the bill
>
=== message truncated ===
____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
RE: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
Posted by Francis Ho <fh...@post.com>.
well, now I am getting confused. Please clarify your requirements, are you
required to make use of XML-RPC calls or are you just passing XML data?
If you are just passing XML data, you can pass it as a big string using RMI,
CORBA, JMS or whatever. Or if you have a primarily Java components, why not
just pass serialised JavaBeans (ala RMI), and just transform them at your VB
endpoints into XML using something like JAXB.
francis
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: soap beginner [mailto:soapbeginner@yahoo.co.uk]
>> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 7:10 AM
>> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
>> Subject: RE: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
>>
>>
>> I am still slightly confused.
>> The number one factor is the data to be exchanged is
>> XML.
>> Yes servers are written in Java.
>> We have a client side interface to RMI, J-Integra. We
>> will also consider using JMS for asynchronous versions
>> of the calls.
>> I DO NOT understand what the problem is with using
>> SOAP over RMI or COM, except for bandwith increase.
>>
>> At the simplest level we have a basic requirement for
>> XML communication. Should I waste my time and write a
>> XML RPC over RMI? I am sure my non-standard solution
>> would be a waste of time. If its already written use
>> it.
>> I could write XML RPC over CORBA as suggested, but I
>> would still prefer to use the SOAP engine to process
>> XML messages. So CORBA/RMI whats the difference?, the
>> point is use SOAP to process the XML.
>>
>> I may be missing the point, but what is the choice.
>>
>> Secondly, one of my questions still remains
>> unanswered, does anybody have examples of usage of
>> RPCRouter.java.
>> The complext of RCPRoter Serlvet astounds me ;-)I
>> could take the time to learn it, but I assume I will
>> not just have to learn the api of it, but of most of
>> the other stuff to.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Francis Ho <fh...@post.com> wrote: > SOAP is a wire
>> level protocol similar to RMI's JRMP
>> > or IIOP.
>> >
>> > Now to clarify your requirements even further.
>> >
>> > 1) You have a number of VB clients.
>> > 2) Your data format to exchange between clients and
>> > servers is to be XML.
>> > 3) Your servers/services are written in Java (from
>> > your WLS references).
>> > 4) The actual communication protocol is still
>> > open-ended.
>> > 5) You seem to have everything within the same
>> > network (e.g. no firewall
>> > issues)
>> >
>> > With #4 open, there are many choices available to
>> > accomplish what you need.
>> > JMS, there are a number of implementations that
>> > provide COM interfaces
>> > IIOP, CORBA or even RMI/iiop
>> > classic RMI over JRMP, this is a little bit tricker
>> > as you need some type of
>> > client site interface to COM -- this client site
>> > interface can translate
>> > your pure Java objects (ala JAXB) into XML for VB
>> > consumption. To talk to
>> > COM, you can try a number of COM bridges.
>> >
>> > I hope this helps,
>> >
>> >
>> > francis
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > >> From: soap beginner
>> > [mailto:soapbeginner@yahoo.co.uk]
>> > >> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 5:45 AM
>> > >> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
>> > >> Subject: Re: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> No we hava a VB Client, but s strict requirment
>> > to
>> > >> communicate using XML. We cannot use HTTP. We may
>> > add
>> > >> more clients eventually, or be able to use HTTP.
>> > Why
>> > >> write something to interpret XML to call services
>> > when
>> > >> its already been done?
>> > >>
>> > >> The client will be taking to use using COM or
>> > RMI.
>> > >> I don't see any other option. CORBA would maybe
>> > be an
>> > >> option, but the XML requirement is stuck. Also
>> > SOAP
>> > >> will give us very loose coupling between Client
>> > and
>> > >> server. Does this make sense?
>> > >>
>> > >> Also I could use a good answer to my RPCRouter
>> > >> questions.
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks again
>> > >>
>> > >> Paul
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> --- Dmitri Colebatch <di...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> let me get this straight... you're going to have
>> > a
>> > >> > Java client, and a Java
>> > >> > server, and do the communication over RMI, but
>> > have
>> > >> > the method invocation
>> > >> > done using SOAP? By the sounds of things you
>> > >> > realise this isn't exactly,
>> > >> > ahem, ideal,... but are having trouble
>> > convincing a
>> > >> > client?
>> > >> >
>> > >> > IMHO:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > RMI: where you can, if you have Java client,
>> > Java
>> > >> > server, no firewall
>> > >> > SOAP/HTTP: if you have to communicate over
>> > firewall,
>> > >> > or maybe if you have
>> > >> > a non-Java client/server (but then I'd think
>> > CORBA
>> > >> > would fit the bill
>> > >> > better wouldn't it?)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > SOAP/RMI seems pointless to me... which I hope
>> > is
>> > >> > simply concurring with
>> > >> > your statement.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > cheers
>> > >> > dim
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, [iso-8859-1] soap beginner
>> > >> > wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > We have a requirement do let a client call
>> > >> > services on
>> > >> > > our server using XML messages. We think SOAP
>> > fits
>> > >> > this
>> > >> > > bill. However , we have problems persuading
>> > the
>> > >> > > cusomter to use HTTP. Is it too much of an
>> > >> > overhead to
>> > >> > > use SOAP over RMI? Are they meant to be a
>> > similar
>> > >> > > thing?
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > This isn't the main point of my question.
>> > >> > > If we decided that we were going to use SOAP
>> > over
>> > >> > RMI,
>> > >> > > we need a good way to access SOAP on the
>> > server
>> > >> > side.
>> > >> > > ie bypassing the servlet. I have looked at
>> > the
>> > >> > source
>> > >> > > code for the servlet. It does a lot of stuff
>> > HTTP
>> > >> > > dependant. I have also looked at
>> > RPCRouter.java.
>> > >> > This
>> > >> > > seems to be what I need to call SOAP from a
>> > >> > stateless
>> > >> > > session EJB for example. However I think I
>> > could
>> > >> > give
>> > >> > > Envelope.unmarshall an XML SOAP document, but
>> > from
>> > >> > > what I can see this is far away from what I
>> > need
>> > >> > to
>> > >> > > do.
>> > >> > > I suspect the SOAP services will still be
>> > >> > administered
>> > >> > > using the servlet. The issue I think I will
>> > have
>> > >> > will
>> > >> > > be classloaders in WLS 6.1. ie the WAR file
>> > where
>> > >> > SOAP
>> > >> > > will be, would be in a child classloader of
>> > the
>> > >> > EJB
>> > >> > > (in the same EAR). Therefore any
>> > servicemanager
>> > >> > > objects or any singletons may exist more than
>> > >> > once.
>> > >> > > Will this be a problem? Has anybody got any
>> > >> > example
>> > >> > > code to go from a SOAP request XML document,
>> > to a
>> > >> > > calling a SOAP service (living in the same
>> > >> > process),
>> > >> > > but administered by the web app?
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > I hope this makes a little bit fo sense ;-)
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Any help appreciated
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Paul
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> >
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> > >> > > Do You Yahoo!?
>> > >> > > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
>> > >> > http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
>> > >> > > or your free @yahoo.ie address at
>> > >> > http://mail.yahoo.ie
>> > >> > >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> >
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> > >> Do You Yahoo!?
>> > >> Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
>> > http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
>> > >> or your free @yahoo.ie address at
>> > http://mail.yahoo.ie
>> >
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
>> or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
RE: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
Posted by Francis Ho <fh...@post.com>.
well, now I am getting confused. Please clarify your requirements, are you
required to make use of XML-RPC calls or are you just passing XML data?
If you are just passing XML data, you can pass it as a big string using RMI,
CORBA, JMS or whatever. Or if you have a primarily Java components, why not
just pass serialised JavaBeans (ala RMI), and just transform them at your VB
endpoints into XML using something like JAXB.
francis
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: soap beginner [mailto:soapbeginner@yahoo.co.uk]
>> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 7:10 AM
>> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
>> Subject: RE: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
>>
>>
>> I am still slightly confused.
>> The number one factor is the data to be exchanged is
>> XML.
>> Yes servers are written in Java.
>> We have a client side interface to RMI, J-Integra. We
>> will also consider using JMS for asynchronous versions
>> of the calls.
>> I DO NOT understand what the problem is with using
>> SOAP over RMI or COM, except for bandwith increase.
>>
>> At the simplest level we have a basic requirement for
>> XML communication. Should I waste my time and write a
>> XML RPC over RMI? I am sure my non-standard solution
>> would be a waste of time. If its already written use
>> it.
>> I could write XML RPC over CORBA as suggested, but I
>> would still prefer to use the SOAP engine to process
>> XML messages. So CORBA/RMI whats the difference?, the
>> point is use SOAP to process the XML.
>>
>> I may be missing the point, but what is the choice.
>>
>> Secondly, one of my questions still remains
>> unanswered, does anybody have examples of usage of
>> RPCRouter.java.
