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Posted to users@subversion.apache.org by "Bert Huijben (TCG)" <b....@competence.biz> on 2008/09/17 19:58:49 UTC
[RFC] Dropping support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 in Subversion 1.6?
Hi,
Just a quick question to you all. Do you use a current subversion release
(1.4 or 1.5) on Windows '9X or NT 4.0?
We are thinking about dropping support for these Windows versions starting
with Subversion 1.6, by formalizing Windows 2000 or later as requirement for
the Windows releases.
(You can always use an older Subversion client to connect to a new server on
these windows versions)
Microsoft dropped the support for these windows versions a few years ago and
the currently released binaries from Collabnet, SlikSVN and probably also
Tigris are only targeted towards Windows 2000 and later.
Removing the compatibility workarounds, would clean up the authentication
code considerable and might even enhance the speed a little bit.
What do you think?
Bert
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RE: [RFC] Dropping support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 in Subversion 1.6?
Posted by "Bert Huijben (TCG)" <b....@competence.biz>.
[Resend from another user account to hopefully bypass the moderation and
slightly updated]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mikel King [mailto:mikel.king@techally.com]
> Sent: donderdag 18 september 2008 15:53
> To: Bert Huijben (TCG)
> Cc: users@subversion.tigris.org
> Subject: Re: [RFC] Dropping support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 in
> Subversion 1.6?
>
>
> On Sep 17, 2008, at 3:58 PM, Bert Huijben (TCG) wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Just a quick question to you all. Do you use a current subversion
> > release
> > (1.4 or 1.5) on Windows '9X or NT 4.0?
> >
> > We are thinking about dropping support for these Windows versions
> > starting
> > with Subversion 1.6, by formalizing Windows 2000 or later as
> > requirement for
> > the Windows releases.
> >
> > (You can always use an older Subversion client to connect to a new
> > server on
> > these windows versions)
> >
> > Microsoft dropped the support for these windows versions a few years
> > ago and
> > the currently released binaries from Collabnet, SlikSVN and probably
> > also
> > Tigris are only targeted towards Windows 2000 and later.
> >
> > Removing the compatibility workarounds, would clean up the
> > authentication
> > code considerable and might even enhance the speed a little bit.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > Bert
>
> Personally, I'd drop Win2k and below.
Mikel, Pat, Giulio, Steven and a few others:
Thanks for all your input.
My statistics from SharpSvn/AnkhSVN (and responses on the development
list) indicated that there are at least a few hundred 1.5 users on Windows
2000; the more recent responses indicate probably more.
Currently we have nothing to gain in our code base by limiting support to
only Windows XP and later. (There is no windows 2000 specific
compatibility code in subversion as far as I can see)
I see no reason to drop support for Windows 2000 at this time.
There might be a reason in a few years, when we support optional features of
the
newer windows versions.
(e.g. Windows Vista introduced real symbolic links and 'Windows 7' will
probably add other new features that might be useful for subversion too).
But we will see when that time arrives.
Thanks!
Bert
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Re: [RFC] Dropping support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 in Subversion 1.6?
Posted by Alec Kloss <al...@oracle.com>.
On 2008-09-18 10:58, Andy Levy wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 09:53, Mikel King <mi...@techally.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Sep 17, 2008, at 3:58 PM, Bert Huijben (TCG) wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Just a quick question to you all. Do you use a current subversion release
> >> (1.4 or 1.5) on Windows '9X or NT 4.0?
> >>
> >> We are thinking about dropping support for these Windows versions starting
> >> with Subversion 1.6, by formalizing Windows 2000 or later as requirement
> >> for
> >> the Windows releases.
I still find Windows 2000 to be useful. Older versions, not so
much, mostly they're lacking most of the useful security stuff
added in Windows 2000. Unless there's a compelling reason to
stop supporting it, I'd prefer to keep support for it.
--
Alec.Kloss@oracle.com Oracle Middleware
PGP key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x432B9956
Re: [RFC] Dropping support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 in Subversion 1.6?
Posted by Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 09:53, Mikel King <mi...@techally.com> wrote:
>
> On Sep 17, 2008, at 3:58 PM, Bert Huijben (TCG) wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Just a quick question to you all. Do you use a current subversion release
>> (1.4 or 1.5) on Windows '9X or NT 4.0?
>>
>> We are thinking about dropping support for these Windows versions starting
>> with Subversion 1.6, by formalizing Windows 2000 or later as requirement
>> for
>> the Windows releases.
