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Posted to dev@lenya.apache.org by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org> on 2006/06/14 12:42:38 UTC
Private Meta data (was Re: new LenyaMetaDataGenerator and new
namespace?)
El mar, 13-06-2006 a las 16:58 +0200, Andreas Hartmann escribió:
> Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
> > Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> >> Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
> >>> what i do care about is stopping people from ever again introducing
> >>> multi-dimensional, semantically overloaded metadata tables (!) with
> >>> built-in extensibility (!!) represented as single strings (!!!)
> >>> without so much as a passing regard for documenting this whole pile
> >>> of shit anywhere, and then having to use (shudder!) regexes to clean
> >>> up the mess.
> >>>
> >>> workflowVersion in its current state is an abomination unto $deity
> >>> and must die.
> >>> fast.
> >>> violently.
> >>
> >> Actually I don't really understand this concern. The workflowVersion
> >> meta data are accessed only by the workflow engine, they are strictly
> >> private and I see no need for applying any regular expressions on
> >> them. If you need workflow information, ask the workflow engine ...
> >
> >
...
> > my starting point to achieve this goal was the LenyaMetaDataGenerator,
> > which was written by a seasoned contributor to lenya, so i figured that
> > this was the most obvious and consistent way to get at the data i need.
>
> No, this would be the wrong way. Unfortunately the generator publishes
> the workflow meta data, which should be avoided. We could introduce
> private meta data, or maybe it would be better to introduce a whole
> new concept, e.g. internal document properties. But this would make
> the code more complex.
I totally agree that we need private meta data and would like to remove
the lenya:internal data block from the generator since it is causing
many confusions and this private data should not be exposed to xml.
salu2
--
thorsten
"Together we stand, divided we fall!"
Hey you (Pink Floyd)
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Re: Private Meta data (was Re: new LenyaMetaDataGenerator and new
namespace?)
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Joern Nettingsmeier wrote:
> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>> Joern Nettingsmeier wrote:
>>> if we go with the input module approach only and ditch the generator, we
>>> need very good documentation which must be updated frequently. the
>>> generator just outputs all available fields, so it always represents the
>>> current range of possibilities without requiring updates...
>> Another approach would be templating.
>>
>> Use some specific elements / attributes:
>>
>> <p>Published by <workflow:lastUser event="publish"/> ... </p>
>>
>> and fill in values using a transformer:
>>
>> <map:transform type="workflow-template"/>
>>
>>
>> This way, you don't have to pass the parameters explicitely to the XSL.
>
> nice!
> this would provide a really intuitive, consistent interface for users. i
> don't know how to implement transformers, but i would like to see
> someone do it :-D i'll be your alpha tester :)
OK - if you're interested in this functionality, would you mind
filing a bug, maybe with a syntax proposal, so that the idea
doesn't get lost? Thanks a lot!
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
andreas.hartmann@wyona.com andreas@apache.org
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Re: Private Meta data (was Re: new LenyaMetaDataGenerator and new
namespace?)
Posted by Joern Nettingsmeier <po...@uni-due.de>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Joern Nettingsmeier wrote:
>> if we go with the input module approach only and ditch the generator, we
>> need very good documentation which must be updated frequently. the
>> generator just outputs all available fields, so it always represents the
>> current range of possibilities without requiring updates...
>
> Another approach would be templating.
>
> Use some specific elements / attributes:
>
> <p>Published by <workflow:lastUser event="publish"/> ... </p>
>
> and fill in values using a transformer:
>
> <map:transform type="workflow-template"/>
>
>
> This way, you don't have to pass the parameters explicitely to the XSL.
nice!
this would provide a really intuitive, consistent interface for users. i
don't know how to implement transformers, but i would like to see
someone do it :-D i'll be your alpha tester :)
--
"Án nýrra verka, án nútimans, hættir fortíðin að vekja áhuga."
"Without new works, without the present the past will cease to be of
interest."
- Ásmundur Sveinsson (1893-1982)
--
Jörn Nettingsmeier, EDV-Administrator
Institut für Politikwissenschaft
Universität Duisburg-Essen, Standort Duisburg
Mail: pol-admin@uni-due.de, Telefon: 0203/379-2736
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Re: Private Meta data (was Re: new LenyaMetaDataGenerator and new
namespace?)
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Joern Nettingsmeier wrote:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
>
>> I totally agree that we need private meta data and would like to remove
>> the lenya:internal data block from the generator since it is causing
>> many confusions and this private data should not be exposed to xml.
>
> well, i'm using it in the main site aggregator.
> the advantage of a generator that spits out all the available metadata
> at once (as opposed to singe-value input module calls like andreas
> suggests) is that a) you see what's available at a glance and b) you
> avoid having to pass several parameters to your xsl transformer which is
> always kludgy, since both the sitemap and the stylesheet have to know
> about those parameters.
>
> i see the architectural benefits of andreas' approach, but it's not as
> easy to learn to use as the current all-in-one generator. and imho
> ease-of-use on the sitemap level is currently under-valued in lenya. the
> sitemaps are the primary api for most new users, and they need to be
> lean and mean.
>
> if we go with the input module approach only and ditch the generator, we
> need very good documentation which must be updated frequently. the
> generator just outputs all available fields, so it always represents the
> current range of possibilities without requiring updates...
Another approach would be templating.
Use some specific elements / attributes:
<p>Published by <workflow:lastUser event="publish"/> ... </p>
and fill in values using a transformer:
<map:transform type="workflow-template"/>
This way, you don't have to pass the parameters explicitely to the XSL.
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
andreas.hartmann@wyona.com andreas@apache.org
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Re: Private Meta data (was Re: new LenyaMetaDataGenerator and new
namespace?)
Posted by Joern Nettingsmeier <po...@uni-due.de>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> I totally agree that we need private meta data and would like to remove
> the lenya:internal data block from the generator since it is causing
> many confusions and this private data should not be exposed to xml.
well, i'm using it in the main site aggregator.
the advantage of a generator that spits out all the available metadata
at once (as opposed to singe-value input module calls like andreas
suggests) is that a) you see what's available at a glance and b) you
avoid having to pass several parameters to your xsl transformer which is
always kludgy, since both the sitemap and the stylesheet have to know
about those parameters.
i see the architectural benefits of andreas' approach, but it's not as
easy to learn to use as the current all-in-one generator. and imho
ease-of-use on the sitemap level is currently under-valued in lenya. the
sitemaps are the primary api for most new users, and they need to be
lean and mean.
if we go with the input module approach only and ditch the generator, we
need very good documentation which must be updated frequently. the
generator just outputs all available fields, so it always represents the
current range of possibilities without requiring updates...
--
"Án nýrra verka, án nútimans, hættir fortíðin að vekja áhuga."
"Without new works, without the present the past will cease to be of
interest."
- Ásmundur Sveinsson (1893-1982)
--
Jörn Nettingsmeier, EDV-Administrator
Institut für Politikwissenschaft
Universität Duisburg-Essen, Standort Duisburg
Mail: pol-admin@uni-due.de, Telefon: 0203/379-2736
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