>> The complext of RCPRoter Serlvet astounds me ;-)I
>> could take the time to learn it, but I assume I will
>> not just have to learn the api of it, but of most of
>> the other stuff to.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Francis Ho <fh...@post.com> wrote: > SOAP is a wire
>> level protocol similar to RMI's JRMP
>> > or IIOP.
>> >
>> > Now to clarify your requirements even further.
>> >
>> > 1) You have a number of VB clients.
>> > 2) Your data format to exchange between clients and
>> > servers is to be XML.
>> > 3) Your servers/services are written in Java (from
>> > your WLS references).
>> > 4) The actual communication protocol is still
>> > open-ended.
>> > 5) You seem to have everything within the same
>> > network (e.g. no firewall
>> > issues)
>> >
>> > With #4 open, there are many choices available to
>> > accomplish what you need.
>> > JMS, there are a number of implementations that
>> > provide COM interfaces
>> > IIOP, CORBA or even RMI/iiop
>> > classic RMI over JRMP, this is a little bit tricker
>> > as you need some type of
>> > client site interface to COM -- this client site
>> > interface can translate
>> > your pure Java objects (ala JAXB) into XML for VB
>> > consumption. To talk to
>> > COM, you can try a number of COM bridges.
>> >
>> > I hope this helps,
>> >
>> >
>> > francis
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > >> From: soap beginner
>> > [mailto:soapbeginner@yahoo.co.uk]
>> > >> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 5:45 AM
>> > >> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
>> > >> Subject: Re: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> No we hava a VB Client, but s strict requirment
>> > to
>> > >> communicate using XML. We cannot use HTTP. We may
>> > add
>> > >> more clients eventually, or be able to use HTTP.
>> > Why
>> > >> write something to interpret XML to call services
>> > when
>> > >> its already been done?
>> > >>
>> > >> The client will be taking to use using COM or
>> > RMI.
>> > >> I don't see any other option. CORBA would maybe
>> > be an
>> > >> option, but the XML requirement is stuck. Also
>> > SOAP
>> > >> will give us very loose coupling between Client
>> > and
>> > >> server. Does this make sense?
>> > >>
>> > >> Also I could use a good answer to my RPCRouter
>> > >> questions.
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks again
>> > >>
>> > >> Paul
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> --- Dmitri Colebatch <di...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> let me get this straight... you're going to have
>> > a
>> > >> > Java client, and a Java
>> > >> > server, and do the communication over RMI, but
>> > have
>> > >> > the method invocation
>> > >> > done using SOAP? By the sounds of things you
>> > >> > realise this isn't exactly,
>> > >> > ahem, ideal,... but are having trouble
>> > convincing a
>> > >> > client?
>> > >> >
>> > >> > IMHO:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > RMI: where you can, if you have Java client,
>> > Java
>> > >> > server, no firewall
>> > >> > SOAP/HTTP: if you have to communicate over
>> > firewall,
>> > >> > or maybe if you have
>> > >> > a non-Java client/server (but then I'd think
>> > CORBA
>> > >> > would fit the bill
>> > >> > better wouldn't it?)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > SOAP/RMI seems pointless to me... which I hope
>> > is
>> > >> > simply concurring with
>> > >> > your statement.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > cheers
>> > >> > dim
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, [iso-8859-1] soap beginner
>> > >> > wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > We have a requirement do let a client call
>> > >> > services on
>> > >> > > our server using XML messages. We think SOAP
>> > fits
>> > >> > this
>> > >> > > bill. However , we have problems persuading
>> > the
>> > >> > > cusomter to use HTTP. Is it too much of an
>> > >> > overhead to
>> > >> > > use SOAP over RMI? Are they meant to be a
>> > similar
>> > >> > > thing?
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > This isn't the main point of my question.
>> > >> > > If we decided that we were going to use SOAP
>> > over
>> > >> > RMI,
>> > >> > > we need a good way to access SOAP on the
>> > server
>> > >> > side.
>> > >> > > ie bypassing the servlet. I have looked at
>> > the
>> > >> > source
>> > >> > > code for the servlet. It does a lot of stuff
>> > HTTP
>> > >> > > dependant. I have also looked at
>> > RPCRouter.java.
>> > >> > This
>> > >> > > seems to be what I need to call SOAP from a
>> > >> > stateless
>> > >> > > session EJB for example. However I think I
>> > could
>> > >> > give
>> > >> > > Envelope.unmarshall an XML SOAP document, but
>> > from
>> > >> > > what I can see this is far away from what I
>> > need
>> > >> > to
>> > >> > > do.
>> > >> > > I suspect the SOAP services will still be
>> > >> > administered
>> > >> > > using the servlet. The issue I think I will
>> > have
>> > >> > will
>> > >> > > be classloaders in WLS 6.1. ie the WAR file
>> > where
>> > >> > SOAP
>> > >> > > will be, would be in a child classloader of
>> > the
>> > >> > EJB
>> > >> > > (in the same EAR). Therefore any
>> > servicemanager
>> > >> > > objects or any singletons may exist more than
>> > >> > once.
>> > >> > > Will this be a problem? Has anybody got any
>> > >> > example
>> > >> > > code to go from a SOAP request XML document,
>> > to a
>> > >> > > calling a SOAP service (living in the same
>> > >> > process),
>> > >> > > but administered by the web app?
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > I hope this makes a little bit fo sense ;-)
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Any help appreciated
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Paul
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> >
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> > >> > > Do You Yahoo!?
>> > >> > > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
>> > >> > http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
>> > >> > > or your free @yahoo.ie address at
>> > >> > http://mail.yahoo.ie
>> > >> > >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> >
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> > >> Do You Yahoo!?
>> > >> Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
>> > http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
>> > >> or your free @yahoo.ie address at
>> > http://mail.yahoo.ie
>> >
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
>> or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
RE: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
Posted by soap beginner <so...@yahoo.co.uk>.
I am still slightly confused.
The number one factor is the data to be exchanged is
XML.
Yes servers are written in Java.
We have a client side interface to RMI, J-Integra. We
will also consider using JMS for asynchronous versions
of the calls.
I DO NOT understand what the problem is with using
SOAP over RMI or COM, except for bandwith increase.
At the simplest level we have a basic requirement for
XML communication. Should I waste my time and write a
XML RPC over RMI? I am sure my non-standard solution
would be a waste of time. If its already written use
it.
I could write XML RPC over CORBA as suggested, but I
would still prefer to use the SOAP engine to process
XML messages. So CORBA/RMI whats the difference?, the
point is use SOAP to process the XML.
I may be missing the point, but what is the choice.
Secondly, one of my questions still remains
unanswered, does anybody have examples of usage of
RPCRouter.java.
The complext of RCPRoter Serlvet astounds me ;-)I
could take the time to learn it, but I assume I will
not just have to learn the api of it, but of most of
the other stuff to.
Cheers
Paul
--- Francis Ho <fh...@post.com> wrote: > SOAP is a wire
level protocol similar to RMI's JRMP
> or IIOP.
>
> Now to clarify your requirements even further.
>
> 1) You have a number of VB clients.
> 2) Your data format to exchange between clients and
> servers is to be XML.
> 3) Your servers/services are written in Java (from
> your WLS references).
> 4) The actual communication protocol is still
> open-ended.
> 5) You seem to have everything within the same
> network (e.g. no firewall
> issues)
>
> With #4 open, there are many choices available to
> accomplish what you need.
> JMS, there are a number of implementations that
> provide COM interfaces
> IIOP, CORBA or even RMI/iiop
> classic RMI over JRMP, this is a little bit tricker
> as you need some type of
> client site interface to COM -- this client site
> interface can translate
> your pure Java objects (ala JAXB) into XML for VB
> consumption. To talk to
> COM, you can try a number of COM bridges.
>
> I hope this helps,
>
>
> francis
>
>
>
>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: soap beginner
> [mailto:soapbeginner@yahoo.co.uk]
> >> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 5:45 AM
> >> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
> >>
> >>
> >> No we hava a VB Client, but s strict requirment
> to
> >> communicate using XML. We cannot use HTTP. We may
> add
> >> more clients eventually, or be able to use HTTP.
> Why
> >> write something to interpret XML to call services
> when
> >> its already been done?
> >>
> >> The client will be taking to use using COM or
> RMI.
> >> I don't see any other option. CORBA would maybe
> be an
> >> option, but the XML requirement is stuck. Also
> SOAP
> >> will give us very loose coupling between Client
> and
> >> server. Does this make sense?
> >>
> >> Also I could use a good answer to my RPCRouter
> >> questions.
> >>
> >> Thanks again
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
> >> --- Dmitri Colebatch <di...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> >
> >> let me get this straight... you're going to have
> a
> >> > Java client, and a Java
> >> > server, and do the communication over RMI, but
> have
> >> > the method invocation
> >> > done using SOAP? By the sounds of things you
> >> > realise this isn't exactly,
> >> > ahem, ideal,... but are having trouble
> convincing a
> >> > client?
