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Posted to dev@cayenne.apache.org by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com> on 2011/11/03 13:35:40 UTC
Cayenne marketing (was: Fwd: Second article appeared today)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>
Date: Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: Second article appeared today
To: dev@cayenne.apache.org
On Nov 2, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
>> If there are other slides/articles/blogs around, it makes sense. I
>> have seen sections like this on various other places at the ASF.
>> Personally they give me the feeling the project has a community
>> behind. Esp. when there are slides available which are presented on
>> conferences.
>We are really bad at that. This is a #1 reason Cayenne is not as well-known as it should be. We do have a community of course, just >don't have active promoters unfortunately.
How can Cayenne improve this situation?
I think it is to the benefit of all Cayenne users if there is a bigger
community: more patches, more feedback, maybe more plugins etc.
Usually projects try to utilize Twitter for some news. Then there is
always the chance to blog:
http://blogs.apache.org/
I am willing to help in this area and write blog posts. Either on my
blog (which has up to 5000 unique visitors a month) or on the asf blog
or both. But I need a bit guidances from the active developers, to
spot interesting changes in time and to understand them quickly. A
review of the posts before publishing would also not be so bad :-)
A more concrete proposal:
- utilize Twitter for interesting changes, builds anything which is to
small to blog but shows activity on Cayenne
- utilize Apache Blog for news
In addition I would like to start some kind of "Cayenne series" on my
blog. Lets say 1 medium sized article all two weeks. For this I need
some input about current changes or things of interest. Or even proof
reading :-) I can also agree to co-writers and would accept complete
articles from others.
More ideas welcome, this is just a first shot.
Cheers
Christian
Re: Cayenne marketing (was: Fwd: Second article appeared today)
Posted by Mike Kienenberger <mk...@gmail.com>.
For Apache MyFaces, we created the following for twitter and posted it
to the private list.
username: MyFacesTeam
pw: xxxxxxxxxx
On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Michael Gentry <mg...@masslight.net> wrote:
> Twitter would be OK, but if we are serious about this, should be
> available by non-Twitter, too. Some workplaces (like mine) ban such
> things as Twitter (and Facebook and Flickr and ...).
>
> mrg
>
> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Robert Zeigler
> <ro...@roxanemy.com> wrote:
>> So, tapestry has a twitter feed; I don't recall which address was used to set it up; possibly a novel/dummy address? It's set up with a "committers" list, which seems to work pretty well.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> On Nov 3, 2011, at 11/38:31 AM , Christian Grobmeier wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
>>>> On Nov 3, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> A more concrete proposal:
>>>>> - utilize Twitter for interesting changes, builds anything which is to
>>>>> small to blog but shows activity on Cayenne
>>>>
>>>> I am trying to use my personal Twitter exclusively for Cayenne: http://twitter.com/#!/andrus_a Need to promote it more as well (add it to my email sig or something?). But maybe creating a project-controlled twitter is better on the long run.
>>>
>>>
>>> A discussion recently was on board@
>>>
>>> Bertrand Delacretaz recommended on twitter:
>>> "AFAIK we don't have a foundation-wide policy, what seems important to
>>> me is that any PMC member can get the credentials, in case the current
>>> owner of those goes away.
>>>
>>> It also makes sense IMO to coordinate "important" tweets (whatever
>>> that means) among the PMC members.
>>>
>>> I don't know if it's practical to have the private@ list as the owner,
>>> IIUC it would then get notifications of retweets and such which might
>>> be noisy. If you require whoever owns the account to use their
>>> @apache.org address as the owner's address, worst case we could ask
>>> infra to extract mails sent from twitter to that address for password
>>> recovery, if that person's not available anymore and the PMC needs to
>>> get the credentials.
>>>
>>> Just me personal advice, no official policy here."
>>>
>>>
>>> Shane followed up, recommended to respect the trademarks.
>>> That being said, a password shared between Cayeene-PMC members and the
>>> twitter account "apachecayenne" would make much sense!
>>>
>>>>> I am willing to help in this area and write blog posts. Either on my
>>>>> blog (which has up to 5000 unique visitors a month) or on the asf blog
>>>>> or both. But I need a bit guidances from the active developers, to
>>>>> spot interesting changes in time and to understand them quickly. A
>>>>> review of the posts before publishing would also not be so bad :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> - utilize Apache Blog for news
>>>>>
>>>>> In addition I would like to start some kind of "Cayenne series" on my
>>>>> blog. Lets say 1 medium sized article all two weeks. For this I need
>>>>> some input about current changes or things of interest. Or even proof
>>>>> reading :-) I can also agree to co-writers and would accept complete
>>>>> articles from others.
>>>>
>>>> Awesome! I think we have some interesting things to show right away. E.g. this thing about String IDs discussed in the parallel thread. In combination with map nature of DataObjects it allows to do some cool stuff. We can talk about using String IDs to refer to objects; building persistent "aspects" and attaching lifecycle to them with annotations; what can be done with such aspects; etc. All of this is still rather new and patterns and best practices are still being discovered (e.g. you can't do regular joins across aspect relationships, so how do you build your searches, etc.).
>>>>
>>>> I am in love with this whole aspect stuff, as I am doing lots of commercial CMS programming based on Cayenne and relational DBs. But CMS systems require features more often associated with JCR (Jackrabbit) technology, rather than ORM. The above if done right allows to have the best of both ORM and JCR worlds.
>>>>
>>>> Another area is DI configuration. We have a bunch of extension points now, so how do we take advantage of them to tune an application.
>>>
>>> Oh wow, many ideas - tons of posts! And intersting stuff!!
>>> I am not sure where to start but I am willing to learn. We should make
>>> up a list of interesting topics and then look at it one by one. If I
>>> write them myself, I need a bit help to dig them out.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Christian
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Andrus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://www.grobmeier.de
>>
>>
>
Re: Cayenne marketing (was: Fwd: Second article appeared today)
Posted by Michael Gentry <mg...@masslight.net>.
