[DISCUSS] Jenkins notifications to dev list?

[Christopher <ct...@apache.org>]

Okay, so after some investigation (
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12252), it appears that
notifications@ is simply configured to block email from non apache
addresses.

So, I have three possible solutions, if the Accumulo devs wish to receive
build notifications from my instance of Jenkins:

1. I use my personal ASF creds on Jenkins to send build notifications as
myself.
2. The Accumulo project request the configuration of notifications@ to be
changed to allow non-apache addresses.
3. I configure Jenkins to post to the dev list (if possible).

My preference in order is #3, then #2, then #1 last.

Re: [DISCUSS] Jenkins notifications to dev list?

[Josh Elser <jo...@gmail.com>]

Ditto on the below. I would love ASF-provided infra, but do not believe 
it feasible for what we actually need. Do we need to perform some 
diligence before going this route? Do we need to get an idea on actual 
specs?

Christopher wrote:
> Possibly. I did not pursue that route because I was pessimistic we could
> get something powerful enough allocated to us.
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 6:33 PM Sean Busbey<bu...@cloudera.com>  wrote:
>
>> What do we need to do to get an instance that we *would* be willing to
>> rely on as the PMC? We could file an INFRA ticket for a VM we handle
>> ourselves and then run a CI solution apart from the primary ASF
>> jenkins infra.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>  wrote:
>>> That's just it... I don't want to encourage a dependence on it. It
>> provides
>>> some utility, yes, but I don't want to cross over into the area of it
>> being
>>> formally relied upon by the Accumulo PMC... because that raises the
>>> concerns which my previous disclaimer email was supposed to alleviate.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 5:50 PM Josh Elser<jo...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> But, at the same time, if we're going to be using this as a reliable
>>>> means for whether or not our tests are passing (which I would expect all
>>>> developers to be doing), it should be written down like we do for other
>>>> developer-related knowledge.
>>>>
>>>> I don't see why we can't present it with the caveats you state. It feels
>>>> like we're starting a boys-club if we have something we're going to rely
>>>> upon for development that we don't tell anyone about...
>>>>
>>>> Christopher wrote:
>>>>> Given its "non-official" status (with respect to its affiliation with
>> the
>>>>> Foundation and PMC), I'd prefer not to formally list it on the
>> website.
>>>>> That might imply some long-term persistence and/or guarantees about
>>>>> availability to the community, and I cannot offer such guarantees.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:57 PM Josh Elser<jo...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>> Bueno. Makes sense to me and avoids future issues with that lengthy
>>>>>> disclaimer you sent previously :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe have something on the website for contributors/new-devs to find
>>>>>> out about too?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christopher wrote:
>>>>>>> Well, it's already self-service, for those I've added. For anybody
>>>> else,
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> can add you if you send me your GitHub username. Then, you'll just
>> have
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> accept my invitation to the revelc organization on GitHub, and
>> you'll
>>>> be
>>>>>>> able to log in and add yourself to the post-build notifications.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:48 PM Josh Elser<jo...@gmail.com>
>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>> Yeah, that's a decent intermediate step. Getting an email is pretty
>>>> much
>>>>>>>> the only thing that's going to force me to pay attention.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Making it self-service would be an even bigger plus, but I'm OK
>>>> waiting
>>>>>>>> for "Christopher response time" :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michael Wall wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I am good with that option Christopher.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> The other option is that if people really want to subscribe to
>>>>>>>>>> notifications, I can just add their email to the post-build
>>>>>> notification
>>>>>>>>>> email list directly. Since I'm willing to grant access to
>> Accumulo
>>>>>>>>>> developers already, they can also just add themselves by editing
>> the
>>>>>>>>>> existing jobs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> RIght now, I'm thinking: add yourself (or I can add you) to the
>>>>>>>> post-build
>>>>>>>>>> notification, or use the RSS, is the best option. No dev@ list,
>> no
>>>>>>>>>> notifications@ list. It's just too much trouble.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:28 PM Keith Turner<ke...@deenlo.com>
>>>>>>    wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Personally I am not in favor of automated things sending stuff
>> to
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> dev
>>>>>>>>>>> list.  I like the dev just being discussion among humans.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Dylan Hutchison<
>>>>>>>>>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, sending failed build notifications to the
>> dev
>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>> motivates us to not break the tests and make the tests stable.
>>>> I'll
>>>>>>>>>>> leave
>>>>>>>>>>>> it to your decision Chris, unless others have an opinion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Christopher<
>> ctubbsii@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:02 PM Dylan Hutchison<
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Christopher<
>>>> ctubbsii@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so after some investigation (
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12252), it
>> appears
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> notifications@ is simply configured to block email from non
>>>>>>>>>> apache
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> addresses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, I have three possible solutions, if the Accumulo devs
>> wish
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> receive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build notifications from my instance of Jenkins:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. I use my personal ASF creds on Jenkins to send build
>>>>>>>>>>> notifications
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. The Accumulo project request the configuration of
>>>>>>>>>> notifications@
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changed to allow non-apache addresses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #2 sounds ideal to me, if possible.  Sending build emails to
>> dev
>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drive some people to un-subscribe.  On the other hand, people
>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> sign
>>>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for notifications@ are asking for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My reason for being reluctant to pick #2 as my preference was
>>>> that
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> know what additional burden that might place on the
>> moderators.
>>>>>> Plus,
>>>>>>>>>>>> INFRA
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or, at least Gavin, on that ticket and in HipChat when I
>> thanked
>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> clarifying) seemed pretty satisfied with the existing
>> conventions
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>>>> @
>>>>>>>>>>>>> apache.org only. I'd prefer to conform to Foundation-wide
>>>>>>>>>> conventions
>>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it comes to infra stuffs, whenever possible. I know how much
>> work
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> INFRA to constantly ask them for special requests which
>> diverge
>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> norm, especially when they are managing so much already.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Breaking conventions within our community like #3 posed would
>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> preferable
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to me, rather than breaking Foundation-wide infra conventions.
>>>> But,
>>>>>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>> right that it could annoy subscribers. If I remember
>> correctly,
>>>>>>>>>> Commons
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one community which does this, sending build notifications to
>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>> dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another option is a new email list.  It doesn't even have to
>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ASF-affiliated.  It could be some list you personally create
>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Accumulo devs personally decide to sign up for.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's possible. I could set up a list specifically associated
>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jenkins server. It already has an RSS feed, which might be
>>>> better,
>>>>>>>>>>>> though,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> if people want to subscribe to builds that way. The main
>> purpose
>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting it up was to provide direct feedback to this
>> community,
>>>>>>>>>> though,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather than force folks to go seek out that feedback. If the
>> RSS
>>>>>> feed
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sufficient for people, then that would save me some trouble,
>>>>>>>>>> though...
>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly the easiest thing to do (nothing).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Plus, it is also putting notifications in IRC. So maybe,
>> RSS+IRC
>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> than enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. I configure Jenkins to post to the dev list (if possible).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My preference in order is #3, then #2, then #1 last.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> busbey
>>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Jenkins notifications to dev list?

[Christopher <ct...@apache.org>]

Possibly. I did not pursue that route because I was pessimistic we could
get something powerful enough allocated to us.

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 6:33 PM Sean Busbey <bu...@cloudera.com> wrote:

> What do we need to do to get an instance that we *would* be willing to
> rely on as the PMC? We could file an INFRA ticket for a VM we handle
> ourselves and then run a CI solution apart from the primary ASF
> jenkins infra.
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:
> > That's just it... I don't want to encourage a dependence on it. It
> provides
> > some utility, yes, but I don't want to cross over into the area of it
> being
> > formally relied upon by the Accumulo PMC... because that raises the
> > concerns which my previous disclaimer email was supposed to alleviate.
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 5:50 PM Josh Elser <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> But, at the same time, if we're going to be using this as a reliable
> >> means for whether or not our tests are passing (which I would expect all
> >> developers to be doing), it should be written down like we do for other
> >> developer-related knowledge.
> >>
> >> I don't see why we can't present it with the caveats you state. It feels
> >> like we're starting a boys-club if we have something we're going to rely
> >> upon for development that we don't tell anyone about...
> >>
> >> Christopher wrote:
> >> > Given its "non-official" status (with respect to its affiliation with
> the
> >> > Foundation and PMC), I'd prefer not to formally list it on the
> website.
> >> > That might imply some long-term persistence and/or guarantees about
> >> > availability to the community, and I cannot offer such guarantees.
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:57 PM Josh Elser<jo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Bueno. Makes sense to me and avoids future issues with that lengthy
> >> >> disclaimer you sent previously :)
> >> >>
> >> >> Maybe have something on the website for contributors/new-devs to find
> >> >> out about too?
> >> >>
> >> >> Christopher wrote:
> >> >>> Well, it's already self-service, for those I've added. For anybody
> >> else,
> >> >> I
> >> >>> can add you if you send me your GitHub username. Then, you'll just
> have
> >> >> to
> >> >>> accept my invitation to the revelc organization on GitHub, and
> you'll
> >> be
> >> >>> able to log in and add yourself to the post-build notifications.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:48 PM Josh Elser<jo...@gmail.com>
> >>  wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> Yeah, that's a decent intermediate step. Getting an email is pretty
> >> much
> >> >>>> the only thing that's going to force me to pay attention.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Making it self-service would be an even bigger plus, but I'm OK
> >> waiting
> >> >>>> for "Christopher response time" :)
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Michael Wall wrote:
> >> >>>>> I am good with that option Christopher.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>
> >> >>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>> The other option is that if people really want to subscribe to
> >> >>>>>> notifications, I can just add their email to the post-build
> >> >> notification
> >> >>>>>> email list directly. Since I'm willing to grant access to
> Accumulo
> >> >>>>>> developers already, they can also just add themselves by editing
> the
> >> >>>>>> existing jobs.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> RIght now, I'm thinking: add yourself (or I can add you) to the
> >> >>>> post-build
> >> >>>>>> notification, or use the RSS, is the best option. No dev@ list,
> no
> >> >>>>>> notifications@ list. It's just too much trouble.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:28 PM Keith Turner<ke...@deenlo.com>
> >> >>   wrote:
> >> >>>>>>> Personally I am not in favor of automated things sending stuff
> to
> >> the
> >> >>>> dev
> >> >>>>>>> list.  I like the dev just being discussion among humans.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Dylan Hutchison<
> >> >>>>>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu
> >> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>> On the other hand, sending failed build notifications to the
> dev
> >> >> list
> >> >>>>>>>> motivates us to not break the tests and make the tests stable.
> >> I'll
> >> >>>>>>> leave
> >> >>>>>>>> it to your decision Chris, unless others have an opinion.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Christopher<
> ctubbsii@apache.org>
> >> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:02 PM Dylan Hutchison<
> >> >>>>>>>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu>
> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Christopher<
> >> ctubbsii@apache.org>
> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so after some investigation (
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12252), it
> appears
> >> >>>>>>> that
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> notifications@ is simply configured to block email from non
> >> >>>>>> apache
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> addresses.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> So, I have three possible solutions, if the Accumulo devs
> wish
> >> to
> >> >>>>>>>>> receive
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> build notifications from my instance of Jenkins:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> 1. I use my personal ASF creds on Jenkins to send build
> >> >>>>>>> notifications
> >> >>>>>>>>> as
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> myself.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> 2. The Accumulo project request the configuration of
> >> >>>>>> notifications@
> >> >>>>>>>> to
> >> >>>>>>>>>> be
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> changed to allow non-apache addresses.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>> #2 sounds ideal to me, if possible.  Sending build emails to
> dev
> >> >>>>>>> would
> >> >>>>>>>>>> drive some people to un-subscribe.  On the other hand, people
> >> that
> >> >>>>>>> sign
> >> >>>>>>>>> up
> >> >>>>>>>>>> for notifications@ are asking for it.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> My reason for being reluctant to pick #2 as my preference was
> >> that
> >> >> I
> >> >>>>>>>> don't
> >> >>>>>>>>> know what additional burden that might place on the
> moderators.
> >> >> Plus,
> >> >>>>>>>> INFRA
> >> >>>>>>>>> (or, at least Gavin, on that ticket and in HipChat when I
> thanked
> >> >> him
> >> >>>>>>> for
> >> >>>>>>>>> clarifying) seemed pretty satisfied with the existing
> conventions
> >> >> of
> >> >>>>>>>> being
> >> >>>>>>>>> @
> >> >>>>>>>>> apache.org only. I'd prefer to conform to Foundation-wide
> >> >>>>>> conventions
> >> >>>>>>>> when
> >> >>>>>>>>> it comes to infra stuffs, whenever possible. I know how much
> work
> >> >> it
> >> >>>>>> is
> >> >>>>>>>> on
> >> >>>>>>>>> INFRA to constantly ask them for special requests which
> diverge
> >> >> from
> >> >>>>>>> the
> >> >>>>>>>>> norm, especially when they are managing so much already.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> Breaking conventions within our community like #3 posed would
> be
> >> >>>>>>>> preferable
> >> >>>>>>>>> to me, rather than breaking Foundation-wide infra conventions.
> >> But,
> >> >>>>>>>> you're
> >> >>>>>>>>> right that it could annoy subscribers. If I remember
> correctly,
> >> >>>>>> Commons
> >> >>>>>>>> is
> >> >>>>>>>>> one community which does this, sending build notifications to
> >> their
> >> >>>>>> dev
> >> >>>>>>>>> list.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>> Another option is a new email list.  It doesn't even have to
> be
> >> >>>>>>>>>> ASF-affiliated.  It could be some list you personally create
> >> that
> >> >>>>>>> many
> >> >>>>>>>>>> Accumulo devs personally decide to sign up for.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> That's possible. I could set up a list specifically associated
> >> with
> >> >>>>>>> that
> >> >>>>>>>>> Jenkins server. It already has an RSS feed, which might be
> >> better,
> >> >>>>>>>> though,
> >> >>>>>>>>> if people want to subscribe to builds that way. The main
> purpose
> >> of
> >> >>>>>> me
> >> >>>>>>>>> setting it up was to provide direct feedback to this
> community,
> >> >>>>>> though,
> >> >>>>>>>>> rather than force folks to go seek out that feedback. If the
> RSS
> >> >> feed
> >> >>>>>>> is
> >> >>>>>>>>> sufficient for people, then that would save me some trouble,
> >> >>>>>> though...
> >> >>>>>>>> it's
> >> >>>>>>>>> certainly the easiest thing to do (nothing).
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> Plus, it is also putting notifications in IRC. So maybe,
> RSS+IRC
> >> is
> >> >>>>>>> more
> >> >>>>>>>>> than enough.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>> 3. I configure Jenkins to post to the dev list (if possible).
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> My preference in order is #3, then #2, then #1 last.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >
> >>
>
>
>
> --
> busbey
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Jenkins notifications to dev list?

[Sean Busbey <bu...@cloudera.com>]

What do we need to do to get an instance that we *would* be willing to
rely on as the PMC? We could file an INFRA ticket for a VM we handle
ourselves and then run a CI solution apart from the primary ASF
jenkins infra.