> >> >
> >> > IMHO:
> >> >
> >> > RMI: where you can, if you have Java client,
> Java
> >> > server, no firewall
> >> > SOAP/HTTP: if you have to communicate over
> firewall,
> >> > or maybe if you have
> >> > a non-Java client/server (but then I'd think
> CORBA
> >> > would fit the bill
> >> > better wouldn't it?)
> >> >
> >> > SOAP/RMI seems pointless to me... which I hope
> is
> >> > simply concurring with
> >> > your statement.
> >> >
> >> > cheers
> >> > dim
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, [iso-8859-1] soap beginner
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > We have a requirement do let a client call
> >> > services on
> >> > > our server using XML messages. We think SOAP
> fits
> >> > this
> >> > > bill. However , we have problems persuading
> the
> >> > > cusomter to use HTTP. Is it too much of an
> >> > overhead to
> >> > > use SOAP over RMI? Are they meant to be a
> similar
> >> > > thing?
> >> > >
> >> > > This isn't the main point of my question.
> >> > > If we decided that we were going to use SOAP
> over
> >> > RMI,
> >> > > we need a good way to access SOAP on the
> server
> >> > side.
> >> > > ie bypassing the servlet. I have looked at
> the
> >> > source
> >> > > code for the servlet. It does a lot of stuff
> HTTP
> >> > > dependant. I have also looked at
> RPCRouter.java.
> >> > This
> >> > > seems to be what I need to call SOAP from a
> >> > stateless
> >> > > session EJB for example. However I think I
> could
> >> > give
> >> > > Envelope.unmarshall an XML SOAP document, but
> from
> >> > > what I can see this is far away from what I
> need
> >> > to
> >> > > do.
> >> > > I suspect the SOAP services will still be
> >> > administered
> >> > > using the servlet. The issue I think I will
> have
> >> > will
> >> > > be classloaders in WLS 6.1. ie the WAR file
> where
> >> > SOAP
> >> > > will be, would be in a child classloader of
> the
> >> > EJB
> >> > > (in the same EAR). Therefore any
> servicemanager
> >> > > objects or any singletons may exist more than
> >> > once.
> >> > > Will this be a problem? Has anybody got any
> >> > example
> >> > > code to go from a SOAP request XML document,
> to a
> >> > > calling a SOAP service (living in the same
> >> > process),
> >> > > but administered by the web app?
> >> > >
> >> > > I hope this makes a little bit fo sense ;-)
> >> > >
> >> > > Any help appreciated
> >> > >
> >> > > Paul
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
>
____________________________________________________________
> >> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> >> > > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> >> > http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> >> > > or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> >> > http://mail.yahoo.ie
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
>
____________________________________________________________
> >> Do You Yahoo!?
> >> Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> >> or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> http://mail.yahoo.ie
>
____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
RE: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
Posted by graham glass <gr...@mindspring.com>.
check out: http://www.extreme.indiana.edu/soap/
-----Original Message-----
From: soap beginner [mailto:soapbeginner@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 6:10 AM
To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
Subject: RE: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
I am still slightly confused.
The number one factor is the data to be exchanged is
XML.
Yes servers are written in Java.
We have a client side interface to RMI, J-Integra. We
will also consider using JMS for asynchronous versions
of the calls.
I DO NOT understand what the problem is with using
SOAP over RMI or COM, except for bandwith increase.
At the simplest level we have a basic requirement for
XML communication. Should I waste my time and write a
XML RPC over RMI? I am sure my non-standard solution
would be a waste of time. If its already written use
it.
I could write XML RPC over CORBA as suggested, but I
would still prefer to use the SOAP engine to process
XML messages. So CORBA/RMI whats the difference?, the
point is use SOAP to process the XML.
I may be missing the point, but what is the choice.
Secondly, one of my questions still remains
unanswered, does anybody have examples of usage of
RPCRouter.java.
The complext of RCPRoter Serlvet astounds me ;-)I
could take the time to learn it, but I assume I will
not just have to learn the api of it, but of most of
the other stuff to.
Cheers
Paul
--- Francis Ho <fh...@post.com> wrote: > SOAP is a wire
level protocol similar to RMI's JRMP
> or IIOP.
>
> Now to clarify your requirements even further.
>
> 1) You have a number of VB clients.
> 2) Your data format to exchange between clients and
> servers is to be XML.
> 3) Your servers/services are written in Java (from
> your WLS references).
> 4) The actual communication protocol is still
> open-ended.
> 5) You seem to have everything within the same
> network (e.g. no firewall
> issues)
>
> With #4 open, there are many choices available to
> accomplish what you need.
> JMS, there are a number of implementations that
> provide COM interfaces
> IIOP, CORBA or even RMI/iiop
> classic RMI over JRMP, this is a little bit tricker
> as you need some type of
> client site interface to COM -- this client site
> interface can translate
> your pure Java objects (ala JAXB) into XML for VB
> consumption. To talk to
> COM, you can try a number of COM bridges.
>
> I hope this helps,
>
>
> francis
>
>
>
>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: soap beginner
> [mailto:soapbeginner@yahoo.co.uk]
> >> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 5:45 AM
> >> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
> >>
> >>
> >> No we hava a VB Client, but s strict requirment
> to
> >> communicate using XML. We cannot use HTTP. We may
> add
> >> more clients eventually, or be able to use HTTP.
> Why
> >> write something to interpret XML to call services
> when
> >> its already been done?
> >>
> >> The client will be taking to use using COM or
> RMI.
> >> I don't see any other option. CORBA would maybe
> be an
> >> option, but the XML requirement is stuck. Also
> SOAP
> >> will give us very loose coupling between Client
> and
> >> server. Does this make sense?
> >>
> >> Also I could use a good answer to my RPCRouter
> >> questions.
> >>
> >> Thanks again
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
> >> --- Dmitri Colebatch <di...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> >
> >> let me get this straight... you're going to have
> a
> >> > Java client, and a Java
> >> > server, and do the communication over RMI, but
> have
> >> > the method invocation
> >> > done using SOAP? By the sounds of things you
> >> > realise this isn't exactly,
> >> > ahem, ideal,... but are having trouble
> convincing a
> >> > client?
> >> >
> >> > IMHO:
> >> >
> >> > RMI: where you can, if you have Java client,
> Java
> >> > server, no firewall
> >> > SOAP/HTTP: if you have to communicate over
> firewall,
> >> > or maybe if you have
> >> > a non-Java client/server (but then I'd think
> CORBA
> >> > would fit the bill
> >> > better wouldn't it?)
> >> >
> >> > SOAP/RMI seems pointless to me... which I hope
> is
> >> > simply concurring with
> >> > your statement.
> >> >
> >> > cheers
> >> > dim
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, [iso-8859-1] soap beginner
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > We have a requirement do let a client call
> >> > services on
> >> > > our server using XML messages. We think SOAP
> fits
> >> > this
> >> > > bill. However , we have problems persuading
> the
> >> > > cusomter to use HTTP. Is it too much of an
> >> > overhead to
> >> > > use SOAP over RMI? Are they meant to be a
> similar
> >> > > thing?
> >> > >
> >> > > This isn't the main point of my question.
> >> > > If we decided that we were going to use SOAP
> over
> >> > RMI,
> >> > > we need a good way to access SOAP on the
> server
> >> > side.
> >> > > ie bypassing the servlet. I have looked at
> the
> >> > source
> >> > > code for the servlet. It does a lot of stuff
> HTTP
> >> > > dependant. I have also looked at
> RPCRouter.java.
> >> > This
> >> > > seems to be what I need to call SOAP from a
> >> > stateless
> >> > > session EJB for example. However I think I
> could
> >> > give
> >> > > Envelope.unmarshall an XML SOAP document, but
> from
> >> > > what I can see this is far away from what I
> need
> >> > to
> >> > > do.
> >> > > I suspect the SOAP services will still be
> >> > administered
> >> > > using the servlet. The issue I think I will
> have
> >> > will
> >> > > be classloaders in WLS 6.1. ie the WAR file
> where
> >> > SOAP
> >> > > will be, would be in a child classloader of
> the
> >> > EJB
> >> > > (in the same EAR). Therefore any
> servicemanager
> >> > > objects or any singletons may exist more than
> >> > once.
> >> > > Will this be a problem? Has anybody got any
> >> > example
> >> > > code to go from a SOAP request XML document,
> to a
> >> > > calling a SOAP service (living in the same
> >> > process),
> >> > > but administered by the web app?
> >> > >
> >> > > I hope this makes a little bit fo sense ;-)
> >> > >
> >> > > Any help appreciated
> >> > >
> >> > > Paul
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
>
____________________________________________________________
> >> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> >> > > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> >> > http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> >> > > or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> >> > http://mail.yahoo.ie
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
>
____________________________________________________________
> >> Do You Yahoo!?
> >> Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> >> or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> http://mail.yahoo.ie
>
____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
RE: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
Posted by graham glass <gr...@mindspring.com>.
check out: http://www.extreme.indiana.edu/soap/
-----Original Message-----
From: soap beginner [mailto:soapbeginner@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 6:10 AM
To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
Subject: RE: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
I am still slightly confused.
The number one factor is the data to be exchanged is
XML.
