Proposed board report

[Ivan Kelly <iv...@apache.org>]

I thought I sent this last week, but it seems not. We need to submit a
report every month until February. After that it's every 3 months.

Comments? I want to sent this tonight, since it's due tomorrow.

<snip>
Bookkeeper is a distributed, reliable, and high performance
logging service. The project also includes Hedwig which is
a highly scalable Pub/Sub service built on top of ZooKeeper
and Bookkeeper with strong durability guarantees.

= Project Status =
Since becoming TLP (2014-11-19), focus has been on getting our
new infrastructure set up. There were some delays in getting the
mailing list up and running, but it's all resolved now. Subsequently,
everything that depended on the mailing lists was delayed. We are
current voting on a set of bylaws.

Development work has been low over the last month, but a lot of work
has been done to improve the documentation and accessibility of the
project (new website, new client tutorial, etc).

= Releases =
Our last release was 4.3.0, released on 2014-10-14. We are
currently in the process of voting for a release plan for 4.3.1 and
4.2.4.

= Community Status =
There have been no committers added since we became TLP (2014-11-19).
The last committer added, when we were a subproject, was Rakesh
Radhakrishnan on 24th July 2014.

50 subscribers in dev@bookkeeper.apache.org
66 subscribers in user@bookkeeper.apache.org

811 issues opened to date, 34 since 2014-10-01
556 issues resolved to date, 14 since 2014-10-01
50 people have reported issues, 9 since 2014-10-01
24 people have contributed patches, 6 since 2014-10-01
</snip>

Re: Proposed board report

[Rakesh Radhakrishnan <ra...@gmail.com>]

+1 from me

On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 11:41 PM, Sijie Guo <gu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> +1
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 9:58 AM, Ivan Kelly <iv...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Since there have been no concrete amendments proposed, I'm going to
> submit
> > as is. It can always be updated later, but they wanted the report by
> today.
> >
> > -Ivan
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Flavio Junqueira <
> > fpjunqueira@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > I appreciate that good and coherent documentation is important.
> > > Documentation in open-source projects tend to be continuously evolving,
> > so
> > > if you're going to wait for that to be done before you do anything
> else,
> > > then we are going be like this for a long time. What I have stated
> needs
> > to
> > > happen in parallel with the documentation evolving or at least
> > > presentations and blog posts. That's what many other successful
> projects
> > > have done and do, so I'm not sure why you think we'll do well by not
> > doing
> > > it.
> > >
> > > People also tend to get inspired by use cases even if they don't fully
> > > understand the mechanics of the underlying system. They will correlate
> a
> > > use case with their reality, possibly get curious and go learn more.
> From
> > > what I've seen, a lot of people end up getting involved in projects
> after
> > > they see a discussion about a similar use case that has been used
> > > successfully. Good documentation definitely helps once we have
> attracted
> > > the attention of a developer.
> > >
> > > I'm fine with not having frequently releases if we don't have a good
> flow
> > > of contributions, but once we start having more contributions, it is
> > > important that users see their contributions in releases.
> > >
> > > Finally, it is good if the report includes more than just the immediate
> > > stuff we need to do. Including a long term plan for developing the
> > > community would be a nice addition and I've already stated what I
> believe
> > > is important.
> > >
> > > -Flavio
> > >
> > >
> > > > On 09 Dec 2014, at 17:59, Ivan Kelly <iv...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I think, before any of that, we need coherent and complete user
> > > documentation. Almost all the committers we have, have come because
> they
> > > have used a system that used bookkeeper, and needed to understand what
> > > bookkeeper was doing. None have come from the perspective of wanting to
> > > build a new system with it.
> > > >
> > > > Right now, if someone came to the site and tried build something with
> > > bookkeeper, they'd lost. We need to make it so that someone with only a
> > > cursory knowledge of distributed systems can get started. Once that
> > barrier
> > > is down, getting more people and usecases should be easier.
> > > >
> > > > -Ivan
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Flavio Junqueira
> > > <fpjunqueira@yahoo.com.invalid <ma...@yahoo.com.invalid>>
> > > wrote:
> > > > The options I know for community growth are:
> > > > - Frequent releases to make sure we incorporate patches of the
> various
> > > contributors and so that we can new committers joining.- Talks in
> various
> > > visible events like ApacheCon, Strata, etc.- Meetups in different
> > locations
> > > to attract new contributors.
> > > > - Blog posts about the project, use cases, etc.
> > > > Increasing the frequency of releases is probably a good idea,
> something
> > > like one every 3-4 months just to have a reference.
> > > > -Flavio
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: Proposed board report

[Sijie Guo <gu...@gmail.com>]

+1

On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 9:58 AM, Ivan Kelly <iv...@apache.org> wrote:

