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Posted to derby-user@db.apache.org by Robert Enyedi <ro...@intland.com> on 2006/08/29 11:07:18 UTC
Derby vs. Hypersonic SQL
Hi,
We have a MySQL database with around 50 tables and we are thinking about
supporting other database engines too. After studying the options on the
Java DB engine implementations, it seems that there are two important
contenders: Apache Derby and Hypersonic SQL. While our feeling is that
Hypersonic SQL is a more mature product, Derby seems to be hyped about a
lot these days and it also has quite some history since the days of
Informix and Cloudscape.
Could you please help in our decision by pointing out some advantages
and shortcomings of Apache Derby versus Hypersonic SQL?
Thanks,
Robert
Re: Derby vs. Hypersonic SQL
Posted by David Van Couvering <Da...@Sun.COM>.
Well, you're obviously going to get a slanted opinion here, but I
suspect you're sending a similar email to the HSQL folks :)
I'm not sure why you think Hypersonic is a more mature product, when
Cloudscape/Derby has been around and in production in some form or
another for 10 years...
Feature-by-feature Derby and HSQL are pretty close -- they're both
embeddable, they both have strong SQL support. I think Derby has XA
support and passes the Java EE compatibility test, and I am pretty sure
HSQL doesn't. Also, as of 10.2 Derby has support for online backup, I
don't think HSQL does.
As I see it, Hypersonic SQL has the following advantages:
- Super fast, especially when you can run it completely in memory
- Very small
However, it has the following disadvantages:
- It does not provide transactional guarantees in multi-user
environments -- you can end up with a corrupt database [1]
- Support comes solely from the community. For this reason, you may or
may not feel comfortable putting it in production.
Derby is larger (if you count 2MB as "large" for a database) and
generally slower than HSQL, but for many people it's quite fast enough,
especially running embedded. Also, you can get support for Derby (aka
Java DB and Cloudscape) from either Sun or IBM.
[1] This is not just a theoretical issue, I have talked to a number of
folks who have run into support issues because of this. Here is a quote
from the Confluence web site, which ships with HSQL by default:
"Confluence is configured to run with its own embedded database.
However, this is recommended only for evaluation or demonstration. To
ensure your data is kept safe and consistent, we recommend production
deployments of Confluence using one of these external databases: <list
of databases with real transactional support>"
By the way, has anybody talked to the Confluence folks about switching
to Derby, so they can get rid of this warning?
David
Robert Enyedi wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We have a MySQL database with around 50 tables and we are thinking about
> supporting other database engines too. After studying the options on the
> Java DB engine implementations, it seems that there are two important
> contenders: Apache Derby and Hypersonic SQL. While our feeling is that
> Hypersonic SQL is a more mature product, Derby seems to be hyped about a
> lot these days and it also has quite some history since the days of
> Informix and Cloudscape.
>
> Could you please help in our decision by pointing out some advantages
> and shortcomings of Apache Derby versus Hypersonic SQL?
>
> Thanks,
> Robert
Re: Derby vs. Hypersonic SQL
Posted by Duncan Groenewald <du...@xtra.co.nz>.
Thanks - I'll check it out as its the one reason I sopped using it.
David Van Couvering wrote:
> FYI, GRANT/REVOKE is now implemented in 10.2. There are a lot of new
> features in 10.2, including XML support, online backup, show
> table/describe...
>
> For the full list see http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/TenTwoSnapshot
>
> David
>
> Duncan Groenewald wrote:
>> I have used both and now rely on McKoiDB for the majority of work.
>> While it lacks one or two features it has proven to be very stable
>> and reliable. Derby lacks a couple of key features I needed,
>> especially no user access control (GRANT, REVOKE).
>>
>> I found Hypersonic's persistent to be unreliable and gave up after
>> experiencing corruption on a number of databases.
>>
>> I started a simple evaluation document to compare key features I
>> needed which might help. Send me your email address and I'll forward
>> you a copy if you would like.
>>
>> Regards
>> Duncan
>>
>> Robert Enyedi wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> We have a MySQL database with around 50 tables and we are thinking
>>> about supporting other database engines too. After studying the
>>> options on the Java DB engine implementations, it seems that there
>>> are two important contenders: Apache Derby and Hypersonic SQL. While
>>> our feeling is that Hypersonic SQL is a more mature product, Derby
>>> seems to be hyped about a lot these days and it also has quite some
>>> history since the days of Informix and Cloudscape.
>>>
>>> Could you please help in our decision by pointing out some
>>> advantages and shortcomings of Apache Derby versus Hypersonic SQL?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Robert
>>>
>>
>
Re: Derby vs. Hypersonic SQL
Posted by David Van Couvering <Da...@Sun.COM>.
FYI, GRANT/REVOKE is now implemented in 10.2. There are a lot of new
features in 10.2, including XML support, online backup, show
table/describe...
For the full list see http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/TenTwoSnapshot
David
Duncan Groenewald wrote:
> I have used both and now rely on McKoiDB for the majority of work.
> While it lacks one or two features it has proven to be very stable and
> reliable. Derby lacks a couple of key features I needed, especially no
> user access control (GRANT, REVOKE).
>
> I found Hypersonic's persistent to be unreliable and gave up after
> experiencing corruption on a number of databases.
