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Posted to dev@geronimo.apache.org by Jacek Laskowski <jl...@apache.org> on 2005/11/17 15:48:25 UTC
Re: [LONG] - Tomcat Examples in Geronimo - needed for v1
Dave Colasurdo wrote:
> GERONIMO-1087 and GERONIMO-1088 JIRAs were opened to introduce the
> Tomcat examples into Geronimo. I believe it is important to get these
> introduced into the distributions (as default samples) for v1.
>
> There are a few different ways to approach this:
>
> 1) Ask Tomcat to create a war file for servlet-examples and jsp-examples
> and post it to http://www.ibiblio.org/maven/tomcat/
> We pick up this dependency during our build and include it in the
> appropriate distributions.
During the first days of the task of Tomcat embedding into Geronimo, I
had the same concern about Tomcat's jars being available in Maven repo
(i.e. ibiblio.org). I asked Tomcat developers to upload the jars
Geronimo uses (c.f.
http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?listName=tomcat-dev@jakarta.apache.org&msgId=2020897).
So, whenever a new Tomcat version is released, its jars are published to
ibiblio.org manually. There's no process to do it automatically.
That's the only way to get around it. Any ASF committer can do it, just
create a JIRA item and one will pick it up.
> -Dave-
Jacek
Re: - Tomcat Examples in Geronimo - needed for v1
Posted by Jeff Genender <jg...@apache.org>.
Aww shoot...you are right. My mistake...Ok...I will get it fixed.
Thanks,
Jeff
Dave Colasurdo wrote:
> Jeff Genender wrote:
>> Ok...
>>
>> I have placed the following files:
>>
>> geronimo-jsp-examples-TOMCAT5.5.12.war
>> geronimo-servlet-examples-TOMCAT5.5.12.war
>>
>> They should be picked up and a part of ibiblio in a few hours. They
>> will be in the geronimo repository in the war directory.
>>
>
> Jeff,
>
> The file name in ibiblio is geronimo-servlet-examples-TOMCAT5.5.12.war
>
> The property "tomcat_version" has a value of 5.5.12
>
> Using the following:
>
> <dependency>
> <groupId>geronimo</groupId>
> <artifactId>geronimo-servlet-examples-TOMCAT</artifactId>
> <version>${tomcat_version}</version>
> <type>war</type>
> <properties>
> <installer>true</installer>
> </properties>
> </dependency>
>
>
> Results in an extra "dash" (geronimo-servlet-examples-TOMCAT-5.5.12.war)
>
> Of course, I can define a new property with the value "TOMCAT-5.5.12"..
>
> Though, I suspect it may be better to rename the file to
> geronimo-servlet-examples-5.5.12 or
> geronimo-servlet-examples-TOMCAT-5.5.12 so that we can use the existing
> property.
>
> What do you think?
>
>
> Thanks
> -Dave-
Re: - Tomcat Examples in Geronimo - needed for v1
Posted by Jeff Genender <jg...@apache.org>.
Ok fixed...on next sync the files will be:
geronimo-jsp-examples-tomcat-5.5.12.war
geronimo-servlet-examples-tomcat-5.5.12.war
Jeff
Dave Colasurdo wrote:
> Jeff Genender wrote:
>> Ok...
>>
>> I have placed the following files:
>>
>> geronimo-jsp-examples-TOMCAT5.5.12.war
>> geronimo-servlet-examples-TOMCAT5.5.12.war
>>
>> They should be picked up and a part of ibiblio in a few hours. They
>> will be in the geronimo repository in the war directory.
>>
>
> Jeff,
>
> The file name in ibiblio is geronimo-servlet-examples-TOMCAT5.5.12.war
>
> The property "tomcat_version" has a value of 5.5.12
>
> Using the following:
>
> <dependency>
> <groupId>geronimo</groupId>
> <artifactId>geronimo-servlet-examples-TOMCAT</artifactId>
> <version>${tomcat_version}</version>
> <type>war</type>
> <properties>
> <installer>true</installer>
> </properties>
> </dependency>
>
>
> Results in an extra "dash" (geronimo-servlet-examples-TOMCAT-5.5.12.war)
>
> Of course, I can define a new property with the value "TOMCAT-5.5.12"..