Twitter would be OK, but if we are serious about this, should be
available by non-Twitter, too. Some workplaces (like mine) ban such
things as Twitter (and Facebook and Flickr and ...).
mrg
On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Robert Zeigler
<ro...@roxanemy.com> wrote:
> So, tapestry has a twitter feed; I don't recall which address was used to set it up; possibly a novel/dummy address? It's set up with a "committers" list, which seems to work pretty well.
>
> Robert
>
> On Nov 3, 2011, at 11/38:31 AM , Christian Grobmeier wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
>>> On Nov 3, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A more concrete proposal:
>>>> - utilize Twitter for interesting changes, builds anything which is to
>>>> small to blog but shows activity on Cayenne
>>>
>>> I am trying to use my personal Twitter exclusively for Cayenne: http://twitter.com/#!/andrus_a Need to promote it more as well (add it to my email sig or something?). But maybe creating a project-controlled twitter is better on the long run.
>>
>>
>> A discussion recently was on board@
>>
>> Bertrand Delacretaz recommended on twitter:
>> "AFAIK we don't have a foundation-wide policy, what seems important to
>> me is that any PMC member can get the credentials, in case the current
>> owner of those goes away.
>>
>> It also makes sense IMO to coordinate "important" tweets (whatever
>> that means) among the PMC members.
>>
>> I don't know if it's practical to have the private@ list as the owner,
>> IIUC it would then get notifications of retweets and such which might
>> be noisy. If you require whoever owns the account to use their
>> @apache.org address as the owner's address, worst case we could ask
>> infra to extract mails sent from twitter to that address for password
>> recovery, if that person's not available anymore and the PMC needs to
>> get the credentials.
>>
>> Just me personal advice, no official policy here."
>>
>>
>> Shane followed up, recommended to respect the trademarks.
>> That being said, a password shared between Cayeene-PMC members and the
>> twitter account "apachecayenne" would make much sense!
>>
>>>> I am willing to help in this area and write blog posts. Either on my
>>>> blog (which has up to 5000 unique visitors a month) or on the asf blog
>>>> or both. But I need a bit guidances from the active developers, to
>>>> spot interesting changes in time and to understand them quickly. A
>>>> review of the posts before publishing would also not be so bad :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>> - utilize Apache Blog for news
>>>>
>>>> In addition I would like to start some kind of "Cayenne series" on my
>>>> blog. Lets say 1 medium sized article all two weeks. For this I need
>>>> some input about current changes or things of interest. Or even proof
>>>> reading :-) I can also agree to co-writers and would accept complete
>>>> articles from others.
>>>
>>> Awesome! I think we have some interesting things to show right away. E.g. this thing about String IDs discussed in the parallel thread. In combination with map nature of DataObjects it allows to do some cool stuff. We can talk about using String IDs to refer to objects; building persistent "aspects" and attaching lifecycle to them with annotations; what can be done with such aspects; etc. All of this is still rather new and patterns and best practices are still being discovered (e.g. you can't do regular joins across aspect relationships, so how do you build your searches, etc.).
>>>
>>> I am in love with this whole aspect stuff, as I am doing lots of commercial CMS programming based on Cayenne and relational DBs. But CMS systems require features more often associated with JCR (Jackrabbit) technology, rather than ORM. The above if done right allows to have the best of both ORM and JCR worlds.
>>>
>>> Another area is DI configuration. We have a bunch of extension points now, so how do we take advantage of them to tune an application.
>>
>> Oh wow, many ideas - tons of posts! And intersting stuff!!
>> I am not sure where to start but I am willing to learn. We should make
>> up a list of interesting topics and then look at it one by one. If I
>> write them myself, I need a bit help to dig them out.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Christian
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Andrus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://www.grobmeier.de
>
>
Re: Cayenne marketing (was: Fwd: Second article appeared today)
Posted by Robert Zeigler <ro...@roxanemy.com>.
So, tapestry has a twitter feed; I don't recall which address was used to set it up; possibly a novel/dummy address? It's set up with a "committers" list, which seems to work pretty well.
Robert
On Nov 3, 2011, at 11/38:31 AM , Christian Grobmeier wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
>> On Nov 3, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
>>>
>>> A more concrete proposal:
>>> - utilize Twitter for interesting changes, builds anything which is to
>>> small to blog but shows activity on Cayenne
>>
>> I am trying to use my personal Twitter exclusively for Cayenne: http://twitter.com/#!/andrus_a Need to promote it more as well (add it to my email sig or something?). But maybe creating a project-controlled twitter is better on the long run.
>
>
> A discussion recently was on board@
>
> Bertrand Delacretaz recommended on twitter:
> "AFAIK we don't have a foundation-wide policy, what seems important to
> me is that any PMC member can get the credentials, in case the current
> owner of those goes away.
>
> It also makes sense IMO to coordinate "important" tweets (whatever
> that means) among the PMC members.
>
> I don't know if it's practical to have the private@ list as the owner,
> IIUC it would then get notifications of retweets and such which might
> be noisy. If you require whoever owns the account to use their
> @apache.org address as the owner's address, worst case we could ask
> infra to extract mails sent from twitter to that address for password
> recovery, if that person's not available anymore and the PMC needs to
> get the credentials.
>
> Just me personal advice, no official policy here."
>
>
> Shane followed up, recommended to respect the trademarks.
> That being said, a password shared between Cayeene-PMC members and the
> twitter account "apachecayenne" would make much sense!
>
>>> I am willing to help in this area and write blog posts. Either on my
>>> blog (which has up to 5000 unique visitors a month) or on the asf blog
>>> or both. But I need a bit guidances from the active developers, to
>>> spot interesting changes in time and to understand them quickly. A
>>> review of the posts before publishing would also not be so bad :-)
>>
>>
>>> - utilize Apache Blog for news
>>>
>>> In addition I would like to start some kind of "Cayenne series" on my
>>> blog. Lets say 1 medium sized article all two weeks. For this I need
>>> some input about current changes or things of interest. Or even proof
>>> reading :-) I can also agree to co-writers and would accept complete
>>> articles from others.
