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Posted to dev@tomcat.apache.org by Henri Gomez <hg...@apache.org> on 2004/03/18 11:33:04 UTC
[OT] Tomcat as "top level" ASF Project
Hi to all,
Just see that Struts is becaming a top level project, like ant
last year.
What's your opinions on moving Tomcat as top level project ?
Regards
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Re: [OT] Tomcat as "top level" ASF Project
Posted by Michael McGrady <mi...@michaelmcgrady.com>.
+1
At 03:05 AM 3/18/2004, you wrote:
>Remy Maucherat wrote:
>>Henri Gomez wrote:
>>
>>>Hi to all,
>>>
>>>Just see that Struts is becaming a top level project, like ant
>>>last year.
>>>
>>>What's your opinions on moving Tomcat as top level project ?
>>
>>I was against it, but given the recent board decisions, I think we really
>>need more leverage :(
>
>+1
>
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>
>
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Re: [OT] Tomcat as "top level" ASF Project
Posted by Henri Gomez <hg...@apache.org>.
Remy Maucherat wrote:
> Henri Gomez wrote:
>
>> Hi to all,
>>
>> Just see that Struts is becaming a top level project, like ant
>> last year.
>>
>> What's your opinions on moving Tomcat as top level project ?
>
>
> I was against it, but given the recent board decisions, I think we
> really need more leverage :(
+1
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Re: [OT] Tomcat as "top level" ASF Project
Posted by Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
Henri Gomez wrote:
> Hi to all,
>
> Just see that Struts is becaming a top level project, like ant
> last year.
>
> What's your opinions on moving Tomcat as top level project ?
I was against it, but given the recent board decisions, I think we
really need more leverage :(
Rémy
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Re: [OT] Tomcat as "top level" ASF Project
Posted by Tim Funk <fu...@joedog.org>.
Can anyone list the pros and cons?
The last time this was discussed it was -1. But it seems the reasons since
then may have changed.
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=104737769200002&r=1&w=2
-Tim
Henri Gomez wrote:
> Hi to all,
>
> Just see that Struts is becaming a top level project, like ant
> last year.
>
> What's your opinions on moving Tomcat as top level project ?
>
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Re: [OT] Tomcat as "top level" ASF Project
Posted by Henri Gomez <hg...@apache.org>.
> As TLP we can recomend a chair ( of course, legally the board can
> nominate whoever they want - and the chair has almost complete autority
> over the project, the PMC has just an advisory role legally - but so far
> the common practice was that the board only "hints" who they don't want
> as chair and most chairs do have the common sense to not exercise the
> rights they have ).
>
> So +1 for tomcat as TLP, and Remy as PMC chair.
+1 for both.
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Re: [OT] Tomcat as "top level" ASF Project
Posted by Costin Manolache <cm...@yahoo.com>.
Remy Maucherat wrote:
> Mladen Turk wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Henri Gomez
>>>
>>> Hi to all,
>>>
>>> Just see that Struts is becaming a top level project, like ant last
>>> year.
>>>
>>> What's your opinions on moving Tomcat as top level project ?
>>>
>>
>>
>> -1
>>
>> Why would we need that?
>
>
> Because we don't have any leverage on the ASF decisions right now, and
> this is quite bad.
I agree. At least that will give us a chance to break the "consensus" of
the board on stupid decisions and on their attitude of never consulting
with the people who are affected by their decisions.
As TLP we can recomend a chair ( of course, legally the board can
nominate whoever they want - and the chair has almost complete autority
over the project, the PMC has just an advisory role legally - but so far
the common practice was that the board only "hints" who they don't want
as chair and most chairs do have the common sense to not exercise the
rights they have ).
So +1 for tomcat as TLP, and Remy as PMC chair.
>
>> If we are not recignised already as a valuable part of ASF, why all the
>> fuzz?
>
>
> Because we don't have the said recognition.
>
I think we have plenty of recognition. Maybe not by ASF itself.
Trust me - the recognition won't change if we are a TLP.
Costin
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Re: [OT] Tomcat as "top level" ASF Project
Posted by Michael McGrady <mi...@michaelmcgrady.com>.
Lord, the Bible has had nothing but marketing since the beginning, ever
since Constantine killed the Christians that disagreed with the robber's
synod. Even today the Bible is the most cobbled book on the market, just
to meet marketing demands.
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Re: [OT] Tomcat as "top level" ASF Project
Posted by jean-frederic clere <jf...@fujitsu-siemens.com>.
Mladen Turk wrote:
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>
>>>If we are not recignised already as a valuable part of ASF, why all
>>>the fuzz?
>>
>>Because we don't have the said recognition.
>>
>
>
> ???
>
>
> I'm thinking to leave the ASF at all...