>
> Though, I suspect it may be better to rename the file to
> geronimo-servlet-examples-5.5.12 or
> geronimo-servlet-examples-TOMCAT-5.5.12 so that we can use the existing
> property.
>
> What do you think?
>
>
> Thanks
> -Dave-
Re: - Tomcat Examples in Geronimo - needed for v1
Posted by Dave Colasurdo <da...@earthlink.net>.
Jeff Genender wrote:
> Ok...
>
> I have placed the following files:
>
> geronimo-jsp-examples-TOMCAT5.5.12.war
> geronimo-servlet-examples-TOMCAT5.5.12.war
>
> They should be picked up and a part of ibiblio in a few hours. They
> will be in the geronimo repository in the war directory.
>
Jeff,
The file name in ibiblio is geronimo-servlet-examples-TOMCAT5.5.12.war
The property "tomcat_version" has a value of 5.5.12
Using the following:
<dependency>
<groupId>geronimo</groupId>
<artifactId>geronimo-servlet-examples-TOMCAT</artifactId>
<version>${tomcat_version}</version>
<type>war</type>
<properties>
<installer>true</installer>
</properties>
</dependency>
Results in an extra "dash" (geronimo-servlet-examples-TOMCAT-5.5.12.war)
Of course, I can define a new property with the value "TOMCAT-5.5.12"..
Though, I suspect it may be better to rename the file to
geronimo-servlet-examples-5.5.12 or
geronimo-servlet-examples-TOMCAT-5.5.12 so that we can use the existing
property.
What do you think?
Thanks
-Dave-
Re: [LONG] - Tomcat Examples in Geronimo - needed for v1
Posted by Jeff Genender <jg...@apache.org>.
Ok...
I have placed the following files:
geronimo-jsp-examples-TOMCAT5.5.12.war
geronimo-servlet-examples-TOMCAT5.5.12.war
They should be picked up and a part of ibiblio in a few hours. They
will be in the geronimo repository in the war directory.
Jeff
Dave Colasurdo wrote:
> Jeff Genender wrote:
>>
> > IMHO, we have 3 choices with including these wars in our repo. Either
>> rename them in the assembly to servlet-examples.war and
>> jsp-examples.war (i.e. strip off the geronimo-1.0 from the name),
>> include external plan files that includes a <context-root> element, or
>> I can include a proper geronimo-web.xml inside the war.
>>
> I like the first option (rename them in the assembly).
>
>> If we can get this decided soon, I can get these jars into our ibiblio
>> repo today.
>>
>
> Thanks Jeff!!!
>
>
>
>
Re: [LONG] - Tomcat Examples in Geronimo - needed for v1
Posted by Dave Colasurdo <da...@earthlink.net>.
Jeff Genender wrote:
>
> IMHO, we have 3 choices with including these wars in our repo. Either
> rename them in the assembly to servlet-examples.war and jsp-examples.war
> (i.e. strip off the geronimo-1.0 from the name), include external plan
> files that includes a <context-root> element, or I can include a proper
> geronimo-web.xml inside the war.
>
I like the first option (rename them in the assembly).
> If we can get this decided soon, I can get these jars into our ibiblio
> repo today.
>
Thanks Jeff!!!
Re: [LONG] - Tomcat Examples in Geronimo - needed for v1
Posted by Jeff Genender <jg...@apache.org>.
Dave Colasurdo wrote:
> The source for the samples are included in the WARs. They can be pulled
> into any IDE.
Thats not true. Don't assume everyone uses Eclipse or Intellij...that's
a bad assumption to make.
> Geronimo shouldn't fork Tomcat's examples and therefore
> forever own the build and maintenance merely because we want to consume
> the WAR files. If a user wants to dig deeper into the examples, we
> should give clear credit to Tomcat as being ground zero for the samples.