> Since there have been no concrete amendments proposed, I'm going to submit
> as is. It can always be updated later, but they wanted the report by today.
>
> -Ivan
>
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Flavio Junqueira <
> fpjunqueira@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > I appreciate that good and coherent documentation is important.
> > Documentation in open-source projects tend to be continuously evolving,
> so
> > if you're going to wait for that to be done before you do anything else,
> > then we are going be like this for a long time. What I have stated needs
> to
> > happen in parallel with the documentation evolving or at least
> > presentations and blog posts. That's what many other successful projects
> > have done and do, so I'm not sure why you think we'll do well by not
> doing
> > it.
> >
> > People also tend to get inspired by use cases even if they don't fully
> > understand the mechanics of the underlying system. They will correlate a
> > use case with their reality, possibly get curious and go learn more. From
> > what I've seen, a lot of people end up getting involved in projects after
> > they see a discussion about a similar use case that has been used
> > successfully. Good documentation definitely helps once we have attracted
> > the attention of a developer.
> >
> > I'm fine with not having frequently releases if we don't have a good flow
> > of contributions, but once we start having more contributions, it is
> > important that users see their contributions in releases.
> >
> > Finally, it is good if the report includes more than just the immediate
> > stuff we need to do. Including a long term plan for developing the
> > community would be a nice addition and I've already stated what I believe
> > is important.
> >
> > -Flavio
> >
> >
> > > On 09 Dec 2014, at 17:59, Ivan Kelly <iv...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > I think, before any of that, we need coherent and complete user
> > documentation. Almost all the committers we have, have come because they
> > have used a system that used bookkeeper, and needed to understand what
> > bookkeeper was doing. None have come from the perspective of wanting to
> > build a new system with it.
> > >
> > > Right now, if someone came to the site and tried build something with
> > bookkeeper, they'd lost. We need to make it so that someone with only a
> > cursory knowledge of distributed systems can get started. Once that
> barrier
> > is down, getting more people and usecases should be easier.
> > >
> > > -Ivan
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Flavio Junqueira
> > <fpjunqueira@yahoo.com.invalid <ma...@yahoo.com.invalid>>
> > wrote:
> > > The options I know for community growth are:
> > > - Frequent releases to make sure we incorporate patches of the various
> > contributors and so that we can new committers joining.- Talks in various
> > visible events like ApacheCon, Strata, etc.- Meetups in different
> locations
> > to attract new contributors.
> > > - Blog posts about the project, use cases, etc.
> > > Increasing the frequency of releases is probably a good idea, something
> > like one every 3-4 months just to have a reference.
> > > -Flavio
> > >
> >
> >
>

Re: Proposed board report

[Ivan Kelly <iv...@apache.org>]

Since there have been no concrete amendments proposed, I'm going to submit
as is. It can always be updated later, but they wanted the report by today.

-Ivan

On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Flavio Junqueira <
fpjunqueira@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

> I appreciate that good and coherent documentation is important.
> Documentation in open-source projects tend to be continuously evolving, so
> if you're going to wait for that to be done before you do anything else,
> then we are going be like this for a long time. What I have stated needs to
> happen in parallel with the documentation evolving or at least
> presentations and blog posts. That's what many other successful projects
> have done and do, so I'm not sure why you think we'll do well by not doing
> it.
>
> People also tend to get inspired by use cases even if they don't fully
> understand the mechanics of the underlying system. They will correlate a
> use case with their reality, possibly get curious and go learn more. From
> what I've seen, a lot of people end up getting involved in projects after
> they see a discussion about a similar use case that has been used
> successfully. Good documentation definitely helps once we have attracted
> the attention of a developer.
>
> I'm fine with not having frequently releases if we don't have a good flow
> of contributions, but once we start having more contributions, it is
> important that users see their contributions in releases.
>
> Finally, it is good if the report includes more than just the immediate
> stuff we need to do. Including a long term plan for developing the
> community would be a nice addition and I've already stated what I believe
> is important.
>
> -Flavio
>
>
> > On 09 Dec 2014, at 17:59, Ivan Kelly <iv...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > I think, before any of that, we need coherent and complete user
> documentation. Almost all the committers we have, have come because they
> have used a system that used bookkeeper, and needed to understand what
> bookkeeper was doing. None have come from the perspective of wanting to
> build a new system with it.
> >
> > Right now, if someone came to the site and tried build something with
> bookkeeper, they'd lost. We need to make it so that someone with only a
> cursory knowledge of distributed systems can get started. Once that barrier
> is down, getting more people and usecases should be easier.
> >
> > -Ivan
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Flavio Junqueira
> <fpjunqueira@yahoo.com.invalid <ma...@yahoo.com.invalid>>
> wrote:
> > The options I know for community growth are:
> > - Frequent releases to make sure we incorporate patches of the various
> contributors and so that we can new committers joining.- Talks in various
> visible events like ApacheCon, Strata, etc.- Meetups in different locations
> to attract new contributors.
> > - Blog posts about the project, use cases, etc.
> > Increasing the frequency of releases is probably a good idea, something
> like one every 3-4 months just to have a reference.
> > -Flavio
> >
>
>

Re: Proposed board report

[Flavio Junqueira <fp...@yahoo.com.INVALID>]

I appreciate that good and coherent documentation is important. Documentation in open-source projects tend to be continuously evolving, so if you're going to wait for that to be done before you do anything else, then we are going be like this for a long time. What I have stated needs to happen in parallel with the documentation evolving or at least presentations and blog posts. That's what many other successful projects have done and do, so I'm not sure why you think we'll do well by not doing it.