>>
>> Awesome! I think we have some interesting things to show right away. E.g. this thing about String IDs discussed in the parallel thread. In combination with map nature of DataObjects it allows to do some cool stuff. We can talk about using String IDs to refer to objects; building persistent "aspects" and attaching lifecycle to them with annotations; what can be done with such aspects; etc. All of this is still rather new and patterns and best practices are still being discovered (e.g. you can't do regular joins across aspect relationships, so how do you build your searches, etc.).
>>
>> I am in love with this whole aspect stuff, as I am doing lots of commercial CMS programming based on Cayenne and relational DBs. But CMS systems require features more often associated with JCR (Jackrabbit) technology, rather than ORM. The above if done right allows to have the best of both ORM and JCR worlds.
>>
>> Another area is DI configuration. We have a bunch of extension points now, so how do we take advantage of them to tune an application.
>
> Oh wow, many ideas - tons of posts! And intersting stuff!!
> I am not sure where to start but I am willing to learn. We should make
> up a list of interesting topics and then look at it one by one. If I
> write them myself, I need a bit help to dig them out.
>
> Cheers
> Christian
>
>
>>
>> Andrus
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.grobmeier.de
Re: Cayenne marketing (was: Fwd: Second article appeared today)
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
> On Nov 3, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
>>
>> A more concrete proposal:
>> - utilize Twitter for interesting changes, builds anything which is to
>> small to blog but shows activity on Cayenne
>
> I am trying to use my personal Twitter exclusively for Cayenne: http://twitter.com/#!/andrus_a Need to promote it more as well (add it to my email sig or something?). But maybe creating a project-controlled twitter is better on the long run.
A discussion recently was on board@
Bertrand Delacretaz recommended on twitter:
"AFAIK we don't have a foundation-wide policy, what seems important to
me is that any PMC member can get the credentials, in case the current
owner of those goes away.
It also makes sense IMO to coordinate "important" tweets (whatever
that means) among the PMC members.
I don't know if it's practical to have the private@ list as the owner,
IIUC it would then get notifications of retweets and such which might
be noisy. If you require whoever owns the account to use their
@apache.org address as the owner's address, worst case we could ask
infra to extract mails sent from twitter to that address for password
recovery, if that person's not available anymore and the PMC needs to
get the credentials.
Just me personal advice, no official policy here."
Shane followed up, recommended to respect the trademarks.
That being said, a password shared between Cayeene-PMC members and the
twitter account "apachecayenne" would make much sense!
>> I am willing to help in this area and write blog posts. Either on my
>> blog (which has up to 5000 unique visitors a month) or on the asf blog
>> or both. But I need a bit guidances from the active developers, to
>> spot interesting changes in time and to understand them quickly. A
>> review of the posts before publishing would also not be so bad :-)
>
>
>> - utilize Apache Blog for news
>>
>> In addition I would like to start some kind of "Cayenne series" on my
>> blog. Lets say 1 medium sized article all two weeks. For this I need
>> some input about current changes or things of interest. Or even proof
>> reading :-) I can also agree to co-writers and would accept complete
>> articles from others.
>
> Awesome! I think we have some interesting things to show right away. E.g. this thing about String IDs discussed in the parallel thread. In combination with map nature of DataObjects it allows to do some cool stuff. We can talk about using String IDs to refer to objects; building persistent "aspects" and attaching lifecycle to them with annotations; what can be done with such aspects; etc. All of this is still rather new and patterns and best practices are still being discovered (e.g. you can't do regular joins across aspect relationships, so how do you build your searches, etc.).
>
> I am in love with this whole aspect stuff, as I am doing lots of commercial CMS programming based on Cayenne and relational DBs. But CMS systems require features more often associated with JCR (Jackrabbit) technology, rather than ORM. The above if done right allows to have the best of both ORM and JCR worlds.
>
> Another area is DI configuration. We have a bunch of extension points now, so how do we take advantage of them to tune an application.
Oh wow, many ideas - tons of posts! And intersting stuff!!
I am not sure where to start but I am willing to learn. We should make
up a list of interesting topics and then look at it one by one. If I
write them myself, I need a bit help to dig them out.
Cheers
Christian
>
> Andrus
>
>
>
>
--
http://www.grobmeier.de
RE: Cayenne marketing (was: Fwd: Second article appeared today)
Posted by "Durchholz, Joachim" <Jo...@hennig-fahrzeugteile.de>.
> Thanks for your comments. I am not quite sure what to make of
> them all, but perhaps a point of reference which would help us
> understand: what are you comparing Cayenne to? Hibernate?
> Something else? No ORM at all?
I'm being bitten by Hibernate.
> I ask, because promoting Cayenne seems to fall into two categories:
> 1. Cayenne is a more suitable tool for the particular task than other ORMs,
> 2. You'll want to this this ORM thing instead of putting SQL into your code.
>
> They are quite different audiences for any messages we are trying to get out.
Actually, I'm both audiences.
I do have a lot of bulk SQL in my code, and I'd love to get rid of it - mostly for cross-database portability reasons, but also because dealing with the data at both the SQL level and the ORM level has turned out to still be an impedance mismatch.
I doubt that and ORM is good enough at bulk SQL for productin use, though. It would require a lot of database strategy intelligence in the ORM layer; Hibernate's HQL comes close (but fails from lots of deficits in the details, so it's far less useful than it could be).
The difference I meant to highlight is that favorable mention from users is going to be far more convincing than blog posts from devs. When selecting an ORM, I like to see testimonies from three kinds of people:
1) Those who are just beginning to use it. This allows me to judge the height of the entry barrier, and estimate how hard it will be to convince colleagues and superiors to give it a try.