But we are forking it by including the WAR files in our ibiblio repo.
The mere fact the source is in the wars and we are now including our own
version of it (packaged up of course)...it's a fork (a binary one)...so
I don't think this is a good argument.
However, the point is moot, and with that said, I am cool with not
creating a source area...since the code is in the wars and accessible
via the browser.
IMHO, we have 3 choices with including these wars in our repo. Either
rename them in the assembly to servlet-examples.war and jsp-examples.war
(i.e. strip off the geronimo-1.0 from the name), include external plan
files that includes a <context-root> element, or I can include a proper
geronimo-web.xml inside the war.
If we can get this decided soon, I can get these jars into our ibiblio
repo today.
Jeff
>
> -Dave-
Re: [LONG] - Tomcat Examples in Geronimo - needed for v1
Posted by Dave Colasurdo <da...@earthlink.net>.
Jeff Genender wrote:
>
> Now...we do have a solution.
>
> We can place their jars in our repo, so we own those versions (i.e.
> servlet-examples-geroniomo-1.0.war) and then they clearly won't affect
> other Tomcat users.
>
+1
I assume we are talking about placing their WARs in our repo..
This approach has the following benefits:
- No need to maintain and build the tomcat example source. Remember we
have no current plans to extend these examples. We are merely a consumer.
- We can name it whatever we want (or create a deployment plan) without
affecting any other project.
- We can make minor text changes in the html file w/o forking the entire
example code base.
- We only resync the samples (i.e. WARs) when we provide a new version
of Geronimo(v1, v1.1, v2..)
- We can have a simple expedient resolution.
> Or...just add the source to our repo and roll our own. These are just
> examples, so I don't see any problem with this.
>
> Well keep this in mind...and we need to really consider this. Because
> of the very nature that they are examples...people will want to see the
> code. I would think that if we are including the Tomcat examples, we
> should include the code in some form. I think its not very
> user/developer friendly to include example wars, then tell people if
> they want to see them, please go to the Tomcat site and download their
> tar ball.
>
-1
The source for the samples are included in the WARs. They can be pulled
into any IDE. Geronimo shouldn't fork Tomcat's examples and therefore
forever own the build and maintenance merely because we want to consume
the WAR files. If a user wants to dig deeper into the examples, we
should give clear credit to Tomcat as being ground zero for the samples.
-Dave-
Re: [LONG] - Tomcat Examples in Geronimo - needed for v1
Posted by Jeff Genender <jg...@apache.org>.
Jacek Laskowski wrote:
> Jeff Genender wrote:
>
>>> Well, no exactly if you supply geronimo-web.xml in both. I'm pretty
>>> sure it won't make any harm to anyone who would like to use them,
>>> does it?
>>
>>
>> Yes. If someone uses them outside of Geronimo, this causes a problem.
>> i.e. If someone writes their own embedded Tomcat in some other
>> product, they will have this as an issue. The "fix" for this is to
>> include a Tomcat context.xml with the wars that sets up the proper
>> context-root.
>
> Hey Jeff,
>
> Oh, come on. We won't satisfy all wishes and won't likely know them all
> in advance. I understand it as a Maven naming convention, actually. If
> someone bothers to 'write their own embedded Tomcat in some other
> product', (s)he will have more troubles along the way and I would not
> call it an issue.
I hear you...but its their ball and their repo, and therefore they
control the game, and they also get the JIRA issues, not us. We can
open a JIRA and ask them to please include a context.xml with their
examples, which would fix this all around. But at the end of the day,
its their decision.
>> We can place their jars in our repo, so we own those versions (i.e.
>> servlet-examples-geroniomo-1.0.war) and then they clearly won't affect
>> other Tomcat users.
>
> It sounds as a possible solution and I wouldn't be such a strong
> proponent of the earlier proposal if others find it workable.
Under this scenario, its our ball and our repo...and it affects nobody
else. I would agree that we could get them to put a context.xml in the
examples we don't need to go there.