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:
> That's just it... I don't want to encourage a dependence on it. It provides
> some utility, yes, but I don't want to cross over into the area of it being
> formally relied upon by the Accumulo PMC... because that raises the
> concerns which my previous disclaimer email was supposed to alleviate.
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 5:50 PM Josh Elser <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> But, at the same time, if we're going to be using this as a reliable
>> means for whether or not our tests are passing (which I would expect all
>> developers to be doing), it should be written down like we do for other
>> developer-related knowledge.
>>
>> I don't see why we can't present it with the caveats you state. It feels
>> like we're starting a boys-club if we have something we're going to rely
>> upon for development that we don't tell anyone about...
>>
>> Christopher wrote:
>> > Given its "non-official" status (with respect to its affiliation with the
>> > Foundation and PMC), I'd prefer not to formally list it on the website.
>> > That might imply some long-term persistence and/or guarantees about
>> > availability to the community, and I cannot offer such guarantees.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:57 PM Josh Elser<jo...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>> >
>> >> Bueno. Makes sense to me and avoids future issues with that lengthy
>> >> disclaimer you sent previously :)
>> >>
>> >> Maybe have something on the website for contributors/new-devs to find
>> >> out about too?
>> >>
>> >> Christopher wrote:
>> >>> Well, it's already self-service, for those I've added. For anybody
>> else,
>> >> I
>> >>> can add you if you send me your GitHub username. Then, you'll just have
>> >> to
>> >>> accept my invitation to the revelc organization on GitHub, and you'll
>> be
>> >>> able to log in and add yourself to the post-build notifications.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:48 PM Josh Elser<jo...@gmail.com>
>>  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Yeah, that's a decent intermediate step. Getting an email is pretty
>> much
>> >>>> the only thing that's going to force me to pay attention.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Making it self-service would be an even bigger plus, but I'm OK
>> waiting
>> >>>> for "Christopher response time" :)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Michael Wall wrote:
>> >>>>> I am good with that option Christopher.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>> The other option is that if people really want to subscribe to
>> >>>>>> notifications, I can just add their email to the post-build
>> >> notification
>> >>>>>> email list directly. Since I'm willing to grant access to Accumulo
>> >>>>>> developers already, they can also just add themselves by editing the
>> >>>>>> existing jobs.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> RIght now, I'm thinking: add yourself (or I can add you) to the
>> >>>> post-build
>> >>>>>> notification, or use the RSS, is the best option. No dev@ list, no
>> >>>>>> notifications@ list. It's just too much trouble.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:28 PM Keith Turner<ke...@deenlo.com>
>> >>   wrote:
>> >>>>>>> Personally I am not in favor of automated things sending stuff to
>> the
>> >>>> dev
>> >>>>>>> list.  I like the dev just being discussion among humans.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Dylan Hutchison<
>> >>>>>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu
>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> On the other hand, sending failed build notifications to the dev
>> >> list
>> >>>>>>>> motivates us to not break the tests and make the tests stable.
>> I'll
>> >>>>>>> leave
>> >>>>>>>> it to your decision Chris, unless others have an opinion.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:02 PM Dylan Hutchison<
>> >>>>>>>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu>
>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Christopher<
>> ctubbsii@apache.org>
>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so after some investigation (
>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12252), it appears
>> >>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>>>>>> notifications@ is simply configured to block email from non
>> >>>>>> apache
>> >>>>>>>>>>> addresses.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> So, I have three possible solutions, if the Accumulo devs wish
>> to
>> >>>>>>>>> receive
>> >>>>>>>>>>> build notifications from my instance of Jenkins:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> 1. I use my personal ASF creds on Jenkins to send build
>> >>>>>>> notifications
>> >>>>>>>>> as
>> >>>>>>>>>>> myself.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> 2. The Accumulo project request the configuration of
>> >>>>>> notifications@
>> >>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>> be
>> >>>>>>>>>>> changed to allow non-apache addresses.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> #2 sounds ideal to me, if possible.  Sending build emails to dev
>> >>>>>>> would
>> >>>>>>>>>> drive some people to un-subscribe.  On the other hand, people
>> that
>> >>>>>>> sign
>> >>>>>>>>> up
>> >>>>>>>>>> for notifications@ are asking for it.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> My reason for being reluctant to pick #2 as my preference was
>> that
>> >> I
>> >>>>>>>> don't
>> >>>>>>>>> know what additional burden that might place on the moderators.
>> >> Plus,
>> >>>>>>>> INFRA
>> >>>>>>>>> (or, at least Gavin, on that ticket and in HipChat when I thanked
>> >> him
>> >>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>>>> clarifying) seemed pretty satisfied with the existing conventions
>> >> of
>> >>>>>>>> being
>> >>>>>>>>> @
>> >>>>>>>>> apache.org only. I'd prefer to conform to Foundation-wide
>> >>>>>> conventions
>> >>>>>>>> when
>> >>>>>>>>> it comes to infra stuffs, whenever possible. I know how much work
>> >> it
>> >>>>>> is
>> >>>>>>>> on
>> >>>>>>>>> INFRA to constantly ask them for special requests which diverge
>> >> from
>> >>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>> norm, especially when they are managing so much already.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Breaking conventions within our community like #3 posed would be
>> >>>>>>>> preferable
>> >>>>>>>>> to me, rather than breaking Foundation-wide infra conventions.
>> But,
>> >>>>>>>> you're
>> >>>>>>>>> right that it could annoy subscribers. If I remember correctly,
>> >>>>>> Commons
>> >>>>>>>> is
>> >>>>>>>>> one community which does this, sending build notifications to
>> their
>> >>>>>> dev
>> >>>>>>>>> list.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Another option is a new email list.  It doesn't even have to be
>> >>>>>>>>>> ASF-affiliated.  It could be some list you personally create
>> that
>> >>>>>>> many
>> >>>>>>>>>> Accumulo devs personally decide to sign up for.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> That's possible. I could set up a list specifically associated
>> with
>> >>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>>>> Jenkins server. It already has an RSS feed, which might be
>> better,
>> >>>>>>>> though,
>> >>>>>>>>> if people want to subscribe to builds that way. The main purpose
>> of
>> >>>>>> me
>> >>>>>>>>> setting it up was to provide direct feedback to this community,
>> >>>>>> though,
>> >>>>>>>>> rather than force folks to go seek out that feedback. If the RSS
>> >> feed
>> >>>>>>> is
>> >>>>>>>>> sufficient for people, then that would save me some trouble,
>> >>>>>> though...
>> >>>>>>>> it's
>> >>>>>>>>> certainly the easiest thing to do (nothing).
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Plus, it is also putting notifications in IRC. So maybe, RSS+IRC
>> is
>> >>>>>>> more
>> >>>>>>>>> than enough.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> 3. I configure Jenkins to post to the dev list (if possible).
>> >>>>>>>>>>> My preference in order is #3, then #2, then #1 last.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >
>>



-- 
busbey

Re: [DISCUSS] Jenkins notifications to dev list?

[Christopher <ct...@apache.org>]

That's just it... I don't want to encourage a dependence on it. It provides
some utility, yes, but I don't want to cross over into the area of it being
formally relied upon by the Accumulo PMC... because that raises the
concerns which my previous disclaimer email was supposed to alleviate.

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 5:50 PM Josh Elser <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> But, at the same time, if we're going to be using this as a reliable
> means for whether or not our tests are passing (which I would expect all
> developers to be doing), it should be written down like we do for other
> developer-related knowledge.
>
> I don't see why we can't present it with the caveats you state. It feels
> like we're starting a boys-club if we have something we're going to rely
> upon for development that we don't tell anyone about...
>
> Christopher wrote:
> > Given its "non-official" status (with respect to its affiliation with the
> > Foundation and PMC), I'd prefer not to formally list it on the website.
> > That might imply some long-term persistence and/or guarantees about
> > availability to the community, and I cannot offer such guarantees.
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:57 PM Josh Elser<jo...@gmail.com>  wrote:
> >
> >> Bueno. Makes sense to me and avoids future issues with that lengthy
> >> disclaimer you sent previously :)
> >>
> >> Maybe have something on the website for contributors/new-devs to find
> >> out about too?
> >>
> >> Christopher wrote:
> >>> Well, it's already self-service, for those I've added. For anybody
> else,
> >> I
> >>> can add you if you send me your GitHub username. Then, you'll just have
> >> to
> >>> accept my invitation to the revelc organization on GitHub, and you'll
> be
> >>> able to log in and add yourself to the post-build notifications.
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:48 PM Josh Elser<jo...@gmail.com>
>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Yeah, that's a decent intermediate step. Getting an email is pretty
> much
> >>>> the only thing that's going to force me to pay attention.
> >>>>
> >>>> Making it self-service would be an even bigger plus, but I'm OK
> waiting
> >>>> for "Christopher response time" :)
> >>>>
> >>>> Michael Wall wrote:
> >>>>> I am good with that option Christopher.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> The other option is that if people really want to subscribe to
> >>>>>> notifications, I can just add their email to the post-build
> >> notification
> >>>>>> email list directly. Since I'm willing to grant access to Accumulo
> >>>>>> developers already, they can also just add themselves by editing the
> >>>>>> existing jobs.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> RIght now, I'm thinking: add yourself (or I can add you) to the
> >>>> post-build
> >>>>>> notification, or use the RSS, is the best option. No dev@ list, no
> >>>>>> notifications@ list. It's just too much trouble.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:28 PM Keith Turner<ke...@deenlo.com>
> >>   wrote:
> >>>>>>> Personally I am not in favor of automated things sending stuff to
> the
> >>>> dev
> >>>>>>> list.  I like the dev just being discussion among humans.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Dylan Hutchison<
> >>>>>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On the other hand, sending failed build notifications to the dev
> >> list
> >>>>>>>> motivates us to not break the tests and make the tests stable.
> I'll
> >>>>>>> leave
> >>>>>>>> it to your decision Chris, unless others have an opinion.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:02 PM Dylan Hutchison<
> >>>>>>>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Christopher<
> ctubbsii@apache.org>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so after some investigation (
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12252), it appears
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>>> notifications@ is simply configured to block email from non
> >>>>>> apache
> >>>>>>>>>>> addresses.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> So, I have three possible solutions, if the Accumulo devs wish
> to
> >>>>>>>>> receive
> >>>>>>>>>>> build notifications from my instance of Jenkins:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> 1. I use my personal ASF creds on Jenkins to send build
> >>>>>>> notifications
> >>>>>>>>> as
> >>>>>>>>>>> myself.
> >>>>>>>>>>> 2. The Accumulo project request the configuration of
> >>>>>> notifications@
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>>>> changed to allow non-apache addresses.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> #2 sounds ideal to me, if possible.  Sending build emails to dev
> >>>>>>> would
> >>>>>>>>>> drive some people to un-subscribe.  On the other hand, people
> that
> >>>>>>> sign
> >>>>>>>>> up
> >>>>>>>>>> for notifications@ are asking for it.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> My reason for being reluctant to pick #2 as my preference was
> that
> >> I
> >>>>>>>> don't
> >>>>>>>>> know what additional burden that might place on the moderators.
> >> Plus,
> >>>>>>>> INFRA
> >>>>>>>>> (or, at least Gavin, on that ticket and in HipChat when I thanked
> >> him
> >>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>>> clarifying) seemed pretty satisfied with the existing conventions
> >> of
> >>>>>>>> being
> >>>>>>>>> @
> >>>>>>>>> apache.org only. I'd prefer to conform to Foundation-wide
> >>>>>> conventions
> >>>>>>>> when
> >>>>>>>>> it comes to infra stuffs, whenever possible. I know how much work
> >> it
> >>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>> INFRA to constantly ask them for special requests which diverge
> >> from
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> norm, especially when they are managing so much already.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Breaking conventions within our community like #3 posed would be
> >>>>>>>> preferable
> >>>>>>>>> to me, rather than breaking Foundation-wide infra conventions.
> But,
> >>>>>>>> you're
> >>>>>>>>> right that it could annoy subscribers. If I remember correctly,
> >>>>>> Commons
> >>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>> one community which does this, sending build notifications to
> their
> >>>>>> dev
> >>>>>>>>> list.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Another option is a new email list.  It doesn't even have to be
> >>>>>>>>>> ASF-affiliated.  It could be some list you personally create
> that
> >>>>>>> many
> >>>>>>>>>> Accumulo devs personally decide to sign up for.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> That's possible. I could set up a list specifically associated
> with
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>> Jenkins server. It already has an RSS feed, which might be
> better,
> >>>>>>>> though,
> >>>>>>>>> if people want to subscribe to builds that way. The main purpose
> of
> >>>>>> me
> >>>>>>>>> setting it up was to provide direct feedback to this community,
> >>>>>> though,
> >>>>>>>>> rather than force folks to go seek out that feedback. If the RSS
> >> feed
> >>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>> sufficient for people, then that would save me some trouble,
> >>>>>> though...
> >>>>>>>> it's
> >>>>>>>>> certainly the easiest thing to do (nothing).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Plus, it is also putting notifications in IRC. So maybe, RSS+IRC
> is
> >>>>>>> more
> >>>>>>>>> than enough.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 3. I configure Jenkins to post to the dev list (if possible).
> >>>>>>>>>>> My preference in order is #3, then #2, then #1 last.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Jenkins notifications to dev list?