People also tend to get inspired by use cases even if they don't fully understand the mechanics of the underlying system. They will correlate a use case with their reality, possibly get curious and go learn more. From what I've seen, a lot of people end up getting involved in projects after they see a discussion about a similar use case that has been used successfully. Good documentation definitely helps once we have attracted the attention of a developer. 

I'm fine with not having frequently releases if we don't have a good flow of contributions, but once we start having more contributions, it is important that users see their contributions in releases.

Finally, it is good if the report includes more than just the immediate stuff we need to do. Including a long term plan for developing the community would be a nice addition and I've already stated what I believe is important. 

-Flavio


> On 09 Dec 2014, at 17:59, Ivan Kelly <iv...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> I think, before any of that, we need coherent and complete user documentation. Almost all the committers we have, have come because they have used a system that used bookkeeper, and needed to understand what bookkeeper was doing. None have come from the perspective of wanting to build a new system with it. 
> 
> Right now, if someone came to the site and tried build something with bookkeeper, they'd lost. We need to make it so that someone with only a cursory knowledge of distributed systems can get started. Once that barrier is down, getting more people and usecases should be easier.
> 
> -Ivan
> 
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Flavio Junqueira <fpjunqueira@yahoo.com.invalid <ma...@yahoo.com.invalid>> wrote:
> The options I know for community growth are:
> - Frequent releases to make sure we incorporate patches of the various contributors and so that we can new committers joining.- Talks in various visible events like ApacheCon, Strata, etc.- Meetups in different locations to attract new contributors.
> - Blog posts about the project, use cases, etc.
> Increasing the frequency of releases is probably a good idea, something like one every 3-4 months just to have a reference.
> -Flavio
> 

Re: Proposed board report

[Ivan Kelly <iv...@apache.org>]

I think, before any of that, we need coherent and complete user
documentation. Almost all the committers we have, have come because they
have used a system that used bookkeeper, and needed to understand what
bookkeeper was doing. None have come from the perspective of wanting to
build a new system with it.

Right now, if someone came to the site and tried build something with
bookkeeper, they'd lost. We need to make it so that someone with only a
cursory knowledge of distributed systems can get started. Once that barrier
is down, getting more people and usecases should be easier.

-Ivan

On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Flavio Junqueira <
fpjunqueira@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

> The options I know for community growth are:
> - Frequent releases to make sure we incorporate patches of the various
> contributors and so that we can new committers joining.- Talks in various
> visible events like ApacheCon, Strata, etc.- Meetups in different locations
> to attract new contributors.
> - Blog posts about the project, use cases, etc.
> Increasing the frequency of releases is probably a good idea, something
> like one every 3-4 months just to have a reference.
> -Flavio
>

Re: Proposed board report

[Flavio Junqueira <fp...@yahoo.com.INVALID>]

The options I know for community growth are:
- Frequent releases to make sure we incorporate patches of the various contributors and so that we can new committers joining.- Talks in various visible events like ApacheCon, Strata, etc.- Meetups in different locations to attract new contributors.
- Blog posts about the project, use cases, etc.
Increasing the frequency of releases is probably a good idea, something like one every 3-4 months just to have a reference.
-Flavio

Re: Proposed board report

[Ivan Kelly <iv...@apache.org>]

There are no infra issues. The infra is all set up now.

Could you propose a high-level plan for the next releases and growing the
community? TBH I haven't thought about it in detail since TLP.

In any case, we'll have another report in 1 month.

-Ivan

On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Flavio Junqueira <
fpjunqueira@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

> I think it is missing information about infra issues. If there is anything
> pending and waiting on infra, it'd be good to have it in the report. The
> board might also be interested in seeing what the high-level plan is for
> the next releases and thoughts on how to develop the community and such. In
> particular, how we plan to attract more committers and such. We might want
> to have a discussion on private first about this.
> -Flavio

Re: Proposed board report

[Flavio Junqueira <fp...@yahoo.com.INVALID>]

I think it is missing information about infra issues. If there is anything pending and waiting on infra, it'd be good to have it in the report. The board might also be interested in seeing what the high-level plan is for the next releases and thoughts on how to develop the community and such. In particular, how we plan to attract more committers and such. We might want to have a discussion on private first about this.
-Flavio