But...read further...
>
>> Or...just add the source to our repo and roll our own. These are just
>> examples, so I don't see any problem with this.
>
> -1. We've got lots of sources to maintain (and more are on their way)
> and sync'ing these samples with Tomcat's repo solely to add two simple
> plans would introduce an unnecessary burden to us.
Well keep this in mind...and we need to really consider this. Because
of the very nature that they are examples...people will want to see the
code. I would think that if we are including the Tomcat examples, we
should include the code in some form. I think its not very
user/developer friendly to include example wars, then tell people if
they want to see them, please go to the Tomcat site and download their
tar ball.
>
>> Jeff
>
> Jacek
Re: [LONG] - Tomcat Examples in Geronimo - needed for v1
Posted by Jacek Laskowski <jl...@apache.org>.
Jeff Genender wrote:
>> Well, no exactly if you supply geronimo-web.xml in both. I'm pretty
>> sure it won't make any harm to anyone who would like to use them, does
>> it?
>
>
> Yes. If someone uses them outside of Geronimo, this causes a problem.
> i.e. If someone writes their own embedded Tomcat in some other product,
> they will have this as an issue. The "fix" for this is to include a
> Tomcat context.xml with the wars that sets up the proper context-root.
Hey Jeff,
Oh, come on. We won't satisfy all wishes and won't likely know them all
in advance. I understand it as a Maven naming convention, actually. If
someone bothers to 'write their own embedded Tomcat in some other
product', (s)he will have more troubles along the way and I would not
call it an issue.
> Now...we do have a solution.
And what was the issue? ;)
> We can place their jars in our repo, so we own those versions (i.e.
> servlet-examples-geroniomo-1.0.war) and then they clearly won't affect
> other Tomcat users.
It sounds as a possible solution and I wouldn't be such a strong
proponent of the earlier proposal if others find it workable.
> Or...just add the source to our repo and roll our own. These are just
> examples, so I don't see any problem with this.
-1. We've got lots of sources to maintain (and more are on their way)
and sync'ing these samples with Tomcat's repo solely to add two simple
plans would introduce an unnecessary burden to us.
> Jeff
Jacek
Re: [LONG] - Tomcat Examples in Geronimo - needed for v1
Posted by Jeff Genender <jg...@apache.org>.
Jacek Laskowski wrote:
> Jeff Genender wrote:
>> Ok...I can do #1, but we have a problem.
>>
>> I could get the servlet-examples-5.5.12.war and
>> jsp-examples-5.5.12.war to the ibiblio repo...but what happens is,
>> since we have no deployment plan with them, the default URL will become:
>>
>> http://localhost:8080/servlet-examples-5.5.12/
>>
>> and
>>
>> http://localhost:8080/jsp-examples-5.5.12/
>
> Well, no exactly if you supply geronimo-web.xml in both. I'm pretty sure
> it won't make any harm to anyone who would like to use them, does it?
Yes. If someone uses them outside of Geronimo, this causes a problem.
i.e. If someone writes their own embedded Tomcat in some other product,
they will have this as an issue. The "fix" for this is to include a
Tomcat context.xml with the wars that sets up the proper context-root.
Now...we do have a solution.
We can place their jars in our repo, so we own those versions (i.e.
servlet-examples-geroniomo-1.0.war) and then they clearly won't affect
other Tomcat users.
Or...just add the source to our repo and roll our own. These are just
examples, so I don't see any problem with this.
Jeff
>
>> Jeff
>
> Jacek
Re: [LONG] - Tomcat Examples in Geronimo - needed for v1
Posted by Jacek Laskowski <jl...@apache.org>.
Jeff Genender wrote:
> Ok...I can do #1, but we have a problem.
>
> I could get the servlet-examples-5.5.12.war and jsp-examples-5.5.12.war
> to the ibiblio repo...but what happens is, since we have no deployment
> plan with them, the default URL will become:
>
> http://localhost:8080/servlet-examples-5.5.12/
>
> and
>
> http://localhost:8080/jsp-examples-5.5.12/
Well, no exactly if you supply geronimo-web.xml in both. I'm pretty sure
it won't make any harm to anyone who would like to use them, does it?