Yes servers are written in Java.
We have a client side interface to RMI, J-Integra. We
will also consider using JMS for asynchronous versions
of the calls.
I DO NOT understand what the problem is with using
SOAP over RMI or COM, except for bandwith increase.
At the simplest level we have a basic requirement for
XML communication. Should I waste my time and write a
XML RPC over RMI? I am sure my non-standard solution
would be a waste of time. If its already written use
it.
I could write XML RPC over CORBA as suggested, but I
would still prefer to use the SOAP engine to process
XML messages. So CORBA/RMI whats the difference?, the
point is use SOAP to process the XML.
I may be missing the point, but what is the choice.
Secondly, one of my questions still remains
unanswered, does anybody have examples of usage of
RPCRouter.java.
The complext of RCPRoter Serlvet astounds me ;-)I
could take the time to learn it, but I assume I will
not just have to learn the api of it, but of most of
the other stuff to.
Cheers
Paul
--- Francis Ho <fh...@post.com> wrote: > SOAP is a wire
level protocol similar to RMI's JRMP
> or IIOP.
>
> Now to clarify your requirements even further.
>
> 1) You have a number of VB clients.
> 2) Your data format to exchange between clients and
> servers is to be XML.
> 3) Your servers/services are written in Java (from
> your WLS references).
> 4) The actual communication protocol is still
> open-ended.
> 5) You seem to have everything within the same
> network (e.g. no firewall
> issues)
>
> With #4 open, there are many choices available to
> accomplish what you need.
> JMS, there are a number of implementations that
> provide COM interfaces
> IIOP, CORBA or even RMI/iiop
> classic RMI over JRMP, this is a little bit tricker
> as you need some type of
> client site interface to COM -- this client site
> interface can translate
> your pure Java objects (ala JAXB) into XML for VB
> consumption. To talk to
> COM, you can try a number of COM bridges.
>
> I hope this helps,
>
>
> francis
>
>
>
>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: soap beginner
> [mailto:soapbeginner@yahoo.co.uk]
> >> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 5:45 AM
> >> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
> >>
> >>
> >> No we hava a VB Client, but s strict requirment
> to
> >> communicate using XML. We cannot use HTTP. We may
> add
> >> more clients eventually, or be able to use HTTP.
> Why
> >> write something to interpret XML to call services
> when
> >> its already been done?
> >>
> >> The client will be taking to use using COM or
> RMI.
> >> I don't see any other option. CORBA would maybe
> be an
> >> option, but the XML requirement is stuck. Also
> SOAP
> >> will give us very loose coupling between Client
> and
> >> server. Does this make sense?
> >>
> >> Also I could use a good answer to my RPCRouter
> >> questions.
> >>
> >> Thanks again
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
> >> --- Dmitri Colebatch <di...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> >
> >> let me get this straight... you're going to have
> a
> >> > Java client, and a Java
> >> > server, and do the communication over RMI, but
> have
> >> > the method invocation
> >> > done using SOAP? By the sounds of things you
> >> > realise this isn't exactly,
> >> > ahem, ideal,... but are having trouble
> convincing a
> >> > client?
> >> >
> >> > IMHO:
> >> >
> >> > RMI: where you can, if you have Java client,
> Java
> >> > server, no firewall
> >> > SOAP/HTTP: if you have to communicate over
> firewall,
> >> > or maybe if you have
> >> > a non-Java client/server (but then I'd think
> CORBA
> >> > would fit the bill
> >> > better wouldn't it?)
> >> >
> >> > SOAP/RMI seems pointless to me... which I hope
> is
> >> > simply concurring with
> >> > your statement.
> >> >
> >> > cheers
> >> > dim
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, [iso-8859-1] soap beginner
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > We have a requirement do let a client call
> >> > services on
> >> > > our server using XML messages. We think SOAP
> fits
> >> > this
> >> > > bill. However , we have problems persuading
> the
> >> > > cusomter to use HTTP. Is it too much of an
> >> > overhead to
> >> > > use SOAP over RMI? Are they meant to be a
> similar
> >> > > thing?
> >> > >
> >> > > This isn't the main point of my question.
> >> > > If we decided that we were going to use SOAP
> over
> >> > RMI,
> >> > > we need a good way to access SOAP on the
> server
> >> > side.
> >> > > ie bypassing the servlet. I have looked at
> the
> >> > source
> >> > > code for the servlet. It does a lot of stuff
> HTTP
> >> > > dependant. I have also looked at
> RPCRouter.java.
> >> > This
> >> > > seems to be what I need to call SOAP from a
> >> > stateless
> >> > > session EJB for example. However I think I
> could
> >> > give
> >> > > Envelope.unmarshall an XML SOAP document, but
> from
> >> > > what I can see this is far away from what I
> need
> >> > to
> >> > > do.
> >> > > I suspect the SOAP services will still be
> >> > administered
> >> > > using the servlet. The issue I think I will
> have
> >> > will
> >> > > be classloaders in WLS 6.1. ie the WAR file
> where
> >> > SOAP
> >> > > will be, would be in a child classloader of
> the
> >> > EJB
> >> > > (in the same EAR). Therefore any
> servicemanager
> >> > > objects or any singletons may exist more than
> >> > once.
> >> > > Will this be a problem? Has anybody got any
> >> > example
> >> > > code to go from a SOAP request XML document,
> to a
> >> > > calling a SOAP service (living in the same
> >> > process),
> >> > > but administered by the web app?
> >> > >
> >> > > I hope this makes a little bit fo sense ;-)
> >> > >
> >> > > Any help appreciated
> >> > >
> >> > > Paul
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
>
____________________________________________________________
> >> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> >> > > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> >> > http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> >> > > or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> >> > http://mail.yahoo.ie
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
>
____________________________________________________________
> >> Do You Yahoo!?
> >> Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> >> or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> http://mail.yahoo.ie
>
____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
RE: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
Posted by soap beginner <so...@yahoo.co.uk>.
I am still slightly confused.
The number one factor is the data to be exchanged is
XML.
Yes servers are written in Java.
We have a client side interface to RMI, J-Integra. We
will also consider using JMS for asynchronous versions
of the calls.
I DO NOT understand what the problem is with using
SOAP over RMI or COM, except for bandwith increase.
At the simplest level we have a basic requirement for
XML communication. Should I waste my time and write a
XML RPC over RMI? I am sure my non-standard solution
would be a waste of time. If its already written use
it.
I could write XML RPC over CORBA as suggested, but I
would still prefer to use the SOAP engine to process
XML messages. So CORBA/RMI whats the difference?, the
point is use SOAP to process the XML.
I may be missing the point, but what is the choice.
Secondly, one of my questions still remains
unanswered, does anybody have examples of usage of
RPCRouter.java.
The complext of RCPRoter Serlvet astounds me ;-)I
could take the time to learn it, but I assume I will
not just have to learn the api of it, but of most of
the other stuff to.
Cheers
Paul
--- Francis Ho <fh...@post.com> wrote: > SOAP is a wire
level protocol similar to RMI's JRMP
> or IIOP.
>
> Now to clarify your requirements even further.
>
> 1) You have a number of VB clients.
> 2) Your data format to exchange between clients and
> servers is to be XML.
> 3) Your servers/services are written in Java (from
> your WLS references).
> 4) The actual communication protocol is still
> open-ended.
> 5) You seem to have everything within the same
> network (e.g. no firewall
> issues)
>
> With #4 open, there are many choices available to
> accomplish what you need.
> JMS, there are a number of implementations that
> provide COM interfaces
> IIOP, CORBA or even RMI/iiop
> classic RMI over JRMP, this is a little bit tricker
> as you need some type of
> client site interface to COM -- this client site
> interface can translate
> your pure Java objects (ala JAXB) into XML for VB
> consumption. To talk to
> COM, you can try a number of COM bridges.
>
> I hope this helps,
>
>
> francis
>
>
>
>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: soap beginner
> [mailto:soapbeginner@yahoo.co.uk]
> >> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 5:45 AM
> >> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
> >>
> >>
> >> No we hava a VB Client, but s strict requirment
> to
> >> communicate using XML. We cannot use HTTP. We may
> add
> >> more clients eventually, or be able to use HTTP.
> Why
> >> write something to interpret XML to call services
> when
> >> its already been done?
> >>
> >> The client will be taking to use using COM or
> RMI.
> >> I don't see any other option. CORBA would maybe
> be an
> >> option, but the XML requirement is stuck. Also
> SOAP
> >> will give us very loose coupling between Client
> and
> >> server. Does this make sense?
> >>
> >> Also I could use a good answer to my RPCRouter
> >> questions.
> >>
> >> Thanks again
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
> >> --- Dmitri Colebatch <di...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> >
> >> let me get this straight... you're going to have
> a
> >> > Java client, and a Java
> >> > server, and do the communication over RMI, but
> have
> >> > the method invocation
> >> > done using SOAP? By the sounds of things you
> >> > realise this isn't exactly,
> >> > ahem, ideal,... but are having trouble
> convincing a
> >> > client?
