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Posted to dev@lenya.apache.org by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com> on 2004/05/15 02:01:58 UTC
IRC versus mailing list, reminder ;-)
Sorry for being a pain in the *, but I really think
we should communicate much more over mailing lists than IRC,
e.g. the results of the first day of the sprint/hackathon
Thanks
Michi
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: IRC versus mailing list, reminder ;-)
Posted by "Scherler, Thorsten" <th...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> Sorry for being a pain in the *, but I really think
> we should communicate much more over mailing lists than IRC,
> e.g. the results of the first day of the sprint/hackathon
>
Hello group,
I am trying to enhance the forrest build process.
http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/community/website-update.html
-------------
Step: ant export-forrest -Dpublication=docs-new
BUILD FAILED
D:\get\eclipse\workspace\get-lenya\src\targets\export-build.xml:58:
Following er
ror occured while executing this line
D:\get\eclipse\workspace\xml-forrest\build\dist\shbat\forrest.antproxy.xml:32:
F
ollowing error occured while executing this line
D:\get\eclipse\workspace\xml-forrest\build\dist\shbat\forrest.antproxy.xml:45:
J
ava returned: 1
<broken-links>
<link
message="D:\get\eclipse\workspace\get-lenya\build\lenya\export\docs-new\build\webapp\skins\lenya-site\xslt\html\site2xhtml.xsl
(Das System kann den angegebenen Pfad nicht finden)">index.html</link>
</broken-links>
I still looking on that!
------------
...but the suggestion on irc was to create a new forrest projekt and
adept the doc-new to the new forrest-pub.
I copied heaps of files (img, status.xml,...) I can build but with some
error.
-----------
step: $lenya-site/forrest
BUILD FAILED
D:\get\eclipse\workspace\xml-forrest\build\dist\shbat\targets\site.xml:51:
Java
returned: 1
<broken-links>
<link message="No pipeline matched request: ext:forrest">ext:forrest</link>
<link
message="D:\get\lenya-site\src\documentation\content\xdocs\samples\sample.xml
(Das System kann den angegebenen Pfad nicht
finden)">samples/sample.html</link>
<link
message="D:\get\lenya-site\src\documentation\content\xdocs\docs\components\publication\URIParametrizer.png
(Das System kann die angegebene Datei nicht
finden)">docs/components/publication/URIParametrizer.png</link>
</broken-links>
I will also report back tomorrow on that.
------------
I still have to look into the skin conf.
thorsten
> Thanks
>
> Michi
>
--
<thorsten>
<name>Thorsten Scherler</name>
<country>Spain</country>
<@mail> thorsten@apache.org</...@mail>
<@cocoon-WIKI>
http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=Scherler</...@cocoon-WIKI>
<http>http://www.target-x.de</http>
</thorsten>
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Re: IRC versus mailing list, reminder ;-)
Posted by Rolf Kulemann <ma...@rolf-kulemann.com>.
On Sat, 2004-05-15 at 07:48, Rolf Kulemann wrote:
> On Sat, 2004-05-15 at 03:28, Tim Larson wrote:
> > On Sat, May 15, 2004 at 02:01:58AM +0200, Michael Wechner wrote:
> > > Sorry for being a pain in the *, but I really think
> > > we should communicate much more over mailing lists than IRC,
> > > e.g. the results of the first day of the sprint/hackathon
> >
> > Just an idea...some projects find balance by combining the live
> > interaction of IRC with a more permanent, searchable record kept
> > via Wiki. However, someone has to be sure to record the summaries
> > on the wiki for this to work.
>
> Here it is :)
>
> http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaRepository
We will post a more detailed summary of the sprint today.
--
RolfKulemann
"There is inherently no silverbullet" - F.Brooks
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Re: IRC versus mailing list, reminder ;-)
Posted by Rolf Kulemann <ma...@rolf-kulemann.com>.
On Sat, 2004-05-15 at 03:28, Tim Larson wrote:
> On Sat, May 15, 2004 at 02:01:58AM +0200, Michael Wechner wrote:
> > Sorry for being a pain in the *, but I really think
> > we should communicate much more over mailing lists than IRC,
> > e.g. the results of the first day of the sprint/hackathon
>
> Just an idea...some projects find balance by combining the live
> interaction of IRC with a more permanent, searchable record kept
> via Wiki. However, someone has to be sure to record the summaries
> on the wiki for this to work.