[Josh Elser <jo...@gmail.com>]

But, at the same time, if we're going to be using this as a reliable 
means for whether or not our tests are passing (which I would expect all 
developers to be doing), it should be written down like we do for other 
developer-related knowledge.

I don't see why we can't present it with the caveats you state. It feels 
like we're starting a boys-club if we have something we're going to rely 
upon for development that we don't tell anyone about...

Christopher wrote:
> Given its "non-official" status (with respect to its affiliation with the
> Foundation and PMC), I'd prefer not to formally list it on the website.
> That might imply some long-term persistence and/or guarantees about
> availability to the community, and I cannot offer such guarantees.
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:57 PM Josh Elser<jo...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> Bueno. Makes sense to me and avoids future issues with that lengthy
>> disclaimer you sent previously :)
>>
>> Maybe have something on the website for contributors/new-devs to find
>> out about too?
>>
>> Christopher wrote:
>>> Well, it's already self-service, for those I've added. For anybody else,
>> I
>>> can add you if you send me your GitHub username. Then, you'll just have
>> to
>>> accept my invitation to the revelc organization on GitHub, and you'll be
>>> able to log in and add yourself to the post-build notifications.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:48 PM Josh Elser<jo...@gmail.com>   wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah, that's a decent intermediate step. Getting an email is pretty much
>>>> the only thing that's going to force me to pay attention.
>>>>
>>>> Making it self-service would be an even bigger plus, but I'm OK waiting
>>>> for "Christopher response time" :)
>>>>
>>>> Michael Wall wrote:
>>>>> I am good with that option Christopher.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> The other option is that if people really want to subscribe to
>>>>>> notifications, I can just add their email to the post-build
>> notification
>>>>>> email list directly. Since I'm willing to grant access to Accumulo
>>>>>> developers already, they can also just add themselves by editing the
>>>>>> existing jobs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> RIght now, I'm thinking: add yourself (or I can add you) to the
>>>> post-build
>>>>>> notification, or use the RSS, is the best option. No dev@ list, no
>>>>>> notifications@ list. It's just too much trouble.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:28 PM Keith Turner<ke...@deenlo.com>
>>   wrote:
>>>>>>> Personally I am not in favor of automated things sending stuff to the
>>>> dev
>>>>>>> list.  I like the dev just being discussion among humans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Dylan Hutchison<
>>>>>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On the other hand, sending failed build notifications to the dev
>> list
>>>>>>>> motivates us to not break the tests and make the tests stable.  I'll
>>>>>>> leave
>>>>>>>> it to your decision Chris, unless others have an opinion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:02 PM Dylan Hutchison<
>>>>>>>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so after some investigation (
>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12252), it appears
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> notifications@ is simply configured to block email from non
>>>>>> apache
>>>>>>>>>>> addresses.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So, I have three possible solutions, if the Accumulo devs wish to
>>>>>>>>> receive
>>>>>>>>>>> build notifications from my instance of Jenkins:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 1. I use my personal ASF creds on Jenkins to send build
>>>>>>> notifications
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>>>>>> 2. The Accumulo project request the configuration of
>>>>>> notifications@
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> changed to allow non-apache addresses.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> #2 sounds ideal to me, if possible.  Sending build emails to dev
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> drive some people to un-subscribe.  On the other hand, people that
>>>>>>> sign
>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>> for notifications@ are asking for it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My reason for being reluctant to pick #2 as my preference was that
>> I
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>> know what additional burden that might place on the moderators.
>> Plus,
>>>>>>>> INFRA
>>>>>>>>> (or, at least Gavin, on that ticket and in HipChat when I thanked
>> him
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> clarifying) seemed pretty satisfied with the existing conventions
>> of
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>> @
>>>>>>>>> apache.org only. I'd prefer to conform to Foundation-wide
>>>>>> conventions
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>> it comes to infra stuffs, whenever possible. I know how much work
>> it
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> INFRA to constantly ask them for special requests which diverge
>> from
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> norm, especially when they are managing so much already.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Breaking conventions within our community like #3 posed would be
>>>>>>>> preferable
>>>>>>>>> to me, rather than breaking Foundation-wide infra conventions. But,
>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>> right that it could annoy subscribers. If I remember correctly,
>>>>>> Commons
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> one community which does this, sending build notifications to their
>>>>>> dev
>>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Another option is a new email list.  It doesn't even have to be
>>>>>>>>>> ASF-affiliated.  It could be some list you personally create that
>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>> Accumulo devs personally decide to sign up for.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's possible. I could set up a list specifically associated with
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> Jenkins server. It already has an RSS feed, which might be better,
>>>>>>>> though,
>>>>>>>>> if people want to subscribe to builds that way. The main purpose of
>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>> setting it up was to provide direct feedback to this community,
>>>>>> though,
>>>>>>>>> rather than force folks to go seek out that feedback. If the RSS
>> feed
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> sufficient for people, then that would save me some trouble,
>>>>>> though...
>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>> certainly the easiest thing to do (nothing).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Plus, it is also putting notifications in IRC. So maybe, RSS+IRC is
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> than enough.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 3. I configure Jenkins to post to the dev list (if possible).
>>>>>>>>>>> My preference in order is #3, then #2, then #1 last.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Jenkins notifications to dev list?

[Christopher <ct...@apache.org>]

Given its "non-official" status (with respect to its affiliation with the
Foundation and PMC), I'd prefer not to formally list it on the website.
That might imply some long-term persistence and/or guarantees about
availability to the community, and I cannot offer such guarantees.