> >> >
> >> > IMHO:
> >> >
> >> > RMI: where you can, if you have Java client,
> Java
> >> > server, no firewall
> >> > SOAP/HTTP: if you have to communicate over
> firewall,
> >> > or maybe if you have
> >> > a non-Java client/server (but then I'd think
> CORBA
> >> > would fit the bill
> >> > better wouldn't it?)
> >> >
> >> > SOAP/RMI seems pointless to me... which I hope
> is
> >> > simply concurring with
> >> > your statement.
> >> >
> >> > cheers
> >> > dim
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, [iso-8859-1] soap beginner
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > We have a requirement do let a client call
> >> > services on
> >> > > our server using XML messages. We think SOAP
> fits
> >> > this
> >> > > bill. However , we have problems persuading
> the
> >> > > cusomter to use HTTP. Is it too much of an
> >> > overhead to
> >> > > use SOAP over RMI? Are they meant to be a
> similar
> >> > > thing?
> >> > >
> >> > > This isn't the main point of my question.
> >> > > If we decided that we were going to use SOAP
> over
> >> > RMI,
> >> > > we need a good way to access SOAP on the
> server
> >> > side.
> >> > > ie bypassing the servlet. I have looked at
> the
> >> > source
> >> > > code for the servlet. It does a lot of stuff
> HTTP
> >> > > dependant. I have also looked at
> RPCRouter.java.
> >> > This
> >> > > seems to be what I need to call SOAP from a
> >> > stateless
> >> > > session EJB for example. However I think I
> could
> >> > give
> >> > > Envelope.unmarshall an XML SOAP document, but
> from
> >> > > what I can see this is far away from what I
> need
> >> > to
> >> > > do.
> >> > > I suspect the SOAP services will still be
> >> > administered
> >> > > using the servlet. The issue I think I will
> have
> >> > will
> >> > > be classloaders in WLS 6.1. ie the WAR file
> where
> >> > SOAP
> >> > > will be, would be in a child classloader of
> the
> >> > EJB
> >> > > (in the same EAR). Therefore any
> servicemanager
> >> > > objects or any singletons may exist more than
> >> > once.
> >> > > Will this be a problem? Has anybody got any
> >> > example
> >> > > code to go from a SOAP request XML document,
> to a
> >> > > calling a SOAP service (living in the same
> >> > process),
> >> > > but administered by the web app?
> >> > >
> >> > > I hope this makes a little bit fo sense ;-)
> >> > >
> >> > > Any help appreciated
> >> > >
> >> > > Paul
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
>
____________________________________________________________
> >> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> >> > > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> >> > http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> >> > > or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> >> > http://mail.yahoo.ie
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
>
____________________________________________________________
> >> Do You Yahoo!?
> >> Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> >> or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> http://mail.yahoo.ie
>
____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
RE: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
Posted by soap beginner <so...@yahoo.co.uk>.
I am still slightly confused.
The number one factor is the data to be exchanged is
XML.
Yes servers are written in Java.
We have a client side interface to RMI, J-Integra. We
will also consider using JMS for asynchronous versions
of the calls.
I DO NOT understand what the problem is with using
SOAP over RMI or COM, except for bandwith increase.
At the simplest level we have a basic requirement for
XML communication. Should I waste my time and write a
XML RPC over RMI? I am sure my non-standard solution
would be a waste of time. If its already written use
it.
I could write XML RPC over CORBA as suggested, but I
would still prefer to use the SOAP engine to process
XML messages. So CORBA/RMI whats the difference?, the
point is use SOAP to process the XML.
I may be missing the point, but what is the choice.
Secondly, one of my questions still remains
unanswered, does anybody have examples of usage of
RPCRouter.java.
The complext of RCPRoter Serlvet astounds me ;-)I
could take the time to learn it, but I assume I will
not just have to learn the api of it, but of most of
the other stuff to.
Cheers
Paul
--- Francis Ho <fh...@post.com> wrote: > SOAP is a wire
level protocol similar to RMI's JRMP
> or IIOP.
>
> Now to clarify your requirements even further.
>
> 1) You have a number of VB clients.
> 2) Your data format to exchange between clients and
> servers is to be XML.
> 3) Your servers/services are written in Java (from
> your WLS references).
> 4) The actual communication protocol is still
> open-ended.
> 5) You seem to have everything within the same
> network (e.g. no firewall
> issues)
>
> With #4 open, there are many choices available to
> accomplish what you need.
> JMS, there are a number of implementations that
> provide COM interfaces
> IIOP, CORBA or even RMI/iiop
> classic RMI over JRMP, this is a little bit tricker
> as you need some type of
> client site interface to COM -- this client site
> interface can translate
> your pure Java objects (ala JAXB) into XML for VB
> consumption. To talk to
> COM, you can try a number of COM bridges.
>
> I hope this helps,
>
>
> francis
>
>
>
>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: soap beginner
> [mailto:soapbeginner@yahoo.co.uk]
> >> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 5:45 AM
> >> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
> >>
> >>
> >> No we hava a VB Client, but s strict requirment
> to
> >> communicate using XML. We cannot use HTTP. We may
> add
> >> more clients eventually, or be able to use HTTP.
> Why
> >> write something to interpret XML to call services
> when
> >> its already been done?
> >>
> >> The client will be taking to use using COM or
> RMI.
> >> I don't see any other option. CORBA would maybe
> be an
> >> option, but the XML requirement is stuck. Also
> SOAP
> >> will give us very loose coupling between Client
> and
> >> server. Does this make sense?
> >>
> >> Also I could use a good answer to my RPCRouter
> >> questions.
> >>
> >> Thanks again
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
> >> --- Dmitri Colebatch <di...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> >
> >> let me get this straight... you're going to have
> a
> >> > Java client, and a Java
> >> > server, and do the communication over RMI, but
> have
> >> > the method invocation
> >> > done using SOAP? By the sounds of things you
> >> > realise this isn't exactly,
> >> > ahem, ideal,... but are having trouble
> convincing a
> >> > client?
> >> >
> >> > IMHO:
> >> >
> >> > RMI: where you can, if you have Java client,
> Java
> >> > server, no firewall
> >> > SOAP/HTTP: if you have to communicate over
> firewall,
> >> > or maybe if you have
> >> > a non-Java client/server (but then I'd think
> CORBA
> >> > would fit the bill
> >> > better wouldn't it?)
> >> >
> >> > SOAP/RMI seems pointless to me... which I hope
> is
> >> > simply concurring with
> >> > your statement.
> >> >
> >> > cheers
> >> > dim
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, [iso-8859-1] soap beginner
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > We have a requirement do let a client call
> >> > services on
> >> > > our server using XML messages. We think SOAP
> fits
> >> > this
> >> > > bill. However , we have problems persuading
> the
> >> > > cusomter to use HTTP. Is it too much of an
> >> > overhead to
> >> > > use SOAP over RMI? Are they meant to be a
> similar
> >> > > thing?
> >> > >
> >> > > This isn't the main point of my question.
> >> > > If we decided that we were going to use SOAP
> over
> >> > RMI,
> >> > > we need a good way to access SOAP on the
> server
> >> > side.
> >> > > ie bypassing the servlet. I have looked at
> the
> >> > source
> >> > > code for the servlet. It does a lot of stuff
> HTTP
> >> > > dependant. I have also looked at
> RPCRouter.java.
> >> > This
> >> > > seems to be what I need to call SOAP from a
> >> > stateless
> >> > > session EJB for example. However I think I
> could
> >> > give
> >> > > Envelope.unmarshall an XML SOAP document, but
> from
> >> > > what I can see this is far away from what I
> need
> >> > to
> >> > > do.
> >> > > I suspect the SOAP services will still be
> >> > administered
> >> > > using the servlet. The issue I think I will
> have
> >> > will
> >> > > be classloaders in WLS 6.1. ie the WAR file
> where
> >> > SOAP
> >> > > will be, would be in a child classloader of
> the
> >> > EJB
> >> > > (in the same EAR). Therefore any
> servicemanager
> >> > > objects or any singletons may exist more than
> >> > once.
> >> > > Will this be a problem? Has anybody got any
> >> > example
> >> > > code to go from a SOAP request XML document,
> to a
> >> > > calling a SOAP service (living in the same
> >> > process),
> >> > > but administered by the web app?
> >> > >
> >> > > I hope this makes a little bit fo sense ;-)
> >> > >
> >> > > Any help appreciated
> >> > >
> >> > > Paul
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
>
____________________________________________________________
> >> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> >> > > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> >> > http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> >> > > or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> >> > http://mail.yahoo.ie
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
>
____________________________________________________________
> >> Do You Yahoo!?
> >> Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> >> or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> http://mail.yahoo.ie
>
____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
RE: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
Posted by soap beginner <so...@yahoo.co.uk>.
I am still slightly confused.
The number one factor is the data to be exchanged is
XML.
Yes servers are written in Java.
We have a client side interface to RMI, J-Integra. We
will also consider using JMS for asynchronous versions
of the calls.
