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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> on 2017/04/06 05:06:55 UTC
Revisit policy that all IPMC members have commit privs to all
incubator repositories.
Background, from https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-13804
> With this feedback and review, I believe we're still operating as expected.
>
> * Per current policy, IPMC members have commit privileges on all Incubator repositories.
> * The above is effected through the use of a private GitHub Team
> * According to users' GitHub preferences, they will Watch new repositories
> * GitHub is sending notifications of changes, per Watch selections
>
> The "answer" here is to Unwatch repositories, as appropriate, and/or
> to alter the GitHub user account preference for auto-Watching new
> repositories.
Here's my case:
I believe that asking all IPMC members that request access to *any* ASF
github repository to get notification emails on *all* incubator projects
that participate in the gitbox experiment is unreasonable.
I believe that asking all IPMC members to individually unwatch each and
every repository as they are created is unreasonable.
I believe that asking all IPMC members to uncheck "Automatically watch"
is unreasonable as it (a) will result in people being notified for new
repositories that they should be watching, and (b) presumes that people
are not participating/watching in other non-ASF GitHub repositories.
Accordingly, Since I do believe that it is reasonable for every ASF
member to get email on all ASF repositories that they have commit
privileges to, I am asking that the IPMC revisit the current policy that
all IPMC members have commit privileges on all Incubator repositories.
I believe that the alternative is technically feasible: have each
podling manage a list of committers for that podling:
https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/
- Sam Ruby
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Re: Revisit policy that all IPMC members have commit privs to all
incubator repositories.
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
John D. Ament wrote on 4/6/17 6:57 AM:
> This solution describes one of the many reasons I feel the incubator itself
> is broken. We're trying to rewrite policy, as a means to work around some
> awkward setup sitting around, instead of just treating podlings as regular
> projects, with some restrictions in place.
+1. The restrictions on podlings are in terms of branding and
mentoring. We don't *need* any technical restrictions, other than those
which make maintaining the branding & mentoring easier.
> Create something in ldap that is org.apache.incubator.$podling. When
> secretary processes new accounts, they're being added into this area,
> instead of the incubator area.
>
> IPMC members have access to execute something that adds committers to
> podlings. It could be a special ou for mentors, which VP incubator has
> access to.
IPMC members should be able to fill out a form to request commit for any
podling. Mentors should be automatically added to podlings they are
working on, to make it seamless if they do need to help out (especially
on websites).
> This has to net less maintenance from infra to make podlings more like TLPs.
>
> The one thing Sam misses in this email, there is a way to fix your
> notification scheme easily in github -
> https://github.com/settings/notifications - uncheck "Automatically Watch
> Repositories"
Yes, but I don't want to *have* to set this to just opt-out of getting
stuck on all new podlings. 8-)
>
> John
>
> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:07 AM Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>
>> Background, from https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-13804
>>
>>> With this feedback and review, I believe we're still operating as
>> expected.
>>>
>>> * Per current policy, IPMC members have commit privileges on all
>> Incubator repositories.
>>> * The above is effected through the use of a private GitHub Team
>>> * According to users' GitHub preferences, they will Watch new
>> repositories
>>> * GitHub is sending notifications of changes, per Watch selections
>>>
>>> The "answer" here is to Unwatch repositories, as appropriate, and/or
>>> to alter the GitHub user account preference for auto-Watching new
>>> repositories.
>>
>> Here's my case:
>>
>> I believe that asking all IPMC members that request access to *any* ASF
>> github repository to get notification emails on *all* incubator projects
>> that participate in the gitbox experiment is unreasonable.
>>
>> I believe that asking all IPMC members to individually unwatch each and
>> every repository as they are created is unreasonable.
>>
>> I believe that asking all IPMC members to uncheck "Automatically watch"
>> is unreasonable as it (a) will result in people being notified for new
>> repositories that they should be watching, and (b) presumes that people
>> are not participating/watching in other non-ASF GitHub repositories.
>>
>> Accordingly, Since I do believe that it is reasonable for every ASF
>> member to get email on all ASF repositories that they have commit
>> privileges to, I am asking that the IPMC revisit the current policy that
>> all IPMC members have commit privileges on all Incubator repositories.
>>
>> I believe that the alternative is technically feasible: have each
>> podling manage a list of committers for that podling:
>>
>> https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/
>>
>> - Sam Ruby
>>
>>
>>
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>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
--
- Shane
https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/resources
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Re: Revisit policy that all IPMC members have commit privs to all
incubator repositories.