>>
>> (You can always use an older Subversion client to connect to a new server
>> on
>> these windows versions)
>>
>> Microsoft dropped the support for these windows versions a few years ago
>> and
>> the currently released binaries from Collabnet, SlikSVN and probably also
>> Tigris are only targeted towards Windows 2000 and later.
>>
>> Removing the compatibility workarounds, would clean up the authentication
>> code considerable and might even enhance the speed a little bit.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Bert
>
> Personally, I'd drop Win2k and below.
Win2K is still under Microsoft's "Extended Support" until 7/13/2010.
NT4 SP6a ended 12/31/2004.
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RE: [RFC] Dropping support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 in Subversion
1.6?
Posted by Giulio Troccoli <Gi...@uk.linedata.com>.
>
Linedata Services (UK) Ltd
Registered Office: Bishopsgate Court, 4-12 Norton Folgate, London, E1 6DB
Registered in England and Wales No 3027851 VAT Reg No 778499447
-----Original Message-----
> From: Mikel King [mailto:mikel.king@techally.com]
> Sent: 18 September 2008 14:53
> To: Bert Huijben (TCG)
> Cc: users@subversion.tigris.org
> Subject: Re: [RFC] Dropping support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 in
> Subversion 1.6?
>
>
> On Sep 17, 2008, at 3:58 PM, Bert Huijben (TCG) wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Just a quick question to you all. Do you use a current subversion
> > release
> > (1.4 or 1.5) on Windows '9X or NT 4.0?
> >
> > We are thinking about dropping support for these Windows versions
> > starting
> > with Subversion 1.6, by formalizing Windows 2000 or later as
> > requirement for
> > the Windows releases.
> >
> > (You can always use an older Subversion client to connect to a new
> > server on
> > these windows versions)
> >
> > Microsoft dropped the support for these windows versions a few years
> > ago and
> > the currently released binaries from Collabnet, SlikSVN and probably
> > also
> > Tigris are only targeted towards Windows 2000 and later.
> >
> > Removing the compatibility workarounds, would clean up the
> > authentication
> > code considerable and might even enhance the speed a little bit.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > Bert
>
> Personally, I'd drop Win2k and below.
For what's worth it, I agree
Giulio
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RE: [RFC] Dropping support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 in Subversion 1.6?
Posted by Bert Huijben <be...@vmoo.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mikel King [mailto:mikel.king@techally.com]
> Sent: donderdag 18 september 2008 15:53
> To: Bert Huijben (TCG)
> Cc: users@subversion.tigris.org
> Subject: Re: [RFC] Dropping support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 in
> Subversion 1.6?
>
>
> On Sep 17, 2008, at 3:58 PM, Bert Huijben (TCG) wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Just a quick question to you all. Do you use a current subversion
> > release
> > (1.4 or 1.5) on Windows '9X or NT 4.0?
> >
> > We are thinking about dropping support for these Windows versions
> > starting
> > with Subversion 1.6, by formalizing Windows 2000 or later as
> > requirement for
> > the Windows releases.
> >
> > (You can always use an older Subversion client to connect to a new
> > server on
> > these windows versions)
> >
> > Microsoft dropped the support for these windows versions a few years
> > ago and
> > the currently released binaries from Collabnet, SlikSVN and probably
> > also
> > Tigris are only targeted towards Windows 2000 and later.
> >
> > Removing the compatibility workarounds, would clean up the
> > authentication
> > code considerable and might even enhance the speed a little bit.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > Bert
>
> Personally, I'd drop Win2k and below.
Mikel, Pat, Giulio, Steven and a few others:
Thanks for all your input.
My statistics from SharpSvn/AnkhSVN (and responses on the development list)
indicate that there are at least a few hundred 1.5 users on Windows 2000.
Currently we have nothing to gain in our code base by limiting support to
only Windows XP and later. (There is no windows 2000 specific compatibility
code in subversion as far as I can see)
At this time I see no reason to drop support for Windows 2000.
There might be a reason in a few years, when we support features of the
newer windows versions (e.g. Windows Vista introduced real symbolic links
and 'Windows 7' will probably add other new features that might be useful to
add to subversion later)
Thanks!
Bert
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Re: [RFC] Dropping support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 in Subversion 1.6?
Posted by Jan Hendrik <li...@gmail.com>.