2) Those who are in the process of learning it. What are the barriers that they hit? How much help to they get, how much help did they need? This allows me to give my superior a rough estimate on how long and painful the transition phase will be (whether transitioning from JDBC or Hibernate).
3) Those who are in the maintenance phase. Cayenne is already in regular use for them, so what's their 20/20 hindsight on it? Where are the limits, did they need to push the envelope, how much did the envelope-pushing help? This will allow me to give a rough estimate of long-term benefits.
Devs can't answer any of these questions, not easily anyway.
Interviews might be the way to do.
Regards,
Jo
RE: Cayenne marketing (was: Fwd: Second article appeared today)
Posted by "Durchholz, Joachim" <Jo...@hennig-fahrzeugteile.de>.
Sorry for the late answer, it seems that "marketing" in the subject makes the company mail server refuse to accept the message.
> Btw Jo - if I remember right, you have made a similar choice like
> I did in the past.
Not sure what your choice was.
> Are you willing to share your experience?
I can, but it's going to be sobering: we'll probably stick with Hibernate after all.
See, we were starting with Hibernate, sunk two years of development into it, until we finally realized that it does not deliver on its promises, by design. However, outside factors are going to force us into the J2EE world, where the requests are short and which Hibernate was built for; unless Hibernate lets us down as badly as in the J2SE world, we won't change a running system. The main deterrent is still that exchanging a core component is risky, nevermend its overall quality; essentially, we're preferring the problems that we know over those that we yet have to detect and work around.
> I might think this will make up a good blog post. If you don't run a blog, we can arrange some kind of an interview in my blog.
An interview would be fine, if you still want it.
Regards,
Jo
Re: Cayenne marketing (was: Fwd: Second article appeared today)
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 8:20 AM, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
> No this hasn't been discussed yet. How would that work - does the entire PMC shares a single password, or Twitter supports multiple users per account?
I have heard of other PMCs that they share a single account and the
password via private@ list. I think this would do the trick.
The accounts e-mail address is a bit more of a problem. Some people
don't like private@ as account email, because all the notifications
from twitter go to the ml. On the other hand, PMC can react easily
when using private@.
Btw, on comdev is currently a discussion on "how to get new
contributors" via twitter.
Cheers
Christian
>
> Andrus
>
> On Nov 15, 2011, at 7:06 PM, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
>
>> Just out of curiosity (not reading private) - has a cayenne twitter
>> account been opened? is it discussed in private? Should/can I help
>> with it?
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
>>>> Besides the fact that the attention to Cayenne was attracted by the "favorable mention in online articles" kind of proves the point that marketing matters. If the project doesn't attempt to place itself on anyone's radar, there will be no online articles.
>>>>
>>>> And of course nobody denies the need for improvement of the code and docs, but that sort of goes without saying. While marketing requires us to pause and think of the strategy.
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Actually reading from Cayenne on Twitter from time to time gives the
>>> impression this project is active. Same is true for regular blogposts.
>>> In addition, if I seen 10 posts on Cayenne and have no clue, I might
>>> get interested and read only one of them. Then I might decide to look
>>> at more, if I like it.
>>> Many blogposts also show that there is already community interest.
>>> This is crucial for many people, for example like me. I was kind of
>>> nervous before I decided to prefer Cayenne over Hibernate in my
>>> project, just because it was much more silent than Hibernate. Now I
>>> know better and I am glad, but not everybody has the chance to take
>>> such a "risk" (or want).
>>>
>>> I think good Javadocs are one side of a coin, a vibrant community is
>>> the other side. Both go hand in hand.
>>>
>>> Btw Jo - if I remember right, you have made a similar choice like I
>>> did in the past. Are you willing to share your experience? I might
>>> think this will make up a good blog post. If you don't run a blog, we
>>> can arrange some kind of an interview in my blog.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Christian
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Andrus
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 8, 2011, at 1:03 AM, Aristedes Maniatis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon Nov 7 23:01:18 2011, Durchholz, Joachim wrote:
>>>>>> Twitter and blogging won't help those who already use it, and those who don't use it yet won't want to spend their time reading regular updates. That said, it might be helpful for those who consider using it but haven't found the time or resolve to actually do it; but these will be more interested in what newbie Cayenne users have to say than in what the developers think is the newest and greatest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What's important is to lower the entry barrier.
>>>>>> E.g. make Modeler intuitive to use and cover all aspects that could be reasonably modelled. (My experience, as just one data point: I toyed with it for half an afternoon and found it a bit hard to get a handle on it and on what features it actually supports. Another detail might be that the tool should announce itself with a phrase that allows people to decide what they can and can't expect it to do; for example, that it is not supposed to model everything that their database can, but everything that... well, no idea what exactly its area of expertise should be.)
>>>>>> The documentation is actually great as an overview. It touches everything one would ask when trying to determine what Cayenne can and cannot do. It is frugal with details though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My advice would be to get Cayenne ahead. That's going to gain more followers than trying to do anything marketing-wise - the marketing that led to my current interest in Cayenne wasn't twitter feeds or blog posts, it was favorable mention in online articles.
>>>>>> What's important is what Cayenne can and what it cannot (or will not) do. Example projects would be nice; have a web service and a J2SE application (one of each kind). Have the example projects touch every complication once: long-running transactions, distributed commits, proxy objects, optimistic update conflicts. In the famous words of Linus Torvalds: "Words are cheap. Show me the code." (I have been bitten too many times by believing some project's overhyped self description. I bet a lot of developers out there share the experience, particularly those who are in a position to advocate an architectural switch. Nothing that the developers could write will help overcome that scepticism; only working code will, and it won't convince, at best it will lower the barrier. I, for an example, still haven't committed to Cayenne; the kinds of problems that show up in the mailing list are currently making me a bit more sceptical. I'm simply not prepared to spend several person-months
>>>>> on an experiment that may fail, my time budget does not allow this (unfortunately, I'd love to try Cayenne out).)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Jo
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jo
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your comments. I am not quite sure what to make of them all, but perhaps a point of reference which would help us understand: what are you comparing Cayenne to? Hibernate? Something else? No ORM at all?