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
John, your email confuses me for many reasons.
On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 6:57 AM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org> wrote:
> This solution describes one of the many reasons I feel the incubator itself
> is broken. We're trying to rewrite policy, as a means to work around some
> awkward setup sitting around, instead of just treating podlings as regular
> projects, with some restrictions in place.
What I am proposing is to indeed tread podlings more like regular
projects, with some restrictions in place. In fact, what I am asking
is that we revisit an existing policy that treats podlings as
different than regular projects.
> Create something in ldap that is org.apache.incubator.$podling. When
> secretary processes new accounts, they're being added into this area,
> instead of the incubator area.
I did exactly that. Go to the link I provided
(https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/), and click on any podling
name. What you will see is a list of people that are in LDAP. I took
the data sources I have access to to initially populate this list. In
each case, I included the list of mentors. When I could find it, I
included the list of committers.
> IPMC members have access to execute something that adds committers to
> podlings. It could be a special ou for mentors, which VP incubator has
> access to.
The way things are currently set up, any member of a podling can add
or remove members from a podling. We can explore adding the entire
IPMC; or limiting adding and removal to only mentors, or any other
arrangement. One thing I did not mention is that adding or removing
members will send out notifications to private@incubator, to the
private list for the podling, and to root@ (to alert the
infrastructure team()
While anything is possible, my recommendation is to treat podlings
more like pmcs; trust that since you have mentors on the list,
notifications in place, and both the secretarial team and the
infrastructure team to fall back on, IPMC members don't need the
direct access to update lists. But that is just a recommendation.
For those that want more background on the current implementation and
implications, see this thread: https://s.apache.org/75Pb
> This has to net less maintenance from infra to make podlings more like TLPs.
Agreed. :-)
> The one thing Sam misses in this email, there is a way to fix your
> notification scheme easily in github -
> https://github.com/settings/notifications - uncheck "Automatically Watch
> Repositories"
I think I covered that in the paragraph that begins with "I believe
that asking all IPMC members to uncheck "Automatically watch"...
> John
- Sam Ruby
> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:07 AM Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>
>> Background, from https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-13804
>>
>> > With this feedback and review, I believe we're still operating as
>> expected.
>> >
>> > * Per current policy, IPMC members have commit privileges on all
>> Incubator repositories.
>> > * The above is effected through the use of a private GitHub Team
>> > * According to users' GitHub preferences, they will Watch new
>> repositories
>> > * GitHub is sending notifications of changes, per Watch selections
>> >
>> > The "answer" here is to Unwatch repositories, as appropriate, and/or
>> > to alter the GitHub user account preference for auto-Watching new
>> > repositories.
>>
>> Here's my case:
>>
>> I believe that asking all IPMC members that request access to *any* ASF
>> github repository to get notification emails on *all* incubator projects
>> that participate in the gitbox experiment is unreasonable.
>>
>> I believe that asking all IPMC members to individually unwatch each and
>> every repository as they are created is unreasonable.
>>
>> I believe that asking all IPMC members to uncheck "Automatically watch"
>> is unreasonable as it (a) will result in people being notified for new
>> repositories that they should be watching, and (b) presumes that people
>> are not participating/watching in other non-ASF GitHub repositories.
>>
>> Accordingly, Since I do believe that it is reasonable for every ASF
>> member to get email on all ASF repositories that they have commit
>> privileges to, I am asking that the IPMC revisit the current policy that
>> all IPMC members have commit privileges on all Incubator repositories.
>>
>> I believe that the alternative is technically feasible: have each
>> podling manage a list of committers for that podling:
>>
>> https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/
>>
>> - Sam Ruby
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
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Re: Revisit policy that all IPMC members have commit privs to all
incubator repositories.
Posted by "John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>.
This solution describes one of the many reasons I feel the incubator itself
is broken. We're trying to rewrite policy, as a means to work around some
awkward setup sitting around, instead of just treating podlings as regular
projects, with some restrictions in place.
Create something in ldap that is org.apache.incubator.$podling. When
secretary processes new accounts, they're being added into this area,
instead of the incubator area.
IPMC members have access to execute something that adds committers to
podlings. It could be a special ou for mentors, which VP incubator has
access to.
This has to net less maintenance from infra to make podlings more like TLPs.
