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Posted to dev@avalon.apache.org by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org> on 2002/08/08 14:58:37 UTC
Switching out Cocoon
Just to let you know, I did not change whether the individual projects
used Anakia or not--I merely changed the file that they used to generate
the menu.
I would like ot move forward in hacking Anakia AND Cocoon to use the
Document 1.1 and other DTDs from Forrest. What is important to me (as
I have said many times before) is not the tool that does the generation,
but the markup used for it. With a well formed and predictable markup,
things like Forrest, Cocoon, Anakia, WikiWorld, FooBar, or Rhinoplasty
can be used to generate the docs (in case you didn't get it, the last
three "tools" were jokes).
All we as developers/maintainers should care about is how to markup our
documents--and let whatever tool we use do the work.
For the record:
For pure HTML generation Cocoon has approached or come close to the
speed
of Anakia (I have had doc generation happen in less than 8-9 seconds for
the individual projects). The thing that takes a _long_ time is the PDF
generation (i.e. the "Developing with Avalon" book).
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Switching out Cocoon
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 9 Aug 2002 00:12, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@apache.org]
> >
> > On Fri, 9 Aug 2002 00:08, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > > > From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@apache.org]
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 8 Aug 2002 23:55, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So let me get this straight.
> > > >
> > > > 1. Documentation build works, website looks great.
> > >
> > > Wrong. Documentation only built for you.
> >
> > False but don't let facts get in the way of a good story.
> >
> :)
>
> Ok, it *may* have worked for a couple other people, but I
> am not the only one it didn't work for.
All you needed to do was have jakarta-site checked out and it should work.
There was a stylesheet problem at one stage because I left a space where
there shouldn't have been one but that never lasted more than a few days.
That still does not explain why you feel it is justified that you mess up the
website and other people have to go in and clean up after you. After all your
and Nicolas posturing have we got a better website? Is our site better off
that you made those changes? No - it isn't - but that is never your fault and
thus you dont plan to fix up your fuck ups.
*sigh* and I bet you wonder why it is I don't want to use cocoon.
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Cheers,
Peter Donald
'Most men would rather die than think. Many do.'
Bertrand Russell
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RE: Switching out Cocoon
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
> From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@apache.org]
>
> On Fri, 9 Aug 2002 00:08, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > > From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@apache.org]
> > >
> > > On Thu, 8 Aug 2002 23:55, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > >
> > > So let me get this straight.
> > >
> > > 1. Documentation build works, website looks great.
> >
> > Wrong. Documentation only built for you.
>
> False but don't let facts get in the way of a good story.
:)
Ok, it *may* have worked for a couple other people, but I
am not the only one it didn't work for.
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Re: Switching out Cocoon
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 9 Aug 2002 00:08, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@apache.org]
> >
> > On Thu, 8 Aug 2002 23:55, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> >
> > So let me get this straight.
> >
> > 1. Documentation build works, website looks great.
>
> Wrong. Documentation only built for you.
False but don't let facts get in the way of a good story.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
*------------------------------------------------*
| The student who is never required to do what |
| he cannot do never does what he can do. |
| - John Stuart Mill |
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Re: Switching out Cocoon
Posted by Leif Mortenson <le...@tanukisoftware.com>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> Cocoon is more powerful, has docs crawling and Forrest, which uses
> Cocoon, will soon make sites updates automatic from a bot, as is
> happening already for a couple of projects out of Apache.
Automatic updates are something that sounds sexy. But I would be a
strong -1 on implemenenting that.
The online site documentation is a product of Avalon. It is where
people come to learn how to use the
code that we all work so hard to create. The online site needs to
always be working and needs to always
look good. This is a lot more important than keeping it up to date
with the latest code on a nightly basis.
If the build is working. Then people who are on CVS can build docs from
CVS as well.
We do not come anywhere close to asking the average user to use nightly
builds. Why would we want
them to view the nightly build of our documentation?
When you try out a piece of code and it crashes. You don't come back.
Well our users view the site
long before they even look at our code. It is more important that it
works than for it to be super sexy.
Which reminds me I need to document the instrument packages :-/
Leif
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Re: Switching out Cocoon
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Leif Mortenson wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>> I wasn't able to build it too.
>> Now I can.
>
>
> That was because of way too many hours of going through and fixing
> everything!
I was refering to the site I currently use...
> Its done now.
Thank you very much :-)
> Lets just choose one application to build the docs and move forward with
> making
> it consistant across all projects. Just having things look the same
> would have made
> it all a lot easier.
>
> What are the pros and cons of using each Cocoon and Anakia? They both seem
> to work once they are set up correctly, but I would like to get us to
> the point where
> we are only using one or the other.
>
> Lets all keep it friendly.
Cocoon is more powerful, has docs crawling and Forrest, which uses
Cocoon, will soon make sites updates automatic from a bot, as is
happening already for a couple of projects out of Apache.
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Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Switching out Cocoon
Posted by Leif Mortenson <le...@tanukisoftware.com>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> I wasn't able to build it too.