>>>>>
>>>>> I ask, because promoting Cayenne seems to fall into two categories: 1. Cayenne is a more suitable tool for the particular task than other ORMs, 2. You'll want to this this ORM thing instead of putting SQL into your code.
>>>>>
>>>>> They are quite different audiences for any messages we are trying to get out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ari
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> -------------------------->
>>>>> Aristedes Maniatis
>>>>> GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C 5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://www.grobmeier.de
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://www.grobmeier.de
>>
>
>
--
http://www.grobmeier.de
Re: Cayenne marketing (was: Fwd: Second article appeared today)
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
No this hasn't been discussed yet. How would that work - does the entire PMC shares a single password, or Twitter supports multiple users per account?
Andrus
On Nov 15, 2011, at 7:06 PM, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
> Just out of curiosity (not reading private) - has a cayenne twitter
> account been opened? is it discussed in private? Should/can I help
> with it?
>
> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
>>> Besides the fact that the attention to Cayenne was attracted by the "favorable mention in online articles" kind of proves the point that marketing matters. If the project doesn't attempt to place itself on anyone's radar, there will be no online articles.
>>>
>>> And of course nobody denies the need for improvement of the code and docs, but that sort of goes without saying. While marketing requires us to pause and think of the strategy.
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Actually reading from Cayenne on Twitter from time to time gives the
>> impression this project is active. Same is true for regular blogposts.
>> In addition, if I seen 10 posts on Cayenne and have no clue, I might
>> get interested and read only one of them. Then I might decide to look
>> at more, if I like it.
>> Many blogposts also show that there is already community interest.
>> This is crucial for many people, for example like me. I was kind of
>> nervous before I decided to prefer Cayenne over Hibernate in my
>> project, just because it was much more silent than Hibernate. Now I
>> know better and I am glad, but not everybody has the chance to take
>> such a "risk" (or want).
>>
>> I think good Javadocs are one side of a coin, a vibrant community is
>> the other side. Both go hand in hand.
>>
>> Btw Jo - if I remember right, you have made a similar choice like I
>> did in the past. Are you willing to share your experience? I might
>> think this will make up a good blog post. If you don't run a blog, we
>> can arrange some kind of an interview in my blog.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Christian
>>
>>>
>>> Andrus
>>>
>>> On Nov 8, 2011, at 1:03 AM, Aristedes Maniatis wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon Nov 7 23:01:18 2011, Durchholz, Joachim wrote:
>>>>> Twitter and blogging won't help those who already use it, and those who don't use it yet won't want to spend their time reading regular updates. That said, it might be helpful for those who consider using it but haven't found the time or resolve to actually do it; but these will be more interested in what newbie Cayenne users have to say than in what the developers think is the newest and greatest.
>>>>>
>>>>> What's important is to lower the entry barrier.
>>>>> E.g. make Modeler intuitive to use and cover all aspects that could be reasonably modelled. (My experience, as just one data point: I toyed with it for half an afternoon and found it a bit hard to get a handle on it and on what features it actually supports. Another detail might be that the tool should announce itself with a phrase that allows people to decide what they can and can't expect it to do; for example, that it is not supposed to model everything that their database can, but everything that... well, no idea what exactly its area of expertise should be.)
>>>>> The documentation is actually great as an overview. It touches everything one would ask when trying to determine what Cayenne can and cannot do. It is frugal with details though.
>>>>>
>>>>> My advice would be to get Cayenne ahead. That's going to gain more followers than trying to do anything marketing-wise - the marketing that led to my current interest in Cayenne wasn't twitter feeds or blog posts, it was favorable mention in online articles.
>>>>> What's important is what Cayenne can and what it cannot (or will not) do. Example projects would be nice; have a web service and a J2SE application (one of each kind). Have the example projects touch every complication once: long-running transactions, distributed commits, proxy objects, optimistic update conflicts. In the famous words of Linus Torvalds: "Words are cheap. Show me the code." (I have been bitten too many times by believing some project's overhyped self description. I bet a lot of developers out there share the experience, particularly those who are in a position to advocate an architectural switch. Nothing that the developers could write will help overcome that scepticism; only working code will, and it won't convince, at best it will lower the barrier. I, for an example, still haven't committed to Cayenne; the kinds of problems that show up in the mailing list are currently making me a bit more sceptical. I'm simply not prepared to spend several person-months
>>>> on an experiment that may fail, my time budget does not allow this (unfortunately, I'd love to try Cayenne out).)
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Jo
>>>>
>>>> Hi Jo
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your comments. I am not quite sure what to make of them all, but perhaps a point of reference which would help us understand: what are you comparing Cayenne to? Hibernate? Something else? No ORM at all?
>>>>
>>>> I ask, because promoting Cayenne seems to fall into two categories: 1. Cayenne is a more suitable tool for the particular task than other ORMs, 2. You'll want to this this ORM thing instead of putting SQL into your code.
>>>>
>>>> They are quite different audiences for any messages we are trying to get out.
>>>>
>>>> Ari
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> -------------------------->
>>>> Aristedes Maniatis
>>>> GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C 5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://www.grobmeier.de
>>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.grobmeier.de
>
Re: Cayenne marketing (was: Fwd: Second article appeared today)
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
Just out of curiosity (not reading private) - has a cayenne twitter
account been opened? is it discussed in private? Should/can I help
with it?
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
>> Besides the fact that the attention to Cayenne was attracted by the "favorable mention in online articles" kind of proves the point that marketing matters. If the project doesn't attempt to place itself on anyone's radar, there will be no online articles.
>>
>> And of course nobody denies the need for improvement of the code and docs, but that sort of goes without saying. While marketing requires us to pause and think of the strategy.