The one thing Sam misses in this email, there is a way to fix your
notification scheme easily in github -
https://github.com/settings/notifications - uncheck "Automatically Watch
Repositories"
John
On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:07 AM Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> Background, from https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-13804
>
> > With this feedback and review, I believe we're still operating as
> expected.
> >
> > * Per current policy, IPMC members have commit privileges on all
> Incubator repositories.
> > * The above is effected through the use of a private GitHub Team
> > * According to users' GitHub preferences, they will Watch new
> repositories
> > * GitHub is sending notifications of changes, per Watch selections
> >
> > The "answer" here is to Unwatch repositories, as appropriate, and/or
> > to alter the GitHub user account preference for auto-Watching new
> > repositories.
>
> Here's my case:
>
> I believe that asking all IPMC members that request access to *any* ASF
> github repository to get notification emails on *all* incubator projects
> that participate in the gitbox experiment is unreasonable.
>
> I believe that asking all IPMC members to individually unwatch each and
> every repository as they are created is unreasonable.
>
> I believe that asking all IPMC members to uncheck "Automatically watch"
> is unreasonable as it (a) will result in people being notified for new
> repositories that they should be watching, and (b) presumes that people
> are not participating/watching in other non-ASF GitHub repositories.
>
> Accordingly, Since I do believe that it is reasonable for every ASF
> member to get email on all ASF repositories that they have commit
> privileges to, I am asking that the IPMC revisit the current policy that
> all IPMC members have commit privileges on all Incubator repositories.
>
> I believe that the alternative is technically feasible: have each
> podling manage a list of committers for that podling:
>
> https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Revisit policy that all IPMC members have commit privs to all
incubator repositories.
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
That conclusion sounds pretty scary in isolation.
But if taken along the garden path in small steps, it seems really very
right.
Given that under this proposal any IPMC member could get access to anything
needed, I don't see any particular loss.
Also, with reasonable whimsy tooling, the maintenance could be made pretty
easy.
On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:06 PM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> Background, from https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-13804
>
> With this feedback and review, I believe we're still operating as expected.
>>
>> * Per current policy, IPMC members have commit privileges on all
>> Incubator repositories.
>> * The above is effected through the use of a private GitHub Team
>> * According to users' GitHub preferences, they will Watch new repositories
>> * GitHub is sending notifications of changes, per Watch selections
>>
>> The "answer" here is to Unwatch repositories, as appropriate, and/or
>> to alter the GitHub user account preference for auto-Watching new
>> repositories.
>>
>
> Here's my case:
>
> I believe that asking all IPMC members that request access to *any* ASF
> github repository to get notification emails on *all* incubator projects
> that participate in the gitbox experiment is unreasonable.
>
> I believe that asking all IPMC members to individually unwatch each and
> every repository as they are created is unreasonable.
>
> I believe that asking all IPMC members to uncheck "Automatically watch" is
> unreasonable as it (a) will result in people being notified for new
> repositories that they should be watching, and (b) presumes that people are
> not participating/watching in other non-ASF GitHub repositories.
>
> Accordingly, Since I do believe that it is reasonable for every ASF member
> to get email on all ASF repositories that they have commit privileges to, I
> am asking that the IPMC revisit the current policy that all IPMC members
> have commit privileges on all Incubator repositories.
>
> I believe that the alternative is technically feasible: have each podling
> manage a list of committers for that podling:
>
> https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Revisit policy that all IPMC members have commit privs to all
incubator repositories.
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 7:06 AM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> ...I believe that the alternative is technically feasible: have each podling
> manage a list of committers for that podling:
>
> https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/
Which is what they will have to do anyway after graduating, right?
In which case this makes a lot of sense to me.
-Bertrand
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Re: Revisit policy that all IPMC members have commit privs to all
incubator repositories.
Posted by Felix Meschberger <fm...@adobe.com>.
Hi
I think this sounds very reasonable.
+1
Regards
Felix
> Am 06.04.2017 um 07:06 schrieb Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>:
>
> Background, from https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-13804
>
>> With this feedback and review, I believe we're still operating as expected.
>>
>> * Per current policy, IPMC members have commit privileges on all Incubator repositories.
>> * The above is effected through the use of a private GitHub Team
>> * According to users' GitHub preferences, they will Watch new repositories
>> * GitHub is sending notifications of changes, per Watch selections
>>
>> The "answer" here is to Unwatch repositories, as appropriate, and/or
>> to alter the GitHub user account preference for auto-Watching new
>> repositories.