Here it is :)
http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaRepository
>
> --Tim Larson
>
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--
Rolf Kulemann
Thompson, if he is to be believed, has sampled the entire
rainbow of legal and illegal drugs in heroic efforts to feel better
than he does.
As for the truth about his health: I have asked around about
it. I am told that he appears to be strong and rosy, and steadily
sane. But we will be doing what he wants us to do, I think, if we
consider his exterior a sort of Dorian Gray facade. Inwardly, he is
being eaten alive by tinhorn politicians.
The disease is fatal. There is no known cure. The most we can
do for the poor devil, it seems to me, is to name his disease in his
honor. From this moment on, let all those who feel that Americans can
be as easily led to beauty as to ugliness, to truth as to public
relations, to joy as to bitterness, be said to be suffering from Hunter
Thompson's disease. I don't have it this morning. It comes and goes.
This morning I don't have Hunter Thompson's disease.
-- Kurt Vonnegut Jr. on Dr. Hunter S. Thompson: Excerpt
from "A Political Disease", Vonnegut's review of "Fear
and Loathing: On the Campaign Trail '72"
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Re: IRC versus mailing list, reminder ;-)
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Scherler, Thorsten wrote:
> Tim Larson wrote:
>
>> On Sat, May 15, 2004 at 02:01:58AM +0200, Michael Wechner wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry for being a pain in the *, but I really think
>>> we should communicate much more over mailing lists than IRC,
>>
>
> Jupp, i followed today an interesting chat in german ;-) Nice. ...but
> that should be searchable (I see your point there Michael).
>
> ...but via e.g. gmane the mailinglist isn't really searchable either.
> I used Marc but ... you know.
>
> The wiki and our site should be the best place to look up. We need to
> work on that IMO as well.
>
> [...]
>
>>
>> Just an idea...some projects find balance by combining the live
>> interaction of IRC with a more permanent, searchable record kept
>> via Wiki.
>
>
> Is there are a way that could be automated? I mean that would the
> easiest way! Can you store irc chats in logs?
yes, one can setup an "IRC bot". As soon as I find some time I would like
to setup one on OSCOM and aggregrate the content into the CMS matrix.
I think one could use
http://usefulinc.com/chump/
but if someone knows a better alternative, please let me know.
The same could be done for mailing lists (e.g. using eyebrowse could be
enhanced
such it produces XML)
Michi
> Is it legal to analyse them and extract wikis out of them. ...and how
> to do it (preferable with least interaction with a dev)?
>
> I recorded the above mentioned chat to
> http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Edit.jsp?page=LenyaUsecaseUniErlangen. The
> link is edit mode because the live mode is not formated. I just copy'n
> paste it so far.
>
> However, someone has to be sure to record the summaries
>
>> on the wiki for this to work.
>>
> That is the problem: who should feel responsable to record the IRC?
> The one that helps? Than the dev is screwed. He will spend all day
> writting wikis or eMails. ...if he would do it!
>
>> --Tim Larson
>
>
> my 2cents
> thorsten
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: IRC versus mailing list, reminder ;-)
Posted by Tim Larson <ti...@keow.org>.
On Sun, May 16, 2004 at 10:45:32AM +0200, Michael Wechner wrote:
> Tim Larson wrote:
>
> >I usually ask the person I help to add a summary to the wiki, and then
> >just do a quick check over it to make sure their entry captured the
> >solution correctly. This way the burden is placed on the person asking
> >for help, they get experience editing the wiki, and they become more
> >comfortable with adding improvements to the wiki.
>
> sounds like a good practice. Have all people followed your
> request at a time?
As far as I remember, yes. People are thankful for getting help, and
they usually have to write down a private note about their solution
somewhere anyway, so instead directing them to an appropriate wiki page
to publicly record the note does not make much more work for them.
--Tim Larson
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Re: IRC versus mailing list, reminder ;-)
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Tim Larson wrote:
>
>I usually ask the person I help to add a summary to the wiki, and then
>just do a quick check over it to make sure their entry captured the
>solution correctly. This way the burden is placed on the person asking
>for help, they get experience editing the wiki, and they become more
>comfortable with adding improvements to the wiki.