>
> +1
>
> Actually reading from Cayenne on Twitter from time to time gives the
> impression this project is active. Same is true for regular blogposts.
> In addition, if I seen 10 posts on Cayenne and have no clue, I might
> get interested and read only one of them. Then I might decide to look
> at more, if I like it.
> Many blogposts also show that there is already community interest.
> This is crucial for many people, for example like me. I was kind of
> nervous before I decided to prefer Cayenne over Hibernate in my
> project, just because it was much more silent than Hibernate. Now I
> know better and I am glad, but not everybody has the chance to take
> such a "risk" (or want).
>
> I think good Javadocs are one side of a coin, a vibrant community is
> the other side. Both go hand in hand.
>
> Btw Jo - if I remember right, you have made a similar choice like I
> did in the past. Are you willing to share your experience? I might
> think this will make up a good blog post. If you don't run a blog, we
> can arrange some kind of an interview in my blog.
>
> Cheers
> Christian
>
>>
>> Andrus
>>
>> On Nov 8, 2011, at 1:03 AM, Aristedes Maniatis wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon Nov 7 23:01:18 2011, Durchholz, Joachim wrote:
>>>> Twitter and blogging won't help those who already use it, and those who don't use it yet won't want to spend their time reading regular updates. That said, it might be helpful for those who consider using it but haven't found the time or resolve to actually do it; but these will be more interested in what newbie Cayenne users have to say than in what the developers think is the newest and greatest.
>>>>
>>>> What's important is to lower the entry barrier.
>>>> E.g. make Modeler intuitive to use and cover all aspects that could be reasonably modelled. (My experience, as just one data point: I toyed with it for half an afternoon and found it a bit hard to get a handle on it and on what features it actually supports. Another detail might be that the tool should announce itself with a phrase that allows people to decide what they can and can't expect it to do; for example, that it is not supposed to model everything that their database can, but everything that... well, no idea what exactly its area of expertise should be.)
>>>> The documentation is actually great as an overview. It touches everything one would ask when trying to determine what Cayenne can and cannot do. It is frugal with details though.
>>>>
>>>> My advice would be to get Cayenne ahead. That's going to gain more followers than trying to do anything marketing-wise - the marketing that led to my current interest in Cayenne wasn't twitter feeds or blog posts, it was favorable mention in online articles.
>>>> What's important is what Cayenne can and what it cannot (or will not) do. Example projects would be nice; have a web service and a J2SE application (one of each kind). Have the example projects touch every complication once: long-running transactions, distributed commits, proxy objects, optimistic update conflicts. In the famous words of Linus Torvalds: "Words are cheap. Show me the code." (I have been bitten too many times by believing some project's overhyped self description. I bet a lot of developers out there share the experience, particularly those who are in a position to advocate an architectural switch. Nothing that the developers could write will help overcome that scepticism; only working code will, and it won't convince, at best it will lower the barrier. I, for an example, still haven't committed to Cayenne; the kinds of problems that show up in the mailing list are currently making me a bit more sceptical. I'm simply not prepared to spend several person-months
>>> on an experiment that may fail, my time budget does not allow this (unfortunately, I'd love to try Cayenne out).)
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Jo
>>>
>>> Hi Jo
>>>
>>> Thanks for your comments. I am not quite sure what to make of them all, but perhaps a point of reference which would help us understand: what are you comparing Cayenne to? Hibernate? Something else? No ORM at all?
>>>
>>> I ask, because promoting Cayenne seems to fall into two categories: 1. Cayenne is a more suitable tool for the particular task than other ORMs, 2. You'll want to this this ORM thing instead of putting SQL into your code.
>>>
>>> They are quite different audiences for any messages we are trying to get out.
>>>
>>> Ari
>>>
>>> --
>>> -------------------------->
>>> Aristedes Maniatis
>>> GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C 5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.grobmeier.de
>
--
http://www.grobmeier.de
Re: Cayenne marketing (was: Fwd: Second article appeared today)
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
> Besides the fact that the attention to Cayenne was attracted by the "favorable mention in online articles" kind of proves the point that marketing matters. If the project doesn't attempt to place itself on anyone's radar, there will be no online articles.
>
> And of course nobody denies the need for improvement of the code and docs, but that sort of goes without saying. While marketing requires us to pause and think of the strategy.
+1
Actually reading from Cayenne on Twitter from time to time gives the
impression this project is active. Same is true for regular blogposts.
In addition, if I seen 10 posts on Cayenne and have no clue, I might
get interested and read only one of them. Then I might decide to look
at more, if I like it.
Many blogposts also show that there is already community interest.
This is crucial for many people, for example like me. I was kind of
nervous before I decided to prefer Cayenne over Hibernate in my
project, just because it was much more silent than Hibernate. Now I
know better and I am glad, but not everybody has the chance to take
such a "risk" (or want).
I think good Javadocs are one side of a coin, a vibrant community is
the other side. Both go hand in hand.
Btw Jo - if I remember right, you have made a similar choice like I
did in the past. Are you willing to share your experience? I might
think this will make up a good blog post. If you don't run a blog, we
can arrange some kind of an interview in my blog.
Cheers
Christian
>
> Andrus
>
> On Nov 8, 2011, at 1:03 AM, Aristedes Maniatis wrote:
>
>> On Mon Nov 7 23:01:18 2011, Durchholz, Joachim wrote:
>>> Twitter and blogging won't help those who already use it, and those who don't use it yet won't want to spend their time reading regular updates. That said, it might be helpful for those who consider using it but haven't found the time or resolve to actually do it; but these will be more interested in what newbie Cayenne users have to say than in what the developers think is the newest and greatest.
>>>
>>> What's important is to lower the entry barrier.
>>> E.g. make Modeler intuitive to use and cover all aspects that could be reasonably modelled. (My experience, as just one data point: I toyed with it for half an afternoon and found it a bit hard to get a handle on it and on what features it actually supports. Another detail might be that the tool should announce itself with a phrase that allows people to decide what they can and can't expect it to do; for example, that it is not supposed to model everything that their database can, but everything that... well, no idea what exactly its area of expertise should be.)