>
> Here's my case:
>
> I believe that asking all IPMC members that request access to *any* ASF github repository to get notification emails on *all* incubator projects that participate in the gitbox experiment is unreasonable.
>
> I believe that asking all IPMC members to individually unwatch each and every repository as they are created is unreasonable.
>
> I believe that asking all IPMC members to uncheck "Automatically watch" is unreasonable as it (a) will result in people being notified for new repositories that they should be watching, and (b) presumes that people are not participating/watching in other non-ASF GitHub repositories.
>
> Accordingly, Since I do believe that it is reasonable for every ASF member to get email on all ASF repositories that they have commit privileges to, I am asking that the IPMC revisit the current policy that all IPMC members have commit privileges on all Incubator repositories.
>
> I believe that the alternative is technically feasible: have each podling manage a list of committers for that podling:
>
> https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
>
>
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Re: Revisit policy that all IPMC members have commit privs to all
incubator repositories.
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> What's the next step? Can I just work with the infrastructure team to
> make this happen? Do we need a formal vote?
In my view there is no need for a vote. This is not covered on the
Incubation_Policy page as far as I can tell.
If memory serves correctly, when we adopted the practice of relying on
social enforcement rather than technical enforcement of commit
privileges, it was spurred in part by infrastructure simplification:
avoiding maintenance of per-podling Subversion ACLs. That the practice
we adopted didn't cause problems demonstrates that relying on social
enforcement (and commit email monitoring) suffices, so the arguments
that won the day back then were sound.
But just because we didn't need ACLs doesn't mean that we absolutely
must not have them. Today, we have a different infrastructure concern:
it's simpler to divide up commit privileges than to unify them. Sure
-- I don't see a problem with that. +1 to go ahead and collaborate
with infra to make it happen.
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: Revisit policy that all IPMC members have commit privs to all
incubator repositories.
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 9:24 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
<bd...@codeconsult.ch> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>> ...The very first line of this thread is a link to an INFRA ticket. A
>> comment on that ticket links to this very thread...
>
> Ok thanks! It would be nice to change the title of that
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-13804 ticket to make
> things clearer, currently it says "Remove curcuru from
> /apache/teams/openwhisk-committers" - and I don't seem to have karma
> to make that change.
Done. Note that ticket is specific to gitbox. There may be other
tickets in the future.
> -Bertrand
- Sam Ruby
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Re: Revisit policy that all IPMC members have commit privs to all
incubator repositories.
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> ...The very first line of this thread is a link to an INFRA ticket. A
> comment on that ticket links to this very thread...
Ok thanks! It would be nice to change the title of that
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-13804 ticket to make
things clearer, currently it says "Remove curcuru from
/apache/teams/openwhisk-committers" - and I don't seem to have karma
to make that change.
-Bertrand
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Re: Revisit policy that all IPMC members have commit privs to all
incubator repositories.
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 3:38 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
<bd...@codeconsult.ch> wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>> ...Can I just work with the infrastructure team to
>> make this happen? Do we need a formal vote?..
>
> As Marvin explains very well I don't think we need a formal vote but
> I'd like whatever actions are taken, as well as their motivations, to
> be briefly documented in an
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR ticket. Or INFRA
> ticket linked here.
>
> Links are fine, no need for long prose but just as a way to be able to
> understand what happened and why, in case 2-3 years down the line this
> has to be revisited. Like what's happening now ;-)
The very first line of this thread is a link to an INFRA ticket. A
comment on that ticket links to this very thread.
> -Bertrand
- Sam Ruby
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Re: Revisit policy that all IPMC members have commit privs to all
incubator repositories.
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> ...Can I just work with the infrastructure team to
> make this happen? Do we need a formal vote?..
As Marvin explains very well I don't think we need a formal vote but
I'd like whatever actions are taken, as well as their motivations, to
be briefly documented in an
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR ticket. Or INFRA
ticket linked here.
Links are fine, no need for long prose but just as a way to be able to
understand what happened and why, in case 2-3 years down the line this
has to be revisited. Like what's happening now ;-)
-Bertrand
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Re: Revisit policy that all IPMC members have commit privs to all
incubator repositories.
Posted by "John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 6:51 PM Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 6:29 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > [...]