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:57 PM Josh Elser <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Bueno. Makes sense to me and avoids future issues with that lengthy
> disclaimer you sent previously :)
>
> Maybe have something on the website for contributors/new-devs to find
> out about too?
>
> Christopher wrote:
> > Well, it's already self-service, for those I've added. For anybody else,
> I
> > can add you if you send me your GitHub username. Then, you'll just have
> to
> > accept my invitation to the revelc organization on GitHub, and you'll be
> > able to log in and add yourself to the post-build notifications.
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:48 PM Josh Elser<jo...@gmail.com>  wrote:
> >
> >> Yeah, that's a decent intermediate step. Getting an email is pretty much
> >> the only thing that's going to force me to pay attention.
> >>
> >> Making it self-service would be an even bigger plus, but I'm OK waiting
> >> for "Christopher response time" :)
> >>
> >> Michael Wall wrote:
> >>> I am good with that option Christopher.
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>>> The other option is that if people really want to subscribe to
> >>>> notifications, I can just add their email to the post-build
> notification
> >>>> email list directly. Since I'm willing to grant access to Accumulo
> >>>> developers already, they can also just add themselves by editing the
> >>>> existing jobs.
> >>>>
> >>>> RIght now, I'm thinking: add yourself (or I can add you) to the
> >> post-build
> >>>> notification, or use the RSS, is the best option. No dev@ list, no
> >>>> notifications@ list. It's just too much trouble.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:28 PM Keith Turner<ke...@deenlo.com>
>  wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Personally I am not in favor of automated things sending stuff to the
> >> dev
> >>>>> list.  I like the dev just being discussion among humans.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Dylan Hutchison<
> >>>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> On the other hand, sending failed build notifications to the dev
> list
> >>>>>> motivates us to not break the tests and make the tests stable.  I'll
> >>>>> leave
> >>>>>> it to your decision Chris, unless others have an opinion.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:02 PM Dylan Hutchison<
> >>>>>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Okay, so after some investigation (
> >>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12252), it appears
> >>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>> notifications@ is simply configured to block email from non
> >>>> apache
> >>>>>>>>> addresses.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> So, I have three possible solutions, if the Accumulo devs wish to
> >>>>>>> receive
> >>>>>>>>> build notifications from my instance of Jenkins:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> 1. I use my personal ASF creds on Jenkins to send build
> >>>>> notifications
> >>>>>>> as
> >>>>>>>>> myself.
> >>>>>>>>> 2. The Accumulo project request the configuration of
> >>>> notifications@
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>> changed to allow non-apache addresses.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> #2 sounds ideal to me, if possible.  Sending build emails to dev
> >>>>> would
> >>>>>>>> drive some people to un-subscribe.  On the other hand, people that
> >>>>> sign
> >>>>>>> up
> >>>>>>>> for notifications@ are asking for it.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My reason for being reluctant to pick #2 as my preference was that
> I
> >>>>>> don't
> >>>>>>> know what additional burden that might place on the moderators.
> Plus,
> >>>>>> INFRA
> >>>>>>> (or, at least Gavin, on that ticket and in HipChat when I thanked
> him
> >>>>> for
> >>>>>>> clarifying) seemed pretty satisfied with the existing conventions
> of
> >>>>>> being
> >>>>>>> @
> >>>>>>> apache.org only. I'd prefer to conform to Foundation-wide
> >>>> conventions
> >>>>>> when
> >>>>>>> it comes to infra stuffs, whenever possible. I know how much work
> it
> >>>> is
> >>>>>> on
> >>>>>>> INFRA to constantly ask them for special requests which diverge
> from
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>> norm, especially when they are managing so much already.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Breaking conventions within our community like #3 posed would be
> >>>>>> preferable
> >>>>>>> to me, rather than breaking Foundation-wide infra conventions. But,
> >>>>>> you're
> >>>>>>> right that it could annoy subscribers. If I remember correctly,
> >>>> Commons
> >>>>>> is
> >>>>>>> one community which does this, sending build notifications to their
> >>>> dev
> >>>>>>> list.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Another option is a new email list.  It doesn't even have to be
> >>>>>>>> ASF-affiliated.  It could be some list you personally create that
> >>>>> many
> >>>>>>>> Accumulo devs personally decide to sign up for.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> That's possible. I could set up a list specifically associated with
> >>>>> that
> >>>>>>> Jenkins server. It already has an RSS feed, which might be better,
> >>>>>> though,
> >>>>>>> if people want to subscribe to builds that way. The main purpose of
> >>>> me
> >>>>>>> setting it up was to provide direct feedback to this community,
> >>>> though,
> >>>>>>> rather than force folks to go seek out that feedback. If the RSS
> feed
> >>>>> is
> >>>>>>> sufficient for people, then that would save me some trouble,
> >>>> though...
> >>>>>> it's
> >>>>>>> certainly the easiest thing to do (nothing).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Plus, it is also putting notifications in IRC. So maybe, RSS+IRC is
> >>>>> more
> >>>>>>> than enough.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 3. I configure Jenkins to post to the dev list (if possible).
> >>>>>>>>> My preference in order is #3, then #2, then #1 last.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Jenkins notifications to dev list?

[Josh Elser <jo...@gmail.com>]

Bueno. Makes sense to me and avoids future issues with that lengthy 
disclaimer you sent previously :)

Maybe have something on the website for contributors/new-devs to find 
out about too?

Christopher wrote:
> Well, it's already self-service, for those I've added. For anybody else, I
> can add you if you send me your GitHub username. Then, you'll just have to
> accept my invitation to the revelc organization on GitHub, and you'll be
> able to log in and add yourself to the post-build notifications.
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:48 PM Josh Elser<jo...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> Yeah, that's a decent intermediate step. Getting an email is pretty much
>> the only thing that's going to force me to pay attention.
>>
>> Making it self-service would be an even bigger plus, but I'm OK waiting
>> for "Christopher response time" :)
>>
>> Michael Wall wrote:
>>> I am good with that option Christopher.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>>> The other option is that if people really want to subscribe to
>>>> notifications, I can just add their email to the post-build notification
>>>> email list directly. Since I'm willing to grant access to Accumulo
>>>> developers already, they can also just add themselves by editing the
>>>> existing jobs.
>>>>
>>>> RIght now, I'm thinking: add yourself (or I can add you) to the
>> post-build
>>>> notification, or use the RSS, is the best option. No dev@ list, no
>>>> notifications@ list. It's just too much trouble.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:28 PM Keith Turner<ke...@deenlo.com>   wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Personally I am not in favor of automated things sending stuff to the
>> dev
>>>>> list.  I like the dev just being discussion among humans.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Dylan Hutchison<
>>>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On the other hand, sending failed build notifications to the dev list
>>>>>> motivates us to not break the tests and make the tests stable.  I'll
>>>>> leave
>>>>>> it to your decision Chris, unless others have an opinion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:02 PM Dylan Hutchison<
>>>>>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Okay, so after some investigation (
>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12252), it appears
>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> notifications@ is simply configured to block email from non
>>>> apache
>>>>>>>>> addresses.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, I have three possible solutions, if the Accumulo devs wish to
>>>>>>> receive
>>>>>>>>> build notifications from my instance of Jenkins:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. I use my personal ASF creds on Jenkins to send build
>>>>> notifications
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>>>> 2. The Accumulo project request the configuration of
>>>> notifications@
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> changed to allow non-apache addresses.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> #2 sounds ideal to me, if possible.  Sending build emails to dev
>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> drive some people to un-subscribe.  On the other hand, people that
>>>>> sign
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>> for notifications@ are asking for it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My reason for being reluctant to pick #2 as my preference was that I
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> know what additional burden that might place on the moderators. Plus,
>>>>>> INFRA
>>>>>>> (or, at least Gavin, on that ticket and in HipChat when I thanked him
>>>>> for
>>>>>>> clarifying) seemed pretty satisfied with the existing conventions of
>>>>>> being
>>>>>>> @
>>>>>>> apache.org only. I'd prefer to conform to Foundation-wide
>>>> conventions
>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> it comes to infra stuffs, whenever possible. I know how much work it
>>>> is
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> INFRA to constantly ask them for special requests which diverge from
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> norm, especially when they are managing so much already.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Breaking conventions within our community like #3 posed would be
>>>>>> preferable
>>>>>>> to me, rather than breaking Foundation-wide infra conventions. But,
>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>> right that it could annoy subscribers. If I remember correctly,
>>>> Commons
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> one community which does this, sending build notifications to their
>>>> dev
>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Another option is a new email list.  It doesn't even have to be
>>>>>>>> ASF-affiliated.  It could be some list you personally create that
>>>>> many
>>>>>>>> Accumulo devs personally decide to sign up for.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's possible. I could set up a list specifically associated with
>>>>> that
>>>>>>> Jenkins server. It already has an RSS feed, which might be better,
>>>>>> though,
>>>>>>> if people want to subscribe to builds that way. The main purpose of
>>>> me
>>>>>>> setting it up was to provide direct feedback to this community,
>>>> though,
>>>>>>> rather than force folks to go seek out that feedback. If the RSS feed
>>>>> is
>>>>>>> sufficient for people, then that would save me some trouble,
>>>> though...
>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>> certainly the easiest thing to do (nothing).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Plus, it is also putting notifications in IRC. So maybe, RSS+IRC is
>>>>> more
>>>>>>> than enough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3. I configure Jenkins to post to the dev list (if possible).
>>>>>>>>> My preference in order is #3, then #2, then #1 last.
>>>>>>>>>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Jenkins notifications to dev list?

