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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com> on 2012/08/16 18:34:23 UTC
build guide on download page?
I think it might be a good idea to include a link to build information on
the download page.
We could probably put this right under the heading for the source section...
http://www.openoffice.org/download/other.html#tested-sdk
Given the recent discussion on the [VOTE] thread for 3.4.1, it would be
great if we could get the build instructions better integrated in *one*
place and we can add this link to the source download section.
Comments? Volunteers?
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
"Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think."
--
Niels Bohr
Re: build guide on download page?
Posted by "Marcus (OOo)" <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 08/16/2012 07:15 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 12:34 PM, Kay Schenk<ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think it might be a good idea to include a link to build information on
>> the download page.
>>
>
> We do have a link on the main download page, over on the right side
> panel, under "Additional Information".
>
> But it looks like it is pointing to the old OpenOffice.org version,
> not the newer wiki page for AOO.
I could change it, we just need to decide which webpage to link to.
I've seen in another thread that Dave had some problems to build AOO. It
seems we have (at least) 2 webpages that describe how to build on your
own. So ...
>> We could probably put this right under the heading for the source section...
>>
>> http://www.openoffice.org/download/other.html#tested-sdk
>>
>
> Yes, the link probably makes more sense there.
>
>> Given the recent discussion on the [VOTE] thread for 3.4.1, it would be
>> great if we could get the build instructions better integrated in *one*
>> place and we can add this link to the source download section.
>>
>> Comments? Volunteers?
>>
>
> My personal opinion -- the download page is far too "busy" and
> complex. We have 45 different links on that page although we know
Ahm, you must not count the links in the nav bar, header, footer, etc.
;-). These would be also on a new page regardless how empty it is.
I'm counting 32 links on the main body of ".../download/index.html" and
don't think that it's too much.
> most visitors are looking to download AOO in the latest version
> available for their language. There is a lot of visual clutter.
Hm, I don't see a big problem with ".../download/index.html". IMHO it
has a clear structure. The colors support the most user to find the
right binaries or locations. The links on the right nav bar provide
additional links for the advanced users.
Of course it could always be improved but, again, I don't see any big
problems here.
> Compare to the Firefox download site, for example.
>
> I'm in favor of simplifying the download page and moving less-used
> information off to other supporting pages. This is a good thing to
> look at after the release, I think. We can even do A/B testing of the
> new page against the old one to see how they compare in terms of user
> behavior, e.g., how many seconds does it take for the user to find
> what they want.
I'm open for new things. However, we should make sure not to split into
too many little parts. Otherwise we have for every little information a
separate webpage which is not nice - also not nice to maintain.
Marcus
Re: build guide on download page?
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 12:34 PM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think it might be a good idea to include a link to build information on
> the download page.
>
We do have a link on the main download page, over on the right side
panel, under "Additional Information".
But it looks like it is pointing to the old OpenOffice.org version,
not the newer wiki page for AOO.
> We could probably put this right under the heading for the source section...
>
> http://www.openoffice.org/download/other.html#tested-sdk
>
Yes, the link probably makes more sense there.
> Given the recent discussion on the [VOTE] thread for 3.4.1, it would be
> great if we could get the build instructions better integrated in *one*
> place and we can add this link to the source download section.
>
> Comments? Volunteers?
>
My personal opinion -- the download page is far too "busy" and
complex. We have 45 different links on that page although we know
most visitors are looking to download AOO in the latest version
available for their language. There is a lot of visual clutter.
Compare to the Firefox download site, for example.
I'm in favor of simplifying the download page and moving less-used
information off to other supporting pages. This is a good thing to
look at after the release, I think. We can even do A/B testing of the
new page against the old one to see how they compare in terms of user
behavior, e.g., how many seconds does it take for the user to find
what they want.
-Rob
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MzK
>
> "Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think."
> --
> Niels Bohr
Re: build guide on download page?
Posted by "Marcus (OOo)" <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 08/17/2012 12:36 AM, schrieb Dave Fisher:
>
> On Aug 16, 2012, at 3:07 PM, Kay Schenk wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 08/16/2012 12:57 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>>> Am 08/16/2012 06:34 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:
>>>> I think it might be a good idea to include a link to build information on
>>>> the download page.
>>>>
>>>> We could probably put this right under the heading for the source
>>>> section...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.openoffice.org/download/other.html#tested-sdk
>>>>
>>>> Given the recent discussion on the [VOTE] thread for 3.4.1, it would be
>>>> great if we could get the build instructions better integrated in *one*
>>>> place and we can add this link to the source download section.
>>>>
>>>> Comments? Volunteers?
>>>
>>> Good idea. We just need to decide which webpage to link to.