I DO NOT understand what the problem is with using
SOAP over RMI or COM, except for bandwith increase.
At the simplest level we have a basic requirement for
XML communication. Should I waste my time and write a
XML RPC over RMI? I am sure my non-standard solution
would be a waste of time. If its already written use
it.
I could write XML RPC over CORBA as suggested, but I
would still prefer to use the SOAP engine to process
XML messages. So CORBA/RMI whats the difference?, the
point is use SOAP to process the XML.
I may be missing the point, but what is the choice.
Secondly, one of my questions still remains
unanswered, does anybody have examples of usage of
RPCRouter.java.
The complext of RCPRoter Serlvet astounds me ;-)I
could take the time to learn it, but I assume I will
not just have to learn the api of it, but of most of
the other stuff to.
Cheers
Paul
--- Francis Ho <fh...@post.com> wrote: > SOAP is a wire
level protocol similar to RMI's JRMP
> or IIOP.
>
> Now to clarify your requirements even further.
>
> 1) You have a number of VB clients.
> 2) Your data format to exchange between clients and
> servers is to be XML.
> 3) Your servers/services are written in Java (from
> your WLS references).
> 4) The actual communication protocol is still
> open-ended.
> 5) You seem to have everything within the same
> network (e.g. no firewall
> issues)
>
> With #4 open, there are many choices available to
> accomplish what you need.
> JMS, there are a number of implementations that
> provide COM interfaces
> IIOP, CORBA or even RMI/iiop
> classic RMI over JRMP, this is a little bit tricker
> as you need some type of
> client site interface to COM -- this client site
> interface can translate
> your pure Java objects (ala JAXB) into XML for VB
> consumption. To talk to
> COM, you can try a number of COM bridges.
>
> I hope this helps,
>
>
> francis
>
>
>
>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: soap beginner
> [mailto:soapbeginner@yahoo.co.uk]
> >> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 5:45 AM
> >> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
> >>
> >>
> >> No we hava a VB Client, but s strict requirment
> to
> >> communicate using XML. We cannot use HTTP. We may
> add
> >> more clients eventually, or be able to use HTTP.
> Why
> >> write something to interpret XML to call services
> when
> >> its already been done?
> >>
> >> The client will be taking to use using COM or
> RMI.
> >> I don't see any other option. CORBA would maybe
> be an
> >> option, but the XML requirement is stuck. Also
> SOAP
> >> will give us very loose coupling between Client
> and
> >> server. Does this make sense?
> >>
> >> Also I could use a good answer to my RPCRouter
> >> questions.
> >>
> >> Thanks again
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
> >> --- Dmitri Colebatch <di...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> >
> >> let me get this straight... you're going to have
> a
> >> > Java client, and a Java
> >> > server, and do the communication over RMI, but
> have
> >> > the method invocation
> >> > done using SOAP? By the sounds of things you
> >> > realise this isn't exactly,
> >> > ahem, ideal,... but are having trouble
> convincing a
> >> > client?
> >> >
> >> > IMHO:
> >> >
> >> > RMI: where you can, if you have Java client,
> Java
> >> > server, no firewall
> >> > SOAP/HTTP: if you have to communicate over
> firewall,
> >> > or maybe if you have
> >> > a non-Java client/server (but then I'd think
> CORBA
> >> > would fit the bill
> >> > better wouldn't it?)
> >> >
> >> > SOAP/RMI seems pointless to me... which I hope
> is
> >> > simply concurring with
> >> > your statement.
> >> >
> >> > cheers
> >> > dim
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, [iso-8859-1] soap beginner
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > We have a requirement do let a client call
> >> > services on
> >> > > our server using XML messages. We think SOAP
> fits
> >> > this
> >> > > bill. However , we have problems persuading
> the
> >> > > cusomter to use HTTP. Is it too much of an
> >> > overhead to
> >> > > use SOAP over RMI? Are they meant to be a
> similar
> >> > > thing?
> >> > >
> >> > > This isn't the main point of my question.
> >> > > If we decided that we were going to use SOAP
> over
> >> > RMI,
> >> > > we need a good way to access SOAP on the
> server
> >> > side.
> >> > > ie bypassing the servlet. I have looked at
> the
> >> > source
> >> > > code for the servlet. It does a lot of stuff
> HTTP
> >> > > dependant. I have also looked at
> RPCRouter.java.
> >> > This
> >> > > seems to be what I need to call SOAP from a
> >> > stateless
> >> > > session EJB for example. However I think I
> could
> >> > give
> >> > > Envelope.unmarshall an XML SOAP document, but
> from
> >> > > what I can see this is far away from what I
> need
> >> > to
> >> > > do.
> >> > > I suspect the SOAP services will still be
> >> > administered
> >> > > using the servlet. The issue I think I will
> have
> >> > will
> >> > > be classloaders in WLS 6.1. ie the WAR file
> where
> >> > SOAP
> >> > > will be, would be in a child classloader of
> the
> >> > EJB
> >> > > (in the same EAR). Therefore any
> servicemanager
> >> > > objects or any singletons may exist more than
> >> > once.
> >> > > Will this be a problem? Has anybody got any
> >> > example
> >> > > code to go from a SOAP request XML document,
> to a
> >> > > calling a SOAP service (living in the same
> >> > process),
> >> > > but administered by the web app?
> >> > >
> >> > > I hope this makes a little bit fo sense ;-)
> >> > >
> >> > > Any help appreciated
> >> > >
> >> > > Paul
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
>
____________________________________________________________
> >> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> >> > > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> >> > http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> >> > > or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> >> > http://mail.yahoo.ie
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
>
____________________________________________________________
> >> Do You Yahoo!?
> >> Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> >> or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> http://mail.yahoo.ie
>
____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
RE: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
Posted by Francis Ho <fh...@post.com>.
SOAP is a wire level protocol similar to RMI's JRMP or IIOP.
Now to clarify your requirements even further.
1) You have a number of VB clients.
2) Your data format to exchange between clients and servers is to be XML.
3) Your servers/services are written in Java (from your WLS references).
4) The actual communication protocol is still open-ended.
5) You seem to have everything within the same network (e.g. no firewall
issues)
With #4 open, there are many choices available to accomplish what you need.
JMS, there are a number of implementations that provide COM interfaces
IIOP, CORBA or even RMI/iiop
classic RMI over JRMP, this is a little bit tricker as you need some type of
client site interface to COM -- this client site interface can translate
your pure Java objects (ala JAXB) into XML for VB consumption. To talk to
COM, you can try a number of COM bridges.
I hope this helps,
francis
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: soap beginner [mailto:soapbeginner@yahoo.co.uk]
>> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 5:45 AM
>> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
>>
>>
>> No we hava a VB Client, but s strict requirment to
>> communicate using XML. We cannot use HTTP. We may add
>> more clients eventually, or be able to use HTTP. Why
>> write something to interpret XML to call services when
>> its already been done?
>>
>> The client will be taking to use using COM or RMI.
>> I don't see any other option. CORBA would maybe be an
>> option, but the XML requirement is stuck. Also SOAP
>> will give us very loose coupling between Client and
>> server. Does this make sense?
>>
>> Also I could use a good answer to my RPCRouter
>> questions.
>>
>> Thanks again
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> --- Dmitri Colebatch <di...@bigpond.net.au> wrote: >
>> let me get this straight... you're going to have a
>> > Java client, and a Java
>> > server, and do the communication over RMI, but have
>> > the method invocation
>> > done using SOAP? By the sounds of things you
>> > realise this isn't exactly,
>> > ahem, ideal,... but are having trouble convincing a
>> > client?
>> >
>> > IMHO:
>> >
>> > RMI: where you can, if you have Java client, Java
>> > server, no firewall
>> > SOAP/HTTP: if you have to communicate over firewall,
>> > or maybe if you have
>> > a non-Java client/server (but then I'd think CORBA
>> > would fit the bill
>> > better wouldn't it?)
>> >
>> > SOAP/RMI seems pointless to me... which I hope is
>> > simply concurring with
>> > your statement.
>> >
>> > cheers
>> > dim
>> >
>> > On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, [iso-8859-1] soap beginner
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > We have a requirement do let a client call
>> > services on
>> > > our server using XML messages. We think SOAP fits
>> > this
>> > > bill. However , we have problems persuading the
>> > > cusomter to use HTTP. Is it too much of an
>> > overhead to
>> > > use SOAP over RMI? Are they meant to be a similar
>> > > thing?
>> > >
>> > > This isn't the main point of my question.
>> > > If we decided that we were going to use SOAP over
>> > RMI,
>> > > we need a good way to access SOAP on the server
>> > side.
>> > > ie bypassing the servlet. I have looked at the
>> > source
>> > > code for the servlet. It does a lot of stuff HTTP
>> > > dependant. I have also looked at RPCRouter.java.
>> > This
>> > > seems to be what I need to call SOAP from a
>> > stateless
>> > > session EJB for example. However I think I could
>> > give
>> > > Envelope.unmarshall an XML SOAP document, but from
>> > > what I can see this is far away from what I need
>> > to
>> > > do.