>>> The documentation is actually great as an overview. It touches everything one would ask when trying to determine what Cayenne can and cannot do. It is frugal with details though.
>>>
>>> My advice would be to get Cayenne ahead. That's going to gain more followers than trying to do anything marketing-wise - the marketing that led to my current interest in Cayenne wasn't twitter feeds or blog posts, it was favorable mention in online articles.
>>> What's important is what Cayenne can and what it cannot (or will not) do. Example projects would be nice; have a web service and a J2SE application (one of each kind). Have the example projects touch every complication once: long-running transactions, distributed commits, proxy objects, optimistic update conflicts. In the famous words of Linus Torvalds: "Words are cheap. Show me the code." (I have been bitten too many times by believing some project's overhyped self description. I bet a lot of developers out there share the experience, particularly those who are in a position to advocate an architectural switch. Nothing that the developers could write will help overcome that scepticism; only working code will, and it won't convince, at best it will lower the barrier. I, for an example, still haven't committed to Cayenne; the kinds of problems that show up in the mailing list are currently making me a bit more sceptical. I'm simply not prepared to spend several person-months
>> on an experiment that may fail, my time budget does not allow this (unfortunately, I'd love to try Cayenne out).)
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Jo
>>
>> Hi Jo
>>
>> Thanks for your comments. I am not quite sure what to make of them all, but perhaps a point of reference which would help us understand: what are you comparing Cayenne to? Hibernate? Something else? No ORM at all?
>>
>> I ask, because promoting Cayenne seems to fall into two categories: 1. Cayenne is a more suitable tool for the particular task than other ORMs, 2. You'll want to this this ORM thing instead of putting SQL into your code.
>>
>> They are quite different audiences for any messages we are trying to get out.
>>
>> Ari
>>
>> --
>> -------------------------->
>> Aristedes Maniatis
>> GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C 5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
>>
>
>
--
http://www.grobmeier.de
Re: Cayenne marketing (was: Fwd: Second article appeared today)
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
Besides the fact that the attention to Cayenne was attracted by the "favorable mention in online articles" kind of proves the point that marketing matters. If the project doesn't attempt to place itself on anyone's radar, there will be no online articles.
And of course nobody denies the need for improvement of the code and docs, but that sort of goes without saying. While marketing requires us to pause and think of the strategy.
Andrus
On Nov 8, 2011, at 1:03 AM, Aristedes Maniatis wrote:
> On Mon Nov 7 23:01:18 2011, Durchholz, Joachim wrote:
>> Twitter and blogging won't help those who already use it, and those who don't use it yet won't want to spend their time reading regular updates. That said, it might be helpful for those who consider using it but haven't found the time or resolve to actually do it; but these will be more interested in what newbie Cayenne users have to say than in what the developers think is the newest and greatest.
>>
>> What's important is to lower the entry barrier.
>> E.g. make Modeler intuitive to use and cover all aspects that could be reasonably modelled. (My experience, as just one data point: I toyed with it for half an afternoon and found it a bit hard to get a handle on it and on what features it actually supports. Another detail might be that the tool should announce itself with a phrase that allows people to decide what they can and can't expect it to do; for example, that it is not supposed to model everything that their database can, but everything that... well, no idea what exactly its area of expertise should be.)
>> The documentation is actually great as an overview. It touches everything one would ask when trying to determine what Cayenne can and cannot do. It is frugal with details though.
>>
>> My advice would be to get Cayenne ahead. That's going to gain more followers than trying to do anything marketing-wise - the marketing that led to my current interest in Cayenne wasn't twitter feeds or blog posts, it was favorable mention in online articles.
>> What's important is what Cayenne can and what it cannot (or will not) do. Example projects would be nice; have a web service and a J2SE application (one of each kind). Have the example projects touch every complication once: long-running transactions, distributed commits, proxy objects, optimistic update conflicts. In the famous words of Linus Torvalds: "Words are cheap. Show me the code." (I have been bitten too many times by believing some project's overhyped self description. I bet a lot of developers out there share the experience, particularly those who are in a position to advocate an architectural switch. Nothing that the developers could write will help overcome that scepticism; only working code will, and it won't convince, at best it will lower the barrier. I, for an example, still haven't committed to Cayenne; the kinds of problems that show up in the mailing list are currently making me a bit more sceptical. I'm simply not prepared to spend several person-months
> on an experiment that may fail, my time budget does not allow this (unfortunately, I'd love to try Cayenne out).)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jo
>
> Hi Jo
>
> Thanks for your comments. I am not quite sure what to make of them all, but perhaps a point of reference which would help us understand: what are you comparing Cayenne to? Hibernate? Something else? No ORM at all?
>
> I ask, because promoting Cayenne seems to fall into two categories: 1. Cayenne is a more suitable tool for the particular task than other ORMs, 2. You'll want to this this ORM thing instead of putting SQL into your code.
>
> They are quite different audiences for any messages we are trying to get out.
>
> Ari
>
> --
> -------------------------->
> Aristedes Maniatis
> GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C 5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
>
Re: Cayenne marketing (was: Fwd: Second article appeared today)
Posted by Aristedes Maniatis <ar...@maniatis.org>.
On Mon Nov 7 23:01:18 2011, Durchholz, Joachim wrote:
> Twitter and blogging won't help those who already use it, and those who don't use it yet won't want to spend their time reading regular updates. That said, it might be helpful for those who consider using it but haven't found the time or resolve to actually do it; but these will be more interested in what newbie Cayenne users have to say than in what the developers think is the newest and greatest.
>
> What's important is to lower the entry barrier.