Concerning Re: [RFC] Dropping support for Wind
Mikel King wrote on 18 Sep 2008, 9:53, at least in part:
> On Sep 17, 2008, at 3:58 PM, Bert Huijben (TCG) wrote:
>
> > We are thinking about dropping support for these Windows versions
> > starting with Subversion 1.6, by formalizing Windows 2000 or later
> > as requirement for the Windows releases.
> Personally, I'd drop Win2k and below.
If you already are at the dropping business, then why not do it right
and drop XP, too. Now that even would have a positive side effect
by giving Vista a much needed boost, enhancing overall computer
sales significantly - or finally push the rest of the world over to
Linux. And those who would not or could not also benefit from
having one more software less to bother about updates.
And from sarcasm to facts: here we run W2K on all but one
machine which would not run W2K properly the moment it gets
more than 1GB of RAM. But boy, how much extra trouble to
civilize XP than W2K!
Jan Hendrik
---------------------------------------
Freedom quote:
If we command our wealth, we shall be rich and free.
If our wealth commands us, we are poor indeed.
-- Edmund Burke
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Re: [RFC] Dropping support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 in Subversion 1.6?
Posted by Mikel King <mi...@techally.com>.
On Sep 17, 2008, at 3:58 PM, Bert Huijben (TCG) wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Just a quick question to you all. Do you use a current subversion
> release
> (1.4 or 1.5) on Windows '9X or NT 4.0?
>
> We are thinking about dropping support for these Windows versions
> starting
> with Subversion 1.6, by formalizing Windows 2000 or later as
> requirement for
> the Windows releases.
>
> (You can always use an older Subversion client to connect to a new
> server on
> these windows versions)
>
> Microsoft dropped the support for these windows versions a few years
> ago and
> the currently released binaries from Collabnet, SlikSVN and probably
> also
> Tigris are only targeted towards Windows 2000 and later.
>
> Removing the compatibility workarounds, would clean up the
> authentication
> code considerable and might even enhance the speed a little bit.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Bert
Personally, I'd drop Win2k and below.
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Re: [RFC] Dropping support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 in Subversion 1.6?
Posted by Duncan Booth <du...@suttoncourtenay.org.uk>.
Pat Farrell <pf...@pfarrell.com> wrote:
> I'm afraid its been too long, is NT4.0 the version before Windows 2000?
> I think that even W2K fails the "12 months after the vendor stops
> support policy.
Microsoft continues support for their operating systems for longer than you
might think: paid support for Windows 2000 continues at least until July
2010 and they also offer custom support contracts which can extend beyond
the usual 10 year cutoff.
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Re: [RFC] Dropping support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 in Subversion
1.6?
Posted by Raman Gupta <ro...@fastmail.fm>.
Anders J. Munch wrote:
> Pat Farrell wrote:
>> I'm afraid its been too long, is NT4.0 the version before
>> Windows 2000?
>> I think that even W2K fails the "12 months after the vendor stops
>> support policy.
>
> W2K still gets security updates. I use current subversion releases on W2K.
As do I.
Cheers,
Raman
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Re: [RFC] Dropping support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 in Subversion 1.6?
Posted by "Anders J. Munch" <aj...@flonidan.dk>.
Pat Farrell wrote:
> I'm afraid its been too long, is NT4.0 the version before
> Windows 2000?
> I think that even W2K fails the "12 months after the vendor stops
> support policy.
W2K still gets security updates. I use current subversion releases on W2K.
- Anders
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Re: [RFC] Dropping support for Windows '9X and NT 4.0 in Subversion
1.6?
Posted by Pat Farrell <pf...@pfarrell.com>.
Bert Huijben (TCG) wrote:
> Just a quick question to you all. Do you use a current subversion release
> (1.4 or 1.5) on Windows '9X or NT 4.0?
> Microsoft dropped the support for these windows versions a few years ago
I believe, IMHO, that there is no point in providing "support" longer
than say 12 months after the vendor kills support.
Win9x was used well into the XP era, but I'm not sure that the SVN
target audience (developers, etc) would keep using really old versions.
I'm afraid its been too long, is NT4.0 the version before Windows 2000?
I think that even W2K fails the "12 months after the vendor stops
support policy.
What's not as clear to me is how this fits into various Linux distros.
Ubuntu, for example, has a fairly short "support" policy for non-LTS
versions.
But the principal here has to be, at some date, supporting really old
stuff is more work for the subversion team (and any other team) than its
worth.
IMHO, YMMV, etc
Pat
--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/
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