>> > > I suspect the SOAP services will still be
>> > administered
>> > > using the servlet. The issue I think I will have
>> > will
>> > > be classloaders in WLS 6.1. ie the WAR file where
>> > SOAP
>> > > will be, would be in a child classloader of the
>> > EJB
>> > > (in the same EAR). Therefore any servicemanager
>> > > objects or any singletons may exist more than
>> > once.
>> > > Will this be a problem? Has anybody got any
>> > example
>> > > code to go from a SOAP request XML document, to a
>> > > calling a SOAP service (living in the same
>> > process),
>> > > but administered by the web app?
>> > >
>> > > I hope this makes a little bit fo sense ;-)
>> > >
>> > > Any help appreciated
>> > >
>> > > Paul
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> > > Do You Yahoo!?
>> > > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
>> > http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
>> > > or your free @yahoo.ie address at
>> > http://mail.yahoo.ie
>> > >
>> >
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
>> or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
RE: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
Posted by Francis Ho <fh...@post.com>.
SOAP is a wire level protocol similar to RMI's JRMP or IIOP.
Now to clarify your requirements even further.
1) You have a number of VB clients.
2) Your data format to exchange between clients and servers is to be XML.
3) Your servers/services are written in Java (from your WLS references).
4) The actual communication protocol is still open-ended.
5) You seem to have everything within the same network (e.g. no firewall
issues)
With #4 open, there are many choices available to accomplish what you need.
JMS, there are a number of implementations that provide COM interfaces
IIOP, CORBA or even RMI/iiop
classic RMI over JRMP, this is a little bit tricker as you need some type of
client site interface to COM -- this client site interface can translate
your pure Java objects (ala JAXB) into XML for VB consumption. To talk to
COM, you can try a number of COM bridges.
I hope this helps,
francis
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: soap beginner [mailto:soapbeginner@yahoo.co.uk]
>> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 5:45 AM
>> To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
>>
>>
>> No we hava a VB Client, but s strict requirment to
>> communicate using XML. We cannot use HTTP. We may add
>> more clients eventually, or be able to use HTTP. Why
>> write something to interpret XML to call services when
>> its already been done?
>>
>> The client will be taking to use using COM or RMI.
>> I don't see any other option. CORBA would maybe be an
>> option, but the XML requirement is stuck. Also SOAP
>> will give us very loose coupling between Client and
>> server. Does this make sense?
>>
>> Also I could use a good answer to my RPCRouter
>> questions.
>>
>> Thanks again
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> --- Dmitri Colebatch <di...@bigpond.net.au> wrote: >
>> let me get this straight... you're going to have a
>> > Java client, and a Java
>> > server, and do the communication over RMI, but have
>> > the method invocation
>> > done using SOAP? By the sounds of things you
>> > realise this isn't exactly,
>> > ahem, ideal,... but are having trouble convincing a
>> > client?
>> >
>> > IMHO:
>> >
>> > RMI: where you can, if you have Java client, Java
>> > server, no firewall
>> > SOAP/HTTP: if you have to communicate over firewall,
>> > or maybe if you have
>> > a non-Java client/server (but then I'd think CORBA
>> > would fit the bill
>> > better wouldn't it?)
>> >
>> > SOAP/RMI seems pointless to me... which I hope is
>> > simply concurring with
>> > your statement.
>> >
>> > cheers
>> > dim
>> >
>> > On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, [iso-8859-1] soap beginner
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > We have a requirement do let a client call
>> > services on
>> > > our server using XML messages. We think SOAP fits
>> > this
>> > > bill. However , we have problems persuading the
>> > > cusomter to use HTTP. Is it too much of an
>> > overhead to
>> > > use SOAP over RMI? Are they meant to be a similar
>> > > thing?
>> > >
>> > > This isn't the main point of my question.
>> > > If we decided that we were going to use SOAP over
>> > RMI,
>> > > we need a good way to access SOAP on the server
>> > side.
>> > > ie bypassing the servlet. I have looked at the
>> > source
>> > > code for the servlet. It does a lot of stuff HTTP
>> > > dependant. I have also looked at RPCRouter.java.
>> > This
>> > > seems to be what I need to call SOAP from a
>> > stateless
>> > > session EJB for example. However I think I could
>> > give
>> > > Envelope.unmarshall an XML SOAP document, but from
>> > > what I can see this is far away from what I need
>> > to
>> > > do.
>> > > I suspect the SOAP services will still be
>> > administered
>> > > using the servlet. The issue I think I will have
>> > will
>> > > be classloaders in WLS 6.1. ie the WAR file where
>> > SOAP
>> > > will be, would be in a child classloader of the
>> > EJB
>> > > (in the same EAR). Therefore any servicemanager
>> > > objects or any singletons may exist more than
>> > once.
>> > > Will this be a problem? Has anybody got any
>> > example
>> > > code to go from a SOAP request XML document, to a
>> > > calling a SOAP service (living in the same
>> > process),
>> > > but administered by the web app?
>> > >
>> > > I hope this makes a little bit fo sense ;-)
>> > >
>> > > Any help appreciated
>> > >
>> > > Paul
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> > > Do You Yahoo!?
>> > > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
>> > http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
>> > > or your free @yahoo.ie address at
>> > http://mail.yahoo.ie
>> > >
>> >
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
>> or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
RE: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
Posted by graham glass <gr...@mindspring.com>.
try GLUE: http://www.themindelectric.com
cheers,
graham
-----Original Message-----
From: soap beginner [mailto:soapbeginner@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 4:45 AM
To: soap-user@xml.apache.org
Subject: Re: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
No we hava a VB Client, but s strict requirment to
communicate using XML. We cannot use HTTP. We may add
more clients eventually, or be able to use HTTP. Why
write something to interpret XML to call services when
its already been done?
The client will be taking to use using COM or RMI.
I don't see any other option. CORBA would maybe be an
option, but the XML requirement is stuck. Also SOAP
will give us very loose coupling between Client and
server. Does this make sense?
Also I could use a good answer to my RPCRouter
questions.
Thanks again
Paul
--- Dmitri Colebatch <di...@bigpond.net.au> wrote: >
let me get this straight... you're going to have a
> Java client, and a Java
> server, and do the communication over RMI, but have
> the method invocation
> done using SOAP? By the sounds of things you
> realise this isn't exactly,
> ahem, ideal,... but are having trouble convincing a
> client?
>
> IMHO:
>
> RMI: where you can, if you have Java client, Java
> server, no firewall
> SOAP/HTTP: if you have to communicate over firewall,
> or maybe if you have
> a non-Java client/server (but then I'd think CORBA
> would fit the bill
> better wouldn't it?)
>
> SOAP/RMI seems pointless to me... which I hope is
> simply concurring with
> your statement.
>
> cheers
> dim
>
> On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, [iso-8859-1] soap beginner
> wrote:
>
> > We have a requirement do let a client call
> services on
> > our server using XML messages. We think SOAP fits
> this
> > bill. However , we have problems persuading the
> > cusomter to use HTTP. Is it too much of an
> overhead to
> > use SOAP over RMI? Are they meant to be a similar
> > thing?
> >
> > This isn't the main point of my question.
> > If we decided that we were going to use SOAP over
> RMI,
> > we need a good way to access SOAP on the server
> side.
> > ie bypassing the servlet. I have looked at the
> source
> > code for the servlet. It does a lot of stuff HTTP
> > dependant. I have also looked at RPCRouter.java.
> This
> > seems to be what I need to call SOAP from a
> stateless
> > session EJB for example. However I think I could
> give
> > Envelope.unmarshall an XML SOAP document, but from
> > what I can see this is far away from what I need
> to
> > do.
> > I suspect the SOAP services will still be
> administered
> > using the servlet. The issue I think I will have
> will
> > be classloaders in WLS 6.1. ie the WAR file where
> SOAP
> > will be, would be in a child classloader of the
> EJB
> > (in the same EAR). Therefore any servicemanager
> > objects or any singletons may exist more than
> once.
> > Will this be a problem? Has anybody got any
> example
> > code to go from a SOAP request XML document, to a
> > calling a SOAP service (living in the same
> process),
> > but administered by the web app?
> >
> > I hope this makes a little bit fo sense ;-)
> >
> > Any help appreciated
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> > or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> http://mail.yahoo.ie
> >
>
____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
Re: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
Posted by soap beginner <so...@yahoo.co.uk>.
No we hava a VB Client, but s strict requirment to
communicate using XML. We cannot use HTTP. We may add
more clients eventually, or be able to use HTTP. Why
write something to interpret XML to call services when
its already been done?
The client will be taking to use using COM or RMI.
I don't see any other option. CORBA would maybe be an
option, but the XML requirement is stuck. Also SOAP
will give us very loose coupling between Client and
server. Does this make sense?
Also I could use a good answer to my RPCRouter
questions.