[Christopher <ct...@apache.org>]

Well, it's already self-service, for those I've added. For anybody else, I
can add you if you send me your GitHub username. Then, you'll just have to
accept my invitation to the revelc organization on GitHub, and you'll be
able to log in and add yourself to the post-build notifications.

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:48 PM Josh Elser <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yeah, that's a decent intermediate step. Getting an email is pretty much
> the only thing that's going to force me to pay attention.
>
> Making it self-service would be an even bigger plus, but I'm OK waiting
> for "Christopher response time" :)
>
> Michael Wall wrote:
> > I am good with that option Christopher.
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> The other option is that if people really want to subscribe to
> >> notifications, I can just add their email to the post-build notification
> >> email list directly. Since I'm willing to grant access to Accumulo
> >> developers already, they can also just add themselves by editing the
> >> existing jobs.
> >>
> >> RIght now, I'm thinking: add yourself (or I can add you) to the
> post-build
> >> notification, or use the RSS, is the best option. No dev@ list, no
> >> notifications@ list. It's just too much trouble.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:28 PM Keith Turner<ke...@deenlo.com>  wrote:
> >>
> >>> Personally I am not in favor of automated things sending stuff to the
> dev
> >>> list.  I like the dev just being discussion among humans.
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Dylan Hutchison<
> >>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> On the other hand, sending failed build notifications to the dev list
> >>>> motivates us to not break the tests and make the tests stable.  I'll
> >>> leave
> >>>> it to your decision Chris, unless others have an opinion.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:02 PM Dylan Hutchison<
> >>>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Okay, so after some investigation (
> >>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12252), it appears
> >>> that
> >>>>>>> notifications@ is simply configured to block email from non
> >> apache
> >>>>>>> addresses.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So, I have three possible solutions, if the Accumulo devs wish to
> >>>>> receive
> >>>>>>> build notifications from my instance of Jenkins:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 1. I use my personal ASF creds on Jenkins to send build
> >>> notifications
> >>>>> as
> >>>>>>> myself.
> >>>>>>> 2. The Accumulo project request the configuration of
> >> notifications@
> >>>> to
> >>>>>> be
> >>>>>>> changed to allow non-apache addresses.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> #2 sounds ideal to me, if possible.  Sending build emails to dev
> >>> would
> >>>>>> drive some people to un-subscribe.  On the other hand, people that
> >>> sign
> >>>>> up
> >>>>>> for notifications@ are asking for it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> My reason for being reluctant to pick #2 as my preference was that I
> >>>> don't
> >>>>> know what additional burden that might place on the moderators. Plus,
> >>>> INFRA
> >>>>> (or, at least Gavin, on that ticket and in HipChat when I thanked him
> >>> for
> >>>>> clarifying) seemed pretty satisfied with the existing conventions of
> >>>> being
> >>>>> @
> >>>>> apache.org only. I'd prefer to conform to Foundation-wide
> >> conventions
> >>>> when
> >>>>> it comes to infra stuffs, whenever possible. I know how much work it
> >> is
> >>>> on
> >>>>> INFRA to constantly ask them for special requests which diverge from
> >>> the
> >>>>> norm, especially when they are managing so much already.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Breaking conventions within our community like #3 posed would be
> >>>> preferable
> >>>>> to me, rather than breaking Foundation-wide infra conventions. But,
> >>>> you're
> >>>>> right that it could annoy subscribers. If I remember correctly,
> >> Commons
> >>>> is
> >>>>> one community which does this, sending build notifications to their
> >> dev
> >>>>> list.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Another option is a new email list.  It doesn't even have to be
> >>>>>> ASF-affiliated.  It could be some list you personally create that
> >>> many
> >>>>>> Accumulo devs personally decide to sign up for.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> That's possible. I could set up a list specifically associated with
> >>> that
> >>>>> Jenkins server. It already has an RSS feed, which might be better,
> >>>> though,
> >>>>> if people want to subscribe to builds that way. The main purpose of
> >> me
> >>>>> setting it up was to provide direct feedback to this community,
> >> though,
> >>>>> rather than force folks to go seek out that feedback. If the RSS feed
> >>> is
> >>>>> sufficient for people, then that would save me some trouble,
> >> though...
> >>>> it's
> >>>>> certainly the easiest thing to do (nothing).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Plus, it is also putting notifications in IRC. So maybe, RSS+IRC is
> >>> more
> >>>>> than enough.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> 3. I configure Jenkins to post to the dev list (if possible).
> >>>>>>> My preference in order is #3, then #2, then #1 last.
> >>>>>>>
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Jenkins notifications to dev list?

[Josh Elser <jo...@gmail.com>]

Yeah, that's a decent intermediate step. Getting an email is pretty much 
the only thing that's going to force me to pay attention.

Making it self-service would be an even bigger plus, but I'm OK waiting 
for "Christopher response time" :)

Michael Wall wrote:
> I am good with that option Christopher.
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>  wrote:
>
>> The other option is that if people really want to subscribe to
>> notifications, I can just add their email to the post-build notification
>> email list directly. Since I'm willing to grant access to Accumulo
>> developers already, they can also just add themselves by editing the
>> existing jobs.
>>
>> RIght now, I'm thinking: add yourself (or I can add you) to the post-build
>> notification, or use the RSS, is the best option. No dev@ list, no
>> notifications@ list. It's just too much trouble.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:28 PM Keith Turner<ke...@deenlo.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Personally I am not in favor of automated things sending stuff to the dev
>>> list.  I like the dev just being discussion among humans.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Dylan Hutchison<
>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu
>>>> wrote:
>>>> On the other hand, sending failed build notifications to the dev list
>>>> motivates us to not break the tests and make the tests stable.  I'll
>>> leave
>>>> it to your decision Chris, unless others have an opinion.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:02 PM Dylan Hutchison<
>>>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Christopher<ct...@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Okay, so after some investigation (
>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12252), it appears
>>> that
>>>>>>> notifications@ is simply configured to block email from non
>> apache
>>>>>>> addresses.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, I have three possible solutions, if the Accumulo devs wish to
>>>>> receive
>>>>>>> build notifications from my instance of Jenkins:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. I use my personal ASF creds on Jenkins to send build
>>> notifications
>>>>> as
>>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>> 2. The Accumulo project request the configuration of
>> notifications@
>>>> to
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> changed to allow non-apache addresses.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> #2 sounds ideal to me, if possible.  Sending build emails to dev
>>> would
>>>>>> drive some people to un-subscribe.  On the other hand, people that
>>> sign
>>>>> up
>>>>>> for notifications@ are asking for it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> My reason for being reluctant to pick #2 as my preference was that I
>>>> don't
>>>>> know what additional burden that might place on the moderators. Plus,
>>>> INFRA
>>>>> (or, at least Gavin, on that ticket and in HipChat when I thanked him
>>> for
>>>>> clarifying) seemed pretty satisfied with the existing conventions of
>>>> being
>>>>> @
>>>>> apache.org only. I'd prefer to conform to Foundation-wide
>> conventions
>>>> when
>>>>> it comes to infra stuffs, whenever possible. I know how much work it
>> is
>>>> on
>>>>> INFRA to constantly ask them for special requests which diverge from
>>> the
>>>>> norm, especially when they are managing so much already.
>>>>>
>>>>> Breaking conventions within our community like #3 posed would be
>>>> preferable
>>>>> to me, rather than breaking Foundation-wide infra conventions. But,
>>>> you're
>>>>> right that it could annoy subscribers. If I remember correctly,
>> Commons
>>>> is
>>>>> one community which does this, sending build notifications to their
>> dev
>>>>> list.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Another option is a new email list.  It doesn't even have to be
>>>>>> ASF-affiliated.  It could be some list you personally create that
>>> many
>>>>>> Accumulo devs personally decide to sign up for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> That's possible. I could set up a list specifically associated with
>>> that
>>>>> Jenkins server. It already has an RSS feed, which might be better,
>>>> though,
>>>>> if people want to subscribe to builds that way. The main purpose of
>> me
>>>>> setting it up was to provide direct feedback to this community,
>> though,
>>>>> rather than force folks to go seek out that feedback. If the RSS feed
>>> is
>>>>> sufficient for people, then that would save me some trouble,
>> though...
>>>> it's
>>>>> certainly the easiest thing to do (nothing).
>>>>>
>>>>> Plus, it is also putting notifications in IRC. So maybe, RSS+IRC is
>>> more
>>>>> than enough.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. I configure Jenkins to post to the dev list (if possible).
>>>>>>> My preference in order is #3, then #2, then #1 last.
>>>>>>>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Jenkins notifications to dev list?