> Now I can.
That was because of way too many hours of going through and fixing
everything!
Its done now.
Lets just choose one application to build the docs and move forward with
making
it consistant across all projects. Just having things look the same
would have made
it all a lot easier.
What are the pros and cons of using each Cocoon and Anakia? They both seem
to work once they are set up correctly, but I would like to get us to
the point where
we are only using one or the other.
Lets all keep it friendly.
Cheers,
Leif
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Re: Switching out Cocoon
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 9 Aug 2002 00:12, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> If you want, I can start complaining about Anakia sites not building for
> me, but it's just too easy.
right. I wonder who broke those sites though ...
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Cheers,
Peter Donald
--------------------------------------------
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us to be happy. -- Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Switching out Cocoon
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Berin Loritsch wrote:
>>From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@apache.org]
>>
>>On Thu, 8 Aug 2002 23:55, Berin Loritsch wrote:
>>
>>So let me get this straight.
>>
>>1. Documentation build works, website looks great.
>
> Wrong. Documentation only built for you.
I wasn't able to build it too.
Now I can.
If you want, I can start complaining about Anakia sites not building for
me, but it's just too easy.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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RE: Switching out Cocoon
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
> From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@apache.org]
>
> On Thu, 8 Aug 2002 23:55, Berin Loritsch wrote:
>
> So let me get this straight.
>
> 1. Documentation build works, website looks great.
Wrong. Documentation only built for you.
> 2. Berin makes arbitrary changes and screws up website.
Berin makes a change so that documentation actually builds
> 3. Peter must clean up after Berin.
>
> Aren't egos wonderful things. Look how useful they are at producing
Yep, and that's like the pot calling the kettle black ;P
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Re: Switching out Cocoon
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 8 Aug 2002 23:55, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@apache.org]
> >
> > On Thu, 8 Aug 2002 23:50, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > > > From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@apache.org]
> > >
> > > What I did do was make the "site" use Cocoon, and it
> >
> > ignores all the
> >
> > > individual project settings. It acts directly on the source. I.e.
> > > another reason to have a consistent markup.
> >
> > So what you are saying is that you screwed up the website,
> > uploaded it and
> > have no intention of fixing it.
>
> No I am not saying I have no intention of fixing it. If you
> want to upload a corrected site for the sites where you skrewed
> up the markup language then feel free--you only need to generate
> docs from the individual project.
So let me get this straight.
1. Documentation build works, website looks great.
2. Berin makes arbitrary changes and screws up website.
3. Peter must clean up after Berin.
Aren't egos wonderful things. Look how useful they are at producing
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
*------------------------------------------------------*
| "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want |
| to test a man's character, give him power." |
| -Abraham Lincoln |
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RE: Switching out Cocoon
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
> From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@apache.org]
>
> On Thu, 8 Aug 2002 23:50, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > > From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@apache.org]
> > >
> >
> > What I did do was make the "site" use Cocoon, and it
> ignores all the
> > individual project settings. It acts directly on the source. I.e.
> > another reason to have a consistent markup.
>
> So what you are saying is that you screwed up the website,
> uploaded it and
> have no intention of fixing it.
No I am not saying I have no intention of fixing it. If you
want to upload a corrected site for the sites where you skrewed
up the markup language then feel free--you only need to generate
docs from the individual project.
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Re: Switching out Cocoon
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 8 Aug 2002 23:50, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@apache.org]
> >
> > On Thu, 8 Aug 2002 22:58, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > > Just to let you know, I did not change whether the
> >
> > individual projects
> >
> > > used Anakia or not--I merely changed the file that they used to
> > > generate the menu.
> >
> > So you weren't the person who uploaded extension website ?
> >
> > hmmm
>
> What I did do was make the "site" use Cocoon, and it ignores
> all the individual project settings. It acts directly on the
> source. I.e. another reason to have a consistent markup.
So what you are saying is that you screwed up the website, uploaded it and
have no intention of fixing it.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, and a dark side, and
it binds the universe together ...
-- Carl Zwanzig
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RE: Switching out Cocoon
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
> From: Peter Donald [mailto:peter@apache.org]
>
> On Thu, 8 Aug 2002 22:58, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> > Just to let you know, I did not change whether the
> individual projects
> > used Anakia or not--I merely changed the file that they used to
> > generate the menu.
>
> So you weren't the person who uploaded extension website ?
>
> hmmm
What I did do was make the "site" use Cocoon, and it ignores
all the individual project settings. It acts directly on the
source. I.e. another reason to have a consistent markup.
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Re: Switching out Cocoon
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 8 Aug 2002 22:58, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> Just to let you know, I did not change whether the individual projects
> used Anakia or not--I merely changed the file that they used to generate
> the menu.
So you weren't the person who uploaded extension website ?
hmmm
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
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| Contrary to popular belief, UNIX is user-friendly. It |
| just happens to be selective on who it makes friendship |
| with. |
| - Richard Cook |
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