> > 3. The interface itself needs to be able to track committers and PPMC
> > members differently. I've created
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WHIMSY-84 to track this need
> (since
> > all committers == all members, but not all members are on the PPMC)
>
> From an implementation perspective, I've got that code for PMCs so it
> will be easy to add. It just means that when people are added there
> will be one additional question asked that will be unnecessary in the
> general case.
>
Not to dive into the UX - it can be a drop down (selection) that defaults
to PPMC for all I care. Its usually what happens.
>
> >[...]
> > If you look at the committer vs PPMC thing, one other item may be to not
> > email private@incubator for new podling committers - its not relevant
> to us.
>
> cc private@incubator only for PPMC changes but not committer changes...
> got it.
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
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>
Re: Revisit policy that all IPMC members have commit privs to all
incubator repositories.
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 6:29 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org> wrote:
> [...]
> 3. The interface itself needs to be able to track committers and PPMC
> members differently. I've created
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WHIMSY-84 to track this need (since
> all committers == all members, but not all members are on the PPMC)
From an implementation perspective, I've got that code for PMCs so it
will be easy to add. It just means that when people are added there
will be one additional question asked that will be unnecessary in the
general case.
>[...]
> If you look at the committer vs PPMC thing, one other item may be to not
> email private@incubator for new podling committers - its not relevant to us.
cc private@incubator only for PPMC changes but not committer changes... got it.
- Sam Ruby
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Re: Revisit policy that all IPMC members have commit privs to all
incubator repositories.
Posted by "John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>.
Sam
Thanks for the long response, sometimes length beats crispness. Some
comments in line, summary of my thoughts towards the end. I will say - I'm
glad that it looks like we're aligned with long term goals.
On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 1:42 PM Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 11:09 AM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 2:23 PM Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> >
> >> What's the next step? Can I just work with the infrastructure team to
> >> make this happen? Do we need a formal vote?
> >>
> > Can you clarify what exactly you're going to ask infra to change? I see
> > that infra has made a gitbox specific change, I would expect to see a
> > incubator-wide change.
>
> I'm not certain I've got a crisp answer. I'm also not looking to make
> any quick changes. See this thread, for example, of prior work along
> these lines: https://s.apache.org/75Pb
>
> For the short term, what I am asking is that since committers are
> notified of changes (good!) that the default not be that all IPMC
> members are committers for all podling repositories.
>
> ---
>
> Longer term, I'm looking to establish a canonical locate for all of
> our records, be it LDAP, text files, whatever. If there are multiple
> locations of record, find ways to ensure that they are in sync, if
> that is at all possible. An example:
>
> https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/members
>
> Click twice on status, and you will see a handful of exceptions where
> LDAP doesn't match members.txt. These exceptions are intentional.
>
>
Well, yes and no. The discrepancies are because we have to give people a
certain access level to work with certain pieces of the shop, and have it
tied too tightly with our corporate structure (just from looking at the
names).
> Separately, I'm trying to make the whimsy roster tool an interface to
> find (and over time, change) these records. Note that I said "an
> interface", others are possible.
>
>
I'm glad to hear this. There are three changes I'd like to propose to
incubator docs (not incubator policy) and the roster tool:
1. http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html#Project+Status+Updates -
indicate that maintaining roster in these files is DEPRECATED
2. http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html#Voting+in+a+new+committer -
indicate that additional committers should be added via whimsy
3. The interface itself needs to be able to track committers and PPMC
members differently. I've created
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WHIMSY-84 to track this need (since
all committers == all members, but not all members are on the PPMC)
> ---
>
> More specific to the incubator, I'm proposing that we maintain in LDAP
> a list of members in each podling (including mentors) and use that
> list to drive everything from phonebook to commit access in gitbox to
> who can view what mailing lists in ponymail to JIRA.
>
> Having a common place to administer the roster for a podling just
> seems like a good idea.
>
> I encourage people to explore https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/
> and to update the membership of podlings that they are participating
> in. Things should be set up so that if you are in the list for that
> podling, you can change that list. Every change made through this
> interface will cause an email to be sent to the private list for the
> podling, the private list for the incubator, and root@ so that the
> infrastructure team is aware of the change.
>
>
If you look at the committer vs PPMC thing, one other item may be to not
email private@incubator for new podling committers - its not relevant to us.
> - Sam Ruby
>
>
> >> - Sam Ruby
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:06 AM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>
> wrote:
> >> > Background, from https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-13804
> >> >
> >> >> With this feedback and review, I believe we're still operating as
> >> >> expected.
