[users@httpd] Test - and Search for Dreamweaver/Apache Users

[David Blomstrom <da...@yahoo.com>]

My Eudora program crapped out, so I'm trying to access
this newsgroup from a different e-mail address.

I'm sending this message to see if I succeeded and to
ask if there are any Dreamweaver users who might be
able to offer a newbie some advice.

Very briefly, I'm using Windows XP Pro, and I want to
learn how to use Apache, PHP and MySQL. I downloaded
Apache 1.3.29, which installed very easily and worked
fine, but PHP blew me away.

So I downloaded a preconfigured package (XAMPP), with
Apache 2.0, Apache 4 and MySQL. Everything seems to be
working, but I'm having trouble with the next step -
previewing my pages with Dreamweaver.

I'll relay some more information is this message gets through.

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Re: [users@httpd] Switching from Apache 2 to Apache 1.3.29

[Robert Andersson <ro...@profundis.nu>]

David Blomstrom wrote:
> My understanding was that Apache 2.0 is still a bit
> untested, and some people told me I should be leery of
> using the latest Apache, PHP and MySQL, because some
> webhosts might not be running the latest.

Although Apache 1.3 is likely to be much more tested than 2.0 (since it is
newer), saying that it is untested is very misleading. I have been running
Apache 2.0 in production environment for more than two years. That's one
test for you ;)

But, they might have a point in that most hosts run Apache 1.3, which does
slightly differ from Apache 2.0. Thus, if you develop something to take
advantage of Apache 2.0-specific features, it might not run well on some
hosts.

Regards,
Robert Andersson


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Re: [users@httpd] Switching from Apache 2 to Apache 1.3.29

[David Blomstrom <da...@yahoo.com>]

--- Robert Andersson <ro...@profundis.nu> wrote:
> David Blomstrom wrote:
> > In the meantime, several people (including my ISP)
> have
> > advised me to ditch Apache 2.0 in favor of 1.3.29.
> 
"What was their argument for that?"

My understanding was that Apache 2.0 is still a bit
untested, and some people told me I should be leery of
using the latest Apache, PHP and MySQL, because some
webhosts might not be running the latest.

That didn't sound like a serious issue to me; I
figured it would be easy to just publish a couple
pages online and see if they work. At any rate, that's
exacty what I did, and they seem to work just fine
(though I haven't tried any really elaborate
experiments yet).

> > I've been adivsed to move my Dreamweaver websites
> into
> > the folder \Apache\htdocs\ (That folder doesn't
> exist
> > under Apache 2.0, but it does with Apache 1.3.29.)
> 
> What? First, I don't see the reason in using
> Apache's htdocs directory,
> especially if you have websiteS; set up virtual
> hosts and put them somewhere
> independent of Apache. Besides, you should have an
> Apache2\htdocs directory.
> Exactly where it is located depends on where you
> choosed to install it.

My mistake; I discovered that XAMPP installed htdocs
outside the main Apache folder. Thanks for the tip on
virtual directories; I was thinking I'd like to be
able to keep my websites outside the Apache folder, so
I'll do some research on that.

> Unless you are running Apache on Windows 9x/ME
> (which is evil), you should
> run it as a service. Go read the Apache docs on
> installing/running Apache
> under Windows (NT/2k/XP). Then again, I am not very
> keen on these
> "preconfigured packages", so I wouldn't know.

I'm in no position to rate these packages, because I'm
so new to all of this. But, at the moment, I'm
extremely impressed with XAMPP. If it self-destructed
somehow, I could pull out my copy of XAMPP and
reinstall Apache, PHP and MySQL in about five minutes,
with no need to configure anything. But I may have
second thoughts after I really start working with this
stuff.

> > I don't understand that last sentence. To close
> down
> > Apache 2.0, I have to "close the Apache Command
> > (CMD)"? How do I do that?
> 
> I guess that after running those batch files, a
> "command window" will be
> hanging around somewhere. Close it as you usually
> close a window, or give it
> focus and hit Ctrl-C, and enter "exit".

Ha! That's the big joke on me. I read so many detailed
instructions about various ways to shut the Apache
console down, I wasn't sure that XAMPP's instructions
(translated from German) were meant to be taken
literally. When I tried it, my system was screwed up
(or so I thought).

But two other people told me to just click the X, so I
tried it again. Voila!

I rebooted my computer to make sure it's really
working. Apache is now apparently running as a
service; I see Apache.exe in under the Window Task
Manager's processes, and I get a page on my computer
when I type http://localhost/ into a browser.