[Michael Wall <mj...@gmail.com>]

I am good with that option Christopher.

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:

> The other option is that if people really want to subscribe to
> notifications, I can just add their email to the post-build notification
> email list directly. Since I'm willing to grant access to Accumulo
> developers already, they can also just add themselves by editing the
> existing jobs.
>
> RIght now, I'm thinking: add yourself (or I can add you) to the post-build
> notification, or use the RSS, is the best option. No dev@ list, no
> notifications@ list. It's just too much trouble.
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:28 PM Keith Turner <ke...@deenlo.com> wrote:
>
> > Personally I am not in favor of automated things sending stuff to the dev
> > list.  I like the dev just being discussion among humans.
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Dylan Hutchison <
> > dhutchis@cs.washington.edu
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > On the other hand, sending failed build notifications to the dev list
> > > motivates us to not break the tests and make the tests stable.  I'll
> > leave
> > > it to your decision Chris, unless others have an opinion.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Christopher <ct...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:02 PM Dylan Hutchison <
> > > > dhutchis@cs.washington.edu>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Christopher <ct...@apache.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Okay, so after some investigation (
> > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12252), it appears
> > that
> > > > > > notifications@ is simply configured to block email from non
> apache
> > > > > > addresses.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, I have three possible solutions, if the Accumulo devs wish to
> > > > receive
> > > > > > build notifications from my instance of Jenkins:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. I use my personal ASF creds on Jenkins to send build
> > notifications
> > > > as
> > > > > > myself.
> > > > > > 2. The Accumulo project request the configuration of
> notifications@
> > > to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > changed to allow non-apache addresses.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > #2 sounds ideal to me, if possible.  Sending build emails to dev
> > would
> > > > > drive some people to un-subscribe.  On the other hand, people that
> > sign
> > > > up
> > > > > for notifications@ are asking for it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > My reason for being reluctant to pick #2 as my preference was that I
> > > don't
> > > > know what additional burden that might place on the moderators. Plus,
> > > INFRA
> > > > (or, at least Gavin, on that ticket and in HipChat when I thanked him
> > for
> > > > clarifying) seemed pretty satisfied with the existing conventions of
> > > being
> > > > @
> > > > apache.org only. I'd prefer to conform to Foundation-wide
> conventions
> > > when
> > > > it comes to infra stuffs, whenever possible. I know how much work it
> is
> > > on
> > > > INFRA to constantly ask them for special requests which diverge from
> > the
> > > > norm, especially when they are managing so much already.
> > > >
> > > > Breaking conventions within our community like #3 posed would be
> > > preferable
> > > > to me, rather than breaking Foundation-wide infra conventions. But,
> > > you're
> > > > right that it could annoy subscribers. If I remember correctly,
> Commons
> > > is
> > > > one community which does this, sending build notifications to their
> dev
> > > > list.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Another option is a new email list.  It doesn't even have to be
> > > > > ASF-affiliated.  It could be some list you personally create that
> > many
> > > > > Accumulo devs personally decide to sign up for.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > That's possible. I could set up a list specifically associated with
> > that
> > > > Jenkins server. It already has an RSS feed, which might be better,
> > > though,
> > > > if people want to subscribe to builds that way. The main purpose of
> me
> > > > setting it up was to provide direct feedback to this community,
> though,
> > > > rather than force folks to go seek out that feedback. If the RSS feed
> > is
> > > > sufficient for people, then that would save me some trouble,
> though...
> > > it's
> > > > certainly the easiest thing to do (nothing).
> > > >
> > > > Plus, it is also putting notifications in IRC. So maybe, RSS+IRC is
> > more
> > > > than enough.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 3. I configure Jenkins to post to the dev list (if possible).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My preference in order is #3, then #2, then #1 last.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Jenkins notifications to dev list?

[Christopher <ct...@apache.org>]

The other option is that if people really want to subscribe to
notifications, I can just add their email to the post-build notification
email list directly. Since I'm willing to grant access to Accumulo
developers already, they can also just add themselves by editing the
existing jobs.

RIght now, I'm thinking: add yourself (or I can add you) to the post-build
notification, or use the RSS, is the best option. No dev@ list, no
notifications@ list. It's just too much trouble.

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:28 PM Keith Turner <ke...@deenlo.com> wrote:

> Personally I am not in favor of automated things sending stuff to the dev
> list.  I like the dev just being discussion among humans.
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Dylan Hutchison <
> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu
> > wrote:
>
> > On the other hand, sending failed build notifications to the dev list
> > motivates us to not break the tests and make the tests stable.  I'll
> leave
> > it to your decision Chris, unless others have an opinion.
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Christopher <ct...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:02 PM Dylan Hutchison <
> > > dhutchis@cs.washington.edu>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Christopher <ct...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Okay, so after some investigation (
> > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12252), it appears
> that
> > > > > notifications@ is simply configured to block email from non apache
> > > > > addresses.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, I have three possible solutions, if the Accumulo devs wish to
> > > receive
> > > > > build notifications from my instance of Jenkins:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. I use my personal ASF creds on Jenkins to send build
> notifications
> > > as
> > > > > myself.
> > > > > 2. The Accumulo project request the configuration of notifications@
> > to
> > > > be
> > > > > changed to allow non-apache addresses.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > #2 sounds ideal to me, if possible.  Sending build emails to dev
> would
> > > > drive some people to un-subscribe.  On the other hand, people that
> sign
> > > up
> > > > for notifications@ are asking for it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > My reason for being reluctant to pick #2 as my preference was that I
> > don't
> > > know what additional burden that might place on the moderators. Plus,
> > INFRA
> > > (or, at least Gavin, on that ticket and in HipChat when I thanked him
> for
> > > clarifying) seemed pretty satisfied with the existing conventions of
> > being
> > > @
> > > apache.org only. I'd prefer to conform to Foundation-wide conventions
> > when
> > > it comes to infra stuffs, whenever possible. I know how much work it is
> > on
> > > INFRA to constantly ask them for special requests which diverge from
> the
> > > norm, especially when they are managing so much already.
> > >
> > > Breaking conventions within our community like #3 posed would be
> > preferable
> > > to me, rather than breaking Foundation-wide infra conventions. But,
> > you're
> > > right that it could annoy subscribers. If I remember correctly, Commons
> > is
> > > one community which does this, sending build notifications to their dev
> > > list.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Another option is a new email list.  It doesn't even have to be
> > > > ASF-affiliated.  It could be some list you personally create that
> many
> > > > Accumulo devs personally decide to sign up for.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > That's possible. I could set up a list specifically associated with
> that
> > > Jenkins server. It already has an RSS feed, which might be better,
> > though,
> > > if people want to subscribe to builds that way. The main purpose of me
> > > setting it up was to provide direct feedback to this community, though,
> > > rather than force folks to go seek out that feedback. If the RSS feed
> is
> > > sufficient for people, then that would save me some trouble, though...
> > it's
> > > certainly the easiest thing to do (nothing).
> > >
> > > Plus, it is also putting notifications in IRC. So maybe, RSS+IRC is
> more
> > > than enough.
> > >
> > >
> > > > 3. I configure Jenkins to post to the dev list (if possible).
> > > > >
> > > > > My preference in order is #3, then #2, then #1 last.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Jenkins notifications to dev list?

[Keith Turner <ke...@deenlo.com>]

Personally I am not in favor of automated things sending stuff to the dev
list.  I like the dev just being discussion among humans.