That sounds like releasing Tomcat binaries outside ASF...
>
> What was the altruistic community become the playground for the major
> companies like Sun, Covalent, IBM, JBoss, etc...
> I'm not so sure that I wish to participate in the community where some
> shareholder board has a significant influence here.
>
> If the Tomcat has not been recognized already as a valuable ASF project,
> then why all the effort?
> Who do we need to convince? What are the measures?
>
> I know that I could sound a little bit idealistic, but do we really need the
> marketing? What would be the purpose of such marketing?
> The best products do not need the marketing (take the bible for example).
Yes, but marketing is very important nowaday probably more than 2000 years ago.
> If someone thinks that my work needs the market evaluation, I'm charging
> $200 per hour.
>
> Who the fuck is the ASF board at all? How did it get elected? Not by the
> committers that's for sure.
The board started with some of the httpd committers so they understand
committers problems.
>
> MT.
>
>
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Re: [OT] Tomcat as "top level" ASF Project
Posted by Costin Manolache <cm...@yahoo.com>.
Henri Gomez wrote:
>
> Board is elected by Members, and Members by Commiters isn't it ?
Of course not. Members are elected by Members. Usually "committers" that
make constant contributions to ASF and prove community spirit and so on
( read one of the past postings by Stefano or Pier for the exact list ).
Majority of tomcat and jakarta doesn't fit ( well, I was once offered
the honor, but I didn't felt I raised to such high level and choose to
stick with the regular committers :-)
Costin
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Re: [OT] Tomcat as "top level" ASF Project
Posted by Henri Gomez <hg...@apache.org>.
>>-----Original Message-----
>>
>>>If we are not recignised already as a valuable part of ASF, why all
>>>the fuzz?
>>
>>Because we don't have the said recognition.
>>
>
>
> ???
>
>
> I'm thinking to leave the ASF at all...
Wait please...
> What was the altruistic community become the playground for the major
> companies like Sun, Covalent, IBM, JBoss, etc...
> I'm not so sure that I wish to participate in the community where some
> shareholder board has a significant influence here.
Hum, it remind me 'sad and black ideas' I've got some years ago.
But recall that you can make thing evolve when you're inside.
> If the Tomcat has not been recognized already as a valuable ASF project,
> then why all the effort?
> Who do we need to convince? What are the measures?
Well Tomcat is recognized since its the Reference Implementation of
the latest 3 servlets APIs.
> I know that I could sound a little bit idealistic, but do we really need the
> marketing? What would be the purpose of such marketing?
Not commercial marketing, a ASF / OSS marketing operation.
> The best products do not need the marketing (take the bible for example).
> If someone thinks that my work needs the market evaluation, I'm charging
> $200 per hour.
Of course.
> Who the fuck is the ASF board at all? How did it get elected? Not by the
> committers that's for sure.
Board is elected by Members, and Members by Commiters isn't it ?
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RE: [OT] Tomcat as "top level" ASF Project
Posted by Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>.
> -----Original Message-----
> > If we are not recignised already as a valuable part of ASF, why all
> > the fuzz?
>
> Because we don't have the said recognition.
>
???
I'm thinking to leave the ASF at all...
What was the altruistic community become the playground for the major
companies like Sun, Covalent, IBM, JBoss, etc...
I'm not so sure that I wish to participate in the community where some
shareholder board has a significant influence here.
If the Tomcat has not been recognized already as a valuable ASF project,
then why all the effort?
Who do we need to convince? What are the measures?
I know that I could sound a little bit idealistic, but do we really need the
marketing? What would be the purpose of such marketing?
The best products do not need the marketing (take the bible for example).
If someone thinks that my work needs the market evaluation, I'm charging
$200 per hour.
Who the fuck is the ASF board at all? How did it get elected? Not by the
committers that's for sure.
MT.
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Re: [OT] Tomcat as "top level" ASF Project
Posted by Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
Mladen Turk wrote:
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Henri Gomez
>>
>>Hi to all,
>>
>>Just see that Struts is becaming a top level project, like
>>ant last year.
>>
>>What's your opinions on moving Tomcat as top level project ?
>>
>
>
> -1
>
> Why would we need that?
Because we don't have any leverage on the ASF decisions right now, and
this is quite bad.
> If we are not recignised already as a valuable part of ASF, why all the
> fuzz?
Because we don't have the said recognition.
Rémy
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RE: [OT] Tomcat as "top level" ASF Project
Posted by Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Henri Gomez
>
> Hi to all,
>
> Just see that Struts is becaming a top level project, like
> ant last year.
>
> What's your opinions on moving Tomcat as top level project ?
>
-1
Why would we need that?
If we are not recignised already as a valuable part of ASF, why all the
fuzz?
MT.
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