Thanks again for all your help.

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Re: [users@httpd] Switching from Apache 2 to Apache 1.3.29

[Robert Andersson <ro...@profundis.nu>]

Nick Kew wrote:
> PHP being an almighty hack, there are issues with thread-safety that
> mean it's standard advice to use the Prefork MPM with it.  Not sure
> how that translates to windows, where preforking is inherently
> inefficient.

I believe that it is only an issue if you use certain libraries that are yet
not "certified" thread-safe. I've been running Apache2 + PHP on both Windows
and *nix (in production) without any major issue; none related to
thread-safety at least.

> With Apache 2 you can use MySQL far more efficiently than before:
> see mod_mysql_pool at http://apache.webthing.com/ or the corresponding
> DBI module at (IIRC) mod-authn.sourceforge.net.

I am not too sure how that module works, but I don't know if it is much more
efficient than using PHP's persistent MySQL connections.

Regards,
Robert Andersson


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Re: [users@httpd] Switching from Apache 2 to Apache 1.3.29

[Nick Kew <ni...@webthing.com>]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Robert Andersson wrote:

> David Blomstrom wrote:
> > In the meantime, several people (including my ISP) have
> > advised me to ditch Apache 2.0 in favor of 1.3.29.
>
> What was their argument for that? There is no reason to choose 1.3 over 2.0,
> especially if you intend to run under Windows, unless there are specific
> modules you need that are yet not available for the latter.

Agreed.  Sounds like FUD, and the kind of people who would have told
you to run IIS a year or two ago.  Apache 2.0 is the stable release,
and 2.1 is where some of them would have you believe 2.0 is (i.e.
not yet ready for production use:-)

> Then don't try to do everything at once. Get Apache working properly, then
> add PHP and make sure it works.

PHP being an almighty hack, there are issues with thread-safety that
mean it's standard advice to use the Prefork MPM with it.  Not sure
how that translates to windows, where preforking is inherently
inefficient.

> MySQL is very much independent in this process, and you only need it when
> you have created PHP documents attempting to connect to it.

With Apache 2 you can use MySQL far more efficiently than before:
see mod_mysql_pool at http://apache.webthing.com/ or the corresponding
DBI module at (IIRC) mod-authn.sourceforge.net.

More generally, because Apache 2 is a far richer development environment,
you may find you can simply ditch extensions like PHP and use the native
API.  Of course if you have legacy apps, that'll be a gradual process.
Since moving to Apache 2 I've migrated most of my apps, and now have
no remaining PHP or mod_perl, and just a couple of simple CGI scripts
for functions that haven't been touched since last century.

-- 
Nick Kew


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Re: [users@httpd] Switching from Apache 2 to Apache 1.3.29

[Robert Andersson <ro...@profundis.nu>]

David Blomstrom wrote:
> In the meantime, several people (including my ISP) have
> advised me to ditch Apache 2.0 in favor of 1.3.29.

What was their argument for that? There is no reason to choose 1.3 over 2.0,
especially if you intend to run under Windows, unless there are specific
modules you need that are yet not available for the latter.

> So I wanted to ask a few general questions about my
> scheme, to see if I'm on the right track. I THINK I
> can have two Apache programs on my computer, as long
> as they aren't running at the same time, right?

Of course, and you can run them at the same time too, if you make sure they
do not bind to same IP/port combination(s).

> If so, then can I close Apache 2.0, restart Apache 1.3.29,
> then try to get Dreamweaver working with Apache 1.3.29?

Ugh, probably, yes. I don't know what "get Dreamweaver working with Apache"
implicates, but I doubt that Dreamweaver knows any difference between Apache
1.3 and 2.0.

> It's a little confusing, because I'm working with four programs, and
> I'm not really sure which can run independently of each other, which
> have to be modified (or in what sequence) to make the others work, etc.

Then don't try to do everything at once. Get Apache working properly, then
add PHP and make sure it works.

MySQL is very much independent in this process, and you only need it when
you have created PHP documents attempting to connect to it. Dreamweaver, I
imagine, will only be interested in what URL to use when previewing, but I
could be mistaking.

> I've been adivsed to move my Dreamweaver websites into
> the folder \Apache\htdocs\ (That folder doesn't exist
> under Apache 2.0, but it does with Apache 1.3.29.)