>>>
>>> I've seen in another thread that Dave had some problems to build AOO. It
>>> seems we have (at least) 2 webpages that describe how to build on your
>>> own. So ...
>>>
>>> Marcus
>>>
>>
>>
>> Right, so here is a question/idea.
>>
>> Andre pointed Dave to this wiki page --
>>
>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO
>>
>> we also have a bunch of build flags for each environment listed on:
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Development+Snapshot+Builds#DevelopmentSnapshotBuilds-AOO3.4.1
>>
>> Should we either 1) incorporate the build flags on Building_Guide_AOO page
>>
>> or 2) link to them from the Building_Guide_AOO page
>
> Link to them - the one's used on the builds include some choices that the various builders have made which don't exactly match the instructions on the various guides. For example, Jürgen has put downloaded prerequisites.
>
> These are good examples.
I've changed the link also on ".../download/index.html" to refer to the
Building_Guide_AOO page. Will be live with the next publish.
Marcus
>> Also, I will change the link on the source page in the project site to go to Building_Guide_AOO instead of the one that is there now.
>>
>> Rob placed a message on the old Building Guide page, but perhaps it will be overlooked.
>
> There are four pages in the wiki linked to from the README.
>
> Windows:
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_Windows
> Linux:
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_Linux
> Mac OS X:
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXBuildInstructions
> Solaris:
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_Solaris
>
> If these are no longer current then each should have a prominent link to the correct page:
>
> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO.
>
> The README is at https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/trunk/main/README
>
> There are also build instructions in there, so that needs some cleanup.
>
>>
>> Long story short, why don't we plan on putting a link to
>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO
>>
>> at the top of source section in other.html and deal with build flags separately...
>
> Yes, agreed. But link to the development builds from the Building_Guide_AOO.
>
> A reference to all of the build flags would help too.
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
Re: build guide on download page?
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
On 08/17/2012 03:09 AM, Andre Fischer wrote:
> On 17.08.2012 00:36, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>
>> On Aug 16, 2012, at 3:07 PM, Kay Schenk wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 08/16/2012 12:57 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>>>> Am 08/16/2012 06:34 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:
>>>>> I think it might be a good idea to include a link to build
>>>>> information on
>>>>> the download page.
>>>>>
>>>>> We could probably put this right under the heading for the source
>>>>> section...
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org/download/other.html#tested-sdk
>>>>>
>>>>> Given the recent discussion on the [VOTE] thread for 3.4.1, it
>>>>> would be
>>>>> great if we could get the build instructions better integrated in
>>>>> *one*
>>>>> place and we can add this link to the source download section.
>>>>>
>>>>> Comments? Volunteers?
>>>>
>>>> Good idea. We just need to decide which webpage to link to.
>>>>
>>>> I've seen in another thread that Dave had some problems to build
>>>> AOO. It
>>>> seems we have (at least) 2 webpages that describe how to build on your
>>>> own. So ...
>>>>
>>>> Marcus
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Right, so here is a question/idea.
>>>
>>> Andre pointed Dave to this wiki page --
>>>
>>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO
>>>
>>> we also have a bunch of build flags for each environment listed on:
>>>
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Development+Snapshot+Builds#DevelopmentSnapshotBuilds-AOO3.4.1
>>>
>>>
>>> Should we either 1) incorporate the build flags on Building_Guide_AOO
>>> page
>>>
>>> or 2) link to them from the Building_Guide_AOO page
>>
>> Link to them - the one's used on the builds include some choices that
>> the various builders have made which don't exactly match the
>> instructions on the various guides. For example, Jürgen has put
>> downloaded prerequisites.
>
> Building_Guide_AOO already contains the more important switches (eg
> --enable-category-b, --enable-bundled-dictionaries) and explains why
> these are not on by default.
> I restricted the choice to a minimum to not confuse the reader.
>
>
>>
>> These are good examples.
>>
>>>
>>> Also, I will change the link on the source page in the project site
>>> to go to Building_Guide_AOO instead of the one that is there now.
>>>
>>> Rob placed a message on the old Building Guide page, but perhaps it
>>> will be overlooked.
>>
>> There are four pages in the wiki linked to from the README.
>>
>> Windows:
>>
>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_Windows
>>
>> Linux:
>>
>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_Linux
>>
>> Mac OS X:
>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXBuildInstructions
>> Solaris:
>>
>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_Solaris
>>
>>
>> If these are no longer current then each should have a prominent link
>> to the correct page:
>>
>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO.
>
> I made this change on trunk.
>
>>
>> The README is at
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/trunk/main/README
>>
>> There are also build instructions in there, so that needs some cleanup.
>>
>>>
>>> Long story short, why don't we plan on putting a link to
>>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO
>>>
>>> at the top of source section in other.html and deal with build flags
>>> separately...