> >> >>
> >> >> * Per current policy, IPMC members have commit privileges on all
> >> Incubator
> >> >> repositories.
> >> >> * The above is effected through the use of a private GitHub Team
> >> >> * According to users' GitHub preferences, they will Watch new
> >> repositories
> >> >> * GitHub is sending notifications of changes, per Watch selections
> >> >>
> >> >> The "answer" here is to Unwatch repositories, as appropriate, and/or
> >> >> to alter the GitHub user account preference for auto-Watching new
> >> >> repositories.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Here's my case:
> >> >
> >> > I believe that asking all IPMC members that request access to *any*
> ASF
> >> > github repository to get notification emails on *all* incubator
> projects
> >> > that participate in the gitbox experiment is unreasonable.
> >> >
> >> > I believe that asking all IPMC members to individually unwatch each
> and
> >> > every repository as they are created is unreasonable.
> >> >
> >> > I believe that asking all IPMC members to uncheck "Automatically
> watch"
> >> is
> >> > unreasonable as it (a) will result in people being notified for new
> >> > repositories that they should be watching, and (b) presumes that
> people
> >> are
> >> > not participating/watching in other non-ASF GitHub repositories.
> >> >
> >> > Accordingly, Since I do believe that it is reasonable for every ASF
> >> member
> >> > to get email on all ASF repositories that they have commit privileges
> >> to, I
> >> > am asking that the IPMC revisit the current policy that all IPMC
> members
> >> > have commit privileges on all Incubator repositories.
> >> >
> >> > I believe that the alternative is technically feasible: have each
> podling
> >> > manage a list of committers for that podling:
> >> >
> >> > https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/
> >> >
> >> > - Sam Ruby
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >> >
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Revisit policy that all IPMC members have commit privs to all
incubator repositories.
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 11:09 AM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 2:23 PM Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>
>> What's the next step? Can I just work with the infrastructure team to
>> make this happen? Do we need a formal vote?
>>
> Can you clarify what exactly you're going to ask infra to change? I see
> that infra has made a gitbox specific change, I would expect to see a
> incubator-wide change.
I'm not certain I've got a crisp answer. I'm also not looking to make
any quick changes. See this thread, for example, of prior work along
these lines: https://s.apache.org/75Pb
For the short term, what I am asking is that since committers are
notified of changes (good!) that the default not be that all IPMC
members are committers for all podling repositories.
---
Longer term, I'm looking to establish a canonical locate for all of
our records, be it LDAP, text files, whatever. If there are multiple
locations of record, find ways to ensure that they are in sync, if
that is at all possible. An example:
https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/members
Click twice on status, and you will see a handful of exceptions where
LDAP doesn't match members.txt. These exceptions are intentional.
Separately, I'm trying to make the whimsy roster tool an interface to
find (and over time, change) these records. Note that I said "an
interface", others are possible.
---
More specific to the incubator, I'm proposing that we maintain in LDAP
a list of members in each podling (including mentors) and use that
list to drive everything from phonebook to commit access in gitbox to
who can view what mailing lists in ponymail to JIRA.
Having a common place to administer the roster for a podling just
seems like a good idea.
I encourage people to explore https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/
and to update the membership of podlings that they are participating
in. Things should be set up so that if you are in the list for that
podling, you can change that list. Every change made through this
interface will cause an email to be sent to the private list for the
podling, the private list for the incubator, and root@ so that the
infrastructure team is aware of the change.
- Sam Ruby
>> - Sam Ruby
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:06 AM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>> > Background, from https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-13804
>> >
>> >> With this feedback and review, I believe we're still operating as
>> >> expected.
>> >>
>> >> * Per current policy, IPMC members have commit privileges on all
>> Incubator
>> >> repositories.
>> >> * The above is effected through the use of a private GitHub Team
>> >> * According to users' GitHub preferences, they will Watch new
>> repositories
>> >> * GitHub is sending notifications of changes, per Watch selections
>> >>
>> >> The "answer" here is to Unwatch repositories, as appropriate, and/or
>> >> to alter the GitHub user account preference for auto-Watching new
>> >> repositories.
>> >
>> >
>> > Here's my case:
>> >
>> > I believe that asking all IPMC members that request access to *any* ASF
>> > github repository to get notification emails on *all* incubator projects
>> > that participate in the gitbox experiment is unreasonable.
>> >
>> > I believe that asking all IPMC members to individually unwatch each and
>> > every repository as they are created is unreasonable.