What? First, I don't see the reason in using Apache's htdocs directory,
especially if you have websiteS; set up virtual hosts and put them somewhere
independent of Apache. Besides, you should have an Apache2\htdocs directory.
Exactly where it is located depends on where you choosed to install it.

> One more question. The instructions from the
> preconfigured package include the following:
>
> "Step 3: If installation ends successfully, start the
> Apache 2 with "apache_start".bat", MySQL with
> "mysql_start".bat". Stop the MySQL Server with
> "mysql_stop.bat". For shutdown the Apache HTTPD, only
> close the Apache Command (CMD)."

Unless you are running Apache on Windows 9x/ME (which is evil), you should
run it as a service. Go read the Apache docs on installing/running Apache
under Windows (NT/2k/XP). Then again, I am not very keen on these
"preconfigured packages", so I wouldn't know.

> I don't understand that last sentence. To close down
> Apache 2.0, I have to "close the Apache Command
> (CMD)"? How do I do that?

I guess that after running those batch files, a "command window" will be
hanging around somewhere. Close it as you usually close a window, or give it
focus and hit Ctrl-C, and enter "exit".

Regards,
Robert Andersson


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[users@httpd] Switching from Apache 2 to Apache 1.3.29

[David Blomstrom <da...@yahoo.com>]

I installed Apache 1.3.29 by itself, then installed a
preconfigured package with Apache 2.0, PHP and MySQL.
I'm now trying to get everything working. In the
meantime, several people (including my ISP) have
advised me to ditch Apache 2.0 in favor of 1.3.29.

So I wanted to ask a few general questions about my
scheme, to see if I'm on the right track. I THINK I
can have two Apache programs on my computer, as long
as they aren't running at the same time, right? If so,
then can I close Apache 2.0, restart Apache 1.3.29,
then try to get Dreamweaver working with Apache
1.3.29?

And if that works, then I can try to reconfigure PHP
and MySQL for Apache 1.3.29 and Dreamweaver, right?

It's a little confusing, because I'm working with four
programs, and I'm not really sure which can run
independently of each other, which have to be modified
(or in what sequence) to make the others work, etc.

I've been adivsed to move my Dreamweaver websites into
the folder \Apache\htdocs\ (That folder doesn't exist
under Apache 2.0, but it does with Apache 1.3.29.)

If I'm going to have my websites there, then I want to
move Apache 1.3.29 from C Drive > Program Files >
Apache to C Drive > Apache. So I uninstalled Apache
1.3, and I'm going to reinstall it in C > Apache.

Then, if I can't configure Apache 1.3.29, I can turn
Apache 2.0 back on. Does this sound like a sensible
strategy? 

One more question. The instructions from the
preconfigured package include the following:

"Step 3: If installation ends successfully, start the
Apache 2 with "apache_start".bat", MySQL with
"mysql_start".bat". Stop the MySQL Server with
"mysql_stop.bat". For shutdown the Apache HTTPD, only
close the Apache Command (CMD)."

I don't understand that last sentence. To close down
Apache 2.0, I have to "close the Apache Command
(CMD)"? How do I do that?


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Re: [users@httpd] Test - and Search for Dreamweaver/Apache Users

[David Blomstrom <da...@yahoo.com>]

--- Russell Shaw <rj...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:

> An ideal book that i started from is: PHP fast and
> easy web development, J.Meloni
> Half of it is on making web databases using apache,
> mysql and php.

Thanks. I'll run down to the University Bookstore and
see if I can find a copy.

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Re: [users@httpd] Test - and Search for Dreamweaver/Apache Users

[Russell Shaw <rj...@iprimus.com.au>]

David Blomstrom wrote:
> My Eudora program crapped out, so I'm trying to access
> this newsgroup from a different e-mail address.
> 
> I'm sending this message to see if I succeeded and to
> ask if there are any Dreamweaver users who might be
> able to offer a newbie some advice.
> 
> Very briefly, I'm using Windows XP Pro, and I want to
> learn how to use Apache, PHP and MySQL. I downloaded
> Apache 1.3.29, which installed very easily and worked
> fine, but PHP blew me away.
> 
> So I downloaded a preconfigured package (XAMPP), with
> Apache 2.0, Apache 4 and MySQL. Everything seems to be
> working, but I'm having trouble with the next step -
> previewing my pages with Dreamweaver.
> 
> I'll relay some more information is this message gets through.

An ideal book that i started from is: PHP fast and easy web development, J.Meloni
Half of it is on making web databases using apache, mysql and php.


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