> E.g. make Modeler intuitive to use and cover all aspects that could be reasonably modelled. (My experience, as just one data point: I toyed with it for half an afternoon and found it a bit hard to get a handle on it and on what features it actually supports. Another detail might be that the tool should announce itself with a phrase that allows people to decide what they can and can't expect it to do; for example, that it is not supposed to model everything that their database can, but everything that... well, no idea what exactly its area of expertise should be.)
> The documentation is actually great as an overview. It touches everything one would ask when trying to determine what Cayenne can and cannot do. It is frugal with details though.
>
> My advice would be to get Cayenne ahead. That's going to gain more followers than trying to do anything marketing-wise - the marketing that led to my current interest in Cayenne wasn't twitter feeds or blog posts, it was favorable mention in online articles.
> What's important is what Cayenne can and what it cannot (or will not) do. Example projects would be nice; have a web service and a J2SE application (one of each kind). Have the example projects touch every complication once: long-running transactions, distributed commits, proxy objects, optimistic update conflicts. In the famous words of Linus Torvalds: "Words are cheap. Show me the code." (I have been bitten too many times by believing some project's overhyped self description. I bet a lot of developers out there share the experience, particularly those who are in a position to advocate an architectural switch. Nothing that the developers could write will help overcome that scepticism; only working code will, and it won't convince, at best it will lower the barrier. I, for an example, still haven't committed to Cayenne; the kinds of problems that show up in the mailing list are currently making me a bit more sceptical. I'm simply not prepared to spend several person-months
on an experiment that may fail, my time budget does not allow this (unfortunately, I'd love to try Cayenne out).)
>
> Regards,
> Jo
Hi Jo
Thanks for your comments. I am not quite sure what to make of them all,
but perhaps a point of reference which would help us understand: what
are you comparing Cayenne to? Hibernate? Something else? No ORM at all?
I ask, because promoting Cayenne seems to fall into two categories: 1.
Cayenne is a more suitable tool for the particular task than other
ORMs, 2. You'll want to this this ORM thing instead of putting SQL into
your code.
They are quite different audiences for any messages we are trying to
get out.
Ari
--
-------------------------->
Aristedes Maniatis
GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C 5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
RE: Cayenne marketing (was: Fwd: Second article appeared today)
Posted by "Durchholz, Joachim" <Jo...@hennig-fahrzeugteile.de>.
Twitter and blogging won't help those who already use it, and those who don't use it yet won't want to spend their time reading regular updates. That said, it might be helpful for those who consider using it but haven't found the time or resolve to actually do it; but these will be more interested in what newbie Cayenne users have to say than in what the developers think is the newest and greatest.
What's important is to lower the entry barrier.
E.g. make Modeler intuitive to use and cover all aspects that could be reasonably modelled. (My experience, as just one data point: I toyed with it for half an afternoon and found it a bit hard to get a handle on it and on what features it actually supports. Another detail might be that the tool should announce itself with a phrase that allows people to decide what they can and can't expect it to do; for example, that it is not supposed to model everything that their database can, but everything that... well, no idea what exactly its area of expertise should be.)
The documentation is actually great as an overview. It touches everything one would ask when trying to determine what Cayenne can and cannot do. It is frugal with details though.
My advice would be to get Cayenne ahead. That's going to gain more followers than trying to do anything marketing-wise - the marketing that led to my current interest in Cayenne wasn't twitter feeds or blog posts, it was favorable mention in online articles.
What's important is what Cayenne can and what it cannot (or will not) do. Example projects would be nice; have a web service and a J2SE application (one of each kind). Have the example projects touch every complication once: long-running transactions, distributed commits, proxy objects, optimistic update conflicts. In the famous words of Linus Torvalds: "Words are cheap. Show me the code." (I have been bitten too many times by believing some project's overhyped self description. I bet a lot of developers out there share the experience, particularly those who are in a position to advocate an architectural switch. Nothing that the developers could write will help overcome that scepticism; only working code will, and it won't convince, at best it will lower the barrier. I, for an example, still haven't committed to Cayenne; the kinds of problems that show up in the mailing list are currently making me a bit more sceptical. I'm simply not prepared to spend several person-months on an experiment that may fail, my time budget does not allow this (unfortunately, I'd love to try Cayenne out).)
Regards,
Jo
Re: Cayenne marketing (was: Fwd: Second article appeared today)
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
On Nov 3, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
>
> A more concrete proposal:
> - utilize Twitter for interesting changes, builds anything which is to
> small to blog but shows activity on Cayenne
I am trying to use my personal Twitter exclusively for Cayenne: http://twitter.com/#!/andrus_a Need to promote it more as well (add it to my email sig or something?). But maybe creating a project-controlled twitter is better on the long run.
> I am willing to help in this area and write blog posts. Either on my
> blog (which has up to 5000 unique visitors a month) or on the asf blog
> or both. But I need a bit guidances from the active developers, to
> spot interesting changes in time and to understand them quickly. A
> review of the posts before publishing would also not be so bad :-)
> - utilize Apache Blog for news
>
> In addition I would like to start some kind of "Cayenne series" on my
> blog. Lets say 1 medium sized article all two weeks. For this I need
> some input about current changes or things of interest. Or even proof
> reading :-) I can also agree to co-writers and would accept complete
> articles from others.
Awesome! I think we have some interesting things to show right away. E.g. this thing about String IDs discussed in the parallel thread. In combination with map nature of DataObjects it allows to do some cool stuff. We can talk about using String IDs to refer to objects; building persistent "aspects" and attaching lifecycle to them with annotations; what can be done with such aspects; etc. All of this is still rather new and patterns and best practices are still being discovered (e.g. you can't do regular joins across aspect relationships, so how do you build your searches, etc.).
I am in love with this whole aspect stuff, as I am doing lots of commercial CMS programming based on Cayenne and relational DBs. But CMS systems require features more often associated with JCR (Jackrabbit) technology, rather than ORM. The above if done right allows to have the best of both ORM and JCR worlds.
Another area is DI configuration. We have a bunch of extension points now, so how do we take advantage of them to tune an application.
Andrus