>>
>> Yes, agreed. But link to the development builds from the
>> Building_Guide_AOO.
>>
>> A reference to all of the build flags would help too.
>
> Yes, we need that.
>
>
> My idea for Building_Guide_AOO was to have one page that explains the
> outline of how to build AOO, not to contain every single detail as that
> would just obscure the big picture. I also tried to avoid repeating the
> basics on many platform specific pages so that the building guide
> remains maintainable. See how the pages linked above have diverged and
> are out-of-date.
>
> But I am beginning to see the benefit of having simpler recipes for the
> major platforms. Less explaining, just step by step descriptions that
> get you from downloading/checking out the source code to a running
> office. I will start this for Linux (Ubuntu 12.04) and Mac (if I get it
> to run in a virtual machine) but any help is welcome.
>
> -Andre
yes, that would be good.
OK, I just made several changes which I hope will help with this.
* changed the general Build Guide page on the wiki (we had a link to the
AOO Build guide but I made it more prominent and arranged the order a bit)
* fixed links on the Source link in the project web site
* added a link to the revised build guide page on the Developer Snapshot
page under the "source" areas
yes, I also think the platform specific areas on the general build page
on the wiki should be changed (or not used) if they're not up to date.
Also, I think it would be VERY helpful to explain some aspects -- system
integration vs not, build with Mozilla or not, etc. Maybe this is
already explained somewhere but I don't know where.
ok, back later
>
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dave
>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> MzK
>>>
>>> "Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think."
>>> -- Niels Bohr
>>
>
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
"Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think."
-- Niels Bohr
Re: build guide on download page?
Posted by Andre Fischer <aw...@gmail.com>.
On 17.08.2012 00:36, Dave Fisher wrote:
>
> On Aug 16, 2012, at 3:07 PM, Kay Schenk wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 08/16/2012 12:57 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>>> Am 08/16/2012 06:34 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:
>>>> I think it might be a good idea to include a link to build information on
>>>> the download page.
>>>>
>>>> We could probably put this right under the heading for the source
>>>> section...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.openoffice.org/download/other.html#tested-sdk
>>>>
>>>> Given the recent discussion on the [VOTE] thread for 3.4.1, it would be
>>>> great if we could get the build instructions better integrated in *one*
>>>> place and we can add this link to the source download section.
>>>>
>>>> Comments? Volunteers?
>>>
>>> Good idea. We just need to decide which webpage to link to.
>>>
>>> I've seen in another thread that Dave had some problems to build AOO. It
>>> seems we have (at least) 2 webpages that describe how to build on your
>>> own. So ...
>>>
>>> Marcus
>>>
>>
>>
>> Right, so here is a question/idea.
>>
>> Andre pointed Dave to this wiki page --
>>
>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO
>>
>> we also have a bunch of build flags for each environment listed on:
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Development+Snapshot+Builds#DevelopmentSnapshotBuilds-AOO3.4.1
>>
>> Should we either 1) incorporate the build flags on Building_Guide_AOO page
>>
>> or 2) link to them from the Building_Guide_AOO page
>
> Link to them - the one's used on the builds include some choices that the various builders have made which don't exactly match the instructions on the various guides. For example, Jürgen has put downloaded prerequisites.
Building_Guide_AOO already contains the more important switches (eg
--enable-category-b, --enable-bundled-dictionaries) and explains why
these are not on by default.
I restricted the choice to a minimum to not confuse the reader.
>
> These are good examples.
>
>>
>> Also, I will change the link on the source page in the project site to go to Building_Guide_AOO instead of the one that is there now.
>>
>> Rob placed a message on the old Building Guide page, but perhaps it will be overlooked.
>
> There are four pages in the wiki linked to from the README.
>
> Windows:
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_Windows
> Linux:
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_Linux
> Mac OS X:
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXBuildInstructions
> Solaris:
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_Solaris
>
> If these are no longer current then each should have a prominent link to the correct page:
>
> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO.
I made this change on trunk.
>
> The README is at https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/trunk/main/README
>
> There are also build instructions in there, so that needs some cleanup.
>
>>
>> Long story short, why don't we plan on putting a link to
>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO
>>
>> at the top of source section in other.html and deal with build flags separately...
>
> Yes, agreed. But link to the development builds from the Building_Guide_AOO.
>
> A reference to all of the build flags would help too.
Yes, we need that.
My idea for Building_Guide_AOO was to have one page that explains the
outline of how to build AOO, not to contain every single detail as that
would just obscure the big picture. I also tried to avoid repeating the
basics on many platform specific pages so that the building guide
remains maintainable. See how the pages linked above have diverged and
are out-of-date.