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Dylan Hutchison <dhutchis@cs.washington.edu
> wrote:

> On the other hand, sending failed build notifications to the dev list
> motivates us to not break the tests and make the tests stable.  I'll leave
> it to your decision Chris, unless others have an opinion.
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:02 PM Dylan Hutchison <
> > dhutchis@cs.washington.edu>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Christopher <ct...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Okay, so after some investigation (
> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12252), it appears that
> > > > notifications@ is simply configured to block email from non apache
> > > > addresses.
> > > >
> > > > So, I have three possible solutions, if the Accumulo devs wish to
> > receive
> > > > build notifications from my instance of Jenkins:
> > > >
> > > > 1. I use my personal ASF creds on Jenkins to send build notifications
> > as
> > > > myself.
> > > > 2. The Accumulo project request the configuration of notifications@
> to
> > > be
> > > > changed to allow non-apache addresses.
> > > >
> > >
> > > #2 sounds ideal to me, if possible.  Sending build emails to dev would
> > > drive some people to un-subscribe.  On the other hand, people that sign
> > up
> > > for notifications@ are asking for it.
> > >
> > >
> > My reason for being reluctant to pick #2 as my preference was that I
> don't
> > know what additional burden that might place on the moderators. Plus,
> INFRA
> > (or, at least Gavin, on that ticket and in HipChat when I thanked him for
> > clarifying) seemed pretty satisfied with the existing conventions of
> being
> > @
> > apache.org only. I'd prefer to conform to Foundation-wide conventions
> when
> > it comes to infra stuffs, whenever possible. I know how much work it is
> on
> > INFRA to constantly ask them for special requests which diverge from the
> > norm, especially when they are managing so much already.
> >
> > Breaking conventions within our community like #3 posed would be
> preferable
> > to me, rather than breaking Foundation-wide infra conventions. But,
> you're
> > right that it could annoy subscribers. If I remember correctly, Commons
> is
> > one community which does this, sending build notifications to their dev
> > list.
> >
> >
> > > Another option is a new email list.  It doesn't even have to be
> > > ASF-affiliated.  It could be some list you personally create that many
> > > Accumulo devs personally decide to sign up for.
> > >
> > >
> > That's possible. I could set up a list specifically associated with that
> > Jenkins server. It already has an RSS feed, which might be better,
> though,
> > if people want to subscribe to builds that way. The main purpose of me
> > setting it up was to provide direct feedback to this community, though,
> > rather than force folks to go seek out that feedback. If the RSS feed is
> > sufficient for people, then that would save me some trouble, though...
> it's
> > certainly the easiest thing to do (nothing).
> >
> > Plus, it is also putting notifications in IRC. So maybe, RSS+IRC is more
> > than enough.
> >
> >
> > > 3. I configure Jenkins to post to the dev list (if possible).
> > > >
> > > > My preference in order is #3, then #2, then #1 last.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Jenkins notifications to dev list?

[Dylan Hutchison <dh...@cs.washington.edu>]

On the other hand, sending failed build notifications to the dev list
motivates us to not break the tests and make the tests stable.  I'll leave
it to your decision Chris, unless others have an opinion.

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:02 PM Dylan Hutchison <
> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Christopher <ct...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Okay, so after some investigation (
> > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12252), it appears that
> > > notifications@ is simply configured to block email from non apache
> > > addresses.
> > >
> > > So, I have three possible solutions, if the Accumulo devs wish to
> receive
> > > build notifications from my instance of Jenkins:
> > >
> > > 1. I use my personal ASF creds on Jenkins to send build notifications
> as
> > > myself.
> > > 2. The Accumulo project request the configuration of notifications@ to
> > be
> > > changed to allow non-apache addresses.
> > >
> >
> > #2 sounds ideal to me, if possible.  Sending build emails to dev would
> > drive some people to un-subscribe.  On the other hand, people that sign
> up
> > for notifications@ are asking for it.
> >
> >
> My reason for being reluctant to pick #2 as my preference was that I don't
> know what additional burden that might place on the moderators. Plus, INFRA
> (or, at least Gavin, on that ticket and in HipChat when I thanked him for
> clarifying) seemed pretty satisfied with the existing conventions of being
> @
> apache.org only. I'd prefer to conform to Foundation-wide conventions when
> it comes to infra stuffs, whenever possible. I know how much work it is on
> INFRA to constantly ask them for special requests which diverge from the
> norm, especially when they are managing so much already.
>
> Breaking conventions within our community like #3 posed would be preferable
> to me, rather than breaking Foundation-wide infra conventions. But, you're
> right that it could annoy subscribers. If I remember correctly, Commons is
> one community which does this, sending build notifications to their dev
> list.
>
>
> > Another option is a new email list.  It doesn't even have to be
> > ASF-affiliated.  It could be some list you personally create that many
> > Accumulo devs personally decide to sign up for.
> >
> >
> That's possible. I could set up a list specifically associated with that
> Jenkins server. It already has an RSS feed, which might be better, though,
> if people want to subscribe to builds that way. The main purpose of me
> setting it up was to provide direct feedback to this community, though,
> rather than force folks to go seek out that feedback. If the RSS feed is
> sufficient for people, then that would save me some trouble, though... it's
> certainly the easiest thing to do (nothing).
>
> Plus, it is also putting notifications in IRC. So maybe, RSS+IRC is more
> than enough.
>
>
> > 3. I configure Jenkins to post to the dev list (if possible).
> > >
> > > My preference in order is #3, then #2, then #1 last.
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Jenkins notifications to dev list?

[Christopher <ct...@apache.org>]

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:02 PM Dylan Hutchison <dh...@cs.washington.edu>
wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Okay, so after some investigation (
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12252), it appears that
> > notifications@ is simply configured to block email from non apache
> > addresses.
> >
> > So, I have three possible solutions, if the Accumulo devs wish to receive
> > build notifications from my instance of Jenkins:
> >
> > 1. I use my personal ASF creds on Jenkins to send build notifications as
> > myself.
> > 2. The Accumulo project request the configuration of notifications@ to
> be
> > changed to allow non-apache addresses.
> >
>
> #2 sounds ideal to me, if possible.  Sending build emails to dev would
> drive some people to un-subscribe.  On the other hand, people that sign up
> for notifications@ are asking for it.
>
>
My reason for being reluctant to pick #2 as my preference was that I don't
know what additional burden that might place on the moderators. Plus, INFRA
(or, at least Gavin, on that ticket and in HipChat when I thanked him for
clarifying) seemed pretty satisfied with the existing conventions of being @
apache.org only. I'd prefer to conform to Foundation-wide conventions when
it comes to infra stuffs, whenever possible. I know how much work it is on
INFRA to constantly ask them for special requests which diverge from the
norm, especially when they are managing so much already.

Breaking conventions within our community like #3 posed would be preferable
to me, rather than breaking Foundation-wide infra conventions. But, you're
right that it could annoy subscribers. If I remember correctly, Commons is
one community which does this, sending build notifications to their dev
list.


> Another option is a new email list.  It doesn't even have to be
> ASF-affiliated.  It could be some list you personally create that many
> Accumulo devs personally decide to sign up for.
>
>
That's possible. I could set up a list specifically associated with that
Jenkins server. It already has an RSS feed, which might be better, though,
if people want to subscribe to builds that way. The main purpose of me
setting it up was to provide direct feedback to this community, though,
rather than force folks to go seek out that feedback. If the RSS feed is
sufficient for people, then that would save me some trouble, though... it's
certainly the easiest thing to do (nothing).

Plus, it is also putting notifications in IRC. So maybe, RSS+IRC is more
than enough.


> 3. I configure Jenkins to post to the dev list (if possible).
> >
> > My preference in order is #3, then #2, then #1 last.
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Jenkins notifications to dev list?

[Dylan Hutchison <dh...@cs.washington.edu>]

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:

> Okay, so after some investigation (
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12252), it appears that
> notifications@ is simply configured to block email from non apache
> addresses.
>
> So, I have three possible solutions, if the Accumulo devs wish to receive
> build notifications from my instance of Jenkins:
>
> 1. I use my personal ASF creds on Jenkins to send build notifications as
> myself.
> 2. The Accumulo project request the configuration of notifications@ to be
> changed to allow non-apache addresses.
>

#2 sounds ideal to me, if possible.  Sending build emails to dev would
drive some people to un-subscribe.  On the other hand, people that sign up
for notifications@ are asking for it.

Another option is a new email list.  It doesn't even have to be
ASF-affiliated.  It could be some list you personally create that many
Accumulo devs personally decide to sign up for.

3. I configure Jenkins to post to the dev list (if possible).
>
> My preference in order is #3, then #2, then #1 last.
>