>
>
sounds like a good practice. Have all people followed your
request at a time?
Michi
>--Tim Larson
>
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>
>
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: IRC versus mailing list, reminder ;-)
Posted by Tim Larson <ti...@keow.org>.
On Sun, May 16, 2004 at 02:03:54AM +0200, Scherler, Thorsten wrote:
</snip>
> I recorded the above mentioned chat to
> http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Edit.jsp?page=LenyaUsecaseUniErlangen. The
> link is edit mode because the live mode is not formated. I just copy'n
> paste it so far.
Copy-and-paste is much better than nothing. It makes the solution
searchable, and later it can be polished _if_ anyone feels the need.
> However, someone has to be sure to record the summaries
> >on the wiki for this to work.
> >
> That is the problem: who should feel responsable to record the IRC? The
> one that helps? Than the dev is screwed. He will spend all day writting
> wikis or eMails. ...if he would do it!
I usually ask the person I help to add a summary to the wiki, and then
just do a quick check over it to make sure their entry captured the
solution correctly. This way the burden is placed on the person asking
for help, they get experience editing the wiki, and they become more
comfortable with adding improvements to the wiki.
--Tim Larson
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Re: IRC versus mailing list, reminder ;-)
Posted by "Scherler, Thorsten" <th...@apache.org>.
Tim Larson wrote:
> On Sat, May 15, 2004 at 02:01:58AM +0200, Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>>Sorry for being a pain in the *, but I really think
>>we should communicate much more over mailing lists than IRC,
Jupp, i followed today an interesting chat in german ;-) Nice. ...but
that should be searchable (I see your point there Michael).
...but via e.g. gmane the mailinglist isn't really searchable either. I
used Marc but ... you know.
The wiki and our site should be the best place to look up. We need to
work on that IMO as well.
[...]
>
> Just an idea...some projects find balance by combining the live
> interaction of IRC with a more permanent, searchable record kept
> via Wiki.
Is there are a way that could be automated? I mean that would the
easiest way! Can you store irc chats in logs? Is it legal to analyse
them and extract wikis out of them. ...and how to do it (preferable with
least interaction with a dev)?
I recorded the above mentioned chat to
http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Edit.jsp?page=LenyaUsecaseUniErlangen. The
link is edit mode because the live mode is not formated. I just copy'n
paste it so far.
However, someone has to be sure to record the summaries
> on the wiki for this to work.
>
That is the problem: who should feel responsable to record the IRC? The
one that helps? Than the dev is screwed. He will spend all day writting
wikis or eMails. ...if he would do it!
> --Tim Larson
my 2cents
thorsten
--
<thorsten>
<name>Thorsten Scherler</name>
<country>Spain</country>
<@mail> thorsten@apache.org</...@mail>
<@cocoon-WIKI>
http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=Scherler</...@cocoon-WIKI>
<http>http://www.target-x.de</http>
</thorsten>
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Re: IRC versus mailing list, reminder ;-)
Posted by Rolf Kulemann <ma...@rolf-kulemann.com>.
On Sat, 2004-05-15 at 18:18, Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> Michael Wechner wrote:
>
> > For instance I don't have a clue what has been discussed today during
> > the hackathon. Sure I can look up the summaries, but where are they
> > (well, I know or
> > at least I think I know where they are)?
>
> the discussions are summarized on the wiki which beats a long thread on
> the mailing list. we didnt come together here to sit in front of our
> email clients. for your convenience:
>
> http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaRepository
and
http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaSprintZurich20040514
BTW: I have updated the Repository WIKI some hours ago.
On the sprint we had two groups, one which did mainly Repository stuff
and one group doing Lenya release stuff for 1.2. A summary of group two
is missing. I would do it, but I dunno best what that group did.
--
RolfKulemann
"There is inherently no silverbullet" - F.Brooks
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Re: IRC versus mailing list, reminder ;-)
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>> For instance I don't have a clue what has been discussed today during
>> the hackathon. Sure I can look up the summaries, but where are they
>> (well, I know or
>> at least I think I know where they are)?