>> >
>> > I believe that asking all IPMC members to uncheck "Automatically watch"
>> is
>> > unreasonable as it (a) will result in people being notified for new
>> > repositories that they should be watching, and (b) presumes that people
>> are
>> > not participating/watching in other non-ASF GitHub repositories.
>> >
>> > Accordingly, Since I do believe that it is reasonable for every ASF
>> member
>> > to get email on all ASF repositories that they have commit privileges
>> to, I
>> > am asking that the IPMC revisit the current policy that all IPMC members
>> > have commit privileges on all Incubator repositories.
>> >
>> > I believe that the alternative is technically feasible: have each podling
>> > manage a list of committers for that podling:
>> >
>> > https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/
>> >
>> > - Sam Ruby
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Revisit policy that all IPMC members have commit privs to all
incubator repositories.
Posted by "John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>.
On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 2:23 PM Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> What's the next step? Can I just work with the infrastructure team to
> make this happen? Do we need a formal vote?
>
>
Can you clarify what exactly you're going to ask infra to change? I see
that infra has made a gitbox specific change, I would expect to see a
incubator-wide change.
> - Sam Ruby
>
> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:06 AM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> > Background, from https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-13804
> >
> >> With this feedback and review, I believe we're still operating as
> >> expected.
> >>
> >> * Per current policy, IPMC members have commit privileges on all
> Incubator
> >> repositories.
> >> * The above is effected through the use of a private GitHub Team
> >> * According to users' GitHub preferences, they will Watch new
> repositories
> >> * GitHub is sending notifications of changes, per Watch selections
> >>
> >> The "answer" here is to Unwatch repositories, as appropriate, and/or
> >> to alter the GitHub user account preference for auto-Watching new
> >> repositories.
> >
> >
> > Here's my case:
> >
> > I believe that asking all IPMC members that request access to *any* ASF
> > github repository to get notification emails on *all* incubator projects
> > that participate in the gitbox experiment is unreasonable.
> >
> > I believe that asking all IPMC members to individually unwatch each and
> > every repository as they are created is unreasonable.
> >
> > I believe that asking all IPMC members to uncheck "Automatically watch"
> is
> > unreasonable as it (a) will result in people being notified for new
> > repositories that they should be watching, and (b) presumes that people
> are
> > not participating/watching in other non-ASF GitHub repositories.
> >
> > Accordingly, Since I do believe that it is reasonable for every ASF
> member
> > to get email on all ASF repositories that they have commit privileges
> to, I
> > am asking that the IPMC revisit the current policy that all IPMC members
> > have commit privileges on all Incubator repositories.
> >
> > I believe that the alternative is technically feasible: have each podling
> > manage a list of committers for that podling:
> >
> > https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/
> >
> > - Sam Ruby
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Revisit policy that all IPMC members have commit privs to all
incubator repositories.
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
What's the next step? Can I just work with the infrastructure team to
make this happen? Do we need a formal vote?
- Sam Ruby
On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:06 AM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> Background, from https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-13804
>
>> With this feedback and review, I believe we're still operating as
>> expected.
>>
>> * Per current policy, IPMC members have commit privileges on all Incubator
>> repositories.
>> * The above is effected through the use of a private GitHub Team
>> * According to users' GitHub preferences, they will Watch new repositories
>> * GitHub is sending notifications of changes, per Watch selections
>>
>> The "answer" here is to Unwatch repositories, as appropriate, and/or
>> to alter the GitHub user account preference for auto-Watching new
>> repositories.
>
>
> Here's my case:
>
> I believe that asking all IPMC members that request access to *any* ASF
> github repository to get notification emails on *all* incubator projects
> that participate in the gitbox experiment is unreasonable.
>
> I believe that asking all IPMC members to individually unwatch each and
> every repository as they are created is unreasonable.
>
> I believe that asking all IPMC members to uncheck "Automatically watch" is
> unreasonable as it (a) will result in people being notified for new
> repositories that they should be watching, and (b) presumes that people are
> not participating/watching in other non-ASF GitHub repositories.
>
> Accordingly, Since I do believe that it is reasonable for every ASF member
> to get email on all ASF repositories that they have commit privileges to, I
> am asking that the IPMC revisit the current policy that all IPMC members
> have commit privileges on all Incubator repositories.
>
> I believe that the alternative is technically feasible: have each podling
> manage a list of committers for that podling:
>
> https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
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