>
> I started a simple evaluation document to compare key features I needed
> which might help. Send me your email address and I'll forward you a
> copy if you would like.
>
> Regards
> Duncan
>
> Robert Enyedi wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> We have a MySQL database with around 50 tables and we are thinking
>> about supporting other database engines too. After studying the
>> options on the Java DB engine implementations, it seems that there are
>> two important contenders: Apache Derby and Hypersonic SQL. While our
>> feeling is that Hypersonic SQL is a more mature product, Derby seems
>> to be hyped about a lot these days and it also has quite some history
>> since the days of Informix and Cloudscape.
>>
>> Could you please help in our decision by pointing out some advantages
>> and shortcomings of Apache Derby versus Hypersonic SQL?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Robert
>>
>
Re: Derby vs. Hypersonic SQL
Posted by Mamta Satoor <ms...@gmail.com>.
Duncan,
Grant/revoke functionality is targeted for upcoming Derby 10.2 release.
Mamta
On 8/29/06, Duncan Groenewald <du...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> I have used both and now rely on McKoiDB for the majority of work.
> While it lacks one or two features it has proven to be very stable and
> reliable. Derby lacks a couple of key features I needed, especially no
> user access control (GRANT, REVOKE).
>
> I found Hypersonic's persistent to be unreliable and gave up after
> experiencing corruption on a number of databases.
>
> I started a simple evaluation document to compare key features I needed
> which might help. Send me your email address and I'll forward you a
> copy if you would like.
>
> Regards
> Duncan
>
> Robert Enyedi wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > We have a MySQL database with around 50 tables and we are thinking
> > about supporting other database engines too. After studying the
> > options on the Java DB engine implementations, it seems that there are
> > two important contenders: Apache Derby and Hypersonic SQL. While our
> > feeling is that Hypersonic SQL is a more mature product, Derby seems
> > to be hyped about a lot these days and it also has quite some history
> > since the days of Informix and Cloudscape.
> >
> > Could you please help in our decision by pointing out some advantages
> > and shortcomings of Apache Derby versus Hypersonic SQL?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Robert
> >
>
>
Re: Derby vs. Hypersonic SQL
Posted by Duncan Groenewald <du...@xtra.co.nz>.
I have used both and now rely on McKoiDB for the majority of work.
While it lacks one or two features it has proven to be very stable and
reliable. Derby lacks a couple of key features I needed, especially no
user access control (GRANT, REVOKE).
I found Hypersonic's persistent to be unreliable and gave up after
experiencing corruption on a number of databases.
I started a simple evaluation document to compare key features I needed
which might help. Send me your email address and I'll forward you a
copy if you would like.
Regards
Duncan
Robert Enyedi wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We have a MySQL database with around 50 tables and we are thinking
> about supporting other database engines too. After studying the
> options on the Java DB engine implementations, it seems that there are
> two important contenders: Apache Derby and Hypersonic SQL. While our
> feeling is that Hypersonic SQL is a more mature product, Derby seems
> to be hyped about a lot these days and it also has quite some history
> since the days of Informix and Cloudscape.
>
> Could you please help in our decision by pointing out some advantages
> and shortcomings of Apache Derby versus Hypersonic SQL?
>
> Thanks,
> Robert
>
Re: Derby vs. Hypersonic SQL
Posted by Robert Enyedi <ro...@intland.com>.
Sunitha,
Thanks for the links. The second one is especially thoughtful.
Regards,
Robert
Sunitha Kambhampati wrote:
> Robert Enyedi wrote:
>
>> Could you please help in our decision by pointing out some advantages
>> and shortcomings of Apache Derby versus Hypersonic SQL?
>>
> In case you have not already seen these articles, these might be a
> good read -
> http://weblogs.java.net/blog/davidvc/archive/2005/08/database_acidit.html
> http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/dw_blog.jspa?roll=-18&blog=397
>
>
> Sunitha.
>
Re: Derby vs. Hypersonic SQL
Posted by Sunitha Kambhampati <ks...@gmail.com>.
Robert Enyedi wrote:
> Could you please help in our decision by pointing out some advantages
> and shortcomings of Apache Derby versus Hypersonic SQL?
>
In case you have not already seen these articles, these might be a good
read -
http://weblogs.java.net/blog/davidvc/archive/2005/08/database_acidit.html
http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/dw_blog.jspa?roll=-18&blog=397
Sunitha.
RE: Derby vs. Hypersonic SQL
Posted by Terry Kilshaw <te...@quantechsoftware.com>.
I'd also like to know if Hypersonic has both client/server and standalone
functionality. For client/server operation I guess it would need a JDBC
driver. Is one available for it?
Finally, does it have tools for admin and query?
Thanks,
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Enyedi [mailto:robert.enyedi@intland.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 2:07 AM
To: Derby Discussion
Subject: Derby vs. Hypersonic SQL
Hi,
We have a MySQL database with around 50 tables and we are thinking about
supporting other database engines too. After studying the options on the
Java DB engine implementations, it seems that there are two important
contenders: Apache Derby and Hypersonic SQL. While our feeling is that
Hypersonic SQL is a more mature product, Derby seems to be hyped about a lot
these days and it also has quite some history since the days of Informix and
Cloudscape.
Could you please help in our decision by pointing out some advantages and
shortcomings of Apache Derby versus Hypersonic SQL?
Thanks,
Robert