>
>
> the discussions are summarized on the wiki which beats a long thread
> on the mailing list. we didnt come together here to sit in front of
> our email clients. for your convenience:
but in front of your IRC channel ;-)
>
> http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaRepository
thanks for the pointer
>
>> If we want to establish a worldwide community then we have to
>> acknowledge this
>> by letting people participate and making decisions in an asynchronous
>> manner.
>
>
> give it a break.
I will, but I will be back ;-)
>
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: IRC versus mailing list, reminder ;-)
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> For instance I don't have a clue what has been discussed today during
> the hackathon. Sure I can look up the summaries, but where are they
> (well, I know or
> at least I think I know where they are)?
the discussions are summarized on the wiki which beats a long thread on
the mailing list. we didnt come together here to sit in front of our
email clients. for your convenience:
http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaRepository
> If we want to establish a worldwide community then we have to
> acknowledge this
> by letting people participate and making decisions in an asynchronous
> manner.
give it a break.
--
Gregor J. Rothfuss
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
gregor.rothfuss@wyona.com gregor@apache.org
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Re: IRC versus mailing list, reminder ;-)
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>> but even then, the process of how something is envolving is very
>> important
>> and mailing lists are capturing that process in a quite efficient way,
>> whereas within IRC is much more noise and logging won't solve this
>> issue 100%
>
>
> not true. unless people respect netiquette, write summaries etc
> mailing lists are noise and the results are forgotten.
I haven't done any statistics and I don't know of any, but I would
definitely
argue that IRC is in general more noisy than mailing lists.
Mailing lists are generally being archived and indexed by search engines,
and hence not forgotton.
Most hints for problems I need to solve I get by searching the mailing
list archives.
Also IRC is not threaded, whereas mailing lists are.
Maybe I shouldn't have called this thread "IRC versus mailing list", because
it's not versus and I am certainly not against using IRC, but as Tim pointed
out it's about finding the right balance.
For instance I don't have a clue what has been discussed today during
the hackathon. Sure I can look up the summaries, but where are they
(well, I know or
at least I think I know where they are)?
If we want to establish a worldwide community then we have to
acknowledge this
by letting people participate and making decisions in an asynchronous
manner.
Thanks
Michi
>
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: IRC versus mailing list, reminder ;-)
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> but even then, the process of how something is envolving is very important
> and mailing lists are capturing that process in a quite efficient way,
> whereas within IRC is much more noise and logging won't solve this
> issue 100%
not true. unless people respect netiquette, write summaries etc mailing
lists are noise and the results are forgotten.
--
Gregor J. Rothfuss
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
gregor.rothfuss@wyona.com gregor@apache.org
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Re: IRC versus mailing list, reminder ;-)
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Tim Larson wrote:
>On Sat, May 15, 2004 at 02:01:58AM +0200, Michael Wechner wrote:
>
>
>>Sorry for being a pain in the *, but I really think
>>we should communicate much more over mailing lists than IRC,
>>e.g. the results of the first day of the sprint/hackathon
>>
>>
>
>Just an idea...some projects find balance by combining the live
>interaction of IRC with a more permanent, searchable record kept
>via Wiki. However, someone has to be sure to record the summaries
>on the wiki for this to work.
>
>
right, but someone still needs to tell the rest of the world about it ;-)
but even then, the process of how something is envolving is very important
and mailing lists are capturing that process in a quite efficient way,
whereas within IRC is much more noise and logging won't solve this
issue 100%
So, indeed it's finding the right balance ...
Michi
>--Tim Larson
>
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>
>
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: IRC versus mailing list, reminder ;-)
Posted by Tim Larson <ti...@keow.org>.
On Sat, May 15, 2004 at 02:01:58AM +0200, Michael Wechner wrote:
> Sorry for being a pain in the *, but I really think
> we should communicate much more over mailing lists than IRC,
> e.g. the results of the first day of the sprint/hackathon
Just an idea...some projects find balance by combining the live
interaction of IRC with a more permanent, searchable record kept
via Wiki. However, someone has to be sure to record the summaries
on the wiki for this to work.
--Tim Larson
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Re: IRC versus mailing list, reminder ;-)
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> Sorry for being a pain in the *, but I really think
> we should communicate much more over mailing lists than IRC,
> e.g. the results of the first day of the sprint/hackathon
http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaRepository
--
Gregor J. Rothfuss
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
gregor.rothfuss@wyona.com gregor@apache.org
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