> Jeff
Jacek
Re: [LONG] - Tomcat Examples in Geronimo - needed for v1
Posted by Jeff Genender <jg...@apache.org>.
Dave Colasurdo wrote:
>
>
> Jeff Genender wrote:
>> Because its not just us that affects this. Its anyone outside of
>> geronimo who uses these jars in the fashion that they are named. It
>> will likely cause them more JIRA issues for why their example wars
>> don't work, with the answer being the name of the war is in the URL.
>> So it may be a negative for them. We to get their input on this
>> before doing it.
>>
>
> I assumed that the version-level being part of the war filename is just
> part of the landscape when using ibiblio as a remote maven repository.
>
It is. But the servlet deployers use the name of the war/jar. We also
do this in Geronimo. Tomcat uses context.xml to get around this and we
use geronimo-web.xml.
> Consumers of the repository need to account for this and provide a
> mechnism for overriding the context-root for the application when
> appropriate. My $.02..
They have a method for overriding this...its called the context.xml
file. They just don't include it with the examples.
>
> Of course, as you point out, the opinion that really counts is the
> Tomcat community. Have/can you approach them with the issue?
I have not approached them on this point.
>
> Thanks for helping out here!
>
> -Dave-
>
>
>
>
Re: [LONG] - Tomcat Examples in Geronimo - needed for v1
Posted by Dave Colasurdo <da...@earthlink.net>.
Jeff Genender wrote:
> Because its not just us that affects this. Its anyone outside of
> geronimo who uses these jars in the fashion that they are named. It
> will likely cause them more JIRA issues for why their example wars don't
> work, with the answer being the name of the war is in the URL. So it
> may be a negative for them. We to get their input on this before doing it.
>
I assumed that the version-level being part of the war filename is just
part of the landscape when using ibiblio as a remote maven repository.
Consumers of the repository need to account for this and provide a
mechnism for overriding the context-root for the application when
appropriate. My $.02..
Of course, as you point out, the opinion that really counts is the
Tomcat community. Have/can you approach them with the issue?
Thanks for helping out here!
-Dave-
Re: [LONG] - Tomcat Examples in Geronimo - needed for v1
Posted by Jeff Genender <jg...@apache.org>.
Because its not just us that affects this. Its anyone outside of
geronimo who uses these jars in the fashion that they are named. It
will likely cause them more JIRA issues for why their example wars don't
work, with the answer being the name of the war is in the URL. So it
may be a negative for them. We to get their input on this before doing it.
Dave Colasurdo wrote:
>
>
> Jeff Genender wrote:
>> Ok...I can do #1, but we have a problem.
>>
>> I could get the servlet-examples-5.5.12.war and
>> jsp-examples-5.5.12.war to the ibiblio repo...but what happens is,
>> since we have no deployment plan with them, the default URL will become:
>>
>> http://localhost:8080/servlet-examples-5.5.12/
>>
>> and
>>
>> http://localhost:8080/jsp-examples-5.5.12/
>>
>> This obviously is an issue and I am not so sure the Tomcat guys would
>> be happy with this. So this may not be a decent solution.
>>
>
> Jeff,
>
> Can you please elaborate? Why can't we rename the wars after the
> dependencies get pulled in by the build or alternately create simple
> external deployment plans that specify the correct context-root?
>
> Thanks
> -Dave-
>
>
Re: [LONG] - Tomcat Examples in Geronimo - needed for v1
Posted by Dave Colasurdo <da...@earthlink.net>.
Jeff Genender wrote:
> Ok...I can do #1, but we have a problem.