But I am beginning to see the benefit of having simpler recipes for the
major platforms. Less explaining, just step by step descriptions that
get you from downloading/checking out the source code to a running
office. I will start this for Linux (Ubuntu 12.04) and Mac (if I get it
to run in a virtual machine) but any help is welcome.
-Andre
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> MzK
>>
>> "Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think."
>> -- Niels Bohr
>
Re: build guide on download page?
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Aug 16, 2012, at 3:07 PM, Kay Schenk wrote:
>
>
> On 08/16/2012 12:57 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>> Am 08/16/2012 06:34 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:
>>> I think it might be a good idea to include a link to build information on
>>> the download page.
>>>
>>> We could probably put this right under the heading for the source
>>> section...
>>>
>>> http://www.openoffice.org/download/other.html#tested-sdk
>>>
>>> Given the recent discussion on the [VOTE] thread for 3.4.1, it would be
>>> great if we could get the build instructions better integrated in *one*
>>> place and we can add this link to the source download section.
>>>
>>> Comments? Volunteers?
>>
>> Good idea. We just need to decide which webpage to link to.
>>
>> I've seen in another thread that Dave had some problems to build AOO. It
>> seems we have (at least) 2 webpages that describe how to build on your
>> own. So ...
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>
>
> Right, so here is a question/idea.
>
> Andre pointed Dave to this wiki page --
>
> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO
>
> we also have a bunch of build flags for each environment listed on:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Development+Snapshot+Builds#DevelopmentSnapshotBuilds-AOO3.4.1
>
> Should we either 1) incorporate the build flags on Building_Guide_AOO page
>
> or 2) link to them from the Building_Guide_AOO page
Link to them - the one's used on the builds include some choices that the various builders have made which don't exactly match the instructions on the various guides. For example, Jürgen has put downloaded prerequisites.
These are good examples.
>
> Also, I will change the link on the source page in the project site to go to Building_Guide_AOO instead of the one that is there now.
>
> Rob placed a message on the old Building Guide page, but perhaps it will be overlooked.
There are four pages in the wiki linked to from the README.
Windows:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_Windows
Linux:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_Linux
Mac OS X:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/MacOSXBuildInstructions
Solaris:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_Solaris
If these are no longer current then each should have a prominent link to the correct page:
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO.
The README is at https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/trunk/main/README
There are also build instructions in there, so that needs some cleanup.
>
> Long story short, why don't we plan on putting a link to
> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO
>
> at the top of source section in other.html and deal with build flags separately...
Yes, agreed. But link to the development builds from the Building_Guide_AOO.
A reference to all of the build flags would help too.
Thanks,
Dave
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MzK
>
> "Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think."
> -- Niels Bohr
Re: build guide on download page?
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
On 08/16/2012 12:57 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
> Am 08/16/2012 06:34 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:
>> I think it might be a good idea to include a link to build information on
>> the download page.
>>
>> We could probably put this right under the heading for the source
>> section...
>>
>> http://www.openoffice.org/download/other.html#tested-sdk
>>
>> Given the recent discussion on the [VOTE] thread for 3.4.1, it would be
>> great if we could get the build instructions better integrated in *one*
>> place and we can add this link to the source download section.
>>
>> Comments? Volunteers?
>
> Good idea. We just need to decide which webpage to link to.
>
> I've seen in another thread that Dave had some problems to build AOO. It
> seems we have (at least) 2 webpages that describe how to build on your
> own. So ...
>
> Marcus
>
Right, so here is a question/idea.
Andre pointed Dave to this wiki page --
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO
we also have a bunch of build flags for each environment listed on:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Development+Snapshot+Builds#DevelopmentSnapshotBuilds-AOO3.4.1
Should we either 1) incorporate the build flags on Building_Guide_AOO page
or 2) link to them from the Building_Guide_AOO page
Also, I will change the link on the source page in the project site to
go to Building_Guide_AOO instead of the one that is there now.
Rob placed a message on the old Building Guide page, but perhaps it will
be overlooked.
Long story short, why don't we plan on putting a link to
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO
at the top of source section in other.html and deal with build flags
separately...
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
"Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think."
-- Niels Bohr
Re: build guide on download page?
Posted by "Marcus (OOo)" <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 08/16/2012 06:34 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk:
> I think it might be a good idea to include a link to build information on
> the download page.
>
> We could probably put this right under the heading for the source section...
>
> http://www.openoffice.org/download/other.html#tested-sdk
>
> Given the recent discussion on the [VOTE] thread for 3.4.1, it would be
> great if we could get the build instructions better integrated in *one*
> place and we can add this link to the source download section.
>
> Comments? Volunteers?
Good idea. We just need to decide which webpage to link to.
I've seen in another thread that Dave had some problems to build AOO. It
seems we have (at least) 2 webpages that describe how to build on your
own. So ...
Marcus