Thanks again
Paul
--- Dmitri Colebatch <di...@bigpond.net.au> wrote: >
let me get this straight... you're going to have a
> Java client, and a Java
> server, and do the communication over RMI, but have
> the method invocation
> done using SOAP? By the sounds of things you
> realise this isn't exactly,
> ahem, ideal,... but are having trouble convincing a
> client?
>
> IMHO:
>
> RMI: where you can, if you have Java client, Java
> server, no firewall
> SOAP/HTTP: if you have to communicate over firewall,
> or maybe if you have
> a non-Java client/server (but then I'd think CORBA
> would fit the bill
> better wouldn't it?)
>
> SOAP/RMI seems pointless to me... which I hope is
> simply concurring with
> your statement.
>
> cheers
> dim
>
> On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, [iso-8859-1] soap beginner
> wrote:
>
> > We have a requirement do let a client call
> services on
> > our server using XML messages. We think SOAP fits
> this
> > bill. However , we have problems persuading the
> > cusomter to use HTTP. Is it too much of an
> overhead to
> > use SOAP over RMI? Are they meant to be a similar
> > thing?
> >
> > This isn't the main point of my question.
> > If we decided that we were going to use SOAP over
> RMI,
> > we need a good way to access SOAP on the server
> side.
> > ie bypassing the servlet. I have looked at the
> source
> > code for the servlet. It does a lot of stuff HTTP
> > dependant. I have also looked at RPCRouter.java.
> This
> > seems to be what I need to call SOAP from a
> stateless
> > session EJB for example. However I think I could
> give
> > Envelope.unmarshall an XML SOAP document, but from
> > what I can see this is far away from what I need
> to
> > do.
> > I suspect the SOAP services will still be
> administered
> > using the servlet. The issue I think I will have
> will
> > be classloaders in WLS 6.1. ie the WAR file where
> SOAP
> > will be, would be in a child classloader of the
> EJB
> > (in the same EAR). Therefore any servicemanager
> > objects or any singletons may exist more than
> once.
> > Will this be a problem? Has anybody got any
> example
> > code to go from a SOAP request XML document, to a
> > calling a SOAP service (living in the same
> process),
> > but administered by the web app?
> >
> > I hope this makes a little bit fo sense ;-)
> >
> > Any help appreciated
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> > or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> http://mail.yahoo.ie
> >
>
____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
Re: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
Posted by soap beginner <so...@yahoo.co.uk>.
No we hava a VB Client, but s strict requirment to
communicate using XML. We cannot use HTTP. We may add
more clients eventually, or be able to use HTTP. Why
write something to interpret XML to call services when
its already been done?
The client will be taking to use using COM or RMI.
I don't see any other option. CORBA would maybe be an
option, but the XML requirement is stuck. Also SOAP
will give us very loose coupling between Client and
server. Does this make sense?
Also I could use a good answer to my RPCRouter
questions.
Thanks again
Paul
--- Dmitri Colebatch <di...@bigpond.net.au> wrote: >
let me get this straight... you're going to have a
> Java client, and a Java
> server, and do the communication over RMI, but have
> the method invocation
> done using SOAP? By the sounds of things you
> realise this isn't exactly,
> ahem, ideal,... but are having trouble convincing a
> client?
>
> IMHO:
>
> RMI: where you can, if you have Java client, Java
> server, no firewall
> SOAP/HTTP: if you have to communicate over firewall,
> or maybe if you have
> a non-Java client/server (but then I'd think CORBA
> would fit the bill
> better wouldn't it?)
>
> SOAP/RMI seems pointless to me... which I hope is
> simply concurring with
> your statement.
>
> cheers
> dim
>
> On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, [iso-8859-1] soap beginner
> wrote:
>
> > We have a requirement do let a client call
> services on
> > our server using XML messages. We think SOAP fits
> this
> > bill. However , we have problems persuading the
> > cusomter to use HTTP. Is it too much of an
> overhead to
> > use SOAP over RMI? Are they meant to be a similar
> > thing?
> >
> > This isn't the main point of my question.
> > If we decided that we were going to use SOAP over
> RMI,
> > we need a good way to access SOAP on the server
> side.
> > ie bypassing the servlet. I have looked at the
> source
> > code for the servlet. It does a lot of stuff HTTP
> > dependant. I have also looked at RPCRouter.java.
> This
> > seems to be what I need to call SOAP from a
> stateless
> > session EJB for example. However I think I could
> give
> > Envelope.unmarshall an XML SOAP document, but from
> > what I can see this is far away from what I need
> to
> > do.
> > I suspect the SOAP services will still be
> administered
> > using the servlet. The issue I think I will have
> will
> > be classloaders in WLS 6.1. ie the WAR file where
> SOAP
> > will be, would be in a child classloader of the
> EJB
> > (in the same EAR). Therefore any servicemanager
> > objects or any singletons may exist more than
> once.
> > Will this be a problem? Has anybody got any
> example
> > code to go from a SOAP request XML document, to a
> > calling a SOAP service (living in the same
> process),
> > but administered by the web app?
> >
> > I hope this makes a little bit fo sense ;-)
> >
> > Any help appreciated
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> > or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> http://mail.yahoo.ie
> >
>
____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
Re: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
Posted by Dmitri Colebatch <di...@bigpond.net.au>.
let me get this straight... you're going to have a Java client, and a Java
server, and do the communication over RMI, but have the method invocation
done using SOAP? By the sounds of things you realise this isn't exactly,
ahem, ideal,... but are having trouble convincing a client?
IMHO:
RMI: where you can, if you have Java client, Java server, no firewall
SOAP/HTTP: if you have to communicate over firewall, or maybe if you have
a non-Java client/server (but then I'd think CORBA would fit the bill
better wouldn't it?)
SOAP/RMI seems pointless to me... which I hope is simply concurring with
your statement.
cheers
dim
On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, [iso-8859-1] soap beginner wrote:
> We have a requirement do let a client call services on
> our server using XML messages. We think SOAP fits this
> bill. However , we have problems persuading the
> cusomter to use HTTP. Is it too much of an overhead to
> use SOAP over RMI? Are they meant to be a similar
> thing?
>
> This isn't the main point of my question.
> If we decided that we were going to use SOAP over RMI,
> we need a good way to access SOAP on the server side.
> ie bypassing the servlet. I have looked at the source
> code for the servlet. It does a lot of stuff HTTP
> dependant. I have also looked at RPCRouter.java. This
> seems to be what I need to call SOAP from a stateless
> session EJB for example. However I think I could give
> Envelope.unmarshall an XML SOAP document, but from
> what I can see this is far away from what I need to
> do.
> I suspect the SOAP services will still be administered
> using the servlet. The issue I think I will have will
> be classloaders in WLS 6.1. ie the WAR file where SOAP
> will be, would be in a child classloader of the EJB
> (in the same EAR). Therefore any servicemanager
> objects or any singletons may exist more than once.
> Will this be a problem? Has anybody got any example
> code to go from a SOAP request XML document, to a
> calling a SOAP service (living in the same process),
> but administered by the web app?
>
> I hope this makes a little bit fo sense ;-)
>
> Any help appreciated
>
> Paul
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
>
Re: SOAP over RMI, Pointless?
Posted by Dmitri Colebatch <di...@bigpond.net.au>.
let me get this straight... you're going to have a Java client, and a Java
server, and do the communication over RMI, but have the method invocation
done using SOAP? By the sounds of things you realise this isn't exactly,
ahem, ideal,... but are having trouble convincing a client?
IMHO:
RMI: where you can, if you have Java client, Java server, no firewall
SOAP/HTTP: if you have to communicate over firewall, or maybe if you have
a non-Java client/server (but then I'd think CORBA would fit the bill
better wouldn't it?)
SOAP/RMI seems pointless to me... which I hope is simply concurring with
your statement.
cheers
dim
On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, [iso-8859-1] soap beginner wrote:
> We have a requirement do let a client call services on
> our server using XML messages. We think SOAP fits this
> bill. However , we have problems persuading the
> cusomter to use HTTP. Is it too much of an overhead to
> use SOAP over RMI? Are they meant to be a similar
> thing?
>
> This isn't the main point of my question.
> If we decided that we were going to use SOAP over RMI,
> we need a good way to access SOAP on the server side.
> ie bypassing the servlet. I have looked at the source
> code for the servlet. It does a lot of stuff HTTP
> dependant. I have also looked at RPCRouter.java. This
> seems to be what I need to call SOAP from a stateless
> session EJB for example. However I think I could give
> Envelope.unmarshall an XML SOAP document, but from
> what I can see this is far away from what I need to
> do.
> I suspect the SOAP services will still be administered
> using the servlet. The issue I think I will have will
> be classloaders in WLS 6.1. ie the WAR file where SOAP
> will be, would be in a child classloader of the EJB
> (in the same EAR). Therefore any servicemanager
> objects or any singletons may exist more than once.
> Will this be a problem? Has anybody got any example
> code to go from a SOAP request XML document, to a
> calling a SOAP service (living in the same process),
> but administered by the web app?
>
> I hope this makes a little bit fo sense ;-)
>
> Any help appreciated
>
> Paul
>
>
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