>
> I could get the servlet-examples-5.5.12.war and jsp-examples-5.5.12.war
> to the ibiblio repo...but what happens is, since we have no deployment
> plan with them, the default URL will become:
>
> http://localhost:8080/servlet-examples-5.5.12/
>
> and
>
> http://localhost:8080/jsp-examples-5.5.12/
>
> This obviously is an issue and I am not so sure the Tomcat guys would be
> happy with this. So this may not be a decent solution.
>
Jeff,
Can you please elaborate? Why can't we rename the wars after the
dependencies get pulled in by the build or alternately create simple
external deployment plans that specify the correct context-root?
Thanks
-Dave-
Re: [LONG] - Tomcat Examples in Geronimo - needed for v1
Posted by Jeff Genender <jg...@apache.org>.
Ok...I can do #1, but we have a problem.
I could get the servlet-examples-5.5.12.war and jsp-examples-5.5.12.war
to the ibiblio repo...but what happens is, since we have no deployment
plan with them, the default URL will become:
http://localhost:8080/servlet-examples-5.5.12/
and
http://localhost:8080/jsp-examples-5.5.12/
This obviously is an issue and I am not so sure the Tomcat guys would be
happy with this. So this may not be a decent solution.
Jeff
Dave Colasurdo wrote:
> Jeff/Jacek,
>
> Thanks for the info... Anyone have an issue with pursuing this option?
> If not I will open the JIRA..
>
> -Dave-
>
>
> Jacek Laskowski wrote:
>> Dave Colasurdo wrote:
>>
>>> GERONIMO-1087 and GERONIMO-1088 JIRAs were opened to introduce the
>>> Tomcat examples into Geronimo. I believe it is important to get
>>> these introduced into the distributions (as default samples) for v1.
>>>
>>> There are a few different ways to approach this:
>>>
>>> 1) Ask Tomcat to create a war file for servlet-examples and
>>> jsp-examples and post it to http://www.ibiblio.org/maven/tomcat/
>>> We pick up this dependency during our build and include it in the
>>> appropriate distributions.
>>
>>
>> During the first days of the task of Tomcat embedding into Geronimo, I
>> had the same concern about Tomcat's jars being available in Maven repo
>> (i.e. ibiblio.org). I asked Tomcat developers to upload the jars
>> Geronimo uses (c.f.
>> http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?listName=tomcat-dev@jakarta.apache.org&msgId=2020897).
>> So, whenever a new Tomcat version is released, its jars are published
>> to ibiblio.org manually. There's no process to do it automatically.
>>
>> That's the only way to get around it. Any ASF committer can do it,
>> just create a JIRA item and one will pick it up.
>>
>>> -Dave-
>>
>>
>> Jacek
>>
>>
Re: [LONG] - Tomcat Examples in Geronimo - needed for v1
Posted by Dave Colasurdo <da...@earthlink.net>.
Jeff/Jacek,
Thanks for the info... Anyone have an issue with pursuing this option?
If not I will open the JIRA..
-Dave-
Jacek Laskowski wrote:
> Dave Colasurdo wrote:
>
>> GERONIMO-1087 and GERONIMO-1088 JIRAs were opened to introduce the
>> Tomcat examples into Geronimo. I believe it is important to get these
>> introduced into the distributions (as default samples) for v1.
>>
>> There are a few different ways to approach this:
>>
>> 1) Ask Tomcat to create a war file for servlet-examples and
>> jsp-examples and post it to http://www.ibiblio.org/maven/tomcat/
>> We pick up this dependency during our build and include it in the
>> appropriate distributions.
>
>
> During the first days of the task of Tomcat embedding into Geronimo, I
> had the same concern about Tomcat's jars being available in Maven repo
> (i.e. ibiblio.org). I asked Tomcat developers to upload the jars
> Geronimo uses (c.f.
> http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?listName=tomcat-dev@jakarta.apache.org&msgId=2020897).
> So, whenever a new Tomcat version is released, its jars are published to
> ibiblio.org manually. There's no process to do it automatically.
>
> That's the only way to get around it. Any ASF committer can do it, just
> create a JIRA item and one will pick it up.
>
>> -Dave-
>
>
> Jacek
>
>